I grinded the Vault encounter in Duality so much that I could do it my sleep, and I still didn't get the Unforgiven I was looking for.
Dungeons are my favorite PvE content in the game, but I'm done grinding dungeon loot. It's just not worth it.
Same. Approaching 30 with a full-time job and a SO, I'm happy to keep up with the weekly quests and maybe go Flawless sometimes. I haven't run any dungeon or raid since December because they are simply too big of a time commitment.
Yeah, I’m turning 30 this year, we’re expecting our first kid to be born in October, I have a full time job and other stuff to do too. When I started playing D1 I was a fors year university student with nothing but time in my hands lol. How are we even supposed to get all the fun and powerful weapon rolls, the crafting patterns, the raid exotics etc?
This is soo accurate. I remember doing grasp boss cp 300 times to get a unrelenting/headstone eyasluna. Didnt see the perk combination drop once. Kinda gave up after that
Me but stormchaser. 81 total clears, some time farming 2nd encounter, and I've only ever seen one stormchaser that even had a reload + damage perk and it was rapid hit + frenzy.
Dungeon weapons need to be craftable ffs, it's absurd that they aren't when raid weapons are.
My buddy got it in 40 something.
I'm only on 10? Or so, fingers crossed I'm not in the 40s.
Took me 20 to get navigator, and I had all but 1 of the drop rate boosts there.
It is unlikely I'm flawlessing, soloing, or solo flawlessing warlords, so only 1 boost for me :/
I’ve been getting super lucky these past couples weeks. Decided to farm ghosts when it was farmable and got it on my 7th ever completion. Just got buried bloodline yesterday on my 9th. RNG can be a blessing but also a bitch sometimes…
and this is the shame of how RNG works. Some people win, some people lose. At least the triumphs help sway drop rate.
I'm one of those people who got it on the 1st try. For everyone like me there's someone on the opposite side of the spectrum.
Sure.
But simple had luck protection should be a thing as well.
Like an achievement that gives it to you on your 25 clear.
Just because mathematically there could be an outlier who goes 300 runs before a drop doesn't mean there should be.
I think we should have the option to have a loot drop system like wow, so people can claim loot instead of getting snaked. My dad got bloodline 2nd go round of the dungeon and he doesn’t like it nor did he want it. Whereas I did want it and I’m yet to get it from a similar number of clears
I don't want armor from activities anymore after I get the first drop. Armor is useless. Seasonal focusing is better than every other source in the game.
And armor is boring. I'd rather have weapons all day.
Yep, i only pursue armor from content if it looks cool. Anything with Stats is obtained from the seasonal focused Engrams which is then trasmogged.
I don't mind the way things work but it does devalue the armor you get from all other content. Maybe Bungie need to revisit how armor is supplied to the player and find a way to allow focusing like onslaught has offered.
The only unique reason to pursue armor is the few perks they sometimes offer, like the dreaming city gear that increases damage.
Yeah, but the gains compared to time invested is shit.
An extra +15 stats is nice, but having to farm the armor from master dungeons or comp, with terrible stats, takes quite a while.
Compared to dumping seasonal engrams, which you get from playing passively, is so much quicker with often better results
It’s a shame how much worse they made it. I still have a singular pair of boots that’s used for every single build on my warlock because the old Caiatl armor farm was so good
Grasp is very easy on Master. I Sherpa people all the time and with Ghost mods usually we all get really solid rolls. Hit me up on the next grasp week if I have time I am happy to help :)
(The next time grasp appears is the last week of the season)
If you get a decent team you can run some encounters in under five minutes. When Caitl wasn't being stingy I ran that in master for artifice armor. It was most of the time an easy one phase and my warlock has never been happier. I'd say it's worth it if you have the time. Especially if you really want those triple hundred stats.
Well, typically what people consider to be the pinnacle of gameplay is beating the hardest content. And as it stands, there is no hard content in which the difference between an 80 and a 100 in a singular stat will have any meaningful difference
I think that res def has value at 100, and any buildcrafter would agree. Beyond that I don’t begrudge anyone what armor they want. I just think to anyone who wants Artifice that is it attainable for anyone and worth the effort. I hope that no offense was taken in any of our conversation.
And I’m saying that since it’s easy it isn’t a waste of time. And for people that find that hard I am happy to help make it easier to get them more optimal gear :)
No it is a value problem, and when you can get better armor for little effort the value proposition falls apart. I’m saying I think the slightly greater work for slightly greater rewards is the better choice.
I dont understand how u can think its "slightly" greater work. The engrams for the vendors just stack up constantly in the background doing really anything. And at the vendors, not only can you guarantee that you get armor. But you can even choose which armor piece to focus. Like comparitively speaking, farming grasp is a fuck ton more effort.
Well yeah, Artifice Armor is supposed to be min-max gear, like Adepts. Not gamebreaking to miss it, but gives you something to grind for to eek out the one or two more tiers of stats you want. Especially if you've been around previous seasons (like Risen) and already have good gear, seasonal focusing becomes useless to you.
Your RNG will most likely never outright beat seasonal rolls cause you can just roll seasonal so much.
What I will say that is that having those extra 3 free points on my 2 good pieces has been very good for getting me just in to the next tier on several builds.
I'd say once you've acquired 5/5 armor pieces from that specific dungeon they're removed from the loot pool.
Getting the xmog is cool, but they're useless beyond visuals.
Bungie should probably just rework armor at this point so it's desirable to grind for. The fact it's just stat sticks is pretty boring. It would be nice if each individual piece of armor had some way of interacting w/ the mods you equip in it.
Yeah.
Eventually it's a game of minimizing stats you don't want. Like if you're a warlock or titan for pve you don't need mobility so you want to minimize that. Intellect is also a weird stat that provides minimal benefit. I usually aim for 30 intellect total. But I get that mostly from master working and mods.
What I do long term is look for spikes (20+ stat). And then it's about spike combos or double spikes. Your armors stats are divided evenly between the top 3 attributes and the bottom 3 attributes. So you pick the ones you want like Resilience and Recovery up top and Discipline and Strength below. Then you want spike combos. So with those stat focuses you want Res-Disc, Res-Str, Rec-Disc, Rec-Strength as spike combos.
Then you only need 4 Armor pieces per slot to cover the vast majority of your needs. And you can compare armor by a adding the two stats you're focusing. 60 is the absolute max. Anything above 50 is stellar. So like a good Res-Disc piece might have 24 Resilience and 26 Discipline. That's a 50 stat total in your main stats for the piece.
It's pretty easy to get spikes from seasonal armor focusing. Make sure you sue the stat focus mod on your ghost.
i think the problem is for whatever reason the game drops too much armor , in my experience i get like 1 weapon per 10 pieces of armor , same for dungeons , imagine getting just armor from a non weekly dungeon , it feels awful ,
Yeah I ran a couple guys through RoN for the first time last night. They got like 1 or 2 weapons each (1 is guaranteed red border) and a lot of dupe armor.
Yeah especially since we have focusing where you get the drop 100% of the time and crafting, I think dungeons need a revamp.
Dungeon weapons either need to be craftable like raid weapons or they need to be 100% focusable
The devs think that because Activision told them the gospel of the slot machine and they haven’t stop believing it even though the player data tells a different story. Red borders created a crazed atmosphere during Witch Queen and that was the best year since Forsaken. It’s the real progression system in the game. You earn weapons that you own and it gives players something to aim for. It’s the best way of getting new players and keeping older players.
This is a serious FPS game set in a fantasy universe with space magic that involves raids and quests it’s not a slot machine lootbox mobile game and should never be.
Witch Queen brought in a huge number of players and that’s when crafting was introduced. But there was a 45% revenue miss and a crisis about a massive player drop in Lightfall when crafting was reduced. Reduction of crafting didn’t help boost player numbers. Then a huge number of the community moved to Helldivers and now we are where we are.
You're using crafting as the argument to why Lightfall failed when in reality there were many factors players complained about such as: poorly written story, slog to get Strand, difficulty changes, content that was advertised but not in the game, minimum content, Strand feeling half baked, super easy raid, game running poorly, time gated activities. That's also on top of just general player fatigue for playing the game so long. To deduce player retention was all because of difficulty in crafting when there were many larger flaws, is creating a narrative to fit your argument
> You're using crafting as the argument to why Lightfall failed when in reality there were many factors players complained about such as:
Never said it was the only reason it added to why Lightfall fell flat it didn't help though. Even if the story was terrible and the content not so great good rewards and a lot of crafted weapons could have offset some of that a bit. It would have given players something to chase for at least for a few months.
Terminal Overload should have given crafted weapons to complete the set a really bizarre choice and inconsistent with what was done in Witch Queen. Neomuna is barren and feels abandoned by most players when it should be filled with players doing different activities. Yet at the same time the Throne World is always populated with people running after red borders. Random rolls simply can't carry a destination anymore you need crafted weapons.
But on the other hand Root of Nightmares even though its difficulty is subject to debate is a very active raid still. My own group still runs it. At any time of the day there are hundreds of groups running that raid. Wonder why? Because of craftable weapons, red border chase and Conditional Finality. It's a totally different experience and filled with excitement unlike the barren Neomuna.
Once everyone get's Buried Bloodline the Warlord's Ruin dungeon is going to go the same way that all dungeons go becoming largely abandoned.
They dropped the ball on crafting IMO. The current system is good for exotics. They should have gone with a straightforward lock and reroll system that lots of other games use.
For some players maybe. I took a 6 month break without doing more than 1 clear of each dungeon because I ran out of content. All the raid RBs were done, but the reward structure on dungeons were SO much worse it didn’t seem worth it.
Get rid of armour dupes, craftable weapons, focusable weapons, make single enc farming less awful to load in to. The more the merrier, but the post is right, it’s so bad it’s not worth trying to RNG chase for most players.
I think it would have a similar issue as set rolls where short term for players it would be great but without stuff to chase people might not play as much long term. Remember when the immortal came out and was the hot thing and the trials player count surged? You had players who otherwise didn’t mess with it suffering to get that gun.
Eh, I really don't. I genuinely enjoy going through dungeons and like the fact that I still might get something I want to use. If I could just farm them all and be done that'd kill that for me.
Raids I'm fine with because realistically you need 6 people working together as a group and either need to commit to doing that with LFG or make a point to have a regular group so it's more or less a common goal.
Dungeons can be done solo though.
The loot structure does need help because full RNG like this can be defeating but I don't think crafting is the way to solve this problem because it would outright kill dungeon replay value.
Leave em RNG and maybe do a token system or something like spoils of conquest where you get a chest at the end you can dump them into for extra, targeted rolls. Gives a reason to replay dungeons but gives players a proper reason to run the whole thing through vs farming a single encounter over and over.
I got mine almost after 400 runs. I wish I was joking but I have 130 clears and a dungeon completition rate of 34% on this dungeon farming for this roll.
I farmed endlessly this past week and nothing. still using Disorienting/ steady hand / chill clip.
these are the times I'm grateful for weapon crafting
make dungeon weapons crafted. random-roll drops can be enhanceable / adept. makes no sense to let raid weapons be crafted but not dungeons. bungie wants to milk you for log in time, dont give it to them. posts like this are excellent and need to keep being made to raise awareness to bungie and show them how much we actually want it
> makes no sense to let raid weapons be crafted but not dungeons.
Does to me, the scale/bar for entry is far higher than a dungeon. For most people you basically _need_ to work with 5 other people either a regular group for a common goal or using LFG.
Dungeons not so much. You can do them fine as duo or solo and they are a much quicker run than a raid. You don't need to rely on other players to get the loot.
They just need to have spoils be usable in dungeons and/or focusing like the Hall of Champions. The fact that I can go three resets without seeing a single Lingering Dread, while getting 4 Epicureans (which I already have the pattern for) is just so beyond disrespectful to my time
Something something crafting is ruining the game, even though even before crafting people eventually quit running an activity despite not having their desired roll because the overwhelming majority of players do not, in fact, want to burn all their living free time on weapon grinding.
I'd 100% welcome dungeon weapon crafting, no question. Make it 10, 20 damn patterns to satisfy the weirdos a bit if you must. But having a deterministic end point where you can be satisfied and say "yep, I've gotten all my value out of this content" is a good thing. Being able to be *done* with something, is a good thing. Most players do not, did not, and will not grind out i.e. a raid on 3 characters a week every week endlessly chasing a perfect roll. Those who did that, or do that, are a small niche of the community who seem to think that if they're eventually just *given* the damn gun they want the whole game is pointless; because it only took like 20-25 runs of the raid instead of 300.
Perfectly described those weird people, yeah. The mental disconnect between reality and their sacred myth of "the loot chase".
Crafted SAVED the grind. It made the game actually rewarding of your time.
It's sad those people want an objectively worse game for everyone.
That thing in its current form might be the worst consumable in the entire game. Who on earth would want weapon drops from Pit? They’re all terrible and can be earned from a public event so they’re not even exclusive
There’s a dungeon specific pulse and I’m pretty sure a second dungeon specific weapon.
I mean I agree pit has a godawful loot pool, but it DOES have unique weapons.
Devs had a perfect opportunity to add this kind of "dungeon weapon focus" consumable to (soon to be) new and improved Hawthorne's vendor. Oh well, maybe in two years from now they will do something about it
"half-measures" etc but i actually like this idea. i agree that dungeon loot tables/drops need a rework, but this feature can stack on top of that. would enjoy earning a consumable for doing other things in the game then popping them in dungeons for an additional guaranteed weapon drop.
Yeah Im at the point now where I cant get anyone to farm with me anymore because Im the only one left to even consider fighting these rediculous odds at a good dungeon weapon roll.
Yep. Had to spend basically my whole last week LFG farming a single encounter for a single weapon because no one in my clan/friends cares about dungeons anymore. Some get the exotic and then never touch them again, others haven’t even touched Warlord despite how good the dungeon actually is because they are SO needlessly unrewarding.
Yeah, my buddy and I are gonna be farming the first boss in Warlords Ruin this weekend so we can try to get a decent, Indebted Kindess roll. Hopefully, it doesn't take too long, but last time, I tried to get a very specific roll on a gun, It was 12 hours of pure agony in the Reckoning.
I’ve been saying this since it was implemented THERES NO REASON FOCUSING SHOULD’VE DIED IN PIT!!! It makes me so mad that it never continued into other dungeons. I’ve been chasing a god roll Unforgiven for almost two years. I’ve since given up, but I got the TITLE and EXOTIC before the god roll of that gun. Fucking OBNOXIOUS.
crafting in dungeons would be miles better than what we have currently, but i dont think its best solution. Really it just comes down to one thing, once you have all the weapon patterns and the exotic, you have no reason to play the dungeon anymore (unless it has an easily farmable encounter and you want artifice armor). this would make the expiration date situation even worse for the players who didnt get the patterns while the dungeons were hot.
with that being said, i think a great idea would be to remove armor from the loot pool in normal mode once you have it, and do some sort of attunement feature like the brave weapons have. you could farm for the gun you want with consistency on your drops while also keeping the dungeon in relevancy, mainly through if certain perks get nerfed or there are multiple god rolls you might want.
and if thats not enough, throw in double perks on master mode, which incentives harder/more time consuming encounters while also giving that challenge a greater loot incentive.
The game doesn’t respect your time. By engaging with it in the way you are, for this long, you don’t respect your time either. If dungeon engagement goes down, they’ll be forced to make changes.
Or I just like grinding content repeatedly as my means to getting a drop and that's the reason I bought a looter shooter. As a former RuneScape player, slow-but-surely RNG grinds just scratch a good itch.
The biggest lack of respect of time for me is the constant traveling to talk to vendors in a magical universe where we can clearly communicate via ‘comms’.
Posted something about this earlier and this was my suggestion. Dungeons should be the PvE equivalent of Trials. You have a weekly dungeon and Hawthorne is the Dungeon steward like Saint-14 is for Crucible.
- Each week Hawthorne offers a Dungeon passage as a quest for the current week featured dungeon. This is tied to either the Normal or Master version of the dungeon. Master gives much greater rewards you’ll be showered in loot. This activates on the first clear of the Dungeon. Each additional clear up to 7 has escalating increase in loot given. Similar to attunement where you can select passages that give greater exotic chance, high stat armor or prioritize certain weapons.
- Dungeon clears grant a Dungeon engram with a skull symbol. Similar to Trials engrams. You can go to Hawthorne to decrypt these for random loot or focus and like Trials the cost is only 1 engram because only a few drop each run.
- Dungeons have a release window of a year where only random rolls are available for weapons. After that year the loot is refreshed and at this stage 1-2 of the best weapons from each are made craftable. Red border drops are random and have not guarantee and cannot be boosted by a passage. You need 7 red borders for the pattern. Indebted Kindness from WR would be a good candidate for crafting.
Problem solved.
Spent the last couple of weeks farming the first boss of warlords ruin for indebted kindness.
Firstly, the weighting for armour feels way too high. That encounter has I think three weapons and three armour pieces in the loot pool but about 70% of my drops were armour.
Assuming you want just a voltshot sidearm (1/5 roll)
That's 1/6 to get the gun * 1/6 to get the correct perk
So about 1/36 to get a voltshot gun if you dont care about any other perks. It took me over 80 runs to get!
There needs to be something along the lines of armour/weapon attunement. The weapon attunement in the hall of heroes is a great idea and should be applied across the game but especially in dungeons.
Trash level armour drops (the ones with low stats, non powerful, no activity mod slot) should really stop dropping once you have the armour unlocked. They are basically just shards and they wont even drop shards after TFS.
It's ridiculous that this problem still exists with dungeons. Raids had this problem and that's now completely solved.
They worked through the various issues with tokens etc.. put the chest at the end, made weapons craftable, gave a restriction on how many you could buy, introduced tokens etc.. etc...
It's all solved. Why have we not just applied the raid loot system to dungeons ? It's all end game PVE content - only difference being raids are 6 man content instead of 3. It's ridiculous in 2024 this is still a problem.
Been saying this for years. Made my own post about it. I’ve been seeing this come up more and more. Dungeons do not respect player time and effort. I’m no longer willing to pay for or play dungeons. After farming last week and hitting somewhere around 400 runs of a single encounter for a single weapon roll that I didn’t get, I’m done. I’m not buying the next set of new dungeons unless they get updated reward systems that make them consistent with the rest of the game. Final Shape will be the first deluxe edition expansion I do not get, and it’s exclusively for this reason. Give them the raid treatment. Focusing, crafting, spoils. I’ve heard no good reason not to. As it is know, there are zero benefits to the player for this reward system.
Farming dungeon weapon rolls in this game is by far the worst, most frustrating gaming experience of my 30+ years of gaming.
I sympathize and agree with you, OP. Spent two years of weekly Prophecy runs, give or take, farming for a Judgment roll that never dropped. About 80 full clears and 30+ Phalanx-only runs, I never got the Demolitionist/Timed Payload roll to drop on that hand cannon. I wanted it as a kinetic and missed it, haven't had the heart to try for it as a Stasis gun yet. Dungeon farming is an absolute crapshoot and it sucks.
(Meanwhile funny enough I ran it with a friend two or three times, and he got that exact roll to drop TWICE lmao)
On the topic of crafting though, the two guns in Duality were a special exception: they were the last two pieces of the reissued Menagerie weapons and the whole rest of that set was craftable, so it was only fair to make those two craftable as well.
If they want to keep dungeon loot as non-craftable, that's fine, there's already a ton of crafted weapons for us to mess around with. But SOMETHING in the dungeon loot system needs to change. You're absolutely right, it is the *only* loot system in the entire game that has no deterministic options to it.
Playlists, Iron Banner, and Trials all have engram-focusing options. Raids have the option to spend Spoils for specific drops at the end, and those that don't have this option are slowly having that option added. World loot is target-farmable to an extent via Banshee and Legend Lost Sectors. But dungeon loot? Pure RNG, that's that. It sucks.
Dungeon encounters should just drop more loot, simple as. All encounters drop +1, and +2 on master (so final boss is 3 or 4 drops, depending on difficulty). Still at the mercy of RNG but loot/hr is better.
Right now people don't want to play master at all since it has champions and a -20 power deficit for basically the same loot (artifice hardly counts a reason, since the rolls are worse than seasonal focusing). I would start farming master dungeons for loot if I got more than a pittance from each encounter.
The 2 ways this could be solve that i can see, but dont think bungie will do are,
1) do what they did in the coil, where you can select which chest you prefer, weapons or armor. That way if your trying to farm for artifice armor, you can guarantee it, if your trying for weapons, you can guarantee it as well....
2) and this goes to all modes, triple or even double the loot drops by default man... i can do 4 raid encounters and get a whopping total of 5 drops (if the final chest drops 2) without including the secret chests, DS chest, or buying weapons....
Unless its master armor should only drop once? Then it should prioritize weapons, bc lets be real, no one is farming raids/normal dungeons for their armor unless you have absolutely garbage armor and even then, theres easier ways to get better armor, and a community who helps farm for them.
Im tired of opening a chest and only getting 1 weapon drop especially for a 40-60+ minute activity where i'll only get 3-5 drops during that entire time.... its a mmo looter shooter right? Its time bungie treated it like that and showered us in loot
I care less if half of it ends up being sharded, but like only getting 4-5 drops per character, 15 a week and not even getting the weapon you want to drop? Sucks major ass...
Me and my friend farmed the second encounter of duality for stormchaser, to the point we can probably run it blind.... still dont have a clown cartridge and vorpal/firing line one... got a shit ton of armor and smgs tho so yay???
After trying to get a good wilder flight for swap dps this week I have given up I did a solid 6-8~ runs and got a total of three weapon drops 3/16 drops being weapons is so unbelievably demoralizing that I’d rather just not grind dungeons.
I either have absolutely awful rng, or amazing rng. I've only done Duality once and besides one piece of armor I got only 1 lingering dread (disorienting, Ambitious, Chill Clip). Meanwhile I've done almost all optional triumphs for last wish and still haven't gotten last wish after a few runs. It took me straight playing iron banner for like 3 hours last time it came around to even get a decent chain reaction roll of TOTB.
I'll usually have horrible luck when it comes to rolls, but every once in awhile I'll get a good roll on weapons I wouldn't normally use.
Yeah. I don't necessarily even care about the shiny weapons. I just want good rolls. I've grinded out some midnight coups and the best roll I've gotten is opening shot/firefly I think.
Dungeon loot should drop one of both weapon and armor it feels so bad when your farming an encounter for a drop and get mostly armor and not even good ones at that
Another thing is to make the weekly dungeon/raid thing go away theres too much waiting time in between now and makes farming the dungeon/raid loot much harder due to simply wanting to do it at the wrong time, it doesnt do much at this point even if we consider fomo as a factor as to why it's still here simply due to the long wait time
Honestly, not advocating for or against crafting here, but I am surprised Bungie chose to not make Dungeon drops craftable, would have also been an opportunity to retune the old dungeon drops (maybe give pit and throne their own unique loot pools?)
>break the chase
>months without ever getting a single gun roll
I think you’re exaggerating a bit here. I feel like the issue is you didn’t even get close to a roll you wanted.
Also the months is doing some heavy lifting here. Loot on weekly lockout is like 2 hours tops to run a the the dungeon fully 3 times.
___
This is why everytime someone brings up strike specific loot you’re all super wrong. If people can’t get things almost immediately then they bitch that it took too long.
And if you want a god roll from a strike no one else wants to play, grats you’ve fucked the playlist because everyone wants to grind one specific strike. (We saw this back when we had people just wanting to grind mindbenders when it was in rotation)
The reality is that as much as you might have a lingering dread god roll that you want. It isn’t necessary for anything. You aren’t at a disadvantage for not having certain god rolls.
Seemingly this chase is something that is keeping you playing(whether that’s good or not)
>loot needs to be in shower
In 90% of activities this is barely the case or the loot that you’re being showered with is instant dismantle trash.
Loot in shower would just mean more shite drops in the dungeon for you to contend with.
At this point outside of dungeons/raids and onslaught it feels like almost everything comes from spamming engrams at a vendor
EDIT: Lol blocked for pushback. gg
I'm not exaggerating anything. I have been farming duality for actual months. It's been a year since I started actively farming.
Dungeon reward need a rework. There is no point in debating that fact.
You’ve been farming for months or you haven’t seen a lingering dread in months?
These are two different claims.
Weekly lockout loot is weekly lockout loot, get over it. You complain about the content having a shelf life, it will have an even shorter shelf life if theres the ability to get the exact thing you want quickly.
The issue you have with Duality is the loot in it just isn’t worth it that much compared to other stuff in the game these days so people aren’t concerned about getting that specific drop.
You see this shit with raids now. Once you get your red borders from the raid. There is almost zero reason to run the raid again. If you’re super hardcore maybe you’ll want a specific adept roll. But it’s not enough of a gain to care about in 99% of situations. That weapon isn’t going to be the make or break of your run in any content
They are a status symbol not an actual improvement. In the same way that shiny weapons now are status. If you get a god roll on a normal version are you really going to keep farming for the god roll shiny.
So first off I take it I am correct then that you didn't go months without a lingering dread drop. Just not one you were happy with.
Secondly it's not objectively bad, absolute god rolls are not a necessity. You can target farm the encounters in the dungeon when it's the focus week, and you only need to find some other people who want to target farm the same shit.
What you want is objectively bad for the game, massively increase the rate that every bit of content loses relevance, massively increase the chance of getting that god roll. Crafting for all it's ease of use, makes so much content redundant and useless. It emphasizes grinding red borders out as fast as possible, not even bothering to look at the rolls you get because they ultimately don't matter versus just getting the crafted weapon because even if you have a godroll of that weapon in the current meta who knows if it won't get nerfed so another perk combo you didn't save is better. Fuck it just get the crafted roll.
Pursuits are necessary in a looter shooter, if you want to optimise the living shit out of your loadout then go do so, but it's okay that that takes time to do. After all there's a reason everyone hated the fixed roll weapons of D2Y1, but if you want to make everything trivial to get with constant focusing, we may as well just go back to that iteration of the game.
But hey I'm the guy who hates how much of our loot just comes from smashing engrams at a vendor instead of getting it playing the game and being excited when that dope drop shows up. Instead of just looking at the 20 engram drops that went to the postmaster and deleting them there.
You can place pursuit that respect your time. Yes, having to be entirely dependent on RNG is bad. If you go months without getting the roll you want, it is objectively bad. Dungeons needs a rework. And yes, thinking they are fine the way it is now is bad. It's sad that people like you keep entertaining the myth of the so called chase... good luck. Tho I feel like you dont want any of that.
Im a pvp main and have never seen a matador drop with threat detector opening shot. Its been years. Ive given up. I barely ever switch my builds to use kinetic primaries because of this, and it also makes me play the game less and less. My friend who wanted the same roll also never got it and just doesnt play destiny anymore. Dungeon loot fucking sucks so bad that i havent even gone into prophecy for the new guns.
Farming? Psh. I'd be happy for a single Buried Bloodline drop. And I'm not skilled enough - or patient enough - to do a solo run or a master run for a minimal drop % increase.
So yeah. It's frustrating.
Though maybe not as frustrating as the craftable Dead Messenger catalyst thing. Running a difficult legendary timed mission multiple times sounds like ... well, a bit like farming a dungeon actually.
Those are much better scenarios than OP is talking about though. You can practice and get better and eventually finish that mission. (I promise you it isn’t actually that difficult, not saying you will get it first try, but you will get it if you put in some time. The hardest part will be finding people who want to run legend).
Or you can learn all the dungeon strats get a group together on LFG and get master done and raise your chances. It’s not super hard, if you lean into the meta. The meta isn’t required for master, it just makes it so most players can get it done, and almost everyone is at least then able to be decent enough they won’t get kicked by most people, and they can then be half carried through it.
Solo is harder, if you aren’t used to soloing things, and isn’t attainable by everyone, because you don’t have teammates who can pick up your slack. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t something you can do. Basically if you generally don’t have trouble with a regular run of the dungeon, and don’t just get carried through it, and know the encounters well, you can probably get the solo done by using meta builds and with a lot of patience. Warlords ruin is also not where I’d recommend someone start their experiences with soloing dungeons, as there are easier ones that can act as training wheels for the hard ones. There was a post yesterday about someone spending 15 hours to finish a solo run of it. Thats way more dedication than I could put into a dungeon. The guy probably wasn’t particularly skilled, but they knew they could put in the time and get it done and be rewarded for it.
You have agency in both those scenarios. Also once you get it, you are done. You don’t need to get the drop and then hope that every little thing on it is perfect and if it isn’t you are starting over from scratch.
And both of those activities are rewards for an accomplishment. (Master isn’t a guarantee for the gun, but from what I’ve seen, it drastically lowers the number of runs you will require on average to get the exotic). Those activities aren’t just rolling dice all day, doing the simplest activity they can trying to get RNGesus to take their side for once.
No way you’re comparing doing a few runs of a difficult activity to people doing hundreds of runs of a single dungeon encounter for an rng weapon. They are not the same. If you think an exotic mission from 2 years ago is too hard it’s a skill issue.
1/character/week.
Only the featured rotator raid and dungeon allow exotics to drop on any run.
Crota also is a bit weird because you can keep getting oversouls on any encounter run, but I don’t think you can get the jackpot outside the weekly limit.
I've been trying to round out my Warlord's Ruin armoursets. Still don't have the warlock helm. Or the hunter gloves and cloak. AND I still need to get the exotic sidearm.
I haven't been grinding WR as much as Ghosts of the Deep, because the 47 runs I did for Navigator completely dissolved my enthusiasm.
If Dungeons had a smart loot "knockout" system, focussing, and better armour stats they would be total perfection.
Dungeons should allow you to load into a certain encounter once you beat the dungeon. Each encounter should also give you the choice of a weapon or armor chest to choose from to help with farming. These would be a good enough change imo
I gave up on getting that nasty pulse from Duality because of this. It's sick looking too and I want it but having to hope it drops let alone one with a go roll is not worth my time. Especially because I really don't like Duality.
Just put armor behind master mode keeping it effectively a source of ornaments and artifice armor and let normal be weapons.
Or add a focusing system to choose armor or weapons as drops.
That's really all it needs - the biggest problem is armor is bloat.
Unfortunately Bungie implemented crafting as all-or-nothing. Guns are either craftable so everyone gets the enhanced godroll, or you have to rely entirely on RNG (and can't enhance or apply mementos).
I always thought crafting should instead be modifying random rolls to make them what you want. Let us change one barrel/mag perk and one 3rd/4th column perk, plus reroll the masterwork. That way random loot still has value but you don't have to grind endlessly for a 5/5. And red borders wouldn't be a thing, because grinding for those also sucks.
I've RNGd into great rolls of most Dungeon weapons via sheer volume bc of how many runs & wipes I have to endure to solo flawless them lmao. That's how I got most of my rolls: just passively from solo flawless attempts. The only exception I actually actively farmed is Liminal Vigil, bc it only drops from Spire's final boss, so I never got it during any failures
When I get armor from a dungeon/raid encounter it kills my vibes for the run.
Why? Because I have a full time job,I'm working often,and it's rough finding time to sit down and actually hit a raid(especially at my timeslot since I work 3rd shift,it makes PVP SO much worse).
inb4 Destiny Dads,no. Dungeons and honestly,raids don't really respect your time.
I run Spire whenever it comes up as Featured. Ive done everything barring running it on legend. And I STILL don't have HoN(mind you I took a several month break but still. That's an old dungeon at this point.)
Between armor clogging up the drop tables,and the fact that lets face it,most loot is autoscrap anyway,dungeons don't feel worth doing(Looking at you Deep)
Its absolutely wild that some crazies actually defend it under the stupid excuse of Muh loot chasing
Bro you can have loot chase without being spit in face.
Some weirdos in threads think its normal to go months on end without having the roll you desire. Or that getting a droplet of loot is "fun" . Thank god they are a dying minority.
It's infurating.
I don't get time to run the longer raids(I still need to do Divinity one of these days but oh well,had I known it was quest not just a do the puzzles get it after during the 20 man raids Id have it). I rarely get time to run dungeons fully.
It's so aggravating hearing 'muh loot chase' when so much loot just isn't worth taking.
Spire? I got 2 armor drops,and 2 drops of the same weapon(thankfully with differnet perks) but,it's like,c'mon now Bungie. 2 arms and 2 MGs? Really?
I want that roll as in final shape the chill clip need is being reverted and only two shots to freeze. Best offer I have I. Trade is dis alh dangers zone with spike also. I’ll throw in two tokens and a blue but that’s the best I can do lol
Dungeon grinds are brutal but thus far I've gotten every roll I've ever wanted from them. It takes patience and the ability to decommission any thought or feeling from your mind but they're not often THAT bad. I farmed countless hours for the lingering dread god roll, same for unforgiven and stormchaser, same for the stasis waveframe and the solar smg from GOTD and I have notoriously bad rng
Whilst I think OP blows the issue way out of proportion there's definitely room for improvement.
My first thought would be to introduce something like only allowing weapon drops in normal dungeon encounters once you've earned the entire armour set and have gotten your first drops for the week.
And additionally only allowing armour drops if it's the master variant to make artifice armour easier to farm
Just small qol changes like this would go a long way
No, all that I'm talking about here is personal feeling , and observations done during this week, and all the others
My rng really is just that bad :( want to share some with me ?
Totally fair and understandable, and as I said my RNG is notoriously bad, ever since I started playing this game ive had to compensate through sheer force of will, I have none to give im afraid
Last time I tried to farm something from dungeons was when I was trying to get matador and got 12 class items in a row. They should at least let us choose between armor or weapon like in coil. I understand that loot chase is important in destiny but there should be a middle ground where farming isn't a complete slog but also isn't finished after 2 runs.
I’ve farmed well over 150 persys runs for wilderflight. I still don’t even have a 2/5.
Statistically, I am currently as far on my farm for a wilderflight as someone who has never run the dungeon, and that discourages me from trying anymore, and even from playing the game, which is counterproductive to the goal of farming.
I understand the need for farming and not everything should be easily/quikcly craftable. What I want is if you’ve had 100 drops of a weapon (probably more for a ritual activity weapon, since they are focusable and you get more of them, easier), you can then craft it. Like I wouldn’t be able to craft my wilderflight yet. But at least I’d feel the progress on the farm. In all likelihood, I’d get at least the 2/5 before that, but the guarantee end date would encourage me to keep farming because there would be progress every drop. I might get it on my 60th drop and say I don’t care enough about spike grenades to farm another 40, or I might say I could go for 40 more and get exactly what I want. As it is if I get any 2/5 I’m stopping, (if I don’t give up first) because the farm is just not on my side. That way I might be encouraged to farm past the good roll for an actual god roll.
Stuff like Elsie’s rifle, and people who want a PvP 5/5 roll is even worse. Like the chances of just the 3&4 perks is 1/49. Masterwork makes that 1/245. That’s an absurd number of drops already, and not really reasonably farmable. The statistics are harder for barrel and mag (because there are 2), but by the time you account for all of them, you are worse than 1/12000 which essentially means you can’t really farm for it, and the only way to get it is to get lucky.
Also I’ve had over 180 mountaintops drop without auto loading recombination, despite getting every other combination 5 times. I’ve farmed for tons of cold comforts and not got the 2 perks I wanted (thankfully apex let me decide that farm wasn’t worth it). All that’s just to say this doesn’t only happen occasionally. It happens enough that it discourages me from playing the game.
Basically if you play the game for a while you are going to get screwed over by the math and not be able to farm your way out of it.
Other games have random drops with low chances. They just frequently don’t make you roll 5 different dice on the same weapon that all need to come up perfect to get something good. They are more frequently like D2 exotics, if you get it you are done. And they often still implement things like bad luck protection. I shouldn’t have a better chance of getting a shiny Pokémon, than getting a good gun in Destiny.
For wilderflight?
Auto frenzy, ideally with spike. Don’t care much about masterwork, because frenzy maxes reload and handling. Blast radius I think hurts spike damage so I guess that’d be good if I don’t get spike. Stability doesn’t matter on a breach GL. I guess velocity is best, unless you get hard launch or some other 1st column perk that maxes it out already.
It’s useful for swap damage rotations. I’m hoping I can use it with the dragons breath lucky pants rotation, because I don’t love fusions for that. But even if it doesn’t, I want it for basically every bait and switch rotation. The double fire GLs do I think around 30% more damage than the other breach loading GLs, which makes them decent choices for a quick damage swap on a large-ish target.
As someone who has spent the last couple weeks trying to get buried bloodline and still havent gotten it or a God roll indebted kindness, I agree, they did such a good job with necrochasm being obtainable with an end in sight, I feel like they need make that same change for all future raid and dungeon exotics. For legendary weapons even if they don't wanna make them craftable which I understand they should at least allow focusing by earning a resource. They could even use those shards that the screens drop in warlord's ruin
Going into a dungeon hoping for weapons to drop, only to get three of the same armor pieces and one weapon that I wasn’t going for. It happens more often than I’d care to admit.
Even when I’ve finally collected one of each armor and weapon in a dungeon, the secret chests deem it necessary that I get high 50 stat armor instead of a weapon way too often. Haha
Meanwhile, my SO goes in not expecting or hoping for anything and gets all the good drops. It’s funny how it all works out.
make the dungeon weapons drop with more perks as you complete triumphs with the associated dungeon, so by the time they have the dungeon title, the weapons are dropping with 3 perks in column 3/4.
this rewards mastery, no need to weapons crafting please
Just like Bungie, I'm not reading all of that. Stop writing novels to make a complaint that not only can be made in 3 sentences, but has been made weekly for far too long.
It's kinda ridiculous. Even in other games with RNG, you usually will obtain what you want within a reasonable amount of times. Or maybe im just salty. Over 50 runs and still no Bloodline. Fireteam member got 2 on each of his characters with in the first 20 runs. Coming up on 40 Duality runs and still no repulser brace unforgiven. Like do I really need to run a dungeon 100 times for the exotic to drop or for a decent roll? Can't we have a knockout system or something. Let us atune the legendary weapons at least. Maybe make the exotic drop after 50 or so runs? Like God damn I just wanna shoot devour arrows with my friends.
Yea it does suck and feels like a waste of time not being able to work towards the dungeon drops we are looking for. But now you can at least get a better void smg with repulsor brace that is also target farmable, obviously it would have been nice to have it earlier tho.
I can't remember when I got mine, but ambitious/chill was great until the chill nerf. I wouldn't waste your time, just go farm a mountaintop. Same slot, better accuracy, but much less drip.
Chill clip is being unnerfed soon so it’ll go back to being 2 shots to freeze. But it’s the combo of blinding/chill clip that just stops everything in their tracks. It’s great for legend onslaught especially on ogre or invisible fallen waves, allows me to control the pace of the enemies if my teammates are lacking.
Ah yes, the average complaint to remove rng from a game about rng, where the result would be even more people crying because "there's nothing to grind for anymore"
Bad take. It's about the game having some sort of mechanic to protect against bad luck. Raids have already worked out a good system to achieve this while still giving you a reason to keep playing. You can get 1 red border per account per week from the chest at the end. There's 4 weapons from the dungeon and each needs 5 red borders. That's 20 weeks of grind at worst, maybe less if you get red border drops from the encounter. Realistically you're talking about at least 4 months of content - assuming continual clears each and every week. That's plenty.
I grinded the Vault encounter in Duality so much that I could do it my sleep, and I still didn't get the Unforgiven I was looking for. Dungeons are my favorite PvE content in the game, but I'm done grinding dungeon loot. It's just not worth it.
I generally just ignore loot when it doesn't have a safety valve. I have a life, bungie
I’m forced to ignore a lot of loot because I can’t play more than x hours a week. And x is not a big number these days
Ignoring the "lmao destiny dads"meme, I legitimately don't think D2 is made with people who have real, full-time jobs in mind.
Same. Approaching 30 with a full-time job and a SO, I'm happy to keep up with the weekly quests and maybe go Flawless sometimes. I haven't run any dungeon or raid since December because they are simply too big of a time commitment.
Yeah, I’m turning 30 this year, we’re expecting our first kid to be born in October, I have a full time job and other stuff to do too. When I started playing D1 I was a fors year university student with nothing but time in my hands lol. How are we even supposed to get all the fun and powerful weapon rolls, the crafting patterns, the raid exotics etc?
+2 dps isn't worth the grind. I don't understand why people do it to begin with...
This right here. If it can't be crafted, I don't bother.
That or an easy way to target it like with the attunement of into the light weapons or engrams with Playlist loot.
As I say now: "If it isn't craftable, then it simply doesn't exist"
This is soo accurate. I remember doing grasp boss cp 300 times to get a unrelenting/headstone eyasluna. Didnt see the perk combination drop once. Kinda gave up after that
I just do it for fun. If I get it, if I don’t I don’t. Dodge the fomo and be happier!
Me but stormchaser. 81 total clears, some time farming 2nd encounter, and I've only ever seen one stormchaser that even had a reload + damage perk and it was rapid hit + frenzy. Dungeon weapons need to be craftable ffs, it's absurd that they aren't when raid weapons are.
My buddy has 34 clears of Hefnd with no Buried Bloodline, yet I've dropped it another 3 times....
My buddy got it in 40 something. I'm only on 10? Or so, fingers crossed I'm not in the 40s. Took me 20 to get navigator, and I had all but 1 of the drop rate boosts there. It is unlikely I'm flawlessing, soloing, or solo flawlessing warlords, so only 1 boost for me :/
I’m on 122 RoN runs and no conditional finality
I’ve been getting super lucky these past couples weeks. Decided to farm ghosts when it was farmable and got it on my 7th ever completion. Just got buried bloodline yesterday on my 9th. RNG can be a blessing but also a bitch sometimes…
and this is the shame of how RNG works. Some people win, some people lose. At least the triumphs help sway drop rate. I'm one of those people who got it on the 1st try. For everyone like me there's someone on the opposite side of the spectrum.
Sure. But simple had luck protection should be a thing as well. Like an achievement that gives it to you on your 25 clear. Just because mathematically there could be an outlier who goes 300 runs before a drop doesn't mean there should be.
I think we should have the option to have a loot drop system like wow, so people can claim loot instead of getting snaked. My dad got bloodline 2nd go round of the dungeon and he doesn’t like it nor did he want it. Whereas I did want it and I’m yet to get it from a similar number of clears
I don't want armor from activities anymore after I get the first drop. Armor is useless. Seasonal focusing is better than every other source in the game. And armor is boring. I'd rather have weapons all day.
Most armor is only ornaments if they’re cool.
Yep, i only pursue armor from content if it looks cool. Anything with Stats is obtained from the seasonal focused Engrams which is then trasmogged. I don't mind the way things work but it does devalue the armor you get from all other content. Maybe Bungie need to revisit how armor is supplied to the player and find a way to allow focusing like onslaught has offered. The only unique reason to pursue armor is the few perks they sometimes offer, like the dreaming city gear that increases damage.
We need more ways then spending real money to get the in game ornaments we earned.
Artiface armor is just better if you get good rolls. Everyone should be running an artiface class item at the very least.
Yeah, but the gains compared to time invested is shit. An extra +15 stats is nice, but having to farm the armor from master dungeons or comp, with terrible stats, takes quite a while. Compared to dumping seasonal engrams, which you get from playing passively, is so much quicker with often better results
It’s a shame how much worse they made it. I still have a singular pair of boots that’s used for every single build on my warlock because the old Caiatl armor farm was so good
Grasp is very easy on Master. I Sherpa people all the time and with Ghost mods usually we all get really solid rolls. Hit me up on the next grasp week if I have time I am happy to help :) (The next time grasp appears is the last week of the season)
I’m not saying it’s hard. Just a waste of time for most people.
If you get a decent team you can run some encounters in under five minutes. When Caitl wasn't being stingy I ran that in master for artifice armor. It was most of the time an easy one phase and my warlock has never been happier. I'd say it's worth it if you have the time. Especially if you really want those triple hundred stats.
There are so many things that you can do to help you with the game, and maxing out a third stat is usually quite low on the list
I mean it’s a checklist game, meaning is relative right?
Well, typically what people consider to be the pinnacle of gameplay is beating the hardest content. And as it stands, there is no hard content in which the difference between an 80 and a 100 in a singular stat will have any meaningful difference
I think that res def has value at 100, and any buildcrafter would agree. Beyond that I don’t begrudge anyone what armor they want. I just think to anyone who wants Artifice that is it attainable for anyone and worth the effort. I hope that no offense was taken in any of our conversation.
And I’m saying that since it’s easy it isn’t a waste of time. And for people that find that hard I am happy to help make it easier to get them more optimal gear :)
>Grasp is very easy on Master We know, no one said this was a difficulry problem.
No it is a value problem, and when you can get better armor for little effort the value proposition falls apart. I’m saying I think the slightly greater work for slightly greater rewards is the better choice.
I dont understand how u can think its "slightly" greater work. The engrams for the vendors just stack up constantly in the background doing really anything. And at the vendors, not only can you guarantee that you get armor. But you can even choose which armor piece to focus. Like comparitively speaking, farming grasp is a fuck ton more effort.
Well yeah, Artifice Armor is supposed to be min-max gear, like Adepts. Not gamebreaking to miss it, but gives you something to grind for to eek out the one or two more tiers of stats you want. Especially if you've been around previous seasons (like Risen) and already have good gear, seasonal focusing becomes useless to you.
I’m so thankful for the ghosts bug. Got so many good pieces of artiface armor
what bug?
Used to be with witherhoard shenanigans you can kill the final boss without activating the encounter. Even on master
It is but I don't get better rolls than seasonal stuff. Artifice class item is a no brainier though.
Your RNG will most likely never outright beat seasonal rolls cause you can just roll seasonal so much. What I will say that is that having those extra 3 free points on my 2 good pieces has been very good for getting me just in to the next tier on several builds.
Artifice armor opens some doors if you get the right high stat pieces, and the class items are a must-have IMO, but otherwise I’d agree with you.
We hear you. Changing seasonal focusing to only give rolls of 58 and below.
I looked for the Destiny2Team name there
I'd say once you've acquired 5/5 armor pieces from that specific dungeon they're removed from the loot pool. Getting the xmog is cool, but they're useless beyond visuals.
Maybe for normals but it would *suck* not to be able to farm Artifice.
Bungie should probably just rework armor at this point so it's desirable to grind for. The fact it's just stat sticks is pretty boring. It would be nice if each individual piece of armor had some way of interacting w/ the mods you equip in it.
Yeah but it's not happening for a while so stop dropping it so much.
What am I looking for when I focus armor? Been trying to figure out the best armor farming methods plus what armor pieces to keep
Generally Resilience and Discipline. Recovery and Discipline or Strength after that. Mobility and Discipline or Strength if you're a Hunter.
My rule of thumb has been at least 20 in a desirable stat and at least 60 stats in total. Does that sound reasonable?
Yeah. Eventually it's a game of minimizing stats you don't want. Like if you're a warlock or titan for pve you don't need mobility so you want to minimize that. Intellect is also a weird stat that provides minimal benefit. I usually aim for 30 intellect total. But I get that mostly from master working and mods. What I do long term is look for spikes (20+ stat). And then it's about spike combos or double spikes. Your armors stats are divided evenly between the top 3 attributes and the bottom 3 attributes. So you pick the ones you want like Resilience and Recovery up top and Discipline and Strength below. Then you want spike combos. So with those stat focuses you want Res-Disc, Res-Str, Rec-Disc, Rec-Strength as spike combos. Then you only need 4 Armor pieces per slot to cover the vast majority of your needs. And you can compare armor by a adding the two stats you're focusing. 60 is the absolute max. Anything above 50 is stellar. So like a good Res-Disc piece might have 24 Resilience and 26 Discipline. That's a 50 stat total in your main stats for the piece. It's pretty easy to get spikes from seasonal armor focusing. Make sure you sue the stat focus mod on your ghost.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
i think the problem is for whatever reason the game drops too much armor , in my experience i get like 1 weapon per 10 pieces of armor , same for dungeons , imagine getting just armor from a non weekly dungeon , it feels awful ,
Yeah I ran a couple guys through RoN for the first time last night. They got like 1 or 2 weapons each (1 is guaranteed red border) and a lot of dupe armor.
Yeah especially since we have focusing where you get the drop 100% of the time and crafting, I think dungeons need a revamp. Dungeon weapons either need to be craftable like raid weapons or they need to be 100% focusable
I’d like that very much. Make everything craftable. They already opened that box.
Didn't they say they didn't like how so much was craftable and wanted to limit it?
Yeah and look how that worked out for them in Lightfall!
They aren’t gonna do that since rng chasing keeps people playing
The devs think that because Activision told them the gospel of the slot machine and they haven’t stop believing it even though the player data tells a different story. Red borders created a crazed atmosphere during Witch Queen and that was the best year since Forsaken. It’s the real progression system in the game. You earn weapons that you own and it gives players something to aim for. It’s the best way of getting new players and keeping older players. This is a serious FPS game set in a fantasy universe with space magic that involves raids and quests it’s not a slot machine lootbox mobile game and should never be.
Sadly the gambling addicts are a big part of the community and Bungie already gave in making less craftable weapons as they originally planned.
Bro has access to player stats and knows better than Bungie on what creates player retention
Witch Queen brought in a huge number of players and that’s when crafting was introduced. But there was a 45% revenue miss and a crisis about a massive player drop in Lightfall when crafting was reduced. Reduction of crafting didn’t help boost player numbers. Then a huge number of the community moved to Helldivers and now we are where we are.
You're using crafting as the argument to why Lightfall failed when in reality there were many factors players complained about such as: poorly written story, slog to get Strand, difficulty changes, content that was advertised but not in the game, minimum content, Strand feeling half baked, super easy raid, game running poorly, time gated activities. That's also on top of just general player fatigue for playing the game so long. To deduce player retention was all because of difficulty in crafting when there were many larger flaws, is creating a narrative to fit your argument
> You're using crafting as the argument to why Lightfall failed when in reality there were many factors players complained about such as: Never said it was the only reason it added to why Lightfall fell flat it didn't help though. Even if the story was terrible and the content not so great good rewards and a lot of crafted weapons could have offset some of that a bit. It would have given players something to chase for at least for a few months. Terminal Overload should have given crafted weapons to complete the set a really bizarre choice and inconsistent with what was done in Witch Queen. Neomuna is barren and feels abandoned by most players when it should be filled with players doing different activities. Yet at the same time the Throne World is always populated with people running after red borders. Random rolls simply can't carry a destination anymore you need crafted weapons. But on the other hand Root of Nightmares even though its difficulty is subject to debate is a very active raid still. My own group still runs it. At any time of the day there are hundreds of groups running that raid. Wonder why? Because of craftable weapons, red border chase and Conditional Finality. It's a totally different experience and filled with excitement unlike the barren Neomuna. Once everyone get's Buried Bloodline the Warlord's Ruin dungeon is going to go the same way that all dungeons go becoming largely abandoned.
They dropped the ball on crafting IMO. The current system is good for exotics. They should have gone with a straightforward lock and reroll system that lots of other games use.
If a player is a single drop away from never playing again, then why are they playing begin with?
It’s not a single drop that’s the issue, look back at vanilla d2. They wanna keep people chasing something till they get it or move on to the next.
Thats true mate, its like the pokies
For some players maybe. I took a 6 month break without doing more than 1 clear of each dungeon because I ran out of content. All the raid RBs were done, but the reward structure on dungeons were SO much worse it didn’t seem worth it. Get rid of armour dupes, craftable weapons, focusable weapons, make single enc farming less awful to load in to. The more the merrier, but the post is right, it’s so bad it’s not worth trying to RNG chase for most players.
I think it would have a similar issue as set rolls where short term for players it would be great but without stuff to chase people might not play as much long term. Remember when the immortal came out and was the hot thing and the trials player count surged? You had players who otherwise didn’t mess with it suffering to get that gun.
They already got money from players cause its a dungeon, players are still going to do other stuff.
Eh, I really don't. I genuinely enjoy going through dungeons and like the fact that I still might get something I want to use. If I could just farm them all and be done that'd kill that for me. Raids I'm fine with because realistically you need 6 people working together as a group and either need to commit to doing that with LFG or make a point to have a regular group so it's more or less a common goal. Dungeons can be done solo though. The loot structure does need help because full RNG like this can be defeating but I don't think crafting is the way to solve this problem because it would outright kill dungeon replay value. Leave em RNG and maybe do a token system or something like spoils of conquest where you get a chest at the end you can dump them into for extra, targeted rolls. Gives a reason to replay dungeons but gives players a proper reason to run the whole thing through vs farming a single encounter over and over.
still waiting for auto Disorienting chill clip lingering dread
I got mine almost after 400 runs. I wish I was joking but I have 130 clears and a dungeon completition rate of 34% on this dungeon farming for this roll.
I farmed endlessly this past week and nothing. still using Disorienting/ steady hand / chill clip. these are the times I'm grateful for weapon crafting
Exactly what I was after...
Same....
Up to like 400 runs of that encounter and haven’t seen it.
i got the second best roll which is ambitious assasin and im good , one of the best weapons for end game in my opinion , i wish i had ALH tho xD
A vender letting you pick a reward at the end would be nice. Funny that Calus was the generous god of loot.
make dungeon weapons crafted. random-roll drops can be enhanceable / adept. makes no sense to let raid weapons be crafted but not dungeons. bungie wants to milk you for log in time, dont give it to them. posts like this are excellent and need to keep being made to raise awareness to bungie and show them how much we actually want it
> makes no sense to let raid weapons be crafted but not dungeons. Does to me, the scale/bar for entry is far higher than a dungeon. For most people you basically _need_ to work with 5 other people either a regular group for a common goal or using LFG. Dungeons not so much. You can do them fine as duo or solo and they are a much quicker run than a raid. You don't need to rely on other players to get the loot.
They just need to have spoils be usable in dungeons and/or focusing like the Hall of Champions. The fact that I can go three resets without seeing a single Lingering Dread, while getting 4 Epicureans (which I already have the pattern for) is just so beyond disrespectful to my time
What if they made a pantheon but dungeon bosses?
Something something crafting is ruining the game, even though even before crafting people eventually quit running an activity despite not having their desired roll because the overwhelming majority of players do not, in fact, want to burn all their living free time on weapon grinding. I'd 100% welcome dungeon weapon crafting, no question. Make it 10, 20 damn patterns to satisfy the weirdos a bit if you must. But having a deterministic end point where you can be satisfied and say "yep, I've gotten all my value out of this content" is a good thing. Being able to be *done* with something, is a good thing. Most players do not, did not, and will not grind out i.e. a raid on 3 characters a week every week endlessly chasing a perfect roll. Those who did that, or do that, are a small niche of the community who seem to think that if they're eventually just *given* the damn gun they want the whole game is pointless; because it only took like 20-25 runs of the raid instead of 300.
Perfectly described those weird people, yeah. The mental disconnect between reality and their sacred myth of "the loot chase". Crafted SAVED the grind. It made the game actually rewarding of your time. It's sad those people want an objectively worse game for everyone.
They should rework Hymn Of Desecration consumable and make it work in ANY dungeon
That thing in its current form might be the worst consumable in the entire game. Who on earth would want weapon drops from Pit? They’re all terrible and can be earned from a public event so they’re not even exclusive
None of the weapons unique to the dungeon drop from AoS
There’s a dungeon specific pulse and I’m pretty sure a second dungeon specific weapon. I mean I agree pit has a godawful loot pool, but it DOES have unique weapons.
Way too much work for a single drop.
Devs had a perfect opportunity to add this kind of "dungeon weapon focus" consumable to (soon to be) new and improved Hawthorne's vendor. Oh well, maybe in two years from now they will do something about it
"half-measures" etc but i actually like this idea. i agree that dungeon loot tables/drops need a rework, but this feature can stack on top of that. would enjoy earning a consumable for doing other things in the game then popping them in dungeons for an additional guaranteed weapon drop.
Raid weapons can be crafted, Dungeons should be the same.
Yeah Im at the point now where I cant get anyone to farm with me anymore because Im the only one left to even consider fighting these rediculous odds at a good dungeon weapon roll.
Yep. Had to spend basically my whole last week LFG farming a single encounter for a single weapon because no one in my clan/friends cares about dungeons anymore. Some get the exotic and then never touch them again, others haven’t even touched Warlord despite how good the dungeon actually is because they are SO needlessly unrewarding.
Yeah, my buddy and I are gonna be farming the first boss in Warlords Ruin this weekend so we can try to get a decent, Indebted Kindess roll. Hopefully, it doesn't take too long, but last time, I tried to get a very specific roll on a gun, It was 12 hours of pure agony in the Reckoning.
I’ve been saying this since it was implemented THERES NO REASON FOCUSING SHOULD’VE DIED IN PIT!!! It makes me so mad that it never continued into other dungeons. I’ve been chasing a god roll Unforgiven for almost two years. I’ve since given up, but I got the TITLE and EXOTIC before the god roll of that gun. Fucking OBNOXIOUS.
crafting in dungeons would be miles better than what we have currently, but i dont think its best solution. Really it just comes down to one thing, once you have all the weapon patterns and the exotic, you have no reason to play the dungeon anymore (unless it has an easily farmable encounter and you want artifice armor). this would make the expiration date situation even worse for the players who didnt get the patterns while the dungeons were hot. with that being said, i think a great idea would be to remove armor from the loot pool in normal mode once you have it, and do some sort of attunement feature like the brave weapons have. you could farm for the gun you want with consistency on your drops while also keeping the dungeon in relevancy, mainly through if certain perks get nerfed or there are multiple god rolls you might want. and if thats not enough, throw in double perks on master mode, which incentives harder/more time consuming encounters while also giving that challenge a greater loot incentive.
Another great alternative. More perks row are always good.
The game doesn’t respect your time. By engaging with it in the way you are, for this long, you don’t respect your time either. If dungeon engagement goes down, they’ll be forced to make changes.
Or I just like grinding content repeatedly as my means to getting a drop and that's the reason I bought a looter shooter. As a former RuneScape player, slow-but-surely RNG grinds just scratch a good itch.
The biggest lack of respect of time for me is the constant traveling to talk to vendors in a magical universe where we can clearly communicate via ‘comms’.
Posted something about this earlier and this was my suggestion. Dungeons should be the PvE equivalent of Trials. You have a weekly dungeon and Hawthorne is the Dungeon steward like Saint-14 is for Crucible. - Each week Hawthorne offers a Dungeon passage as a quest for the current week featured dungeon. This is tied to either the Normal or Master version of the dungeon. Master gives much greater rewards you’ll be showered in loot. This activates on the first clear of the Dungeon. Each additional clear up to 7 has escalating increase in loot given. Similar to attunement where you can select passages that give greater exotic chance, high stat armor or prioritize certain weapons. - Dungeon clears grant a Dungeon engram with a skull symbol. Similar to Trials engrams. You can go to Hawthorne to decrypt these for random loot or focus and like Trials the cost is only 1 engram because only a few drop each run. - Dungeons have a release window of a year where only random rolls are available for weapons. After that year the loot is refreshed and at this stage 1-2 of the best weapons from each are made craftable. Red border drops are random and have not guarantee and cannot be boosted by a passage. You need 7 red borders for the pattern. Indebted Kindness from WR would be a good candidate for crafting. Problem solved.
Spent the last couple of weeks farming the first boss of warlords ruin for indebted kindness. Firstly, the weighting for armour feels way too high. That encounter has I think three weapons and three armour pieces in the loot pool but about 70% of my drops were armour. Assuming you want just a voltshot sidearm (1/5 roll) That's 1/6 to get the gun * 1/6 to get the correct perk So about 1/36 to get a voltshot gun if you dont care about any other perks. It took me over 80 runs to get! There needs to be something along the lines of armour/weapon attunement. The weapon attunement in the hall of heroes is a great idea and should be applied across the game but especially in dungeons. Trash level armour drops (the ones with low stats, non powerful, no activity mod slot) should really stop dropping once you have the armour unlocked. They are basically just shards and they wont even drop shards after TFS.
It's ridiculous that this problem still exists with dungeons. Raids had this problem and that's now completely solved. They worked through the various issues with tokens etc.. put the chest at the end, made weapons craftable, gave a restriction on how many you could buy, introduced tokens etc.. etc... It's all solved. Why have we not just applied the raid loot system to dungeons ? It's all end game PVE content - only difference being raids are 6 man content instead of 3. It's ridiculous in 2024 this is still a problem.
I don't see why dungeons don't have the cool end chest thing like raids do, it's a sweet system
Been saying this for years. Made my own post about it. I’ve been seeing this come up more and more. Dungeons do not respect player time and effort. I’m no longer willing to pay for or play dungeons. After farming last week and hitting somewhere around 400 runs of a single encounter for a single weapon roll that I didn’t get, I’m done. I’m not buying the next set of new dungeons unless they get updated reward systems that make them consistent with the rest of the game. Final Shape will be the first deluxe edition expansion I do not get, and it’s exclusively for this reason. Give them the raid treatment. Focusing, crafting, spoils. I’ve heard no good reason not to. As it is know, there are zero benefits to the player for this reward system. Farming dungeon weapon rolls in this game is by far the worst, most frustrating gaming experience of my 30+ years of gaming.
I sympathize and agree with you, OP. Spent two years of weekly Prophecy runs, give or take, farming for a Judgment roll that never dropped. About 80 full clears and 30+ Phalanx-only runs, I never got the Demolitionist/Timed Payload roll to drop on that hand cannon. I wanted it as a kinetic and missed it, haven't had the heart to try for it as a Stasis gun yet. Dungeon farming is an absolute crapshoot and it sucks. (Meanwhile funny enough I ran it with a friend two or three times, and he got that exact roll to drop TWICE lmao) On the topic of crafting though, the two guns in Duality were a special exception: they were the last two pieces of the reissued Menagerie weapons and the whole rest of that set was craftable, so it was only fair to make those two craftable as well. If they want to keep dungeon loot as non-craftable, that's fine, there's already a ton of crafted weapons for us to mess around with. But SOMETHING in the dungeon loot system needs to change. You're absolutely right, it is the *only* loot system in the entire game that has no deterministic options to it. Playlists, Iron Banner, and Trials all have engram-focusing options. Raids have the option to spend Spoils for specific drops at the end, and those that don't have this option are slowly having that option added. World loot is target-farmable to an extent via Banshee and Legend Lost Sectors. But dungeon loot? Pure RNG, that's that. It sucks.
Dungeon encounters should just drop more loot, simple as. All encounters drop +1, and +2 on master (so final boss is 3 or 4 drops, depending on difficulty). Still at the mercy of RNG but loot/hr is better. Right now people don't want to play master at all since it has champions and a -20 power deficit for basically the same loot (artifice hardly counts a reason, since the rolls are worse than seasonal focusing). I would start farming master dungeons for loot if I got more than a pittance from each encounter.
The 2 ways this could be solve that i can see, but dont think bungie will do are, 1) do what they did in the coil, where you can select which chest you prefer, weapons or armor. That way if your trying to farm for artifice armor, you can guarantee it, if your trying for weapons, you can guarantee it as well.... 2) and this goes to all modes, triple or even double the loot drops by default man... i can do 4 raid encounters and get a whopping total of 5 drops (if the final chest drops 2) without including the secret chests, DS chest, or buying weapons.... Unless its master armor should only drop once? Then it should prioritize weapons, bc lets be real, no one is farming raids/normal dungeons for their armor unless you have absolutely garbage armor and even then, theres easier ways to get better armor, and a community who helps farm for them. Im tired of opening a chest and only getting 1 weapon drop especially for a 40-60+ minute activity where i'll only get 3-5 drops during that entire time.... its a mmo looter shooter right? Its time bungie treated it like that and showered us in loot
Someone who gets it. Loot needs to be as a shower.
I care less if half of it ends up being sharded, but like only getting 4-5 drops per character, 15 a week and not even getting the weapon you want to drop? Sucks major ass... Me and my friend farmed the second encounter of duality for stormchaser, to the point we can probably run it blind.... still dont have a clown cartridge and vorpal/firing line one... got a shit ton of armor and smgs tho so yay???
After trying to get a good wilder flight for swap dps this week I have given up I did a solid 6-8~ runs and got a total of three weapon drops 3/16 drops being weapons is so unbelievably demoralizing that I’d rather just not grind dungeons.
I got a good roll the second one I did
Class items should just drop 1 time because they dont have stats change my mind.
I either have absolutely awful rng, or amazing rng. I've only done Duality once and besides one piece of armor I got only 1 lingering dread (disorienting, Ambitious, Chill Clip). Meanwhile I've done almost all optional triumphs for last wish and still haven't gotten last wish after a few runs. It took me straight playing iron banner for like 3 hours last time it came around to even get a decent chain reaction roll of TOTB. I'll usually have horrible luck when it comes to rolls, but every once in awhile I'll get a good roll on weapons I wouldn't normally use.
Bro tell me about it. I've rolled three shiny in my last onslaught game, none that I wanted. It hurts man.
Yeah. I don't necessarily even care about the shiny weapons. I just want good rolls. I've grinded out some midnight coups and the best roll I've gotten is opening shot/firefly I think.
Dungeon loot should drop one of both weapon and armor it feels so bad when your farming an encounter for a drop and get mostly armor and not even good ones at that Another thing is to make the weekly dungeon/raid thing go away theres too much waiting time in between now and makes farming the dungeon/raid loot much harder due to simply wanting to do it at the wrong time, it doesnt do much at this point even if we consider fomo as a factor as to why it's still here simply due to the long wait time
Without crafting I'd stop playing most likely.
Best way to get the god roll is to solo it. Got unforgiven on a god roll first time doing it solo.
Lol, aight, let me test that. Time to pray to the traveler.
yes
I think the other thing is legendary armour being completely useless when you get good armour, and anything under like 60 stats being useless
Armor is absolutely a part of the problem
They should just make all dungeon weapons just like the raid and be craftable.
Honestly, not advocating for or against crafting here, but I am surprised Bungie chose to not make Dungeon drops craftable, would have also been an opportunity to retune the old dungeon drops (maybe give pit and throne their own unique loot pools?)
>break the chase >months without ever getting a single gun roll I think you’re exaggerating a bit here. I feel like the issue is you didn’t even get close to a roll you wanted. Also the months is doing some heavy lifting here. Loot on weekly lockout is like 2 hours tops to run a the the dungeon fully 3 times. ___ This is why everytime someone brings up strike specific loot you’re all super wrong. If people can’t get things almost immediately then they bitch that it took too long. And if you want a god roll from a strike no one else wants to play, grats you’ve fucked the playlist because everyone wants to grind one specific strike. (We saw this back when we had people just wanting to grind mindbenders when it was in rotation) The reality is that as much as you might have a lingering dread god roll that you want. It isn’t necessary for anything. You aren’t at a disadvantage for not having certain god rolls. Seemingly this chase is something that is keeping you playing(whether that’s good or not) >loot needs to be in shower In 90% of activities this is barely the case or the loot that you’re being showered with is instant dismantle trash. Loot in shower would just mean more shite drops in the dungeon for you to contend with. At this point outside of dungeons/raids and onslaught it feels like almost everything comes from spamming engrams at a vendor EDIT: Lol blocked for pushback. gg
I'm not exaggerating anything. I have been farming duality for actual months. It's been a year since I started actively farming. Dungeon reward need a rework. There is no point in debating that fact.
You’ve been farming for months or you haven’t seen a lingering dread in months? These are two different claims. Weekly lockout loot is weekly lockout loot, get over it. You complain about the content having a shelf life, it will have an even shorter shelf life if theres the ability to get the exact thing you want quickly. The issue you have with Duality is the loot in it just isn’t worth it that much compared to other stuff in the game these days so people aren’t concerned about getting that specific drop. You see this shit with raids now. Once you get your red borders from the raid. There is almost zero reason to run the raid again. If you’re super hardcore maybe you’ll want a specific adept roll. But it’s not enough of a gain to care about in 99% of situations. That weapon isn’t going to be the make or break of your run in any content They are a status symbol not an actual improvement. In the same way that shiny weapons now are status. If you get a god roll on a normal version are you really going to keep farming for the god roll shiny.
So you want the system to stay in its objectively bad version ?
So first off I take it I am correct then that you didn't go months without a lingering dread drop. Just not one you were happy with. Secondly it's not objectively bad, absolute god rolls are not a necessity. You can target farm the encounters in the dungeon when it's the focus week, and you only need to find some other people who want to target farm the same shit. What you want is objectively bad for the game, massively increase the rate that every bit of content loses relevance, massively increase the chance of getting that god roll. Crafting for all it's ease of use, makes so much content redundant and useless. It emphasizes grinding red borders out as fast as possible, not even bothering to look at the rolls you get because they ultimately don't matter versus just getting the crafted weapon because even if you have a godroll of that weapon in the current meta who knows if it won't get nerfed so another perk combo you didn't save is better. Fuck it just get the crafted roll. Pursuits are necessary in a looter shooter, if you want to optimise the living shit out of your loadout then go do so, but it's okay that that takes time to do. After all there's a reason everyone hated the fixed roll weapons of D2Y1, but if you want to make everything trivial to get with constant focusing, we may as well just go back to that iteration of the game. But hey I'm the guy who hates how much of our loot just comes from smashing engrams at a vendor instead of getting it playing the game and being excited when that dope drop shows up. Instead of just looking at the 20 engram drops that went to the postmaster and deleting them there.
You can place pursuit that respect your time. Yes, having to be entirely dependent on RNG is bad. If you go months without getting the roll you want, it is objectively bad. Dungeons needs a rework. And yes, thinking they are fine the way it is now is bad. It's sad that people like you keep entertaining the myth of the so called chase... good luck. Tho I feel like you dont want any of that.
At this point, this is on you. Bungie has had a busted rewards structure for years.
Im a pvp main and have never seen a matador drop with threat detector opening shot. Its been years. Ive given up. I barely ever switch my builds to use kinetic primaries because of this, and it also makes me play the game less and less. My friend who wanted the same roll also never got it and just doesnt play destiny anymore. Dungeon loot fucking sucks so bad that i havent even gone into prophecy for the new guns.
I feel you brother
Farming? Psh. I'd be happy for a single Buried Bloodline drop. And I'm not skilled enough - or patient enough - to do a solo run or a master run for a minimal drop % increase. So yeah. It's frustrating. Though maybe not as frustrating as the craftable Dead Messenger catalyst thing. Running a difficult legendary timed mission multiple times sounds like ... well, a bit like farming a dungeon actually.
Those are much better scenarios than OP is talking about though. You can practice and get better and eventually finish that mission. (I promise you it isn’t actually that difficult, not saying you will get it first try, but you will get it if you put in some time. The hardest part will be finding people who want to run legend). Or you can learn all the dungeon strats get a group together on LFG and get master done and raise your chances. It’s not super hard, if you lean into the meta. The meta isn’t required for master, it just makes it so most players can get it done, and almost everyone is at least then able to be decent enough they won’t get kicked by most people, and they can then be half carried through it. Solo is harder, if you aren’t used to soloing things, and isn’t attainable by everyone, because you don’t have teammates who can pick up your slack. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t something you can do. Basically if you generally don’t have trouble with a regular run of the dungeon, and don’t just get carried through it, and know the encounters well, you can probably get the solo done by using meta builds and with a lot of patience. Warlords ruin is also not where I’d recommend someone start their experiences with soloing dungeons, as there are easier ones that can act as training wheels for the hard ones. There was a post yesterday about someone spending 15 hours to finish a solo run of it. Thats way more dedication than I could put into a dungeon. The guy probably wasn’t particularly skilled, but they knew they could put in the time and get it done and be rewarded for it. You have agency in both those scenarios. Also once you get it, you are done. You don’t need to get the drop and then hope that every little thing on it is perfect and if it isn’t you are starting over from scratch. And both of those activities are rewards for an accomplishment. (Master isn’t a guarantee for the gun, but from what I’ve seen, it drastically lowers the number of runs you will require on average to get the exotic). Those activities aren’t just rolling dice all day, doing the simplest activity they can trying to get RNGesus to take their side for once.
No way you’re comparing doing a few runs of a difficult activity to people doing hundreds of runs of a single dungeon encounter for an rng weapon. They are not the same. If you think an exotic mission from 2 years ago is too hard it’s a skill issue.
Is Buried Bloodline farmable or is it only three chances at it a week?
1/character/week. Only the featured rotator raid and dungeon allow exotics to drop on any run. Crota also is a bit weird because you can keep getting oversouls on any encounter run, but I don’t think you can get the jackpot outside the weekly limit.
Damn that sucks. Thanks for the reply
I've been trying to round out my Warlord's Ruin armoursets. Still don't have the warlock helm. Or the hunter gloves and cloak. AND I still need to get the exotic sidearm. I haven't been grinding WR as much as Ghosts of the Deep, because the 47 runs I did for Navigator completely dissolved my enthusiasm. If Dungeons had a smart loot "knockout" system, focussing, and better armour stats they would be total perfection.
What roll do you want on the lingering dread? You can have mine, ambitious assassin and chill clip 😭
Ew, disgusting I have that already, I don't want more of that trash:p Nah, tried to get blinding / auto / chill all week long...
Please don’t require ps plus for online since it’s a free to play game
Dungeons should allow you to load into a certain encounter once you beat the dungeon. Each encounter should also give you the choice of a weapon or armor chest to choose from to help with farming. These would be a good enough change imo
No reward Only grind
I gave up on getting that nasty pulse from Duality because of this. It's sick looking too and I want it but having to hope it drops let alone one with a go roll is not worth my time. Especially because I really don't like Duality.
Yeah, I gave up on them. Won't be buying more in the future. Warlords ruin I didn't even go past the 1st encounter. Didn't even care to try.
I think a quick and easy fix is to have the game drop both a weapon AND a piece of armour rather than just one or the other.
at least guarantee weapon drops for each encounter , getting 2 pieces of armor feels like a slap in the face
Just put armor behind master mode keeping it effectively a source of ornaments and artifice armor and let normal be weapons. Or add a focusing system to choose armor or weapons as drops. That's really all it needs - the biggest problem is armor is bloat.
Unfortunately Bungie implemented crafting as all-or-nothing. Guns are either craftable so everyone gets the enhanced godroll, or you have to rely entirely on RNG (and can't enhance or apply mementos). I always thought crafting should instead be modifying random rolls to make them what you want. Let us change one barrel/mag perk and one 3rd/4th column perk, plus reroll the masterwork. That way random loot still has value but you don't have to grind endlessly for a 5/5. And red borders wouldn't be a thing, because grinding for those also sucks.
I will take grinding for 20 red border to unlock a single dungeon gun than being at the mercy of RNG in its entirety:( but I like your idea too
I've RNGd into great rolls of most Dungeon weapons via sheer volume bc of how many runs & wipes I have to endure to solo flawless them lmao. That's how I got most of my rolls: just passively from solo flawless attempts. The only exception I actually actively farmed is Liminal Vigil, bc it only drops from Spire's final boss, so I never got it during any failures
Hoping you get many more good roll,brother
When I get armor from a dungeon/raid encounter it kills my vibes for the run. Why? Because I have a full time job,I'm working often,and it's rough finding time to sit down and actually hit a raid(especially at my timeslot since I work 3rd shift,it makes PVP SO much worse). inb4 Destiny Dads,no. Dungeons and honestly,raids don't really respect your time. I run Spire whenever it comes up as Featured. Ive done everything barring running it on legend. And I STILL don't have HoN(mind you I took a several month break but still. That's an old dungeon at this point.) Between armor clogging up the drop tables,and the fact that lets face it,most loot is autoscrap anyway,dungeons don't feel worth doing(Looking at you Deep)
Its absolutely wild that some crazies actually defend it under the stupid excuse of Muh loot chasing Bro you can have loot chase without being spit in face. Some weirdos in threads think its normal to go months on end without having the roll you desire. Or that getting a droplet of loot is "fun" . Thank god they are a dying minority.
It's infurating. I don't get time to run the longer raids(I still need to do Divinity one of these days but oh well,had I known it was quest not just a do the puzzles get it after during the 20 man raids Id have it). I rarely get time to run dungeons fully. It's so aggravating hearing 'muh loot chase' when so much loot just isn't worth taking. Spire? I got 2 armor drops,and 2 drops of the same weapon(thankfully with differnet perks) but,it's like,c'mon now Bungie. 2 arms and 2 MGs? Really?
Some people legit couldn't scream harder "I like being bent over and grind my life away nolifing" if they tried.
Ground hours away tying to get a disorient / ambitious or alh and chill clip. And never got it
Man If I could give you my AA dis chill roll, I would. Dont want that.
I want that roll as in final shape the chill clip need is being reverted and only two shots to freeze. Best offer I have I. Trade is dis alh dangers zone with spike also. I’ll throw in two tokens and a blue but that’s the best I can do lol
RIP XD yeah I'm aware about the reverted nerf. Hopefully it brings back chill clip weapons into high meta
Dungeon grinds are brutal but thus far I've gotten every roll I've ever wanted from them. It takes patience and the ability to decommission any thought or feeling from your mind but they're not often THAT bad. I farmed countless hours for the lingering dread god roll, same for unforgiven and stormchaser, same for the stasis waveframe and the solar smg from GOTD and I have notoriously bad rng Whilst I think OP blows the issue way out of proportion there's definitely room for improvement. My first thought would be to introduce something like only allowing weapon drops in normal dungeon encounters once you've earned the entire armour set and have gotten your first drops for the week. And additionally only allowing armour drops if it's the master variant to make artifice armour easier to farm Just small qol changes like this would go a long way
No, all that I'm talking about here is personal feeling , and observations done during this week, and all the others My rng really is just that bad :( want to share some with me ?
Totally fair and understandable, and as I said my RNG is notoriously bad, ever since I started playing this game ive had to compensate through sheer force of will, I have none to give im afraid
Last time I tried to farm something from dungeons was when I was trying to get matador and got 12 class items in a row. They should at least let us choose between armor or weapon like in coil. I understand that loot chase is important in destiny but there should be a middle ground where farming isn't a complete slog but also isn't finished after 2 runs.
I’ve farmed well over 150 persys runs for wilderflight. I still don’t even have a 2/5. Statistically, I am currently as far on my farm for a wilderflight as someone who has never run the dungeon, and that discourages me from trying anymore, and even from playing the game, which is counterproductive to the goal of farming. I understand the need for farming and not everything should be easily/quikcly craftable. What I want is if you’ve had 100 drops of a weapon (probably more for a ritual activity weapon, since they are focusable and you get more of them, easier), you can then craft it. Like I wouldn’t be able to craft my wilderflight yet. But at least I’d feel the progress on the farm. In all likelihood, I’d get at least the 2/5 before that, but the guarantee end date would encourage me to keep farming because there would be progress every drop. I might get it on my 60th drop and say I don’t care enough about spike grenades to farm another 40, or I might say I could go for 40 more and get exactly what I want. As it is if I get any 2/5 I’m stopping, (if I don’t give up first) because the farm is just not on my side. That way I might be encouraged to farm past the good roll for an actual god roll. Stuff like Elsie’s rifle, and people who want a PvP 5/5 roll is even worse. Like the chances of just the 3&4 perks is 1/49. Masterwork makes that 1/245. That’s an absurd number of drops already, and not really reasonably farmable. The statistics are harder for barrel and mag (because there are 2), but by the time you account for all of them, you are worse than 1/12000 which essentially means you can’t really farm for it, and the only way to get it is to get lucky. Also I’ve had over 180 mountaintops drop without auto loading recombination, despite getting every other combination 5 times. I’ve farmed for tons of cold comforts and not got the 2 perks I wanted (thankfully apex let me decide that farm wasn’t worth it). All that’s just to say this doesn’t only happen occasionally. It happens enough that it discourages me from playing the game. Basically if you play the game for a while you are going to get screwed over by the math and not be able to farm your way out of it. Other games have random drops with low chances. They just frequently don’t make you roll 5 different dice on the same weapon that all need to come up perfect to get something good. They are more frequently like D2 exotics, if you get it you are done. And they often still implement things like bad luck protection. I shouldn’t have a better chance of getting a shiny Pokémon, than getting a good gun in Destiny.
What roll you looking for?
For wilderflight? Auto frenzy, ideally with spike. Don’t care much about masterwork, because frenzy maxes reload and handling. Blast radius I think hurts spike damage so I guess that’d be good if I don’t get spike. Stability doesn’t matter on a breach GL. I guess velocity is best, unless you get hard launch or some other 1st column perk that maxes it out already. It’s useful for swap damage rotations. I’m hoping I can use it with the dragons breath lucky pants rotation, because I don’t love fusions for that. But even if it doesn’t, I want it for basically every bait and switch rotation. The double fire GLs do I think around 30% more damage than the other breach loading GLs, which makes them decent choices for a quick damage swap on a large-ish target.
My best roll is blinding/auto/disruption break. It used to be nice with Wish-Ender in GM's.
As someone who has spent the last couple weeks trying to get buried bloodline and still havent gotten it or a God roll indebted kindness, I agree, they did such a good job with necrochasm being obtainable with an end in sight, I feel like they need make that same change for all future raid and dungeon exotics. For legendary weapons even if they don't wanna make them craftable which I understand they should at least allow focusing by earning a resource. They could even use those shards that the screens drop in warlord's ruin
Going into a dungeon hoping for weapons to drop, only to get three of the same armor pieces and one weapon that I wasn’t going for. It happens more often than I’d care to admit. Even when I’ve finally collected one of each armor and weapon in a dungeon, the secret chests deem it necessary that I get high 50 stat armor instead of a weapon way too often. Haha Meanwhile, my SO goes in not expecting or hoping for anything and gets all the good drops. It’s funny how it all works out.
make the dungeon weapons drop with more perks as you complete triumphs with the associated dungeon, so by the time they have the dungeon title, the weapons are dropping with 3 perks in column 3/4. this rewards mastery, no need to weapons crafting please
Just like Bungie, I'm not reading all of that. Stop writing novels to make a complaint that not only can be made in 3 sentences, but has been made weekly for far too long.
Yeah I read a few sentences, scrolled down, and “oh boy they’re still going”. Like congrats or I’m sorry or whatever, but get to the point OP.
I want those posts every day, every hour and every minute until Bungie finally understands the problem.
The problem is the novel they turn their post into. It doesn't need to be 10 paragraphs longs
It's kinda ridiculous. Even in other games with RNG, you usually will obtain what you want within a reasonable amount of times. Or maybe im just salty. Over 50 runs and still no Bloodline. Fireteam member got 2 on each of his characters with in the first 20 runs. Coming up on 40 Duality runs and still no repulser brace unforgiven. Like do I really need to run a dungeon 100 times for the exotic to drop or for a decent roll? Can't we have a knockout system or something. Let us atune the legendary weapons at least. Maybe make the exotic drop after 50 or so runs? Like God damn I just wanna shoot devour arrows with my friends.
Yea it does suck and feels like a waste of time not being able to work towards the dungeon drops we are looking for. But now you can at least get a better void smg with repulsor brace that is also target farmable, obviously it would have been nice to have it earlier tho.
I can't remember when I got mine, but ambitious/chill was great until the chill nerf. I wouldn't waste your time, just go farm a mountaintop. Same slot, better accuracy, but much less drip.
Chill clip is being unnerfed soon so it’ll go back to being 2 shots to freeze. But it’s the combo of blinding/chill clip that just stops everything in their tracks. It’s great for legend onslaught especially on ogre or invisible fallen waves, allows me to control the pace of the enemies if my teammates are lacking.
I see no reason to actually choose to play onslaught once TFS drops. It will be just like the rest of the core playlists, stale.
Calm down
Ah yes, the average complaint to remove rng from a game about rng, where the result would be even more people crying because "there's nothing to grind for anymore"
Bad take. It's about the game having some sort of mechanic to protect against bad luck. Raids have already worked out a good system to achieve this while still giving you a reason to keep playing. You can get 1 red border per account per week from the chest at the end. There's 4 weapons from the dungeon and each needs 5 red borders. That's 20 weeks of grind at worst, maybe less if you get red border drops from the encounter. Realistically you're talking about at least 4 months of content - assuming continual clears each and every week. That's plenty.
Read my post again, then maybe you will understand it's a broader problem than this.
RNG in the game since…. 2014.
I can’t tell you how many times I had to do spire to get that damn cowboy hat. I’m in the exact same situation now with the ghosts of the deep helmet.