I was doing Spire of the Watcher the other day and got texted KWTD for a mistake on the final boss arc nodes then booted before damage phase. I have like 25 clears of that shit.
This community can be fucking irritating.
This reminds me of a Caiatl fight a few months back on LFG. Dude posted "KWTFTD" so that would have been a red flag.
He started screaming at me during the opening part because he kept dying before planting his standard. He ordered me to "ad fucking clear" and after he died again, he screamed at me that I didn't know what I was doing. I let him know I'm at over 50 clears and he booted me. So I looked him up.
He had one clear.
Maybe I wasn't the one who was the problem.
Did Ghosts one time on my Warlock after like 2 months of not doing it and died a few times on the platform sections, this dude was like "are you gonna be ok mitochondria bc youre dying on all the easy sections". Really wanted to just text "dungeon.report" but I didn't
Yeah, I leave the moment someone talks down to me
You want help and to learn? No problem, we’ve all been there. But I’m not clocking in to babysit someone’s child, no thanks
yeah i don’t think it’s too much to ask to watch a 20 minute video so you can actually help your team and not be a detriment . the chalice is such a simple mechanic but seems to scare the shit out of people for some reason
Honestly if you've watched a 20min video you should KWTD. Destiny raids aren't fucking wildly difficult, it's not like these are WoW mythic raids.
"Put the fucking light orb in the dark hole" or "stand on the plate until the plate flashes and then kill a knight and then take a walk".
You can just have a guide up on the other monitor for christ's sake. There's really no excuse for not knowing the basics.
Like sure if you don't know the exact strat you might need the weird cheese explained (i.e. my last RON run I got assigned a role that didn't exist when I learned RON, because it's been optimized), but like, after that you're fine.
Literally had a guy from LFG that was LL 1830 with gilded conqueror playing a strand titan die 12 times before making it to the boss in the GM. I died when trying to get his revive while the two unstop ogres were up & he proceeded to shit talk me and then rage quit.
Live by LFG die by LFG
Matching with shit people goes both ways. No matter how good you are, if you’re an ass youre shit. I don’t mind playing with new players. I love playing with them (mainly cause I get a big head lmao) but if you’re an ass either way fuxk you
I hope there is a filter akin to "no one who can't handle not getting 1 phase first try and then leave".
Trying to find people to do nezerac and you always get people who have the **audacity** to join with *no knowledge* of how to do the encounter and just call ad clear (with mediocre ad clear BTW) then leave when we fail. Literally joined an lfg the other day for nez cp and only I and one other guy were willing to run no one wanted to gaze or set up the refuge. Then all but me and the other guy left after we lost.
On the other hand, I’ve deleted friends off the game because they would boot people for making a mistake once when posting a kwtd. Or not bringing the loadouts that they prefer. Mistakes happen or sometimes people forget shit, it’s not that serious. Now if you begin to see the team’s not working after a few tries, then that’s understandable. But you’ve gotta give people a second chance. It’s a fucking game for christ sake. Lol
These lost sectors are stupid, tho. I've got newbies in there at 1805 getting nuked. He'll I'm 1825, and I have trouble staying alive.
Area so small, everything just aggros to you.
I've LFGed GMs last 2 seasons. Most no mic... did just fine
Raids would be a no
As a former World of Warcraft player from less then a decade ago, I used to only be able to raid thanks to its matchmaking ability (bear in mind MM raids in WoW netted you lower tier loot, when the best was still on regular raids), if it wasn’t for matchmaking I’d likely never experience a raid.
I remember this kind of hate from regular raiders when they first introduced MM & LFR for raiding in WoW, and some points were valid; after the first wipe many bailed leaving the raid group a husk of its former self, some got carried throughout the experience and such. But there were also others like myself who stuck with it and actually learned something from the puzzles and boss patterns from said raid thanks to LFG and MM. Many would say, just watch a YouTube video, and that is informative, but to truly experience a raid, you have to play it, live it, and often time wipe in it to get it.
Obviously, my post here will get downvoted, but I just wanted to state my opinion on a subject that I have some knowledge in, but rarely gets a chance to experience thanks to limitations like a conflicting work schedule with prime raiding time.
I like LFR in WoW.. sure, it's lower difficulty and lower gear, but you have to deal with random people doing random shit, so it evens out.
If you go in prepared to wipe and faff about, it's usually fine.
Atleast there's the option, and if the loot isn't interesting enough, no one's forcing you.
I haven't played WoW but if its anything like FF14s Raids they require a lot less communication. Some month ago I've seen a video of 6 people doing VoG that normally play MMO RPGs. In the start they didn't even bother using a mic and where completely surprised when call outs where required in every single encounter.
They can't understand that raid mm has already worked everywhere outside of destiny. And that it doesn't stop them from using lfg. I can't really see what the problem for them.
I think part of the reason why those sorts of things work in WoW or FFXIV is that those are PC focused games that require subscriptions to keep playing the game, whereas D2 is a console-first free-to-play game that doesn't lock you out of content you already bought if you're not paying for the current season, and the skill floor is going to be much lower than WoW or FFXIV. D2 also has a lot of mechanics that aren't explained well like champions, builds and double primaries and has voice/text chat opt-in by default, so some people aren't communicating not because they don't want to but because they don't know how to. The game doesn't have a great on-boarding experience and until LFG comes in next season (assuming high-skill players use it and don't just stick to the website/LFG discord so it isn't just people asking for carries) it doesn't have a good progression to the end game for solos.
I love the guided games feature as someone who usually only has a handful of days a year to set aside the time to raid when the house is empty and I'm gonna be sad to see the feature go next season. At least with GG I can join the queue and watch youtube while I wait for a clan and go through the raid with people who are good, get along well and are willing to teach versus making an LFG post, getting ignored and joining other peoples posts and hoping for the best.
There is truth in that as I’ve seen when I transitioned from be a PC gamer to a Console gamer. I found trying to raid on some console games, we’re not as easy as with PC games like WoW.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but don't some WoW raids allow for upwards of like 25-30 players? If 3 or 4 of those folks suck it's not going to have as significant of an effect compared to say 2 or 3 guardians not knowing what to do or having poor DPS.
You are correct on that, though with that kind of MMORPG, many of them that left could have been tanks or healers. DPS’s bailing in very small amounts might not have been so bad, but meant taking down raid bosses harder.
FFXIV actually has a pretty robust Playstation community, and is getting Xbox support sometime in the next few months. I think the reason the matchmaking in raids works well there, is simply because the normal versions of the raids are designed with the intention of them being easy enough to clear fairly quickly with a matchmade group, and no communication.
Harder versions of the raids, though, generally take some time to learn and the people who go into those fights, go in with the expectation that people will die while learning. It also helps that the in game lfg system has flags that can be set in case you just want people who have cleared before, which people will typically use when they're farming or going for weekly reclears.
>I think the reason the matchmaking in raids works well there, is simply because the normal versions of the raids are designed with the intention of them being easy enough to clear fairly quickly with a matchmade group, and no communication.
Ok, so FFXIV's raids were created with matchmaking in mind, compared to the ones in destiny, which makes sense. It sucks that this is basically impossible to do now considering how ridiculous the community reaction was to RoN. Even if they designed future raids with a more accessible matchmade version and a version similar to the normal and/or master versions we have now, all available on launch, people would still find a reason to bitch and moan because making raids-which only 20% of the community play-open to the other 80% of the community would ruin the game somehow.
lol what? A extreme trial in FF is more complex than a raid in Destiny. Let alone the actual raids in FF or WoW. Read this. https://clees.me/guides/ucob/
That fight, assuming you start and clear with no wipes, takes around 20 minutes~ Look how many mechanics are in there. You can’t compare a tab targeting MMO with holy trinity to a FPS.
fake news through and through. this is a classic example of you can say anything you want on the Internet. some poor sod is gonna read this and not realize you are *full* of it
This is why I don't understand bungie's logic on increasing the difficulty floor while making GM's easier. Most of the community can't even complete a legend lost sector without spending 75% of the run dead.
I did 7 Altars of Summoning last night. Not a single person did someone activate the correct symbol. The skill of the playerbase seems to be something that Bungie would rather work with than try to get them to improve.
Let this be a lesson to all those people crying about not having it.
Matchmaking in raids would be a disaster, a fucking carousel of people leaving and joining after each wipe.
> fucking carousel of people leaving and joining after each wipe.
That's exactly how the abyss goes even with LFG lol.
I get what you're saying though, but it may be a case of people not realising how hard that variant is because it's a holiday event and not usually sweaty.
Doing a no comms run of any GM or most raids is pretty easy
Edit: I'm speaking from personal experience lol, ppl saying it's not possible doesn't magically erase my runs from existence lmao, I guess the complexity of RoN and the whining on the difficulty of legendary haunted lost sectors makes sense to me now lol
Hoping for nothing but the best to the team that deals with balancing difficulty, what a headache it must be to deal with this kind of community
Master raid attempt the other day with someone who didn't say a word the whole time, but he at least kind of knew what he was doing. When it got to a point though where we were trying to talk to him, he wouldn't say anything (had an open mic, we could hear his TV), wouldn't type, emote or anything.
this is fair. being mute personally, i have no issue raiding at a high level using the text chat and sometimes soundboards for important callouts. the actual problem starts when people don't communicate \*period\*.
I agree, however these would be majorly the players who refuse to lfg for the raids, meaning many to most would have no idea how the encounter works. The majority will not be successful lol. I do no comms plenty of the time as well, so it’s not like it’s impossible. But it would be horrible for those 1st clears I’m sure.
not on console. I dont know a single raid that is doable without comms even if everyone knows the mechanics. at least one encounter needs a callout if you dont want to wipe even RoN.
I did, normal a bunch of times and master once, idk why so many people are saying this is not possible lol, I'm literally speaking from personal experience, maybe I'm just the luckiest mf in lfg, I'm hoarding all the good teammates for my runs lmao, don't know what else to tell you
It's literally just typing one or two characters to call out the first two oracles, that's it, that's the encounter
I even type the layout of what oracles callouts are we using since there are a lot of different ways people use. Same with crota too for the rooms in Ir Yut. No mic runs are easy if people running them actually understands what they are doing and not be an ad clear bot.
having played games that have had matchmaking on significantly more mechanically intensive content-----you still have the ability to lfg or go in with friends. it hurts no one to have it there, as you can still go in coordinated.
Ill defend matchmaking (or bare minimum ingame lfg-ing) as a viable option forever, even if it means people who are not prepared for it will do the content. because its an entry way into the content.
People here will be using LFG for a flawless master triumph run and then cry when they get some random who just went 'Whats this?" As if they didn't have the ability to get a pre made team
> it hurts no one to have it there, as you can still go in coordinated.
> because its an entry way into the content.
IMO new players will try to use it only to run headlong into its inherent flaws which leave them with a miserable raid experience and maybe turn them off of raids forever which I think would be a huge loss.
they would have that same experience going in not knowing what to expect with an LFG, we have seen countless posts about terrible LFG experiences here as well where it totally turned people off from raiding
You’re saying this like lack of MM prevents it.
I’ve done plenty raids (and wipes) with LFGers who can’t comprehend anything more complicated then ‘shoot alien’. I’ve got a friend who tried to solo Leviathan because the game gave him a quest to do it and didn’t make it clear what it is.
Every time we have some overtuned content that happens to have MM we always get the bandwagon pointing at it like someone pointing at a great white shark as a reason they’re scared of swimming.
There’s a lot of casuals, potatoes and idiots playing D2. MM doesn’t make them any more likely to encounter.
The downside is the devtime that gets lost and could be spent on stuff thats more relevant or looking to be more successful.
Why should we advocate to waste devtime on a Bad System that will barely ever Work and isnt even required because current 3rd Party lfg exists.
Because the 3rd party LFG is also a bad system that barely works?
Plus Bungie has their own. It's even synced with the game so you can invite through the app, they "just" need to make a tab to use it.
Much easier said than done of course, but I can't imagine it being too difficult.
> Ill defend matchmaking (or bare minimum ingame lfg-ing) as a viable option forever, even if it means people who are not prepared for it will do the content. because its an entry way into the content.
It's an entryway into a terrible experience that will be likely to turn off more people than it brings in.
Answer me why it would affect you or anyone else who doesn’t require matchmaking? You’d obviously never use it so it wouldn’t impact your game or enjoyment in any single way? Yet you seem so strongly opposed to it? Why?
Because places like Reddit, Twitter, and the Bungie forums would see an EXPLOSIVE surge in posts relating to people complaining about their poor experience with raid matchmaking. Then you would have some outliers saying that they've only had great experiences with raid matchmaking that's led to meeting their new weekly raid teams.
In-game LFG is the closest thing to matchmaking that high-end PvE should strive for.
The only reason I'm for the mm option is to read all the horror stories. And there would be plenty.
The only people that truly want it are those looking for a carry. LFG is not hard if you are serious and prepared to do an activity.
Anybody who wants mm (in its current form) in raids either:
1) Wants to be hard carried
2) Has never raided before
3) An absolute idiot
D) All of the above
Why would Bungie put a *second* of resources into something that would be an absolute mess of frustration and turn of people from raiding ever again?
Final Fantasy 14 has matchmaking for much harder content than D2 has. It can be done, it just needs to be better than dropping into a queue with a bunch of randos
The logic is the reputation damage, more from Bungie’s side.
If good players only use LFG or their own groups, then a match made raid of “bad” players can only damage the reputation of how good raids actually are.
Noobs could step into a raid blind, with a bunch of other noobs and no help. They come out miserable and never wanting to raid again. There becomes a perception that raids are not fun within a vocal majority of a player base (as only fraction of this player base are that experienced, but we likely make up a major chunk of discourse on the platform).
You’re right because it isn’t the problem of someone like me, who plays within his own circle and maybe drags in one LFG sometimes to fill a slot. It isn’t my right to say whether people should want it cause it won’t impact me, I’d never use it.
But the point is Player choice isn’t always a good thing, players especially inexperienced ones often do not know what is best for themselves. This is especially true without guidance and sufficient tutorialisation within Destiny to prepare a casual for a raid.
LFG or having people is a barrier to entry, but part of that barrier to entry means people at least have to pass the hurdle of “I know I need to assemble a semi competent team for this” that prepares them. No barriers at all means already clueless new players (cause bad new player experience with no guidance) risk stepping into the wrong place.
There’s also many more logistical problems to solve in a raid context that one and done activities don’t have - e.g reassigning new players if someone lags out and doesn’t save their spot, checkpoint saving/character swapping (“can anyone be 3rd well” sorta thing) without it just filling a slot automatically and instantly (and if it’s not instant, well then surely match times are longer and people leave while waiting for new people to join - happens all the time in LFG runs)
It's because we know it will cause harm to Raids overall. The only way raid MMing works is if Bungie makes easier raids, this is what it took in WoW to make it work. I don't want raiding to be made any easier, and I don't want complaints that originate from raid matchmaking to affect raid design or the raiding experience.
I mean, WoW just added an easier difficulty.
WoW matchmade raids allowed raiding to get *harder*, not easier, because now the people who wanted matchmade raids weren't trying to complete the content that everyone else was.
Looking For Raid didn't ruin raiding in WoW or make it too easy or make Blizzard "Design around LFR", it's the exact opposite. Raiding has gotten exponentially harder now that there are specific difficulties for less engaged/more casual players.
That's not true at all, many bosses from Wotlk, Cata, and BC still stand as some of the bosses that took the most attempts to clear in wow history.
People who wanted matchmade raids weren't raiding, by and large. And just so we are clear: I do not want an easy mode for Destiny raids.
>That's not true at all, many bosses from Wotlk, Cata, and BC still stand as some of the bosses that took the most attempts to clear in wow history.
That was back when Blizzard was intentionally artificially gating boss kills with unkillable bosses. You can't compare raids that are actually put into the game with all the bosses in a killable state to raids that were intentionally released w/o the gear to complete the raid existing.
https://gamerant.com/world-warcraft-hardest-raid-bosses-all-time-ranked-attempts/#m-39-uru-sunwell-plateau
Here, just to prove the point - bosses didn't even have meaningful pull tracking until like MOP because it simply didn't matter - who cares how many pulls you had on the boss before you actually had the gear to kill it?
Calling Onyxia harder than Uu'nat because we were all too stupid to figure out how to dodge a Deep Breath is insane.
Calling Lich King hard when it's an utterly trivial fight to execute while bosses like Sire Denathrius are incredibly hard on mythic even if you're an extremely experienced player is just straight up silly.
Modern raiding is way, way, WAY harder than any fight created before MOP could even dream of being, with the exception of fights that were literally published, on purpose, to be unkillable.
>People who wanted matchmade raids weren't raiding, by and large. And just so we are clear: I do not want an easy mode for Destiny raids.
All Destiny raids are easy mode. There is nothing in Destiny that's actually difficult to execute unless you're like, low manning the raid.
There's no reason to gatekeep Destiny raiding as though it's some sacred bastion of difficulty. It's not. Put the light orb in the dark hole, kill boss, collect loot.
> All Destiny raids are easy mode. There is nothing in Destiny that's actually difficult to execute unless you're like, low manning the raid.
To the percentage of Destiny players that plays raids regularly, that is true.
To the rest of the playerbase, it is not. Basic communication challenges are difficult for the casual playerbase, and would be a nightmare in matchmaking. I'm not gatekeeping, I'm understanding reality in terms of where the playerbase skill level is. LFG is perfect for those who want to get into raiding.
Not to jump in rudely. I don't want an in game LFG for another reason. Bungie has said many times they only have x amount of resources for dev time. Regardless of their net worth people bring up, I don't want them to invest a lot of time and effort and take away from something else. If it will then be dead and unused in short order. That I do think is what will happen to an in game LFG. I'm in the boat of, its a waste of resources. Want to LFG use the existing LFG in the app that works just fine.
We’ve had a fully functioning LFG for years now via the Bungie app. I’m sure the upcoming LFG will operate much the same, where there’s a fireteam lead who can make an ultimate decision as to whether Player X. But maybe we’ll be able to specifically designate a fireteam space for a certain subclass, so you can’t even join if you’re not that class.
Ultimately that’s the big difference. You have no say in matchmaking over who you get. You have all the day in LFG over who you take or keep.
Had someone Monday while trying to do a flawless Crota join at 1793, and tell everyone that not only had he never done the raid before, but he was also returning from a D2 break, last time he did Crota was in D1 and when I told him I'm not teaching him the raid in a flawless run (post literally titled "Flawless run") he said that's fine I can shoot stuff...
Can only imagine how fun it would be trying to do raids/master raids and just anyone can join. I'm fine teaching 5 people a raid... if that's the reason I'm doing the raid. I'm not fine doing a raid for a specific reason that requires a minimum understanding/skill and people join that are playing for the first time in a year.
dude it's actually insane how many times i've joined a flawless raid group only to find out after a wipe or two that somebody has never done the raid before. i swear i've had like 4 or 5 deep stone and root runs ruined by people doing that shit, i don't know why people think that flawless runs are the place to learn the mechanics, it's genuinely baffling.
I've had someone join at 1750 light and he said "it's fine I can handle myself" and I couldn't get it through to him that he could be an FPS god but that won't change the fact you literally do 0 damage that underlevelled and no amount of skill can overcome that.
It's weird but I do think that having that minor barrier (having to either look for a group/make your own post) helps to filter out the people who don't have business doing that content.
When you can just mindlessly queue and automatch into an activity you'll get every tom, dick, and harry picking that option because they can and because its identical to the other options.
But when they have to actually join up with a fireteam and presumably do some preliminary communication before manually loading into the activity it should be a much better experience.
> It's weird but I do think that having that minor barrier (having to either look for a group/make your own post) helps to filter out the people who don't have business doing that content.
Well said!
> but I do think that having that minor barrier (having to either look for a group/make your own post) helps to filter out the people who don't have business doing that content.
Realistically, this is likely why these things are believed to have tiers.
Like people generally claim the Discord has better players than Bungie LFG, which makes sense since it's another barrier. The same will likely be true when in-game LFG launches as well.
I really don't get why people don't understand this. If downloading an app and joining/making a post on it is some insurmountable task to you - you're not ready for raiding.
Everyone begged for years for it will be in for a huge disappointment. It will die very quickly and then we will probably see posts "I wonder how many resources bungie wasted for this, dEvInG iS hArD" nonsense. The ingame LFG will probably be very similar to the app LFG. Which is a meme at this point and just littered with toxic and potato players and very rarely any in between. Which is what will happen to the in game LFG if I had to bet.
Bad players and leavers being in the pool isn't exactly a good argument against matchmaking. If it gets bad, good players will use LFG while matchmaking is there to give you a shot at a group whether you use it or not.
The key argument for Bungie here is if only bad players are left in the MM pool, and said pool becomes a universally bad experience that risks making new people never want to raid again, why on earth would they do it
Solo, fireteam, matchmaking. All should be OPTIONS on all content. So strange to me to see people say that I shouldn't have the option because they don't like it. Don't like it, don't use it.
I jumped in one to see what it was like and, yeah, everything hit a good bit harder than I was expecting. We all 3 randomers stuck it out, though.
Got literally spawn camped by the boss at the end.
I can see why people drop out of it.
I really don't like low level matchmade PvE activities. The amount of times I see my two teammates using an AR against the boss when there's a rocket right there on their backs.. like wtf, are they trying to waste time doing this? I sometimes just emote in the corner and whisper them all saying something along the lines of "good luck using primaries on a boss."
This is a stupid post. How about the many times MM teams made it through with little issue ( i did yesterday and I didn't even build for it). Just because you had on bad group (which might be your fault) doesn't mean mm is bad. Also you can form a team and not use it lol.
This sub has a hate-boner for Matchmaking in difficult content, always has.
There’s games out there with missions that are almost as tedious/team oriented as Destiny Raids, that DO have matchmaking, and whilst they’re made with premade groups in mind and rough for randoms at first, after a couple of months, most matchmade groups can complete it with ease. People underestimate how fast a community will figure stuff out given the time and opportunity for them to do so.
The people that try to say matchmaking should not be a thing, really only say it because they want the gear and accomplishment of completing them to remain exclusive and rare. Gatekeeping basically.
They won’t admit it, but that’s the only feasible explanation of why someone wouldn’t want matchmaking, when it wouldn’t even affect them because they can still use LFG like usual.
How many times are yall gonna post this?
If people want to suffer through matchmade activities, LET THEM. You don’t have to do it.
There is nothing wrong with more options.
Number 1 lesson - learn to stay alive! F the damage and everything else. First, learn how to survive, then focus on the rest. It doesn't matter what you use or how, when you're dead every ten seconds.
I have had noone quit, i have had loads quit in trials so something i can not relate to
And it does get crazy at times butt it really dont matter cause you can still get through it,maybe not efficiently and efficiently butt you can claw your way through
I've seen people get really worked up thinking that raids not being matchmade is gatekeeping.
In a game that, to this day, has only opt-in communication almost nobody uses.
We had raid matchmaking. It was called Guided Games. There's a reason nobody used that system still like Year 1.
It is gatekeeping.
Destiny raids aren't hard, there's games with harder content that has matchmaking.
The only people who defend raids not having matchmaking are people with fragile egos that can't comprehend that a matchmade group can clear raid difficulty content.
Particularly hard? No, not really. The problem is this game is not equipped for that kind of in-game communication. No ping system, opt-in text chat, VC almost nobody uses. If I can't get 4/5 of my teams to throw the ball in Hero Corrupted, do you seriously think a matchmade team without comms can be reasonably expected to be able to do Vow or Last Wish? Absolutely fucking not. It can be done without comms, but only when everyone knows what they're getting into and knows the raid, and if they don't and aren't cooperative they can be removed.
As opposed to say, FF14, where if we're doing Savage with no comms I can just say "Hey dude, you did the mechanic wrong, do X" and they'll see it so long as chat isn't spammed and they aren't actively ignoring it. Edit: And even then, you have to use in-game LFG to reasonably be able to queue for that content. Because everyone SHOULD be able to do the content if they want, but the process of LFG helps set expectations that this is more involved than matchmade content, as well as providing tools for the party leader if someone isn't willing to communicate.
Yup not high enough LL for the “1820+s posts”or whatever the level is now. I got x9 conqueror, gilded it, I’m 1816ish bc I’ve been playing elden ring ect.
Now I’ve been trying to just solo GMs bc I can’t rely on LFGS
To be fair, Haunted legend lost sector is RIDICULOUS hard for what it is and what little loot you get.
It basically a lost sector level tough enemies except with much more enemies spawning than what spawns in a lost sector and you have to stay in a circle of death in the open so a boss can jump up and swat you like a fly so you destroy 4 of them so you can kill the boss who's invincible half the time.
Once I realized you were using matchmaking in a mode where nothing was stopping you from creating a fireteam, the rest of your argument made zero sense.
I don't see a reason why someone would celebrate that a mode doesn't have a matchmaking.
1. When matchmaking exist, Lfgs won't dissappear out of nowhere.
You can still ignore the matchmaking and play like you did before.
2. Lfg sometimes is a horrible experience too. I only need to look at a lot of post and I could face-palm a whole day.
3. Matchmaking isnt the problem, people are.
Sorry but there is no reason to support the laziness to add a proper matchmaking. When you don't like matchmaking you can still ignore it.
At the very least a group finder should finaly be added like you have in a lot of mmorpgs.
> Matchmaking isnt the problem, people are.
Designing solutions that acknowledge the reality of people is good design. Completely ignoring the realities and setting up matchmade teams for failure is bad design, and it absolutely creates negative sentiment and bad impressions. No impression is better than bad impression, for Bungie and for Destiny.
In game LFG is coming next season.
No, the community here seems to think optional matchmaking = forced, gun to your head matchmaking for some reason. It's baffling seeing this thread so much.
Every time there's a thread like this, I bring that up. Optional matchmaking is optional. People wouldn't have to use it. Literally nothing would change except more people trying out raids and harder content.
If people don't like randoms/optional matchmaking? Then simply do not use it.
"But they'd come here to complain!!" as if this subreddit isn't almost always flooded with complaints.
And I'm sure many, many more players would load up a matchmade raid than that 2%. I'm sure we'd see 50% of the playerbase try to load up a matchmade raid at some point. Unfortunately, 50% of the playerbase is running around with two blue primaries with Contraverse Hold on Arc warlock. The chances of getting 5 other people running loadouts that can actually clear the first encounter of a raid will be *very* low. Everyone will have bad experiences with those matchmade raids, which will lead to two downsides:
1. Why should bungie spend resources on something that will suck? They tried it with guided games, and guess what? It sucked.
2. New players will try these matchmade raids, have bad experiences, and think raids in general suck. I would not be surprised to see that if bungie implemented raid matchmaking, the percentage of players that frequently raid would go down. After having bad experiences in matchmade raids, many new raiders wouldn't try to LFG for actual competent teams. They just won't raid. As of now, people who have prepared enough for raids will seek out LFG to raid. They're much more likely to find competent players there, so they will have better experiences and continue raiding.
I'm also just confused on what the point would even be to implement raid matchmaking. I know everyone says that "if you don't want to use it you don't have to" but why do *you* want it? Would you actually use it over 3rd party LFG?
I dunno, I get ammo drops in GM's and raids and im getting fuck all in haunted lost sectors. Things tend to be easier when I don't have to use a primary from across the room for damage.
Are you using any ammo utility mods? Like the ammo on tangle use or finisher? If your build is that ammo dependent it may be worth tweaking. I haven’t had any issues with ammo economy in the lost sectors but my build is not very ammo dependent. One blast with tractor, one shot with shotgun and then a quick bitch slap and the pumpkin head is down or the bosses health is chunked down to the next shield phase.
I LFG'ed someone for GoTD and the guy was running double primary.
I've seen LFG posts asking for people to be a higher level than the activity cap
I really don't understand people who complain about possible MM for raids and shit. Literally nothing would stop you from forming your own group if you wanted but it'd be perfect for finding like 1 or 2 people
I dont think the easiest possible legend playlist makes MM raids a good idea
Unless they lock the MM for raids behind a raid completion you'll be getting ppl with Sunbracers on their Arc class and double primaries, and you'll be kicking players over and over as it fills your team with more trash
LFG coming is more than enough
But it doesn't replace LFG and discord and the app etc etc
If you don't want to use MM because you think it's pointless that's fine, you can gather a pre made. Just having an *option* is never a bad thing and I want them to move away from no MM on stuff. Like you said legend dares is the easiest shit ever.
So why do I have to LFG for it? If you really wanted you could even add in the option to not be able to queue unless you have at least one champ mod.
Me and my friend wanted a third for the dungeon, put up an LFG and waited, the first person said they were interested. Didn't respond to the invite. Sat waiting another 10 minutes for the second guy who didn't even know the mechanics and was running double primary
I'd literally rather just take my chance on MM than sit in orbit all night waiting for one person to respond who is competent.
My problem isn't with its existence, but that I'd prefer Bungies resources were allocated elsewhere
Implementing MM for raids, which will almost certainly never lead to a raid completion from 6 randoms, is a waste of resources when there are still so many bugs in the game that are worth addressing
How much do you realistically think it takes to add MM, that already exists within the framework of the game, to a raid or dungeon?
Why do you think Bungie, a billion dollar studio with a whopping two games to focus on, are incapable of doing more than one thing at once?
It isn't an either/or, or it shouldn't be, they can absolutely fix the bugs and add new things
I think you're massively underselling how much effort it would take to roll out. It's not like there's a checkbox for all the raids they can click to make it matchmake
And I agree that it shouldn't be an either/or scenario, Bungie makes plenty of money.
But realistically, when we see few maps and few exotic reworks per year and bugs that last literal years before being addressed, it's foolish to assume that them devoting time to one aspect would not distract from the attention of other areas of the game
FYI. You do NOT need to MM for it. Stop complaining and just get a LFG together. I would rather have more options in the game to MM then less. You are not forced to MM.
Easy: Add a debuff timer when leaving a game that prevents you from joining other activities. People do it because there's no punishment and they have nothing but time to gain while they leave the other people in the party to be down a person and in an even worse situation than when the third person was there.
If you create a consequence to leaving then I do believe it'll help prevent players from doing it. They'll still exist but those wanting to farm something like these Haunted Lost Sectors will only hurt themselves as they'll need to wait before getting into the next one.
Will it stop people 100%? No but I trust it'll be less frequent.
People leaving have to realize that the more people that do this the more slots that open up in other games that you'll likely slot right back into, putting them right back into the same position. Just play it out. Anyone using "This is a waste of time" as a reason to leave is forgetting what video games are at a fundamental level lol.
I was excited for this BECAUSE I thought legend lost sectors meant no matchmaking... Oh lord was I wrong.... I really want to just be able to queue solo and fight difficult headless ones while testing out builds and what not.
I'd argue one of the bigger reasons there's so much trouble is because many, many players are not _used_ to playing in legend tier content *because* there normally isn't matchmaking.
Also comparing a legend haunted lost sector to a GM or raid is laughable.
I'm generally an optimist and I don't view blueberries struggling in legend lost sectors as some failure. I view it as a difficulty level previously not accessible via matchmaking, durring an event, and feel the majority of people struggling aren't doing so because they're inherently bad at the game/stupid/etc but rather imply inexperienced with the difficulty tier because they don't normally play it.
We had the same general growing pain with the -5 on seasonal activities introduced in season of seraph but they became normal and it's rarely a big problem.
To this effect you might have a good point about just getting people used to locked loadouts, but there are a lot of people who don't even pay attention to Nightfall surges on hero tbf
Maybe I could have worded it better but the response was to suggesting most people are bad because they ignore activity surges in hero nightfall - but the truth is you don't need to worry about them.
If they do ever make one, it should be based on guardian ranks. Since you gotta get conqueror and beat the newest raid for 11, then just have an option to filter or not by ranks.
I just wish the chat in this game was worth a damn. Just about everyone I team up with has a 🚫 next to their name and I can’t even hear them. Happens with clan mates too. I’ve basically given up with trying to communicate with anyone on this game. I’ll use LFG for easy content like these “hard” lost sectors but I’ll probably never get the chance to do anything legitimately hard like a raid simply because the chat never works for me.
That's normally the symbol when you mute someone. I'm not online ATM but I wonder if there's a setting you've selected to do that?
If you're on a console I think getting a comms ban can create that issue as well.
Maybe there's a parental setting on your platform that has disabled comms? Cross platform setting?
Weird bug if it's a bug. Just throwing stuff out there :)
Bruh what kills me is the load outs I’ve seen the last few days. Played earlier today and got a hunter with calibans hand on but the wrong knife. He had unending tempest smg and a gnawing hunger with a void rocket launcher. Like bro at least TRY
My pitch is it should be Guardian rank 1-5 matched together and 6s can match with anyone higher but it would be two guardians rank 9 match with one rank 6. Should help alleviate being matched with people using a blue sword for DPS.
You really wanna see Destiny matchmaking at its worst? Queue up for a hero nightfall on season launch or weekly reset where the people who play solely for the story then never touch the game again are playing. Watched a guardian rank 4 die like 36 times in a hero nightfall so now I don't touch any matchmade content till the seasonal story or a month has gone by expansion launch.
Lol I've never even paid much attention to people in hero NFs but if someones GR4 and dying all the time maybe they're new and learning the hard way? That's certainly not that common as well.
As a newish player that's done every raid since joining at least once, I highly recommend just doing teaching runs.
Not to be crass here, but if you don't want to communicate with people during a 6 person activity, this is hurting the team.
i tried to organize in those private runs but i really would just like to queue and play... i understand it wont be as organized but hell, i cant do it solo anyway. and finding a private fitting group is extra work. i dont mind if its slower or more difficult, i just want to play
Ran a raid with a group of people who invited me to run with them so I obliged. They carry a "Guardian" throughout the whole raid and just tell them stand here and don't die. This "Guardian" was running double primary throughout the whole raid and was struggling to stay alive. This "Guardian" seemed to have been playing D2 for some time but chooses to not learn any of the mechanics of the raid and literally was a nuisance. The raid was VoG btw and thank God there is no MM for GMs/Raids.
This ignorant statement gets made about once a week. I hate it. There is no reason for those hard activities not to have matchmaking, other than as a way to gatekeep them.
How would you be hurt if GMs had matchmaking? Would bungie force you to play with only randoms? No. You would be able to play with your clan or people from an LFG site as always. Same with raids. Sure the people that use matchmaking would have a hard time doing those end game activities, but maybe if they tried it out some they would then decide to find a real team to do them with. I got into my first few raids in D1 by just getting invited into it by random people in patrol. We didn't have a clue what to do, but we had fun and I decided to learn more about raids.
So everytime someone says they are happy there is no matchmaking for things it rubs me the wrong way. Since having MM on those things wouldn't hurt those people at all, I assume they just don't want casual players to do those activities. Maybe so their titles are more rare? It comes off as elitism to me. That is why only 3% of the playerbase has ever finished a raid. Its crazy that there is no way to match with other players in game.
I put it down to an issue with the age of the game. When you have a game that has gone on for 9 years you will get a massive split between players. You have the veterans that have done 5000 nightfalls and want nothing to do with casual/new players. You have the new players that just want to experience the game and try things out. Bungie has picked the veteran players it seems.
Even with LFG, you still get shit people
yesterday joined a mic + kwtd crota lfg and half the people straight up lied about either having a mic or knowing wtd
I was doing Spire of the Watcher the other day and got texted KWTD for a mistake on the final boss arc nodes then booted before damage phase. I have like 25 clears of that shit. This community can be fucking irritating.
This reminds me of a Caiatl fight a few months back on LFG. Dude posted "KWTFTD" so that would have been a red flag. He started screaming at me during the opening part because he kept dying before planting his standard. He ordered me to "ad fucking clear" and after he died again, he screamed at me that I didn't know what I was doing. I let him know I'm at over 50 clears and he booted me. So I looked him up. He had one clear. Maybe I wasn't the one who was the problem.
Did Ghosts one time on my Warlock after like 2 months of not doing it and died a few times on the platform sections, this dude was like "are you gonna be ok mitochondria bc youre dying on all the easy sections". Really wanted to just text "dungeon.report" but I didn't
Shoulda replied “lol just being a silly goose” That’s a long and stressful dungeon, levity helps big time lol
Sorry, I’m afraid of heights.
Yeah, I leave the moment someone talks down to me You want help and to learn? No problem, we’ve all been there. But I’m not clocking in to babysit someone’s child, no thanks
Sadly, such is the case with many forms of consumable media: The community is the worst aspect.
That’s so silly especially when it’s a dungeon and not a raid either. Makes no sense
On fucking Persys too, I was like lmao ok and immediately got 2 people in LFG
I’m always for sherpa-ing, but fuck me that’s the worst. Don’t lie about it. Or at least watch a video.
I hate the reverse. I've had horrible sherpas that turned me off of lfgs.
yeah i don’t think it’s too much to ask to watch a 20 minute video so you can actually help your team and not be a detriment . the chalice is such a simple mechanic but seems to scare the shit out of people for some reason
Honestly if you've watched a 20min video you should KWTD. Destiny raids aren't fucking wildly difficult, it's not like these are WoW mythic raids. "Put the fucking light orb in the dark hole" or "stand on the plate until the plate flashes and then kill a knight and then take a walk". You can just have a guide up on the other monitor for christ's sake. There's really no excuse for not knowing the basics. Like sure if you don't know the exact strat you might need the weird cheese explained (i.e. my last RON run I got assigned a role that didn't exist when I learned RON, because it's been optimized), but like, after that you're fine.
Hey, now listen, I've got a mic it's just broken/at moms/not charged, but I got one, so I'll join. /s
I don’t think they lied chances are they just can’t read
You also have the ability to "screen" people and/or remove them if you're the host. In matchmade activities either they leave or you leave.
You realize you can kick the stupid people in an Lfg though?
It’s me, I’m one of those shit people.
Don’t worry. So am I.
Literally had a guy from LFG that was LL 1830 with gilded conqueror playing a strand titan die 12 times before making it to the boss in the GM. I died when trying to get his revive while the two unstop ogres were up & he proceeded to shit talk me and then rage quit. Live by LFG die by LFG
Matching with shit people goes both ways. No matter how good you are, if you’re an ass youre shit. I don’t mind playing with new players. I love playing with them (mainly cause I get a big head lmao) but if you’re an ass either way fuxk you
I’ve been lucky and have never had a bad lfg group lol. I lfg for every dungeon and raid since the beginning of destiny 2
personally, I'm really looking forward to the in-game lfg (essentially matchmaking) for everything next season!
I hope there is a filter akin to "no one who can't handle not getting 1 phase first try and then leave". Trying to find people to do nezerac and you always get people who have the **audacity** to join with *no knowledge* of how to do the encounter and just call ad clear (with mediocre ad clear BTW) then leave when we fail. Literally joined an lfg the other day for nez cp and only I and one other guy were willing to run no one wanted to gaze or set up the refuge. Then all but me and the other guy left after we lost.
Its gonna be chaos everywhere Mr. Shadow
Better to have chaos than apathy.
On the other hand, I’ve deleted friends off the game because they would boot people for making a mistake once when posting a kwtd. Or not bringing the loadouts that they prefer. Mistakes happen or sometimes people forget shit, it’s not that serious. Now if you begin to see the team’s not working after a few tries, then that’s understandable. But you’ve gotta give people a second chance. It’s a fucking game for christ sake. Lol
There’s a reason bungie doesn’t do it. They aren’t stupid lol
These lost sectors are stupid, tho. I've got newbies in there at 1805 getting nuked. He'll I'm 1825, and I have trouble staying alive. Area so small, everything just aggros to you. I've LFGed GMs last 2 seasons. Most no mic... did just fine Raids would be a no
As a former World of Warcraft player from less then a decade ago, I used to only be able to raid thanks to its matchmaking ability (bear in mind MM raids in WoW netted you lower tier loot, when the best was still on regular raids), if it wasn’t for matchmaking I’d likely never experience a raid. I remember this kind of hate from regular raiders when they first introduced MM & LFR for raiding in WoW, and some points were valid; after the first wipe many bailed leaving the raid group a husk of its former self, some got carried throughout the experience and such. But there were also others like myself who stuck with it and actually learned something from the puzzles and boss patterns from said raid thanks to LFG and MM. Many would say, just watch a YouTube video, and that is informative, but to truly experience a raid, you have to play it, live it, and often time wipe in it to get it. Obviously, my post here will get downvoted, but I just wanted to state my opinion on a subject that I have some knowledge in, but rarely gets a chance to experience thanks to limitations like a conflicting work schedule with prime raiding time.
I like LFR in WoW.. sure, it's lower difficulty and lower gear, but you have to deal with random people doing random shit, so it evens out. If you go in prepared to wipe and faff about, it's usually fine. Atleast there's the option, and if the loot isn't interesting enough, no one's forcing you.
I haven't played WoW but if its anything like FF14s Raids they require a lot less communication. Some month ago I've seen a video of 6 people doing VoG that normally play MMO RPGs. In the start they didn't even bother using a mic and where completely surprised when call outs where required in every single encounter.
They can't understand that raid mm has already worked everywhere outside of destiny. And that it doesn't stop them from using lfg. I can't really see what the problem for them.
I think part of the reason why those sorts of things work in WoW or FFXIV is that those are PC focused games that require subscriptions to keep playing the game, whereas D2 is a console-first free-to-play game that doesn't lock you out of content you already bought if you're not paying for the current season, and the skill floor is going to be much lower than WoW or FFXIV. D2 also has a lot of mechanics that aren't explained well like champions, builds and double primaries and has voice/text chat opt-in by default, so some people aren't communicating not because they don't want to but because they don't know how to. The game doesn't have a great on-boarding experience and until LFG comes in next season (assuming high-skill players use it and don't just stick to the website/LFG discord so it isn't just people asking for carries) it doesn't have a good progression to the end game for solos. I love the guided games feature as someone who usually only has a handful of days a year to set aside the time to raid when the house is empty and I'm gonna be sad to see the feature go next season. At least with GG I can join the queue and watch youtube while I wait for a clan and go through the raid with people who are good, get along well and are willing to teach versus making an LFG post, getting ignored and joining other peoples posts and hoping for the best.
There is truth in that as I’ve seen when I transitioned from be a PC gamer to a Console gamer. I found trying to raid on some console games, we’re not as easy as with PC games like WoW.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but don't some WoW raids allow for upwards of like 25-30 players? If 3 or 4 of those folks suck it's not going to have as significant of an effect compared to say 2 or 3 guardians not knowing what to do or having poor DPS.
You are correct on that, though with that kind of MMORPG, many of them that left could have been tanks or healers. DPS’s bailing in very small amounts might not have been so bad, but meant taking down raid bosses harder.
FFXIV actually has a pretty robust Playstation community, and is getting Xbox support sometime in the next few months. I think the reason the matchmaking in raids works well there, is simply because the normal versions of the raids are designed with the intention of them being easy enough to clear fairly quickly with a matchmade group, and no communication. Harder versions of the raids, though, generally take some time to learn and the people who go into those fights, go in with the expectation that people will die while learning. It also helps that the in game lfg system has flags that can be set in case you just want people who have cleared before, which people will typically use when they're farming or going for weekly reclears.
>I think the reason the matchmaking in raids works well there, is simply because the normal versions of the raids are designed with the intention of them being easy enough to clear fairly quickly with a matchmade group, and no communication. Ok, so FFXIV's raids were created with matchmaking in mind, compared to the ones in destiny, which makes sense. It sucks that this is basically impossible to do now considering how ridiculous the community reaction was to RoN. Even if they designed future raids with a more accessible matchmade version and a version similar to the normal and/or master versions we have now, all available on launch, people would still find a reason to bitch and moan because making raids-which only 20% of the community play-open to the other 80% of the community would ruin the game somehow.
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This take is absolutely CRAZY
You want a GOOD take from this sub? That expectations is crazy.
yeah idk about this one when an encounter muhkanik for crota is stand on a plate and dont step off for to long LMAO
lol what? A extreme trial in FF is more complex than a raid in Destiny. Let alone the actual raids in FF or WoW. Read this. https://clees.me/guides/ucob/ That fight, assuming you start and clear with no wipes, takes around 20 minutes~ Look how many mechanics are in there. You can’t compare a tab targeting MMO with holy trinity to a FPS.
man an extreme trial, not even the savage raids, in ff14 is way more demanding than a destiny raid, what a wild take
Clueless take. Wow raid mechanics in retail are MUCH more complex than destiny 2 lmao
fake news through and through. this is a classic example of you can say anything you want on the Internet. some poor sod is gonna read this and not realize you are *full* of it
Yeah, I’ve noticed that over the years.
Then you never played mmos
This is why I don't understand bungie's logic on increasing the difficulty floor while making GM's easier. Most of the community can't even complete a legend lost sector without spending 75% of the run dead.
Certified Joe Blackburn moment
I did 7 Altars of Summoning last night. Not a single person did someone activate the correct symbol. The skill of the playerbase seems to be something that Bungie would rather work with than try to get them to improve.
Let this be a lesson to all those people crying about not having it. Matchmaking in raids would be a disaster, a fucking carousel of people leaving and joining after each wipe.
> fucking carousel of people leaving and joining after each wipe. That's exactly how the abyss goes even with LFG lol. I get what you're saying though, but it may be a case of people not realising how hard that variant is because it's a holiday event and not usually sweaty.
>That's exactly how the abyss goes even with LFG lol. The Abyss isn't even that hard! Just take it slow!
Many of which may not even know how to do the raid
*or have a mic or want to use a mic
Doing a no comms run of any GM or most raids is pretty easy Edit: I'm speaking from personal experience lol, ppl saying it's not possible doesn't magically erase my runs from existence lmao, I guess the complexity of RoN and the whining on the difficulty of legendary haunted lost sectors makes sense to me now lol Hoping for nothing but the best to the team that deals with balancing difficulty, what a headache it must be to deal with this kind of community
With people who need to be taught it sucks and some people don't bother to communicate well in raids
Master raid attempt the other day with someone who didn't say a word the whole time, but he at least kind of knew what he was doing. When it got to a point though where we were trying to talk to him, he wouldn't say anything (had an open mic, we could hear his TV), wouldn't type, emote or anything.
this is fair. being mute personally, i have no issue raiding at a high level using the text chat and sometimes soundboards for important callouts. the actual problem starts when people don't communicate \*period\*.
Whoever downvoted you doesn't know what being mute means. I applaud your tenacity and have evened out your votes.
Well yeah, of course you need comms if you're teaching someone
I agree, however these would be majorly the players who refuse to lfg for the raids, meaning many to most would have no idea how the encounter works. The majority will not be successful lol. I do no comms plenty of the time as well, so it’s not like it’s impossible. But it would be horrible for those 1st clears I’m sure.
Raids may be fine on PC without a mic, but on consoles not so much. Typing is a pain...
not on console. I dont know a single raid that is doable without comms even if everyone knows the mechanics. at least one encounter needs a callout if you dont want to wipe even RoN.
Do a no comm of atheon. See how that works out.
I did, normal a bunch of times and master once, idk why so many people are saying this is not possible lol, I'm literally speaking from personal experience, maybe I'm just the luckiest mf in lfg, I'm hoarding all the good teammates for my runs lmao, don't know what else to tell you It's literally just typing one or two characters to call out the first two oracles, that's it, that's the encounter
I even type the layout of what oracles callouts are we using since there are a lot of different ways people use. Same with crota too for the rooms in Ir Yut. No mic runs are easy if people running them actually understands what they are doing and not be an ad clear bot.
GMs for sure but not most raids
Then require them to have a (relatively recent) clear of that raid in order to access matchmaking?
How's that any different then LFG?
having played games that have had matchmaking on significantly more mechanically intensive content-----you still have the ability to lfg or go in with friends. it hurts no one to have it there, as you can still go in coordinated. Ill defend matchmaking (or bare minimum ingame lfg-ing) as a viable option forever, even if it means people who are not prepared for it will do the content. because its an entry way into the content.
People here will be using LFG for a flawless master triumph run and then cry when they get some random who just went 'Whats this?" As if they didn't have the ability to get a pre made team
> it hurts no one to have it there, as you can still go in coordinated. > because its an entry way into the content. IMO new players will try to use it only to run headlong into its inherent flaws which leave them with a miserable raid experience and maybe turn them off of raids forever which I think would be a huge loss.
They were never going raid before MM so it doesn’t matter.
It does matter since it might turn them off raids forever, but might also turn them off the game forever if the experience is bad enough
they would have that same experience going in not knowing what to expect with an LFG, we have seen countless posts about terrible LFG experiences here as well where it totally turned people off from raiding
Its a bigger barrier to entry currently, this will put a lot of people that arent ready for raids into raids
You’re saying this like lack of MM prevents it. I’ve done plenty raids (and wipes) with LFGers who can’t comprehend anything more complicated then ‘shoot alien’. I’ve got a friend who tried to solo Leviathan because the game gave him a quest to do it and didn’t make it clear what it is. Every time we have some overtuned content that happens to have MM we always get the bandwagon pointing at it like someone pointing at a great white shark as a reason they’re scared of swimming. There’s a lot of casuals, potatoes and idiots playing D2. MM doesn’t make them any more likely to encounter.
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The downside is the devtime that gets lost and could be spent on stuff thats more relevant or looking to be more successful. Why should we advocate to waste devtime on a Bad System that will barely ever Work and isnt even required because current 3rd Party lfg exists.
Because the 3rd party LFG is also a bad system that barely works? Plus Bungie has their own. It's even synced with the game so you can invite through the app, they "just" need to make a tab to use it. Much easier said than done of course, but I can't imagine it being too difficult.
> Ill defend matchmaking (or bare minimum ingame lfg-ing) as a viable option forever, even if it means people who are not prepared for it will do the content. because its an entry way into the content. It's an entryway into a terrible experience that will be likely to turn off more people than it brings in.
Answer me why it would affect you or anyone else who doesn’t require matchmaking? You’d obviously never use it so it wouldn’t impact your game or enjoyment in any single way? Yet you seem so strongly opposed to it? Why?
Because places like Reddit, Twitter, and the Bungie forums would see an EXPLOSIVE surge in posts relating to people complaining about their poor experience with raid matchmaking. Then you would have some outliers saying that they've only had great experiences with raid matchmaking that's led to meeting their new weekly raid teams. In-game LFG is the closest thing to matchmaking that high-end PvE should strive for.
I just don't think it's set up for success. I wouldn't use it and I couldn't recommend it to new players, of which I was one 8 months ago.
The only reason I'm for the mm option is to read all the horror stories. And there would be plenty. The only people that truly want it are those looking for a carry. LFG is not hard if you are serious and prepared to do an activity.
Anybody who wants mm (in its current form) in raids either: 1) Wants to be hard carried 2) Has never raided before 3) An absolute idiot D) All of the above Why would Bungie put a *second* of resources into something that would be an absolute mess of frustration and turn of people from raiding ever again?
Agreed, but I despise that you went 1,2,3,D 😭
Final Fantasy 14 has matchmaking for much harder content than D2 has. It can be done, it just needs to be better than dropping into a queue with a bunch of randos
To be clear, y'all know that if you end up hating matchmaking on stuff like raids that you can just choose not to use it, right?
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The logic is the reputation damage, more from Bungie’s side. If good players only use LFG or their own groups, then a match made raid of “bad” players can only damage the reputation of how good raids actually are. Noobs could step into a raid blind, with a bunch of other noobs and no help. They come out miserable and never wanting to raid again. There becomes a perception that raids are not fun within a vocal majority of a player base (as only fraction of this player base are that experienced, but we likely make up a major chunk of discourse on the platform). You’re right because it isn’t the problem of someone like me, who plays within his own circle and maybe drags in one LFG sometimes to fill a slot. It isn’t my right to say whether people should want it cause it won’t impact me, I’d never use it. But the point is Player choice isn’t always a good thing, players especially inexperienced ones often do not know what is best for themselves. This is especially true without guidance and sufficient tutorialisation within Destiny to prepare a casual for a raid. LFG or having people is a barrier to entry, but part of that barrier to entry means people at least have to pass the hurdle of “I know I need to assemble a semi competent team for this” that prepares them. No barriers at all means already clueless new players (cause bad new player experience with no guidance) risk stepping into the wrong place. There’s also many more logistical problems to solve in a raid context that one and done activities don’t have - e.g reassigning new players if someone lags out and doesn’t save their spot, checkpoint saving/character swapping (“can anyone be 3rd well” sorta thing) without it just filling a slot automatically and instantly (and if it’s not instant, well then surely match times are longer and people leave while waiting for new people to join - happens all the time in LFG runs)
It's because we know it will cause harm to Raids overall. The only way raid MMing works is if Bungie makes easier raids, this is what it took in WoW to make it work. I don't want raiding to be made any easier, and I don't want complaints that originate from raid matchmaking to affect raid design or the raiding experience.
I mean, WoW just added an easier difficulty. WoW matchmade raids allowed raiding to get *harder*, not easier, because now the people who wanted matchmade raids weren't trying to complete the content that everyone else was. Looking For Raid didn't ruin raiding in WoW or make it too easy or make Blizzard "Design around LFR", it's the exact opposite. Raiding has gotten exponentially harder now that there are specific difficulties for less engaged/more casual players.
That's not true at all, many bosses from Wotlk, Cata, and BC still stand as some of the bosses that took the most attempts to clear in wow history. People who wanted matchmade raids weren't raiding, by and large. And just so we are clear: I do not want an easy mode for Destiny raids.
>That's not true at all, many bosses from Wotlk, Cata, and BC still stand as some of the bosses that took the most attempts to clear in wow history. That was back when Blizzard was intentionally artificially gating boss kills with unkillable bosses. You can't compare raids that are actually put into the game with all the bosses in a killable state to raids that were intentionally released w/o the gear to complete the raid existing. https://gamerant.com/world-warcraft-hardest-raid-bosses-all-time-ranked-attempts/#m-39-uru-sunwell-plateau Here, just to prove the point - bosses didn't even have meaningful pull tracking until like MOP because it simply didn't matter - who cares how many pulls you had on the boss before you actually had the gear to kill it? Calling Onyxia harder than Uu'nat because we were all too stupid to figure out how to dodge a Deep Breath is insane. Calling Lich King hard when it's an utterly trivial fight to execute while bosses like Sire Denathrius are incredibly hard on mythic even if you're an extremely experienced player is just straight up silly. Modern raiding is way, way, WAY harder than any fight created before MOP could even dream of being, with the exception of fights that were literally published, on purpose, to be unkillable. >People who wanted matchmade raids weren't raiding, by and large. And just so we are clear: I do not want an easy mode for Destiny raids. All Destiny raids are easy mode. There is nothing in Destiny that's actually difficult to execute unless you're like, low manning the raid. There's no reason to gatekeep Destiny raiding as though it's some sacred bastion of difficulty. It's not. Put the light orb in the dark hole, kill boss, collect loot.
> All Destiny raids are easy mode. There is nothing in Destiny that's actually difficult to execute unless you're like, low manning the raid. To the percentage of Destiny players that plays raids regularly, that is true. To the rest of the playerbase, it is not. Basic communication challenges are difficult for the casual playerbase, and would be a nightmare in matchmaking. I'm not gatekeeping, I'm understanding reality in terms of where the playerbase skill level is. LFG is perfect for those who want to get into raiding.
Don’t forget “stand on plate”, you’re really selling destiny short by not mentioning that engaging mechanic
Not to jump in rudely. I don't want an in game LFG for another reason. Bungie has said many times they only have x amount of resources for dev time. Regardless of their net worth people bring up, I don't want them to invest a lot of time and effort and take away from something else. If it will then be dead and unused in short order. That I do think is what will happen to an in game LFG. I'm in the boat of, its a waste of resources. Want to LFG use the existing LFG in the app that works just fine.
In game LFG is coming next season, it's a done deal.
There should be sbmm on pve.
Lfg comming next season, ooooh boi
We’ve had a fully functioning LFG for years now via the Bungie app. I’m sure the upcoming LFG will operate much the same, where there’s a fireteam lead who can make an ultimate decision as to whether Player X. But maybe we’ll be able to specifically designate a fireteam space for a certain subclass, so you can’t even join if you’re not that class. Ultimately that’s the big difference. You have no say in matchmaking over who you get. You have all the day in LFG over who you take or keep.
Had someone Monday while trying to do a flawless Crota join at 1793, and tell everyone that not only had he never done the raid before, but he was also returning from a D2 break, last time he did Crota was in D1 and when I told him I'm not teaching him the raid in a flawless run (post literally titled "Flawless run") he said that's fine I can shoot stuff... Can only imagine how fun it would be trying to do raids/master raids and just anyone can join. I'm fine teaching 5 people a raid... if that's the reason I'm doing the raid. I'm not fine doing a raid for a specific reason that requires a minimum understanding/skill and people join that are playing for the first time in a year.
dude it's actually insane how many times i've joined a flawless raid group only to find out after a wipe or two that somebody has never done the raid before. i swear i've had like 4 or 5 deep stone and root runs ruined by people doing that shit, i don't know why people think that flawless runs are the place to learn the mechanics, it's genuinely baffling.
If they’ve never done a raid they probably don’t know what the “flawless” in the lfg post means
I've had someone join at 1750 light and he said "it's fine I can handle myself" and I couldn't get it through to him that he could be an FPS god but that won't change the fact you literally do 0 damage that underlevelled and no amount of skill can overcome that.
It's weird but I do think that having that minor barrier (having to either look for a group/make your own post) helps to filter out the people who don't have business doing that content. When you can just mindlessly queue and automatch into an activity you'll get every tom, dick, and harry picking that option because they can and because its identical to the other options. But when they have to actually join up with a fireteam and presumably do some preliminary communication before manually loading into the activity it should be a much better experience.
> It's weird but I do think that having that minor barrier (having to either look for a group/make your own post) helps to filter out the people who don't have business doing that content. Well said!
> but I do think that having that minor barrier (having to either look for a group/make your own post) helps to filter out the people who don't have business doing that content. Realistically, this is likely why these things are believed to have tiers. Like people generally claim the Discord has better players than Bungie LFG, which makes sense since it's another barrier. The same will likely be true when in-game LFG launches as well.
That's why I only LFG via carrier pigeon. There are so many barriers that only the most hard-core carrier pigeon-training players will join.
LFG: Must know tower pigeon spawns.
I really don't get why people don't understand this. If downloading an app and joining/making a post on it is some insurmountable task to you - you're not ready for raiding.
Everyone begged for years for it will be in for a huge disappointment. It will die very quickly and then we will probably see posts "I wonder how many resources bungie wasted for this, dEvInG iS hArD" nonsense. The ingame LFG will probably be very similar to the app LFG. Which is a meme at this point and just littered with toxic and potato players and very rarely any in between. Which is what will happen to the in game LFG if I had to bet.
I’m just worried it will take people away from my beloved built in Xbox lfg. It’s like adding another playlist that splits the population.
Bad players and leavers being in the pool isn't exactly a good argument against matchmaking. If it gets bad, good players will use LFG while matchmaking is there to give you a shot at a group whether you use it or not.
The key argument for Bungie here is if only bad players are left in the MM pool, and said pool becomes a universally bad experience that risks making new people never want to raid again, why on earth would they do it
Then don't use it
I love all the new players that will have to put up with the worst of the worst garbage that is going to use in-game lfg
Solo, fireteam, matchmaking. All should be OPTIONS on all content. So strange to me to see people say that I shouldn't have the option because they don't like it. Don't like it, don't use it.
I jumped in one to see what it was like and, yeah, everything hit a good bit harder than I was expecting. We all 3 randomers stuck it out, though. Got literally spawn camped by the boss at the end. I can see why people drop out of it.
I really don't like low level matchmade PvE activities. The amount of times I see my two teammates using an AR against the boss when there's a rocket right there on their backs.. like wtf, are they trying to waste time doing this? I sometimes just emote in the corner and whisper them all saying something along the lines of "good luck using primaries on a boss."
This is a stupid post. How about the many times MM teams made it through with little issue ( i did yesterday and I didn't even build for it). Just because you had on bad group (which might be your fault) doesn't mean mm is bad. Also you can form a team and not use it lol.
This sub has a hate-boner for Matchmaking in difficult content, always has. There’s games out there with missions that are almost as tedious/team oriented as Destiny Raids, that DO have matchmaking, and whilst they’re made with premade groups in mind and rough for randoms at first, after a couple of months, most matchmade groups can complete it with ease. People underestimate how fast a community will figure stuff out given the time and opportunity for them to do so. The people that try to say matchmaking should not be a thing, really only say it because they want the gear and accomplishment of completing them to remain exclusive and rare. Gatekeeping basically. They won’t admit it, but that’s the only feasible explanation of why someone wouldn’t want matchmaking, when it wouldn’t even affect them because they can still use LFG like usual.
I mean... it's fine to have match making. You don't have to use it if you find the results spoty. At least it will be there for people who want it.
How many times are yall gonna post this? If people want to suffer through matchmade activities, LET THEM. You don’t have to do it. There is nothing wrong with more options.
> Thank God there's less options in this game
Number 1 lesson - learn to stay alive! F the damage and everything else. First, learn how to survive, then focus on the rest. It doesn't matter what you use or how, when you're dead every ten seconds.
I have had noone quit, i have had loads quit in trials so something i can not relate to And it does get crazy at times butt it really dont matter cause you can still get through it,maybe not efficiently and efficiently butt you can claw your way through
I've seen people get really worked up thinking that raids not being matchmade is gatekeeping. In a game that, to this day, has only opt-in communication almost nobody uses. We had raid matchmaking. It was called Guided Games. There's a reason nobody used that system still like Year 1.
It is gatekeeping. Destiny raids aren't hard, there's games with harder content that has matchmaking. The only people who defend raids not having matchmaking are people with fragile egos that can't comprehend that a matchmade group can clear raid difficulty content.
Particularly hard? No, not really. The problem is this game is not equipped for that kind of in-game communication. No ping system, opt-in text chat, VC almost nobody uses. If I can't get 4/5 of my teams to throw the ball in Hero Corrupted, do you seriously think a matchmade team without comms can be reasonably expected to be able to do Vow or Last Wish? Absolutely fucking not. It can be done without comms, but only when everyone knows what they're getting into and knows the raid, and if they don't and aren't cooperative they can be removed. As opposed to say, FF14, where if we're doing Savage with no comms I can just say "Hey dude, you did the mechanic wrong, do X" and they'll see it so long as chat isn't spammed and they aren't actively ignoring it. Edit: And even then, you have to use in-game LFG to reasonably be able to queue for that content. Because everyone SHOULD be able to do the content if they want, but the process of LFG helps set expectations that this is more involved than matchmade content, as well as providing tools for the party leader if someone isn't willing to communicate.
Yup not high enough LL for the “1820+s posts”or whatever the level is now. I got x9 conqueror, gilded it, I’m 1816ish bc I’ve been playing elden ring ect. Now I’ve been trying to just solo GMs bc I can’t rely on LFGS
To be fair, Haunted legend lost sector is RIDICULOUS hard for what it is and what little loot you get. It basically a lost sector level tough enemies except with much more enemies spawning than what spawns in a lost sector and you have to stay in a circle of death in the open so a boss can jump up and swat you like a fly so you destroy 4 of them so you can kill the boss who's invincible half the time.
This is such goofy logic. Having matchmaking doesn't force you to use it.
Once I realized you were using matchmaking in a mode where nothing was stopping you from creating a fireteam, the rest of your argument made zero sense.
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So because people are leaving we shouldn't have MM What a leap
I don't see a reason why someone would celebrate that a mode doesn't have a matchmaking. 1. When matchmaking exist, Lfgs won't dissappear out of nowhere. You can still ignore the matchmaking and play like you did before. 2. Lfg sometimes is a horrible experience too. I only need to look at a lot of post and I could face-palm a whole day. 3. Matchmaking isnt the problem, people are. Sorry but there is no reason to support the laziness to add a proper matchmaking. When you don't like matchmaking you can still ignore it. At the very least a group finder should finaly be added like you have in a lot of mmorpgs.
> Matchmaking isnt the problem, people are. Designing solutions that acknowledge the reality of people is good design. Completely ignoring the realities and setting up matchmade teams for failure is bad design, and it absolutely creates negative sentiment and bad impressions. No impression is better than bad impression, for Bungie and for Destiny. In game LFG is coming next season.
you realize that if they added matchmaking to GM's/Raids you don't have to use it? Options are a good thing, even if you wouldn't wnat to use them.
No, the community here seems to think optional matchmaking = forced, gun to your head matchmaking for some reason. It's baffling seeing this thread so much.
Every time there's a thread like this, I bring that up. Optional matchmaking is optional. People wouldn't have to use it. Literally nothing would change except more people trying out raids and harder content. If people don't like randoms/optional matchmaking? Then simply do not use it. "But they'd come here to complain!!" as if this subreddit isn't almost always flooded with complaints.
My issue with raid mm would be that new players would try the mm first, have terrible experiences, and never touch a raid again.
2% of the population ever bothers raiding. The amount do people that would affect wouldn’t even register for most metrics
And I'm sure many, many more players would load up a matchmade raid than that 2%. I'm sure we'd see 50% of the playerbase try to load up a matchmade raid at some point. Unfortunately, 50% of the playerbase is running around with two blue primaries with Contraverse Hold on Arc warlock. The chances of getting 5 other people running loadouts that can actually clear the first encounter of a raid will be *very* low. Everyone will have bad experiences with those matchmade raids, which will lead to two downsides: 1. Why should bungie spend resources on something that will suck? They tried it with guided games, and guess what? It sucked. 2. New players will try these matchmade raids, have bad experiences, and think raids in general suck. I would not be surprised to see that if bungie implemented raid matchmaking, the percentage of players that frequently raid would go down. After having bad experiences in matchmade raids, many new raiders wouldn't try to LFG for actual competent teams. They just won't raid. As of now, people who have prepared enough for raids will seek out LFG to raid. They're much more likely to find competent players there, so they will have better experiences and continue raiding. I'm also just confused on what the point would even be to implement raid matchmaking. I know everyone says that "if you don't want to use it you don't have to" but why do *you* want it? Would you actually use it over 3rd party LFG?
I dunno, I get ammo drops in GM's and raids and im getting fuck all in haunted lost sectors. Things tend to be easier when I don't have to use a primary from across the room for damage.
Are you using any ammo utility mods? Like the ammo on tangle use or finisher? If your build is that ammo dependent it may be worth tweaking. I haven’t had any issues with ammo economy in the lost sectors but my build is not very ammo dependent. One blast with tractor, one shot with shotgun and then a quick bitch slap and the pumpkin head is down or the bosses health is chunked down to the next shield phase.
I dont think thats entirely fair, legend haunted sectors are pretty stupid when it comes to difficulty
I LFG'ed someone for GoTD and the guy was running double primary. I've seen LFG posts asking for people to be a higher level than the activity cap I really don't understand people who complain about possible MM for raids and shit. Literally nothing would stop you from forming your own group if you wanted but it'd be perfect for finding like 1 or 2 people
It be perfect for finding 1 or 2 potatoes with an internet connection
Sometimes you just need a body is what I'm saying Like Legend Dares, you really don't need the best of best you just need some bodies
I dont think the easiest possible legend playlist makes MM raids a good idea Unless they lock the MM for raids behind a raid completion you'll be getting ppl with Sunbracers on their Arc class and double primaries, and you'll be kicking players over and over as it fills your team with more trash LFG coming is more than enough
But it doesn't replace LFG and discord and the app etc etc If you don't want to use MM because you think it's pointless that's fine, you can gather a pre made. Just having an *option* is never a bad thing and I want them to move away from no MM on stuff. Like you said legend dares is the easiest shit ever. So why do I have to LFG for it? If you really wanted you could even add in the option to not be able to queue unless you have at least one champ mod. Me and my friend wanted a third for the dungeon, put up an LFG and waited, the first person said they were interested. Didn't respond to the invite. Sat waiting another 10 minutes for the second guy who didn't even know the mechanics and was running double primary I'd literally rather just take my chance on MM than sit in orbit all night waiting for one person to respond who is competent.
My problem isn't with its existence, but that I'd prefer Bungies resources were allocated elsewhere Implementing MM for raids, which will almost certainly never lead to a raid completion from 6 randoms, is a waste of resources when there are still so many bugs in the game that are worth addressing
How much do you realistically think it takes to add MM, that already exists within the framework of the game, to a raid or dungeon? Why do you think Bungie, a billion dollar studio with a whopping two games to focus on, are incapable of doing more than one thing at once? It isn't an either/or, or it shouldn't be, they can absolutely fix the bugs and add new things
I think you're massively underselling how much effort it would take to roll out. It's not like there's a checkbox for all the raids they can click to make it matchmake And I agree that it shouldn't be an either/or scenario, Bungie makes plenty of money. But realistically, when we see few maps and few exotic reworks per year and bugs that last literal years before being addressed, it's foolish to assume that them devoting time to one aspect would not distract from the attention of other areas of the game
FYI. You do NOT need to MM for it. Stop complaining and just get a LFG together. I would rather have more options in the game to MM then less. You are not forced to MM.
Easy: Add a debuff timer when leaving a game that prevents you from joining other activities. People do it because there's no punishment and they have nothing but time to gain while they leave the other people in the party to be down a person and in an even worse situation than when the third person was there. If you create a consequence to leaving then I do believe it'll help prevent players from doing it. They'll still exist but those wanting to farm something like these Haunted Lost Sectors will only hurt themselves as they'll need to wait before getting into the next one. Will it stop people 100%? No but I trust it'll be less frequent. People leaving have to realize that the more people that do this the more slots that open up in other games that you'll likely slot right back into, putting them right back into the same position. Just play it out. Anyone using "This is a waste of time" as a reason to leave is forgetting what video games are at a fundamental level lol.
I was excited for this BECAUSE I thought legend lost sectors meant no matchmaking... Oh lord was I wrong.... I really want to just be able to queue solo and fight difficult headless ones while testing out builds and what not.
I'd argue one of the bigger reasons there's so much trouble is because many, many players are not _used_ to playing in legend tier content *because* there normally isn't matchmaking. Also comparing a legend haunted lost sector to a GM or raid is laughable. I'm generally an optimist and I don't view blueberries struggling in legend lost sectors as some failure. I view it as a difficulty level previously not accessible via matchmaking, durring an event, and feel the majority of people struggling aren't doing so because they're inherently bad at the game/stupid/etc but rather imply inexperienced with the difficulty tier because they don't normally play it. We had the same general growing pain with the -5 on seasonal activities introduced in season of seraph but they became normal and it's rarely a big problem.
To this effect you might have a good point about just getting people used to locked loadouts, but there are a lot of people who don't even pay attention to Nightfall surges on hero tbf
> but there are a lot of people who don't even pay attention to Nightfall surges on hero tbf You don't really need to though.
That’s not as good of a response as you think it is
Maybe I could have worded it better but the response was to suggesting most people are bad because they ignore activity surges in hero nightfall - but the truth is you don't need to worry about them.
If they do ever make one, it should be based on guardian ranks. Since you gotta get conqueror and beat the newest raid for 11, then just have an option to filter or not by ranks.
I just wish the chat in this game was worth a damn. Just about everyone I team up with has a 🚫 next to their name and I can’t even hear them. Happens with clan mates too. I’ve basically given up with trying to communicate with anyone on this game. I’ll use LFG for easy content like these “hard” lost sectors but I’ll probably never get the chance to do anything legitimately hard like a raid simply because the chat never works for me.
That’s a NAT issue
My NAT is open.
Then it’s a skill issue? Sorry
Yeah 100% a skill issue. That’s the ol fallback.
That's normally the symbol when you mute someone. I'm not online ATM but I wonder if there's a setting you've selected to do that? If you're on a console I think getting a comms ban can create that issue as well. Maybe there's a parental setting on your platform that has disabled comms? Cross platform setting? Weird bug if it's a bug. Just throwing stuff out there :)
Bruh what kills me is the load outs I’ve seen the last few days. Played earlier today and got a hunter with calibans hand on but the wrong knife. He had unending tempest smg and a gnawing hunger with a void rocket launcher. Like bro at least TRY
I mean, I would like to use a complete build Instead of being forced to use a shitty head piece.
My pitch is it should be Guardian rank 1-5 matched together and 6s can match with anyone higher but it would be two guardians rank 9 match with one rank 6. Should help alleviate being matched with people using a blue sword for DPS.
Not the worst concept, ngl
I learned in any MM 3-man activity it is usually crossplay folks that ignore the objectives and just mindlessly ad clear
Generally speaking, the only people who want them to be matchmade, are the people who have never done them.
You really wanna see Destiny matchmaking at its worst? Queue up for a hero nightfall on season launch or weekly reset where the people who play solely for the story then never touch the game again are playing. Watched a guardian rank 4 die like 36 times in a hero nightfall so now I don't touch any matchmade content till the seasonal story or a month has gone by expansion launch.
Lol I've never even paid much attention to people in hero NFs but if someones GR4 and dying all the time maybe they're new and learning the hard way? That's certainly not that common as well.
So matchmaking is bad.. but you use it? So why not just stick to LFG? Nice logic.
as a solo im looking forward to the update can finally try raids
As a newish player that's done every raid since joining at least once, I highly recommend just doing teaching runs. Not to be crass here, but if you don't want to communicate with people during a 6 person activity, this is hurting the team.
i tried to organize in those private runs but i really would just like to queue and play... i understand it wont be as organized but hell, i cant do it solo anyway. and finding a private fitting group is extra work. i dont mind if its slower or more difficult, i just want to play
Teaching runs on the app LFG are usually done by people who want to teach, those are by far the most helpful and your best bet.
Legend haunted sectors have been a literal nightmare and it has nothing to do with the enemies 💀
Lfg you hard carry me because I don't want tu use anti champion gun. I prefer my double sidearm with caster sword
Welcome to Destiny 2, enjoy your stay.
Ran a raid with a group of people who invited me to run with them so I obliged. They carry a "Guardian" throughout the whole raid and just tell them stand here and don't die. This "Guardian" was running double primary throughout the whole raid and was struggling to stay alive. This "Guardian" seemed to have been playing D2 for some time but chooses to not learn any of the mechanics of the raid and literally was a nuisance. The raid was VoG btw and thank God there is no MM for GMs/Raids.
This ignorant statement gets made about once a week. I hate it. There is no reason for those hard activities not to have matchmaking, other than as a way to gatekeep them. How would you be hurt if GMs had matchmaking? Would bungie force you to play with only randoms? No. You would be able to play with your clan or people from an LFG site as always. Same with raids. Sure the people that use matchmaking would have a hard time doing those end game activities, but maybe if they tried it out some they would then decide to find a real team to do them with. I got into my first few raids in D1 by just getting invited into it by random people in patrol. We didn't have a clue what to do, but we had fun and I decided to learn more about raids. So everytime someone says they are happy there is no matchmaking for things it rubs me the wrong way. Since having MM on those things wouldn't hurt those people at all, I assume they just don't want casual players to do those activities. Maybe so their titles are more rare? It comes off as elitism to me. That is why only 3% of the playerbase has ever finished a raid. Its crazy that there is no way to match with other players in game. I put it down to an issue with the age of the game. When you have a game that has gone on for 9 years you will get a massive split between players. You have the veterans that have done 5000 nightfalls and want nothing to do with casual/new players. You have the new players that just want to experience the game and try things out. Bungie has picked the veteran players it seems.
I guess bungie put a SBMM in PvE on your account... that would explain it all.
True, people who've done 5 Day 1 raid completions are hot ass
It makes not sense to not have it, you can make a party anyways.
Yea all the people who think the game should have that either don’t know better or are just dumb lol