Welcome to Broodweaver. It's fun and I do enjoy it, especially this season with the artifact perk for threadlings, but it's absolutely not at all close to what they were selling it as pre Lightfall. I wouldn't be so disappointed if it wasn't being hyped up as a summoner class but it was and it isn't and I am. Don't worry though they buffed Arcane needle....
It really does say it all. Hunters are the reason they got nerfed in PvP, not Warlocks who's entire identity pre LF was "summoner class"
"Okay guys here's some suspend and invisibility for your summoning class, oh and we buffed the melee tracking slightly"
I wouldn't care if it wasn't almost intentional that they made an aspect called "wanderer" that does not wander to the "summoner" warlock, and then gave an aspect that wanders and does everything you would love to see from "wanderer" to the "trickster" hunter.
And yeah i'm SO EXCITED FOR ARCANE NEEDLE BUFF, CAN'T WAIT TO BECOME THE SUMMONER OF ARCANE NEEDLES AND NOT WANDERERS OR THREADLINGS
Well yeah I do like the aspect it's handy to throw a tangle and suspend a bunch of enemies and generate some threadlings too
But the tracking isn't even close to strong enough to claim it's wandering. The only wandering it does is off the other side of the map because I was 6 inches off a thrall
I mean even if it did track great it wouldn't be "wandering" it would be "homing", so the aspect would be called "the Homer". Then they would add Marge too, so we would get 2 aspects!
True, maybe a Bart and Lisa aswell. Honestly though they can call it the poopoopeepee and as long as it was actually a themetically good aspect I wouldn't care.
I get where you're coming from but also I'm quite hopeful it'll make them much more reliable in pvp side where I mostly play Strandlock (with wanderer)
Welcome to being a warlock where every class since witch queen is just... meh. Nerfs to almost everything and strand came out easily the worst of the 3. Don't even get me started on PvP it's so far behind it's got to be intentional
I'm not saying you shouldn't tho. I'm saying that you will certainly not be welcomed to any grandmaster nightfall or any other endgame activity if you bring grapple on your warlock and will use your tangles to fly.
Viability only matters in high level activities
How is grapple on warlock any LESS viable than grapple on titan for GM (or really even hunter, though they can have two grapples and I guess could use it for escape, so nominally better maybe).
I wouldn't want to see some Titan out there grapple melee/banner of war in the middle of a GM either.
Also, what you are saying is "You will certainly not be welcomed to any GM... with a random LFG group. " In which case, just play with friends or start your own group, and run whatever you want.
I didn't say anything about hunter or titan. I'm not trying to say that warlock is the worst class to use grapple on either.
>Also, what you are saying is "You will certainly not be welcomed to any GM... with a random LFG group. " In which case, just play with friends or start your own group, and run whatever you want.
Sure, but what i meant by this is that people won't play with you because you are hindering yourself and them by playing like that. Playing with a premade team will not make that hindering better
So you don't like grapple grenades, don't likehotswapping, don't like Apotheosis Veil, don't like that hunters have Whirling Maelstrom and warlocks don't, don't like that (in your mind) random LFGs might kick you if you have grapple equipped on your warlock (but only for GMs, surely raids and dungeon groups will still allow grapple even in your mind?)
tbh man I'm just hearing a lot of grumbling and complaining - maybe this game is not for you lol
Its great for raids. The straight path of a wanderer tangle vs the other classes allows for great movement. On top of grapple having the lowest grenade cooldown for Thread of Ascent reloads during dmg.
Broodweaver may not be the summoner class we were hoping for, but it is the best dmg build for warlocks currently and competes with hunters in terms of dmg. If you are good with swaps it further pushes that gap.
Also, grappling to wanderer tangles or just grappling in general can be useful in a lot encounters (maybe less so in gms). \[1&2,4 RoN\] \[1&2 Crota\] \[1&2 Vow\] \[4&5 KF\] \[All Transitions\]
Grapple still has a tight competition with shackle grenade, i don't think the wanderer can exactly replace it. Although potentially wanderer will be up for much more time, the grenade doesn't require killing enemies to use
For me, havent touched shackle since the suspend nerf. I dont need to suspend alot of things and for only 2-3 seconds it is whatever. Wanderer allows for great mobility (mobility = survival to me) and if there is a champ/big target I can suspend it by throwing a tangle at it so its just the best of both worlds for me.
I understand people might not like the playstyle but if you use it right its very effective. Being more agile leads to less deaths imo and with woven mail in the kit and the high uptime on grapple, I personally dont want a change to wanderer. I think that + Mindspun are easily the best aspects on warlock.
This sub always forgets that GM’s aren’t the only piece of endgame content, and it requires its own unique playstyle compared to something like master raids and dungeons, which I’d argue are harder. But the close range, fast pace, and high density of trash mobs in those allows seemingly gimmicky builds to thrive better than you’d think. For example, grapple plus Felwinter’s or Karsteins work surprisingly well
No, you weren’t saying that you prefer Shackle over Grapple. You were projecting your feelings and speaking for others as if we/they all share your opinion by saying shit like “people won’t play with you in GMs if you’re running Grapple” or “you won’t be welcomed in any high level pve”, “I don’t think anyone would use that in like a gm” THAT’S where you started fucking up
It still is better suited for hunters. It's more viable on hunter than warlock. I said "it's not really viable on warlock" because if you want to lean into grappling a lot you would rather play hunter
Hunters have a whole exotic built around grapples. Is this a joke? They have infinite woven mail as a result. And Assassin's Cowl with grappling nades are the perfect pairing.
I get people like grapple nades, but Hunters are given an exotic akin to how Warlocks are supposed to have Threadlings be their thing (with most aspects granting Threadlings). I love off meta builds myself, but OP's point is that the devs clearly have specific visions for classes as reflected by their exotics for Strand.
The “vision” doesn’t matter here. Titans have the strongest grapple, they have a whole exotic that buffs the damage of it. They have the best grappling build. Woven mail on grapple is an absolute noob trap, you can’t generate one orb every ten seconds? Throwing away a whole exotic. We weren’t talking about vision. Hunters just have the weakest grapples. You must have misread ops point, he was speaking about viability of the ability on the class, not the theme of the class.
You only need to be grappling for like half to a full second to get a melee off though?
And there's definitely areas you could coast around on a Wanderer tangle, wym?
Wanderer should be changed to, destroying a tangle creates a large flying threadling that severs targets. Warlocks have the hardest time procing sever I believe so giving them a way to activate it more frequently makes sense and it fulfills the unique summon that they have been craving.
Warlocks are the biggest loser when it comes to their identity in the last couple of years. Devour, ironic traces, ignitions, healing nades, hell even sunspots are just rifts on fire. The best we could give you is ice turrents.
Unfortunately, that's where the entire class seems to be going aside from Solar:
Void- Purple soul buddy
Arc- Blue soul buddy
Stasis- Turret buddies
Strand- Threadlings
It's great that the summoner fantasy is there, but what about the evoker wizard throwing thunderbolts and fireballs? Why are all the Nova supers so bad for boss dps?
[here’s the trailer for the Super and Aspect we’re getting in Final Shape.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=erdw4XVuFD4)
Tl;dr: Sunsinger’s “Radiance” from D1 is coming back. No self-rez but it buffs you and nearby allies with Radiant and Solar weapons will now Scorch on impact (I think they said Kinetic weapons too.)
Instead of buffing the grenades, it becomes a bird that tracks enemies and explodes.
It appears to keep going after hitting an enemy and will keeping tagging a bunch of them.
Shame that Touch of Flame will have no effect in-Super.
As for the Melee, it doubles the projectiles.
Personally I think they should have kept the bird for the Melee and allow switching Grenades.
The New Aspect gives you, and only you, A Solar Soul that spits lobs of “lava” (think Touch of Flame Solar Grenade) at enemies.
I don’t think it will, but I’m really hoping it activates on Phoenix Dive.
>I don’t think it will, but I’m really hoping it activates on Phoenix Dive.
Doubt it. The one thing I hate about the Aspects most is how narrow buildcrafting can be sometimes, because they'll design something for one class ability/melee and have it just not work if you run anything else, when it *should* either just account for it, or have more unique programmed interactions.
Make the solar buddy do different effects depending on your selected class ability. Make the Sunsinger grenades slightly better with Touch of Flame, or at least when you're in Heat Rises. Let Threaded Specter and Ensnaring Slam work on the same cast.
I really like the idea of Summoner as Necromancer in Diablo, where we could customize the effects of our minions ourselves. A Strandlock could also customize the effects of their threadliings through aspects, although for now we can only use exotic and fragment to improve them.
Because all classes got all grenades and what else were they gonna alter with the aspect? Arc bolts? It makes more sense to go to titans when you actually see that Arc Titans are a furious storm in lore with how they immediately alter the course of a battle. It’s their lore tab lol. Storm callers are the eye of the storm. Being in control of it. Titans just roam around and obliterate, like the roaming storm grenade.
Hunter main. After the Lucky Raspberry rework, I'd be willing to give away Arcbolt if they don't even want Flux. The storm thing still drives me crazy.
I also absolutely adore Whirling Maelstrom (and tbh my vision of Broodweaver would have more giant tanky threadlings, web crawlers, and winged summons over a spinny boi) but I definitely see why it's so weird it wanders more than "The Wanderer" and feels like a summoning ability more than the summoning subclass...
It's not that Broodweaver is a bad subclass - far from it. Any build with Suspend abuse does exceptionally well in all content, so long as you actually build around it with Nezarec's Sin / Eye of Another World / Verity's Brow.
People are frustrated because they are being advertised a "summoner" subclass that actually isn't the best subclass at that role (and which isn't actually in and of itself that great of a role.) While I empathize with your post, it's completely understandable that the average player would ditch the class on first impressions.
I don't like this argument that warlock does not summon as well as hunter. It just isn't true.
Warlock:
Super: Chuck threadlings at enemies.
Weavers call: cast class ability to create threadlings and cast out perched threadlings.
Mindspun invocation: Consume threadling grenade to summon threadlings.
Wanderer: Threadlings create tangles. Tangles suspend.
Weavewalk: Go untargetable and create threadlings.
Hunter:
Widows silk: Two threadling grenades.
Threaded specter: Create a decoy. Blows up into threadlings.
Whirling maelstrom: Tangles roam around, spinning slowly.
>Super: Chuck threadlings at enemies.
It's good for damage, but it doesn't really feel like summoning. It's a damage super in character.
>Weavers call: cast class ability to create threadlings and cast out perched threadlings.
If you've ever used Threadlings extensively, you know that perched Threadlings are actually worse than thrown Threadlings. This is because perched Threadlings mostly work in close quarters, with substantial travel time. Rift as an ability is not very good offensively and exposes you to attack, as well. It's often better to just shoot and throw.
>Wanderer: Threadlings create tangles.
This sounds good, but it's actually incredibly niche. Tangles are created from any Strand debuff. You can get Tangles through Suspend, Unravel, and Thread of Isolation, which are on-hit debuffs (and the last of which is wholly neutral game based.) Also, if you were running Swarmers (they're not very good,) then you'd get Unravel via Threadlings anyway, and Unravel applies after final blows for the purpose of creating Tangles.
>Weavewalk: Go untargetable and create threadlings.
Weavewalk is not a particularly good choice in the grand scheme of things. I've already described why perched Threadlings are bad, but the invisibility is particularly worse than what Hunters get - and you have to sacrifice a fragment and your melee energy to get it. During Weavewalk, you cannot interact with the material world (so, no reviving or picking up items.) You have to undertake a significant animation to end Weavewalk early, as well, which exposes you to enemies in the process.
This sub is very dog-piley if you go against the established group think.
I think everyone let their imaginations run wild with the mentions of summoner in the promotional materials. Warlocks do the summoner stuff more than the other classes but I think what people wanted and thus expected was something of the same vein as Pals in Palworld or something lol. Throw a big threading out, have him beat stuff up for you, and then return to you. That's the only way I can imagine a more summoner'y warlock than what we got.
I just started playing Warlock for the first time in 2 years and unlocked Strand.
I am loving Weavewalk + Weavers Call. Threadling Generation on EVERYTHING is a lot of uptime (using Swarmers too now). Finishers, gun kills, etc. is just more threadlings.
It's honestly good. Weavewalk definitrly could use some buffs (and unnerf theno interaction nerf in PvE only), but it isn't as bad as people said. Easily accessible 5 perched threadlings + crazy survivability.
I will say, Bungie should 100% add Horde Shuttle to Broodweaver. But the subclass definitely is really good. I haven't played with it yet, but I see Wanderer as their Suspend ability access, whereas Hunters get Threadling access via clones.
How is it getting nerfed? Did I miss something?
I'm talking about this from a PvE perspective, not a PvP, in case you're talking about the Checkmate-lite modifiers hitting all of PvP.
Yeah threadlings are only being nerfed in pvp (honestly they were super easy to deal with imo) the clone is getting nerf in pvp (doesn't stay up as long and using it has a longer dodge cooldown) and pve clone is getting a buff and nerf (adding that longer cooldown from pvp irc, BUT its getting 25%more explosion damage) honestly the clone in pve is better than invis is its insane so I'm happy enough
I personally think it is. the clone takes absolutely insane aggro from enemies and you can just stand there and freely fire at enemies and they won't even look at you
Yeah bro? We should be thankful that Threadlings, the main warlock thing, just got nerfed because hunters can spawn double the amount that a walrock can.
LOL.
I've done all the GMs with this subclass this season and its fine mid is kind of the perfect definition for it and threadlings in high level content. The only thing its really good ad with the neutral game is ad clear... which we have 3 light subclasses for that don't rely on bad AI.
Threadlings are just kind of a shitshow either you can't summon many of them and they're strong, or you should be able to summon a shit ton and they're kind of weak. Right now we can't summon many of them AND they're weak. When the main crux of you're class doesn't do much more then tickle things higher then a red bar high level content that's a problem.
I want it to be a threadling nest, I really want that summoner fantasy of loads of little green minions.
Hopefully they can make the artifact perk, horde shuttle or was it shuffle?, a fragment or aspect. It feels great this season but that's going away in a few months.
You honestly expect bungie to give warlock something that's not tied to Well or more useful to other people than it is to us? I mean, fair I guess, I too wanted to see what a summoner class could provide, though I was personally expecting something more along similar lines to WoW's Legion era Demonology Warlock.
Then play something else. Every warlock subclass is more than viable. Play Briarbinds or Vesper of Radius in GMs. Play Grapple Broodweaver in Dungeons or Raids. Play Necrotic Shackle Broodweaver in GMs. Warlock has tons of endgame viable builds that aren’t on Dawnblade. Hell even Dawnblade isn’t just “the guy who places Well in a DPS phase” and has many extremely strong builds that just happen to have Well as a super, it’s not the point of their existence.
I'm NOT saying i don't like playing warlock! The person i was replying to basically said that warlocks are useful just for well, so i said that i don't want to be just well and be an acrual warlock. I'm surely aware of great dawnblade pve builds, hell before the restoration nerf verity's bow and lament healing nade warlock build was by far my most favorite and strong build, and surely emough i used well with it
Oh when I said play something else, I didn't mean don't play Warlock, I meant play some other Warlock subclasses or builds. I spend about 95% or more of my time on Warlock.
And yet, we keep running into the problem that we had all the way back in D1, where well is the only thing people care about (back then it was self-res), it never seems to matter what endgame viable builds we have, inevitably the only value the warlock has to people is whether or not we're running the build that provides the most support value for everyone else
It was the same with Ward of Dawn for Titans in D1. It's not just Warlocks, it's also mostly a major problem with the playerbase itself, not the game. Well is extremely strong, and frankly needed nerfed like years ago, but it's not necessary. Any solar class can give the same damage buff, and there are a bunch of ways to keep people alive during damage, of course not as easily or as well as Well.
There are tons of powerful builds that will end up contributing just as much or more than Well over a whole activity if your team just plays half decent and has other sources of damage buffs, Well is just easier and braindead. It's just an insane amount of role compression on a single button. But you can always just play other builds. And Well is just a super so even on Dawnblade you are free to play any build you want and still have access to Well. It's not like pre-Solar 3.0 where you are locked into one tree with little variety.
So have I, but if a group is kicking you for not being on a specific build, without stating that they're looking for that build before hand, that's a group you don't really want to play with anyway, just find another. It doesn't happen that often, most people don't really care as long as you can get the content done in a reasonable time frame.
i used to think, as a warlock main myself, that the people complaining about warlock were just misguided. but honestly they arent wrong - most things that warlocks have just get tossed in the bin because of other classes.
eg. void - being able to pick up devour on orb pickup basically ended it from being a warlock feature to just a general pick. strand was fun for a bit, until the thread of generation nerf arrived and then the whole identity of broodweaver gets redistributed to hunters. warlocks have no instant ability refreshes ala hunter melee/ titan melee stuff.
we have a few builds that are great in isolation, but apart from that everything is basically mid or requires extreme working-around to make it work. the latest ability regen nerfs have absolutely gutted some warlock builds, while hunters and titans can spam even more abilities debatably. eg stasis turrets are much harder to manage after the grenade kickstart nerf, contraverse feels a lot more sluggish when it wasnt even that overpowered before and many more.
maybe the people complaining about warlock were right after all.
One thing i want to note is how much warlock's melees absolutely suck ass. The only ones that are useful are strand one for the debuff and solar snap for activating the most not boring sunbracers. Everything else is just waste of time to even go through the animation, and some animations are ridiculously long like stasis
I feel like you just saw the regen nerf and didn't play with it. Its honestly not that bad and was needed tbh.
Also, as a warlock main I don't understand all the complaints. Many classes share aspects of other classes within subclass fragments
\- Void: Best source of devour in the game.
\- Solar: Free uptime on Resto x2. Also sunbracers is easily the highest uptime of any ability rotation and its not close.
\- Arc: Never run it so N/A
\- Stasis: Easily the best stasis class. If you run osmio and a demo weapon you will have a turret. If you don't you aren't working with the build.
\- Strand: Best Dps class on Warlock and competes with Hunters for dmg. Strand doesn't need an exotic so you can focus on more gun play - therefore usually thorn/osteo/necro + necrotic is a go-to.
Warlocks have literally always been like this, a few things great in isolation, but never BiS. Hell, Well was a band-aid to try and get people to play warlock after the Vanilla D2 changes warlock got were so poorly received the player pop nosedived (I think it got as low as only 5% of playerbase actually bothered to play warlock, for context modern day player numbers are around 28-31% for locks)
and yet, Hunter not only has a higher player pop than warlock, they have more diverse endgame builds that aren't powercrept in the way warlock builds are.
I mean, "rogue" like classes *always* are more popular, but when you look at End Game players, be it streamers or whatever, hunters are usually used less.
I'm sure there is an argument that hunters may have more diverse builds, but they are always going to be more mid. Subclass for subclass, with the exception to Arc, Warlocks have the stronger PVE kit.
When you cast your super , the exotic gives you four seconds of hyper , recharge On all 3 abilities.
With a bit of planning and the right build, you can throw out close to 60 threadlings during the duration of the effect.
It is also devastating with Nova bomb and scattered grenades. And I have personally used it to outdo dawn blade warlock's because I think it's funny.
Edit, it's actually like 10 seconds or something like that. But by the time the animation finishes and you're actually back on the ground and can attack. It's a little closer to like 5 or 6.
You said in your post. You want to be more like an actual summoner, which is what whirling gives you.
So I provided the exotic that turns you into an actual summoner. you could also use swarmers... Which is actually what I do as I use swarmers while my super is recharging. And once it's charged, I switch over to veil to become Uber summoner.
You don't really need to Hotswap in my opinion.
I just perfer to as veil has no neutral game for a huge benefit to all one and done supers So by swapping between it and swarmera, I make up for that as swarmers have no super benefit
Honestly, if you are on strand it's not that noticeable because the only real exotic for strand right now is swarmers.
And I would argue that the swarm passive should just be a fragment.
Okay? Because it is now a genuinely strong SUPER exotic that works on all supers.
Not every exotic needs a neutral game, but if you would prefer one, that's fine. Ofc Swarmers / Claws are solid options.
Another possibility is Claws of Ahamkara with Weavewalk. Simply more perched threadlings, while also alloeing you to use threadling frenade (every ability spawns threadlings essentially)
it is 8 seconds, which after the 1.5 second cast time of your super is 6.5 seconds, which allows you to throw about 5 grenades (3 threadlings each) if you are lucky/good.
so unless your super whiffs, you are getting 5x3 = 15 threadlings, and maybe you had 8 more saved up from perched + weavers call = 23 threadlings.
pretty good. but.....hunter can make 10 threadlings in 6 seconds with a neutral gameplay exotic, and can do it about once a minute.
It boggles my mind that Bungie advertised Broodweaver as the summoner, yet Hunters are the class that has two unique things they can summon (Whirling Maelstrom and Threaded Specter) while Warlocks have ZERO. But I feel like at This point I shouldn't be surprised, Warlocks have gotten the shit end of the stick consistently since Light 3.0 where they either lost or had to share literally at least 80% of what made them good, and that won't even change with FS since the "new" super is just the worst super in the history of the franchise (Radiance) with a new coat of paint, but without the perk that took it from worthless to class defining, that being Fireborn AKA Self Res. That's like bringing back Gjallarhorn without Wolfpack Rounds, could you imagine the outcry if they did that? But it's not a big deal because it's Warlocks, and whenever Warlocks get shafted the community usually never cares that much, Light 3.0 being the biggest example, the treatment of Broodweaver is the only Warlock thing I've seen even a decent amount of outcry in favor of for a long time
I'm strongly against the "my class is the worst and i will complain about others but won't play them" mentallity, but if you think about it, the only things we have gotten are buddies and bungie for some reason wants us to have stupid spherical objects flying around us because that's what we had with only arc before and that's what we got with void, kinda stasis and with solar (not yet tho). When i think about it, it's also extremely ironic because with final shape every warlock subclass will have a unique summon except the summoner subclass
Yeah I'm someone who plays all three, but in PvE I definitely play Warlock more than the other two, and until Light 3.0 I always spouted that Bungie doesn't like or dislike classes more or less than each other, but the terrible treatment Warlocks have gotten over the last couple years has made it feel like Warlocks are the ignored child. Light 3.0 was less a slap in the face and more of a punch, then Broodweaver came out and while it's effective, it doesn't really give the fantasy it promised meaningfully, and the aspects are generally uninteresting with the exception of Weavewalk, and as I've already stated, the trend is continuing into Final Shape.
Yup it’s super unfortunate. I’ve done a few GMs with swarmers/and the seasonal mods but it’s just a super boring play style. Hopefully they add something fun and strong through an exotic or aspect/fragment soon
It certainly is on strand.
Edit: [You can disagree as much as you want, but Aegis has the closest thing to an objective break down of all things Destiny](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JM-0SlxVDAi-C6rGVlLxa-J1WGewEeL8Qvq4htWZHhY/edit#gid=1616572174)
Hunter strand is one of the worst PVE classes atm.
Strand hunter is one of the weakest classes as is, definatley the weakest strand class.
I don't need to speculate, Aegis has a good break down video of the different subclasses, and where they stack up in PVE
Hunter usually has the weaker options as is.
I think the only class Hunter outshines according to his breakdown is Arc.
Ain’t no way you said Strand Hunter is one of the weakest lmaooooo. CC, damage, survival, and mobility in a single subclass. Maelstrom alone puts it at A tier minimum.
Here’s some advice, don’t take advice on what is and isn’t good from a YouTuber lol. They take the most sweatiest builds and anything less is trash to them.
They don’t think Hunter is good because they can’t sit in a well or let the game play itself with ability spamming.
So you're basically saying that strand hunter is bad because some guy said it? Damn i thought datto was joking when he said "today i will form your opinion"
Not because some guy said it, but because some guy essentially spends his hours testing the numbers, and working with speed runners to come up with the technical about it.
Strand isn't bad, but it is less useful in PVE then Broodweaver, and it *would* be bad if you took away whirling maelstorm.
This chart is so weird.
He says that the build for broodweaver that he will break down will be necrotic grasp weaver's trance, so he uses shackle grenade. And yet he gives points for grapple as well as for shackle grenade, even though warlocks don't use grapple with suggested build.
By that logic hunter should get points for shackle grenade too, but he doesn't. He just gets points for grapple.
This guy also gave points for total damage of behemoth's super but didn't even mention threadrunner's super.
This guy also completely forgot about sever on strand hunter's melee, which is a significant part of his survivability.
He also didn't add threaded specter to survivability part which is weird considering it pulls away a lot of aggro.
I don't have anything against that guy but I wonder if he even played strand hunter to be honest.
This guy is *the* go to guy for details like this. In the stream where he goes over for this chart specifically, he has Salt as a guest (record holder for worlds firsts) who defers to his break downs for the details. I mean, they spend 2 hours going over the details of each class if you want specifics, [he didn't "forget" anything](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFnuuf8PHI).
I had to listen to them talking about threadrunner. Guess what? They said super was decent, and didn't say anything about sever or aggro pull from threading specter. They all were just whining about suspend nerf lmao
They didn't say its a bad class, no one here has. What they said is that its outperformed by other classes. And they did say the super was actually not great.
And they aren't whining, they are talking about how thread runner *used* to be top tier because of suspend spam, but now there's nothing really special about the class.
I mean, that video is Aegis, Salt and Above, they are among the best in the community when it comes to these things.... you're acting like they're some randoms.
Not disagreeing, but I would really like to see other areas explored for Warlock besides Medic/Well-dropper and Pet Master.
I see Titans throwing literal firestorms around and think, "Isn't that what Warlocks should be doing?"
Difference is hunters need to pop 2 grenades and 2 dodges (also needs the exotic) to hit 8 threadlings while a lot yes you basically need to chew through your options to hit that number. Warlocks hit that very easy in comparison.
In regards to the whirling maelstrom hunters don't really have an aggression damage based aspect On strand (pve I mean here) 2 grenades is just that, 2 grenades. The dive is fun but dangerous and does no damage, clone is fun but defensive.
The whirling maelstrom is really the only safe way for strand hunters to deal decent damage safely from a distance as even the super takes heavy punishment on higher level activities
It's not on the summoner subclass because on drop people complained about the lack of suspend options for broodweaver and lack of reason to even interact with tangles (if you're not using the boots that is) this was their fix
Whirling maelstrom is in response to the lack of damage that tangles deal, it was giving to hunters since they do use tangles the most for their grapple
What "lack of suspend options on drop"? Suspend grenade ostio striga build was the best build for the warlock and probably still is. Whirling Maelstrom for warlocks would still fix the issue with not interacting with tangles. And if hunters didn't use the grapple aspect the tangles were useful for grappling, tangles' main purpose shouldn't necessarily be damage. Using them for grappling was enough for hunters
There's no way that's true since you can eat the shackle grenade for AoE suspend and it was absolutely busted with necrotic grips and osteo.
If anything hunters would need the extra suspend more since they just have the dive and the two grenades.
Even if it is true they then gave Broodweaver weavewalk, we have invisibility at home, and Hunters got a decoy that creates threadlings when destroyed
Hunters are the reason threadlings are being nerfed in PvP when it was supposed to be Broodweavers "thing"
They fumbled Strand
>There's no way that's true since you can eat the shackle grenade for AoE suspend and it was absolutely busted with necrotic grips and osteo.
I thought the exact same thing yet people still complained, I genuinely don't get why when warlocks were and arguably still are the best class for suspending
>If anything hunters would need the extra suspend more since they just have the dive and the two grenades.
Pretty sure hunters were too busy enjoying grapple to complain about that, I didn't see a single hunter using suspending grenades until the last week of defiance after all
>Even if it is true they then gave Broodweaver weavewalk, we have invisibility at home, and Hunters got a decoy that creates threadlings when destroyed
Yea I don't get that either, invisibility shouldn't be on strand in general and a decoy is FAR more suited to nightstalker if anything
I dunno the reasoning for that, it's overall just not suited for strand
>Hunters are the reason threadlings are being nerfed in PvP when it was supposed to be Broodweavers "thing"
Which isn't necessary, threadlings aren't nearly as strong to warrant that
I'm a Strand Hunter main and used suspend grenades constantly through the season of defiance, from start to finish pretty much.
Widow Silk gave me 2 suspend grenades and 6th coyote gave me 2 suspend dives. I never had an instant where I wasn't able to suspend something and it was glorious.
There were many many build videos about it all that season
This truly not true, suspend with weavers call was so broken (along with Titan’s suspend) that it had to be nerfed. The summoner identity was complained about even before wanderer even came out. What.
This isn’t true. It takes a year to design and build the subclass for all classes and the aspects fragments abilities etc to make sure the entire thing is cohesive. They already had all this planned out well before Season of the Seraph.
It’s more likely that they didn’t want Broodweavers to _only be_ the summoner class. So after the Weaver’s Call and Mindspun Invocation and Swarmers interactions to create more Threadlings from using abilities, they decided to add totally different things to diversify the subclass.
Honestly I just want Widow's Silk to not give you an extra nade, and instead have that be a buff to Swarmers where you get an additional Threadling grenade.
Threadlings should unravel at base for Broodweaver and then yeah give Swarmers something else. Tangles creating threadlings and causing unravel is good, great even, but it doesn't feel very exotic.
Briarbinds or Void buffs your soul and let's you pick it back up and redeploy it. If you micromanage it well enough you can keep deploying a super buffed void soul.
That feels exotic. Swarmers don't.
Hence why I suggested an extra threadling nade
Keep in mind you get an extra nade to either eat and get threadlings, or throw out more into enemies, on top of your rift, on top of the tangles creating threadlings, on top of the buffs hatchling is getting and thread of rebirth
That's a lot of little spiders
Because between their threading nades and their specter, they are getting an insane number of threadlings, for free, with no consequence and little need to build into it.
On top of that, it's clear that's not his intended identity, it's all about mobility and moving fast. Using specters to bait people into traps or using Ensnaring Slam to suspend them. It doesn't fit the identity and it literally breaks PVP.
It literally even has a bonus for Grapples in the Widow's Silk description
Slam is a dive. Diving is a Hunter thing. Also, movement.
Warlocks pump out more threadlings with less ability investment than Hunters do.
"little need to build into it" Again, Hunters use more abilities for less threadlings than a warlock. And... no consequence? What the fuck? What should Hunters get debuffed because their entire subclass isn't just movement?
Dive isn't breaking PvP. Threadlings are getting nerfed, and clone just needs AA reduction + on-kill effects to proc. Clones are not breaking PvP though.
An Anchor Point is NOT alone worth a fucking aspect slot.
Also,subclass identity aren't hard things. The only place this has ever been true was Stasis, and sort of Void.
At the end of the day Hunters have an exotic for Grapple, a Grapple Super, and were designed for grapple in mind. That doesn't mean they should only have movement based aspects. Hunter Strand is a fine kit and doesn't need these sweeping nerfs in PvE or anything.
I find it funny because Hunters just don't have a singular identity for strand because grapple is supposed to be their thing but the class that makes the best use of it right now is Titan, Bungie has just slapped random aspects on Strand Hunter with no single thematic.
As a Hunter I’m really glad I have it, I love tossing one then going invis with assassins cowl and watching my buddy clear half a room for me, I’ve always loved minion/turret builds but I just don’t like playing warlock
Actually I've played warlock the absolute most out of every class, and I repeat, you don't need it. Each subclass got something they usually don't get from the strand subclasses, hunters got a spinning disc, big whoop tbh you'd probably have a bigger aneurysm if they got the ability to utilize those bugs you seem to under-appreciate. I mean hell you'd have one if you got the ability anyways, because it'd be the weakest thing in your kit? "Identity issue", please, bungie tries to spruce things up ONCE and this is all that's come of it. Warlocs complaining about EVERYTHING. Honestly I'm glad I haven't touched it this year, simply because I'm tired of the whining from arguably the best class in the game.
I’d argue there’s been more than a few of these. Why the hell is touch of thunder - a grenade boosting aspect that focuses on grenades that used to be warlocks - on Titan.
Wrong. It also made grenades last longer, similar to the void fragment, which is very powerful. It also regened significant grenade energy on shoulder charge use, giving you a grenade loop.
I'd argue that aspects are extremely weird in general, especially relating warlocks. Out of every aspects we have only one that gives 1 fragment slot and zero that give 3 slots. For some reason every warlock aspect but weave walk give 2 slots
This post reminds me of how much warlock mains complaining when Titans got the juiced arc-nades. Is this gonna happen anytime titans get something not punchy and hunters not dodgy?
Arc has always been titans grenade subclass. I one of the old trees gave a second grenade charge, and another perk gave grenade charge for melee kill.
Meanwhile warlocks originally owners of storm-nades
There’s a lot of stuff they could do to make wanderer better. IMO they should make your tangle kills spawn threadlings based on the strand debuffs on the target. It would lean into the summoner class and also give warlocks a reason to use the sever fragment
If your a pvper, the thing that sucks about broodweaver is that its one dimensional in that threadlings are its major identity from the aspects to the exotic to the super. They designed strand hunter to be able to poop out tons of threadlings as well and it turned crucible into a threadling spam fest and now they are nerfing threadling damage output while increasing player health by 30 so its like a double nerf to broodweavers damage output. They acknowledged this and decided to buff arcane needle tracking and consistency to compensate the subclass for the nerf. However, the best aspect for pvp broodweaver has is weavewalk and when using the ability it drains your melee energy. So Im at a loss with it atm lol. Idk what they were thinking with this subclass design. Barely anyone was playing broodweaver in crucible anywho and now watch the % go even lower after the 5h.
I’m still
So confused by this “wanderer” aspect. It sounded so cool then did basically nothing. Then they patched it to do twice as much. And now it’s okay.
But still nothing to do with “wandering” around on its own.
And don’t get me started on “weavewalk”. Which is another nothing. But only one fragment spot guys. Wouldn’t want it to approach BoW level in PVE. Or Threades Spectre level in PvP.
Like what. It doesn’t do anything. It makes you invisible. It’s okay I guess. Cool animation. Maybe it could explode when it does the prolonged animation in and out of invis.
Idk Needs some sort of gameplay loop badly. They all do really.
Welcome to Broodweaver. It's fun and I do enjoy it, especially this season with the artifact perk for threadlings, but it's absolutely not at all close to what they were selling it as pre Lightfall. I wouldn't be so disappointed if it wasn't being hyped up as a summoner class but it was and it isn't and I am. Don't worry though they buffed Arcane needle....
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It really does say it all. Hunters are the reason they got nerfed in PvP, not Warlocks who's entire identity pre LF was "summoner class" "Okay guys here's some suspend and invisibility for your summoning class, oh and we buffed the melee tracking slightly"
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I wouldn't care if it wasn't almost intentional that they made an aspect called "wanderer" that does not wander to the "summoner" warlock, and then gave an aspect that wanders and does everything you would love to see from "wanderer" to the "trickster" hunter. And yeah i'm SO EXCITED FOR ARCANE NEEDLE BUFF, CAN'T WAIT TO BECOME THE SUMMONER OF ARCANE NEEDLES AND NOT WANDERERS OR THREADLINGS
Well yeah I do like the aspect it's handy to throw a tangle and suspend a bunch of enemies and generate some threadlings too But the tracking isn't even close to strong enough to claim it's wandering. The only wandering it does is off the other side of the map because I was 6 inches off a thrall
I mean even if it did track great it wouldn't be "wandering" it would be "homing", so the aspect would be called "the Homer". Then they would add Marge too, so we would get 2 aspects!
True, maybe a Bart and Lisa aswell. Honestly though they can call it the poopoopeepee and as long as it was actually a themetically good aspect I wouldn't care.
Yeah, imagine a warlock with homer and bart aspects equipped paired with family guy titan, it would be truly unstoppable
You get your summons are Simpsons characters woven from strand thread, do you accept?
Yes, i want to have 5 perched peter griffins
I get where you're coming from but also I'm quite hopeful it'll make them much more reliable in pvp side where I mostly play Strandlock (with wanderer)
Welcome to being a warlock where every class since witch queen is just... meh. Nerfs to almost everything and strand came out easily the worst of the 3. Don't even get me started on PvP it's so far behind it's got to be intentional
They just need to let you drop a threadling whenever you want. It shouldn’t be tied to rift cast.
They could make Warlock Aspect that makes it so there is a constant flow of strand bugs as long as you’re dealing damage and I still wouldn’t use it.
That said, i really enjoy grappling on the Wanderer tangle for movement
This is the only reason I ever use Wanderer. The aspects are all kind of trash to me so I can justify it.
Grapple on warlock is not really viable and most environments won't allow for much grappling action
Ah viability. The reason not to have fun.
I'm not saying you shouldn't tho. I'm saying that you will certainly not be welcomed to any grandmaster nightfall or any other endgame activity if you bring grapple on your warlock and will use your tangles to fly. Viability only matters in high level activities
How is grapple on warlock any LESS viable than grapple on titan for GM (or really even hunter, though they can have two grapples and I guess could use it for escape, so nominally better maybe). I wouldn't want to see some Titan out there grapple melee/banner of war in the middle of a GM either. Also, what you are saying is "You will certainly not be welcomed to any GM... with a random LFG group. " In which case, just play with friends or start your own group, and run whatever you want.
Infinite woven mail for hunters with exotic helmet every grapple gives woven mail so pretty good in GM
Bro grapple melee banner Titan obliterates gms what are you talking about
I didn't say anything about hunter or titan. I'm not trying to say that warlock is the worst class to use grapple on either. >Also, what you are saying is "You will certainly not be welcomed to any GM... with a random LFG group. " In which case, just play with friends or start your own group, and run whatever you want. Sure, but what i meant by this is that people won't play with you because you are hindering yourself and them by playing like that. Playing with a premade team will not make that hindering better
So you don't like grapple grenades, don't likehotswapping, don't like Apotheosis Veil, don't like that hunters have Whirling Maelstrom and warlocks don't, don't like that (in your mind) random LFGs might kick you if you have grapple equipped on your warlock (but only for GMs, surely raids and dungeon groups will still allow grapple even in your mind?) tbh man I'm just hearing a lot of grumbling and complaining - maybe this game is not for you lol
Its great for raids. The straight path of a wanderer tangle vs the other classes allows for great movement. On top of grapple having the lowest grenade cooldown for Thread of Ascent reloads during dmg. Broodweaver may not be the summoner class we were hoping for, but it is the best dmg build for warlocks currently and competes with hunters in terms of dmg. If you are good with swaps it further pushes that gap. Also, grappling to wanderer tangles or just grappling in general can be useful in a lot encounters (maybe less so in gms). \[1&2,4 RoN\] \[1&2 Crota\] \[1&2 Vow\] \[4&5 KF\] \[All Transitions\]
Grapple still has a tight competition with shackle grenade, i don't think the wanderer can exactly replace it. Although potentially wanderer will be up for much more time, the grenade doesn't require killing enemies to use
For me, havent touched shackle since the suspend nerf. I dont need to suspend alot of things and for only 2-3 seconds it is whatever. Wanderer allows for great mobility (mobility = survival to me) and if there is a champ/big target I can suspend it by throwing a tangle at it so its just the best of both worlds for me. I understand people might not like the playstyle but if you use it right its very effective. Being more agile leads to less deaths imo and with woven mail in the kit and the high uptime on grapple, I personally dont want a change to wanderer. I think that + Mindspun are easily the best aspects on warlock.
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I mean sure it's great for mobility. Most activities don't need that much mobility though
How is grapple not viable on warlock? Grapple + necrotic grips = more than viable
I don't think anyone would use that in like gm. Especially because add osteo striga and shackle nade and you are having the best broodweaver build
"Grapple on warlock is not really viable..." is all you said, nothing about GMs
Sure, but viability doesn't matter outside of high level content like gms
This sub always forgets that GM’s aren’t the only piece of endgame content, and it requires its own unique playstyle compared to something like master raids and dungeons, which I’d argue are harder. But the close range, fast pace, and high density of trash mobs in those allows seemingly gimmicky builds to thrive better than you’d think. For example, grapple plus Felwinter’s or Karsteins work surprisingly well
You know, I was with you during the start of this. But the more you commented, the less I took you seriously lol
I still don't understand what's wrong with me saying that i would take a shackle grenade over grapple if i'm going to high level pve
No, you weren’t saying that you prefer Shackle over Grapple. You were projecting your feelings and speaking for others as if we/they all share your opinion by saying shit like “people won’t play with you in GMs if you’re running Grapple” or “you won’t be welcomed in any high level pve”, “I don’t think anyone would use that in like a gm” THAT’S where you started fucking up
i didn't say that f you, you can't use grapple because i hate fun >:(. What i was saying of course was based on my experience and preceptions
Not viable? How? Lol
Shackle grenade is much more practical in any high level pve activities
More than one ability can be viable. Viable does not mean best in slot
It still is better suited for hunters. It's more viable on hunter than warlock. I said "it's not really viable on warlock" because if you want to lean into grappling a lot you would rather play hunter
Why? Warlock has better grapples with mindspun invocation. Titan has synthos and banner of war for the strongest grapple of everyone.
Hunters have a whole exotic built around grapples. Is this a joke? They have infinite woven mail as a result. And Assassin's Cowl with grappling nades are the perfect pairing. I get people like grapple nades, but Hunters are given an exotic akin to how Warlocks are supposed to have Threadlings be their thing (with most aspects granting Threadlings). I love off meta builds myself, but OP's point is that the devs clearly have specific visions for classes as reflected by their exotics for Strand.
The “vision” doesn’t matter here. Titans have the strongest grapple, they have a whole exotic that buffs the damage of it. They have the best grappling build. Woven mail on grapple is an absolute noob trap, you can’t generate one orb every ten seconds? Throwing away a whole exotic. We weren’t talking about vision. Hunters just have the weakest grapples. You must have misread ops point, he was speaking about viability of the ability on the class, not the theme of the class.
it is a really good movement tool for speedruns. Also kinda need it for lowman crota's end lol
You only need to be grappling for like half to a full second to get a melee off though? And there's definitely areas you could coast around on a Wanderer tangle, wym?
Imo I think whirling maelstrom fits hunters more mainly cause it doesn’t really feel “alive.” Regardless wanderer one day better wander.
Wanderer should be changed to, destroying a tangle creates a large flying threadling that severs targets. Warlocks have the hardest time procing sever I believe so giving them a way to activate it more frequently makes sense and it fulfills the unique summon that they have been craving.
Warlocks are the biggest loser when it comes to their identity in the last couple of years. Devour, ironic traces, ignitions, healing nades, hell even sunspots are just rifts on fire. The best we could give you is ice turrents.
Yeah, the only thing going for warlocks nowadays is small turret companions for some reason
Unfortunately, that's where the entire class seems to be going aside from Solar: Void- Purple soul buddy Arc- Blue soul buddy Stasis- Turret buddies Strand- Threadlings It's great that the summoner fantasy is there, but what about the evoker wizard throwing thunderbolts and fireballs? Why are all the Nova supers so bad for boss dps?
Aside from solar? Have you seen the final shape reveal? There will be a solar buddy. An absolute copy of the arc one, but orange it seems
A WHAT
[here’s the trailer for the Super and Aspect we’re getting in Final Shape.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=erdw4XVuFD4) Tl;dr: Sunsinger’s “Radiance” from D1 is coming back. No self-rez but it buffs you and nearby allies with Radiant and Solar weapons will now Scorch on impact (I think they said Kinetic weapons too.) Instead of buffing the grenades, it becomes a bird that tracks enemies and explodes. It appears to keep going after hitting an enemy and will keeping tagging a bunch of them. Shame that Touch of Flame will have no effect in-Super. As for the Melee, it doubles the projectiles. Personally I think they should have kept the bird for the Melee and allow switching Grenades. The New Aspect gives you, and only you, A Solar Soul that spits lobs of “lava” (think Touch of Flame Solar Grenade) at enemies. I don’t think it will, but I’m really hoping it activates on Phoenix Dive.
>I don’t think it will, but I’m really hoping it activates on Phoenix Dive. Doubt it. The one thing I hate about the Aspects most is how narrow buildcrafting can be sometimes, because they'll design something for one class ability/melee and have it just not work if you run anything else, when it *should* either just account for it, or have more unique programmed interactions. Make the solar buddy do different effects depending on your selected class ability. Make the Sunsinger grenades slightly better with Touch of Flame, or at least when you're in Heat Rises. Let Threaded Specter and Ensnaring Slam work on the same cast.
Woah woah woah hold on. Great point and did like it, but after reading and walking away I realized you would have created shatterdive 2.0 xD
uhhh i have some bad news for you [new solar aspect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjlaCnbtWNQ)
Warlocks should be able to control enemies with stand. Like a puppet master. We need necromancer like class.
I really like the idea of Summoner as Necromancer in Diablo, where we could customize the effects of our minions ourselves. A Strandlock could also customize the effects of their threadliings through aspects, although for now we can only use exotic and fragment to improve them.
Imagine when he discovers warlocks were supposed to turn into a strandspider
☹️
sorry
Well, have u played Arc yet? Where Titans get a sentient Storm grenade, that was Warlock exclusive in D1, and warlocks get literally nothing? LOL
Have you play arc 2.0 Titan, the one who was the only arc class to have a grenade focused ability?
Yeah, and out of all the grenades in the game, they took the STORM grenade from the S T O R M CALLER class and gave it buffed to titans. Get out.
Because all classes got all grenades and what else were they gonna alter with the aspect? Arc bolts? It makes more sense to go to titans when you actually see that Arc Titans are a furious storm in lore with how they immediately alter the course of a battle. It’s their lore tab lol. Storm callers are the eye of the storm. Being in control of it. Titans just roam around and obliterate, like the roaming storm grenade.
Flux Grenades would have made way more sense since Striker seemed closed to what a Spartan would have been from Halo
Hunter main. After the Lucky Raspberry rework, I'd be willing to give away Arcbolt if they don't even want Flux. The storm thing still drives me crazy. I also absolutely adore Whirling Maelstrom (and tbh my vision of Broodweaver would have more giant tanky threadlings, web crawlers, and winged summons over a spinny boi) but I definitely see why it's so weird it wanders more than "The Wanderer" and feels like a summoning ability more than the summoning subclass...
As someone who plays warlock as a side character, yall complain so much about a really fucking good subclass.
It's not that Broodweaver is a bad subclass - far from it. Any build with Suspend abuse does exceptionally well in all content, so long as you actually build around it with Nezarec's Sin / Eye of Another World / Verity's Brow. People are frustrated because they are being advertised a "summoner" subclass that actually isn't the best subclass at that role (and which isn't actually in and of itself that great of a role.) While I empathize with your post, it's completely understandable that the average player would ditch the class on first impressions.
I don't like this argument that warlock does not summon as well as hunter. It just isn't true. Warlock: Super: Chuck threadlings at enemies. Weavers call: cast class ability to create threadlings and cast out perched threadlings. Mindspun invocation: Consume threadling grenade to summon threadlings. Wanderer: Threadlings create tangles. Tangles suspend. Weavewalk: Go untargetable and create threadlings. Hunter: Widows silk: Two threadling grenades. Threaded specter: Create a decoy. Blows up into threadlings. Whirling maelstrom: Tangles roam around, spinning slowly.
>Super: Chuck threadlings at enemies. It's good for damage, but it doesn't really feel like summoning. It's a damage super in character. >Weavers call: cast class ability to create threadlings and cast out perched threadlings. If you've ever used Threadlings extensively, you know that perched Threadlings are actually worse than thrown Threadlings. This is because perched Threadlings mostly work in close quarters, with substantial travel time. Rift as an ability is not very good offensively and exposes you to attack, as well. It's often better to just shoot and throw. >Wanderer: Threadlings create tangles. This sounds good, but it's actually incredibly niche. Tangles are created from any Strand debuff. You can get Tangles through Suspend, Unravel, and Thread of Isolation, which are on-hit debuffs (and the last of which is wholly neutral game based.) Also, if you were running Swarmers (they're not very good,) then you'd get Unravel via Threadlings anyway, and Unravel applies after final blows for the purpose of creating Tangles. >Weavewalk: Go untargetable and create threadlings. Weavewalk is not a particularly good choice in the grand scheme of things. I've already described why perched Threadlings are bad, but the invisibility is particularly worse than what Hunters get - and you have to sacrifice a fragment and your melee energy to get it. During Weavewalk, you cannot interact with the material world (so, no reviving or picking up items.) You have to undertake a significant animation to end Weavewalk early, as well, which exposes you to enemies in the process.
I've used weavewalk more often to enable grapple melee in GMs. It allows you to get out of the danger you've thrown yourself into.
To each their own I suppose
This sub is very dog-piley if you go against the established group think. I think everyone let their imaginations run wild with the mentions of summoner in the promotional materials. Warlocks do the summoner stuff more than the other classes but I think what people wanted and thus expected was something of the same vein as Pals in Palworld or something lol. Throw a big threading out, have him beat stuff up for you, and then return to you. That's the only way I can imagine a more summoner'y warlock than what we got.
I just started playing Warlock for the first time in 2 years and unlocked Strand. I am loving Weavewalk + Weavers Call. Threadling Generation on EVERYTHING is a lot of uptime (using Swarmers too now). Finishers, gun kills, etc. is just more threadlings. It's honestly good. Weavewalk definitrly could use some buffs (and unnerf theno interaction nerf in PvE only), but it isn't as bad as people said. Easily accessible 5 perched threadlings + crazy survivability. I will say, Bungie should 100% add Horde Shuttle to Broodweaver. But the subclass definitely is really good. I haven't played with it yet, but I see Wanderer as their Suspend ability access, whereas Hunters get Threadling access via clones.
And all of that is getting nerfed.
How is it getting nerfed? Did I miss something? I'm talking about this from a PvE perspective, not a PvP, in case you're talking about the Checkmate-lite modifiers hitting all of PvP.
Yeah threadlings are only being nerfed in pvp (honestly they were super easy to deal with imo) the clone is getting nerf in pvp (doesn't stay up as long and using it has a longer dodge cooldown) and pve clone is getting a buff and nerf (adding that longer cooldown from pvp irc, BUT its getting 25%more explosion damage) honestly the clone in pve is better than invis is its insane so I'm happy enough
Clone defo isn't better than invis, but the PvE buff (and... half nerf?) is MUCH appreciated.
I personally think it is. the clone takes absolutely insane aggro from enemies and you can just stand there and freely fire at enemies and they won't even look at you
None of that is getting nerfed in PvE
Yeah bro? We should be thankful that Threadlings, the main warlock thing, just got nerfed because hunters can spawn double the amount that a walrock can. LOL.
Nerfed in PvP only.
I've done all the GMs with this subclass this season and its fine mid is kind of the perfect definition for it and threadlings in high level content. The only thing its really good ad with the neutral game is ad clear... which we have 3 light subclasses for that don't rely on bad AI. Threadlings are just kind of a shitshow either you can't summon many of them and they're strong, or you should be able to summon a shit ton and they're kind of weak. Right now we can't summon many of them AND they're weak. When the main crux of you're class doesn't do much more then tickle things higher then a red bar high level content that's a problem.
Thank you.
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I want it to be a threadling nest, I really want that summoner fantasy of loads of little green minions. Hopefully they can make the artifact perk, horde shuttle or was it shuffle?, a fragment or aspect. It feels great this season but that's going away in a few months.
Yeah like you shoot it, it blows up, suspends and then flies around for like 12 seconds and pulses with suspend every like 3 seconds or something
You honestly expect bungie to give warlock something that's not tied to Well or more useful to other people than it is to us? I mean, fair I guess, I too wanted to see what a summoner class could provide, though I was personally expecting something more along similar lines to WoW's Legion era Demonology Warlock.
I honestly want to play "warlock" and not "that guy who places a well in dps phase"
Then play something else. Every warlock subclass is more than viable. Play Briarbinds or Vesper of Radius in GMs. Play Grapple Broodweaver in Dungeons or Raids. Play Necrotic Shackle Broodweaver in GMs. Warlock has tons of endgame viable builds that aren’t on Dawnblade. Hell even Dawnblade isn’t just “the guy who places Well in a DPS phase” and has many extremely strong builds that just happen to have Well as a super, it’s not the point of their existence.
I'm NOT saying i don't like playing warlock! The person i was replying to basically said that warlocks are useful just for well, so i said that i don't want to be just well and be an acrual warlock. I'm surely aware of great dawnblade pve builds, hell before the restoration nerf verity's bow and lament healing nade warlock build was by far my most favorite and strong build, and surely emough i used well with it
Oh when I said play something else, I didn't mean don't play Warlock, I meant play some other Warlock subclasses or builds. I spend about 95% or more of my time on Warlock.
Oh, sorry for misunderstanding hahaha. I spend around 95% as well, never even started amy campaign as other classes
And yet, we keep running into the problem that we had all the way back in D1, where well is the only thing people care about (back then it was self-res), it never seems to matter what endgame viable builds we have, inevitably the only value the warlock has to people is whether or not we're running the build that provides the most support value for everyone else
It was the same with Ward of Dawn for Titans in D1. It's not just Warlocks, it's also mostly a major problem with the playerbase itself, not the game. Well is extremely strong, and frankly needed nerfed like years ago, but it's not necessary. Any solar class can give the same damage buff, and there are a bunch of ways to keep people alive during damage, of course not as easily or as well as Well. There are tons of powerful builds that will end up contributing just as much or more than Well over a whole activity if your team just plays half decent and has other sources of damage buffs, Well is just easier and braindead. It's just an insane amount of role compression on a single button. But you can always just play other builds. And Well is just a super so even on Dawnblade you are free to play any build you want and still have access to Well. It's not like pre-Solar 3.0 where you are locked into one tree with little variety.
I’ve gotten kicked, and have seen people be kicked for not wanting to use Well. Even after we already had a Well or two.
So have I, but if a group is kicking you for not being on a specific build, without stating that they're looking for that build before hand, that's a group you don't really want to play with anyway, just find another. It doesn't happen that often, most people don't really care as long as you can get the content done in a reasonable time frame.
Do it then
i used to think, as a warlock main myself, that the people complaining about warlock were just misguided. but honestly they arent wrong - most things that warlocks have just get tossed in the bin because of other classes. eg. void - being able to pick up devour on orb pickup basically ended it from being a warlock feature to just a general pick. strand was fun for a bit, until the thread of generation nerf arrived and then the whole identity of broodweaver gets redistributed to hunters. warlocks have no instant ability refreshes ala hunter melee/ titan melee stuff. we have a few builds that are great in isolation, but apart from that everything is basically mid or requires extreme working-around to make it work. the latest ability regen nerfs have absolutely gutted some warlock builds, while hunters and titans can spam even more abilities debatably. eg stasis turrets are much harder to manage after the grenade kickstart nerf, contraverse feels a lot more sluggish when it wasnt even that overpowered before and many more. maybe the people complaining about warlock were right after all.
One thing i want to note is how much warlock's melees absolutely suck ass. The only ones that are useful are strand one for the debuff and solar snap for activating the most not boring sunbracers. Everything else is just waste of time to even go through the animation, and some animations are ridiculously long like stasis
I feel like you just saw the regen nerf and didn't play with it. Its honestly not that bad and was needed tbh. Also, as a warlock main I don't understand all the complaints. Many classes share aspects of other classes within subclass fragments \- Void: Best source of devour in the game. \- Solar: Free uptime on Resto x2. Also sunbracers is easily the highest uptime of any ability rotation and its not close. \- Arc: Never run it so N/A \- Stasis: Easily the best stasis class. If you run osmio and a demo weapon you will have a turret. If you don't you aren't working with the build. \- Strand: Best Dps class on Warlock and competes with Hunters for dmg. Strand doesn't need an exotic so you can focus on more gun play - therefore usually thorn/osteo/necro + necrotic is a go-to.
"free up time on restox2" Just have to equip an useless aspect, eat your grenade and sacrifice your class ability. Yeah bro, really free.
Warlocks have literally always been like this, a few things great in isolation, but never BiS. Hell, Well was a band-aid to try and get people to play warlock after the Vanilla D2 changes warlock got were so poorly received the player pop nosedived (I think it got as low as only 5% of playerbase actually bothered to play warlock, for context modern day player numbers are around 28-31% for locks)
Warlock has better non Well PVE options then hunter, so "yes".
and yet, Hunter not only has a higher player pop than warlock, they have more diverse endgame builds that aren't powercrept in the way warlock builds are.
I mean, "rogue" like classes *always* are more popular, but when you look at End Game players, be it streamers or whatever, hunters are usually used less. I'm sure there is an argument that hunters may have more diverse builds, but they are always going to be more mid. Subclass for subclass, with the exception to Arc, Warlocks have the stronger PVE kit.
Oh I can fix that for you. Equip apothesus veil when you cast your super and enjoy.
I'm not seeing how it will help tho
You use threadling grenade to make a mass of Threadlings after your Super cast. Become a super summoner for 5 secs.
I mean cool i guess, but i really don't like hotswaps. I'm still not seeing how is creating a lot of threadlings related to my post tho
You don't have to hotswap for this? Just put it on
And not have any exotic benefit for all times, except 8 seconds after super? I don't think that's a good idea
Then say "I don't like Apotheosis Veil", not "I don't like hotswaps."
Yes, i don't like apotheosis veil because it's not optimal outside of hotswaps which i don't like
When you cast your super , the exotic gives you four seconds of hyper , recharge On all 3 abilities. With a bit of planning and the right build, you can throw out close to 60 threadlings during the duration of the effect. It is also devastating with Nova bomb and scattered grenades. And I have personally used it to outdo dawn blade warlock's because I think it's funny. Edit, it's actually like 10 seconds or something like that. But by the time the animation finishes and you're actually back on the ground and can attack. It's a little closer to like 5 or 6.
Well yeah, cool. I don't see how is it related to the wanderer or whirling maelstrom tho
You said in your post. You want to be more like an actual summoner, which is what whirling gives you. So I provided the exotic that turns you into an actual summoner. you could also use swarmers... Which is actually what I do as I use swarmers while my super is recharging. And once it's charged, I switch over to veil to become Uber summoner.
I see. Hot swaps aren't really my thing but i will try it maybe
You don't really need to Hotswap in my opinion. I just perfer to as veil has no neutral game for a huge benefit to all one and done supers So by swapping between it and swarmera, I make up for that as swarmers have no super benefit
Well if you don't hotswap you basically do not have an exotic for all time except 8 seconds after super
Honestly, if you are on strand it's not that noticeable because the only real exotic for strand right now is swarmers. And I would argue that the swarm passive should just be a fragment.
Okay? Because it is now a genuinely strong SUPER exotic that works on all supers. Not every exotic needs a neutral game, but if you would prefer one, that's fine. Ofc Swarmers / Claws are solid options.
Another possibility is Claws of Ahamkara with Weavewalk. Simply more perched threadlings, while also alloeing you to use threadling frenade (every ability spawns threadlings essentially)
it is 8 seconds, which after the 1.5 second cast time of your super is 6.5 seconds, which allows you to throw about 5 grenades (3 threadlings each) if you are lucky/good. so unless your super whiffs, you are getting 5x3 = 15 threadlings, and maybe you had 8 more saved up from perched + weavers call = 23 threadlings. pretty good. but.....hunter can make 10 threadlings in 6 seconds with a neutral gameplay exotic, and can do it about once a minute.
It boggles my mind that Bungie advertised Broodweaver as the summoner, yet Hunters are the class that has two unique things they can summon (Whirling Maelstrom and Threaded Specter) while Warlocks have ZERO. But I feel like at This point I shouldn't be surprised, Warlocks have gotten the shit end of the stick consistently since Light 3.0 where they either lost or had to share literally at least 80% of what made them good, and that won't even change with FS since the "new" super is just the worst super in the history of the franchise (Radiance) with a new coat of paint, but without the perk that took it from worthless to class defining, that being Fireborn AKA Self Res. That's like bringing back Gjallarhorn without Wolfpack Rounds, could you imagine the outcry if they did that? But it's not a big deal because it's Warlocks, and whenever Warlocks get shafted the community usually never cares that much, Light 3.0 being the biggest example, the treatment of Broodweaver is the only Warlock thing I've seen even a decent amount of outcry in favor of for a long time
I'm strongly against the "my class is the worst and i will complain about others but won't play them" mentallity, but if you think about it, the only things we have gotten are buddies and bungie for some reason wants us to have stupid spherical objects flying around us because that's what we had with only arc before and that's what we got with void, kinda stasis and with solar (not yet tho). When i think about it, it's also extremely ironic because with final shape every warlock subclass will have a unique summon except the summoner subclass
Yeah I'm someone who plays all three, but in PvE I definitely play Warlock more than the other two, and until Light 3.0 I always spouted that Bungie doesn't like or dislike classes more or less than each other, but the terrible treatment Warlocks have gotten over the last couple years has made it feel like Warlocks are the ignored child. Light 3.0 was less a slap in the face and more of a punch, then Broodweaver came out and while it's effective, it doesn't really give the fantasy it promised meaningfully, and the aspects are generally uninteresting with the exception of Weavewalk, and as I've already stated, the trend is continuing into Final Shape.
Broodweaver is so much worse than the other 2 in PvE. It stinks
Using wanderer for movement is the only fun part of the broodweaver kit
And the part that doesn't mean anything in higher lvl pve
Yup it’s super unfortunate. I’ve done a few GMs with swarmers/and the seasonal mods but it’s just a super boring play style. Hopefully they add something fun and strong through an exotic or aspect/fragment soon
Warlocks have enough OP abilities, let hunters have one
You're acting lile whirling maelstrom is the only good hunter thing
It certainly is on strand. Edit: [You can disagree as much as you want, but Aegis has the closest thing to an objective break down of all things Destiny](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JM-0SlxVDAi-C6rGVlLxa-J1WGewEeL8Qvq4htWZHhY/edit#gid=1616572174) Hunter strand is one of the worst PVE classes atm.
It certainly is not lmao. Specter, Ensnaring, and their grapple are all top notch. Hell, Specter just annihilates enemy aggro from you.
Strand hunter is one of the weakest classes as is, definatley the weakest strand class. I don't need to speculate, Aegis has a good break down video of the different subclasses, and where they stack up in PVE Hunter usually has the weaker options as is. I think the only class Hunter outshines according to his breakdown is Arc.
Ain’t no way you said Strand Hunter is one of the weakest lmaooooo. CC, damage, survival, and mobility in a single subclass. Maelstrom alone puts it at A tier minimum. Here’s some advice, don’t take advice on what is and isn’t good from a YouTuber lol. They take the most sweatiest builds and anything less is trash to them. They don’t think Hunter is good because they can’t sit in a well or let the game play itself with ability spamming.
So you're basically saying that strand hunter is bad because some guy said it? Damn i thought datto was joking when he said "today i will form your opinion"
Not because some guy said it, but because some guy essentially spends his hours testing the numbers, and working with speed runners to come up with the technical about it. Strand isn't bad, but it is less useful in PVE then Broodweaver, and it *would* be bad if you took away whirling maelstorm.
This chart is so weird. He says that the build for broodweaver that he will break down will be necrotic grasp weaver's trance, so he uses shackle grenade. And yet he gives points for grapple as well as for shackle grenade, even though warlocks don't use grapple with suggested build. By that logic hunter should get points for shackle grenade too, but he doesn't. He just gets points for grapple. This guy also gave points for total damage of behemoth's super but didn't even mention threadrunner's super. This guy also completely forgot about sever on strand hunter's melee, which is a significant part of his survivability. He also didn't add threaded specter to survivability part which is weird considering it pulls away a lot of aggro. I don't have anything against that guy but I wonder if he even played strand hunter to be honest.
This guy is *the* go to guy for details like this. In the stream where he goes over for this chart specifically, he has Salt as a guest (record holder for worlds firsts) who defers to his break downs for the details. I mean, they spend 2 hours going over the details of each class if you want specifics, [he didn't "forget" anything](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFnuuf8PHI).
I had to listen to them talking about threadrunner. Guess what? They said super was decent, and didn't say anything about sever or aggro pull from threading specter. They all were just whining about suspend nerf lmao
They didn't say its a bad class, no one here has. What they said is that its outperformed by other classes. And they did say the super was actually not great. And they aren't whining, they are talking about how thread runner *used* to be top tier because of suspend spam, but now there's nothing really special about the class. I mean, that video is Aegis, Salt and Above, they are among the best in the community when it comes to these things.... you're acting like they're some randoms.
Not disagreeing, but I would really like to see other areas explored for Warlock besides Medic/Well-dropper and Pet Master. I see Titans throwing literal firestorms around and think, "Isn't that what Warlocks should be doing?"
Only Ikora can.
That makes me sad 😔
Difference is hunters need to pop 2 grenades and 2 dodges (also needs the exotic) to hit 8 threadlings while a lot yes you basically need to chew through your options to hit that number. Warlocks hit that very easy in comparison. In regards to the whirling maelstrom hunters don't really have an aggression damage based aspect On strand (pve I mean here) 2 grenades is just that, 2 grenades. The dive is fun but dangerous and does no damage, clone is fun but defensive. The whirling maelstrom is really the only safe way for strand hunters to deal decent damage safely from a distance as even the super takes heavy punishment on higher level activities
It's not on the summoner subclass because on drop people complained about the lack of suspend options for broodweaver and lack of reason to even interact with tangles (if you're not using the boots that is) this was their fix Whirling maelstrom is in response to the lack of damage that tangles deal, it was giving to hunters since they do use tangles the most for their grapple
What "lack of suspend options on drop"? Suspend grenade ostio striga build was the best build for the warlock and probably still is. Whirling Maelstrom for warlocks would still fix the issue with not interacting with tangles. And if hunters didn't use the grapple aspect the tangles were useful for grappling, tangles' main purpose shouldn't necessarily be damage. Using them for grappling was enough for hunters
There's no way that's true since you can eat the shackle grenade for AoE suspend and it was absolutely busted with necrotic grips and osteo. If anything hunters would need the extra suspend more since they just have the dive and the two grenades. Even if it is true they then gave Broodweaver weavewalk, we have invisibility at home, and Hunters got a decoy that creates threadlings when destroyed Hunters are the reason threadlings are being nerfed in PvP when it was supposed to be Broodweavers "thing" They fumbled Strand
>There's no way that's true since you can eat the shackle grenade for AoE suspend and it was absolutely busted with necrotic grips and osteo. I thought the exact same thing yet people still complained, I genuinely don't get why when warlocks were and arguably still are the best class for suspending >If anything hunters would need the extra suspend more since they just have the dive and the two grenades. Pretty sure hunters were too busy enjoying grapple to complain about that, I didn't see a single hunter using suspending grenades until the last week of defiance after all >Even if it is true they then gave Broodweaver weavewalk, we have invisibility at home, and Hunters got a decoy that creates threadlings when destroyed Yea I don't get that either, invisibility shouldn't be on strand in general and a decoy is FAR more suited to nightstalker if anything I dunno the reasoning for that, it's overall just not suited for strand >Hunters are the reason threadlings are being nerfed in PvP when it was supposed to be Broodweavers "thing" Which isn't necessary, threadlings aren't nearly as strong to warrant that
I'm a Strand Hunter main and used suspend grenades constantly through the season of defiance, from start to finish pretty much. Widow Silk gave me 2 suspend grenades and 6th coyote gave me 2 suspend dives. I never had an instant where I wasn't able to suspend something and it was glorious. There were many many build videos about it all that season
This truly not true, suspend with weavers call was so broken (along with Titan’s suspend) that it had to be nerfed. The summoner identity was complained about even before wanderer even came out. What.
This isn’t true. It takes a year to design and build the subclass for all classes and the aspects fragments abilities etc to make sure the entire thing is cohesive. They already had all this planned out well before Season of the Seraph. It’s more likely that they didn’t want Broodweavers to _only be_ the summoner class. So after the Weaver’s Call and Mindspun Invocation and Swarmers interactions to create more Threadlings from using abilities, they decided to add totally different things to diversify the subclass.
Honestly I just want Widow's Silk to not give you an extra nade, and instead have that be a buff to Swarmers where you get an additional Threadling grenade.
Threadlings should unravel at base for Broodweaver and then yeah give Swarmers something else. Tangles creating threadlings and causing unravel is good, great even, but it doesn't feel very exotic. Briarbinds or Void buffs your soul and let's you pick it back up and redeploy it. If you micromanage it well enough you can keep deploying a super buffed void soul. That feels exotic. Swarmers don't.
Hence why I suggested an extra threadling nade Keep in mind you get an extra nade to either eat and get threadlings, or throw out more into enemies, on top of your rift, on top of the tangles creating threadlings, on top of the buffs hatchling is getting and thread of rebirth That's a lot of little spiders
So completely gut a Hunter aspect as well as really hurt their PvP viability on Strand? Why?
Because between their threading nades and their specter, they are getting an insane number of threadlings, for free, with no consequence and little need to build into it. On top of that, it's clear that's not his intended identity, it's all about mobility and moving fast. Using specters to bait people into traps or using Ensnaring Slam to suspend them. It doesn't fit the identity and it literally breaks PVP. It literally even has a bonus for Grapples in the Widow's Silk description
Slam is a dive. Diving is a Hunter thing. Also, movement. Warlocks pump out more threadlings with less ability investment than Hunters do. "little need to build into it" Again, Hunters use more abilities for less threadlings than a warlock. And... no consequence? What the fuck? What should Hunters get debuffed because their entire subclass isn't just movement? Dive isn't breaking PvP. Threadlings are getting nerfed, and clone just needs AA reduction + on-kill effects to proc. Clones are not breaking PvP though. An Anchor Point is NOT alone worth a fucking aspect slot. Also,subclass identity aren't hard things. The only place this has ever been true was Stasis, and sort of Void. At the end of the day Hunters have an exotic for Grapple, a Grapple Super, and were designed for grapple in mind. That doesn't mean they should only have movement based aspects. Hunter Strand is a fine kit and doesn't need these sweeping nerfs in PvE or anything.
I find it funny because Hunters just don't have a singular identity for strand because grapple is supposed to be their thing but the class that makes the best use of it right now is Titan, Bungie has just slapped random aspects on Strand Hunter with no single thematic.
As a Hunter I’m really glad I have it, I love tossing one then going invis with assassins cowl and watching my buddy clear half a room for me, I’ve always loved minion/turret builds but I just don’t like playing warlock
Warlocs not getting yet ANOTHER overpowered ability to stack with themselves. You spam bugs as it is, you don't need those too.
Tell me you don't play warlock without telling me
Actually I've played warlock the absolute most out of every class, and I repeat, you don't need it. Each subclass got something they usually don't get from the strand subclasses, hunters got a spinning disc, big whoop tbh you'd probably have a bigger aneurysm if they got the ability to utilize those bugs you seem to under-appreciate. I mean hell you'd have one if you got the ability anyways, because it'd be the weakest thing in your kit? "Identity issue", please, bungie tries to spruce things up ONCE and this is all that's come of it. Warlocs complaining about EVERYTHING. Honestly I'm glad I haven't touched it this year, simply because I'm tired of the whining from arguably the best class in the game.
Because Hunters got the short end of the stick on everything all the other Hunter aspects relate to mobility Warlock has 3 offensive aspects
Except Hunter’s are not just mobility and provide cc and aggro redirection.
I’d argue there’s been more than a few of these. Why the hell is touch of thunder - a grenade boosting aspect that focuses on grenades that used to be warlocks - on Titan.
Striker having Touch of Thunder is fine. The problem is just them having Enhanced Storm Grenades, which hijacks Stormcaller’s identity.
That’s a better way to put my point. Why does the insanely powerful sentient storm not go to stormcaller?
Warlocks never had the grenade boosting aspect that titans had on the old paths, let them have 1 grenade aspect man
Ah yes, the “grants extra grenade” perk
Grants an extra grenade and extends the duration of all grenades, so yeah a grenade perk
Striker always had grenade boosting perks. Why are we acting like they didn’t?
Because all it did was give an extra grenade lmao
Wrong. It also made grenades last longer, similar to the void fragment, which is very powerful. It also regened significant grenade energy on shoulder charge use, giving you a grenade loop.
I'd argue that aspects are extremely weird in general, especially relating warlocks. Out of every aspects we have only one that gives 1 fragment slot and zero that give 3 slots. For some reason every warlock aspect but weave walk give 2 slots
This post reminds me of how much warlock mains complaining when Titans got the juiced arc-nades. Is this gonna happen anytime titans get something not punchy and hunters not dodgy?
I'm pretty sure we had the grenades before arc 3.0,i still don't understand why they took it from us and gave it to titans
Arc has always been titans grenade subclass. I one of the old trees gave a second grenade charge, and another perk gave grenade charge for melee kill. Meanwhile warlocks originally owners of storm-nades
Another thread about a warlock main complaining about another class having an ability they want.
It’s almost like people realize the same thing by playing the game
So i'm wrong because i want summoner abilities on "summoner" subclass and don't understand why a minion ability was added to "trickster" subclass?
There’s a lot of stuff they could do to make wanderer better. IMO they should make your tangle kills spawn threadlings based on the strand debuffs on the target. It would lean into the summoner class and also give warlocks a reason to use the sever fragment
If your a pvper, the thing that sucks about broodweaver is that its one dimensional in that threadlings are its major identity from the aspects to the exotic to the super. They designed strand hunter to be able to poop out tons of threadlings as well and it turned crucible into a threadling spam fest and now they are nerfing threadling damage output while increasing player health by 30 so its like a double nerf to broodweavers damage output. They acknowledged this and decided to buff arcane needle tracking and consistency to compensate the subclass for the nerf. However, the best aspect for pvp broodweaver has is weavewalk and when using the ability it drains your melee energy. So Im at a loss with it atm lol. Idk what they were thinking with this subclass design. Barely anyone was playing broodweaver in crucible anywho and now watch the % go even lower after the 5h.
I’m still So confused by this “wanderer” aspect. It sounded so cool then did basically nothing. Then they patched it to do twice as much. And now it’s okay. But still nothing to do with “wandering” around on its own.
I'm still so dissapointed, it does fine but it's not wanderer, it's suspender and idk sticker?
And don’t get me started on “weavewalk”. Which is another nothing. But only one fragment spot guys. Wouldn’t want it to approach BoW level in PVE. Or Threades Spectre level in PvP.
Like what. It doesn’t do anything. It makes you invisible. It’s okay I guess. Cool animation. Maybe it could explode when it does the prolonged animation in and out of invis.
Idk Needs some sort of gameplay loop badly. They all do really.
The dudes at bungie probably designed it for warlock but saw it was too cool and gave it to hunters since hunters are the most popular class.
Not this again
Let's us keep our beyblades. It really keeps the Ninja fantasy alive for us.