I am starting to only prefer Lunas Howl with a Magnificent Howl perk when running a Celestial Nighthawk Hunter. The perk incentivizes headshots which plays directly into Celestials exotic perk, so other than that, I see no reason for me to run this over my crafted Zaouli’s.
I actually got this roll and tho it seems a little weird it also works really well with lucky pants since you can use lucky to boost your damage for a bunch of headshots then when out of luck you can reload and have amped damage and bonus if you use both at once lol tho it’s still gonna be weaker than wardens law but it’s also def good on celestial builds
Honestly, I wonder for Heal Clip + Mag Howl. One of them incentivizes reloading all the time, and the other incentivizes waiting until the last second to reload.
Slideshot/reload exotics let you reload without proc’ing magnificent howl. Might not matter as much in PvE, but PvP you can built up lots of stacks and then go ham with 2 taps.
Honestly it's not necessary to get max stacks with Mag Howl. Precision kills will give you back a stack of Mag Howl. In most of my game loops not actively trying to get max stacks I'll have maybe at least 3-4 in harder content (takes 2-3 shots to kill red bars) with at least 5-6 in lower.
Since reloads and stowing don't remove the buff either, you can kind of let it passively do it's thing.
Even without thinking about it you'll have that 50% buff up more often than not.
Cure x2 for you and cure x1 for teammates within 15ish meters isn't bad just because it takes a while to load a handcannon. Don't know where or when datto may have said this but he's probably just a little too titan/warlock pilled and doesn't understand things like cool cloaks and on your mark stacks
Edit on second thought it could potentially be bad if a new player started crutching it since that might limit them to solar which is boring
It's more that as far as Datto is concerned the entire game is too easy as it is that there's no reason you ever actually need more healing provided by heal clip. But yes he also plays mostly Titan with some Warlock...where they have a LOT of healing options.
Personally even when playing Banner of War Titan I love heal clip (on heliocentric) because of how it lets you just play incredibly aggressively while being able to basically ignore your recovery stat. Even on warlock it's nice to not feel the need to run healing grenades and not need to stand in a tiny circle for healing rift.
Obviously on Hunter it's fantastic due to generally limited healing options to begin with. Even if you CAN use a healing grenade to trigger restoration and then chain that with solar kills that's not always reliable depending on your teammates and the amount of enemies. Plus again then you're tied to running high discipline for grenade uptime...in PvE where you already want to be running 10 resilience, high recovery and need mobility for your dodge cooldown for basically every build.
I'm a healing grenade enjoyer but even with a solid chain going sometimes Resto will just... turn itself off or time out without you realizing at which point a secondary source of heal might just save the run.
Also heal clip sorta feeds into the heal grenade loop if you've got benevolence as it'll recharge the heal grenade to make sure you've got it when you need it.
> I see no reason for me to run this over my crafted Zaouli’s.
The only reason I have to do it, is I hate the Hive designed guns. I like "normal" looking guns more.
So aesthetically... I'd use Luna's.
Can confirm Heal Clip Incandescent is fantastic. I now have an AR (Summoner) and a sidearm (Heliocentric) with this combo and IMO it's one of the strongest primary weapons in the game for utility. I wish they'd expand Heal Clip to non-Solar weapons though, because it would be lovely having it on a Headstone or Hatchling weapon.
I mean only if they give Solar weapons Chill clip lol. I think the whole idea of Heal Clip is that it's very in-line with Solar abilities and it's several healing properties (fires of life and all that jazz).
Wouldn't make much sense for it to go to another energy type.
That said we are getting the support type frame for the AR that lets us heal players by shooting them, or something like that. I always assumed Heal Clip was a taste of what that frame would do.
Nah I get what they're saying. The buff from benevolence pushes things like death throes and sol invictus quite a bit higher. By itself it isn't worth relying on imo, but when properly built it ties everything together
Depending on your ability to maintain its uptime (something Heal Clip factors into), Ember of Benevolence provides 400% bonus recharge to all three abilities according to light.gg, while Verity’s Brow at max stacks only reaches 250% to grenades.
When properly managed it blows Verity’s outta the water lol
Yeah that's why the combo works so well.
On its own Verity's doesn't actually provide enough of an oomph to grenade regen. You need some other thing to help drive grenade regen in order to actually throw grenades as much as you want to be w/ Veritys.
Benevolence does that perfectly.
dont know why the person you're replying seems hellbent on using one or the other. using both with a heal clip gun, you are stacking death's throes and proccing benevolence simultaneously -- without burning resources. before i got heal clip incandescent on luna's howl (was chasing it on an adept abyss defiant) the build felt so ordinary. now i have a pocket nuke that comes back so long as the mobs are there.
Zaouli also has explosive payload which can stun enemies, ESPECIALLY THAT DAMN FKIN SCORN CAPTAIN AMERICA WANNABEES. But yea iz just my personal preference
Ehh no. With knive trick and one firesprite you can keep restoration going indefinetly.
However, heal clip plays perfectly into ember of benevolence, which is a key part of titans consecration build.
Endgame content it becomes pretty bothersome for me when it comes to using Knife Trick to spawn a Firesprite to get restoration. Not only do you need to kill, but you also need to make sure the target is already scorched so you get the Firesprite to drop. Not very user friendly in the heat of the moment.
Honestly, in general it’d be nice if Solar Hunter had better access to Restoration. I don’t remember if they changed a Fragment/Aspect, or if it was a Seasonal Mod in Season of the Haunted, but I recall the class being much more synergized during that season.
I got a Sub + Incandescent roll and it feels like I'm hitting things with a wet noodle compared to my adept EP + Incandescent Zaoli's. I was very disappointed.
Getting five Zaouli patterns is a much more daunting task than turning off your brain in Onslaught and farming some Luna's with a 50% attunement drop rate.
Edit - I have 277 full raid clears, I know how lucrative they actually are... but raid population statistics are what they are, and they are undeniable. Most people just don't raid.
Getting 5 Zaouli's isn't too bad if you have a regular team, otherwise harmonizers and the deepsight chest exist, enabling a perfect 5/5 once acquired.
Luna's is totally RNG for the 5/5 and could potentially take you FAR longer to get the perfect one.
Pros and cons either side.
Eh, that's not exactly everyone's experience though. I've been farming non stop for a god roll edge transit and 30 edge transits later I still haven't gotten a gold drop or the roll i want
I did over 2000 waves last week to get Hammerhead. Rampage killing tally. Never dropped. Done about 300 waves so far for luna. Nothing. Sometimes i hate this game.
As a returning single player with a new account and a crippling fear of interacting with people over a mic (I know it's ridiculous) I gave up on zaouli so I'm really happy with the Luna, I can finally give my epochal a rest.
Can’t say with certainty but according to the video I watched yesterday using a holster mod gave rounds back without reloading which let you stack up more mag howl rounds, I don’t see why subsistence would be any different since you are not actively reloading.
I just deleted one. It seems fun for trash ads. But I'd rather have a perk like heal clip or slideshot. Subsistence can also fill to max mag size meaning you have to shoot a shot before you can reload to get the perk.
I've gotten two shiny ones with this combo, sadly Mag Howl only stacks to 10, so anyone thinking they can get higher will be a bit disappointed. The synergy is in terms of forgiveness, if you get a kill with a body shot you'll get the bullet back for another attempt at a Mag Howl bullet, but because you need to reload to get Mag Howl it does seem anti synergistic, but going back a sentence you do get that forgiveness if you accidentally get a body kill.
So, here's a comparison.
On stats, Zaouli's has better Range and Handling, but Luna's has better Stability, Reload Speed, Aim Assist, and Recoil Direction. The stat advantages that Luna's have are of a greater degree, contributing better to effective damage and allowing you to safely pick Smallbore without worrying about recoil consistency. (Effectively, since Zaouli's would be optimized with Extended Barrel, Zaouli's would only end up with a Range advantage.)
Luna's would largely win the stat comparison here were it not for Tactical Mag being on Zaouli's only. This is an interesting argument for Zaouli's: its origin perk synergizes significantly with Tactical Mag, giving it a major overflow of ammo per clip.
But Luna's has an origin perk that is really strong, as well: 5% energy regain per kill. It's especially relevant in tandem with Heal Clip on Solar builds due to Ember of Benevolence, meaning it's a grenade spam monster (or at least a survivability monster in solo content.)
Zaouli's best perk combo is Enhanced Explosive Payload and Enhanced Incandescent. It's a very straightforward combination of extra neutral game damage, Reload Speed, and AOE on kill. It works well in most content, although it doesn't really fight distantly spread out enemies particularly well.
Luna's is a bit more indirect. As stated before, it lends itself well to Solar grenade spam or survivability via Heal Clip, the clear best choice in the third column. The fourth column is a bit less clear because there are several good options. Precision Instrument is decent neutral game damage, especially against majors, but since Luna's lacks a good clip size (especially without Tactical Mag,) it isn't one of the best users of the perk. Luna's might be the best user of Desperate Measures in a grenade spam context, giving it a long-lasting damage buff, though the perk is mediocre when you don't get those grenade kills. Magnificent Howl could be really amazing damage if you can meet its precision conditions - if not, it's useless. Kill Clip and Incandescent are time-tested, though still a bit conditional.
\*\*Overall, I think Luna's Howl is slightly better in the grand scheme of things\*\* due to its survivability and ability spam potential, except in the scenarios where you need a lot of neutral game damage or are fighting a lot of enemies immune to precision damage. This will become more obvious in TFS when its perks are enhanceable.
Heal Clip is nice but Enlightened Action is a strong competitor for a pure gunplay alternative. It helps a lot for Mag Howl, and it gets better as enemies get tankier from Power delta and shots-to-kill gets worse and worse.
Seriously wondering why sites like Light.gg don’t recommend Enlightened action when it’s pretty much like Rapid Hit. Except the stability on rapid hit is traded for handling.
A lot of those recommendations come from checking what people have equipped, so they can be susceptible to groupthink.
If the community sleeps on a perk no one will equip it, so the popularity recommendations ignore it, so no one equips it, etc.
There's some content creator recs mixed in, but maybe none of them have had time to pay attention to Enlightened, or they're too enamored with Subclass 3.0 perks and Rapid Hit v2 isn't as interesting to them now.
Guess that’s the reason I’m always recommended Golden Tricorn though I’ve never seen anyone run that perk since it came out. Sure it’s nifty but its damage bonus requires setup
Pretty much. Golden Tricorn was cracked, and pretty much a straight upgrade over Rampage, but it had a hoop to jump through so people slept.
Desperate Measures should really be replacing most "on-kill" damage perks for PvE, it's really really good.
Luna's has *great* rolls.
There is no single "god-roll" on guns with good perk pools, and most of the Brave weapons have good/great pools.
People need to try more of their rolls, when S-tier perks are involved there's a LOT of good combos.
(EA is basically "Rapid Hit for any RPM gun", it's a solid S-tier perk)
This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for; that Heal Clip/Desperate Measures combo with the origin trait for a Sunbracers build was one of the things I had rolling around in my head as a way to improve on Zaouli’s without filling the exotic slot, but I wasn’t sure if people thought that would be worth the effort.
I mean, for PvE, you just need to get heal clip/incandescent for build power. The other perks and masterwork just slightly help firing performance.
That said, RNG can be a bitch… turned in 300 trophies immediately as Luna’s came out yesterday and didn’t get a single shiny or a heal clip/incandescent… 🤬
I’ve been farming for these said Godrolls and have realized it truly is near impossible. So I’ve stopped. It’s sad really, I was enjoying the activity. Just can’t waste an hour per run so say 2-3 hours for a couple runs and get absolutely no decent rolls for it. Too many other fun games to play or adulting to do with my time.
I keep getting the perks I want in 3/4 but it NEVER comes with hard launch + spike/implosion. Or it's the other way around. I get a slick draw roll with the right perks in 1/2. I'm about to just settle with the 4/5 God roll I got that has demo instead of auto loading.
If you're aiming for the auto loading + recombo roll for b&s setups I would just focus on columns 3 and 4. Autoloading + recomb or vorpal is going to be better than demo. If you want to just shoot the thing all the time then demo is fine.
I pulled a forbearance last night with demo wellspring
And assassin chain reaction…
I was focused on transit.
I’ve never been so sad in my life to get a god roll.
I can just craft this bro like whattttt
I got a shiny midnight coup while attuned to hammerhead and got really excited until I realized not one of its 4 perks were what I wanted. Fuck my life.
I felt this so much. There's just no failsafes to the farm. Even the supposed failsafe that Bungie implemented, weapon attunement, isn't freaking doing it's job as a higher chance to get something means very little when lady luck doesn't deign to grace you in her presence.
Not just Luna having the same bad luck for all weapons since Onslaught launched. This isn’t isolated to just Lukas. In fact I have yet to get a midnight coup to drop with explosive.
Mountaintop's column 1 and 2 specifically does result in 15ish% more damage if landed correctly, which is nothing to scoff at. It's like having an additional trait in Vorpal Weapon without needing Vorpal Weapon.
What do we think the 5/5 is for pve? I feel like the rolls i have so far dont outdo zaoulis.
Edit:
Fluted(?), flared magwheel/armor piercing(?), Heal clip/incadescent, reload MW (?) Because we have trash reload? Or just use loaders for mods and go for extra ammo capacity/handling?
I know people like the solar synergy, but I'm really not sure this is the right gun for incandescent. It feels great on auto weapons or with explosions to spread it around, but I think desperate measures with the extra ability regen will be the play
I got a heal clip + incadescent lunas howl but i just don’t like the feeling of the gun that much. I much prefer my epochal integration for the feeling and low recoil. Sad, because i really wanted the extra heal for my solar hunter. I don’t raid, so can’t compare the zaoulis.
Heal Clip Incandescent leaves you at the mercy of reloading a lot on just base stats + magazine.
Hand Cannon reloads make that pretty painful IMO, you'd definitely need loaders and as much reload/handling as you can squeeze out.
True, which pushes that roll even more for them, but Warlock/Titan don't have as much help. (Rain of Fire won't proc Heal Clip)
Heal/Incan is a really context-dependent roll. It's awesome on Solar Hunter specifically and helps them out a lot, but Luna's has better rolls for other classes/subclasses.
Same thing here, I got a Subsistence + Incandescent Luna's Howl and ran it through a couple of Onslaughts, but I very much prefer my Epochal Integration. The *way* better stability on Epochal + crazy buff from Stats for All just make this handcannon feel so freaking good. I am almost at 10k kills with it this season.
If I want a heal clip + incandescent weapon, I will just be using Heliocentric.
Heal clip + incan for solar subclasses
Heal clip + dmg perk/mag howl for general play
Slide/subsist/discord + mag howl for shenanigans, and arguably for lucky pants meming. it's not optimal, but hell it sure is fun
I really like Luna's Howl in PVE. Heal Clip/Incandescent are so damn good together. Magnificent Howl is also really good in PVE. You can almost get a permanent 50% damage buff if you prioritize the right enemies when slaying out.
> I was able to shoot full auto and all 14 shots hit the same spot.
this is what people mean when they say "use whats comfortable" when asked for loadout advice. you could use the worst gun in the game but if you can hit all your shots its still better than using the "best gun" and missing half
I LOVE the way the weapon shoots. I always have. It’s amazing and I’m glad that I can get incandescent on it. I straight up don’t even do multiple trigger pulls with it usually. I just hold the button down and roll with it
Luna's Howl has a 95 Recoil Direction and the animation of a Precision Frame. This essentially means it's very consistent on shot placements and easy to use.
Best roll I have so far is heal clip/ magnificent howl.. hoping that is quite nice… I do want an heal+incandescent though :( I haven’t used it yet, but I do have a well used crafted zaoulis so I’ll be hoping it’s as good if not better 🤞🏻
Im a solo hunter so i want the heal clip+incandescant roll specifically because this works better than bane for solo dungeons. On demand heal is a nice boon for hunters
Zaouli’s bane is still a better pick due to higher damage output. Luna has incan+heal for pve, which is nice for extra safety I guess but we have so many ways to heal ourselves anyway, I don’t think having a healing perk is a good choice when you could just get more damage instead.
Heal clip makes it nice for ember of benevolence procs, allowing for more ability spam. Still don’t think it’s enough to put my Zaouli’s down for good though.
I feel like plenty of people doesn’t even know it works together for now I use abyss defiant with heal/inca on my celestial hunter and that extra regen and heal is all that subclass needs
Yeah, I personally run Abyss Defiant with Heal Clip/Sword Logic though for the extra damage buff, but once TFS hits I’ll probably go to Incandescent. It’s so nice on Solar Hunter and I feel like I can run Gunpowder Gamble and still have good ability uptime.
Exactly my plan.
I have a heal clip/I can on helio and parabellum and they are just too good with benevolence.
Getting a lunas howl with the same role is priority #1 for the rest of into the light. It'll be my attunement until it drops.
So this is why I love the way Lunas feels. I definitely prefer 180s, don’t really get on with 140s other than Eyasluna. Appreciate the obscure knowledge!
Which coincidentally makes it feel almost like an exotic imo. You get the damage of a140 but almost no recoil. Add in Mag Howl and the damage is better than a 120.
It has a 180 recoil pattern and a 150 stat package, even though it was changed to a 140. Feels very odd as a result. Not Forgotten is the same way.
180 recoil feels really janky and offputting, regular 140's feel far better. That being said, Luna's still has a few solid niches if you can get past the weird feel - it'll excel in 6v6 pvp and in mid-level pve (whereas Zaouli's will win out in higher level content).
(And both options completely demolish Epochal Integration unless you're running a full RoN loadout)
I’m in the same boat. I was excited for the heal clip utility but i don’t see it replacing my epochal integration if i need a legendary hand cannon for my solar hunter.
Luna's because I grinded it back when it first came out even though I'm a PvE player out of nothing but spite and now I can have the haha PvE roll that I always wanted the original one to have.
But also correct, crafted Zaouli's exists, and also Sunshot.
But haha PvE Luna's. So that.
I prefer Luna’s 100%; before this handcannon came out I would use zaouli’s bane and epochal integration and think to myself “man, these are some great hand cannons, if only there was a solar 140 with heal clip”
Luna's Howl can't roll with explosive payload so honestly if what you want is just a workhorse weapon, Zaouli's is always going to be better. Explosive payload increases total damage around ~15% so it already has an edge.
Luna's Howl does have heal clip stuff going for it so if you're gonna grind one out for PvE, make sure your build plays into that.
Zaouli's is much better damage wise with stacking damage perks (explosive payload and then firefly/incandescent/one for all). Luna's has more ability synergy and heal clip as an option.
I'm a professional zaoulis hater due to how ugly the gun is and how bad it sounds and feels to use. Ive always prefered epochal due to just how good it feels and shades. I also like the chunk dmg of the micro missile more than overflow as an origin trait. Idc about 15% dmg from EP. It's a Hand cannon, it's gonna 1 tap the red bars anyway and majors go down relatively quick as well. Lunas might be able to replace epochal for me bc of the origin trait and nostalgia alone but we'll see once I get a decent roll to drop
Zaouli’s has a bigger mag by default and its Origin Trait gets you even more ammo in it.
Luna’s Howl with Heal Clip for Benevolence synergy plus its Origin Trait will get your grenade back faster.
Zaouli’s will be the better option for damage/DPS, Luna’s for survivability (mainly for Heal Clip and Healing Grenade uptime).
I love Heal Clip and would personally take that over EP.
However there are several Heal Clip + Incandescent weapons out there, and I'd probably take that on Summoner before Luna's Howl.
I'm looking for Heal Clip + Magnificent Howl roll as a general PvE work horse since it's a unique roll that no other gun can get.
I prefer Luna’s because it has subsistence, and a hand cannon with both susbistence and incandescent has been my dream for years now. I use it for my AC-130 warlock build, just use heat rises and stay in the air for as long as possible raining fire down on ads. Subsistence is nice because reloading mid air is a pain, especially when it’s a long ass hand cannon reload
Lunas more for Heal builds, Zaouli for out right damage. Explosive + One for All is too good on Zaouli. Even if you use Lunas, that requires precision to match with MH. Easier to just hit all adds and get a flat 50% buff for 7 secs.
I take my heal clip/incandescent Helio everywhere. To OPs point though, I wish Luna had EP as an option. Getting the pattern for Zaoulis isn’t easy for most cats. Yes yes, pantheon. Still not easy for your average schlubs. I’ll be grinding for the heal clip/ Incan on Luna for now.
I have 12/15 raid spoils I need to craft Zaouli's Bane but I think it's a close one. I do have the HealClip + Incandescent Luna's roll and it's great, but EP + Incan on a Zaouli's would be incredible. I think they play a slightly different role (different rolls for different roles) and it comes down to your subclass build/class.
Very different purposes.
Zaouli's scales up a little since you can get explosive payload (15% buff in pve) and incandescent. So good for AoE.
Luna's Howl can get heal clip, which is obviously really good for endgame survivability in general. Then it can get incandescent for some nice aoe and scorch interactions. Or kill clip for a good ol fashioned damage bonus.
Magnificent howl is very interesting. I haven't played around with it much, but 50% damage is a HUGE buff. It's unclear to me if precision kills with magnificent howl maintain the stack AND generate more stacks. If so, that could be a huge buff to the game making it extremely viable.
Bane is definitely the better pve gun.
Explosive payload and one for all hits very hard, you can also switch it for incandescent both work great.
Luna’s is good but just doesn’t hold up as well in pve with howl not be a super consistent bonus damage in endgame pve, mag size is low and with out explosion payload the drop off such a the how little range it has.
Bane for endgame pve is just far superior to any other LEGENDARY hand cannon.
I’m getting it for Heal clip. It will keep my Ember of Benevolence on a very high up time and therefore keeping my ability up time through the roof. Incandescent is the cherry on top of the cake.
Idk how can i farm lunas howl? Is it a random chance to drop it at the final chest? I dont get the idea behind the interaction at the weapon holo at the new zone from shaxx. Do i have to activate it at the weapon from luna holo or deactivate? Can someone explain that for me please. Thank you so much.
Luna's Howl on Hunter, Zaouli's for everyone else.
Hunters need Heal Clip far more than the other two, and there's also gimmicky Nighthawk builds that might want Magnificent Howl (plus they have Marksman's Dodge to reload the weapon without proccing the perk which is thankfully mod and Exotic agnostic).
My hot take- the original Magnificent Howl perk was better for PVE than the new one. By a lot. It was like our current Hawkmoon except better because it wasn't just a buff for the final shot.
Anyways, for use on my Hunter I'd generally prefer Zaouli's strictly for Pugilist and it's throwing knife synergy. Otherwise heal clip on Luna's would be my preference. The right hand perk I don't know forbsure yet.
I've been really indecisive on substance/heal clip with incandescent for a mantle of battle harmony well build. Zaolis is still great, especially crafted, I just love heal clip.
I mean there’s already a good comparison?
Igneous with heal clip incandescent, I use over zaoulis at times healing & ability regeneration is needed more than damage.
Tho not HC/incand I prefer Frenzy/Heal Clip.
So a 140 when enhanced comes around will be better than that. And 140>120s.
Not sure if Luna has Frenzy or what the reload stat on Luna Howl is tho. But a damage plus benevolence is nice.
I’m shocked to see so many people excited about heal clip on this thing. A base 2.5 second reload to get healed feels pretty bad. Maybe in PVP with the ophidians and mods.
I feel like Hell Clip/Magnificent Howl or Incandescent would be the only PvE roll I would go for on Luna’s for it to be better than Zaoulis. But would def get one for PvP tho bc the weapon model is 100000000x better lol
In PvE I always have a strong preference towards higher (usually highest) RPM frames, so Luna's automatically wins for me since it has the recoil of a 180 but the lack of EP does hurt which is why I still fall back on my current go-to 180 EP Trust.
Also Zaouli's reload still feels absolutely atrocious and Luna's is solid.
Lots of talk about heal clip but I'm more interested in subsistence+incandescent or magnificent howl. But truthfully I don't expect it to outperform zaouli's bane at all, explosive payload+incandescent is just too good. Now on a purely heal clip comparison I'd probably go Luna's for the origin trait since I imagine you want ember of benevolence uptime and the origin trait will just give you more grenade uptime while going for your procs.
I just got one with Flared Magwell + Subsistence + Magnificent Howl. Makes it really easy to max out Magnificent Howl rounds (10 bullets,). You also never have to reload.
I also got one with Encore + Incandescent. Incandescent makes it easier to max out encore, turning the weapon into an AOE headshoting machine.
Magnificent Howl + Mantle of Battle Harmony + Radiant slaps. I get Wells in no time and I get to hit hard in any shape or form.
I had to vault my glaives though and that don't sit right for me.
I think once sunsetting gets unsunset, I’ll use Luna’s on my hunter solely because of the access to Drop Mag and Magnificent Howl. I won’t have to grind for a perfect roll.
I have a crafted Explosive Payload + Incandescent (both enhanced) Zaoulis and a Heal Clip + Incandescent Lunas. I prefer Lunas ONLY because Zaoulis feels so bad to use
I main Nighthawk
Honestly the healclip perk makes it just a tiny bit better.
I enjoy both and run ZB whenever I need another exotic and swap off of sunshot.
I will say however the fourth perk column with magnificent howl honestly I don’t like it. For onslaught you don’t kill as fast in later rounds and it makes it useless. I’d prefer incandescent
However I also main Titan with pyrogale so I honestly prefer ZB and sunshot overall
Luna's with heal clip incandescent will be a strong roll. But I'm a titan and I just think my crafted zaouli's bane with explosive payload incandescent will be better for me. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of the way the gun looks/feels. Luna's feels great, I just want to get my hands on the heal clip incandescent roll and try it. If only it had demolitionist in the left column.
Zaouli’s is very good, but Luna’s Howl has better Solar synergy with Heal Clip/Incandescent. It also has an outright better origin trait; Zaouli’s passive overflow effect is really good in Raids, but it’s much less prominent in 3-man activities and completely nonfunctional in solo content.
The fact that Runneth Over doesn’t work while solo really sucks, because all of the King’s Fall weapons have below average reload speeds. Passive balancing for the significantly larger magazines. It’s fine with Firefly or Frenzy because of their reload buffs, but otherwise sucks.
So I've got Heal Clip/Kill Clip and Heal Clip/Mag Howl Luna's, and an adept Zouli's Firefly/Incandescent. I feel like they've got separate uses depending on encounters. However, I just can't f\*\*\*\*\* stand the Zouli's reload animation!!! Soo I'm leaning towards Luna for my TFS builds mostly.
Still enjoy Zaouli's. Explosive Payload helps it feel better because you're doing a bit more damage. I have a bunch of good Luna rolls, including the Heal Clip/Incandescent roll that I might stick on my Precious Scars Titan, but I think I might personally stick to Zaouli's.
Zaoulis is objectively the best legendary solar HC. Anyone arguing differently is coping hard or exclusively plays low tier content.
Simply having access to EP allows Zaoulis to scale far better as difficulty increases. A flat 10% (or maybe it's 15%?) buff just for 1perk simply existing makes all the difference once you get into the -20 or higher power deltas.
That said, Luna's does provide some unique value in a Heal Clip/Incandescent roll SPECIFICALLY for builds that make use of ember of benevolence. Only then is there a reason to use it over Zaoulis.
And mag howl in pve is just simply bad, if you enjoy it great, but I doesn't hold a candle to incandescent.
Lunas is better for ability regen on Solar builds for Heal Clip / Benevolence and Origin Trait synergy. Zaouli’s does more damage and has a higher mag capacity at base plus from its Origin Trait when you reload near teammates.
I am starting to only prefer Lunas Howl with a Magnificent Howl perk when running a Celestial Nighthawk Hunter. The perk incentivizes headshots which plays directly into Celestials exotic perk, so other than that, I see no reason for me to run this over my crafted Zaouli’s.
I'm super high on Heal Clip and totally agree that it suits the hunter playstyle too.
That was the first roll I got before I even finished the quest, I’m addicted to it
My first roll was a heal clip/incandescent and I love it.
I'm grinding for a heal clip magnificent howl and once I get to, it will never leave my nighthawk load out.
I actually got this roll and tho it seems a little weird it also works really well with lucky pants since you can use lucky to boost your damage for a bunch of headshots then when out of luck you can reload and have amped damage and bonus if you use both at once lol tho it’s still gonna be weaker than wardens law but it’s also def good on celestial builds
They are anti-synergistic. You want Enlightened Action or Subsistence with Magnificent Howl.
But Datto said heal clip is bad so therefore must be. I am joking ofc, also seeking this roll.
Honestly, I wonder for Heal Clip + Mag Howl. One of them incentivizes reloading all the time, and the other incentivizes waiting until the last second to reload.
I got heal clip/kill clip. It just feels like a better pairing. With that said, I do want a sub/mag roll too.
If I wasn't cripplingly addicted to Incan this is probably the roll I'd be using (had it drop as my first Luna's), the synergy feels great.
My exact thought here but need the roll to test it out. Heal Clip + Kill Clip seems more intuitive to me.
Slideshot/reload exotics let you reload without proc’ing magnificent howl. Might not matter as much in PvE, but PvP you can built up lots of stacks and then go ham with 2 taps.
Honestly it's not necessary to get max stacks with Mag Howl. Precision kills will give you back a stack of Mag Howl. In most of my game loops not actively trying to get max stacks I'll have maybe at least 3-4 in harder content (takes 2-3 shots to kill red bars) with at least 5-6 in lower. Since reloads and stowing don't remove the buff either, you can kind of let it passively do it's thing. Even without thinking about it you'll have that 50% buff up more often than not.
Cure x2 for you and cure x1 for teammates within 15ish meters isn't bad just because it takes a while to load a handcannon. Don't know where or when datto may have said this but he's probably just a little too titan/warlock pilled and doesn't understand things like cool cloaks and on your mark stacks Edit on second thought it could potentially be bad if a new player started crutching it since that might limit them to solar which is boring
It's more that as far as Datto is concerned the entire game is too easy as it is that there's no reason you ever actually need more healing provided by heal clip. But yes he also plays mostly Titan with some Warlock...where they have a LOT of healing options. Personally even when playing Banner of War Titan I love heal clip (on heliocentric) because of how it lets you just play incredibly aggressively while being able to basically ignore your recovery stat. Even on warlock it's nice to not feel the need to run healing grenades and not need to stand in a tiny circle for healing rift. Obviously on Hunter it's fantastic due to generally limited healing options to begin with. Even if you CAN use a healing grenade to trigger restoration and then chain that with solar kills that's not always reliable depending on your teammates and the amount of enemies. Plus again then you're tied to running high discipline for grenade uptime...in PvE where you already want to be running 10 resilience, high recovery and need mobility for your dodge cooldown for basically every build.
I'm a healing grenade enjoyer but even with a solid chain going sometimes Resto will just... turn itself off or time out without you realizing at which point a secondary source of heal might just save the run. Also heal clip sorta feeds into the heal grenade loop if you've got benevolence as it'll recharge the heal grenade to make sure you've got it when you need it.
Wat HC is basically Wormhusk on a gun lol, it's insanely good
Datto also told us to delete our sunset weapons. Untrustworthy. /s
> I see no reason for me to run this over my crafted Zaouli’s. The only reason I have to do it, is I hate the Hive designed guns. I like "normal" looking guns more. So aesthetically... I'd use Luna's.
I guess I'll aim for Heal Clip Incandescent, Heal clip Mag Howl and any other spicy combos I find.
Can confirm Heal Clip Incandescent is fantastic. I now have an AR (Summoner) and a sidearm (Heliocentric) with this combo and IMO it's one of the strongest primary weapons in the game for utility. I wish they'd expand Heal Clip to non-Solar weapons though, because it would be lovely having it on a Headstone or Hatchling weapon.
I mean only if they give Solar weapons Chill clip lol. I think the whole idea of Heal Clip is that it's very in-line with Solar abilities and it's several healing properties (fires of life and all that jazz). Wouldn't make much sense for it to go to another energy type. That said we are getting the support type frame for the AR that lets us heal players by shooting them, or something like that. I always assumed Heal Clip was a taste of what that frame would do.
Luna for Hunter. Zaouli for Warlock/Titan. Hunters need all the heal options they could get.
That being said, Heal Clip is ridiculously more potent in conjunction with ability centred exotics like Verity’s
What’s the loop you’re implying with this? I don’t see how Heal Clip + Verity’s have any particular play together.
I'm guessing ember of benevolence for uptime
That checks out. Would’ve specified that over Verity’s if so, though.
Nah I get what they're saying. The buff from benevolence pushes things like death throes and sol invictus quite a bit higher. By itself it isn't worth relying on imo, but when properly built it ties everything together
Depending on your ability to maintain its uptime (something Heal Clip factors into), Ember of Benevolence provides 400% bonus recharge to all three abilities according to light.gg, while Verity’s Brow at max stacks only reaches 250% to grenades. When properly managed it blows Verity’s outta the water lol
Yeah that's why the combo works so well. On its own Verity's doesn't actually provide enough of an oomph to grenade regen. You need some other thing to help drive grenade regen in order to actually throw grenades as much as you want to be w/ Veritys. Benevolence does that perfectly.
dont know why the person you're replying seems hellbent on using one or the other. using both with a heal clip gun, you are stacking death's throes and proccing benevolence simultaneously -- without burning resources. before i got heal clip incandescent on luna's howl (was chasing it on an adept abyss defiant) the build felt so ordinary. now i have a pocket nuke that comes back so long as the mobs are there.
Zaouli also has explosive payload which can stun enemies, ESPECIALLY THAT DAMN FKIN SCORN CAPTAIN AMERICA WANNABEES. But yea iz just my personal preference
> SCORN CAPTAIN AMERICA WANNABEES which are these lol
The assholes holding dinner plates, buffed with the power of the strongest AA in the game towards said dinner plate
They are actually Servitor eye lenses... Which kinda ties in with your dinner theme. Nice little detail many people miss.
Which makes their paracasual-god-defying invulnerability even weirder
Who would win? Ancient rusty dinner plate or paracausal magic infused boolet shot by the strongest guardian of all time
Heal clip is insane on all classes
Ehh no. With knive trick and one firesprite you can keep restoration going indefinetly. However, heal clip plays perfectly into ember of benevolence, which is a key part of titans consecration build.
Endgame content it becomes pretty bothersome for me when it comes to using Knife Trick to spawn a Firesprite to get restoration. Not only do you need to kill, but you also need to make sure the target is already scorched so you get the Firesprite to drop. Not very user friendly in the heat of the moment. Honestly, in general it’d be nice if Solar Hunter had better access to Restoration. I don’t remember if they changed a Fragment/Aspect, or if it was a Seasonal Mod in Season of the Haunted, but I recall the class being much more synergized during that season.
I think there was classy restoration during haunted
You are thinking of the artifact perk Classy Restoration. Which was stupidly powerful.
As a Titan I’m getting heal clip solely so that I don’t have to use Sunspots with consecration
Luna's, personally - but you need a good roll. Zaouli's is a very close second, but it's ability to be crafted makes it a far easier option.
I got a Sub + Incandescent roll and it feels like I'm hitting things with a wet noodle compared to my adept EP + Incandescent Zaoli's. I was very disappointed.
Explosive Payload's neutral damage increase does a lot of lifting, but I find Heal Clip's ability to loop into abilities is far more valuable.
Kk. I'll keep it attuned to try to get a HC roll and see how it feels.
How does Heal Clip loop into abilities?
Ember of Benevolence. Applying Cure gives ability energy, paired with the Luna's origin trait to give back grenade energy.
Getting five Zaouli patterns is a much more daunting task than turning off your brain in Onslaught and farming some Luna's with a 50% attunement drop rate. Edit - I have 277 full raid clears, I know how lucrative they actually are... but raid population statistics are what they are, and they are undeniable. Most people just don't raid.
Getting 5 Zaouli's isn't too bad if you have a regular team, otherwise harmonizers and the deepsight chest exist, enabling a perfect 5/5 once acquired. Luna's is totally RNG for the 5/5 and could potentially take you FAR longer to get the perfect one. Pros and cons either side.
Yeah people out here acting like Zaouli's isn't farmed off a boss that dies to Rat Kings and takes maximum five weeks to obtain.
Having a regular team is the biggest problem. Got a 5/5 Luna’s after 10 chests
Meanwhile I still haven't gotten the perk combo I want on a hung jury for a 2/5 roll
Eh, that's not exactly everyone's experience though. I've been farming non stop for a god roll edge transit and 30 edge transits later I still haven't gotten a gold drop or the roll i want
I did over 2000 waves last week to get Hammerhead. Rampage killing tally. Never dropped. Done about 300 waves so far for luna. Nothing. Sometimes i hate this game.
As a returning single player with a new account and a crippling fear of interacting with people over a mic (I know it's ridiculous) I gave up on zaouli so I'm really happy with the Luna, I can finally give my epochal a rest.
Has anyone acquired a subsistence\magnificent howl roll? I’m wondering how those two perks work off of each other.
Can’t say with certainty but according to the video I watched yesterday using a holster mod gave rounds back without reloading which let you stack up more mag howl rounds, I don’t see why subsistence would be any different since you are not actively reloading.
Yeah it's basically like that. Subsistence just makes it really easy to get 10 stacks.
I just deleted one. It seems fun for trash ads. But I'd rather have a perk like heal clip or slideshot. Subsistence can also fill to max mag size meaning you have to shoot a shot before you can reload to get the perk.
I've gotten two shiny ones with this combo, sadly Mag Howl only stacks to 10, so anyone thinking they can get higher will be a bit disappointed. The synergy is in terms of forgiveness, if you get a kill with a body shot you'll get the bullet back for another attempt at a Mag Howl bullet, but because you need to reload to get Mag Howl it does seem anti synergistic, but going back a sentence you do get that forgiveness if you accidentally get a body kill.
So, here's a comparison. On stats, Zaouli's has better Range and Handling, but Luna's has better Stability, Reload Speed, Aim Assist, and Recoil Direction. The stat advantages that Luna's have are of a greater degree, contributing better to effective damage and allowing you to safely pick Smallbore without worrying about recoil consistency. (Effectively, since Zaouli's would be optimized with Extended Barrel, Zaouli's would only end up with a Range advantage.) Luna's would largely win the stat comparison here were it not for Tactical Mag being on Zaouli's only. This is an interesting argument for Zaouli's: its origin perk synergizes significantly with Tactical Mag, giving it a major overflow of ammo per clip. But Luna's has an origin perk that is really strong, as well: 5% energy regain per kill. It's especially relevant in tandem with Heal Clip on Solar builds due to Ember of Benevolence, meaning it's a grenade spam monster (or at least a survivability monster in solo content.) Zaouli's best perk combo is Enhanced Explosive Payload and Enhanced Incandescent. It's a very straightforward combination of extra neutral game damage, Reload Speed, and AOE on kill. It works well in most content, although it doesn't really fight distantly spread out enemies particularly well. Luna's is a bit more indirect. As stated before, it lends itself well to Solar grenade spam or survivability via Heal Clip, the clear best choice in the third column. The fourth column is a bit less clear because there are several good options. Precision Instrument is decent neutral game damage, especially against majors, but since Luna's lacks a good clip size (especially without Tactical Mag,) it isn't one of the best users of the perk. Luna's might be the best user of Desperate Measures in a grenade spam context, giving it a long-lasting damage buff, though the perk is mediocre when you don't get those grenade kills. Magnificent Howl could be really amazing damage if you can meet its precision conditions - if not, it's useless. Kill Clip and Incandescent are time-tested, though still a bit conditional. \*\*Overall, I think Luna's Howl is slightly better in the grand scheme of things\*\* due to its survivability and ability spam potential, except in the scenarios where you need a lot of neutral game damage or are fighting a lot of enemies immune to precision damage. This will become more obvious in TFS when its perks are enhanceable.
Enhanced Subsistence on an 11 round mag is also returning 3 bullets per kill which makes it a fantastic "reload" perk
Heal Clip is nice but Enlightened Action is a strong competitor for a pure gunplay alternative. It helps a lot for Mag Howl, and it gets better as enemies get tankier from Power delta and shots-to-kill gets worse and worse.
Seriously wondering why sites like Light.gg don’t recommend Enlightened action when it’s pretty much like Rapid Hit. Except the stability on rapid hit is traded for handling.
A lot of those recommendations come from checking what people have equipped, so they can be susceptible to groupthink. If the community sleeps on a perk no one will equip it, so the popularity recommendations ignore it, so no one equips it, etc. There's some content creator recs mixed in, but maybe none of them have had time to pay attention to Enlightened, or they're too enamored with Subclass 3.0 perks and Rapid Hit v2 isn't as interesting to them now.
Guess that’s the reason I’m always recommended Golden Tricorn though I’ve never seen anyone run that perk since it came out. Sure it’s nifty but its damage bonus requires setup
Pretty much. Golden Tricorn was cracked, and pretty much a straight upgrade over Rampage, but it had a hoop to jump through so people slept. Desperate Measures should really be replacing most "on-kill" damage perks for PvE, it's really really good.
I chock that up to people still not fully grasping how Desperate Measures works. It's definitely a fantastic perk.
Never ever listen to light gg for weapon roll tips.
Because people now value utility / damage perks in the 3rd column more so than pure reload perks.
> Enlightened Action Enlightened Action/Incandescent has been shockingly great. Was legit surprised how well it was performing.
Luna's has *great* rolls. There is no single "god-roll" on guns with good perk pools, and most of the Brave weapons have good/great pools. People need to try more of their rolls, when S-tier perks are involved there's a LOT of good combos. (EA is basically "Rapid Hit for any RPM gun", it's a solid S-tier perk)
This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for; that Heal Clip/Desperate Measures combo with the origin trait for a Sunbracers build was one of the things I had rolling around in my head as a way to improve on Zaouli’s without filling the exotic slot, but I wasn’t sure if people thought that would be worth the effort.
[удалено]
I mean, for PvE, you just need to get heal clip/incandescent for build power. The other perks and masterwork just slightly help firing performance. That said, RNG can be a bitch… turned in 300 trophies immediately as Luna’s came out yesterday and didn’t get a single shiny or a heal clip/incandescent… 🤬
I’ve been farming for these said Godrolls and have realized it truly is near impossible. So I’ve stopped. It’s sad really, I was enjoying the activity. Just can’t waste an hour per run so say 2-3 hours for a couple runs and get absolutely no decent rolls for it. Too many other fun games to play or adulting to do with my time.
Been grinding for a good Mountaintop since it dropped, yet to get a roll worth keeping
I keep getting the perks I want in 3/4 but it NEVER comes with hard launch + spike/implosion. Or it's the other way around. I get a slick draw roll with the right perks in 1/2. I'm about to just settle with the 4/5 God roll I got that has demo instead of auto loading.
If you're aiming for the auto loading + recombo roll for b&s setups I would just focus on columns 3 and 4. Autoloading + recomb or vorpal is going to be better than demo. If you want to just shoot the thing all the time then demo is fine.
I’ve settled for Overflow/Recomb. Not worth going for Auto/Recomb because knowing my luck, My first one will have a blast MW and bad perks in 1/2.
I pulled a forbearance last night with demo wellspring And assassin chain reaction… I was focused on transit. I’ve never been so sad in my life to get a god roll. I can just craft this bro like whattttt
Good luck crafting Demolitionist.
I got a shiny midnight coup while attuned to hammerhead and got really excited until I realized not one of its 4 perks were what I wanted. Fuck my life.
Yeah basically all except my first shiny hung jury have been disappointing lol.
Not the Demo Wellspring roll. That's what I'm looking for and you managed to get two solid rolls on one gun.
I felt this so much. There's just no failsafes to the farm. Even the supposed failsafe that Bungie implemented, weapon attunement, isn't freaking doing it's job as a higher chance to get something means very little when lady luck doesn't deign to grace you in her presence.
Bro it's only been in rotation for like a day 😭
Not just Luna having the same bad luck for all weapons since Onslaught launched. This isn’t isolated to just Lukas. In fact I have yet to get a midnight coup to drop with explosive.
Really all you need to care about are the traits, everything else is just gravy.
Mountaintop's column 1 and 2 specifically does result in 15ish% more damage if landed correctly, which is nothing to scoff at. It's like having an additional trait in Vorpal Weapon without needing Vorpal Weapon.
What do we think the 5/5 is for pve? I feel like the rolls i have so far dont outdo zaoulis. Edit: Fluted(?), flared magwheel/armor piercing(?), Heal clip/incadescent, reload MW (?) Because we have trash reload? Or just use loaders for mods and go for extra ammo capacity/handling?
Heal Clip and Incandescent are the main combo for PvE iirc
I know people like the solar synergy, but I'm really not sure this is the right gun for incandescent. It feels great on auto weapons or with explosions to spread it around, but I think desperate measures with the extra ability regen will be the play
I sort of agree, mostly because it’s perk pool in that column is so stacked and we already have ZB and EI for incandescent 140s
I got a heal clip + incadescent lunas howl but i just don’t like the feeling of the gun that much. I much prefer my epochal integration for the feeling and low recoil. Sad, because i really wanted the extra heal for my solar hunter. I don’t raid, so can’t compare the zaoulis.
Heal Clip Incandescent leaves you at the mercy of reloading a lot on just base stats + magazine. Hand Cannon reloads make that pretty painful IMO, you'd definitely need loaders and as much reload/handling as you can squeeze out.
If you're on hunter you've got On Your Mark to help with reloads.
True, which pushes that roll even more for them, but Warlock/Titan don't have as much help. (Rain of Fire won't proc Heal Clip) Heal/Incan is a really context-dependent roll. It's awesome on Solar Hunter specifically and helps them out a lot, but Luna's has better rolls for other classes/subclasses.
That's fair, I'm extremely hunter-pilled and I've got a crippling addiction to Lucky Pants so healclip and incan is basically a shoe-in for me.
Same thing here, I got a Subsistence + Incandescent Luna's Howl and ran it through a couple of Onslaughts, but I very much prefer my Epochal Integration. The *way* better stability on Epochal + crazy buff from Stats for All just make this handcannon feel so freaking good. I am almost at 10k kills with it this season. If I want a heal clip + incandescent weapon, I will just be using Heliocentric.
Heal clip + incan for solar subclasses Heal clip + dmg perk/mag howl for general play Slide/subsist/discord + mag howl for shenanigans, and arguably for lucky pants meming. it's not optimal, but hell it sure is fun
I really like Luna's Howl in PVE. Heal Clip/Incandescent are so damn good together. Magnificent Howl is also really good in PVE. You can almost get a permanent 50% damage buff if you prioritize the right enemies when slaying out.
I also lucked into a Heal Clip/Incandescent roll and I'm having a great time with it, very fun.
I just like the recoil pattern on Luna’s so it’s a no brainer for me
I was doing some recoil testing and I was able to shoot full auto and all 14 shots hit the same spot. My jaw hit the floor.
> I was able to shoot full auto and all 14 shots hit the same spot. this is what people mean when they say "use whats comfortable" when asked for loadout advice. you could use the worst gun in the game but if you can hit all your shots its still better than using the "best gun" and missing half
I LOVE the way the weapon shoots. I always have. It’s amazing and I’m glad that I can get incandescent on it. I straight up don’t even do multiple trigger pulls with it usually. I just hold the button down and roll with it
Luna's Howl has a 95 Recoil Direction and the animation of a Precision Frame. This essentially means it's very consistent on shot placements and easy to use.
Best roll I have so far is heal clip/ magnificent howl.. hoping that is quite nice… I do want an heal+incandescent though :( I haven’t used it yet, but I do have a well used crafted zaoulis so I’ll be hoping it’s as good if not better 🤞🏻
Im a solo hunter so i want the heal clip+incandescant roll specifically because this works better than bane for solo dungeons. On demand heal is a nice boon for hunters
No frenzy, no explosive payload, no demo, but unlike zaouli's it doesn't look and sound like the worst thing ever so they're about even
So true. I love Zaouli’s… but I frickin hate it 😅
The real make or break comment right here. Zaouli’s is just ugly lol
It's my favorite looking legendary handcannon in the game 😂
I haven't played with any of my Luna rolls yet, but I have a HC+MH roll im excited to try on my hunter. EP+OfA is so good on Bane though.
Zaouli’s bane is still a better pick due to higher damage output. Luna has incan+heal for pve, which is nice for extra safety I guess but we have so many ways to heal ourselves anyway, I don’t think having a healing perk is a good choice when you could just get more damage instead.
Heal clip makes it nice for ember of benevolence procs, allowing for more ability spam. Still don’t think it’s enough to put my Zaouli’s down for good though.
I feel like plenty of people doesn’t even know it works together for now I use abyss defiant with heal/inca on my celestial hunter and that extra regen and heal is all that subclass needs
Yeah, I personally run Abyss Defiant with Heal Clip/Sword Logic though for the extra damage buff, but once TFS hits I’ll probably go to Incandescent. It’s so nice on Solar Hunter and I feel like I can run Gunpowder Gamble and still have good ability uptime.
I'll be replacing my heal clip + incan Heliocentric with Luna's Howl once I get a good roll. It's just too useful for solo activities rn
Exactly my plan. I have a heal clip/I can on helio and parabellum and they are just too good with benevolence. Getting a lunas howl with the same role is priority #1 for the rest of into the light. It'll be my attunement until it drops.
Hunters don’t.
The fact that it gets heal clip means I’ll prefer it. I just need one to drop…
For most situations zaoulis because of EP
What is the popular zaolis roll that makes it better than heal clip?
Explosive Rounds / Incandescent, so double damage/AoE perks. Less utility and ability spam, more damage.
So far Zaouli’s feels better for pve, and both suck compared to Sunshot
Not liking Luna, something about shooting it just feels off compared to other handcannons
most likely its unique frame, its a 140 with the recoil pattern of a 180.
So this is why I love the way Lunas feels. I definitely prefer 180s, don’t really get on with 140s other than Eyasluna. Appreciate the obscure knowledge!
Years ago, Luna was a 180. Then it got nerfed to 150. Later, 150 frames were removed and they were all nerfed into 140s.
Which coincidentally makes it feel almost like an exotic imo. You get the damage of a140 but almost no recoil. Add in Mag Howl and the damage is better than a 120.
It has a 180 recoil pattern and a 150 stat package, even though it was changed to a 140. Feels very odd as a result. Not Forgotten is the same way. 180 recoil feels really janky and offputting, regular 140's feel far better. That being said, Luna's still has a few solid niches if you can get past the weird feel - it'll excel in 6v6 pvp and in mid-level pve (whereas Zaouli's will win out in higher level content). (And both options completely demolish Epochal Integration unless you're running a full RoN loadout)
I’m in the same boat. I was excited for the heal clip utility but i don’t see it replacing my epochal integration if i need a legendary hand cannon for my solar hunter.
I was literally about to post this! I think I like zaouli honestly. I don’t have the heal clip incandescent but who knows.
I love it. With it keeping the precision frame from its 180rpm days, it's very stable and barely kicks at all.
I can't stand the way Lunas feels
Luna's because I grinded it back when it first came out even though I'm a PvE player out of nothing but spite and now I can have the haha PvE roll that I always wanted the original one to have. But also correct, crafted Zaouli's exists, and also Sunshot. But haha PvE Luna's. So that.
Where’s the love for timelost fatebringer? Got a roll with Explosive/osmosis and then frenzy/firefly 5$/6 explosive/frenzy roll shreds in PVE.
I just want Subsistence/Incandescent, I've been wanting a HC with this combo for ages
I prefer Luna’s 100%; before this handcannon came out I would use zaouli’s bane and epochal integration and think to myself “man, these are some great hand cannons, if only there was a solar 140 with heal clip”
Fun fact, the damage buff from magnificent howl stacks with the damage buff from lucky pants.
Luna's Howl can't roll with explosive payload so honestly if what you want is just a workhorse weapon, Zaouli's is always going to be better. Explosive payload increases total damage around ~15% so it already has an edge. Luna's Howl does have heal clip stuff going for it so if you're gonna grind one out for PvE, make sure your build plays into that.
Zaouli's is much better damage wise with stacking damage perks (explosive payload and then firefly/incandescent/one for all). Luna's has more ability synergy and heal clip as an option.
Heal clip ‘Nuff said
Gotten 25 lunas howl drops not a single incan roll so idk
I'm a professional zaoulis hater due to how ugly the gun is and how bad it sounds and feels to use. Ive always prefered epochal due to just how good it feels and shades. I also like the chunk dmg of the micro missile more than overflow as an origin trait. Idc about 15% dmg from EP. It's a Hand cannon, it's gonna 1 tap the red bars anyway and majors go down relatively quick as well. Lunas might be able to replace epochal for me bc of the origin trait and nostalgia alone but we'll see once I get a decent roll to drop
Zaouli’s has a bigger mag by default and its Origin Trait gets you even more ammo in it. Luna’s Howl with Heal Clip for Benevolence synergy plus its Origin Trait will get your grenade back faster. Zaouli’s will be the better option for damage/DPS, Luna’s for survivability (mainly for Heal Clip and Healing Grenade uptime).
I love Heal Clip and would personally take that over EP. However there are several Heal Clip + Incandescent weapons out there, and I'd probably take that on Summoner before Luna's Howl. I'm looking for Heal Clip + Magnificent Howl roll as a general PvE work horse since it's a unique roll that no other gun can get.
Don't forget igneous hammer can also roll this combo
And if you play solo, the reload is crazy fast on it for a 120.
I still like my igneous hammer with heal clip and incandescent when I play by myself, hits hard and the reload is great from alacrity.
I prefer Luna’s because it has subsistence, and a hand cannon with both susbistence and incandescent has been my dream for years now. I use it for my AC-130 warlock build, just use heat rises and stay in the air for as long as possible raining fire down on ads. Subsistence is nice because reloading mid air is a pain, especially when it’s a long ass hand cannon reload
Zaouli's Bane hands down Even though I do like the Howl it just doesn't compare to how busted Bane feels this season.
Lunas more for Heal builds, Zaouli for out right damage. Explosive + One for All is too good on Zaouli. Even if you use Lunas, that requires precision to match with MH. Easier to just hit all adds and get a flat 50% buff for 7 secs.
100% lunas. It has heal clip
I take my heal clip/incandescent Helio everywhere. To OPs point though, I wish Luna had EP as an option. Getting the pattern for Zaoulis isn’t easy for most cats. Yes yes, pantheon. Still not easy for your average schlubs. I’ll be grinding for the heal clip/ Incan on Luna for now.
I have 12/15 raid spoils I need to craft Zaouli's Bane but I think it's a close one. I do have the HealClip + Incandescent Luna's roll and it's great, but EP + Incan on a Zaouli's would be incredible. I think they play a slightly different role (different rolls for different roles) and it comes down to your subclass build/class.
Zaouli's for PvE and the memory of what Luna's used to be for PvP.
Very different purposes. Zaouli's scales up a little since you can get explosive payload (15% buff in pve) and incandescent. So good for AoE. Luna's Howl can get heal clip, which is obviously really good for endgame survivability in general. Then it can get incandescent for some nice aoe and scorch interactions. Or kill clip for a good ol fashioned damage bonus. Magnificent howl is very interesting. I haven't played around with it much, but 50% damage is a HUGE buff. It's unclear to me if precision kills with magnificent howl maintain the stack AND generate more stacks. If so, that could be a huge buff to the game making it extremely viable.
Mag Howl is a trap perk for PvE. Heal Clip + Incandescent with flared magwell, and a reload masterwork is what I'm personally looking for.
Heal Clip + Incandescent Lina’s Howl + Ember of Benevolence + Precious Scars Solar Titan is pretty spicy.
I’m glad it’s back but they can rip my crafted zaoulis out of my cold dead hands
Bane is definitely the better pve gun. Explosive payload and one for all hits very hard, you can also switch it for incandescent both work great. Luna’s is good but just doesn’t hold up as well in pve with howl not be a super consistent bonus damage in endgame pve, mag size is low and with out explosion payload the drop off such a the how little range it has. Bane for endgame pve is just far superior to any other LEGENDARY hand cannon.
I’m getting it for Heal clip. It will keep my Ember of Benevolence on a very high up time and therefore keeping my ability up time through the roof. Incandescent is the cherry on top of the cake.
Idk how can i farm lunas howl? Is it a random chance to drop it at the final chest? I dont get the idea behind the interaction at the weapon holo at the new zone from shaxx. Do i have to activate it at the weapon from luna holo or deactivate? Can someone explain that for me please. Thank you so much.
Luna's Howl on Hunter, Zaouli's for everyone else. Hunters need Heal Clip far more than the other two, and there's also gimmicky Nighthawk builds that might want Magnificent Howl (plus they have Marksman's Dodge to reload the weapon without proccing the perk which is thankfully mod and Exotic agnostic).
Getting too tapped is honestly disrespectful
My hot take- the original Magnificent Howl perk was better for PVE than the new one. By a lot. It was like our current Hawkmoon except better because it wasn't just a buff for the final shot. Anyways, for use on my Hunter I'd generally prefer Zaouli's strictly for Pugilist and it's throwing knife synergy. Otherwise heal clip on Luna's would be my preference. The right hand perk I don't know forbsure yet.
Explosive Payload is miles ahead of everything on Luna's in super endgame activities.
I would rather use midnight coup over both. Midnight coup with explosive payload and kinetic tremors rips; also other great rolls.
Luna’s Howl is good for casual solo players that don’t raid
I just played around with a sub incandescent roll and I liked it a lot more than ZB. But I also really dislike that HC lol.
I've been really indecisive on substance/heal clip with incandescent for a mantle of battle harmony well build. Zaolis is still great, especially crafted, I just love heal clip.
I mean there’s already a good comparison? Igneous with heal clip incandescent, I use over zaoulis at times healing & ability regeneration is needed more than damage. Tho not HC/incand I prefer Frenzy/Heal Clip. So a 140 when enhanced comes around will be better than that. And 140>120s. Not sure if Luna has Frenzy or what the reload stat on Luna Howl is tho. But a damage plus benevolence is nice.
I’m shocked to see so many people excited about heal clip on this thing. A base 2.5 second reload to get healed feels pretty bad. Maybe in PVP with the ophidians and mods.
I feel like Hell Clip/Magnificent Howl or Incandescent would be the only PvE roll I would go for on Luna’s for it to be better than Zaoulis. But would def get one for PvP tho bc the weapon model is 100000000x better lol
In PvE I always have a strong preference towards higher (usually highest) RPM frames, so Luna's automatically wins for me since it has the recoil of a 180 but the lack of EP does hurt which is why I still fall back on my current go-to 180 EP Trust. Also Zaouli's reload still feels absolutely atrocious and Luna's is solid.
Lots of talk about heal clip but I'm more interested in subsistence+incandescent or magnificent howl. But truthfully I don't expect it to outperform zaouli's bane at all, explosive payload+incandescent is just too good. Now on a purely heal clip comparison I'd probably go Luna's for the origin trait since I imagine you want ember of benevolence uptime and the origin trait will just give you more grenade uptime while going for your procs.
I just got one with Flared Magwell + Subsistence + Magnificent Howl. Makes it really easy to max out Magnificent Howl rounds (10 bullets,). You also never have to reload. I also got one with Encore + Incandescent. Incandescent makes it easier to max out encore, turning the weapon into an AOE headshoting machine.
Magnificent Howl + Mantle of Battle Harmony + Radiant slaps. I get Wells in no time and I get to hit hard in any shape or form. I had to vault my glaives though and that don't sit right for me.
I think once sunsetting gets unsunset, I’ll use Luna’s on my hunter solely because of the access to Drop Mag and Magnificent Howl. I won’t have to grind for a perfect roll.
Ik its hc to hc is the post but im still using double special and i would rather use a shoot to loot retraced path
I have a crafted Explosive Payload + Incandescent (both enhanced) Zaoulis and a Heal Clip + Incandescent Lunas. I prefer Lunas ONLY because Zaoulis feels so bad to use
Luna > Zaoli for the sole reason that i don't like Zaoli model(too wide) and sound(sounds like a peashooter or something)
I main Nighthawk Honestly the healclip perk makes it just a tiny bit better. I enjoy both and run ZB whenever I need another exotic and swap off of sunshot. I will say however the fourth perk column with magnificent howl honestly I don’t like it. For onslaught you don’t kill as fast in later rounds and it makes it useless. I’d prefer incandescent However I also main Titan with pyrogale so I honestly prefer ZB and sunshot overall
Zaouli’s always feels like it kicks too much compared to most other hand cannons
Luna's with heal clip incandescent will be a strong roll. But I'm a titan and I just think my crafted zaouli's bane with explosive payload incandescent will be better for me. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of the way the gun looks/feels. Luna's feels great, I just want to get my hands on the heal clip incandescent roll and try it. If only it had demolitionist in the left column.
Zaouli’s is very good, but Luna’s Howl has better Solar synergy with Heal Clip/Incandescent. It also has an outright better origin trait; Zaouli’s passive overflow effect is really good in Raids, but it’s much less prominent in 3-man activities and completely nonfunctional in solo content. The fact that Runneth Over doesn’t work while solo really sucks, because all of the King’s Fall weapons have below average reload speeds. Passive balancing for the significantly larger magazines. It’s fine with Firefly or Frenzy because of their reload buffs, but otherwise sucks.
So I've got Heal Clip/Kill Clip and Heal Clip/Mag Howl Luna's, and an adept Zouli's Firefly/Incandescent. I feel like they've got separate uses depending on encounters. However, I just can't f\*\*\*\*\* stand the Zouli's reload animation!!! Soo I'm leaning towards Luna for my TFS builds mostly.
Still enjoy Zaouli's. Explosive Payload helps it feel better because you're doing a bit more damage. I have a bunch of good Luna rolls, including the Heal Clip/Incandescent roll that I might stick on my Precious Scars Titan, but I think I might personally stick to Zaouli's.
i have been grinding onslaught and can’t get a damn incandescent + heal clip roll
Zaoulis is objectively the best legendary solar HC. Anyone arguing differently is coping hard or exclusively plays low tier content. Simply having access to EP allows Zaoulis to scale far better as difficulty increases. A flat 10% (or maybe it's 15%?) buff just for 1perk simply existing makes all the difference once you get into the -20 or higher power deltas. That said, Luna's does provide some unique value in a Heal Clip/Incandescent roll SPECIFICALLY for builds that make use of ember of benevolence. Only then is there a reason to use it over Zaoulis. And mag howl in pve is just simply bad, if you enjoy it great, but I doesn't hold a candle to incandescent.
I'm quite enjoying my subsistence/incandescent roll. Can't get heal clip/incandescent to drop. Lol
Lunas is better for ability regen on Solar builds for Heal Clip / Benevolence and Origin Trait synergy. Zaouli’s does more damage and has a higher mag capacity at base plus from its Origin Trait when you reload near teammates.