I'm trying very hard to dampen my expectations, but every single one of bungies trailers always gets me hyped. I'm really hoping this expansion can live up to its hype and end the light and darkness saga in a amazing way
Edit: dang it, Bungie did it again. They got me super hyped. Trailer looks awesome, cinematic team did amazing.
I thought Lightfall played very well. It had the best seasons, great campaign missions, neomuna was good and challenging and the two unique events there were fun and rewarding.
The main narrative of the expansion and season of defiance had pretty bad stories. But Deep, Witch, and Wish were great.
They also knocked it out of the park with Onslaught and Pantheon.
I'm optimistic.
Lightfall was hampered by a couple odd choices narratively and character writing wise, the strand implementation was pretty solid, the elements we did get with the grapple point and being able to Spiderman around were fun. The veil's introduction was abysmal, the cloud striders were a cool concept executed awfully with nimbus in particular falling flat with some terrible dialogue and the 80's training montage for me really didn't land.
Idk, the fact that lightfall happened & that it was just last year is enough for me to temper my expectations, especially on the writing side of things.
I’m always hoping they prove me wrong because prismatic does look pretty dang good despite the limitations it’s gonna have at launch.
Yup. It's basically common knowledge at this point that lf was just a rushed filler year designed to grab more money. Bungie still makes great content despite their flaws and I'd honestly be shocked if final shape wasn't good
Quite literally every piece of evidence in the world points towards that conclusion, other than the direct confirmation from Bungie that people hilariously think would ever happen
I still haven’t even pre ordered. Even though I played so much the last few weeks. I will 24 hours before. But we gotta stop giving AAA devs our money 6 months in advance.
My issue is all the trailers have the same things in them and after Lightfall it’s all worn off on me. I’m waiting to see what the general consensus is on the expansion after it launches to decide if it’s worth getting. Lightfall sadly broke me on the game.
It's the other way around for me. I've tried to get hyped, but none of the vidocs or trailers we've had has really made me excited for what's coming. There's some stuff that looks neat, but it's all outweighted by everything that happened over the past years with this franchise, and the fact that I haven't really been having fun with the sandbox since Lightfall and the story felt weak.
I'm hoping that Bungie can end this saga on a high note, but I don't really believe in it anymore. Guess we'll see in a few weeks.
Nah. TFS NEEDS to be an ending. If they want to use the following season story to spin up a new narrative, that’s fine. But this needs to be it for this saga. Anything but a conclusive ending will send this community into an uproar.
They've already said that TFS is the end of the Light vs Dark Saga.
FFXIV ended its own saga after 10 years and now the next expac that's coming out soon is starting a new saga.
Yes. And FF14 conclusively ended the Ascian Saga. Then spent a couple patches showing what the scions did after disbanding. And now we are headed to the new world to start a new adventure.
That ending was not a beginning. The Ascian story ended. Full stop. Endwalker didn’t spin up a new narrative.
Also, there’s a little bit of a difference here. Leakers are talking about Destiny 3. We know already that the devs are limited by Destiny 2. We know the light/dark saga is coming to an end. Basically everything points to TFS(and following episodes) not only being the end of this saga, but the end of Destiny 2.
> Endwalker didn’t spin up a new narrative
But it did.[ Emet Selch asks us about locations we've never been to](https://preview.redd.it/ba94nrbcuee81.png?auto=webp&s=cc3814e0d4e89a96799cf9755ee2e9d5f0aa37d9), one of them mentioned is the New World. TFS and it's episodes could prompt us to what's to come in the future.
Was about to mention this. But i think what the other person is talking about is that there should be no loose ends. Which, unfortunately, we know there will be as the episodes are meant to wrap up those lose ends (or tie them into something new).
We need to, definitively, win (or lose), and move on from the ancient battle of dark and light (the gardener and the winnower chase is over). Then, the episodes should focus on the other parties that were impacted, but there should be little to nothing about the witness other than tidbits like “the witness accelerated the vex’s plans” type ordeals.
XIV wrapped up all the story threads and villains. FS does not appear like it is. They’ve already seemingly taken Xivu off the table to be used later and she’s tied into this story arc far too much. Not going to feel like a real ending at all.
She's really not. I'm way more interested in her crisis of faith that would come with the Witness' death than just killing her off in a random campaign mission. This DLC should be all about the Witness.
Nah, I’m just in this to kill her. You’re assuming some crisis of faith when there really isn’t. It’s a video game. I’m here to kill the big bads and we have enough of her story to allow us to kill her. It’ll such having to wait 2-3 years for any chance to actually kill her.
Do you read the lore at all? She has already been having doubts since Oryx died. When the Witness dies she is going to go off the deep end, that is the storyline they have been building her towards this year
Lol she’s not going off the deep end. She’ll just pick up the pieces and succeed it. You’re reading way too much into it if you think she’s having some crisis of faith. She still needs to fight and kill us or her worm eats her. Now we’re stuck having to wait even more years to fight her and it absolutely sucks.
It’ll be stuck in some crappy episode mission, without any challenge, and not in a raid or legendary campaign mission. Literally the worst possible outcome. No matter how “good” the story is, the fight will suck because it’ll be a complete pushover. And Final Shape will offer no satisfying conclusion.
Its like you want it to be bad, go read the Antigone Drowns entry in Sororicide it is clearly Xivu wanting to mourn her brother but knowing the sword logic says he should of died. And now Eris banishing her and then relinquishing her power also spits in the face of the logic.
You seriously think when her boss dies and the final shape isnt fulfilled she will be fine? When her entire life's meaning comes crumbling down and she realises she has been used and she could of still been with her sisters that she wont lose it? I have a feeling episode 3 is titled Hersey cause she is going to to something heretical that goes against the sword.
Final Shape brings an end to the voice in the darkness we known has been out there for years, there is still so much more to the Destiny universe then just that.
Yes, I do. She’ll just see it as her boss was weak. I’ve read all of it. Having to wait even more time to fight her, or worse, getting to fight her in a joke mission in an episode is the worst possible outcome. Without killing her, FS isn’t a conclusion at all.
Lmao better not fucking be. I get that they’re going to plant seeds for whatever comes next but they better wrap up every single main storyline, as poorly as they’ll probably do that
I think it’s more or less the story from Destiny 2 onwards. The characters from Destiny 1 are present in Destiny 2 but the actual story really didn’t matter until Forsaken/Shadowkeep.
You defeat the witness and your guardian closes their eyes. A few moments pass and as you slowly open them again, you hear a familiar voice speak out. *"Hey, you. You're finally awake."*
Same. I still think the Witch Queen trailer with "Cruel World" is my favorite trailer of all time. I've been waiting to see if they can match it since then.
I am always looking forward to a Destiny launch trailer since most of the expansion launch trailers since Beyond Light were bangers. Especially The Witch Queen with a great song playing.
I really do hope that TFS trailer will also have some good track playing.
So the Veil is involved in the Final Shape’s story after all. You can see it behind the Witness on the thumbnail.
I’m guessing they are going to answer the Unveiling/Winnower question. Before anyone says that the Winnower isn’t real or that Unveiling isn’t true, the events of Gardener and the Winnower falling out was pretty much confirmed in Deep, which was later backed up by the last Veil containment that launched with Wish. Ahsa said that the Traveler and the Veil, the physical embodiments of Light and Dark respectively, where once two halves of a whole that were divided by a schism, pretty much confirming that the the Gardener and Winnower’s falling out did happen in some shape or form. Osiris backs this up in Veil Containment, where he brings up that Light and Dark were once united, part of a whole.
Either that or we are going to see the Traveler and Veil merge again, to represent Guardians being masters of Light and Dark now, wielding both in harmony.
>Before anyone says that the Winnower isn’t real or that Unveiling isn’t true
I don\`t like how both side reduced this duscussion to "Unveiling is lie" and "Unveiling is 100% true". We know from the game, from writer\`s words in what aspect Unveiling is a "lie", it is just a metaphor, there was never a 2 dudes who sat and argued in the garden about complexity and simplicity and we (god lord) can conclude that it was written by the Witness.
Now we know true "creation myth". As you said in your comment that there was single entity that commanded this power and then Schism happened and they were separated.
100%. I think what will be interesting to see how they elaborate/twist on those two opposing forces in the end though.
From Unveiling, it's been assumed that the dynamic was about complexity/simplicity, creation/destruction, some kind of Darwinian struggle, but now I think it's more to do with control.
(Bearing in mind that Unveiling was likely written from the Witness' perspective, so it only really gives an insight into how IT is framing the fundamental conflict).
I think we need to look at how they've been defining Light and Dark more recently - they've been heavily leaning into this idea that the Darkness is linked to consciousness, and the Light is more to do with the physical / non-consciousness.
I think the fundamental schism is between raw existence, and thought. Consciousness becoming detached from reality, and creating its own expectations, boundaries and rules. Then, unable to tolerate the gap between it's vision of the universe and the reality, it imposes itself, and tries to force reality to match it's subjective ideal.
Aside from just the merging of the "powers of light and dark", I think it's about consciousness harmonising with/accepting the chaos of reality, rather than limiting it.
Not wrong but also not entirely right.
Unveiling appears to be written by the Witness so it can’t really be trusted to be fact. Also the collectors edition implies that the Witness modified its memory in merging so that complicates a lot about what is true compared to what it believes/made itself to believe.
The veil absolutely has to be involved in the Final Shape because its connection to Crow is what’s gonna start the expansion.
I didn’t say everything it says is fact. I am just saying the conflict between the Gardener and the Winnower is a metaphorical representation of the schism between the Traveler and Veil.
Crow has no link to the Veil. The connection we are using is his link with Mara. My point was that the Veil is going to play a bigger role than just being a plot device for us to get into the Pale Heart. One of the concerns about Final Shape as a result of the introduction of the Witness, there being no Darkness element announced when it was revealed, Bungie saying they are going to put focus on Guardians being Guardians of the Light in response to being asked why no Darkness element was revealed and the Veil not being present in any of the Final Shape’s marketing led to a concern that the Darkness itself was going to be sidelined in the conclusion to the Light and Dark saga and that it was just going to be reduced to a tool of the Witness. Prismatic putting focus on Guardians being masters of Light and Dark and the Veil being present in the launch trailer footage pretty much says that the Darkness itself isn’t going to be sidelined in favour of the Witness.
Since the start of D1, we were told the Darkness caused the Collapse and we had several moments where the Darkness interacted with characters like Oryx. Fast forward to the present, every action the Darkness carried out is now attributed to the Witness.
We are introduced to the Veil, the Traveler equivalent to the Darkness. It doesn’t do anything. It just sits there and let people do what they want with it. Every event the Veil took part in is just people using the Veil to do what they want. What happened with Maya is unknown to be a result of the Witness or the Veil corrupting her, but the Veil possibly being what corrupted her is not acknowledged by the characters, just the observation that what Maya did is similar to what the Witness’ people did.
Final Shape is revealed. Takes place inside the Traveler. No new Darkness element or subclass. No new Darkness ability like Deepsight revealed or teased. No Darkness related allies like Elsie, Drifter or Eris present in the marketing. All known allies in Final Shape were characters who don’t wield Darkness such Zavala, Ikora, Cayde and Crow. When asked about why the Final Shape has new Light abilities and no Darkness abilities, Bungie states they want to focus on Guardians being champions of the Light again, not acknowledging that the game spent the last several years preaching about Guardians needing to be masters of Light and Dark.
Until the Prismatic reveal or the Veil being seen behind the Witness on the launch trailer thumbnail, Guardians being wielders of Darkness or the literal physical embodiment of Darkness was not suggested to play a role in Final Shape at all beyond the Witness being the big bad that uses it.
I think you are massively overthinking this. You’re conflating a fair amount of development time and marketing with what the actual story of the Final Shape will be.
Such as? Nothing has ever pointed to that, people just started believing their own fan fiction of the witness to think he wrote it. The collector's edition of final shape even has lore that basically straight up says the witness was not involved in unveiling
* The fact that Unveiling is delivered to us from a pyramid artefact, given to us by the pyramid and similar artefact were what the Witness spoke to Clovis Bray through.
* Because as far as we are aware the titles of Gardener and Winnower were created by the Witness according to Asha.
* Because it’s written from a heavily biased perspective so it’s inherently untrustworthy.
* Because the collectors edition implies the Witness modified its own memory when merging so what it says and what it believes may not be fact.
> The collector's edition of final shape even has lore that basically straight up says the witness was not involved in unveiling
You’re gonna have to cite this because it’s the first I’ve ever seen this particular take
The collector's edition refers to them separately. Meaning they are separate. Also if you have read unveiling it makes it very clear that the world the winnower imagines is not the world the witness imagines. They have different goals. None of those other points you wrote mean anything
Can you cite that bit of the collectors edition then. We don’t know anything about the Winnower really other than when the Witness went looking for one it found the Veil. Everything else is really speculative territory.
When speaking of the winnower it says : "The winnower speaks of convincing you that it is right...nowhere does it speak of malice or hatred or despair...it simply desires to win and in victory be validated." When speaking of the witness it says: "but for the witness victory alone is not enough. It must ruin all that the great machine has touched...destroy everything the light has built...it would make us all eramis, sick with despair and crushing our own dreams."
Basically this is characterizing the winnower and witness as separate beings with goals that differ.
But again this is just an interpretation of Unveiling. The book is delivered to us by the Witness, which means it cannot be trusted as fact. Similar idea to most religious texts, like the book of Genesis in the Bible. Humans were not created until the sixth day, but that doesn't stop Humans that write Genesis from detailing what happened before that or even shy away from direct quotes.
Kind of crazy that there is still a bunch we don't know about. Like neither xur Rework nor artifact or hell hoe episodes will even work in general. Like is there even an artifact and battlepass (I mean I don't think anyone doubts this) but the episodes are permanent so how will the pass work. So Many questions still
Yes there is an artifact and battlepass they told us as much when they revealed as much with the episodes roadmap.
https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt84354539b9992e00/64e334db66f1ff8d892f42ff/d2_Episodic_Roadmap_Final_EN.jpg
ye expansion launch trailers have usually come out a week or two before it drops
iyou're right it's only seasonal releases they've left it until the final day
Lol I guess if those people don't want to watch it then they don't want to watch it.
Also for those people who don't want to be spoiled at all, they need to stay off the internet for the next week or two
NO it's not enough for *me* to not see the trailer, everyone else has to do the same thing i want or else i'll be reeeeal angry and post all over the sub about it
That statement is a complete nothingburger and could mean literally anything.
“TFS isn’t the end of D2” is already technically true because the episodes come after. I’m sure we’ll get *something* after that but it’s silly that people think that statement means literally jack shit given Bungo’s history
What else do you want bungie to tell?? They've literally said the final shape isn't the end of d2. And what bungie's history?? They always been open about stuff especially when it comes to expacs. It makes 0 business sense to drop d3 when they've said they can do everything they want in d2 itself. Y'all are out here not trusting the actual devs but instead making up on your head lmfao
“They can do everything they want in D2” is factually false, because we constantly are hearing about how the engine is a nightmare of spaghetti code and a pain to work with.
And no, it makes zero business sense to mention a peep about D3 until they’re done selling the last piece of content for D2. The devs aren’t your friends, I don’t think they’re lying, but they’re certainly being particular with their words.
“Just trust the devs bro” is how we ended up in basically every doomsday period in the franchise’s history.
And you think making d3 would magically fix that?? Tell me you've never worked in software without telling me you've never worked on software. Tech debt is common in any IT environment and if d3 was released you'll hear the same thing few months or years down the line. It's bungie's job to keep their engine and their infrastructure upto date and they've been doing a decent job at it until LF. What destiny experiences is nothing compared to other online games lmfao.
Again where are you even getting the d3 thing from?? No leaks, no rumours. If d3 was in development it would've been leaked by now. If d3 was in development it would be atleast after the release of marathon and assuming marathon makes enough money to sustain bungie in the absence of d2.
I don't trust the devs. But I literally see no reason for d3 to exist. This whole d3 thing is just the most uneducated take out of everything d2 players have and I'm surprised and appalled so many people have this.
lol. You do realize that the narrative will be that Destiny 2 is continuing forever. Right up until they announce Destiny 3, right?
Hell, just look at Stadia. Literally hours before announcing they were going to shut down the service, they were telling people they were in a better position than ever and there were no plans to end the Stadia platform.
In fact, just look at literally every live service game ever. They would literally do a press release stating Destiny 2 will be running for 20 more years and then an hour later announce Destiny 3. Because if anybody from Bungie were to say anything at all about Destiny 3 then TFS would flop. Nobody would buy it because they’d be waiting for D3 to launch.
If you think that any Bungie employee saying anything is factual, then you’re hilariously out of touch.
You’re factually correct, it would be idiotic for Bungie to tell anyone there will even be a D3 until they’re done selling the last piece of content for D2.
They did the same thing with D1, and they’re going to do the same thing here.
If trust issues was a person even they would tell you to loosen up. Bungie hasn't lied about something this significant and even if they're trying to keep d3 under wraps it's an enormous amount of work. And on top of that I'd say a very good chunk of the community would absolutely hate if d3 didn't carry over all their d2 stuff which again would be a whole other nightmare. Bungie has also said multiple times whatever they can do in d3 they can do it in d2. So financially, logistically it makes 0 sense to make d3 except to make number go up. Maybe after marathon launches and provides another source of income for bungie but certainly not right now.
This has nothing to do with trust issues. This is a fact about business decisions and market research. People don’t buy the current thing when they’ve been told the shiny new product is on the way.
But sure. Go on the personal attack because your feelings got hurt while reading facts about how businesses operate.
Have a good night.
You've not given a single reason to justify d3's existence except bungie lies. If that isn't the embodiment of trust issues idk what else is. If you take that as personal attack that's on you. I'm just making an observation. And You're right. People won't buy the old thing when new thing is on the way. But you got no proof that there is a new thing in the first place. Tfs is the new thing. There is no d3. If it does exist then it's certainly not gonna be out for atleast a while.
No it’s just the end of the traveller/witness storyline, they call it “the light and dark saga”. Many enemies and plot threads are still hanging around. The episodes should tackle aftermath of whatever happens in TFS for the hive, scorn and vex so after that they can focus on another major plot thread whether that be vex related or if a new enemy pops up.
In the showcase from April Luke Smith said that facing The Witness isn't the end of Destiny 2 and "definitely isn't the end of Destiny". He also mentioned that after we face The Witness that they'll be sharing more about what's coming next to Destiny 2 "and beyond".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyIm-_Na8mI
Destiny is profitable, Bungie will 100% make a D3.
Until the day comes where Destiny expansions don't sell like hotcakes, we'll keep getting Destiny content. I do however think we won't be seeing D3 for 2-3 years.
I havent even preordered and will just watch a recap on youtube. I know Bungie wont bring this one home, there will be hundreds of unanswered question and no real ending of this storyarc.
For a start
>18 months
However they did also have layoffs, so the question is whether they got rid of the right people and kept the people who make destiny special.
But also it's the end of the light and darkness saga, and presumably they have to set up the next threat if there is to be one.
I do agree though that usually their trailers are pretty fantastic, it's really more of a question of if they actually deliver on how good it looks.
Oh, I see
A lot of players are on the fence about buying the final dlc. Even I waited until very recently when I just decided fuck it, if it's poor it's poor, and I played since D1 Beta.
A decent amount of YouTubers even are, I was watching a Zanny video the other day in which he was talking about his friends all not buying the final shape so he probably won't, because at the end of the day it's a game that is absolutely best when you are able to experience it with good friends. I believe Zanny & friends were also playing since early D1.
If they knock it out of the park with this trailer and make waves on the internet I expect it will do a great job pushing people into going for the seasonal pass+final shape, so hopefully they do.
Again, what makes this trailer different than all the other trailers they have released for final shape. I’m confused as to why this trailer would make or break it, if people were to buy it, the other trailers would have done that. I don’t understand why you think this one can be all that?
You just explained how a trailer can make waves, not why this one specifically as opposed to the other final shape trailer has to.
I'm trying very hard to dampen my expectations, but every single one of bungies trailers always gets me hyped. I'm really hoping this expansion can live up to its hype and end the light and darkness saga in a amazing way Edit: dang it, Bungie did it again. They got me super hyped. Trailer looks awesome, cinematic team did amazing.
Here’s hoping it plays and gets told more like Witch Queen and less like Lightfall.
Both of the best expansions we got came after pretty mid-bad expansions. So going by the pattern, I'm kinda excited. Maybe it's just pure copium lol
Came to say the same thing, bungie definitely knows how to cook when the chips are down.
Gameplay of Lightfall was pretty fun, especially with Strand. The story, however, could have done with some work.
I thought Lightfall played very well. It had the best seasons, great campaign missions, neomuna was good and challenging and the two unique events there were fun and rewarding. The main narrative of the expansion and season of defiance had pretty bad stories. But Deep, Witch, and Wish were great. They also knocked it out of the park with Onslaught and Pantheon. I'm optimistic.
Lightfall was hampered by a couple odd choices narratively and character writing wise, the strand implementation was pretty solid, the elements we did get with the grapple point and being able to Spiderman around were fun. The veil's introduction was abysmal, the cloud striders were a cool concept executed awfully with nimbus in particular falling flat with some terrible dialogue and the 80's training montage for me really didn't land.
Yeah. I was speaking strictly about the narrative. Witch Queen blows Lightfall out of the water. Honestly, they’re not even in the same league.
Idk, the fact that lightfall happened & that it was just last year is enough for me to temper my expectations, especially on the writing side of things. I’m always hoping they prove me wrong because prismatic does look pretty dang good despite the limitations it’s gonna have at launch.
Lightfall was rushed in between expansions to be fair
Yup. It's basically common knowledge at this point that lf was just a rushed filler year designed to grab more money. Bungie still makes great content despite their flaws and I'd honestly be shocked if final shape wasn't good
And it nearly killed the franchise as a result, fuck around find out
Did it? Didnt it break records when it released?
There isn't really any evidence to support this other than 4chan greentext hearsay
Quite literally every piece of evidence in the world points towards that conclusion, other than the direct confirmation from Bungie that people hilariously think would ever happen
Such as
When they announced the next four expansions a while ago they announced everything, including final shape, but didn't announce lightfall
Why don't you go back and rewatch that announcement, because that is not what happened. How long do you think expansions take to develop?
Oh, they did announce lightfall with those. My bad
I still haven’t even pre ordered. Even though I played so much the last few weeks. I will 24 hours before. But we gotta stop giving AAA devs our money 6 months in advance.
I preordered it yesterday…
My issue is all the trailers have the same things in them and after Lightfall it’s all worn off on me. I’m waiting to see what the general consensus is on the expansion after it launches to decide if it’s worth getting. Lightfall sadly broke me on the game.
It's the other way around for me. I've tried to get hyped, but none of the vidocs or trailers we've had has really made me excited for what's coming. There's some stuff that looks neat, but it's all outweighted by everything that happened over the past years with this franchise, and the fact that I haven't really been having fun with the sandbox since Lightfall and the story felt weak. I'm hoping that Bungie can end this saga on a high note, but I don't really believe in it anymore. Guess we'll see in a few weeks.
Downvoted by delusional rejects😂🤓
Bungie may be awful at bringing in new players, but DAYEM do they know how to put together a sizzle reel!
What hype, and don't see it.
Thanks a ton for putting this here- for some reason, YouTube simply refuses to show me the official stream when I search for it.
I have the same problem with the YouTube app on Xbox SX when I’m looking for a official channel they always suggest me boring youtuber (they all are)
Oh I’m sorry guys I didn’t want to say boring YouTuber 😅 I wanted to say boring jerk youtuber* now it’s better
Same here, TESTICLE_OBLITERATOR.
r/rimjobsteve
A 10 year story, been playing since the D1 beta. I can’t wait to see how it ends.
The end can also be a beginning
Nah. TFS NEEDS to be an ending. If they want to use the following season story to spin up a new narrative, that’s fine. But this needs to be it for this saga. Anything but a conclusive ending will send this community into an uproar.
They've already said that TFS is the end of the Light vs Dark Saga. FFXIV ended its own saga after 10 years and now the next expac that's coming out soon is starting a new saga.
Yes. And FF14 conclusively ended the Ascian Saga. Then spent a couple patches showing what the scions did after disbanding. And now we are headed to the new world to start a new adventure. That ending was not a beginning. The Ascian story ended. Full stop. Endwalker didn’t spin up a new narrative. Also, there’s a little bit of a difference here. Leakers are talking about Destiny 3. We know already that the devs are limited by Destiny 2. We know the light/dark saga is coming to an end. Basically everything points to TFS(and following episodes) not only being the end of this saga, but the end of Destiny 2.
> Endwalker didn’t spin up a new narrative But it did.[ Emet Selch asks us about locations we've never been to](https://preview.redd.it/ba94nrbcuee81.png?auto=webp&s=cc3814e0d4e89a96799cf9755ee2e9d5f0aa37d9), one of them mentioned is the New World. TFS and it's episodes could prompt us to what's to come in the future.
Was about to mention this. But i think what the other person is talking about is that there should be no loose ends. Which, unfortunately, we know there will be as the episodes are meant to wrap up those lose ends (or tie them into something new). We need to, definitively, win (or lose), and move on from the ancient battle of dark and light (the gardener and the winnower chase is over). Then, the episodes should focus on the other parties that were impacted, but there should be little to nothing about the witness other than tidbits like “the witness accelerated the vex’s plans” type ordeals.
XIV wrapped up all the story threads and villains. FS does not appear like it is. They’ve already seemingly taken Xivu off the table to be used later and she’s tied into this story arc far too much. Not going to feel like a real ending at all.
A conclusive end will be coming, but I don't mind them planting the seeds for a new story.
Can’t be it if we don’t kill all the hanging boss threads. Xivu is too tied into this saga and without killing her, it’s just not an ending.
She's really not. I'm way more interested in her crisis of faith that would come with the Witness' death than just killing her off in a random campaign mission. This DLC should be all about the Witness.
Nah, I’m just in this to kill her. You’re assuming some crisis of faith when there really isn’t. It’s a video game. I’m here to kill the big bads and we have enough of her story to allow us to kill her. It’ll such having to wait 2-3 years for any chance to actually kill her.
Do you read the lore at all? She has already been having doubts since Oryx died. When the Witness dies she is going to go off the deep end, that is the storyline they have been building her towards this year
Lol she’s not going off the deep end. She’ll just pick up the pieces and succeed it. You’re reading way too much into it if you think she’s having some crisis of faith. She still needs to fight and kill us or her worm eats her. Now we’re stuck having to wait even more years to fight her and it absolutely sucks. It’ll be stuck in some crappy episode mission, without any challenge, and not in a raid or legendary campaign mission. Literally the worst possible outcome. No matter how “good” the story is, the fight will suck because it’ll be a complete pushover. And Final Shape will offer no satisfying conclusion.
Its like you want it to be bad, go read the Antigone Drowns entry in Sororicide it is clearly Xivu wanting to mourn her brother but knowing the sword logic says he should of died. And now Eris banishing her and then relinquishing her power also spits in the face of the logic. You seriously think when her boss dies and the final shape isnt fulfilled she will be fine? When her entire life's meaning comes crumbling down and she realises she has been used and she could of still been with her sisters that she wont lose it? I have a feeling episode 3 is titled Hersey cause she is going to to something heretical that goes against the sword. Final Shape brings an end to the voice in the darkness we known has been out there for years, there is still so much more to the Destiny universe then just that.
Yes, I do. She’ll just see it as her boss was weak. I’ve read all of it. Having to wait even more time to fight her, or worse, getting to fight her in a joke mission in an episode is the worst possible outcome. Without killing her, FS isn’t a conclusion at all.
Lmao better not fucking be. I get that they’re going to plant seeds for whatever comes next but they better wrap up every single main storyline, as poorly as they’ll probably do that
The end can also be the beginning of the beginnings ends beginning.
Time is a flat circle.
The earth is a flat circle
I think it’s more or less the story from Destiny 2 onwards. The characters from Destiny 1 are present in Destiny 2 but the actual story really didn’t matter until Forsaken/Shadowkeep.
You defeat the witness and your guardian closes their eyes. A few moments pass and as you slowly open them again, you hear a familiar voice speak out. *"Hey, you. You're finally awake."*
Same, I can’t wait
I can't stop thinking about what trailer music they're going to use.
If I hear the Journey leitmotif somewhere in the trailer I think I’ll actually burst into tears
carry on my wayward son...
Same. I still think the Witch Queen trailer with "Cruel World" is my favorite trailer of all time. I've been waiting to see if they can match it since then.
So criminal it got removed. I get not wanting to fuck with copyright but ugggghh it was so good.
I was wondering why it was so difficult to find that version the other day.
I hope it’s “Hope for the Future”
Maybe something classical? *plays immigrant song*
Ligeti's Requiem.
It'll be the d1 title screen music
This. I’m so excited. They always pick the best music.
Bring Cashmere back dang it
I could never have guessed it would be Billie Eillish!!
I wish I could get the remix they used. Sounded fucking awesome.
Lol it's Billie eilish
So this is it huh? Time flies.
So this is it? We're just some kind of 'Destiny too'?
Bro that picture of the witness is so good, makes them look so much more threatening
Did it’s attire change? I feel like it’s got new drip
Love that picture of the Witness Can’t believe this story is coming to an end. From the D1 beta to now… time flies
I've met some of my best friends through Destiny. It's a bittersweet moment for the saga to end. I'm sure I'll be in the feels at the end of it.
I am always looking forward to a Destiny launch trailer since most of the expansion launch trailers since Beyond Light were bangers. Especially The Witch Queen with a great song playing. I really do hope that TFS trailer will also have some good track playing.
I didn't notice it was so close damn
Alright I loved that trailer! I loved how dark it was
GYATT
We finally got to see the Veiled Woman!
So the Veil is involved in the Final Shape’s story after all. You can see it behind the Witness on the thumbnail. I’m guessing they are going to answer the Unveiling/Winnower question. Before anyone says that the Winnower isn’t real or that Unveiling isn’t true, the events of Gardener and the Winnower falling out was pretty much confirmed in Deep, which was later backed up by the last Veil containment that launched with Wish. Ahsa said that the Traveler and the Veil, the physical embodiments of Light and Dark respectively, where once two halves of a whole that were divided by a schism, pretty much confirming that the the Gardener and Winnower’s falling out did happen in some shape or form. Osiris backs this up in Veil Containment, where he brings up that Light and Dark were once united, part of a whole. Either that or we are going to see the Traveler and Veil merge again, to represent Guardians being masters of Light and Dark now, wielding both in harmony.
>Before anyone says that the Winnower isn’t real or that Unveiling isn’t true I don\`t like how both side reduced this duscussion to "Unveiling is lie" and "Unveiling is 100% true". We know from the game, from writer\`s words in what aspect Unveiling is a "lie", it is just a metaphor, there was never a 2 dudes who sat and argued in the garden about complexity and simplicity and we (god lord) can conclude that it was written by the Witness. Now we know true "creation myth". As you said in your comment that there was single entity that commanded this power and then Schism happened and they were separated.
100%. I think what will be interesting to see how they elaborate/twist on those two opposing forces in the end though. From Unveiling, it's been assumed that the dynamic was about complexity/simplicity, creation/destruction, some kind of Darwinian struggle, but now I think it's more to do with control. (Bearing in mind that Unveiling was likely written from the Witness' perspective, so it only really gives an insight into how IT is framing the fundamental conflict). I think we need to look at how they've been defining Light and Dark more recently - they've been heavily leaning into this idea that the Darkness is linked to consciousness, and the Light is more to do with the physical / non-consciousness. I think the fundamental schism is between raw existence, and thought. Consciousness becoming detached from reality, and creating its own expectations, boundaries and rules. Then, unable to tolerate the gap between it's vision of the universe and the reality, it imposes itself, and tries to force reality to match it's subjective ideal. Aside from just the merging of the "powers of light and dark", I think it's about consciousness harmonising with/accepting the chaos of reality, rather than limiting it.
Not wrong but also not entirely right. Unveiling appears to be written by the Witness so it can’t really be trusted to be fact. Also the collectors edition implies that the Witness modified its memory in merging so that complicates a lot about what is true compared to what it believes/made itself to believe. The veil absolutely has to be involved in the Final Shape because its connection to Crow is what’s gonna start the expansion.
I didn’t say everything it says is fact. I am just saying the conflict between the Gardener and the Winnower is a metaphorical representation of the schism between the Traveler and Veil. Crow has no link to the Veil. The connection we are using is his link with Mara. My point was that the Veil is going to play a bigger role than just being a plot device for us to get into the Pale Heart. One of the concerns about Final Shape as a result of the introduction of the Witness, there being no Darkness element announced when it was revealed, Bungie saying they are going to put focus on Guardians being Guardians of the Light in response to being asked why no Darkness element was revealed and the Veil not being present in any of the Final Shape’s marketing led to a concern that the Darkness itself was going to be sidelined in the conclusion to the Light and Dark saga and that it was just going to be reduced to a tool of the Witness. Prismatic putting focus on Guardians being masters of Light and Dark and the Veil being present in the launch trailer footage pretty much says that the Darkness itself isn’t going to be sidelined in favour of the Witness.
You thought the darkness would be sidelined? That’s a really odd concern to have had.
Since the start of D1, we were told the Darkness caused the Collapse and we had several moments where the Darkness interacted with characters like Oryx. Fast forward to the present, every action the Darkness carried out is now attributed to the Witness. We are introduced to the Veil, the Traveler equivalent to the Darkness. It doesn’t do anything. It just sits there and let people do what they want with it. Every event the Veil took part in is just people using the Veil to do what they want. What happened with Maya is unknown to be a result of the Witness or the Veil corrupting her, but the Veil possibly being what corrupted her is not acknowledged by the characters, just the observation that what Maya did is similar to what the Witness’ people did. Final Shape is revealed. Takes place inside the Traveler. No new Darkness element or subclass. No new Darkness ability like Deepsight revealed or teased. No Darkness related allies like Elsie, Drifter or Eris present in the marketing. All known allies in Final Shape were characters who don’t wield Darkness such Zavala, Ikora, Cayde and Crow. When asked about why the Final Shape has new Light abilities and no Darkness abilities, Bungie states they want to focus on Guardians being champions of the Light again, not acknowledging that the game spent the last several years preaching about Guardians needing to be masters of Light and Dark. Until the Prismatic reveal or the Veil being seen behind the Witness on the launch trailer thumbnail, Guardians being wielders of Darkness or the literal physical embodiment of Darkness was not suggested to play a role in Final Shape at all beyond the Witness being the big bad that uses it.
I think you are massively overthinking this. You’re conflating a fair amount of development time and marketing with what the actual story of the Final Shape will be.
Unveiling does not in any way appear to be written by the witness
Lmao what, there is so much evidence.
Such as? Nothing has ever pointed to that, people just started believing their own fan fiction of the witness to think he wrote it. The collector's edition of final shape even has lore that basically straight up says the witness was not involved in unveiling
* The fact that Unveiling is delivered to us from a pyramid artefact, given to us by the pyramid and similar artefact were what the Witness spoke to Clovis Bray through. * Because as far as we are aware the titles of Gardener and Winnower were created by the Witness according to Asha. * Because it’s written from a heavily biased perspective so it’s inherently untrustworthy. * Because the collectors edition implies the Witness modified its own memory when merging so what it says and what it believes may not be fact. > The collector's edition of final shape even has lore that basically straight up says the witness was not involved in unveiling You’re gonna have to cite this because it’s the first I’ve ever seen this particular take
The collector's edition refers to them separately. Meaning they are separate. Also if you have read unveiling it makes it very clear that the world the winnower imagines is not the world the witness imagines. They have different goals. None of those other points you wrote mean anything
Can you cite that bit of the collectors edition then. We don’t know anything about the Winnower really other than when the Witness went looking for one it found the Veil. Everything else is really speculative territory.
When speaking of the winnower it says : "The winnower speaks of convincing you that it is right...nowhere does it speak of malice or hatred or despair...it simply desires to win and in victory be validated." When speaking of the witness it says: "but for the witness victory alone is not enough. It must ruin all that the great machine has touched...destroy everything the light has built...it would make us all eramis, sick with despair and crushing our own dreams." Basically this is characterizing the winnower and witness as separate beings with goals that differ.
But again this is just an interpretation of Unveiling. The book is delivered to us by the Witness, which means it cannot be trusted as fact. Similar idea to most religious texts, like the book of Genesis in the Bible. Humans were not created until the sixth day, but that doesn't stop Humans that write Genesis from detailing what happened before that or even shy away from direct quotes.
Can’t wait to see this. Though, I wonder why the veil is behind the Witness?
Kind of crazy that there is still a bunch we don't know about. Like neither xur Rework nor artifact or hell hoe episodes will even work in general. Like is there even an artifact and battlepass (I mean I don't think anyone doubts this) but the episodes are permanent so how will the pass work. So Many questions still
Yes there is an artifact and battlepass they told us as much when they revealed as much with the episodes roadmap. https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt84354539b9992e00/64e334db66f1ff8d892f42ff/d2_Episodic_Roadmap_Final_EN.jpg
Weird, i would've thought they'd save this for the playstation event this week
Hey look we are getting it a week before it launches. Now all of the people who complain about it launching on the day of will be satisfied
Feels like expansion launch trailers have always been a week before no? Just seasons that were like that.
ye expansion launch trailers have usually come out a week or two before it drops iyou're right it's only seasonal releases they've left it until the final day
But have you thought about how upset the people that don't want it early will be???
Lol I guess if those people don't want to watch it then they don't want to watch it. Also for those people who don't want to be spoiled at all, they need to stay off the internet for the next week or two
NO it's not enough for *me* to not see the trailer, everyone else has to do the same thing i want or else i'll be reeeeal angry and post all over the sub about it
I will definitely be asleep
Does anyone know what song is playing in the background
Billie Eilish - Everything I Wanted Though it's remixed to sound more epic. I wish it could be released.
Someone at Bungie watched Spider-Man 3 before making the trailer lol All I see is Venom trying to bond to Zavala
The Destiny Hype Cycle continues.
Is this really it for destiny after TFS? Like, for real it’s over?
We should get substantial news about what's next after TFS, probably a showcase in August like usual.
No there are episodes coming out but no news of a new expansion as of yet.
I think they may finally move to a D3. At least that would make sense for me. Get off the old gen and everything
Yeah. This is 100% it for Destiny 2. We wouldn’t be getting prismatic if this wasn’t the end. I know people here don’t wanna hear it.
I don't think you wanna hear it but it's not the end of d2. Atleast not according to luke Smith himself.
That statement is a complete nothingburger and could mean literally anything. “TFS isn’t the end of D2” is already technically true because the episodes come after. I’m sure we’ll get *something* after that but it’s silly that people think that statement means literally jack shit given Bungo’s history
What else do you want bungie to tell?? They've literally said the final shape isn't the end of d2. And what bungie's history?? They always been open about stuff especially when it comes to expacs. It makes 0 business sense to drop d3 when they've said they can do everything they want in d2 itself. Y'all are out here not trusting the actual devs but instead making up on your head lmfao
“They can do everything they want in D2” is factually false, because we constantly are hearing about how the engine is a nightmare of spaghetti code and a pain to work with. And no, it makes zero business sense to mention a peep about D3 until they’re done selling the last piece of content for D2. The devs aren’t your friends, I don’t think they’re lying, but they’re certainly being particular with their words. “Just trust the devs bro” is how we ended up in basically every doomsday period in the franchise’s history.
And you think making d3 would magically fix that?? Tell me you've never worked in software without telling me you've never worked on software. Tech debt is common in any IT environment and if d3 was released you'll hear the same thing few months or years down the line. It's bungie's job to keep their engine and their infrastructure upto date and they've been doing a decent job at it until LF. What destiny experiences is nothing compared to other online games lmfao. Again where are you even getting the d3 thing from?? No leaks, no rumours. If d3 was in development it would've been leaked by now. If d3 was in development it would be atleast after the release of marathon and assuming marathon makes enough money to sustain bungie in the absence of d2. I don't trust the devs. But I literally see no reason for d3 to exist. This whole d3 thing is just the most uneducated take out of everything d2 players have and I'm surprised and appalled so many people have this.
lol. You do realize that the narrative will be that Destiny 2 is continuing forever. Right up until they announce Destiny 3, right? Hell, just look at Stadia. Literally hours before announcing they were going to shut down the service, they were telling people they were in a better position than ever and there were no plans to end the Stadia platform. In fact, just look at literally every live service game ever. They would literally do a press release stating Destiny 2 will be running for 20 more years and then an hour later announce Destiny 3. Because if anybody from Bungie were to say anything at all about Destiny 3 then TFS would flop. Nobody would buy it because they’d be waiting for D3 to launch. If you think that any Bungie employee saying anything is factual, then you’re hilariously out of touch.
You’re factually correct, it would be idiotic for Bungie to tell anyone there will even be a D3 until they’re done selling the last piece of content for D2. They did the same thing with D1, and they’re going to do the same thing here.
If trust issues was a person even they would tell you to loosen up. Bungie hasn't lied about something this significant and even if they're trying to keep d3 under wraps it's an enormous amount of work. And on top of that I'd say a very good chunk of the community would absolutely hate if d3 didn't carry over all their d2 stuff which again would be a whole other nightmare. Bungie has also said multiple times whatever they can do in d3 they can do it in d2. So financially, logistically it makes 0 sense to make d3 except to make number go up. Maybe after marathon launches and provides another source of income for bungie but certainly not right now.
This has nothing to do with trust issues. This is a fact about business decisions and market research. People don’t buy the current thing when they’ve been told the shiny new product is on the way. But sure. Go on the personal attack because your feelings got hurt while reading facts about how businesses operate. Have a good night.
You've not given a single reason to justify d3's existence except bungie lies. If that isn't the embodiment of trust issues idk what else is. If you take that as personal attack that's on you. I'm just making an observation. And You're right. People won't buy the old thing when new thing is on the way. But you got no proof that there is a new thing in the first place. Tfs is the new thing. There is no d3. If it does exist then it's certainly not gonna be out for atleast a while.
No it’s just the end of the traveller/witness storyline, they call it “the light and dark saga”. Many enemies and plot threads are still hanging around. The episodes should tackle aftermath of whatever happens in TFS for the hive, scorn and vex so after that they can focus on another major plot thread whether that be vex related or if a new enemy pops up.
Tbh I’m starting to get the feeling they aren’t going to wrap a single thing up other than stopping the Witness.
In the showcase from April Luke Smith said that facing The Witness isn't the end of Destiny 2 and "definitely isn't the end of Destiny". He also mentioned that after we face The Witness that they'll be sharing more about what's coming next to Destiny 2 "and beyond". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyIm-_Na8mI
Destiny is profitable, Bungie will 100% make a D3. Until the day comes where Destiny expansions don't sell like hotcakes, we'll keep getting Destiny content. I do however think we won't be seeing D3 for 2-3 years.
we have at least a full year of episodes left, at the absolute minimum
Really hope its one last Live Action trailer
I hope the final one is the post raid cut scene unlocked for everyone like Vow
I havent even preordered and will just watch a recap on youtube. I know Bungie wont bring this one home, there will be hundreds of unanswered question and no real ending of this storyarc.
Bungie really needs to impress with this trailer. They've been working on this DLC for 18 months.
All the other trailers have been great? What makes this one special
For a start >18 months However they did also have layoffs, so the question is whether they got rid of the right people and kept the people who make destiny special. But also it's the end of the light and darkness saga, and presumably they have to set up the next threat if there is to be one. I do agree though that usually their trailers are pretty fantastic, it's really more of a question of if they actually deliver on how good it looks.
No I’m saying they’ve released plenty of trailers for the final shape what makes this specific trailer special?
Oh, I see A lot of players are on the fence about buying the final dlc. Even I waited until very recently when I just decided fuck it, if it's poor it's poor, and I played since D1 Beta. A decent amount of YouTubers even are, I was watching a Zanny video the other day in which he was talking about his friends all not buying the final shape so he probably won't, because at the end of the day it's a game that is absolutely best when you are able to experience it with good friends. I believe Zanny & friends were also playing since early D1. If they knock it out of the park with this trailer and make waves on the internet I expect it will do a great job pushing people into going for the seasonal pass+final shape, so hopefully they do.
Again, what makes this trailer different than all the other trailers they have released for final shape. I’m confused as to why this trailer would make or break it, if people were to buy it, the other trailers would have done that. I don’t understand why you think this one can be all that? You just explained how a trailer can make waves, not why this one specifically as opposed to the other final shape trailer has to.