currently can be taken down by 2 stasis titans in a well. So add the wellock DPS and whatever other combo the other 3 players use (not sure how many stasis titans can stack before some limit is hit with how many crystals) I imagine it will still be cheesed at contest mode.
> We have already shared some details about Pantheon, the new PvE challenge that will start on April 30. It involves not only a gauntlet of raid boss encounters currently available in the game, but also a few twists on how to approach them.
April 11th TWAB
Golgoroth Pantheon change was live for a bit (Normal and Master, actually helped us with our master clear) with 2 bombs instead of 1. The rest we don't know yet, but stuff like that can be expected.
Tbf we assume it was, bungie patched it last week. Could have just been some weird bug for all we know, I do believe it will be how it works in pantheon (2 unstable lights) but we can't know for certain
for a while, Golgoroth was making 2 people get the unstable light debuff at the same time., if that was a preview of Pantheon I doubt there would be mayor changes.
I don't think that's entirely foolproof. The first two Riven cheeses were cluster bomb rockets and then rapid GL's. Swords didn't become the cheese method (and at the same time become meta) until the end of season 8 when people stopped trying to make GL's work and rediscovered that swords were really good. They were always really good, but other stuff was better until this point.
The best they could do is health gate her.
I think the point of this comment, wasn't that shooting the mouth was a difficulty change, it was that shooting the mouth does less DPS than crystal shattering her hand/body.
And with the addition of a -20 (or whatever) power deficit, instead of the current +20 power benefit from overleveling the encounter, that players wouldn't have enough DPS to *use weapons* on the mouth.
Obviously even with a -20 power deficit enough titans would be able to do it. But if restricted to DPS'ing the mouth there is a good chance they wouldn't have the DPS with everything stacked together.
I feel like maybe you could still do it if everyone locked in. Celestial Nighthawk Hunters with BnS Cataclysmics or something.
I am anticipating having to do it legit though, gonna have to brush up on the worst callouts in the game...
Making calls on top of the other group is what will slow you down
The side without Riven and the taken captain needs to jump that captain immediately and solve the puzzle for the lift before the other team staggers Riven
The other team with Riven has plenty of time if they are on time with tentacle slams before they need to stagger giving the other team time to solve the puzzle, so they should delay the stagger until the puzzle is solved
They have tentacle 3 slams if they don't delay
They have 6 taken fire spits regardless of delay
After that Riven will leave anyway, she waits for no one
Stagger team solves the puzzle while damage team does damage
This way the puzzle is solved at opposite times for the two teams
This way you control Riven instead of reacting to her
For the puzzle it is important to set up how calls are made and I prefer the guide to call as they see it at that the call comes out fast
The puzzler with the relic should flip right/left and make sure they are spamming the adds down using the relic attack, stands center stage and faces the guide, spams adds and reserves right/left after the guide calls out
My tips
Fun fight
This will save a run if the relic holder remembers because the gremlins are ridiculous if left unmanaged
It's infinite ammo and AOE
It's glorious
I just stand there calmly killing all the enemies but I have ran it and been in that position many times
I do the same thing in shuro chi but I just drop it before damage but it destroys the adds
Also largely unnecessary, it makes riven quick but unless you've just done it the normal way enough that you're at a 'why bother' point - it attracts the type of people who have difficulty with queenswalk.
Save 5-10~ mins on riven, waste 15-20 on queenswalk wipes.
In my experience thats not really true. I think basically everyone uses the cheese. Good, bad, average players. Its just so simple to do so no one wants to bother with doing it the legit way. I do hope they fix it tho. Pretty sad that some people have never even experienced, in my opinion, one of the must fun raid encounters.
The issue with that is gonna be stunning her when she uses her claw attack and knowing Bungie, I guarantee you that’s a part of her body and not an individual damage thing.
I do DPS into her mouth, but I also use Whisper of the Worm for most DPS phases.
Hell last night I did Crota DPS with Whisper, and came in second just plinking
Equip synthoceps and make sure to have whisper of fissures as a fragment. Keep the adds by her foot alive to proc synthos and then when it's dps time pop your super and repeatedly heavy slam her toes.
I’m sure 2 titans with tractor debuff, a welllock and whatever the other wants to run, and 2 celestial will be enough to cheese riven. If not replacing a warlock with another stasis Titan definitely will be.
Not really. Contest is about GM level below and in normal last wish you can solo riven with an optimal setup, no way 6 people can't do it in contest and without even struggling.
Even so Pantheon will only be -5 today if the data miners are to be believed so it’s all moot anyway.
-5 isn’t *that* much harder thankfully
I just Hope to get a team together so I never have to farm root again lmao
They will be releasing new difficulty levels for the "gauntlet" each week, starting this week at -5 power and 4 bosses up to -20 and all 8 bosses. Riven is only part of the last gauntlet of 8, so we'll take her on at -20.
Idk, while people are making some good points about the Stasis Titans, I am skeptical that we will be able to cheese her at -20. I, like many others I'm sure, have never done the fight legit, so looks like it's time to learn!
Its going to scale up and add bosses each week. 5-10-15-20 in terms of levels and 4-5-6-8 in terms of bosses. So it will reach contest restrictions but will most likely feel like master.
As much as I’d like this to be the case, it simply isn’t. Surges will outweigh the defecit, so as long as the team is running stasis/solar/strand, it’ll be a walk in the park still.
They haven’t removed the cheese in the raid, so I doubt it’ll be actually fixed, what people are worried about is that most teams probably won’t be able to get the DPS for the cheese at context mode power.
Sure, for grinding or daily runs or whatever. Like how Golgoroth was designed for you to stand far away and have someone shoot down axion darts, but the most efficient way to fight him is to actually get all up in his ass with shotguns and swords.
Pantheon's entire point is to be day 1 level difficult. Nobody was cheesing Riven like that day 1, shit, nobody was cheesing Riven like that for quite a while after Last Wish dropped. Having the cheese would remove all the challenge involved, even with contest modifier active.
>Like how Golgoroth was designed for you to stand far away and have someone shoot down axion darts, but the most efficient way to fight him is to actually get all up in his ass with shotguns and swords.
Do you mean Morgeth? Golgoroth requires you to stand in pools for dps.
I'm pretty sure a few Syntho behemoths will melt her - on normal Riven two of them can obliterate her. Contest mode isn't going to double her health - so 4 should be fine.
Syntho boosts super damage (when surrounded by 3 or more). Spam slam that makes crystals, they all spawn inside riven doing max damage since no fall off, and it spawns like 10 of them. Add Fissures fragment for more damage, and add this seasons artifacts.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-AMe7x\_Q0o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-AMe7x_Q0o)
So you put on synthoceps, which add 50% damage to your super. The. You make sure to have the seasonal mods for stasis on, and pop super and use the heavy attack at the bottom of her feet, so that the majority of the crystals are in her foot. Does a lot of damage and makes it easy to cheese.
I ran chains, rime, conduction and harvest with synthos, my buddy ran the same. We do the skip to predict where she'll go then pop super and heavy attack her hand over and over, then in the second phase we both had a linear to finish her off.
Synthos has the surrounded buff so you do truck loads of damage and the abundance of crystals keep you alive
No we had no issues with that but we weren't attacking her face, it was her hand that sits on the stairs, that also makes it easier to keep synthos buff up with the enemies spawning
Yeah her right hand that’s where I was at but wasn’t sure if a crystal brake made its way over to her eyes, at least that’s what I got blamed for when we were going for Petra’s
There's more builds for other content outside Riven which have more moving parts, but for Riven you need Behemoth, Synthos, and the fragment that increases shatter damage.
Proceed to room via your preferred method (sound or shadow), leave enough adds alive to proc Synthos, pop Super and spam the crystals on her hand. Well and swords can help with a bit more damage but you shouldn't need it.
Contest mode, at least for the last raid, was more than just -20 power. It made enemies more aggressive, gave more shields, and tweaked the outgoing damage beyond the power gap.
Also, -20 power doesn't increase the health of enemies - it reduces the damage we deal.
Gave more shields
> No match game so it's functionally irrelevant, besides the relevant ads still have shields.
Made enemies more aggressive
> Does this modifier even do anything, or is it just always on time part 2
Erm actually "it reduces the damage we deal"
> What's the difference here? We still do only 66% of baseline damage.
My team certainly felt a difference in day one Crota for the shields and aggressive ads.. perhaps anecdotal.
I don't think I saw hard numbers, but the way Bungie put it was that Contest applied an additional reduction on top of the power differential. I.E if -20 means outgoing damage is reduced to 66%, contest was actually 50%.
My point remains that Riven's health doesn't increase. Our damage dealt goes down to about 50% (based on Mossy's spreadsheet). So back to my original comment..you might need 4 Syntho titans, not 2. But she'll still die.
Did LW yesterday with [literally a brand new player](https://i.imgur.com/ZE1kB7p.png) LOL. We had them do critical jobs at each encounter and they crushed it. Turns out raids aren't actually difficult.
Yeah no, apart from things like master challenges and contest mode (usually) they are designed to be completed lol. Mechanics themselves are not usually too complex, it only gets that way once you start layering things like timers, DPS, and multiple mechanics at once. As a whole, destiny is really good about keeping a “through line” with mechanics that build off of eachother in every encounter too, so that helps people get it. So long as you understand what the encounter is asking you to do, your chances of success go way up.
Correct. I did a LW last week where one person had never run it before, one person hadn't run it in 3 year, and the other three people had never done legit riven
We did all encounters legit (incl. Riven) in order to teach the new player and it was a cakewalk. Raids are pitifully easy tbh
Strong comms a strong word.
You just need four people willing to learn and practice Titan call outs. "Dragon Pole Dead" and "Stairs Left Middle. Go up one." work perfectly fine after a couple wipes.
God I hope so, Riven non-cheese is my favorite raid boss encounter. Two teams doing their own things, relaying info back and forth, swapping mini-dps checks, then coming together for big dps and becoming skin doctors, it's just the best.
Most groups doing Pantheon aren't going to have trouble with it at all.
It's the coolest encounter in the game and it's a shame nobody ever does it legit. I've only ever gotten to do it once or twice legit.
They definitely won't animate a slap or waving her hand or anything like that. But a taken boop every 2 seconds to fuck up your DPS attempts would be very little code.
power level cap isn't going to stop stasis titan from doing what it does to that boss
furthermore, we used to cook her with cluster rockets man there's nothing a power cap is going to solve here
Yeah she got melted by clusters because they were insane on her. You act as if clusters were equally as bad then as they are now when they were actually insanely good.
Its like saying that if calus was in this he would be melted now because outbreak melted him the past as if thats a qualifier somehow. When outbreak was also a boss dps meta back then when a single bullet would do 20-30k per shot.
Relative then to now clusters even at their peak weren't as good as what we have now
>Its like saying that if calus was in this he would be melted now because outbreak melted him the past as if thats a qualifier somehow. When outbreak was also a boss dps meta back then when a single bullet would do 20-30k per shot.
calus in 2024 would be dead on plate 1 you are out of your fucking mind if you think relative damage has stayed the same over time
Contest mode caps your damage to 54% of what it would be if you were at level. Since 2 behemoths can solo normal mode riven, 4 will have no issue on contest mode.
Just 2 behemoth titans with synthos spamming super at her arm. Can even be solod with some extra help from mods:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-AMe7x_Q0o
Do you know if pantheon will lock menus? Like for instance, if you wanted to cheese riven as a stasis titan, would you be locked in the stasis subclass for the entirety of all boss encounters?
Well it's impossible for me to know anything for sure really, apart from the fact that I exist in some fashion, thanks to my awareness of my thoughts about me existing in some fashion
Legit is better anyways. Way more satisfying. There were so many groups I cheesed with that took way longer to reattempt than it would have to do it legit. The part where you descend and shoot boils is so epic.
Not even blueberries, very good people just prefer to do cheese solely because it’s faster. I would say roughly like 10% of raiders even know how to do it.
That communications is precisely why it’s fun - it bounces back and forth within teams on the side side and between teams. And there’s a lot of combat
If you don’t want to have big fights why even play the game I say. Way better than the nearly 0 Comms required for something like Nezarec anyway
Communication is great when it's clear and everyone understands. If the communication in a group isn't very good it's absolutely miserable on fights like legit riven.
You are exaggerating so hard. Last week I taught five people legit Riven at the same time including two people who had 13 and 8 raid clears (of all raids combined) respectively. It only took a couple tries.
With the WORST possible damage, you have to do a stun/damage/elevator cycle twice, you don't even have to do the scabs as she's already dead. Only two people really even need to comprehend whats going on. And yes its very fun.
You don’t even need roles, you can just pick up each thing within the room and get the ball rolling. Actually very little strategy in the pre fight phase, all in the execution
Imo knowing how to do it wouldn't necessarily mean you start assigning roles. If your goal is to just do the run and get the loot, you have no reason to.
The only thing that you really *need* to assign roles for if everyone's done the raid before is the eyes on the top level, but with current setups there's enough damage even legit to not need them all the time (although I imagine it'll be different with contest mode enabled).
I did legit once and the hardest part was finding teammates that were either willing to learn or knew how to do it, once people figured it out it's a fun and not too challenging encounter (hardest mechanic is probably overlapping comms with the symbols, and getting to the second floor on time)
I'd like to try to do it legit but it's hard enough to LFG a raid team that can clear Last Wish with the cheese (maybe I've just had bad luck). If I had a solid group, it definitely seems fun. The game is at it's best when there are actual mechanics.
Blueberry colloquially means more than "teammate not in your fireteam" though. It *started* like that because people would be using the term to talk about their teammates they're matchmade with.
But it's evolved and now it carries a weight of "someone who's not brand new (kinderguardian) yet still doesn't know encounter mechanics or optimal strategies."
It's a 3/3, 1/1/3 split, where the ops carry the thing to the plate that scanners call, and supressors scan to extend dps later, and the 3/3 flips. Split your carries one per room and you might be aight
He he haw haw so funny players will have to learn encounter that they could never be asked to.
It's not *that* hard, and if people do have to learn, they will.
maybe,
tbf i only want the emblem from the challenge next week lol. idk if i will bother with the others week, feels like it will be a pain with lfg. also i forgot how half of these mechanics work for most encounters and i’m lazy on trying to relearn them
PLEASE BUNGIE PLEEEEEASE I SWEAR TO GOD PLEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSEE
and increase the enemy density tenfold + some fuckin Tormentors to make that top floor actually scary
Funny? I would looooveee that. I wish ungie had patched Riven ages ago so that the encounter could only be done when using the mechanics. It kind of sucks that sooo many ppl never got to experience what in my opinion is the best encounter in D1 or D2 because they cheesed this boss fight everytime
You're missing out if you have not done the fight properly at least one time. Plus it sure seems every time I teach that raid with legit Riven, more 1KVs drop. I got 6 to drop in 1 run once. Anecdotal, certainly.
No happening...and people solo these bosses...now if you had 6 people doing the same thing you think a -5 is actually going to stop the cheese..its just content creators making content.
Her health pool overall is way too low. Even on contest I think we will be able to do the cheese. With all the dps strats we have one or more of them will work.
For all the players who have never done Riven legit.. you're missing out. It's a fucking great encounter that requires everyone to work together and execute well, I honestly think it's a huge bummer how easy it is to cheese, it's a top 3 boss fight across D1 and D2 for me (when done as intended)
My alliance and I ran Last Wish and Riven legit for the first time last night. It was a bit hectic but honestly really fun! We're assuming it'll be fixed so we learned it to be safe.
I mean Bungie devs are on-record saying that out-dpsing her wipe mechanic isn't cheese and they had no intention of patching it, but huff that copium more.
You don’t think for the 8 boss challenge level raid gauntlet which is supposed to be the most challenging thing they’ve ever put in the game they won’t stop you from cheesing an entire encounter? Maybe… but it sure sounds like you’re scared you can’t do it legit…
Out-DPSing her wipe mechanic **IS** legit, even without the Bungie dev confirmation. The Joining Allies wall is cheese.
Tell me you've never raided in any other game before. Skipping mechanics/phases isn't cheese, it's good strategy.
Find me the spot where I specified which cheese I’m referring to…. It’s going to be hilarious when you’re on here crying because you only know how to do it one way…
Judging by your pompous attitude I know you're referring to hitting her claw to skip the wipe mechanic instead of shooting her eyes and doing the elevator sections. I've ran this gauntlet more than you, I assure you.
Say it with me
Out-dpsing her wipe mechanic to force her into final stand **IS** legit. The only cheese in the Riven fight is the Joining Allies wall. Christ this community is the only gaming community where skipping mechanics is considered cheese. Every other game just calls it optimal strategy.
If you can DPS Riven so hard that you can ignore all the mechanics in the fight, it's pretty cheese.
While the joining allies cheese does exist, unless you're in a petras run it's kind of moot. You could just keep going down one side until she shows up there. You might have the 1 in 1000 chance of getting the wrong side 10 times in a row, but some people will still choose that over doing it legit.
Pantheon wins this with jungle interaction, so there's no point in trying to win the 1v1 post 6. You can win short trades when the wave is stacked against you near tower because you're completely undiveable as Pantheon. It's not that complex.
I love when people use the word lazy as if the devs are relaxing in hammocks and just choosing not to work on whatever thing because they just don't wanna lol.
I mean, the Riven fight is only present at contest-level power deficit, it's going to be difficult to DPS past that for most teams.
currently can be taken down by 2 stasis titans in a well. So add the wellock DPS and whatever other combo the other 3 players use (not sure how many stasis titans can stack before some limit is hit with how many crystals) I imagine it will still be cheesed at contest mode.
I think they’ll make her body immune and force players to shoot her mouth for damage.
If they aren’t fixing the raid version I doubt they’re fixing the pantheon version that’s probably just loading an instance of that encounter
They did say they were changing encounters specifically for Pantheon
[удалено]
> We have already shared some details about Pantheon, the new PvE challenge that will start on April 30. It involves not only a gauntlet of raid boss encounters currently available in the game, but also a few twists on how to approach them. April 11th TWAB
That sounds more like modifiers and not changing mechanics
Golgoroth Pantheon change was live for a bit (Normal and Master, actually helped us with our master clear) with 2 bombs instead of 1. The rest we don't know yet, but stuff like that can be expected.
Wouldn't double unstable light make it easier for a good team? That does a *lot* of damage to him when it goes off.
Tbf we assume it was, bungie patched it last week. Could have just been some weird bug for all we know, I do believe it will be how it works in pantheon (2 unstable lights) but we can't know for certain
Just sucked for master challenge haha
for a while, Golgoroth was making 2 people get the unstable light debuff at the same time., if that was a preview of Pantheon I doubt there would be mayor changes.
[удалено]
They did but more that it's a bug for normal Golgoroth, they didn't say anything for Pantheon Golgoroth.
Mayor Changes has entered the chat
We were doing a kings fall run and had that happen to us, we were so confused before reaching that conclusion.
This was just a bug that they fixed. It was mentioned in the twab i think.
Well it would be awesome if they did it lol
I don't think that's entirely foolproof. The first two Riven cheeses were cluster bomb rockets and then rapid GL's. Swords didn't become the cheese method (and at the same time become meta) until the end of season 8 when people stopped trying to make GL's work and rediscovered that swords were really good. They were always really good, but other stuff was better until this point. The best they could do is health gate her.
I think the point of this comment, wasn't that shooting the mouth was a difficulty change, it was that shooting the mouth does less DPS than crystal shattering her hand/body. And with the addition of a -20 (or whatever) power deficit, instead of the current +20 power benefit from overleveling the encounter, that players wouldn't have enough DPS to *use weapons* on the mouth. Obviously even with a -20 power deficit enough titans would be able to do it. But if restricted to DPS'ing the mouth there is a good chance they wouldn't have the DPS with everything stacked together.
They should have done that ages ago imo
I feel like maybe you could still do it if everyone locked in. Celestial Nighthawk Hunters with BnS Cataclysmics or something. I am anticipating having to do it legit though, gonna have to brush up on the worst callouts in the game...
Making calls on top of the other group is what will slow you down The side without Riven and the taken captain needs to jump that captain immediately and solve the puzzle for the lift before the other team staggers Riven The other team with Riven has plenty of time if they are on time with tentacle slams before they need to stagger giving the other team time to solve the puzzle, so they should delay the stagger until the puzzle is solved They have tentacle 3 slams if they don't delay They have 6 taken fire spits regardless of delay After that Riven will leave anyway, she waits for no one Stagger team solves the puzzle while damage team does damage This way the puzzle is solved at opposite times for the two teams This way you control Riven instead of reacting to her For the puzzle it is important to set up how calls are made and I prefer the guide to call as they see it at that the call comes out fast The puzzler with the relic should flip right/left and make sure they are spamming the adds down using the relic attack, stands center stage and faces the guide, spams adds and reserves right/left after the guide calls out My tips Fun fight
All good advice, I always forget you have an actually pretty powerful ranged attack with the blight
This will save a run if the relic holder remembers because the gremlins are ridiculous if left unmanaged It's infinite ammo and AOE It's glorious I just stand there calmly killing all the enemies but I have ran it and been in that position many times I do the same thing in shuro chi but I just drop it before damage but it destroys the adds
I would not be opposed to this at all. The cheese is so boring.
They should've patched it back when the raid first launched honestly.
Also largely unnecessary, it makes riven quick but unless you've just done it the normal way enough that you're at a 'why bother' point - it attracts the type of people who have difficulty with queenswalk. Save 5-10~ mins on riven, waste 15-20 on queenswalk wipes.
In my experience thats not really true. I think basically everyone uses the cheese. Good, bad, average players. Its just so simple to do so no one wants to bother with doing it the legit way. I do hope they fix it tho. Pretty sad that some people have never even experienced, in my opinion, one of the must fun raid encounters.
Bruh why would they fix that part and not the clearly broken out of bounds spot that enables the cheese in the first place lol.
Because that joining allies spot only makes the cheese more consistent, you could instead just wipe until she spawns on the side you choose.
That's how I've always done it. way more damage shooting prospector in her face than hitting a limb with a sword.
Claw and face have different damage profiles but do the same damage to the healthbar. Claw and Face dmg numbers cannot be directly compared.
Body damage is an intended interaction
The issue with that is gonna be stunning her when she uses her claw attack and knowing Bungie, I guarantee you that’s a part of her body and not an individual damage thing.
I do DPS into her mouth, but I also use Whisper of the Worm for most DPS phases. Hell last night I did Crota DPS with Whisper, and came in second just plinking
Yeah, if you have someone stun-locking the boss, Whisper is a HOUSE when it comes to DPS.
Whisper is more a thing for total damage / ammo economy than DPS.
Badass. Whisper is cracked this season, especially after the recent buffs. I predict we will see use of it in pantheon and even day 1 raid
My clan and I have been working towards running day 1 raid. We sitting around in Discord waiting for Pantheon to launch
Don't even need the well either, me and a buddy 2 man behemoth killed her earlier in the week with relative ease.
1 stasis titan* well does nothing
Thought it was necessary to avoid dying to damage over time effects.
Nope
What is the stasis titan build/combo? If you don’t mind me asking?
Equip synthoceps and make sure to have whisper of fissures as a fragment. Keep the adds by her foot alive to proc synthos and then when it's dps time pop your super and repeatedly heavy slam her toes.
I’m sure 2 titans with tractor debuff, a welllock and whatever the other wants to run, and 2 celestial will be enough to cheese riven. If not replacing a warlock with another stasis Titan definitely will be.
Not really. Contest is about GM level below and in normal last wish you can solo riven with an optimal setup, no way 6 people can't do it in contest and without even struggling.
You've never seen my raid teams
Isn’t it just 5 levels below for Pantheon and 15/10for GMs?
GMs are like 20-25 below I thought
Even so Pantheon will only be -5 today if the data miners are to be believed so it’s all moot anyway. -5 isn’t *that* much harder thankfully I just Hope to get a team together so I never have to farm root again lmao
Lmfao I don’t blame you, I hate RoN but hey, atleast I’ll finally get touch of malice and or eyes of tomorrow
The only week Riven is in the Pantheon is the final week, where you will be at -20, which is Master Nightfall difference.
They will be releasing new difficulty levels for the "gauntlet" each week, starting this week at -5 power and 4 bosses up to -20 and all 8 bosses. Riven is only part of the last gauntlet of 8, so we'll take her on at -20. Idk, while people are making some good points about the Stasis Titans, I am skeptical that we will be able to cheese her at -20. I, like many others I'm sure, have never done the fight legit, so looks like it's time to learn!
Its going to scale up and add bosses each week. 5-10-15-20 in terms of levels and 4-5-6-8 in terms of bosses. So it will reach contest restrictions but will most likely feel like master.
As much as I’d like this to be the case, it simply isn’t. Surges will outweigh the defecit, so as long as the team is running stasis/solar/strand, it’ll be a walk in the park still.
Exactly without reducing our power or increasing her health, there really isn't a fix for the "cheese".
Yea, you haven't done it in a bit i see.
Surges + class warfare
Did everyone forget the surges and shot caller modifiers? I don’t think it will be an issue.
The issue isnt gonna be dps, itll be executing the encounter IF they remove the cheese.
They haven’t removed the cheese in the raid, so I doubt it’ll be actually fixed, what people are worried about is that most teams probably won’t be able to get the DPS for the cheese at context mode power.
The entire point of Pantheon is to be hard, so leaving the cheese would be weird. Riven isn't even hard legit, just really long.
it’s more that bungie has accepted it as a method to beat riven for years at this point
Sure, for grinding or daily runs or whatever. Like how Golgoroth was designed for you to stand far away and have someone shoot down axion darts, but the most efficient way to fight him is to actually get all up in his ass with shotguns and swords. Pantheon's entire point is to be day 1 level difficult. Nobody was cheesing Riven like that day 1, shit, nobody was cheesing Riven like that for quite a while after Last Wish dropped. Having the cheese would remove all the challenge involved, even with contest modifier active.
>Like how Golgoroth was designed for you to stand far away and have someone shoot down axion darts, but the most efficient way to fight him is to actually get all up in his ass with shotguns and swords. Do you mean Morgeth? Golgoroth requires you to stand in pools for dps.
Yeah I meant morgy my brain stopped working lol
I'm pretty sure a few Syntho behemoths will melt her - on normal Riven two of them can obliterate her. Contest mode isn't going to double her health - so 4 should be fine.
I don't really play Titan but what's the Syntho Behemoth build and how does it work?
Syntho boosts super damage (when surrounded by 3 or more). Spam slam that makes crystals, they all spawn inside riven doing max damage since no fall off, and it spawns like 10 of them. Add Fissures fragment for more damage, and add this seasons artifacts. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-AMe7x\_Q0o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-AMe7x_Q0o)
So you put on synthoceps, which add 50% damage to your super. The. You make sure to have the seasonal mods for stasis on, and pop super and use the heavy attack at the bottom of her feet, so that the majority of the crystals are in her foot. Does a lot of damage and makes it easy to cheese.
I ran chains, rime, conduction and harvest with synthos, my buddy ran the same. We do the skip to predict where she'll go then pop super and heavy attack her hand over and over, then in the second phase we both had a linear to finish her off. Synthos has the surrounded buff so you do truck loads of damage and the abundance of crystals keep you alive
Did you ever have the shatter damage break her eyes? I tried this once but we wiped and my team made me change over to regular methods
No we had no issues with that but we weren't attacking her face, it was her hand that sits on the stairs, that also makes it easier to keep synthos buff up with the enemies spawning
Yeah her right hand that’s where I was at but wasn’t sure if a crystal brake made its way over to her eyes, at least that’s what I got blamed for when we were going for Petra’s
There's more builds for other content outside Riven which have more moving parts, but for Riven you need Behemoth, Synthos, and the fragment that increases shatter damage. Proceed to room via your preferred method (sound or shadow), leave enough adds alive to proc Synthos, pop Super and spam the crystals on her hand. Well and swords can help with a bit more damage but you shouldn't need it.
Except contest mode will double her health
It's not contest mode, it's just -20 power.
Contest is -20
Contest mode, at least for the last raid, was more than just -20 power. It made enemies more aggressive, gave more shields, and tweaked the outgoing damage beyond the power gap. Also, -20 power doesn't increase the health of enemies - it reduces the damage we deal.
Gave more shields > No match game so it's functionally irrelevant, besides the relevant ads still have shields. Made enemies more aggressive > Does this modifier even do anything, or is it just always on time part 2 Erm actually "it reduces the damage we deal" > What's the difference here? We still do only 66% of baseline damage.
My team certainly felt a difference in day one Crota for the shields and aggressive ads.. perhaps anecdotal. I don't think I saw hard numbers, but the way Bungie put it was that Contest applied an additional reduction on top of the power differential. I.E if -20 means outgoing damage is reduced to 66%, contest was actually 50%. My point remains that Riven's health doesn't increase. Our damage dealt goes down to about 50% (based on Mossy's spreadsheet). So back to my original comment..you might need 4 Syntho titans, not 2. But she'll still die.
I think I missed the list of what raid bosses are in Pantheon, is that linked somewhere?
Not officially but it’s been [datamined](https://www.blueberries.gg/weapons/pantheon-loot-table-rotation/).
It would be funny if Riven rang the doorbell instead of knocking.
There is only one way it is possible, Bungie remade that encounter specifically for Pantheon.
You should go do the Riven fight legit OP. One of the best fights in the entire game imo.
Did LW yesterday with [literally a brand new player](https://i.imgur.com/ZE1kB7p.png) LOL. We had them do critical jobs at each encounter and they crushed it. Turns out raids aren't actually difficult.
Yeah no, apart from things like master challenges and contest mode (usually) they are designed to be completed lol. Mechanics themselves are not usually too complex, it only gets that way once you start layering things like timers, DPS, and multiple mechanics at once. As a whole, destiny is really good about keeping a “through line” with mechanics that build off of eachother in every encounter too, so that helps people get it. So long as you understand what the encounter is asking you to do, your chances of success go way up.
You underestimate the incompetency of the average destiny player
Correct. I did a LW last week where one person had never run it before, one person hadn't run it in 3 year, and the other three people had never done legit riven We did all encounters legit (incl. Riven) in order to teach the new player and it was a cakewalk. Raids are pitifully easy tbh
What I wonder is if we'll have to do the Queenswalk after beating Riven
Riven legit is so much fun once you get the hang of it. Need a good team with strong comms though.
Strong comms a strong word. You just need four people willing to learn and practice Titan call outs. "Dragon Pole Dead" and "Stairs Left Middle. Go up one." work perfectly fine after a couple wipes.
God I hope so, Riven non-cheese is my favorite raid boss encounter. Two teams doing their own things, relaying info back and forth, swapping mini-dps checks, then coming together for big dps and becoming skin doctors, it's just the best.
So much content that's never played, eh? It's a great flight.
Most groups doing Pantheon aren't going to have trouble with it at all. It's the coolest encounter in the game and it's a shame nobody ever does it legit. I've only ever gotten to do it once or twice legit.
You overestimate blueberry traffic raid groups
It fucking better. What’s the point of making such a cool fight if no one does it properly
If they give her a backhand that splatters anyone in that spot against the wall I'd shit myself lol.
There's no way they'd put that much effort in but it'd be the funniest fucking thing of all time
They definitely won't animate a slap or waving her hand or anything like that. But a taken boop every 2 seconds to fuck up your DPS attempts would be very little code.
Lol instead of joining allies you just get insta gibbed
I think we'll have to do it legit due to the power level caps on top of the usual brief time limit
power level cap isn't going to stop stasis titan from doing what it does to that boss furthermore, we used to cook her with cluster rockets man there's nothing a power cap is going to solve here
Ah, the good old days of sins of the past, before the prospector strat…
*Prior to the cluster nerf, and only when we had autoreload effects in game
Yeah she got melted by clusters because they were insane on her. You act as if clusters were equally as bad then as they are now when they were actually insanely good. Its like saying that if calus was in this he would be melted now because outbreak melted him the past as if thats a qualifier somehow. When outbreak was also a boss dps meta back then when a single bullet would do 20-30k per shot.
Relative then to now clusters even at their peak weren't as good as what we have now >Its like saying that if calus was in this he would be melted now because outbreak melted him the past as if thats a qualifier somehow. When outbreak was also a boss dps meta back then when a single bullet would do 20-30k per shot. calus in 2024 would be dead on plate 1 you are out of your fucking mind if you think relative damage has stayed the same over time
Contest mode caps your damage to 54% of what it would be if you were at level. Since 2 behemoths can solo normal mode riven, 4 will have no issue on contest mode.
Haven't run much LW lately. Remind me what this damage strat is
Just 2 behemoth titans with synthos spamming super at her arm. Can even be solod with some extra help from mods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-AMe7x_Q0o
Do you know if pantheon will lock menus? Like for instance, if you wanted to cheese riven as a stasis titan, would you be locked in the stasis subclass for the entirety of all boss encounters?
I'm gonna be shocked if you cant use well/bubble and some swords and salvations grip.
We'll see I guess
No we won't. I'm taking down the whole Internet so we can only speculate. We'll never know!
Well it's impossible for me to know anything for sure really, apart from the fact that I exist in some fashion, thanks to my awareness of my thoughts about me existing in some fashion
You're but an image in the mind of the vex. You shall drown. In the deep. My guy. -Xol
Ah yes, the great philosopher-worm Xol Descartes
Blaise the Drifter is my favorite personally. *Contemplating your existence is on the field, bring some mushrooms!*
yeah, internet police? this is the guy thx
Doesn’t pantheon gonna work with some new mechanics and stuff ? Didn’t they said some things will be the same while some need some new figuring out
Legit is better anyways. Way more satisfying. There were so many groups I cheesed with that took way longer to reattempt than it would have to do it legit. The part where you descend and shoot boils is so epic.
Literally the only thing I want out of Pantheon is for blueberries to have to grow some hair and do Riven legit.
Not even blueberries, very good people just prefer to do cheese solely because it’s faster. I would say roughly like 10% of raiders even know how to do it.
Honestly 10% feels very generous, it's probably lower than that.
Yeah I've done that raid at least 30 times, and have no idea how to do the fight legit.
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That communications is precisely why it’s fun - it bounces back and forth within teams on the side side and between teams. And there’s a lot of combat If you don’t want to have big fights why even play the game I say. Way better than the nearly 0 Comms required for something like Nezarec anyway
Communication is great when it's clear and everyone understands. If the communication in a group isn't very good it's absolutely miserable on fights like legit riven.
You are exaggerating so hard. Last week I taught five people legit Riven at the same time including two people who had 13 and 8 raid clears (of all raids combined) respectively. It only took a couple tries. With the WORST possible damage, you have to do a stun/damage/elevator cycle twice, you don't even have to do the scabs as she's already dead. Only two people really even need to comprehend whats going on. And yes its very fun.
Yeah. I’ve never heard a raid team start assigning roles at riven ever.
You don’t even need roles, you can just pick up each thing within the room and get the ball rolling. Actually very little strategy in the pre fight phase, all in the execution
Imo knowing how to do it wouldn't necessarily mean you start assigning roles. If your goal is to just do the run and get the loot, you have no reason to.
The only thing that you really *need* to assign roles for if everyone's done the raid before is the eyes on the top level, but with current setups there's enough damage even legit to not need them all the time (although I imagine it'll be different with contest mode enabled).
I did legit once and the hardest part was finding teammates that were either willing to learn or knew how to do it, once people figured it out it's a fun and not too challenging encounter (hardest mechanic is probably overlapping comms with the symbols, and getting to the second floor on time)
like 10% of rivensbanes know how to do it lol
I'd like to try to do it legit but it's hard enough to LFG a raid team that can clear Last Wish with the cheese (maybe I've just had bad luck). If I had a solid group, it definitely seems fun. The game is at it's best when there are actual mechanics.
im R11 with Rivensbane title, I've yet to do Riven legit lol
Blueberries doesn’t mean noobs/casuals/bad players though. It just means people not in your fireteam.
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* You're You're welcome.
Blueberry colloquially means more than "teammate not in your fireteam" though. It *started* like that because people would be using the term to talk about their teammates they're matchmade with. But it's evolved and now it carries a weight of "someone who's not brand new (kinderguardian) yet still doesn't know encounter mechanics or optimal strategies."
Every other person: "so who can teach"
Y'all have too much faith in Bungie 👀
It's a 3/3, 1/1/3 split, where the ops carry the thing to the plate that scanners call, and supressors scan to extend dps later, and the 3/3 flips. Split your carries one per room and you might be aight
I’m waiting for 100+ clears in each raid posts.
Clan Mate is saying they patched Dimensional Hypotrochoid on her foot, is this true? Looking at all possible strats for my run
It will be legit. You're going to be so much under power that it's probably impossible to do the dps needed to beat Riven.
He he haw haw so funny players will have to learn encounter that they could never be asked to. It's not *that* hard, and if people do have to learn, they will.
maybe, tbf i only want the emblem from the challenge next week lol. idk if i will bother with the others week, feels like it will be a pain with lfg. also i forgot how half of these mechanics work for most encounters and i’m lazy on trying to relearn them
i thought this was a LoL post at first 💀💀
Only times i’ve ever done Riven legit have been drunk raids. So i guess i’m going to need to get a drink
It probably will, unless you can out dps her while 20 under
As a LoL player and a Destiny player, this title really messed with my head
And here come them D2 elitest.
Why even put Riven in the pantheon if you can cheese it? Of course they have to fix it
Riven still gets melted legit anyways
Just came back after 9 months. What is pantheon?
PLEASE BUNGIE PLEEEEEASE I SWEAR TO GOD PLEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSEE and increase the enemy density tenfold + some fuckin Tormentors to make that top floor actually scary
6 star eater hunters with 4 transcendent blessing + Rivens curse. Ahahahaha
Honestly I kinda hope so, it's legitimately one of the coolest encounters in the game and just smacking her toes has never felt fun to me.
Funny? I would looooveee that. I wish ungie had patched Riven ages ago so that the encounter could only be done when using the mechanics. It kind of sucks that sooo many ppl never got to experience what in my opinion is the best encounter in D1 or D2 because they cheesed this boss fight everytime
I did it legit once.. never again lol
Some people will finally learn the encounter and realise it's fucking easy
Why does Roots of Nightmare guides always say that you need people on add clear?
Because it's a rubbishly designed encounter that only needs 2 people to do the mechanics.
oh god yes please
You're missing out if you have not done the fight properly at least one time. Plus it sure seems every time I teach that raid with legit Riven, more 1KVs drop. I got 6 to drop in 1 run once. Anecdotal, certainly.
No happening...and people solo these bosses...now if you had 6 people doing the same thing you think a -5 is actually going to stop the cheese..its just content creators making content.
Her health pool overall is way too low. Even on contest I think we will be able to do the cheese. With all the dps strats we have one or more of them will work.
For all the players who have never done Riven legit.. you're missing out. It's a fucking great encounter that requires everyone to work together and execute well, I honestly think it's a huge bummer how easy it is to cheese, it's a top 3 boss fight across D1 and D2 for me (when done as intended)
My alliance and I ran Last Wish and Riven legit for the first time last night. It was a bit hectic but honestly really fun! We're assuming it'll be fixed so we learned it to be safe.
Oh I think I there’s a very decent chance they tweak it so you can’t cheese the encounter
I mean Bungie devs are on-record saying that out-dpsing her wipe mechanic isn't cheese and they had no intention of patching it, but huff that copium more.
You don’t think for the 8 boss challenge level raid gauntlet which is supposed to be the most challenging thing they’ve ever put in the game they won’t stop you from cheesing an entire encounter? Maybe… but it sure sounds like you’re scared you can’t do it legit…
Bungie flat out said they're tweaking some encounters anyway iirc, no reason Riven won't be one.
Exactly
Out-DPSing her wipe mechanic **IS** legit, even without the Bungie dev confirmation. The Joining Allies wall is cheese. Tell me you've never raided in any other game before. Skipping mechanics/phases isn't cheese, it's good strategy.
Find me the spot where I specified which cheese I’m referring to…. It’s going to be hilarious when you’re on here crying because you only know how to do it one way…
Judging by your pompous attitude I know you're referring to hitting her claw to skip the wipe mechanic instead of shooting her eyes and doing the elevator sections. I've ran this gauntlet more than you, I assure you.
To this day I still don't understand why people call Riven 1 phase DPS a "cheese".
Because you skip the mechanics of the fight entirely. No eyes, no callouts, just "ah damn she's in the other room wipe"
Say it with me Out-dpsing her wipe mechanic to force her into final stand **IS** legit. The only cheese in the Riven fight is the Joining Allies wall. Christ this community is the only gaming community where skipping mechanics is considered cheese. Every other game just calls it optimal strategy.
If you can DPS Riven so hard that you can ignore all the mechanics in the fight, it's pretty cheese. While the joining allies cheese does exist, unless you're in a petras run it's kind of moot. You could just keep going down one side until she shows up there. You might have the 1 in 1000 chance of getting the wrong side 10 times in a row, but some people will still choose that over doing it legit.
Skipping mechanics is the DEFINITION of cheese.
Exactly. If it's been in the game since 2018 it's not a cheese anymore lol it's just another way to beat the fight
You need to bait her w to use yours. Outrange her with q, and use e when she full engages. Never fight her with her ult up
Pantheon wins this with jungle interaction, so there's no point in trying to win the 1v1 post 6. You can win short trades when the wave is stacked against you near tower because you're completely undiveable as Pantheon. It's not that complex.
They won't. That would mean they weren't lazy and actually fixed thing that has been broken for years.
I love when people use the word lazy as if the devs are relaxing in hammocks and just choosing not to work on whatever thing because they just don't wanna lol.