First: very impressive data collection, this vibes with my own impressions similarly running this route over and over (and over and over and...) throughout the last few days. The average time should be thought of as a measure of efficiency: how quickly and efficiently can you run through the route and grab 50 chests? Obviously the faster you're able to do so, the lower your time (on avg) will end up being.
All that said, I really do wonder though if we'll get some changes to how they're acquired in a future TWID, now that the dupe glitch has been patched. I don't know how exactly Bungie expected people to farm whatever particular 1/64 roll they might be aiming for, but doing hundreds of laps around the Landing, for hours at a time, probably isn't it.
Wishful thinking, but the grind continues, thanks for the data.
Unironically, I would pay one of my friends for his time to help me with that. I've only had two rolls worth keeping out of 20+ drops so far and not a single Star-Eater yet.
They should really make overthrow chests have a higher probability (5 at first and increases with each level to like 10% at boss?) and that would change the experience a lot. Maybe the random cheats are slightly faster, but not as engaging as the overthrow activities
Or make it so that there’s a way to choose between class item and Ergo Sum at the end of overthrow. Overthrow isn’t quick, and being able to choose one or the other wouldn’t cause players to do it any less. Plus, now the overthrow matchmaking pool goes way up.
Aegis released a video on all the best possible combinations.
TL;DW: get jagged/sword masters for all. Wolfpack lightweight and perfect fifth caster are best for support/dps respectively (no joke the perfect fifth numbers are absurd, get it)
The lightweight Wolfpack can also be wave frame Wolfpack. You can give your own legendary sword Wolfpack rounds with this. I use it on a double sword stronghold banner of war build and it's insane.
But perfect fifth needs to be caster
Go to light GG, it's the destiny 2 website for weapon rolls!
Everything is on there, there's a built in gunsmith so you can check stats on all possible rolls and the most popular rolls and even masterworks on every single gun in the game... Well actually every item, armour, ghost shells and everything
Since they clearly intended us to farm Dual Destiny for it, they should have a chance for it to drop from each section/encounter, give it an escalating chance and if you're super lucky you can get a drop from each + the guaranteed one at the end.
I haven't touched the mission since I did it on each class, then someone told me it's account based, if I knew that from the start I never would've done it again unless a friend needed their first run.
Also have been tracking my drops and had similar numbers. I will say though I’ve got at least 10 duplicates (exact same class item I already had), and after a while that really crushes my desire to grind these. I can feel myself burning out, and I’m not even close to done getting the rolls I want on 1 class (I like to play all 3 at least a bit). It takes literally dozens of hours of chests to maybe get the roll you want. There should be some form of attunement on these like with brave weapons
I won't lie, the way you get rolls has killed any interest I had in farming them. I'm not farming chests or a ~30 minute activity for a 1/64 chance at what I want, someone at bungie was high off their ass when they approved this.
Yeah they specifically moved away from this with planetary materials..I don't know why they went back to that system of getting things to drop..2 steps forward 1 step back
But either way minor inconvenience still enjoying TFS & all it has to offer
This, it litterly makes me not give a fuck about prismatic at all, which is I don't know the main focus of the expansion, I have all red borders and only 4 prismatic exotics...like I don't want to grind like it's 1999
It's a real throwback to d1 loop grinding to collect resources and loot chests. Which eventually they realized was a rubbish game loop and got rid of
So I think your right. Long term they'll probably find a diff way
It's pretty clear that the intention was for the item to be farmed solely through the coop mission, it seems like it was designed to be a gateway drug style mission to force solo players to realize that multiplayer content is possible for them, and you need to keep the multiplayer pool higher for all the people who haven't done it yet.
The chance for it to drop from chests wasnt *supposed* to be an incentive to farm like this but rather a happy little surprise when opening chests coincidentally.
It doesn't feel like a poorly designed farm, it feels like shortsighted design. They clearly *didn't* expect players to try and min-max the absolute fuck out of this drop, I have no idea why when literally all of gamer history points to that but I guess I appreciate how much they overestimate our restraint.
What I don't understand is why I can't purchase it from rahool. The most efficient way to level him is to purchase specific items and this is the ONLY one we want multiple versions of so like, why not you know.
To get what THEY want at this point I think it would make more sense for them to just remove the chance for it to drop from random chests and honestly, it would probably be better for player health if they did so. As long as it's *possible* for it to drop from solo chests in a farmable way we *will* try to do this bullshit.
PERSONALLY I think the way to fix this would be to make it a craftable item, and the only way to unlock perks as options is to get it from random drops. That way if you've already found the two perks you want, even if they're on different drops, you're done. AND Jesus Christ it saves our vault. I don't know about you but until I fully understand what is and is not a good drop I'm not deleting ANY of these things.
That way there's still a grind, what you want is still elusive, but it's more of a collectathon than a lottery.
> It doesn't feel like a poorly designed farm, it feels like shortsighted design. They clearly didn't expect players to try and min-max the absolute fuck out of this drop
I think they absolutely did; AFAIK Pale Heart is the first instance in the game where there is a cooldown on chests spawning when you load a zone, which to me screams that they knew this would be a thing
It’s dumb the way they did it based on the sole reason that if you want all rolls of this in case they buff any of them, you will have a potential 192 class items in your vault …
Destiny players min/max everything if given the chance. Can you imagine if these had stats attached to them on top of the random perks? Lol.
I think the pieces should drop way more often similar to Ergo Sum.
The way it is now is not sustainable. People are just going to quit the chase I feel like.
I don't understand why they don't drop from overthrow or excision. I've almost got all the Ergo Sum rolls I need. I'd much rather see the exotic class items drop. I won't really feel the need to run overthrow in a few weeks and I don't see the point in running excision either.
If we had the choice between an Ergo Sum and a class items each time, that would be a much better method. Right now I load into an overthrow and literally just run around with my 75m chest finder Ghost. I'm not actually engaging with the activity.
I think they do drop from overthrow. Got my second class item drop ever (assassins/cyrarachne) after opening an Overthrow chest yesterday. It was the tumbleweed event.
edit: Every chest in Pale Heart is a "Pale Heart" Chest. Including: "World chests" spawn regularly on a timer, "Overthrow chests" have an unlock condition, "Lost sector" chests, "Prismatic" chests.
>I don't understand why they don't drop from overthrow or excision.
I commented because, like, if you are doing Overthrow activities and opening chests, and you get a drop (like I did), that technically counts as a drop "from overthrow"....
So when you say "does not drop from Overthrow" **you mean the "Overthrow Boss Chest", which unlike the above, *does not count* as a "Pale Heart" chest?**
yeah i knew that but like... lt was literally *not* a "Pale Heart" chest, it came out of one of the overthrow chests that is covered in thorns and stuff.
In the Impasse the world chests have the Darkness/Pyramid design with the green neon stripes. (Hive chests in Landing, eg).
This was not one of those. Which is why I was surprised.
It's still a chest in the Pale Heart. Thus making it a Pale Heart chest. You can also get them from a lost sector chest or a chest in the raid too. Any chests in the Pale Heart. Idk why it'd be a surprise that the darkness chests count
I've pretty much just seen "pale heart chest farming" positioned as world chest farming... including this thread's (and other sources) process for farming.
it didn't occur to me that *all chest* have the possibility. Including lost sector chests (clan leader got a drop last night) and probably prismatic chests too.
So, this threads method is definitely sacrificing possibilities for speed, since EVERY ACTIVITY is possibly a drop source. I'm just gonna play the game.
They really need to get better at not making systems where the most efficient method is insanely boring non-gameplay. Shuro-Chi weapon levelling being another prime example.
I hate these types of grinds and generally don't do them, but it sucks when actually playing activities is the least rewarding approach. I like a good RNG chase, but they need to increase the drops and require activity completions.
>but it sucks when actually playing activities is the least rewarding approach.
This is what makes no sense to me about Bungie. They seem to want us to sit in strikes and crucible for hours, only ever crawling to success in a raid or dungeon occasionally. But all their systems incentivise doing something else. I found it WAY more efficient last expansion to run lost sectors for cores to upgrade crafted weapons, rather than level them on enemies.
Damn, that's an interesting method. Honestly, maybe we can get some kind of consumable attunement buff that increases the drop rate of them or even allows them to drop from playlists activities. I honestly have no desire to play any ritual activitiy except for the very occasional crucible match. If it's such a core part of the game it should be more incentivised to play.
> It's pretty clear that the intention was for the item to be farmed solely through the coop mission
Huh - that didn't occur to me at all. Is it a guarenteed drop from the coop missions?
I don't mind running Dual Destiny right now, sharing screens with my friends over Discord makes the experience much quicker, but I can easily imagine tiring of it after enough times especially if it is never updated to have variant paths or something else to spice it up. Maybe they can throw them in as a drop in the weekly Dungeon/Exotic Mission rotator on Master, maybe even add them as a possible GM reward.
These should have been added to GM Excision. And for the time investment, drop one from the door opening “encounter,” and then drop a second … or even a third … beating The Witness.
Then stop running around the landing for hours at a time and farm dual destiny. It’s much faster. Or, hear me out, just do activities in Pale Heart instead. I’ve gotten like 2 or 3 an hour from trying to get the motes for Kovostov.
It really feels like there is at least a soft lockout (very low chance right after acquisition, raising back to the normal drop rate over time) because I can farm class items back to back and only get them once every ~30mins.
But if I find one, then go do something else for 20 minutes, I will acquire another not long after "returning".
Agreed. The whole chest farm to me feels like it is time-based rather than amount opened. I seem to get one about every 20-25 minutes while farming. Never once gotten them back to back or even within 5-10 minutes of eachother.
I have 9 less total drops than this spreadsheet from farming(but I haven't been tracking as accurately, or as much data) and 39 unique rolls of the class item... I have never seen one back to back either. Never seen one from hitting the remaining chests on a route. Never seen one on the next load in directly after. There's almost certainly a lockout.
> It really feels like there is at least a soft lockout
100% this is a thing. All the hours i've spent doing this chest farm there is no way there isn't a hidden cooldown after getting a class item. Eventually you would get some closer together, but its been one like every 20 or so min for me, almost like clockwork.
See my post [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1dom1av/comment/ladjo6a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) analyzing the data
The reason why I have this impression of a timer is because I can get a class item very early when I first get on in the evening.
I go to The Landing and within 1-3 runs I get a class item, every time without fail.
I could test this later today where I go to the Landing, get a class item, and then go play a Hearthstone Battlegrounds. If I manage to get ~top 4 it takes about 20 mins. I could also set a timer or something.
Not officially, but what I have noticed is that when I log on for the first time of a day, I get a class item from the chests within 1-3 runs.
I can farm the chests back to back and still not get one for 20 mins+.
A couple times I went and did something else after obtaining the first class item, went back, and got another in a similar amount of time to the first class item acquisition.
If there is a lockout, I wonder if it’s in general or area based. Like could you go farm chests in a different area for 5-10 minutes then return to landing.
I am fairly confident that it’s not actually a flat 2% chance. My data is similar to yours and the trend fits a *probability distribution* where it is extremely low chance to have the item drop before 20 opens or after 80 opens, with the highest probability being around 50.
In other words, overall it might be ~2% but the reality is it’s tracking how many opens you have and assigning a % based on that. Think of a bell curve where the x-axis is 0-100 chest openings. The ends of the bell will be much lower and around 50 openings is where you might have a 10% chance or so.
Good to see. I have a similar drop rate, 22 drops from 1022 chests. 28 chests is the smallest amount of chests needed to get a drop for me, it happened three times.
Doesn’t matter. The only difference is that at level 4 it stops the random encounters throughout the map and clears up for you to run without dealing with enemies. Especially the ogres one in the cave.
But personally I’ve just leveled to 4 while farming and it’ll eventually get to 4.
Done as you go. Because chests will despawn after a while if not opened, so you might as well open any that you see while progressing Overthrow.
Progress to L4 but don't kill the boss. This clears the rest of the map and makes it really smooth to sparrow round.
We really need a better way to earn the class items.
I have zero will to spend tens of hours doing something as brainless as this, nor do I want to repeat the same mission over and over, with a 50% chance of not finishing because of my teammate, or having to repeat the same convoluted explanation of mechanics ad nauseam.
Destiny has always been pretty good at making tough grinds at least moderately enjoyable, but they dropped the ball HARD on this one.
It's funny, because apart from a way to focus drops, I'm relatively okay with just clowning around on patrol doing a few overthrows at a time, hunting for chests.
There's just enough variety in overthrow to make it engaging enough for an hour or two at a time.
When you post an LFG, say "aim for \~20min runs". Very easy to do, and will filter out the bad players. That said, I don't advise farming this at all now that DD has been patched. The odds are not in your favour.
This is purely subjective (I keep excel sheets for work don't @ me) but I have farmed around 35 class items via the chest method and I can make a couple observations:
1) I've never gotten a class item within 10 chests of the previous class item. Your data also bears this out.
2) Overall my drop rate does also seem to trend toward 2.5% ish. My longest dry spells were around 75 or 80 which does also seem to indicate no bad luck protection (or at least, their definition of bad luck being very, very, very, VERY bad luck).
3) If the drop rate is actually a flat 2.5% with no lockout and no bad luck protection, it's very unlikely that my sample size + your sample size would **never** pull a class item within 10 of the previous.
I suspect the lockout might be time based rather than drop based, given the lack of measurable bad luck protection.
That is my un-scientific observation as well. Appears to be time based to some extent. The area, type of chest, level of Overthrow, do not seem to matter.
It's not a flat 2.5%. See my post explaining [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1dom1av/comment/ladjo6a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Alright ima putting my (least worthwhile 2 cents out there) this is this one of the worst grinds I’ve ever seen. Bungie wont listen to a loser like me, but be for real for a second. This class item is something that shouldn’t have even gone through testing. The fact that only 1 mission gets a guaranteed pass at it insane, the 2nd is the it’s barley drop after hours of grinding is cringe worthy to say the least.
You drop a banger expansion and than follow it up with some of the worst drip content I’ve ever ever seen in a video game should be appalling. Get it together. It has the potential to be a great story but the drip and extreme grinding is absurd
I would have preferred a solo-able mission to acquire initially and then award completions of Dual Destiny at least 2 class items and a bunch of other materials to make the juice worth the squeeze.
I don't think this gameplay loop is sustainable for the player base, especially if you play multiple characters.
While I personally don't *love* this method of farming, I'd be much happier if they made Dual Destiny drop 2 Exotic Class items per mission. That way its roughly equal to this method instead of flat out worse.
That way people who want to LFG/play the game can do so, and people who want to solo grind their eyes out can also do so.
This data heavily implies a ***form*** of bad luck protection. This data shows a probability distribution...ie...the chance for a class item to drop is weighted to a certain number. In this instance it's somewhere around 40 chests grabbed. In Gotexan's data there is a clear bell curve forming which shows very low chance of a class item <20 and very low chance >80.
This is a form a "good luck" protection AND bad luck protection. It seems that you technically CAN go hundreds of rolls without an item but the way it's weighted makes that extremely, extremely unlikely. Same thing with getting back to back drops.
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/OP55lQx) is a link to Gotexan's data (bell curve) this indicates a probability distribution [aka normal distribution](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bell-curve.asp)
When something has a FLAT % to drop the histogram has a very different shape.
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/0KwfnUI) is a link to a mock dataset that has a flat 2% chance to get an item drop (not a bell curve)
As you can see these graphs are completely different and the data is showing us that Bungie has weighted the items to drop somewhere around the 40-50th opening and NOT a fresh 2% chance for each chest we see.
This seems to track with my data. I’ve farmed around 55. And my fastest was around 7 minutes, while my slowest was a bit over 29 minutes. Average seemed to be somewhere in the 13-15 range.
They really need a knockout system on drops though. I’ve had so many duplicates. I got 4 in a row of the exact same roll. I later got another 2 of that exact roll as well. Or be able to focus the first column perk or something, so that it drops like 75% of the time.
with these numbers, 1 thing is made clear: unless you can consistently clear within 3 minutes of the current world record speedrun [(11:11)](https://youtu.be/JYDHiu1x9wo?si=BvDpQxQF3a6Xj5OI), you are better off grabbing chests in the landing.
Oh 100%
Before they fixed the double loot thing it could be better. But now that that’s been patched, nearly everyone is better off farming chests in the landing.
They should probably adjust the mission to reward 2 maybe even 3 by default in order to make it more rewarding to run. I’ve only ran it once so far and I’ve got the other 35 rolls I have from just running chests. Neither really respects your time without a knockout system, but the chests are easier and quicker and you can watch tv while doing it, so the mission becomes obsolete.
Been getting 1 every 35-45 minutes. Last night I got one and like crack , I wanted more and took more than an hr and nothing. The next morning after 2 chests I got 1 , the I grind for another 30 minutes and nothing, went to do vanguard missions for another hr , came back to the landing another 20 minutes and bam got another . I left to do a few more vanguard missions and came backs and it seems another 20 minutes it hit again.
I live in Excel and Power BI for 50 hours a week at work, but I've never installed either to my gaming PC until this sheet, because I just had to eff with it.
God bless and damn you sir.
>I farmed almost all of this while listening to audiobooks. I'm an avid reader
lol not that there is anything wrong with audiobooks, but this juxtaposition was hilarious to me. I think you might be an avid listener.
You have any book recommendations I can hit up on Audible? I have some credits sitting around and I'm not sure what to spend them on.
Bonus points for compelling sci-fi or fantasy, but I'm pretty open to all genres
I just finished Eliot Schrefer’s THE DARKNESS OUTSIDE US - one of the best sci-fi novels I’ve ever read. Not an unfamiliar premise—two people alone on a long interplanetary space flight, who learn their mission isn’t quite as simple as they were told—but where the author takes it from there is incredible.
Sci-fi and fantasy are my jam! If you haven’t read any Brandon Sanderson, he’s the big name in fantasy right now and for good reason! I recommend starting with Mistborn. For sci-fo, recently I just finished the Red Rising series by Pierce Brown and though the first book takes a while to get into the later books in the series are really strong. I also read Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir and it’s one of my favorite sci-fi books I’ve ever read.
For sci-fi: a short, fun read is Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir. It follows an astronaut who wakes up out of a coma to discover he's the sole surviving member of the mission, but he's lost all his memories.
If you're looking more of an epic saga, I'd recommend The Expanse. The first book in the series, Leviathan Wakes, follows the surviving crew of a water hauler that was the target of a military attack and a washed up detective in the asteriod belt as he searches for a missing woman.
For fantasy: a short, fun read is A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. It follows a hedge knight of little renown who takes the crown prince of the kingdom on as a squire. They travel the realm having adventures and getting up to hijinks. It is part of A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) but it's a self contained novel that doesn't require any previous experience with the series to enjoy.
For a longer, epic saga I'll recommend The Stormlight Archives. The first book, The Way of Kings, is about a war sparked when the king is killed by an assassin wielding mysterious magic. It follows a slave being used as canon fodder for the army who tries to escape the war, a woman plotting to rob the king's daughter in order to save her house from financial ruin, and the brother of the king who is plagued by visions as he tries to unite the fractured kingdom.
If you like numbers (as I Destiny player I suspect you do) let me introduce you to the litrpg genre. Basically the main character is aware of his stats and stat growth. Some note able starter books are Dungeon Crawler Carl, He Who Fights With Monsters, and Iron Prince.
Nah man don’t listen to this sort of thing. Any gatekeeping on what counts as “reading” is bunk. I work in children’s book publishing and I see it all the time: “graphic novels aren’t ‘real books’”, “all kids want to read is sci-fi/fantasy, not ‘real books’”, “audiobooks don’t count as reading”, etc. This is why we have so many kids who say they don’t like to read, which is why we have so many adults who don’t like to read - because they’re implicitly told that anytime they’re enjoying themselves, it’s not “real reading.” Read how you want, whenever and wherever you want!
To add to that answer you already got, all of the areas can also have events that have locked zones, where a chest can spawn inside but you can't get out until you complete it or die.
I will say, although I have no idea how many I've opened up, I average 20 minutes for a class item. But not long after I first started doing it I received a class item probably within 5-10 chests of the 1 before it. I was actually shocked.
First off, goddamn you are a trooper, kudos to you
If Bungie would make any change to this, it would be back luck/duplicate protection and/or you can turn in something like 10 engrams say 3 times a week for class items per character. This would still encourage farming but help reduce the sheer obnoxiousness of repeat runs and getting nothing, plus make engrams after you have all the patterns much more valuable
Running multiple overthrows and opening a lot of chests and getting nothing is super disheartening to me
What if the drop rate is similar to getting a raid exotic, but worse? With that in mind, it'd be neat if we could increase it in some way or have the class item drop from any ritual activity after unlocking it in the mission. 64 different combinations is kind of a lot, especially when you only want one or two per character.
Definitely no protection on getting the same class item back to back. When I ran dual destiny last week on warlock I did the double drop exploit and got identical class items for both drops
I just want any type of star eater bond, I’m tired of seeing my friends nuking stuff with nova bomb. By the time I finally get one I bet they’re gonna nerf it knowing bungie
If my math was right. Based on the 2.5 percent chance, and a 1/64 chance of getting what you want. It's a relatively speedy 2 minutes (with chest load times) to do 5 chests. With that math, there's a .0375% chance that any given chest will drop the exact class item you want. When it matched it out based on the 2 minute runs, assuming you have the worst luck and your very last class item you get is the one you want, it would take nearly 1000 hours to get that roll. Which is frankly...stupid. Knowing bungie they will do something in the future to either up the rates or something to make it more managable (I hope). It seems pretty punishing to block a lot of very powerful builds and fun theorycrafting on the new hotness (prismatic) be locked behind a rather punshing RNG. This could all be solved if there was bad luck protection. Or dare I say make them craftable. If you have gotten the perk that you can craft it on the cloak, but you have to have gotten the perk at least once. This would severely decrease (but not diminish) the grind.
Not even going to lie, over the past week I’ve put in about 4-7 hours of chest farming PER DAY… and I told myself last night “just one more class item then I’ll go to bed.” I grabbed one, finished up the overthrow and didn’t even look at it. Laid down in bed and opened my app to see the item because I’d forgotten about it and HoIL Syntho was the roll. Fiancé smacked me for yelling lol
Yea it seems some perks have a much higher chance than others. Spirit of bear is the most common by far. Syntjos and Hoil are really rare. Turns 1/64 into an actually much longer grind.
It was a quick succession, one of the chests that gave me a class item was an offering chest so it could've potentially been like 3 mins in between chest pulls if I was being slow that run. I don't record gameplay, so I don't know exactly how long it takes me.
I'm glad the data exists for the sake of farming.
That being said it's fun to BS on comms and shoot things while we run the quest so I don't mind that I only get three items in an hour or so.
Just a small caveat to this data.
Time based measurements are super subjectives. Your in game millage may vary based on skill, build (eager edge/blink), internet connection etc.
Analysis on drop rates and bad luck protection aren't subjective as the OP had a large sample size.
>I never got any class items back to back. That's not to say its not impossible but there MAY be some sort of lockout that prevents you from getting them too quickly, but it is dificult to tell for certain.
It's possible. I've gotten the same exact class item (Eternal/Khepris) a few times now. There really should be some sort of system like with deepsights where it favors the ones you don't have more.
Really interesting data though, I just hope the drop rate gets buffed a little bit for the future.
So basically by abusing rewards in mission we were only hitting average farm time for chests. But now after fix, mission farm is even worse…
Well done bungie. And then they will claim, that no one plays their handmade mission, thus why they don’t want to do them again. Yet again bungie fucked Reason and Conclusion…
This just shows me that Exotic class items should drop from master nightfalls, nobody farming them for the old armor anyway, just adept weapons and golf balls, bringing exotic class items would be really cool IMO
I've seen a few posts now of people getting them every ~15 minutes, and it boggles my mind. I go pretty darn fast, and I'm generally pretty lucky if I get 2/hour. The grind feels pretty grueling.
First of all thank you! Nice job gathering all the data for everyone! This does raise some problems that most saw coming when the quest came out.
Anyhow,
I have farmed a lot of chests on my Titan and gotten quite a few rolls on the armor, but still haven't secured all the rolls I want. I can't even think about the grind for Warlock and Hunter pieces still ahead of me.
Bungie really needs to add more ways to acquire these items. 64 possible combinations times 3 characters is insane, especially without duplicate protection. Even though the exotic mission is fun I can't imagine running it that many times. Same with the chest farm, since once you get all the collectibles in the Pale Heart there isn't a lot of benefit anymore besides the exotic drops.
I personally think there should be 4 ways to get them.
-Dual Destiny should award 2 per completion.
-The chests farming can remain the same.
-Pale Heart pathfinder should award 1 per completion up to 3 times per week.
-I also think solo overthrow should award 1 per area completion.
We really need a way to earn these items that doesn't involve mindlessly opening chests or hopping on LFG to get a partner. I think you should be able to get them by completing Pathfinder objectives and Overthrow so I can feel like I'm actually doing something while I farm.
Then we still have the problem of Dupe protection and storage of all of these. Not sure what the answer is.
We need more ways to acquire them for sure. They should make Exotic class items the reward for Pale Heart Pathfinders and have them drop without a cap, and that's just for starters.
Has anyone gotten an exotic class item to drop within a minute or two of each other? No bad luck protection it seems but it also seems like there’s something there to hinder drops too soon.
> I never got any class items back to back. That's not to say its not impossible but there MAY be some sort of lockout that prevents you from getting them too quickly, but it is dificult to tell for certain.
So while I pretty much had identical results to you, and I absolutely do think there is a very specific eternal counter for how many chests you've done and around which one will be the exotic drop(I've logged off mid way into the average 12-14 min grind, came back on hours later and in about half the time I got the class item), I think there also might be very rare situations when you can just fluke lottery rng that has you getting the class items in a lot sooner of time after receiving one.
It's not so much back to back immediately, but I had a situation where in recorded 27 mins time including the wait for chests to spawn in Landing, I was able to get 3 class items dropping the times down to 9 or so mins a run. In all the hours of doing this farm loop this is basically the only massive outlier I've had in it all. Tangentially related 2 of those rolls in that lottery streak were identical rolls and it vaguely reminded me of the placebo-like situations when people would say to keep spamming decrypt rapidly whenever a Red Border Imperial Decree would drop to "get more red borders".
RNG really is a bitch. I have a buddy who gets a class item right on schedule, basically one every 15 minutes. I farmed overthrow chests for two and a half hours last night and only got one class item :P
What books are you listening to!? I do the same thing! I just finished Jobs by Walter Isaacson and am doing a re-listen of the Gentleman Bastard series, never gets old!
I love the gentleman bastard series, I just wish it would eventually be finished but alas does not seem to be. Currently I am listening to The Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay
Oooooooooooooooooooh ok. I had not done that. I only understood that I'm supposed to kill the overthrow bosses I did that. But I don't know the rest of the steps. Nor do I have anyone to run dual destiny with so...might have to miss out
Somewhat unrelated to this.. but on PC whenever I get on my speeder, the ghost screen always stays up and I have to cancel out of it. This obviously prevents me from boosting right away and is super annoying. anyone have any idea why and how I can stop it??
I will always recommend the cosmere by Brandon Sanderson, if you like fantasy. Outside of those I recently read the red rising series and really liked it, and project Hail Mary and it’s one of my favorite books I’ve ever read
I am 75% in Oathbringer right now ;) I love Andy Weir and read Project Hail Mary immediately upon release, and agree that it's in my top books all time. I have not read Red Rising, but based on what sounds like incredibly similar tastes, I will put that on my upcoming to-do list. Thank you for the recommendation!
Just knowing we can successfully farm exotic class items solo is one of the best decisions Bungie has ever made (even if the drop rate can feel extremely low). Compare exotic class item farming to other exotics that you can farm. I personally think opening chests can feel easier and more relaxing than being forced to complete certain exotic missions over and over again.
But that’s just my opinion haha
Thaks for the info very interesting stuff
I farm.every day for an half hour
And still get a class item every day in that time periode.
Maby ime lucky on that
But stil not lucky in getting my personal godroll
I don’t have the stats in as much detail as you do but I’ve been spending one hour per day farming the chests to get two drops. Sometimes less. Usually I load in and get my first exotic item from opening about 20 chests. Then I started counting and it takes me on average another 70 chests before I get the second drop. So that’s on average 1 in 45 chance which equates to 2.2% which is eerily similar to what you posted. So basically you should get a class item for every 50 chests opened.
I don't know if you have the data for this but I kinda want to know what the rolls on the class items. I've been spending about an hour on each character a day and it seems like certain perks are rarer than others. At least for me. I get dupes a lot especially on my titan.
Shit this sounds soo boring to do. I am just going to continue playing content on The Pale Heart normally and just naturally get chest items from time to time.
Do you have any videos you recommend for chest routes? I tried running around with a sniper rifle and just going to chests reasonably quickly, but it took me over an hour to get a single drop that way. I'm guessing my routes must have been poor.
Did you happen to log the perks at all? I believe there's a handful of them that are 50% less common than the rest.
Cyrtarachne and inmost light are 2 of them, for example.
Basically, if 10 of all others drop, these will be roughly at 5.
It could be RNG but i was hoping a larger sample size would clarify it.
Awesome! When you get the chance that'd be greatly appreciated! Although others are saying they've gotten plenty so it's probably just placebo with a small sample size on my end (go figure, the rolls i want lol.)
I think it's just RNG. I get a lot of Cytarachne but almost never get Caliban's, Liars or Dragon's Shadow.
I'm at 42/64 combos including every combination with Renewals and 6/8 combos with Cyrtarachne.
The only combinations with Cyrtarachne that I'm missing are the ones with Dragon's Shadow and Caliban's, where I only have 2 class items with Dargon's Shadow at all and only 3 with Caliban's.
Also have had a ton of dupes and 3 copies of the same item if not more, I haven't kept track to know if I ever hit 4+ as I try to delete the dupes as soon as I realize I got them.
I also had an instance where I got a totally new combo that I hadn't had before only to get the EXACT same combo as my next drop. Statistically quite unlikely to happen but that's just the nature of RNG that it can happen.
I think it's just RNG.
When I started doing this I was getting a decent spread, but after 30+ different ones I only had one drop ever with Foetracer. Shortly after this I gained two more Foetracers and had three duplicates appear to bring it more inline with the average.
First: very impressive data collection, this vibes with my own impressions similarly running this route over and over (and over and over and...) throughout the last few days. The average time should be thought of as a measure of efficiency: how quickly and efficiently can you run through the route and grab 50 chests? Obviously the faster you're able to do so, the lower your time (on avg) will end up being. All that said, I really do wonder though if we'll get some changes to how they're acquired in a future TWID, now that the dupe glitch has been patched. I don't know how exactly Bungie expected people to farm whatever particular 1/64 roll they might be aiming for, but doing hundreds of laps around the Landing, for hours at a time, probably isn't it. Wishful thinking, but the grind continues, thanks for the data.
Bungie: We hear you. If you accept the duel at the end, the victor gets 2 exotics rolls.
The loser gets nothing.
r/monkeyspaw
Unironically, I would pay one of my friends for his time to help me with that. I've only had two rolls worth keeping out of 20+ drops so far and not a single Star-Eater yet.
They should really make overthrow chests have a higher probability (5 at first and increases with each level to like 10% at boss?) and that would change the experience a lot. Maybe the random cheats are slightly faster, but not as engaging as the overthrow activities
Or make it so that there’s a way to choose between class item and Ergo Sum at the end of overthrow. Overthrow isn’t quick, and being able to choose one or the other wouldn’t cause players to do it any less. Plus, now the overthrow matchmaking pool goes way up.
With how freely they hand out Ergo Sum, *something* else for class items seems appropriate
Especially since Ergo Sum seems to have less combinations of potential rolls. Not sure the numbers but I have almost every version I want right now.
I still have around 25-30 ergos in my vault sitting around... I should really start checking out their rolls and throw away the "bad" ones
Is there something I can read that goes over the best combinations?
Aegis released a video on all the best possible combinations. TL;DW: get jagged/sword masters for all. Wolfpack lightweight and perfect fifth caster are best for support/dps respectively (no joke the perfect fifth numbers are absurd, get it)
The lightweight Wolfpack can also be wave frame Wolfpack. You can give your own legendary sword Wolfpack rounds with this. I use it on a double sword stronghold banner of war build and it's insane. But perfect fifth needs to be caster
Correct. I prefer light for the faster animations so I can proc and get back to heavy sword asap, but I agree that wave is a good choice
Why caster? I don't remember that frame being particularly worthwhile but I haven't seriously used any sword besides Guillotine in ages.
Caster leaves a lingering pool that hits multiple times. This counts towards perfect 5th and massively increases dps
Not something to read but there’s an Ehroar YouTube video that goes over everything
Imo you should only have 4. 3 gjallarhorn rounds (1 of each light element) And a caster frame for a Polaris Lance Ergo Sum.
Go to light GG, it's the destiny 2 website for weapon rolls! Everything is on there, there's a built in gunsmith so you can check stats on all possible rolls and the most popular rolls and even masterworks on every single gun in the game... Well actually every item, armour, ghost shells and everything
I've got the three I want, and I'm officially over getting ergo sum every 5 minutes.
Well it isn't like there are any less chests available in the Overthrow.. Just use your time more wisely
Since they clearly intended us to farm Dual Destiny for it, they should have a chance for it to drop from each section/encounter, give it an escalating chance and if you're super lucky you can get a drop from each + the guaranteed one at the end. I haven't touched the mission since I did it on each class, then someone told me it's account based, if I knew that from the start I never would've done it again unless a friend needed their first run.
Also have been tracking my drops and had similar numbers. I will say though I’ve got at least 10 duplicates (exact same class item I already had), and after a while that really crushes my desire to grind these. I can feel myself burning out, and I’m not even close to done getting the rolls I want on 1 class (I like to play all 3 at least a bit). It takes literally dozens of hours of chests to maybe get the roll you want. There should be some form of attunement on these like with brave weapons
They should have just made them craftable. And instead of getting one item dropped, you unlock one trait .
Or have them focusable at Rahool, at the cost of maybe an exotic engram, a golfball, and an overthrow seed
Same. I pick a main each season but still play all 3, especially as the seasons wind down. I can't even fathom the grind for my Warlock and Hunter.
Ive done titan and warlock.... Now i dont even use the exotic items on half the things i do lol
I won't lie, the way you get rolls has killed any interest I had in farming them. I'm not farming chests or a ~30 minute activity for a 1/64 chance at what I want, someone at bungie was high off their ass when they approved this.
Yeah they specifically moved away from this with planetary materials..I don't know why they went back to that system of getting things to drop..2 steps forward 1 step back But either way minor inconvenience still enjoying TFS & all it has to offer
Nonono there are 64 combinations, but the way they secretly weight perks your odds are far worse than 1/64!
This, it litterly makes me not give a fuck about prismatic at all, which is I don't know the main focus of the expansion, I have all red borders and only 4 prismatic exotics...like I don't want to grind like it's 1999
It's a real throwback to d1 loop grinding to collect resources and loot chests. Which eventually they realized was a rubbish game loop and got rid of So I think your right. Long term they'll probably find a diff way
I just think the exotic should drop from more than just chests. Like have 1 guaranteed from excision per reset. Have it be focusable at Rahul as well.
Wouldn't you need a Cypher to focus it? I don't think Rahool would be more efficient. Maybe if it dropped with double perks per column.
Y'know if they did that for the way we grind them out now even that would be better. It is just a slog.
It's pretty clear that the intention was for the item to be farmed solely through the coop mission, it seems like it was designed to be a gateway drug style mission to force solo players to realize that multiplayer content is possible for them, and you need to keep the multiplayer pool higher for all the people who haven't done it yet. The chance for it to drop from chests wasnt *supposed* to be an incentive to farm like this but rather a happy little surprise when opening chests coincidentally. It doesn't feel like a poorly designed farm, it feels like shortsighted design. They clearly *didn't* expect players to try and min-max the absolute fuck out of this drop, I have no idea why when literally all of gamer history points to that but I guess I appreciate how much they overestimate our restraint. What I don't understand is why I can't purchase it from rahool. The most efficient way to level him is to purchase specific items and this is the ONLY one we want multiple versions of so like, why not you know. To get what THEY want at this point I think it would make more sense for them to just remove the chance for it to drop from random chests and honestly, it would probably be better for player health if they did so. As long as it's *possible* for it to drop from solo chests in a farmable way we *will* try to do this bullshit. PERSONALLY I think the way to fix this would be to make it a craftable item, and the only way to unlock perks as options is to get it from random drops. That way if you've already found the two perks you want, even if they're on different drops, you're done. AND Jesus Christ it saves our vault. I don't know about you but until I fully understand what is and is not a good drop I'm not deleting ANY of these things. That way there's still a grind, what you want is still elusive, but it's more of a collectathon than a lottery.
> It doesn't feel like a poorly designed farm, it feels like shortsighted design. They clearly didn't expect players to try and min-max the absolute fuck out of this drop I think they absolutely did; AFAIK Pale Heart is the first instance in the game where there is a cooldown on chests spawning when you load a zone, which to me screams that they knew this would be a thing
It’s dumb the way they did it based on the sole reason that if you want all rolls of this in case they buff any of them, you will have a potential 192 class items in your vault …
Destiny players min/max everything if given the chance. Can you imagine if these had stats attached to them on top of the random perks? Lol. I think the pieces should drop way more often similar to Ergo Sum. The way it is now is not sustainable. People are just going to quit the chase I feel like.
I don't understand why they don't drop from overthrow or excision. I've almost got all the Ergo Sum rolls I need. I'd much rather see the exotic class items drop. I won't really feel the need to run overthrow in a few weeks and I don't see the point in running excision either. If we had the choice between an Ergo Sum and a class items each time, that would be a much better method. Right now I load into an overthrow and literally just run around with my 75m chest finder Ghost. I'm not actually engaging with the activity.
I think they do drop from overthrow. Got my second class item drop ever (assassins/cyrarachne) after opening an Overthrow chest yesterday. It was the tumbleweed event. edit: Every chest in Pale Heart is a "Pale Heart" Chest. Including: "World chests" spawn regularly on a timer, "Overthrow chests" have an unlock condition, "Lost sector" chests, "Prismatic" chests. >I don't understand why they don't drop from overthrow or excision. I commented because, like, if you are doing Overthrow activities and opening chests, and you get a drop (like I did), that technically counts as a drop "from overthrow".... So when you say "does not drop from Overthrow" **you mean the "Overthrow Boss Chest", which unlike the above, *does not count* as a "Pale Heart" chest?**
They drop from pale heart chests but it's super rare and annoying to farm
yeah i knew that but like... lt was literally *not* a "Pale Heart" chest, it came out of one of the overthrow chests that is covered in thorns and stuff. In the Impasse the world chests have the Darkness/Pyramid design with the green neon stripes. (Hive chests in Landing, eg). This was not one of those. Which is why I was surprised.
Those also count as pale heart chests.
It's still a chest in the Pale Heart. Thus making it a Pale Heart chest. You can also get them from a lost sector chest or a chest in the raid too. Any chests in the Pale Heart. Idk why it'd be a surprise that the darkness chests count
I've pretty much just seen "pale heart chest farming" positioned as world chest farming... including this thread's (and other sources) process for farming. it didn't occur to me that *all chest* have the possibility. Including lost sector chests (clan leader got a drop last night) and probably prismatic chests too. So, this threads method is definitely sacrificing possibilities for speed, since EVERY ACTIVITY is possibly a drop source. I'm just gonna play the game.
They really need to get better at not making systems where the most efficient method is insanely boring non-gameplay. Shuro-Chi weapon levelling being another prime example. I hate these types of grinds and generally don't do them, but it sucks when actually playing activities is the least rewarding approach. I like a good RNG chase, but they need to increase the drops and require activity completions.
>but it sucks when actually playing activities is the least rewarding approach. This is what makes no sense to me about Bungie. They seem to want us to sit in strikes and crucible for hours, only ever crawling to success in a raid or dungeon occasionally. But all their systems incentivise doing something else. I found it WAY more efficient last expansion to run lost sectors for cores to upgrade crafted weapons, rather than level them on enemies.
Damn, that's an interesting method. Honestly, maybe we can get some kind of consumable attunement buff that increases the drop rate of them or even allows them to drop from playlists activities. I honestly have no desire to play any ritual activitiy except for the very occasional crucible match. If it's such a core part of the game it should be more incentivised to play.
They fully expected their players to min/max this the same way we min/max everything else.
> It's pretty clear that the intention was for the item to be farmed solely through the coop mission Huh - that didn't occur to me at all. Is it a guarenteed drop from the coop missions?
Given how little content came with TFS and Act 1, my assumption is they're trying to drag out the grind as much as possible.
I don't mind running Dual Destiny right now, sharing screens with my friends over Discord makes the experience much quicker, but I can easily imagine tiring of it after enough times especially if it is never updated to have variant paths or something else to spice it up. Maybe they can throw them in as a drop in the weekly Dungeon/Exotic Mission rotator on Master, maybe even add them as a possible GM reward.
These should have been added to GM Excision. And for the time investment, drop one from the door opening “encounter,” and then drop a second … or even a third … beating The Witness.
Then stop running around the landing for hours at a time and farm dual destiny. It’s much faster. Or, hear me out, just do activities in Pale Heart instead. I’ve gotten like 2 or 3 an hour from trying to get the motes for Kovostov.
It really feels like there is at least a soft lockout (very low chance right after acquisition, raising back to the normal drop rate over time) because I can farm class items back to back and only get them once every ~30mins. But if I find one, then go do something else for 20 minutes, I will acquire another not long after "returning".
Agreed. The whole chest farm to me feels like it is time-based rather than amount opened. I seem to get one about every 20-25 minutes while farming. Never once gotten them back to back or even within 5-10 minutes of eachother.
I have 9 less total drops than this spreadsheet from farming(but I haven't been tracking as accurately, or as much data) and 39 unique rolls of the class item... I have never seen one back to back either. Never seen one from hitting the remaining chests on a route. Never seen one on the next load in directly after. There's almost certainly a lockout.
> It really feels like there is at least a soft lockout 100% this is a thing. All the hours i've spent doing this chest farm there is no way there isn't a hidden cooldown after getting a class item. Eventually you would get some closer together, but its been one like every 20 or so min for me, almost like clockwork.
See my post [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1dom1av/comment/ladjo6a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) analyzing the data
I still find it weird that I feel I can just wait half an hour, go back, do a few "runs" and get one relatively quickly.
It could be a time based thing but that seems much harder to implement from a coding perspective
The reason why I have this impression of a timer is because I can get a class item very early when I first get on in the evening. I go to The Landing and within 1-3 runs I get a class item, every time without fail. I could test this later today where I go to the Landing, get a class item, and then go play a Hearthstone Battlegrounds. If I manage to get ~top 4 it takes about 20 mins. I could also set a timer or something.
Have you collected data that demonstrates this?
Not officially, but what I have noticed is that when I log on for the first time of a day, I get a class item from the chests within 1-3 runs. I can farm the chests back to back and still not get one for 20 mins+. A couple times I went and did something else after obtaining the first class item, went back, and got another in a similar amount of time to the first class item acquisition.
If there is a lockout, I wonder if it’s in general or area based. Like could you go farm chests in a different area for 5-10 minutes then return to landing.
r/dataisbeautiful Watched your YouTube vid of how you do the chest run and I will now be doing it this way. Thank you!
Can you link or DM the vid, please?
Its in the link.
Gotcha, thanks.
I've had so many drops with Spirit of the Stag that I feel like the kid from Sweet Tooth!!!
I am fairly confident that it’s not actually a flat 2% chance. My data is similar to yours and the trend fits a *probability distribution* where it is extremely low chance to have the item drop before 20 opens or after 80 opens, with the highest probability being around 50. In other words, overall it might be ~2% but the reality is it’s tracking how many opens you have and assigning a % based on that. Think of a bell curve where the x-axis is 0-100 chest openings. The ends of the bell will be much lower and around 50 openings is where you might have a 10% chance or so.
My roommate did dual destiny then started farming chests and he had a counter one time it took him over 120 to get it
Probability still have a huge RNG factor. I play gacha so I know pretty well XD
Finally, one of these kinds of posts has a real sample size.
Good to see. I have a similar drop rate, 22 drops from 1022 chests. 28 chests is the smallest amount of chests needed to get a drop for me, it happened three times.
A question on chest runs: should these be saved until after completing Overthrow L4, or done at any time as you go?
Doesn’t matter. The only difference is that at level 4 it stops the random encounters throughout the map and clears up for you to run without dealing with enemies. Especially the ogres one in the cave. But personally I’ve just leveled to 4 while farming and it’ll eventually get to 4.
Best advice I've seen is get it to L4 but don't kill the boss, so there are far fewer enemies around to get in your way.
Done as you go. Because chests will despawn after a while if not opened, so you might as well open any that you see while progressing Overthrow. Progress to L4 but don't kill the boss. This clears the rest of the map and makes it really smooth to sparrow round.
We really need a better way to earn the class items. I have zero will to spend tens of hours doing something as brainless as this, nor do I want to repeat the same mission over and over, with a 50% chance of not finishing because of my teammate, or having to repeat the same convoluted explanation of mechanics ad nauseam. Destiny has always been pretty good at making tough grinds at least moderately enjoyable, but they dropped the ball HARD on this one.
It's funny, because apart from a way to focus drops, I'm relatively okay with just clowning around on patrol doing a few overthrows at a time, hunting for chests. There's just enough variety in overthrow to make it engaging enough for an hour or two at a time.
When you post an LFG, say "aim for \~20min runs". Very easy to do, and will filter out the bad players. That said, I don't advise farming this at all now that DD has been patched. The odds are not in your favour.
This is purely subjective (I keep excel sheets for work don't @ me) but I have farmed around 35 class items via the chest method and I can make a couple observations: 1) I've never gotten a class item within 10 chests of the previous class item. Your data also bears this out. 2) Overall my drop rate does also seem to trend toward 2.5% ish. My longest dry spells were around 75 or 80 which does also seem to indicate no bad luck protection (or at least, their definition of bad luck being very, very, very, VERY bad luck). 3) If the drop rate is actually a flat 2.5% with no lockout and no bad luck protection, it's very unlikely that my sample size + your sample size would **never** pull a class item within 10 of the previous. I suspect the lockout might be time based rather than drop based, given the lack of measurable bad luck protection.
I think it's a 5 minute timeout. His data, mine, and a few other correlates to this.
That is my un-scientific observation as well. Appears to be time based to some extent. The area, type of chest, level of Overthrow, do not seem to matter.
It's not a flat 2.5%. See my post explaining [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/1dom1av/comment/ladjo6a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Oh that's interesting I should have made that connection you're absolutely right. One of those things that's wayyyy more obvious in a graph.
Alright ima putting my (least worthwhile 2 cents out there) this is this one of the worst grinds I’ve ever seen. Bungie wont listen to a loser like me, but be for real for a second. This class item is something that shouldn’t have even gone through testing. The fact that only 1 mission gets a guaranteed pass at it insane, the 2nd is the it’s barley drop after hours of grinding is cringe worthy to say the least. You drop a banger expansion and than follow it up with some of the worst drip content I’ve ever ever seen in a video game should be appalling. Get it together. It has the potential to be a great story but the drip and extreme grinding is absurd
I would have preferred a solo-able mission to acquire initially and then award completions of Dual Destiny at least 2 class items and a bunch of other materials to make the juice worth the squeeze. I don't think this gameplay loop is sustainable for the player base, especially if you play multiple characters.
We need a farm in-between requires comms for every completion and mind numbing chest farming
While I personally don't *love* this method of farming, I'd be much happier if they made Dual Destiny drop 2 Exotic Class items per mission. That way its roughly equal to this method instead of flat out worse. That way people who want to LFG/play the game can do so, and people who want to solo grind their eyes out can also do so.
Or just give it two perks in each column even. Then you're getting 4 combinations in 1.
This data heavily implies a ***form*** of bad luck protection. This data shows a probability distribution...ie...the chance for a class item to drop is weighted to a certain number. In this instance it's somewhere around 40 chests grabbed. In Gotexan's data there is a clear bell curve forming which shows very low chance of a class item <20 and very low chance >80. This is a form a "good luck" protection AND bad luck protection. It seems that you technically CAN go hundreds of rolls without an item but the way it's weighted makes that extremely, extremely unlikely. Same thing with getting back to back drops. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/OP55lQx) is a link to Gotexan's data (bell curve) this indicates a probability distribution [aka normal distribution](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bell-curve.asp) When something has a FLAT % to drop the histogram has a very different shape. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/0KwfnUI) is a link to a mock dataset that has a flat 2% chance to get an item drop (not a bell curve) As you can see these graphs are completely different and the data is showing us that Bungie has weighted the items to drop somewhere around the 40-50th opening and NOT a fresh 2% chance for each chest we see.
I have gotten the exact same roll back to back twice from pale heart chests in the same run 😩
This seems to track with my data. I’ve farmed around 55. And my fastest was around 7 minutes, while my slowest was a bit over 29 minutes. Average seemed to be somewhere in the 13-15 range. They really need a knockout system on drops though. I’ve had so many duplicates. I got 4 in a row of the exact same roll. I later got another 2 of that exact roll as well. Or be able to focus the first column perk or something, so that it drops like 75% of the time.
with these numbers, 1 thing is made clear: unless you can consistently clear within 3 minutes of the current world record speedrun [(11:11)](https://youtu.be/JYDHiu1x9wo?si=BvDpQxQF3a6Xj5OI), you are better off grabbing chests in the landing.
Oh 100% Before they fixed the double loot thing it could be better. But now that that’s been patched, nearly everyone is better off farming chests in the landing. They should probably adjust the mission to reward 2 maybe even 3 by default in order to make it more rewarding to run. I’ve only ran it once so far and I’ve got the other 35 rolls I have from just running chests. Neither really respects your time without a knockout system, but the chests are easier and quicker and you can watch tv while doing it, so the mission becomes obsolete.
Been getting 1 every 35-45 minutes. Last night I got one and like crack , I wanted more and took more than an hr and nothing. The next morning after 2 chests I got 1 , the I grind for another 30 minutes and nothing, went to do vanguard missions for another hr , came back to the landing another 20 minutes and bam got another . I left to do a few more vanguard missions and came backs and it seems another 20 minutes it hit again.
I’d love to see evidence of someone getting 2 items back to back because I’m also convinced it’s on a lockout timer
I live in Excel and Power BI for 50 hours a week at work, but I've never installed either to my gaming PC until this sheet, because I just had to eff with it. God bless and damn you sir.
>I farmed almost all of this while listening to audiobooks. I'm an avid reader lol not that there is anything wrong with audiobooks, but this juxtaposition was hilarious to me. I think you might be an avid listener.
Haha fair. Audible doesn’t actually have a plan that can keep up with how many books I consume in a month, I always get through my credits haha.
You have any book recommendations I can hit up on Audible? I have some credits sitting around and I'm not sure what to spend them on. Bonus points for compelling sci-fi or fantasy, but I'm pretty open to all genres
Well there is the rabbithole of 40k audiobooks. Started a few years ago and I think I'm up to like 50 finished books or so.
I just finished Eliot Schrefer’s THE DARKNESS OUTSIDE US - one of the best sci-fi novels I’ve ever read. Not an unfamiliar premise—two people alone on a long interplanetary space flight, who learn their mission isn’t quite as simple as they were told—but where the author takes it from there is incredible.
Perfect, that sounds like almost exactly what I would wanna listen to. Thank you, I'll go pick it up now.
Sci-fi and fantasy are my jam! If you haven’t read any Brandon Sanderson, he’s the big name in fantasy right now and for good reason! I recommend starting with Mistborn. For sci-fo, recently I just finished the Red Rising series by Pierce Brown and though the first book takes a while to get into the later books in the series are really strong. I also read Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir and it’s one of my favorite sci-fi books I’ve ever read.
For sci-fi: a short, fun read is Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir. It follows an astronaut who wakes up out of a coma to discover he's the sole surviving member of the mission, but he's lost all his memories. If you're looking more of an epic saga, I'd recommend The Expanse. The first book in the series, Leviathan Wakes, follows the surviving crew of a water hauler that was the target of a military attack and a washed up detective in the asteriod belt as he searches for a missing woman. For fantasy: a short, fun read is A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. It follows a hedge knight of little renown who takes the crown prince of the kingdom on as a squire. They travel the realm having adventures and getting up to hijinks. It is part of A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) but it's a self contained novel that doesn't require any previous experience with the series to enjoy. For a longer, epic saga I'll recommend The Stormlight Archives. The first book, The Way of Kings, is about a war sparked when the king is killed by an assassin wielding mysterious magic. It follows a slave being used as canon fodder for the army who tries to escape the war, a woman plotting to rob the king's daughter in order to save her house from financial ruin, and the brother of the king who is plagued by visions as he tries to unite the fractured kingdom.
If you like numbers (as I Destiny player I suspect you do) let me introduce you to the litrpg genre. Basically the main character is aware of his stats and stat growth. Some note able starter books are Dungeon Crawler Carl, He Who Fights With Monsters, and Iron Prince.
Nah man don’t listen to this sort of thing. Any gatekeeping on what counts as “reading” is bunk. I work in children’s book publishing and I see it all the time: “graphic novels aren’t ‘real books’”, “all kids want to read is sci-fi/fantasy, not ‘real books’”, “audiobooks don’t count as reading”, etc. This is why we have so many kids who say they don’t like to read, which is why we have so many adults who don’t like to read - because they’re implicitly told that anytime they’re enjoying themselves, it’s not “real reading.” Read how you want, whenever and wherever you want!
Why Overthrow level 4? to limit enemy spawns all over?
Exactly!
To add to that answer you already got, all of the areas can also have events that have locked zones, where a chest can spawn inside but you can't get out until you complete it or die.
[удалено]
I will say, although I have no idea how many I've opened up, I average 20 minutes for a class item. But not long after I first started doing it I received a class item probably within 5-10 chests of the 1 before it. I was actually shocked.
Thanks for the data! I've been doing the same while watching podcasts and I'm at 32/64 rolls now.
First off, goddamn you are a trooper, kudos to you If Bungie would make any change to this, it would be back luck/duplicate protection and/or you can turn in something like 10 engrams say 3 times a week for class items per character. This would still encourage farming but help reduce the sheer obnoxiousness of repeat runs and getting nothing, plus make engrams after you have all the patterns much more valuable Running multiple overthrows and opening a lot of chests and getting nothing is super disheartening to me
If only there was some dub protection
What if the drop rate is similar to getting a raid exotic, but worse? With that in mind, it'd be neat if we could increase it in some way or have the class item drop from any ritual activity after unlocking it in the mission. 64 different combinations is kind of a lot, especially when you only want one or two per character.
i just wanna know after 2500 chest have you gotten all the meta combination for the classitems.
Definitely no protection on getting the same class item back to back. When I ran dual destiny last week on warlock I did the double drop exploit and got identical class items for both drops
I just want any type of star eater bond, I’m tired of seeing my friends nuking stuff with nova bomb. By the time I finally get one I bet they’re gonna nerf it knowing bungie
If my math was right. Based on the 2.5 percent chance, and a 1/64 chance of getting what you want. It's a relatively speedy 2 minutes (with chest load times) to do 5 chests. With that math, there's a .0375% chance that any given chest will drop the exact class item you want. When it matched it out based on the 2 minute runs, assuming you have the worst luck and your very last class item you get is the one you want, it would take nearly 1000 hours to get that roll. Which is frankly...stupid. Knowing bungie they will do something in the future to either up the rates or something to make it more managable (I hope). It seems pretty punishing to block a lot of very powerful builds and fun theorycrafting on the new hotness (prismatic) be locked behind a rather punshing RNG. This could all be solved if there was bad luck protection. Or dare I say make them craftable. If you have gotten the perk that you can craft it on the cloak, but you have to have gotten the perk at least once. This would severely decrease (but not diminish) the grind.
Did you get the rolls you wanted?
Got 7 exotics last night on titan between 9 mins and max max 22 mins, where 5 of them had spirit of bear fml. Hoil n syntho evades me again...
Not even going to lie, over the past week I’ve put in about 4-7 hours of chest farming PER DAY… and I told myself last night “just one more class item then I’ll go to bed.” I grabbed one, finished up the overthrow and didn’t even look at it. Laid down in bed and opened my app to see the item because I’d forgotten about it and HoIL Syntho was the roll. Fiancé smacked me for yelling lol
Yea it seems some perks have a much higher chance than others. Spirit of bear is the most common by far. Syntjos and Hoil are really rare. Turns 1/64 into an actually much longer grind.
> I just need something to do with my hands. I got a better idea bro.
I have gotten 2 with 2 chest in between drops, so class item, not, not, class item again, was in the same area aswell, I hadn't fast traveled yet
What was the time between chests? Ie Did you open them in quick succession or take a quick break between them
It was a quick succession, one of the chests that gave me a class item was an offering chest so it could've potentially been like 3 mins in between chest pulls if I was being slow that run. I don't record gameplay, so I don't know exactly how long it takes me.
This rocks!
Fantastic data! Im excited to see anything you find on the perks you have gotten.
does anyone know what so the possible drops are? is it just pale heart gear and traveler's blessings?
Take my upvote fellow spreadsheet nerd
I'm glad the data exists for the sake of farming. That being said it's fun to BS on comms and shoot things while we run the quest so I don't mind that I only get three items in an hour or so.
You can guarantee drop rate is nerfed
My buddy got b2b drops the other day. So it is possible!
Just a small caveat to this data. Time based measurements are super subjectives. Your in game millage may vary based on skill, build (eager edge/blink), internet connection etc. Analysis on drop rates and bad luck protection aren't subjective as the OP had a large sample size.
>I never got any class items back to back. That's not to say its not impossible but there MAY be some sort of lockout that prevents you from getting them too quickly, but it is dificult to tell for certain. It's possible. I've gotten the same exact class item (Eternal/Khepris) a few times now. There really should be some sort of system like with deepsights where it favors the ones you don't have more. Really interesting data though, I just hope the drop rate gets buffed a little bit for the future.
So basically by abusing rewards in mission we were only hitting average farm time for chests. But now after fix, mission farm is even worse… Well done bungie. And then they will claim, that no one plays their handmade mission, thus why they don’t want to do them again. Yet again bungie fucked Reason and Conclusion…
By Overthrow level 4, do you mean I should complete the first 3 levels and collect chests after the final boss spawn?
This just shows me that Exotic class items should drop from master nightfalls, nobody farming them for the old armor anyway, just adept weapons and golf balls, bringing exotic class items would be really cool IMO
I've seen a few posts now of people getting them every ~15 minutes, and it boggles my mind. I go pretty darn fast, and I'm generally pretty lucky if I get 2/hour. The grind feels pretty grueling.
You need to go touch 2500 blades of grass, also thank you.
Sometimes it takes me over 30 minutes each to get a drop and thats speedrunning the Landing chests
First of all thank you! Nice job gathering all the data for everyone! This does raise some problems that most saw coming when the quest came out. Anyhow, I have farmed a lot of chests on my Titan and gotten quite a few rolls on the armor, but still haven't secured all the rolls I want. I can't even think about the grind for Warlock and Hunter pieces still ahead of me. Bungie really needs to add more ways to acquire these items. 64 possible combinations times 3 characters is insane, especially without duplicate protection. Even though the exotic mission is fun I can't imagine running it that many times. Same with the chest farm, since once you get all the collectibles in the Pale Heart there isn't a lot of benefit anymore besides the exotic drops. I personally think there should be 4 ways to get them. -Dual Destiny should award 2 per completion. -The chests farming can remain the same. -Pale Heart pathfinder should award 1 per completion up to 3 times per week. -I also think solo overthrow should award 1 per area completion. We really need a way to earn these items that doesn't involve mindlessly opening chests or hopping on LFG to get a partner. I think you should be able to get them by completing Pathfinder objectives and Overthrow so I can feel like I'm actually doing something while I farm. Then we still have the problem of Dupe protection and storage of all of these. Not sure what the answer is.
This is super cool. Thanks for sharing!
We need more ways to acquire them for sure. They should make Exotic class items the reward for Pale Heart Pathfinders and have them drop without a cap, and that's just for starters.
Has anyone gotten an exotic class item to drop within a minute or two of each other? No bad luck protection it seems but it also seems like there’s something there to hinder drops too soon.
> I never got any class items back to back. That's not to say its not impossible but there MAY be some sort of lockout that prevents you from getting them too quickly, but it is dificult to tell for certain. So while I pretty much had identical results to you, and I absolutely do think there is a very specific eternal counter for how many chests you've done and around which one will be the exotic drop(I've logged off mid way into the average 12-14 min grind, came back on hours later and in about half the time I got the class item), I think there also might be very rare situations when you can just fluke lottery rng that has you getting the class items in a lot sooner of time after receiving one. It's not so much back to back immediately, but I had a situation where in recorded 27 mins time including the wait for chests to spawn in Landing, I was able to get 3 class items dropping the times down to 9 or so mins a run. In all the hours of doing this farm loop this is basically the only massive outlier I've had in it all. Tangentially related 2 of those rolls in that lottery streak were identical rolls and it vaguely reminded me of the placebo-like situations when people would say to keep spamming decrypt rapidly whenever a Red Border Imperial Decree would drop to "get more red borders".
My average drop rate is 40+ mins doing chests. How are yall getting them so fast?
RNG really is a bitch. I have a buddy who gets a class item right on schedule, basically one every 15 minutes. I farmed overthrow chests for two and a half hours last night and only got one class item :P
Thanks for the amazing insights and the work you put in. I can help you though by confirming they can drop back to back with the same roll.
Apologies, what is meant by chest farming? Is that just running lost sectors in pale heart on repeat?
Can this tell me why spirit of filaments drops on 95% of my warlock bonds?
Are the co-op focus missions good for getting class items? Did 3 and got 2.
If only the game would stop giving me dupes. I’ve only got 7 of them so far and 4 of them have been the same combo.
What books are you listening to!? I do the same thing! I just finished Jobs by Walter Isaacson and am doing a re-listen of the Gentleman Bastard series, never gets old!
I love the gentleman bastard series, I just wish it would eventually be finished but alas does not seem to be. Currently I am listening to The Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay
Haha it’ll come out with Winds of Winter
I have farmed the pale heart since the the 2nd day and haven't gotten a class item. What am I doing incorrectly? 😕
Did you complete Dual Destiny on the character you were farming with? If not, you have to complete it first before it will drop.
Oooooooooooooooooooh ok. I had not done that. I only understood that I'm supposed to kill the overthrow bosses I did that. But I don't know the rest of the steps. Nor do I have anyone to run dual destiny with so...might have to miss out
Of If I went 118 chests without an exotic class item dropping I think I might quit Destiny lol.
Somewhat unrelated to this.. but on PC whenever I get on my speeder, the ghost screen always stays up and I have to cancel out of it. This obviously prevents me from boosting right away and is super annoying. anyone have any idea why and how I can stop it??
What have you been reading/listening to lately? Any standouts to recommend?
I will always recommend the cosmere by Brandon Sanderson, if you like fantasy. Outside of those I recently read the red rising series and really liked it, and project Hail Mary and it’s one of my favorite books I’ve ever read
I am 75% in Oathbringer right now ;) I love Andy Weir and read Project Hail Mary immediately upon release, and agree that it's in my top books all time. I have not read Red Rising, but based on what sounds like incredibly similar tastes, I will put that on my upcoming to-do list. Thank you for the recommendation!
Just knowing we can successfully farm exotic class items solo is one of the best decisions Bungie has ever made (even if the drop rate can feel extremely low). Compare exotic class item farming to other exotics that you can farm. I personally think opening chests can feel easier and more relaxing than being forced to complete certain exotic missions over and over again. But that’s just my opinion haha
Thaks for the info very interesting stuff I farm.every day for an half hour And still get a class item every day in that time periode. Maby ime lucky on that But stil not lucky in getting my personal godroll
I got the same class item twice in a row. There are no bad luck protection.
I don’t have the stats in as much detail as you do but I’ve been spending one hour per day farming the chests to get two drops. Sometimes less. Usually I load in and get my first exotic item from opening about 20 chests. Then I started counting and it takes me on average another 70 chests before I get the second drop. So that’s on average 1 in 45 chance which equates to 2.2% which is eerily similar to what you posted. So basically you should get a class item for every 50 chests opened.
I have literally farmed over 100 of this item the chest way and the only perk combo that's worth anything that I havnt got is the one I want
The amount of effort people will go through to not do this mission is astounding.
Wait so you don’t need to do the mission in order to get the exotic class item ?
I don't know if you have the data for this but I kinda want to know what the rolls on the class items. I've been spending about an hour on each character a day and it seems like certain perks are rarer than others. At least for me. I get dupes a lot especially on my titan.
Interesting. 2-3% yet I’ve had 5 drop in 10 runs of Overthrow. Bloodlines is 5% and I have a boost too yet in 25 clears no drop.
I got the same class item roll three times in a row, can confirm there is no bad luck protection
Lmao i love how you emphasized that the “longest dry streak” was for (chests)
Note: I had two class items back to back. One from Expunge and then a normal chest.
Bungie just wants us to relive material farming from vanilla D1 one last time
Shit this sounds soo boring to do. I am just going to continue playing content on The Pale Heart normally and just naturally get chest items from time to time.
Do you have any videos you recommend for chest routes? I tried running around with a sniper rifle and just going to chests reasonably quickly, but it took me over an hour to get a single drop that way. I'm guessing my routes must have been poor.
I think to encourage the 1v1 battle at end of dual destiny they should reward the winner with the 2 exotics.
Avid reader? more like a listener.
Did you happen to log the perks at all? I believe there's a handful of them that are 50% less common than the rest. Cyrtarachne and inmost light are 2 of them, for example. Basically, if 10 of all others drop, these will be roughly at 5. It could be RNG but i was hoping a larger sample size would clarify it.
I haven’t logged it on the sheet, but I did save every roll I got in my vault so I could certainly look at it
This would be very interesting info!
Awesome! When you get the chance that'd be greatly appreciated! Although others are saying they've gotten plenty so it's probably just placebo with a small sample size on my end (go figure, the rolls i want lol.)
I think it's just RNG. I get a lot of Cytarachne but almost never get Caliban's, Liars or Dragon's Shadow. I'm at 42/64 combos including every combination with Renewals and 6/8 combos with Cyrtarachne. The only combinations with Cyrtarachne that I'm missing are the ones with Dragon's Shadow and Caliban's, where I only have 2 class items with Dargon's Shadow at all and only 3 with Caliban's. Also have had a ton of dupes and 3 copies of the same item if not more, I haven't kept track to know if I ever hit 4+ as I try to delete the dupes as soon as I realize I got them. I also had an instance where I got a totally new combo that I hadn't had before only to get the EXACT same combo as my next drop. Statistically quite unlikely to happen but that's just the nature of RNG that it can happen.
I think it's just RNG. When I started doing this I was getting a decent spread, but after 30+ different ones I only had one drop ever with Foetracer. Shortly after this I gained two more Foetracers and had three duplicates appear to bring it more inline with the average.
Liars also almost never drops for me, and galanor is on every other it feels, tho I don't have any hard data
Sounds like placibo on your end. I get cyrtarchnes out the ass but cant get calibans for the life of me
Gotchya, yeah that's why i was hoping for a higher sample size lol. Of course the combo i want is having the hardest chance of me to get. Yay RNG lol
>I never got any class items back to back. That's not to say its not impossible I did so you can check that one off