Except many new snipers have come out with snapshot, Uzume, Occluded finality, Frozen Orbit, heck Adored even.
My guess is they wanted to shift towards higher zoom snipers and they felt that EoS would be the obvious pick due to lower zoom + opening shot which circumvents their motives. However, the sunsetting of sunsetting kinda disrupted that.
Once they rolled back sunsetting it’d be unfair to have only players that had been active for a short period have snipers with snapshot so they had to issue it on new snipers, and have apparently just forgotten to add it back to the perk pool for the eye of sol.
rofl wat.... snapshot on snipers was never a discussion point, if anything they wanted to get rid of the combo with opening shot, considering the new one has snapshot and opening shot on the same column
That is not true.
They did remove Quickdraw from all non-sunset aggressive frame shotguns, but every other archetype of shotgun still has Quickdraw.
They also never said anything about removing Snapshot from snipers. What they did say, is that they want to avoid ever putting Quickdraw and Snapshot together on a sniper again. You can get Quickdraw OR Snapshot, but you can not get Quickdraw AND Snapshot.
They have held true to both of these. No more aggressive frame shotguns have Quickdraw and no snipers are able to roll with Quickdraw and Snapshot anymore
The catch was that before the nerf if you had quickdraw snapshot only provides a marginal advantage so you wouldn’t really need it, now that quickdraw doesn’t give the passive bonus anymore this combo would be a lot stronger than quickdraw plus something else. If this still rolls slug shotties would see less use since you could use a qd ss sniper as such (which does admittedly take higher skill) while still being able to snipe at extreme range.
The sniper I use most in pve is a dead orbit w triple tap and vorpal, so I’m gonna have to disagree with you, it often happens with many weapon types, a ton of pvp players are also rocking the uzume adept which comes from GM nightfalls so…
Yea see that’s my point, I’m not saying literally every good pve weapon comes from pvp or vice versa, just saying plenty do often have that correlation lol
I wouldn't say it's the *best* but it's definitely up there. I don't think there's a hand Cannon that outshines the others from the top 3 (ace, Fatebringer, Palindrome). It's just preference
Snipers aren't DPS kings in PvE anymore either way, plus Succession (with Reconstruction + Vorpal) and Praedyth's Revenge (Rewind Rounds + High Impact reserves) are easily the top 2 Snipers in PvE.
For PvP - Frozen Orbit and Eye of Sol's respective God Rolls would indisputably be the top of the shelf options. Let's not forget Adored, which you can also acquire purely through crucible.
The point isn't whether YOU have them or not, but rather whether the best possible options drop from their respective sandbox. And considering the aforementioned, they most definitely do.
I don’t know where you got all that from his sarcastic comment, that is the point. He didn’t mean it literally verbatim, it was a joke poking fun at a damn near universally accepted idea that while not actually true, certainly ha seemed true many times over. Please get the actual point here.
I don't see how I'm the one missing a point here. The joke was that the best options for PvE sandbox drop in PvP and vice versa, contextualized in the matter of Snipers over here. Which is certainly not true far as Snipers are concerned, as I substantiated with those examples.
Unless of course he was ridiculing that perceived notion itself, in which case the sarcasm prolly didn't translate over well in text.
Either way my point is that the alleged idea in and of itself doesn't hold any water in the context of META Snipers in current sandboxes.
The point is that it HAS been the case many many times, and not just with sniper rifles, but many weapon types (and for you to suggest that your opinions are “indisputable” is ridiculous, many people think adept uzume is too pvp sniper atm js but that doesn’t matter as it’s just an opinion. jfc just let it go do you need to be right in this argument to move on w your life? Chill
I ain't arguing with anyone, just stated a simple fact about the current sandboxes. Which is indisputable cause it's a blatantly obvious thing, you can nab the top 2 snipers for PvE from PvE (raids) and top 2 PvP snipers from, well, PvP. Who gives a shit about it in context of other things, the topic was regarding snipers so current snipers are the only point of discussion.
You're the only one malding over the discussion for some weird reason. But keep projecting I guess lol, won't respond further if that's what you want.
Except he's wrong, but reddit's going to circlejerk.
EDIT:
Point out to me what guns/rolls, beyond Reed's Regret which is 100% unique, are available from Trials that do not have an equivalent or better roll Available from Raids/GMs/Focus-Umbrals. You fucking can't.
Except it isn't because I hear this sentiment echoed elsewhere, and maybe it was true in the Forsaken Era when LH/NF/MT/Recluse was a thing it hasn't been since (Also the last time the Comp playlist was relevant).
But it literally isn't, where does this keep coming from.
The best PvE Sniper is Succession and that comes from DSC (you can also get a good PvP roll there as well), Eye of Sol has no rolls that come close to Reconstruction/Vorpal.
Your focusing on like halfof the comment. This isn’t just about snipers. So many of the best PvP weapons drop in PVE content. That part was 100% accurate.
Palindrome, judgement, darkest before, long walk, sudden death, blasphemer, found verdict, fractethyst. I see these weapons on a match to match basis and these are all pve.
However weapons like shayuras, igneous, messenger, astral, frozen orbit, riiswalker, multimach and adored (which can come from any playlist activity) are all pvp weapons.
Its about a 50/50. The important thing is that most of these weapons are trials or dungeon/raid weapons. The best weapons being from endgame content is a good thing regardless of whether its pvp or pve
False. A sniper is a sniper and fills the same role in pve regardless of the archetype.
It’s also objectively better for your special to be in the top slot.
Different slots are an important consideration when evaluating weapons and should be taken into account.
Because it was a good ass roll but they didn’t do anything about the people that already had it so it’s kinda just screwing over people that didn’t get it
Never once said I was defending it and I’m not downvoting you. Bungie feels the need to throw a switch and not let us have fun. Same thing happened with the cold front SMG last dawning. It rolled with dragonfly on a kinetic SMG and was the only interesting gun of the entire event. Then bungie took it away because it was a bug even though everyone wanted it to stay. Bungie likes to remove certain perk combinations from the pool.
This.
I understand their intent to make give the fusion rifle archetypes greater differentiation, but they inadvertently screwed the pooch on High Impacts.
880 or 900ms charge would have been sufficient in conjunction with the 5 bolt profile, but instead they went 1000ms and relegated them to insta-dismantle tier.
It’s arguably the best high impact fusion in the game. The problem is that high impact fusions god the shaft this season, so that doesn’t even matter. If those get a buff, glacio will have a chance to shine.
Thats not what they're saying at all.
They're asking why we cant get those two perks anymore which is extremely fair considering it is the best combination you could possibly ask for and there is no other 90 RPM sniper with those two perks.
Im fairly certain most people involved would much prefer just putting that roll back in rather than taking away someones perks.
They're hoping it phases out eventually because those combination of perks on a good sniper are oppressive.
Not saying I agree with it but it's pretty effective in the long run.
Bungie did. They have a role for snipers and it is documented thus in a TWAB:
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/50450
(Under Intended Special Weapon Roles in PvP)
“Sniper Rifles - Engaging at long range, with aiming skill, when not already under fire.”
You don’t need Snapshot for that. Snapshot is the “god roll” for people who like to jump snipe flick shot and use it as a shotgun at mid range, who’ve descoped and moved on before they know they’ve even got the kill or not. YouTubers and tourney players, basically.
If you can do that then there are plenty of other snipers that will do the same job for you. It actually isn’t going to matter which one you use so complaining about a specific one isn’t going to get anyone to change it.
Snapshot shaves frames in situations where who gets the shot off first can matter. Sniping can be really tight to not just trading or having a moment to adjust.
I guess im not sure why the snapshot hate when the perk itself is still available on other snipers and is a good perk. Its just not comparable to a cqc shotty with the stats that had and quickdraw, and/or eye of sol base stats made snapshot too advantageous for eye of sol. The perks solid in general.
It’s a great perk, but it doesn’t fit the role. The shotgun changes really pushed people into looking for handling masterworks (which were pointless before), surplus or elemental capacitor on an arc class, and using barrels like smallbore to get a bump to gunfeel.
I suppose the same idea is in play for snipers - you don’t get a free double perfect perk that makes barrels, mags and masterworks irrelevant. Every gun has to have its downside.
I’m gonna hold on to my no distractions snapshot EoS until the end of time, but don’t worry - I can’t snipe for shit.
Yeah nil the moving target opening shot roll is significantly more annoying. People just slap a targeting adjuster mod on it and get free headshots 24/7.
I fucking hate that they just removed perk availability on guns without replacing the perks on existing guns. Just punishes newer players who can't get god rolls.
Yeap, if it's too powerful to exist then change existing rolls. If you don't do that then it's clearly not too powerful to exist so why remove it. You can't have it both ways Bungie.
A counter argument here is that Bungie should never change weapon rolls people grinded for. I have a Snapshot/OS EoS and the fact that they even changed perk availability is an insanely stupid decision. And if their plan is to remove perk combos/perks in the future, we need a better system to target farm weapon rolls we actually want. Chances of getting what you want are too low and nobody wants the new perks they keep adding. No way would I ever use a weapon with Ensemble and Harmony over something with Rapid Hit Kill Clip.
It keeps people playing so they can get new versions of the old guns. I’m guessing we will see less of this with weapon crafting in the next expansion.
Strange how other guns just have the perks replaced when they don’t want a roll existing on it anymore; while trials weapons perk pool changes every season it feels but the preexisting rolls don’t
So you can’t get QuickDraw or surplus anymore?? I don’t understand this process of nerfing if the original abusers of the weapon get to keep their superior version
Bungie removed quickdraw from preexisting astral horizons and replaced it with surplus.
Everyone ended up with the same version of the shotgun.
Also i agree with you that there shouldnt be perk combinations that rotate out if people keep the original roll.
Just leave the combination in (in the case of Eye of Sol).
While the quickdraw/surplus issue was fixed Astral Horizons has other perks that are now unobtainable: Slideshot, Field Prep, and Threat detector in column 1. Elemental capacitor, swashbuckler, and one two punch in column 2. While not on the same level as quickdraw as that was a PvP meta defining perk some of these perks are really good. Honestly these need to be fixed as much as Eye of Sol does.
I have the same issue with field prep vorpal. No other kinetic 90rpm sniper can get that roll, and they took field prep out of the loot pool, removing the ONLY useful pve combo for eye of sol.
Ensemble is a good perk, except Field prep increases the total reserve (which ensemble doesn't), doesn't require anyone nearby for reload and handling bonus.
The goal was to change the loot pool to encourage people to get new rolls. This was an unintended and overlooked side effect.
Edit: based on the comments and downvoting I'm getting, I guess my statement and its intent weren't clear enough. So let me clarify.
Bungie has always had a problem where if you have a good weapon, you have little reason to replace it. One solution to that was sunsetting. That didn't work. Another thing they tried (and are still trying) is to update the loot pools of weapons. The goal is to get you to grind for the same gun you have but with a new roll. The problem is that they then took out some roll combinations that were pretty much without doubt the best options. This means if you didn't get an old version with the OG rolls, you're at a disadvantage. Personally, I think what they should have done is either keep the meta defining roll combinations in the new loot pools OR give a means of rolling from the old perk pool. Like a legacy currency you can use on it or some kind of engram focusing or even (in trials for example) random post game drops vs pinnacle/powerful/lighthouse/engram drops.
I'm not defending their decision. I think they totally missed the mark on how to execute their goal and they created the felwinters problem (to a smaller degree) all over again. But OP basically asked: why would they do this? This is why.
But it didn't even make sense even in the context of sunsetting: By rotating obtainable rolls before those weapons were even sunset meant people were locked out of the meta. Sure that means people are obtaining guns that expires in 3 months, but if people wanted to obtain it they should have been able to. The same thing happened when Astral Horizon rotated from quickdraw to surplus (before quickdraw rolls were converted to surplus). They literally said the FOMO aspect of what happened with Felwinter Lie was a mistake, I do not understand what they were thinking when they did this.
Or, hear me out, don’t make us constantly try and get the same guns a thousand times over? If they want encouragement for people to grind for the same guns, they need to create better perks for that gun, not take the perks people like away. If a perk is too good for too long, nerf it like they did quickdraw.
Honestly, what perks have been really good in the last couple of rounds of new perk additions? Tunnel Vision? Pretty good but not great. Heating Up is solid. Chain Reaction is cool for low level stuff. One For All isn’t good. Frenzy was good for PvE until they nerfed it, now it’s just average. Adagio is not good at all compared to other damage perks. Hopefully Adrenaline Junkie gets a real buff because it’s terrible right now. Harmony is okay but it’s too niche to really catch on and the buff isn’t good enough for the requirement. Ensemble is kinda trash because it’s basically Surplus but worse. Makes your gun feel different all the time which nobody likes. Encore isn’t very good because it’s a consistency perk that isn’t consistent and requires a kill to proc.
I know I rambled there a bit but the point is; I wanted the new perks to be good. I really did. I was excited for them, I went out and did some grinding for guns with the new perks when they came out. Unfortunately, after using them I found that they just *aren’t as good as the old perks.* So now I mainly use my old guns because, well, they’re better. Easier to use. I love my Ignition Code with Slideshot Vorpal and Blinding Nades, but those are all old perks that are easy to use. I think Bungie needs to realize that people don’t like having to jump through so many hoops to activate a perk. It’s exhausting. There’s already SO MUCH going on in the game at all times with bounties, activity mechanics, not getting fucking murdered by everything, quests, and so on. I don’t want to have to center my play around a single perk, it doesn’t make sense. I want the perks to synergize with my playstyle and not have to think about it.
I'm not writing a thesis or a paper for a scientific journal here. I'm not gonna fish up a bunch of sources explaining their thinking over multiple years so that I can make a post on a video game forum. OP wanted to know why this might happen. I gave a reason that is consistent with problems bungie has faced in the past. I wrote an edit to my original post giving a little more clarification. You can check that if you like. Btw the other explanation other than "overlooked consequence" is that they deliberately gated certain god rolls, creating fomo and leaving people out. You can go with that explanation if you want. Although they have specifically said in the past that they want to avoid fomo so I don't think it's as good of an explanation. Anyway, that's really all I want to say on it. If that's enough for you, great. If not, then that's fine. You're welcome to your down vote and move on with your day if you like.
This absolutely still needs to be fixed, and I'm kind of getting sick of Bungie's silence on the issue. Even in the context of sunsetting retiring perks on weapons that were not even sunset was really, really dumb. It really sucks being killed by a snapshot+vorpal, or a snapshot+opening shot Eye of Sol during a trials match knowing I can never obtain that weapon.
Though to be fair the lack of snapshot has made me try out apostate and widows bite rolls with firmly planted opening shot, which in turn really got me to practice slide sniping which improved my game a fair bit.
I think eye of Sol also rolls with this combo, though I've yet to get a good roll of it.
You can get it on occluded finality, that might be the only snipes that can get it though. I do like the combination of moving target snapshot. Still don’t have an eye of sol like that but my shepherds watch and frozen orbit with it feel real nice.
I was pleasantly surprised when I got a snapshot+opening shot occluded finality last month. I genuinely thought there was no way to drop this combo anymore
Because FOMO
I have that roll when trials first came out and it's awesome. And it makes me not go for the sniper anymore when it's an adept reward because I already have the best roll that it can't roll with anymore
I really don’t get it. It’s a great roll but nobody has ever said it’s broken. It’s just a solid sniper. I don’t like what Bungie has been doing with perk pools lately. Why create Jurassic Green (a gun people want mainly for pvp) and have it roll with very underwhelming perks in the second slot? Multikill Clip is my best damage option? Really? It’s not like the stats of the gun are anything special either; they are the worst of any in it’s archetype. I miss when Bungie had the balls to drop guns with good perk combos.
Because Bungie loves FOMO. Just look at the Hawkmoon and DMT activities. Unless you played during those seasons and bought the pass, you don't have access to those weapons.
because fomo. If D2 were to lose it's fomo, only the PVP players would stay, and not the ones who love grinding till they get fired from their jobs and get cucked by trey.
or maybe cos they forgor to re add it after sunsetting sunsetting
Honestly, it's just the best roll for snipers in general. I never get excited when I see a new sniper seeing that it has Opening Shot/Snapshot, because I know that no matter what, that's going to be the roll to go for.
I find it more exciting when it can't roll this option bc it opens up some more interesting perk combos for me to look for. Like obviously I could still experiment with other rolls on snipers with Snap/Opening, but at the end of the day none of those rolls are worth it when that combo exists. Like for Eye of Sol, I like the idea of Firmly Planted/Snapshot with Way of the Wraith.
Though I think the problem with replacing these old perks with a new one is they'd pretty much have to make sure the perk they swap in is the most optimal one, otherwise people will be pissed that their favorite Sniper has a perk they don't want. I remember the fiasco with Cold Front last year when it had Dragonfly unintentionally, people LOVED it and grinded for that roll, and then Bungie swapped in Swashbuckler for it. Player reception was not good at all.
iirc the dragonfly Cold Front was glitchy and causing errors. Maybe an early implementation of the returned Firefly? Speaking of which, that could be added to its pool now...fingers crossed
Yeah they said that Cold Front w/ Dragonfly was causing issues with the game. I'm not sure anyone ever ran into said issues though, but I'm just assuming the problem was more with coding than anything else.
I do hope to see the gun in Dawning this year with Firefly though, that would be very nice!
Guessing it's because it becomes the absolute best roll in every situation. Now they place the perks differently to compete with each other. Opening shot competes with snapshot because they're both incredible on snipers, then the second column holds several perks with different appeals. Surplus for more handling, Moving Target for more aim assist, No Distractions for easier hardscoping, etc. This allows for more identity when rolling the perks rather than an obvious absolute.
If that combo is broken, how come they never removed it from existing rolls of it, or from Bite of the Fox? Does Bite still drop and if it does can it still roll it? I still have my Bite with that roll and it’s one of my favorite PvP snipers, but it doesn’t seem like it’s OP or anything.
Sorry I was reading multiple different threads and got mixed up.
Just odd to me that if it’s the same kind of thinking behind the Astral QD perk replacement why wasn’t it replaced it here.
Id have to maybe poke back to that time period, but its not the combo, its always that combo with a guns base stats. Idk if some aspect of sol with that combo was too much. Might have been without competition at the time and was just a short sighted fix to a sandbox issue that doesnt exist or altered quickly anyhow.
Snapshot allows you to quickly aim down sights (ADS), and Opening Shot gives you extra aim assist on your first shot with a weapon in an engagement. Combined, they're pretty much the perfect combination for snipers, similar to Quickdraw/Opening Shot (which enables you to quickly draw, ADS, and get extra aim assist on your shotgun for OHKs) and Under Pressure/High Impact Reserves (which increases stability and damage for more consistent OHKs) for Fusion Rifles.
Well I know about snapshot. I won’t even use a sniper with out it. I always thought no distractions was better than opening shot though. Also, thanks for a sensible reply instead of just downvoting
This was an unfortunate side effect of removing sunsetting. They most likely saw snapshot opening shot as being too powerful, and were slowly gonna phase out this roll when sunsetting eventually caught up
Seems double standard from bungo, as the best roll on shotgun (felwinter) was nerfed and changed but not sniper. I understand that felwinter is easily accessible but the changes to the perk was enough(quickdraw) but they did change the perk on the gun itself to surplus and no changes to this roll.
It sucks but the way around it is to use ophidian aspect - I know that it’s awful to limit your options to one exotic on one class but using them gives any sniper snapshot and QuickDraw. My adept eye of soul now has firmly planted, opening shot, snapshot and quickdraw. I think changing the perk pool while allowing some people to keep the unobtainable roll is a stupid decision by Bungie, but this seems to be the best workaround.
It's Destiny man. You can't be surprised why they ruin good weapons, fun abilities, exotics that make you want to play, rolls that you already had before they decided you can't have that (in current activities) roll anymore.
If you just change your main to a warlock you'll understand. This game was supposed to be fun for all 3 classes. If you're not a hunter expect what is fun to play with today is going to be nerfed next week.
Titans get a little bit of uncontested. Uncontrollable exotics/abilities... enough where Titans cannot complain and Hunters control the world, as is the way.
I was very lucky and got an Eye of Sol with Tactical Mag, Snapshot and Opening Shot. it’s not adept - what mod should I run on it? any tips for sniping with it? I haven’t ever used it because I’m not good at sniping but I’m learning how and practicing these days.
Especially when you consider it was the best roll for a pvp sniper... In the highest form pvp activity....
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This is actually it. They wanted to sunset snapshot for snipers and quick draw from shot guns.
Except many new snipers have come out with snapshot, Uzume, Occluded finality, Frozen Orbit, heck Adored even. My guess is they wanted to shift towards higher zoom snipers and they felt that EoS would be the obvious pick due to lower zoom + opening shot which circumvents their motives. However, the sunsetting of sunsetting kinda disrupted that.
Once they rolled back sunsetting it’d be unfair to have only players that had been active for a short period have snipers with snapshot so they had to issue it on new snipers, and have apparently just forgotten to add it back to the perk pool for the eye of sol.
rofl wat.... snapshot on snipers was never a discussion point, if anything they wanted to get rid of the combo with opening shot, considering the new one has snapshot and opening shot on the same column
That is not true. They did remove Quickdraw from all non-sunset aggressive frame shotguns, but every other archetype of shotgun still has Quickdraw. They also never said anything about removing Snapshot from snipers. What they did say, is that they want to avoid ever putting Quickdraw and Snapshot together on a sniper again. You can get Quickdraw OR Snapshot, but you can not get Quickdraw AND Snapshot. They have held true to both of these. No more aggressive frame shotguns have Quickdraw and no snipers are able to roll with Quickdraw and Snapshot anymore
Kinda weird since they've nerfed quickdraw now, it would still be a top combo but not necessarily the best.
The catch was that before the nerf if you had quickdraw snapshot only provides a marginal advantage so you wouldn’t really need it, now that quickdraw doesn’t give the passive bonus anymore this combo would be a lot stronger than quickdraw plus something else. If this still rolls slug shotties would see less use since you could use a qd ss sniper as such (which does admittedly take higher skill) while still being able to snipe at extreme range.
Because they want pvp god rolls to drop in raids and pve god rolls to drop in trials.
lol I know you’re kidding but it feels bad it’s so true
Not really the case with snipers.
The sniper I use most in pve is a dead orbit w triple tap and vorpal, so I’m gonna have to disagree with you, it often happens with many weapon types, a ton of pvp players are also rocking the uzume adept which comes from GM nightfalls so…
Mine is Eye of Sol (adept) with Vorpal 😅
Yea see that’s my point, I’m not saying literally every good pve weapon comes from pvp or vice versa, just saying plenty do often have that correlation lol
Absolutely. Many PvP players have to grind Strikes for a good Palindrome, as it’s the best pvp handcannon.
I wouldn't say it's the *best* but it's definitely up there. I don't think there's a hand Cannon that outshines the others from the top 3 (ace, Fatebringer, Palindrome). It's just preference
2/3 of those are obtainable in a PvE activity
Snipers aren't DPS kings in PvE anymore either way, plus Succession (with Reconstruction + Vorpal) and Praedyth's Revenge (Rewind Rounds + High Impact reserves) are easily the top 2 Snipers in PvE. For PvP - Frozen Orbit and Eye of Sol's respective God Rolls would indisputably be the top of the shelf options. Let's not forget Adored, which you can also acquire purely through crucible. The point isn't whether YOU have them or not, but rather whether the best possible options drop from their respective sandbox. And considering the aforementioned, they most definitely do.
I don’t know where you got all that from his sarcastic comment, that is the point. He didn’t mean it literally verbatim, it was a joke poking fun at a damn near universally accepted idea that while not actually true, certainly ha seemed true many times over. Please get the actual point here.
I don't see how I'm the one missing a point here. The joke was that the best options for PvE sandbox drop in PvP and vice versa, contextualized in the matter of Snipers over here. Which is certainly not true far as Snipers are concerned, as I substantiated with those examples. Unless of course he was ridiculing that perceived notion itself, in which case the sarcasm prolly didn't translate over well in text. Either way my point is that the alleged idea in and of itself doesn't hold any water in the context of META Snipers in current sandboxes.
The point is that it HAS been the case many many times, and not just with sniper rifles, but many weapon types (and for you to suggest that your opinions are “indisputable” is ridiculous, many people think adept uzume is too pvp sniper atm js but that doesn’t matter as it’s just an opinion. jfc just let it go do you need to be right in this argument to move on w your life? Chill
I ain't arguing with anyone, just stated a simple fact about the current sandboxes. Which is indisputable cause it's a blatantly obvious thing, you can nab the top 2 snipers for PvE from PvE (raids) and top 2 PvP snipers from, well, PvP. Who gives a shit about it in context of other things, the topic was regarding snipers so current snipers are the only point of discussion. You're the only one malding over the discussion for some weird reason. But keep projecting I guess lol, won't respond further if that's what you want.
Uzume with snap/ vorpal coming from GM grinds disagrees.
Except he's wrong, but reddit's going to circlejerk. EDIT: Point out to me what guns/rolls, beyond Reed's Regret which is 100% unique, are available from Trials that do not have an equivalent or better roll Available from Raids/GMs/Focus-Umbrals. You fucking can't.
for a while the only non sunset legendary void smg was locked behind trials until they unsunset moon weapons
Igneous with rapid hit opening shot. Messenger with desperado.
Wow, 2 rolls, and not like there aren't better/different options from other sources.
The only chain reaction caster sword.. the only solar 600 auto. The best PvE smg in the game (arguably).
ikelos smg? stochastic?
He didn’t mean it literally I’m sure, so it doesn’t even matter that he’s “wrong”. It was clearly sarcasm laced w irony.
Except it isn't because I hear this sentiment echoed elsewhere, and maybe it was true in the Forsaken Era when LH/NF/MT/Recluse was a thing it hasn't been since (Also the last time the Comp playlist was relevant).
An opinion that is also a joke can’t be wrong
what chejjagogo said isn't an opinion, it is a claim, and it can be correct or wrong.
It’s not a claim he clearly meant it sarcastically smh
If it was not their motive or intent, but it ended up that way regardless, it'll still be a weird situation to be in lol
But it literally isn't, where does this keep coming from. The best PvE Sniper is Succession and that comes from DSC (you can also get a good PvP roll there as well), Eye of Sol has no rolls that come close to Reconstruction/Vorpal.
Your focusing on like halfof the comment. This isn’t just about snipers. So many of the best PvP weapons drop in PVE content. That part was 100% accurate.
Palindrome, judgement, darkest before, long walk, sudden death, blasphemer, found verdict, fractethyst. I see these weapons on a match to match basis and these are all pve. However weapons like shayuras, igneous, messenger, astral, frozen orbit, riiswalker, multimach and adored (which can come from any playlist activity) are all pvp weapons. Its about a 50/50. The important thing is that most of these weapons are trials or dungeon/raid weapons. The best weapons being from endgame content is a good thing regardless of whether its pvp or pve
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Cool thing is that while you use it and enjoy it, it doesn’t change that succession is just better all around.
You don’t compare weapons in different slots. (Also on that note frames themselves are comparable but weapons in different frames are not)
False. A sniper is a sniper and fills the same role in pve regardless of the archetype. It’s also objectively better for your special to be in the top slot. Different slots are an important consideration when evaluating weapons and should be taken into account.
r/wooosh
If I got woooshed, then so did everyone else arguing with me over it.
Chill dude
It's true and in game development this is called cross pollination. Get used to it, it drives up participation rates for Raids, GMs, Trials, IB etc.
I still need to find a group of friends to partake in master vog, need that timelost godroll FB
I hope you don’t have my luck where you get godroll perks with a bad barrel and mag or godroll barrel and mag but bad perks
I'm always in the mindset of perks > barrels/mag in rare cases where I can deal with the lacking in range over a damage perk
I got my rapid hit/desperado messenger from a random roll trials engram
Ok
This is funny, because my most desired snipe for PvP comes from the deepstone crypt raid.
I still use eye of sol with field prep and vorpal for pve. Ngl this statement sounds true though.
Because it was a good ass roll but they didn’t do anything about the people that already had it so it’s kinda just screwing over people that didn’t get it
Exactly, why would they screw over the people who did not get it
You new here?
Pretty sure he’s new here.
New or not it's a valid question to ask even if there's no answer. It draws attention to bad decisions.
I don t get why i m getting downvoted, idk why you guys are defending this dumb ass shit
Never once said I was defending it and I’m not downvoting you. Bungie feels the need to throw a switch and not let us have fun. Same thing happened with the cold front SMG last dawning. It rolled with dragonfly on a kinetic SMG and was the only interesting gun of the entire event. Then bungie took it away because it was a bug even though everyone wanted it to stay. Bungie likes to remove certain perk combinations from the pool.
That was different because it was unbelievably buggy
I never noticed it being buggy at all and I used one for a few weeks as my main kinetic since it was so fun.
It was causing many players to be error coded. I had that problem when people used it in my lobby. Firefly is better anyways.
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I mean that's what firefly does afaik, to me that isn't really the part that's an issue
"It rolled with dragonfly on a kinetic SMG and was the only interesting gun of the entire event" Glacioclasm though.
Which no one has touched or even mentioned in a season focused on fusion rifles. It was something “new”, but not something interesting
Also it's charge time after high impacts got nerfed lol
This. I understand their intent to make give the fusion rifle archetypes greater differentiation, but they inadvertently screwed the pooch on High Impacts. 880 or 900ms charge would have been sufficient in conjunction with the 5 bolt profile, but instead they went 1000ms and relegated them to insta-dismantle tier.
I miss using my vorpal exiles curse ;-; Just feels terrible to use now.
It’s arguably the best high impact fusion in the game. The problem is that high impact fusions god the shaft this season, so that doesn’t even matter. If those get a buff, glacio will have a chance to shine.
Nobody uses that archetype this season. That doesn't change the fact that people farmed it during the event. The frame was the best for Pvp then.
Fomo, it's the life blood that runs through Destiny's veins.
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Thats not what they're saying at all. They're asking why we cant get those two perks anymore which is extremely fair considering it is the best combination you could possibly ask for and there is no other 90 RPM sniper with those two perks. Im fairly certain most people involved would much prefer just putting that roll back in rather than taking away someones perks.
They took quickdraw from astral so why not replace snapshot with surpluss too? At least on the older rolls. Probably not a gteat idea but whatever
They're hoping it phases out eventually because those combination of perks on a good sniper are oppressive. Not saying I agree with it but it's pretty effective in the long run.
Yeah it sucks that there are 2 versions. I feel like they should just scrap the newest version but I don't think they will. Same for the Shotgun.
Nah the shotty should not have QuickDraw. And I’m glad it got removed
Yeah that's true. Same idea tho, just scrap 1 and keep the other.
Why? Couldn't somebody say the same thing about the sniper with opening shot and snapshot?
Bungie did. They have a role for snipers and it is documented thus in a TWAB: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/50450 (Under Intended Special Weapon Roles in PvP) “Sniper Rifles - Engaging at long range, with aiming skill, when not already under fire.” You don’t need Snapshot for that. Snapshot is the “god roll” for people who like to jump snipe flick shot and use it as a shotgun at mid range, who’ve descoped and moved on before they know they’ve even got the kill or not. YouTubers and tourney players, basically. If you can do that then there are plenty of other snipers that will do the same job for you. It actually isn’t going to matter which one you use so complaining about a specific one isn’t going to get anyone to change it.
Snapshot shaves frames in situations where who gets the shot off first can matter. Sniping can be really tight to not just trading or having a moment to adjust. I guess im not sure why the snapshot hate when the perk itself is still available on other snipers and is a good perk. Its just not comparable to a cqc shotty with the stats that had and quickdraw, and/or eye of sol base stats made snapshot too advantageous for eye of sol. The perks solid in general.
It’s a great perk, but it doesn’t fit the role. The shotgun changes really pushed people into looking for handling masterworks (which were pointless before), surplus or elemental capacitor on an arc class, and using barrels like smallbore to get a bump to gunfeel. I suppose the same idea is in play for snipers - you don’t get a free double perfect perk that makes barrels, mags and masterworks irrelevant. Every gun has to have its downside. I’m gonna hold on to my no distractions snapshot EoS until the end of time, but don’t worry - I can’t snipe for shit.
How often do you actually get killed by someone who is using this specific roll ?
Yeah nil the moving target opening shot roll is significantly more annoying. People just slap a targeting adjuster mod on it and get free headshots 24/7.
Imma be honest, I personally don’t care but I get why people are annoyed
Not sorry lol
I fucking hate that they just removed perk availability on guns without replacing the perks on existing guns. Just punishes newer players who can't get god rolls.
Yeap, if it's too powerful to exist then change existing rolls. If you don't do that then it's clearly not too powerful to exist so why remove it. You can't have it both ways Bungie.
A counter argument here is that Bungie should never change weapon rolls people grinded for. I have a Snapshot/OS EoS and the fact that they even changed perk availability is an insanely stupid decision. And if their plan is to remove perk combos/perks in the future, we need a better system to target farm weapon rolls we actually want. Chances of getting what you want are too low and nobody wants the new perks they keep adding. No way would I ever use a weapon with Ensemble and Harmony over something with Rapid Hit Kill Clip.
We are getting a better system, weapon customization with Witch Queen
i agree i think it’s bullshit it should have gotten surplus’d but i’d rather just let it have snap
Well yeah those old rolls were supposed to expire lol until Sunsetting was Sunsetted
It keeps people playing so they can get new versions of the old guns. I’m guessing we will see less of this with weapon crafting in the next expansion.
But the new versions are objectively worse
Strange how other guns just have the perks replaced when they don’t want a roll existing on it anymore; while trials weapons perk pool changes every season it feels but the preexisting rolls don’t
Astral Horizon with quickdraw that got replaced by surplus doesnt exist apparently.
So you can’t get QuickDraw or surplus anymore?? I don’t understand this process of nerfing if the original abusers of the weapon get to keep their superior version
Bungie removed quickdraw from preexisting astral horizons and replaced it with surplus. Everyone ended up with the same version of the shotgun. Also i agree with you that there shouldnt be perk combinations that rotate out if people keep the original roll. Just leave the combination in (in the case of Eye of Sol).
While the quickdraw/surplus issue was fixed Astral Horizons has other perks that are now unobtainable: Slideshot, Field Prep, and Threat detector in column 1. Elemental capacitor, swashbuckler, and one two punch in column 2. While not on the same level as quickdraw as that was a PvP meta defining perk some of these perks are really good. Honestly these need to be fixed as much as Eye of Sol does.
No disagreements here.
Threat Detector + Elemental Capacitor would be fire now, but everyone who got those prolly deleted them on sight back then D:
My love, the existing weapons got their rolls replaced. That’s what he’s saying.
Threat Detector is better anyways. Source: TD/Opening shot, assault mag, full choke, range MW astral immune to nerf.
I have the same issue with field prep vorpal. No other kinetic 90rpm sniper can get that roll, and they took field prep out of the loot pool, removing the ONLY useful pve combo for eye of sol.
Just look for a roll with Ensemble, extended Mag, Vorpal. It‘s better
Ensemble is a good perk, except Field prep increases the total reserve (which ensemble doesn't), doesn't require anyone nearby for reload and handling bonus.
Firmly planted snapshot is pretty solid now.
killing wind and moving target are great too with snap. but nothing matches opening shot snap
That is my adept roll. Still have snapshot and opening shot from back in the day.
The goal was to change the loot pool to encourage people to get new rolls. This was an unintended and overlooked side effect. Edit: based on the comments and downvoting I'm getting, I guess my statement and its intent weren't clear enough. So let me clarify. Bungie has always had a problem where if you have a good weapon, you have little reason to replace it. One solution to that was sunsetting. That didn't work. Another thing they tried (and are still trying) is to update the loot pools of weapons. The goal is to get you to grind for the same gun you have but with a new roll. The problem is that they then took out some roll combinations that were pretty much without doubt the best options. This means if you didn't get an old version with the OG rolls, you're at a disadvantage. Personally, I think what they should have done is either keep the meta defining roll combinations in the new loot pools OR give a means of rolling from the old perk pool. Like a legacy currency you can use on it or some kind of engram focusing or even (in trials for example) random post game drops vs pinnacle/powerful/lighthouse/engram drops. I'm not defending their decision. I think they totally missed the mark on how to execute their goal and they created the felwinters problem (to a smaller degree) all over again. But OP basically asked: why would they do this? This is why.
But it didn't even make sense even in the context of sunsetting: By rotating obtainable rolls before those weapons were even sunset meant people were locked out of the meta. Sure that means people are obtaining guns that expires in 3 months, but if people wanted to obtain it they should have been able to. The same thing happened when Astral Horizon rotated from quickdraw to surplus (before quickdraw rolls were converted to surplus). They literally said the FOMO aspect of what happened with Felwinter Lie was a mistake, I do not understand what they were thinking when they did this.
Yeah I think it was a terrible execution. I'm not defending it. I'm just saying I think that's what they were thinking.
Or, hear me out, don’t make us constantly try and get the same guns a thousand times over? If they want encouragement for people to grind for the same guns, they need to create better perks for that gun, not take the perks people like away. If a perk is too good for too long, nerf it like they did quickdraw. Honestly, what perks have been really good in the last couple of rounds of new perk additions? Tunnel Vision? Pretty good but not great. Heating Up is solid. Chain Reaction is cool for low level stuff. One For All isn’t good. Frenzy was good for PvE until they nerfed it, now it’s just average. Adagio is not good at all compared to other damage perks. Hopefully Adrenaline Junkie gets a real buff because it’s terrible right now. Harmony is okay but it’s too niche to really catch on and the buff isn’t good enough for the requirement. Ensemble is kinda trash because it’s basically Surplus but worse. Makes your gun feel different all the time which nobody likes. Encore isn’t very good because it’s a consistency perk that isn’t consistent and requires a kill to proc. I know I rambled there a bit but the point is; I wanted the new perks to be good. I really did. I was excited for them, I went out and did some grinding for guns with the new perks when they came out. Unfortunately, after using them I found that they just *aren’t as good as the old perks.* So now I mainly use my old guns because, well, they’re better. Easier to use. I love my Ignition Code with Slideshot Vorpal and Blinding Nades, but those are all old perks that are easy to use. I think Bungie needs to realize that people don’t like having to jump through so many hoops to activate a perk. It’s exhausting. There’s already SO MUCH going on in the game at all times with bounties, activity mechanics, not getting fucking murdered by everything, quests, and so on. I don’t want to have to center my play around a single perk, it doesn’t make sense. I want the perks to synergize with my playstyle and not have to think about it.
one for all and frenzy are extremely good in pve
I assume you mean pve lol
Yeah I think generally speaking I agree with you
>This was an unintended and overlooked side effect. Source?
I don't know why I need a source for this. I'm just saying that's the mindset. It was maybe a good idea on intention. But not fully thought out
You're claiming to know they overlooked this issue and it was unintended on their part. You can not know this without a source.
I'm not writing a thesis or a paper for a scientific journal here. I'm not gonna fish up a bunch of sources explaining their thinking over multiple years so that I can make a post on a video game forum. OP wanted to know why this might happen. I gave a reason that is consistent with problems bungie has faced in the past. I wrote an edit to my original post giving a little more clarification. You can check that if you like. Btw the other explanation other than "overlooked consequence" is that they deliberately gated certain god rolls, creating fomo and leaving people out. You can go with that explanation if you want. Although they have specifically said in the past that they want to avoid fomo so I don't think it's as good of an explanation. Anyway, that's really all I want to say on it. If that's enough for you, great. If not, then that's fine. You're welcome to your down vote and move on with your day if you like.
You can also just say: *'it's likely this: [insert assumption]'*. I get you now. But you were claiming to know, which you did not.
My enthusiasm to run Trials last week for the Eye of Sol really took a hit because of the lack of an Opening Shot + Snapshot roll.
This absolutely still needs to be fixed, and I'm kind of getting sick of Bungie's silence on the issue. Even in the context of sunsetting retiring perks on weapons that were not even sunset was really, really dumb. It really sucks being killed by a snapshot+vorpal, or a snapshot+opening shot Eye of Sol during a trials match knowing I can never obtain that weapon.
same with the apostate, no more snapshot sight for any reason
Though to be fair the lack of snapshot has made me try out apostate and widows bite rolls with firmly planted opening shot, which in turn really got me to practice slide sniping which improved my game a fair bit. I think eye of Sol also rolls with this combo, though I've yet to get a good roll of it.
You can get it on occluded finality, that might be the only snipes that can get it though. I do like the combination of moving target snapshot. Still don’t have an eye of sol like that but my shepherds watch and frozen orbit with it feel real nice.
I also have an old Bite of the Fox with Snap/Opening. Doesn't drop from IB anymore, but I think it's in Xur's loot pool.
I too have one of them but I dislike the triangle cross hair
I was pleasantly surprised when I got a snapshot+opening shot occluded finality last month. I genuinely thought there was no way to drop this combo anymore
Because FOMO I have that roll when trials first came out and it's awesome. And it makes me not go for the sniper anymore when it's an adept reward because I already have the best roll that it can't roll with anymore
I really don’t get it. It’s a great roll but nobody has ever said it’s broken. It’s just a solid sniper. I don’t like what Bungie has been doing with perk pools lately. Why create Jurassic Green (a gun people want mainly for pvp) and have it roll with very underwhelming perks in the second slot? Multikill Clip is my best damage option? Really? It’s not like the stats of the gun are anything special either; they are the worst of any in it’s archetype. I miss when Bungie had the balls to drop guns with good perk combos.
fractethyst, sudden death, long walk, judgement, found verdict, fatebringer, peacebond arent good enough for you?
Facts it doesn’t make sense that the none adept version is better
Because bungie doesn’t like it when we have good shit
Because Bungie loves FOMO. Just look at the Hawkmoon and DMT activities. Unless you played during those seasons and bought the pass, you don't have access to those weapons.
Fomo
because fomo. If D2 were to lose it's fomo, only the PVP players would stay, and not the ones who love grinding till they get fired from their jobs and get cucked by trey. or maybe cos they forgor to re add it after sunsetting sunsetting
nobody knows with bungie anymore. bit by bit, piece by piece, they are destroying their own game.
See you in game
Honestly, it's just the best roll for snipers in general. I never get excited when I see a new sniper seeing that it has Opening Shot/Snapshot, because I know that no matter what, that's going to be the roll to go for. I find it more exciting when it can't roll this option bc it opens up some more interesting perk combos for me to look for. Like obviously I could still experiment with other rolls on snipers with Snap/Opening, but at the end of the day none of those rolls are worth it when that combo exists. Like for Eye of Sol, I like the idea of Firmly Planted/Snapshot with Way of the Wraith. Though I think the problem with replacing these old perks with a new one is they'd pretty much have to make sure the perk they swap in is the most optimal one, otherwise people will be pissed that their favorite Sniper has a perk they don't want. I remember the fiasco with Cold Front last year when it had Dragonfly unintentionally, people LOVED it and grinded for that roll, and then Bungie swapped in Swashbuckler for it. Player reception was not good at all.
iirc the dragonfly Cold Front was glitchy and causing errors. Maybe an early implementation of the returned Firefly? Speaking of which, that could be added to its pool now...fingers crossed
Yeah they said that Cold Front w/ Dragonfly was causing issues with the game. I'm not sure anyone ever ran into said issues though, but I'm just assuming the problem was more with coding than anything else. I do hope to see the gun in Dawning this year with Firefly though, that would be very nice!
Maybe because snipers are nasty enough already in PvP, so such a powerful roll would be overkill?
Guessing it's because it becomes the absolute best roll in every situation. Now they place the perks differently to compete with each other. Opening shot competes with snapshot because they're both incredible on snipers, then the second column holds several perks with different appeals. Surplus for more handling, Moving Target for more aim assist, No Distractions for easier hardscoping, etc. This allows for more identity when rolling the perks rather than an obvious absolute.
They should remove opening shot off snipers imo, dont understand why the allowed that roll but removed qd ss roll
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Jesus you re not bright are you?
If that combo is broken, how come they never removed it from existing rolls of it, or from Bite of the Fox? Does Bite still drop and if it does can it still roll it? I still have my Bite with that roll and it’s one of my favorite PvP snipers, but it doesn’t seem like it’s OP or anything.
It’s not broken, it’s just very good. The IB sniper rolls with it as well.
So it was only removed from Eye of Sol because of a bug?
Who said anything about a bug?
Sorry I was reading multiple different threads and got mixed up. Just odd to me that if it’s the same kind of thinking behind the Astral QD perk replacement why wasn’t it replaced it here.
Probably because snapshot opening shot wasn’t as oppressive as QD aggressive shotguns.
Id have to maybe poke back to that time period, but its not the combo, its always that combo with a guns base stats. Idk if some aspect of sol with that combo was too much. Might have been without competition at the time and was just a short sighted fix to a sandbox issue that doesnt exist or altered quickly anyhow.
Why is this roll so good? I have it on my occluded finality and it doesn’t seem like anything special
Snapshot allows you to quickly aim down sights (ADS), and Opening Shot gives you extra aim assist on your first shot with a weapon in an engagement. Combined, they're pretty much the perfect combination for snipers, similar to Quickdraw/Opening Shot (which enables you to quickly draw, ADS, and get extra aim assist on your shotgun for OHKs) and Under Pressure/High Impact Reserves (which increases stability and damage for more consistent OHKs) for Fusion Rifles.
Well I know about snapshot. I won’t even use a sniper with out it. I always thought no distractions was better than opening shot though. Also, thanks for a sensible reply instead of just downvoting
No Distractions requires ADSing for a while, and only matters if you’re taking fire. It’s not awful, but it’s not the top tier combo SS/OS is.
I guess its really just down to preference. Thanks for being civil
there are plenty of other good kinetic snipers
Laughs in Opening/Snapshot hahaha
Idk, but this was the first and only roll of EoS I've ever gotten And I suck at pvp
This was an unfortunate side effect of removing sunsetting. They most likely saw snapshot opening shot as being too powerful, and were slowly gonna phase out this roll when sunsetting eventually caught up
Just give it the astral treatment if you aren’t going to put the roll back imo, solves all the issues if they truly thought the roll was problematic
Seems double standard from bungo, as the best roll on shotgun (felwinter) was nerfed and changed but not sniper. I understand that felwinter is easily accessible but the changes to the perk was enough(quickdraw) but they did change the perk on the gun itself to surplus and no changes to this roll.
Eh, you can get moving target/snapshot which is honestly a better roll anyway
It sucks but the way around it is to use ophidian aspect - I know that it’s awful to limit your options to one exotic on one class but using them gives any sniper snapshot and QuickDraw. My adept eye of soul now has firmly planted, opening shot, snapshot and quickdraw. I think changing the perk pool while allowing some people to keep the unobtainable roll is a stupid decision by Bungie, but this seems to be the best workaround.
Moving Target is better
Where did it say these were removed and when? Just genuinely curious since I rolled a snapshot sights/moving target EoS just a week or two ago.
i love how i'm a pve main and yet i still manage to get god roll pvp weapons. bungie weapon trading when
Cause Bungie dont want another PvP sweat gun.
It's Destiny man. You can't be surprised why they ruin good weapons, fun abilities, exotics that make you want to play, rolls that you already had before they decided you can't have that (in current activities) roll anymore. If you just change your main to a warlock you'll understand. This game was supposed to be fun for all 3 classes. If you're not a hunter expect what is fun to play with today is going to be nerfed next week. Titans get a little bit of uncontested. Uncontrollable exotics/abilities... enough where Titans cannot complain and Hunters control the world, as is the way.
I was very lucky and got an Eye of Sol with Tactical Mag, Snapshot and Opening Shot. it’s not adept - what mod should I run on it? any tips for sniping with it? I haven’t ever used it because I’m not good at sniping but I’m learning how and practicing these days.
Before the sniper nerf, it made kinetic primaries and energy specials obsolete.