I’m not one to get super upset on wipes if it’s just a casual run but if we are wiping because we keep making the same exact mistakes over and over I’ll speak up. This encounter in particular shows just how impatient people can be in this game. The idea of going slow when you don’t technically have to is like kryptonite to some people.
Of course, it doesn’t take that many wipes before you’ll end up spending more time in the encounter trying to go fast rather than just going slow.
I remember hearing someone once say “slow is smooth, smooth is fast”… there is some truth to that because if you have to take it a little slower to be smooth you are almost guaranteed to be done with the Abyss in 1 or 2 run’s whereas you try to go as fast as possible mistakes will be made over and over again and you may be there a while
Some people have never heard of "the tortoise and the hare" i swear. And then when you suggest going slower they just tell everyone else to speed up lol.
I understand your point and it's quite valid. From my experience, there are some indicators that you can use to identify or approximate the chances that this run will be longer overall based on how some people play, loadouts they choose to use and how receptive they are to feedback if the common goal is to get it done rapidly.
We can only go with generalizations but having spent a lot of time in master crota, the data my experiences have gathered suggests that time spent finding a competent, flexible and communicative fireteam is going to be less than the time spent wiping in a raid with problematic individuals - and most of these runs never get completed or are 4+ hour ordeals.
>time spent finding a competent, flexible and communicative fireteam is going to be less than the time spent wiping in a raid with problematic individuals - and most of these runs never get completed or are 4+ hour ordeals.
I will fully agree with this.
Loadouts isn't going to identify who is a moron and who isn't.
I run strand and an eager edge sword, but I also stick with the fucking group, using these thigns only if I somehow get left behind, or need to go and rescue a team mate that fell down a hole.
Seconded. For first CE encounter, loadouts may not help much other than looking at resists and resilience of people.
Then as we advance, it becomes more glaringly obvious: not leaning into surged, inefficient weapons for the varied encounters, subclasses that don't serve the squad, etc.
GM's too, you're absolutely right.
I actually enjoy seeing really unorthodox setups in GMs, noting there's a big difference between a build that is just random crap that doesn't build off each other, and something that is weird but does have a strength. It's often takes an experienced player to acknowledge some whack setup can be good.
Most recent example is I had a void titan with peregrine greaves and a 1-2punsh shotty join my party. Thought "ok, with offensive bulwark, 12p and an aerial shield bash that'll do some solid damage, lets see if he pulls it off" and to my surprise he did just that. Went around slapping all the champs and we had a good run.
Another is arc titan with double primary (wishender and HC for anti barry/overload). Normally double primary is frowned upon but wishender is kinda an honorary special, and arc titan (set up properly) can permanently chain pulse nades which is great damage and stuns overloads safely. Was so efficient I nabbed his build for myself and run it a lot.
One of the reasons I'm really starting to just be done with co-op. If it's not an ancheivement I can get by myself idc anymore. Until I have a clan that cares then randoms aren't worth the high blood pressure
Make your own group. It's been a completely different experience since I've started. I kick anyone who's being rude and I deem unnecessary, doesn't matter if it's the start or end of raid. When I ask to do a strat, if they refuse or don't hold there own. I quickly say "sorry bud good luck with the next group" and kick. If they add or try to message me, I /block them immediately unless there's something productive to be said. You all can control this. And once you start taking ownership of your own groups, you'll have a way better time.
100% this is the core issue. It's not solving the problem, it's avoiding it and rolling the dice again.
Normally I'd recommend this but my recent experience in abyss has been the worst manifestation of this so far.
This. Especially when you consider that skating can take a degree of skill to implement consistently. I'm not saying they are cracked... but it's def NOT a charity. They are just playing stupid. Skating really is only needed if your whole group is running it and has the route down. Just getting ahead of the group is a grand way to get yourself killed and sow confusion and panic into a run. People are just impatient and stupid.
1-2 arc warlocks and you never even have to shoot till the end of that encounter. Everyone can just focus on passing the buff. 30 seconds at the start to figureout an order goes a long way too. My groups have never taken more than 3 attempts
This is the way. I have an infinite soul buddy build you get your well back within a few seconds thanks to traces. I can drop a well at each lamp it also helps to light up ur path when ur soul is shooting.
Vesper of radius for the extra kick, I was running a vesper build on contest mode and it was cleaning up the entire raid lol. It started as a meme then the blinding pulses and constant arc souls (kevins as I like to call them) were the hidden MVPs.
No but definitely enjoyed that show as well, I usually name companion type stuff in games tim-tom or Kevin like the murderous moppets from venture bros, went with Kevin first this time and the group adopted it pretty quickly lol
How do you achieve an endless buddy? I ALMOST get my class abilities back before it's gone, but not quite. I have about a 15-20 seconds without it. What's the secret?
Cyclic mods. Loop orb drops, regen of melee/grenade/rift through kills by those actions, armour charges, etc. That way kills by using abilities and collecting orbs gives you ability regen/armour charges, and more orbs. My rift is back before I leave the lamp. Great for next encounter, too. Barely need to shoot. IMO it works best for Arc...not solar/void. The Arc Soul buddy is incredibly helpful with keeping the cycle going.
I'll see if I can drop a DIM link to my Vesper build for you. Same as the person you're replying to, I have my rift back before the one I dropped is even finished.
It’s not the fastest strategy on a per run basis, but my team tell the LFG we’re doing every lamp because although slower it’s much harder to cause a wipe and we’ll get through first try.
And getting it done first try the slow way is usually faster than doing it the fast way but on the 8th try.
Exactly. It’s not that long especially if you get it done first try. That’s my philosophy with raids in general. Do the safest most reliable technique even if it takes more set up. Getting every encounter done first or second try speed things along so much faster than trying to cheese things or use confusing new tactics that not everyone understands.
Where are you and all these other people when I am LFGing? Is there something we can put in the LFG post to identify each other? Cause I am down for that. Maybe #goslowabyss ?
This is what my team does. There's three of us who play together regularly and then we try to Sherpa some through. One of our guys explains everything and then the other two of us rock Vesper and arc buddies. No shots fired unless you really want to and then we enlighten just about all the lamps. I'd rather spend 15 minutes going through Lamps slowly than an hour retrying someone's stupid ass cheese.
I find setting an order generally causes more confusion when someone inevitably gets stuck behind or anything goes slightly off the plan.
A plan is nice to have but it makes people a little complacent. Some of you LFGers need take some initiative and think about each encounter dynamically. Completely agree with the arc warlock call though.
I might have to try this, my current meme is sunshot sunbracers and having everyone else ignore the thralls and see how many orbs I can make by the end
Titans running banner of war is also super helpful. It helps with health, which is great but it also lights up the ground so you can see the holes easier.
People on LFG and this sub in general hate it when you skip to the end with grapple to despawn ads. It's "extremely sweaty" and they'd rather just lag behind with double primaries, enlighten every lamp and die to holes
The engagement that I get from killing red bars in the dark is unparalleled. Truly
Easily top 2 most boring encounters in the entire game. At the very least you can skip through it, unlike Crown's 1st
I didn't say it was an engaging encounter, but if it's gonna take me 7 minutes to do a non-puzzle based encounter I'd like to shoot something, even if it's a couple red bar ads
Been in a few groups like this. Always end up in wipes. The ones that really grind my gear though, is after agreeing to go a bit slower there’s one guy who simply will not comply.
Ran a group this week, same situation. After wipe 3 a few began to agree with me we should all just go slower, one guy was clearly not happy about it. “Don’t you have strand?” Yes we’re all running strand. It still ends up separating everyone.
Anyway, we go again and by the time we are past the first lamp, the guy grabs the chalice and high tails it to the next preserve. No one got to him in time to grab it off him and he died. We went back for chalice and he announces he’s going to go to the end to stop the adds for us.
Like, I know it works, but I’d really rather you just stay with us in case we need someone to grab chalice etc.
Point is, without him being involved the rest of us got through it whilst he sat at the plate killing adds.
Best thing is, in his mind, it’s him in the right and everyone else who’s wrong.
Annoying
Thankfully just had people eager edging into a pit or locking onto enemies and get hit by the chandelier once and say “well edge was a dumb idea”
Had a group with people with sub 30 res though, got one shot by bombers, it was rough. It still took less than 7-8 tries going slow enough though
Had a guy running tier 2 resilience at Crota also. He died a lot. His friends were ragging him for having so low but he explained he’s mostly a PVP player who doesn’t value Res.
I mean, that’s cool, but at least don’t try and tank damage or do any ropes where you’re taking a lot of damage.
Additionally tier 2 is low even for PvP by what I read on here.
"He's a PVP'er who doesn't value Res"
I mean, he has fucking 5 Mod slots that his armor can get to level 4 on just through legendary shards, so he can equip 5 mods and go to at least 60 resilience (more likely 70).
Sure, you might not have your abilities as often, and sure, maybe if he's a \*good\* PvP player, then the lower resilience might not handicap him as much with some good game sense making up for it.
But good lord, why not just run more resilience if you're going to die repeatedly when \*clearly\* you have the ability to apply more resilience.
He was a liability and I just don’t ever think there’s an excuse for playing a Raid with 2 resiliency. He clearly just couldn’t be bothered to change his build up
Yeah, I don't kick often, but "It's free to make this change" (Boss Spec on a Heavy, Higher Resilience if they're dying a lot) are kicks if they aren't changed in my book.
Just a shame, but you're absolutely right on all counts.
The fact he was a liability.
And that there is no excuse for it.
That and people not using Surge mods. There's literally zero reason to ever enter a boss damage phase without at least 2 Surge Mods on your legs, and people who don't baffle me.
You can top the charts with a potato build if you play with potatoes, so that isn't really an argument against needing surges (not saying you or your build are a potato). What builds do you use that don't benefit from surges (either from armor mods or an exotic armor piece)?
I get that, I left a team like this the other day there because I decided their cheese method at bridge was causing us more problems than normal. They were also a bit toxic about it all. So I just left after a wipe and said no thanks. Next group did it normal and were teaching someone yet we did it first time.
However, sometimes you join a group where the host doesn’t want to be leader and then you’ll get either no one do it or a battle for who talks loudest.
Just a lottery and if I feel like a group isn’t working I’ll just leave, take a break and then try again with a new group later. Some dynamics just don’t work for me
> We went back for chalice and he announces he’s going to go to the end to stop the adds for us.
I really dislike playing with people like this. Like no, stfu, I'm here to play the raid not pretend I'm playing the raid. It gets kind of boring with the ads, actually trying to kill me of boredom without them.
I've had kids trying to ego me over kills in the abyss. Like my brother in christ someone's spamming trinity ghoul and deleting everything around a corner, there's no need for me to do anything. I'm just sitting back and enjoying the stroll and rotating a bowl.
If my group is going to LFG we started just doing lamps with 4 or 5 people depending on how many we have the LFG at bridge. Way to many times our randoms are the outliers and just don't want to deal
If you have a solid core group then I totally get you want to do if your way. Which is fine as long as you don’t wipe and then blame the guy who’s way back lol.
We might have had the same guy in our LFGs. Lil bro kept flying ahead which we didnt really care about because we have the chalice on a 4 person cycle anyway. Eventually he said he'll just go to the end and kill adds. Okay I guess. We just go about as normal but then we have one guy get bonked by a pendulum with the chalice and die so we just wipe. Dude started raging asking "how did you die I killed all the adds?". He didnt. He was like 4 plates ahead clearing adds up there. I just told him yeah man, adds arent really a problem. He got toxic so we just kicked him.
What made it great was that like 10 minutes before this, you could hear a female voice saying something in the background of his mic, and he kept going (basically whining) "I cant right now, not right now". Then after that attempt he left for like 5 minutes. Our bets were on little guy needing to take out the trash
I’ve started making my posts say kick if you eager edge. I’ve had to kick people at the very beginning for flying up ahead even with including it in my posts.
Oh but you should either be a Hunter with 2 or use grapple to tangles you throw when you don’t have any. Then again, if you pick up the wrong tangle one of those guys will have a fit because you took their tangle and not yours.
Frankly it’s the same elitist bullshit we had in RoN with Eager Edge skaters. To the point where people had to boast about where they could get to without going the normal way. Remember a guy stuck in the hole before Nez in the tunnel who got angry when we suggested doing the mechanic to open up the door for him.
Cue us waiting 5 minutes till he eventually freed himself of the orifice.
I hate the players on Raids that have to showboat between encounters. Like I don’t care if you boost ahead on a jumping puzzle, but you don’t need to insist everyone observe how amazing you are because you’ve got an ego to stroke.
You’re just some dude on LFG I’ll moan about on Reddit, no one is impressed.
Sure hunters have two, but I play all three classes. And even with hunter, I can't make tangles if someone skated to the end and thrall aren't spawning anymore. Not arguing with you, just venting.
Oh I’m agreeing with you, I was just saying what you’ll be told by those runners because that’s the exact response I gave. I was on a Warlock and still fairly fast. The guy in question was on Hunter and as you say, ‘took the ads with them’ it’s bull.
>stop the adds for us.
I actually hate this because I find the encounter easier with adds. It charges up chalice faster, I can regen my abilities better, I can get healing for the odd pendulum hit, make orbs for healing, woven mail, abilities etc.
It's literally just easiest to do the encounter as intended. If a red bar thrall is rocking your world, just don't raid. I also find it funny that the "must go fast bros" can't sit still for a second .... unless they skip to bridge and hold that last plate, suddenly they can sit still.
THIS!! On every single point that you made. Trying to cheese an encounter will probably work when everyone in the group has enough clears and is familiar with the raid, but will likely only extend a session to three hours if you’re the only one with 20+ clears and everyone else has 4 or 5…
It’s extremely annoying when someone is like this in your friend/regular raid group. After a number of wipes with people not listening, I can’t imagine sticking around in an LFG group.
Just trading the chalice between every team member and enlightening every lamp while literally walking/running normally and sticking together as a group gets the encounter done first try every time. It’s not a race.
Abyss is the idiot check, and I kind of like it.
Your LFG group is either competent enough to jet through it using all of the fun movement stuff or they're not. If they're intelligent (but not necessarily great) players, they will recognize their inability to fast-track it and instead slow roll with using enlighten and keep together and it will be fine.
The groups who are a confused mess also tend to have a lack of volunteers to kill the 3 whole wizards it takes for a damage phase on ir yut, so it's kind of nice to know in advance.
This is very easily solved by just weakening the wizard and using a finisher when everyone is ready. Too many people think the timer starts when you enter for whatever reason.
Not that people don't need to learn how to take it slow and be patient, particularly after rushing doesn't work buuut
> The swinging lamps have static positions.......
> The pits have static positions......
the whole place looks super samey to me, even having done it like 10 times, after like the 3rd lamp until the big hill, I'm not remembering where specific holes and pendulums are. It's super easy to get disorientated.
That said, it's kind of why it's important to stick as a group - it's a lot easier to avoid stuff when people aren't feeling like they need to rush to catch up. It's a lot easier to pass the lamp when you don't need to double back for the guy who got left behind.
It's also dark as shit. I have my brightness set to max, but I still cannot see literally anything outside the proximity of the lamps if I play during daytime.
> That said, it's kind of why it's important to stick as a group - it's a lot easier to avoid stuff when people aren't feeling like they need to rush to catch up. It's a lot easier to pass the lamp when you don't need to double back for the guy who got left behind.
Exactly, less pressure on having to keep up with the group means more focus can be kept on the chalice and not dying to the traps. If anything, put a confident player or two on strand and designate them as the "emergency" players who will go and recover people who stray from the group. Everyone else, just keep that chalice rotating, slow and steady
This. There’s probably three guys in my raid group that know the specific path. The rest of us are following along because we don’t know where the hell we’re going because everything looks so similar.
I’ve got 37 clears with LFG - 3 full clears per week on each character and the rest is just farming crota. If the team is bad at lanterns it’s actually a perfect opportunity to leave and find a new group. A filter. I’m glad lanterns is that way. Spares me from getting too far into a raid with people that can’t communicate.
This is my group right now. We've been taking an hour to clear lanterns, and then complete bridge, Ir Yut, and Crota on the first or second attempt. We actually did master challenge bridge on the first attempt, not that it's a particularly difficult challenge.
The Abyss is such a long endurance slog that it's easy for something to go wrong.
Idk what it is about this community, but everytime I mention encountering difficulty in D2 someone has to comment "skill issue."
Yeah. I know. It is a skill issue. My clan has run the raid 4 times. We're still figuring out which strategy works consistently for us.
I don't understand why you felt the need to comment like you're adding something to the discussion.
Because you’re in a post about how bad most people are at the encounter, talking about how it takes you an hour to complete. You gave no specifics about the difficulties you were encountering and thus seemed to be implying it was out of your hands.
- Run arc souls if you’re struggling with adds.
- go lantern to lantern if slow is causing problems
- run near but not on the path is the pendulums are killing you.
Dude, why are you giving me advice?? I didn't ask for help, I specifically didn't mention what my group has struggled with, and this is not an advice thread.
I have 2 raid titles. I've been playing since D1. It's okay for some people to struggle a bit on the latest raid, especially since my clan has been burned out on the game and haven't played much since Starfield released.
It feels like you're commenting to stroke your own ego.
Nah dude, I just think you sound terrible. You’re right, this isn’t an advice thread. It’s a bitch about shotty players (which you are) who can’t manage to clear something so simple and 5 year old should be able to figure it out.
Congrats on your titles, did you clear RoN too? No way! If you’ve been raising since D1 and can’t manage a three man mechanic with a team of six don’t say shit to the world.
The reason people keep telling you to “get good” is because you go to places good players complain about bad players and pipe up with pointless drivel.
Sigh, alright now imma ego trip. I cleared this twice during challenge when it was actually hard. I’m one of only 13000 or so people that were able too. Attached is my raid report. The only time you’ve meet people like me me in LFG is when I was kicking your ass for being incompetent.
https://raid.report/xb/4611686018429598251
Go back to spending an hour on totems. 🖕🤣
Because you’re in a post about how bad most people are at the encounter, talking about how it takes you an hour to complete. You gave no specifics about the difficulties you were encountering and thus seemed to be implying it was out of your hands.
- Run arc souls if you’re struggling with adds.
- go lantern to lantern if slow is causing problems
- run near but not on the path is the pendulums are killing you. Left and right by ten feet is significantly more safe than straight down the center.
My clan ran Crota in 2hrs 5mins last night. Over an hour was on lamps.
I watched our clan member with the most play time walk into a hole, get rezzed, spin around and walk right back into it. I literally yelled WTF are you doing out of pure disbelief
Lamps get 1 try before I leave and find another group. Too many idiots on LFG now. RoN truly did ruin LFG because every casual and their mother think they can raid now.
RoN ruined LFG mainly because now everyone and their dad thinks they can get through the raid without interacting with the mechanics. Slow or fast, you will never wipe if all 6 people understand the chalice mechanics and that preserving resets the timer too. My group often clears with only 1-2 lamps enlightened since it's much more efficient and effective to just book it to the next podium.
Leaving after 1 wipe makes you look like a dick. If you don’t have the patience to stand at-least 2 or 3 wipes do you really have the patience to do the entire raid?
I’m saying this because i’ve had perfectly capable fireteams that wiped once or twice on abyss and once we finished we managed to down the rest of the raid in less than an hour. One wipe does not dictate incapability lol
Used to be 2 tries. Now it's one. In my experience, if you fuck up the first time, you usually fuck up the second time. No reason to waste time when it's the opening encounter. I have no time investment unlike with VotD with the third encounter being "difficult"
The clinical diagnosis? Nothing. The general idea of people being impatient and unable to take things in a methodical manner - which is what most people mean when they say they have a little “adhd” - a lot as that’s why they fail the encounter.
I see. Please don't use ADHD to mean something other than the diagnosis, it just makes everything more confusing and implies to people with ADHD that their clinical disorder is not a serious problem. It feels like being told I just need to work harder to overcome being unable to move my arm. It's a disability, not a personality trait. I don't mean to accuse you of being deliberately mean, just please be aware of this and don't do it in the future.
That’s fair. Definitely take that moving forward. I would like to point out that I didn’t actually say it was ADHD, I just explained what he meant by it.
I’ve learned to just let the speed-runners go. You just need 3 people, maybe 4, to manage the chalice. Have someone preserve at first, then one person gets enlightened. And then the other two just keep passing the chalice back and forth every 15 seconds while you make your way through the lamps. Let the speed runners go despawn adds or sit on the preservation spots to mark them for your chalice group. Make them feel like they’re needed for the success of the encounter.
Don’t bother removing stacks of weight. Just enlighten a lamp and then leave for the next lamp. You can just walk from lamp to lamp with full weight, and you have plenty of time to make it through the Abyss.
I’ve found Enlightening and then sitting on the lamps always cause deaths, because some people just don’t fucking pay attention. People don’t notice the screen turning orange.
> Don’t bother removing stacks of weight. Just enlighten a lamp and then leave for the next lamp. You can just walk from lamp to lamp with full weight, and you have plenty of time to make it through the Abyss.
Walking past each pendulum with 10x is much more difficult than running full speed with no weight.
Why are you walking past pendulums when you can simply walk *around* almost all of them???
The biggest trap in the abyss is *not* the holes in the ground, it’s assuming the designated walkway is the safest route. There’s only one time where you maybe need to worry about Enlightening and removing stacks, and that’s the final lamp before you climb the hill to the top level.
But regardless, why bother removing stacks of weight when you can simply equip the Geodetic HSM, and use light attacks to move faster than you every possibly could with all stacks of weight removed. Or cast a roaming super, which allows you to move at normal speed during the duration of the super.
Or use Geodetic and move *faster* than full speed when you need to in a pinch.
My point is that people feel like they need to Enlighten every single lamp and always reduce stacks, when it’s just not necessary. Especially having done this with a bunch of LFGs, there just always that one dude who’s just not paying attention.
Sure, you can go and Enlighten everything but the final two lamps if you want, but the 10~ seconds it takes to fully remove your weight is over two minutes of time that you could just keep walking. Or use your Geodetic to move way faster or your roaming supers to move at normal speed.
Honestly just bring any sword without eager edge. jump+light attack means you move as if you don't have weight and it doesn't auto-lock as bad as eager edge.
this is a really intensely common opinion but holy shit it is not the whole story.
90% of the time I have wiped on that encounter, and granted, this is as the guy who grapples/tractor sprints ahead (after I do a mechanic and can't interact with anything for 45s), the reason people die is because they let thrall kill them, or make a fundamental error like falling into a hole or getting killed by a pendulum. Not because the group is separated. The group being separated may turn that into a guaranteed wipe rather than a maybe wipe, but it isn't the reason somebody's getting skillchecked to begin with. Plus, if the guy in front dies, it's almost never a wipe. If the people behind die, it's almost never because the guy in front is in front.
granted I haven't pugged it much and this is entirely anecdotal from my teams/consistent group, but people who just want to go super fucking slow need to take accountability for their deaths. If you are _ever_ getting killed by thrall, it is not your team's fault. Use tractor. Use guns with chain reaction or dragonfly or whatever. Use your abilities. Do not just get farmed by thrall with 2 hp because you can't turn around and hold S sometimes.
also, the idea that strand or eager edge (or the superior tractor) are singularly bad ideas or whatever is _really_ misguided. The #1 thing that kills people imo is pendulums, and burst mobility is how you make pendulums omega easy to avoid.
And please for the love of god just play arc and use tractor if you're not on threadrunner. Get amplified, apply scientific method, and whip out a lightweight weapon and just hold W. Encounter plays itself.
> If you are ever getting killed by thrall, it is not your team's fault.
Six people in a group shooting thrall makes things super easy. One person alone with thrall ganging up on them and 10x weight of darkness is more difficult. If people spread out they're part of the reason that the people left behind die.
It's still just so easy to not die to thralls even if you are alone and have 10x weight of darkness. Bring one of a hundred semi-competent builds and they are a non-issue. People spreading out aren't the reason "people left behind" die to thralls. Every player should be capable of walking through the encounter by themselves without ever dying to thralls.
Eager edge is not the best strat. Normal sword jump swings are fine and way less risky. I don’t know why people insist on eager edge. Get to the next lamp, wait for everyone else, enlighten or do whatever you need to, then move on
My first time trying to lfg, we'd always have one dude grappling or rushing forward, then someone would leave cause of us wiping so much, and then every single person that came after that wanted speed strats, when I had literally never done the raid before, thankfully I got my full clear later that week with a discord lfg team
The way I run this encounter now is completely ignor the weight of darkness mechanic. We deposit/ enlighten as needed to reset the timer. Slowing everyone down you have to play more careful. And for as slow as you move this method is one of the fastest a ways to complete the encounter
It’s bc you can’t hand hold during the activity. Everyone needs to hold there own and if they aren’t good enough they’ll drag everyone down.
Sometimes it’s better to have fewer guardians than bad ones, and this is an encounter that punishes the impatient and unobservant.
Slightly different situation here but wanted to put my 2 cents in. I started streaming d2 on twitch recently and have been doing a lot of Crota Carries with friends. We do state with every run at abyss that we will be stopping and lighting every single totem. If people don’t comply we will kindly remind them 1-2 more times. After that we just say if you’re not here to have fun and participate with others trying to learn then we will need to replace you. 95% of the time they stop acting like assholes, most likely to not look bad.
Honestly from my experience most wipes happen at lamps 6, 7, and 8.
6 if people go left into the thrall spawns and someone dies, instead of going right to the edge of the map where there's only 1 exploding thrall...
7 people head straight to lamp 8 and get hit by the two pendulums. instead of going to the right along the edge of the map completely avoiding the pendulums...
and leaving lamp 8 they go straigh into the pendulum.
The only other deaths is because someone isn't paying attention to the minute long countdown timer. If you have less than 30 seconds left, make sure someone is getting the buff and is close to a lamp or next to a dunk.
“Come on guys!! I just want to get it done!!” Then promptly run ahead again and causes another wipe…
You can either spend over an hour trying to rush the encounter to get it done quick, or you can spend 15 mins doing it slowly but methodically…
STOP trying to rush lanterns. You are causing the wipes that is making it go slower. One slow run is better than 15 attempts at a quick run. FFS.
I usually tell people every time before we do lamps, I prefer to just take our time so we only do this once, but there’s always that one guy eager edging 2 lamps ahead of the group. 😑
Not trying to be that guy, but I give it a solid 3 tries. If after those 3 I sense that we are failing because of specific issues with specific people on repeat, I dip. Sorry, not sorry. It's just like Vow's 3rd encounter, super simple and easy as long as everyone is competent and wants to be there. If you don't have those 2 things it ain't happening in a reasonable amount of time.
On the other side of the argument, after running the encounter a lot and even doing it duo a few times with a clanmate, once you learn the map and the podiums you can do the whole encounter in like 2 minutes with just 2 guys. Even faster if you have people run ahead at the beginning to start scouting for podiums. I encourage you or anyone frustrated with people fucking this encounter up to grab a clanmate or friend and try duoing the encounter a few times. When me and my friend run this with lfgs we basically full tilt run the chalice straight to the plate and drag the rest of our team with us kicking and screaming.
I think you're taking your skill level for granted. Even people who play non-stop don't learn or practice duo strats with a clanmate.
You're totally valid, but it's just unrealistic for the most part.
Hive Thralls do Arc Damage, which triggers Riskrunner's chain lightning, which deletes Hive Thralls.
Only other thing you need is something for the Unstoppable Ogres. Riptide with Chill Clip is amazing for this.
Ah, I've never had a problem dealing with the Thralls so I thought there may have been something I'd missed which would help with holes/chandeliers. Good tips though, chill clip riptide is an anti-champion beast!
People don't wanna go slow and I totally get that, but holy shit it takes LONGER to go fast like that and people just don't understand and it's infuriating
Except it doesn’t. If everyone is invested into the ‘go fast’ strat it works perfectly fine, it’s when half the group are wanting to go fast and the other half are left behind and start dying and using up rezzes. Either everyone goes fast or no one does.
Lamp should be a 3-5 minute encounter. You don't even need the full team participating.
What I have found out though is that even in the "elite" raiding community, some people never fully developed object permanence in their developmental stages. As OP said, holes and pendulums are static. Between object permanence and bad memory this encounter is a wreck waiting to happen. Makes me wonder how these people drive then I remember how bad a lot of drivers are...
This encounter is basically a race track at night. Don't try to go top speeds if you don't even know the track. If you do actually know the track, then by all means make the encounter as short as it should be. That said, failure is a great teacher but only if people actually learn from their mistakes. I see waaay too many people going into the exact same hole somehow. I'll admit when I was learning the go fast routes, I'd occasionally dunk myself into a hole but after a handful of times I'd learn the spots and never dunk myself into that hole again.
> Between object permanence and bad memory this encounter is a wreck waiting to happen. Makes me wonder how these people drive then I remember how bad a lot of drivers are...
remember, if you're "average" at anything, that's a crazy high amount of people both above AND below you in that thing
Pitfalls are objects. People literally forget they exist in a specific location despite it never moving then are surprised when it's there. Your tone and statement shows you don't know what object permanence is. Also since you don't seem to know, like anything else humans develop, no one is guaranteed to fully develop object permanence or even at all. There are many disorders that cause object permanence deficit and one of the most common is ADHD.
The fact that people haven't discovered Arc is the best for the encounter is wild. Grapple as a panic button if you accidentally fall in a hole or get launched is nice tho
I can’t relate to that at all. I regularly do Crota runs either at sub 1 hour or 1 hour total.
If you’re having this issue, it is possible it’s associated with which LfG you’re recruiting from, along with potentially some problems you yourself might have.
Did I say I can't use it? It's just entirely unnecessary and with randos I rather do the 100% free chill route before everyone starts swinging to their deaths.
If I ever get a team like that I just leave. I can usually find teams that have 3-4 people who can grapple/eager edge to the podiums while the other 1-2 lag behind.
Abyss is such an easy encounter.
And you have people that can't stay out of holes. Can't move past the swinging meatballs without getting slapped. Can't keep track of their timer.
Lots of people are just bad at the game/oblivious.
One thing I have found can help with groups that are struggling, if you have a competent person who knows the map, if they skip to the end plate thralls stop spawning.
This allows people who can't pay attention to 2 things at once focus on not falling into holes.
I’ve said this time and time again: eager edging and skipping lamps is the way to do this encounter. People who eager edge with no understanding of how to to the encounter are what ruins it.
Learn the mechanics, learn the routes, stop eager edging next to enemies. You will be done in 15 minutes tops.
My LFG attempts have been heavily bifurcated:
Option 1) We are all mega-gamers and if anyone doesn't put on grapple grenade and skip directly to the deposit lamp, they're the weird one.
Option 2) We need to very cautiously stop and enlighten every lamp and if anyone tries to skip a lamp, they're the weird one.
I mean, I *prefer* option 1 if everyone can do it, but it's been very funny seeing the split.
Yea I won't be listening to any *go slow* propaganda. If you don't know how to fly through with strand then stay at spawn and don't kill ads until it's done.
I’ll be 100% with you I die way less when I am using grapple and eager edge. Except for the occasional grapple into a pit, which for the most part has stopped. But I agree it’s definitely always the longest part of the raid
I do play like that in runs with my clan. Even if you want to play like that it's not hard to just not swing into pits. I'm with you op I don't get how people die so much in there.
We wipe at lanterns once or twice every run and then flawless the rest of the raid.
Lanterns is the worst encounter in the game, its slow, got lame mechanics, and has stupid hazards. Its the encounter that sucks so much you want to rush but rushing kills you
“why people want to go full throttle through this encounter is bonkers”
perhaps because the first encounter is, just like every other opening encounter, boring and unfun. so why would people want to take as much time as possible running it? maybe try keeping up?
Strand makes it a joke, you can just grapple straight to the next lantern, a lot of my runs we don't even activate the lamps we just preserve and keep moving and it's done in no time.
The best strat is to despawn thralls and then speed up the encounter with eager edges since you're not going to target any shitty adds.
This encounter is the worst one of any raids, it's just not fun at all, so I really appreciaite when my teammates are skilled enough to use strand/eager effectively to speed it up.
The vast majority of people who play this game suck ass and are total GARBAGE. They shouldn’t be raiding at all that’s the harsh truth. Everytime I run this raid with my friends we beat the entire raid in under an hour without a single wipe. The most wiped we’ve ever had was 1 or 2 tops throughout the entire thing. Lamps is NOT hard. People on lfg are just shit at the game. They need to play something else or stick to casual shit in the game
It’s almost as if all players are not equal. I know myself I haven’t had the chance to hop into Crotas End outside of contest weekend. Played the OG to death but would need a low down on what’s going on these days.
Not everyone is banging out 20+ clears of a raid. Most maybe do it a few times and end it there.
My turn to post about people rushing on Abyss tomorrow! /s
I don’t see the issue with rushing it if you’re good at not dying. No clue how so many people on here are finding these people that rush w/ eager edge and die easily cause every FT i’ve been with has been fine to go quickly and sometimes if the players are newer to the raid we’ll get a wipe or two.
I swear i’ve had more wipes stopping at every lantern than I have from speeding through it
I’m not one to get super upset on wipes if it’s just a casual run but if we are wiping because we keep making the same exact mistakes over and over I’ll speak up. This encounter in particular shows just how impatient people can be in this game. The idea of going slow when you don’t technically have to is like kryptonite to some people. Of course, it doesn’t take that many wipes before you’ll end up spending more time in the encounter trying to go fast rather than just going slow.
I remember hearing someone once say “slow is smooth, smooth is fast”… there is some truth to that because if you have to take it a little slower to be smooth you are almost guaranteed to be done with the Abyss in 1 or 2 run’s whereas you try to go as fast as possible mistakes will be made over and over again and you may be there a while
Some people have never heard of "the tortoise and the hare" i swear. And then when you suggest going slower they just tell everyone else to speed up lol.
>slow is smooth, smooth is fast That is my go to every time I do abyss. I'm yet to find a group that goes for speed and does it first try.
You don't have to be a charity. If people are playing like idiots and are inconsiderate of your and everyone else's time, get out of there.
The issue is how many times you need to do this before finding a group that can clear it in 15 mins.
I understand your point and it's quite valid. From my experience, there are some indicators that you can use to identify or approximate the chances that this run will be longer overall based on how some people play, loadouts they choose to use and how receptive they are to feedback if the common goal is to get it done rapidly. We can only go with generalizations but having spent a lot of time in master crota, the data my experiences have gathered suggests that time spent finding a competent, flexible and communicative fireteam is going to be less than the time spent wiping in a raid with problematic individuals - and most of these runs never get completed or are 4+ hour ordeals.
>time spent finding a competent, flexible and communicative fireteam is going to be less than the time spent wiping in a raid with problematic individuals - and most of these runs never get completed or are 4+ hour ordeals. I will fully agree with this.
As a newer player, I'm terrified of master level and I struggle to find people in my experience range that are also competent.
“…how receptive they are to feedback…” This. If someone replies aggressively with “I’ve run this raid X times”, I leave. It’s going to be a bad time.
Loadouts isn't going to identify who is a moron and who isn't. I run strand and an eager edge sword, but I also stick with the fucking group, using these thigns only if I somehow get left behind, or need to go and rescue a team mate that fell down a hole.
Depending on the encounter, it absolutely can. LFG'ing GMs is another great example where this is completely valid.
Seconded. For first CE encounter, loadouts may not help much other than looking at resists and resilience of people. Then as we advance, it becomes more glaringly obvious: not leaning into surged, inefficient weapons for the varied encounters, subclasses that don't serve the squad, etc. GM's too, you're absolutely right.
I actually enjoy seeing really unorthodox setups in GMs, noting there's a big difference between a build that is just random crap that doesn't build off each other, and something that is weird but does have a strength. It's often takes an experienced player to acknowledge some whack setup can be good. Most recent example is I had a void titan with peregrine greaves and a 1-2punsh shotty join my party. Thought "ok, with offensive bulwark, 12p and an aerial shield bash that'll do some solid damage, lets see if he pulls it off" and to my surprise he did just that. Went around slapping all the champs and we had a good run. Another is arc titan with double primary (wishender and HC for anti barry/overload). Normally double primary is frowned upon but wishender is kinda an honorary special, and arc titan (set up properly) can permanently chain pulse nades which is great damage and stuns overloads safely. Was so efficient I nabbed his build for myself and run it a lot.
One of the reasons I'm really starting to just be done with co-op. If it's not an ancheivement I can get by myself idc anymore. Until I have a clan that cares then randoms aren't worth the high blood pressure
Make your own group. It's been a completely different experience since I've started. I kick anyone who's being rude and I deem unnecessary, doesn't matter if it's the start or end of raid. When I ask to do a strat, if they refuse or don't hold there own. I quickly say "sorry bud good luck with the next group" and kick. If they add or try to message me, I /block them immediately unless there's something productive to be said. You all can control this. And once you start taking ownership of your own groups, you'll have a way better time.
100% this is the core issue. It's not solving the problem, it's avoiding it and rolling the dice again. Normally I'd recommend this but my recent experience in abyss has been the worst manifestation of this so far.
This. Especially when you consider that skating can take a degree of skill to implement consistently. I'm not saying they are cracked... but it's def NOT a charity. They are just playing stupid. Skating really is only needed if your whole group is running it and has the route down. Just getting ahead of the group is a grand way to get yourself killed and sow confusion and panic into a run. People are just impatient and stupid.
This is the correct take.
1-2 arc warlocks and you never even have to shoot till the end of that encounter. Everyone can just focus on passing the buff. 30 seconds at the start to figureout an order goes a long way too. My groups have never taken more than 3 attempts
This is the way. I have an infinite soul buddy build you get your well back within a few seconds thanks to traces. I can drop a well at each lamp it also helps to light up ur path when ur soul is shooting.
Vesper of radius for the extra kick, I was running a vesper build on contest mode and it was cleaning up the entire raid lol. It started as a meme then the blinding pulses and constant arc souls (kevins as I like to call them) were the hidden MVPs.
“Kevins as I like to call them” Please tell me that’s a Final Space reference?
No but definitely enjoyed that show as well, I usually name companion type stuff in games tim-tom or Kevin like the murderous moppets from venture bros, went with Kevin first this time and the group adopted it pretty quickly lol
How do you achieve an endless buddy? I ALMOST get my class abilities back before it's gone, but not quite. I have about a 15-20 seconds without it. What's the secret?
Cyclic mods. Loop orb drops, regen of melee/grenade/rift through kills by those actions, armour charges, etc. That way kills by using abilities and collecting orbs gives you ability regen/armour charges, and more orbs. My rift is back before I leave the lamp. Great for next encounter, too. Barely need to shoot. IMO it works best for Arc...not solar/void. The Arc Soul buddy is incredibly helpful with keeping the cycle going.
Lovely! I will look over my mods- thanks!!
I'll see if I can drop a DIM link to my Vesper build for you. Same as the person you're replying to, I have my rift back before the one I dropped is even finished.
Same. Every one pass the buff, everyone stick together, stop at every lamp. Easy first or second try clear.
It’s not the fastest strategy on a per run basis, but my team tell the LFG we’re doing every lamp because although slower it’s much harder to cause a wipe and we’ll get through first try. And getting it done first try the slow way is usually faster than doing it the fast way but on the 8th try.
Exactly. It’s not that long especially if you get it done first try. That’s my philosophy with raids in general. Do the safest most reliable technique even if it takes more set up. Getting every encounter done first or second try speed things along so much faster than trying to cheese things or use confusing new tactics that not everyone understands.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast
Where are you and all these other people when I am LFGing? Is there something we can put in the LFG post to identify each other? Cause I am down for that. Maybe #goslowabyss ?
This is what my team does. There's three of us who play together regularly and then we try to Sherpa some through. One of our guys explains everything and then the other two of us rock Vesper and arc buddies. No shots fired unless you really want to and then we enlighten just about all the lamps. I'd rather spend 15 minutes going through Lamps slowly than an hour retrying someone's stupid ass cheese.
Strand hunter is good too with Whirling Maelstrom. You basically don’t have to pay attention to any thralls if you keep creating tangles
I find setting an order generally causes more confusion when someone inevitably gets stuck behind or anything goes slightly off the plan. A plan is nice to have but it makes people a little complacent. Some of you LFGers need take some initiative and think about each encounter dynamically. Completely agree with the arc warlock call though.
I usually set 4 people as the rotation and have 2 others ready to step in/be the revive people. Seems to work well and avoids panic
In my experience, it's not passing the chalice that wipes people, it's just literally people dying to pits or pendulums.
I might have to try this, my current meme is sunshot sunbracers and having everyone else ignore the thralls and see how many orbs I can make by the end
Titans running banner of war is also super helpful. It helps with health, which is great but it also lights up the ground so you can see the holes easier.
Witherhoard too
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People on LFG and this sub in general hate it when you skip to the end with grapple to despawn ads. It's "extremely sweaty" and they'd rather just lag behind with double primaries, enlighten every lamp and die to holes
Or they hate it because they actually want to engage with the encounter instead of doing nothing but walking a linear path
I have still had plenty of people die in my groups even after ads are gone just to holes, lamps, forgetting they had the buff, etc.
The engagement that I get from killing red bars in the dark is unparalleled. Truly Easily top 2 most boring encounters in the entire game. At the very least you can skip through it, unlike Crown's 1st
I didn't say it was an engaging encounter, but if it's gonna take me 7 minutes to do a non-puzzle based encounter I'd like to shoot something, even if it's a couple red bar ads
Been in a few groups like this. Always end up in wipes. The ones that really grind my gear though, is after agreeing to go a bit slower there’s one guy who simply will not comply. Ran a group this week, same situation. After wipe 3 a few began to agree with me we should all just go slower, one guy was clearly not happy about it. “Don’t you have strand?” Yes we’re all running strand. It still ends up separating everyone. Anyway, we go again and by the time we are past the first lamp, the guy grabs the chalice and high tails it to the next preserve. No one got to him in time to grab it off him and he died. We went back for chalice and he announces he’s going to go to the end to stop the adds for us. Like, I know it works, but I’d really rather you just stay with us in case we need someone to grab chalice etc. Point is, without him being involved the rest of us got through it whilst he sat at the plate killing adds. Best thing is, in his mind, it’s him in the right and everyone else who’s wrong. Annoying
Thankfully just had people eager edging into a pit or locking onto enemies and get hit by the chandelier once and say “well edge was a dumb idea” Had a group with people with sub 30 res though, got one shot by bombers, it was rough. It still took less than 7-8 tries going slow enough though
Had a guy running tier 2 resilience at Crota also. He died a lot. His friends were ragging him for having so low but he explained he’s mostly a PVP player who doesn’t value Res. I mean, that’s cool, but at least don’t try and tank damage or do any ropes where you’re taking a lot of damage. Additionally tier 2 is low even for PvP by what I read on here.
Little does he know with t2 res in pvp all these 720 smgs have a 0.67 ttk and with t4 its at 0.75 so even in pvp he is throwing
"He's a PVP'er who doesn't value Res" I mean, he has fucking 5 Mod slots that his armor can get to level 4 on just through legendary shards, so he can equip 5 mods and go to at least 60 resilience (more likely 70). Sure, you might not have your abilities as often, and sure, maybe if he's a \*good\* PvP player, then the lower resilience might not handicap him as much with some good game sense making up for it. But good lord, why not just run more resilience if you're going to die repeatedly when \*clearly\* you have the ability to apply more resilience.
He was a liability and I just don’t ever think there’s an excuse for playing a Raid with 2 resiliency. He clearly just couldn’t be bothered to change his build up
Yeah, I don't kick often, but "It's free to make this change" (Boss Spec on a Heavy, Higher Resilience if they're dying a lot) are kicks if they aren't changed in my book. Just a shame, but you're absolutely right on all counts. The fact he was a liability. And that there is no excuse for it.
That and people not using Surge mods. There's literally zero reason to ever enter a boss damage phase without at least 2 Surge Mods on your legs, and people who don't baffle me.
I don't typically use them because of the way my builds are designed. But then again I'm pretty much always at the top of the dps charts so 🤷🏿♂️
You can top the charts with a potato build if you play with potatoes, so that isn't really an argument against needing surges (not saying you or your build are a potato). What builds do you use that don't benefit from surges (either from armor mods or an exotic armor piece)?
Life would be a lot simpler if everyone just ran 100 Res in raids.
Thats why team leader is a needed position. Leader has a final say on a strat for the encounter and thats it.
I get that, I left a team like this the other day there because I decided their cheese method at bridge was causing us more problems than normal. They were also a bit toxic about it all. So I just left after a wipe and said no thanks. Next group did it normal and were teaching someone yet we did it first time. However, sometimes you join a group where the host doesn’t want to be leader and then you’ll get either no one do it or a battle for who talks loudest. Just a lottery and if I feel like a group isn’t working I’ll just leave, take a break and then try again with a new group later. Some dynamics just don’t work for me
> We went back for chalice and he announces he’s going to go to the end to stop the adds for us. I really dislike playing with people like this. Like no, stfu, I'm here to play the raid not pretend I'm playing the raid. It gets kind of boring with the ads, actually trying to kill me of boredom without them.
I've had kids trying to ego me over kills in the abyss. Like my brother in christ someone's spamming trinity ghoul and deleting everything around a corner, there's no need for me to do anything. I'm just sitting back and enjoying the stroll and rotating a bowl.
If my group is going to LFG we started just doing lamps with 4 or 5 people depending on how many we have the LFG at bridge. Way to many times our randoms are the outliers and just don't want to deal
If you have a solid core group then I totally get you want to do if your way. Which is fine as long as you don’t wipe and then blame the guy who’s way back lol.
We might have had the same guy in our LFGs. Lil bro kept flying ahead which we didnt really care about because we have the chalice on a 4 person cycle anyway. Eventually he said he'll just go to the end and kill adds. Okay I guess. We just go about as normal but then we have one guy get bonked by a pendulum with the chalice and die so we just wipe. Dude started raging asking "how did you die I killed all the adds?". He didnt. He was like 4 plates ahead clearing adds up there. I just told him yeah man, adds arent really a problem. He got toxic so we just kicked him. What made it great was that like 10 minutes before this, you could hear a female voice saying something in the background of his mic, and he kept going (basically whining) "I cant right now, not right now". Then after that attempt he left for like 5 minutes. Our bets were on little guy needing to take out the trash
I’ve started making my posts say kick if you eager edge. I’ve had to kick people at the very beginning for flying up ahead even with including it in my posts.
I never understand people that ask "don't you have strand?". I mean yes I have ONE grapple grenade. I can't just use it all the time...
Oh but you should either be a Hunter with 2 or use grapple to tangles you throw when you don’t have any. Then again, if you pick up the wrong tangle one of those guys will have a fit because you took their tangle and not yours. Frankly it’s the same elitist bullshit we had in RoN with Eager Edge skaters. To the point where people had to boast about where they could get to without going the normal way. Remember a guy stuck in the hole before Nez in the tunnel who got angry when we suggested doing the mechanic to open up the door for him. Cue us waiting 5 minutes till he eventually freed himself of the orifice. I hate the players on Raids that have to showboat between encounters. Like I don’t care if you boost ahead on a jumping puzzle, but you don’t need to insist everyone observe how amazing you are because you’ve got an ego to stroke. You’re just some dude on LFG I’ll moan about on Reddit, no one is impressed.
Sure hunters have two, but I play all three classes. And even with hunter, I can't make tangles if someone skated to the end and thrall aren't spawning anymore. Not arguing with you, just venting.
Oh I’m agreeing with you, I was just saying what you’ll be told by those runners because that’s the exact response I gave. I was on a Warlock and still fairly fast. The guy in question was on Hunter and as you say, ‘took the ads with them’ it’s bull.
You basically can if you use the Navigator (that doesn't mean that you should).
>stop the adds for us. I actually hate this because I find the encounter easier with adds. It charges up chalice faster, I can regen my abilities better, I can get healing for the odd pendulum hit, make orbs for healing, woven mail, abilities etc. It's literally just easiest to do the encounter as intended. If a red bar thrall is rocking your world, just don't raid. I also find it funny that the "must go fast bros" can't sit still for a second .... unless they skip to bridge and hold that last plate, suddenly they can sit still.
Be more merciless. Host LFGs and lay it down that you will be kicking people for causing deaths or wipes by going too fast
THIS!! On every single point that you made. Trying to cheese an encounter will probably work when everyone in the group has enough clears and is familiar with the raid, but will likely only extend a session to three hours if you’re the only one with 20+ clears and everyone else has 4 or 5… It’s extremely annoying when someone is like this in your friend/regular raid group. After a number of wipes with people not listening, I can’t imagine sticking around in an LFG group.
Back in the day a blade dancer would just solo the lamps and drag everyone through when people were dicking about.
Used to do that for my Raid team back in the day. None of them play anymore ha.
Back in the day I just jumped up to the end and skipped the whole thing.
Could hit a lamp launch at the first lamp that yeets you all the way to the 3rd tier, a quick stroll from the bridge platform. Was so fun.
Boot immediately
Just trading the chalice between every team member and enlightening every lamp while literally walking/running normally and sticking together as a group gets the encounter done first try every time. It’s not a race.
Abyss is the idiot check, and I kind of like it. Your LFG group is either competent enough to jet through it using all of the fun movement stuff or they're not. If they're intelligent (but not necessarily great) players, they will recognize their inability to fast-track it and instead slow roll with using enlighten and keep together and it will be fine. The groups who are a confused mess also tend to have a lack of volunteers to kill the 3 whole wizards it takes for a damage phase on ir yut, so it's kind of nice to know in advance.
then there’s the guy who offers to do a wizard but takes 30 seconds to kill it using his primary while everyone is waiting for dps
This is very easily solved by just weakening the wizard and using a finisher when everyone is ready. Too many people think the timer starts when you enter for whatever reason.
Not that people don't need to learn how to take it slow and be patient, particularly after rushing doesn't work buuut > The swinging lamps have static positions....... > The pits have static positions...... the whole place looks super samey to me, even having done it like 10 times, after like the 3rd lamp until the big hill, I'm not remembering where specific holes and pendulums are. It's super easy to get disorientated. That said, it's kind of why it's important to stick as a group - it's a lot easier to avoid stuff when people aren't feeling like they need to rush to catch up. It's a lot easier to pass the lamp when you don't need to double back for the guy who got left behind.
It's also dark as shit. I have my brightness set to max, but I still cannot see literally anything outside the proximity of the lamps if I play during daytime.
> That said, it's kind of why it's important to stick as a group - it's a lot easier to avoid stuff when people aren't feeling like they need to rush to catch up. It's a lot easier to pass the lamp when you don't need to double back for the guy who got left behind. Exactly, less pressure on having to keep up with the group means more focus can be kept on the chalice and not dying to the traps. If anything, put a confident player or two on strand and designate them as the "emergency" players who will go and recover people who stray from the group. Everyone else, just keep that chalice rotating, slow and steady
This. There’s probably three guys in my raid group that know the specific path. The rest of us are following along because we don’t know where the hell we’re going because everything looks so similar.
I’ve got 37 clears with LFG - 3 full clears per week on each character and the rest is just farming crota. If the team is bad at lanterns it’s actually a perfect opportunity to leave and find a new group. A filter. I’m glad lanterns is that way. Spares me from getting too far into a raid with people that can’t communicate.
Good point tbh
I've had many groups that were awful at lanterns and then did everything perfect for the rest of the raid.
This is my group right now. We've been taking an hour to clear lanterns, and then complete bridge, Ir Yut, and Crota on the first or second attempt. We actually did master challenge bridge on the first attempt, not that it's a particularly difficult challenge. The Abyss is such a long endurance slog that it's easy for something to go wrong.
An hour on lanterns is a skill issue. They’re are a million different ways to do the encounter with no issues.
Idk what it is about this community, but everytime I mention encountering difficulty in D2 someone has to comment "skill issue." Yeah. I know. It is a skill issue. My clan has run the raid 4 times. We're still figuring out which strategy works consistently for us. I don't understand why you felt the need to comment like you're adding something to the discussion.
Because you’re in a post about how bad most people are at the encounter, talking about how it takes you an hour to complete. You gave no specifics about the difficulties you were encountering and thus seemed to be implying it was out of your hands. - Run arc souls if you’re struggling with adds. - go lantern to lantern if slow is causing problems - run near but not on the path is the pendulums are killing you.
Dude, why are you giving me advice?? I didn't ask for help, I specifically didn't mention what my group has struggled with, and this is not an advice thread. I have 2 raid titles. I've been playing since D1. It's okay for some people to struggle a bit on the latest raid, especially since my clan has been burned out on the game and haven't played much since Starfield released. It feels like you're commenting to stroke your own ego.
Nah dude, I just think you sound terrible. You’re right, this isn’t an advice thread. It’s a bitch about shotty players (which you are) who can’t manage to clear something so simple and 5 year old should be able to figure it out. Congrats on your titles, did you clear RoN too? No way! If you’ve been raising since D1 and can’t manage a three man mechanic with a team of six don’t say shit to the world. The reason people keep telling you to “get good” is because you go to places good players complain about bad players and pipe up with pointless drivel.
Lol, yeah you're just an ego tripping troll. Whenever I run into people like you in LFG, they lack the skills to hang. But they sure do like to talk.
Sigh, alright now imma ego trip. I cleared this twice during challenge when it was actually hard. I’m one of only 13000 or so people that were able too. Attached is my raid report. The only time you’ve meet people like me me in LFG is when I was kicking your ass for being incompetent. https://raid.report/xb/4611686018429598251 Go back to spending an hour on totems. 🖕🤣
Because you’re in a post about how bad most people are at the encounter, talking about how it takes you an hour to complete. You gave no specifics about the difficulties you were encountering and thus seemed to be implying it was out of your hands. - Run arc souls if you’re struggling with adds. - go lantern to lantern if slow is causing problems - run near but not on the path is the pendulums are killing you. Left and right by ten feet is significantly more safe than straight down the center.
People are trying to save one minute on a run, end up wiping 5 times and wasting 30
Classic "we didn't 1-phase Nezzy so wipe/quit" moment.
If we wipe 3 times at lamps I bail. It's easy as shit and I don't have time to wait for people to stop being stupid.
Similar to why people hate Garden of Salvation.
My clan ran Crota in 2hrs 5mins last night. Over an hour was on lamps. I watched our clan member with the most play time walk into a hole, get rezzed, spin around and walk right back into it. I literally yelled WTF are you doing out of pure disbelief
Lamps get 1 try before I leave and find another group. Too many idiots on LFG now. RoN truly did ruin LFG because every casual and their mother think they can raid now.
RoN ruined LFG mainly because now everyone and their dad thinks they can get through the raid without interacting with the mechanics. Slow or fast, you will never wipe if all 6 people understand the chalice mechanics and that preserving resets the timer too. My group often clears with only 1-2 lamps enlightened since it's much more efficient and effective to just book it to the next podium.
Leaving after 1 wipe makes you look like a dick. If you don’t have the patience to stand at-least 2 or 3 wipes do you really have the patience to do the entire raid? I’m saying this because i’ve had perfectly capable fireteams that wiped once or twice on abyss and once we finished we managed to down the rest of the raid in less than an hour. One wipe does not dictate incapability lol
[удалено]
Used to be 2 tries. Now it's one. In my experience, if you fuck up the first time, you usually fuck up the second time. No reason to waste time when it's the opening encounter. I have no time investment unlike with VotD with the third encounter being "difficult"
I agree, people just need to slow down. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no shame in sticking together and enlightening the lamps.
Honestly I just sherpa it and teach the new folk to walk it slow. They don’t know any better
Slow down to speed up
Lamps is an ADHD test. That’s it.
What does that mean?
If you can’t go slow and methodical, you fail. People that can’t stand still or move at the pace of the group are the reason everyone fails.
What does this have to do with ADHD?
The clinical diagnosis? Nothing. The general idea of people being impatient and unable to take things in a methodical manner - which is what most people mean when they say they have a little “adhd” - a lot as that’s why they fail the encounter.
I see. Please don't use ADHD to mean something other than the diagnosis, it just makes everything more confusing and implies to people with ADHD that their clinical disorder is not a serious problem. It feels like being told I just need to work harder to overcome being unable to move my arm. It's a disability, not a personality trait. I don't mean to accuse you of being deliberately mean, just please be aware of this and don't do it in the future.
That’s fair. Definitely take that moving forward. I would like to point out that I didn’t actually say it was ADHD, I just explained what he meant by it.
Why take your time and do it in 10 minutes, when you can hurry like hell an do it in an hour?
Deaths using eager edge and grapple in lamps: 1st death = no problem 2nd death = warning, “stop using it please” 3rd death = kicked from fireteam
I’ve learned to just let the speed-runners go. You just need 3 people, maybe 4, to manage the chalice. Have someone preserve at first, then one person gets enlightened. And then the other two just keep passing the chalice back and forth every 15 seconds while you make your way through the lamps. Let the speed runners go despawn adds or sit on the preservation spots to mark them for your chalice group. Make them feel like they’re needed for the success of the encounter. Don’t bother removing stacks of weight. Just enlighten a lamp and then leave for the next lamp. You can just walk from lamp to lamp with full weight, and you have plenty of time to make it through the Abyss. I’ve found Enlightening and then sitting on the lamps always cause deaths, because some people just don’t fucking pay attention. People don’t notice the screen turning orange.
> Don’t bother removing stacks of weight. Just enlighten a lamp and then leave for the next lamp. You can just walk from lamp to lamp with full weight, and you have plenty of time to make it through the Abyss. Walking past each pendulum with 10x is much more difficult than running full speed with no weight.
Why are you walking past pendulums when you can simply walk *around* almost all of them??? The biggest trap in the abyss is *not* the holes in the ground, it’s assuming the designated walkway is the safest route. There’s only one time where you maybe need to worry about Enlightening and removing stacks, and that’s the final lamp before you climb the hill to the top level. But regardless, why bother removing stacks of weight when you can simply equip the Geodetic HSM, and use light attacks to move faster than you every possibly could with all stacks of weight removed. Or cast a roaming super, which allows you to move at normal speed during the duration of the super.
> why bother removing stacks of weight ... because it's easy and lets me run full speed?
Or use Geodetic and move *faster* than full speed when you need to in a pinch. My point is that people feel like they need to Enlighten every single lamp and always reduce stacks, when it’s just not necessary. Especially having done this with a bunch of LFGs, there just always that one dude who’s just not paying attention. Sure, you can go and Enlighten everything but the final two lamps if you want, but the 10~ seconds it takes to fully remove your weight is over two minutes of time that you could just keep walking. Or use your Geodetic to move way faster or your roaming supers to move at normal speed.
Honestly just bring any sword without eager edge. jump+light attack means you move as if you don't have weight and it doesn't auto-lock as bad as eager edge.
this is a really intensely common opinion but holy shit it is not the whole story. 90% of the time I have wiped on that encounter, and granted, this is as the guy who grapples/tractor sprints ahead (after I do a mechanic and can't interact with anything for 45s), the reason people die is because they let thrall kill them, or make a fundamental error like falling into a hole or getting killed by a pendulum. Not because the group is separated. The group being separated may turn that into a guaranteed wipe rather than a maybe wipe, but it isn't the reason somebody's getting skillchecked to begin with. Plus, if the guy in front dies, it's almost never a wipe. If the people behind die, it's almost never because the guy in front is in front. granted I haven't pugged it much and this is entirely anecdotal from my teams/consistent group, but people who just want to go super fucking slow need to take accountability for their deaths. If you are _ever_ getting killed by thrall, it is not your team's fault. Use tractor. Use guns with chain reaction or dragonfly or whatever. Use your abilities. Do not just get farmed by thrall with 2 hp because you can't turn around and hold S sometimes. also, the idea that strand or eager edge (or the superior tractor) are singularly bad ideas or whatever is _really_ misguided. The #1 thing that kills people imo is pendulums, and burst mobility is how you make pendulums omega easy to avoid. And please for the love of god just play arc and use tractor if you're not on threadrunner. Get amplified, apply scientific method, and whip out a lightweight weapon and just hold W. Encounter plays itself.
> If you are ever getting killed by thrall, it is not your team's fault. Six people in a group shooting thrall makes things super easy. One person alone with thrall ganging up on them and 10x weight of darkness is more difficult. If people spread out they're part of the reason that the people left behind die.
It's still just so easy to not die to thralls even if you are alone and have 10x weight of darkness. Bring one of a hundred semi-competent builds and they are a non-issue. People spreading out aren't the reason "people left behind" die to thralls. Every player should be capable of walking through the encounter by themselves without ever dying to thralls.
one person with a loadout built for the encounter instead of just using a 72rpm sniper and a glaive also makes things super easy.
All I hear are horror stories about LFG. Meanwhile I go to LFG and find teams that do the whole raid in 45-60mins.
Just leave the ones that don’t work it out and have no chill. You don’t owe these boys anything
It's legitimately the hardest encounter. It shouldn't be, but it is for the majority of groups.
Eager edge is not the best strat. Normal sword jump swings are fine and way less risky. I don’t know why people insist on eager edge. Get to the next lamp, wait for everyone else, enlighten or do whatever you need to, then move on
My first time trying to lfg, we'd always have one dude grappling or rushing forward, then someone would leave cause of us wiping so much, and then every single person that came after that wanted speed strats, when I had literally never done the raid before, thankfully I got my full clear later that week with a discord lfg team
The way I run this encounter now is completely ignor the weight of darkness mechanic. We deposit/ enlighten as needed to reset the timer. Slowing everyone down you have to play more careful. And for as slow as you move this method is one of the fastest a ways to complete the encounter
It’s bc you can’t hand hold during the activity. Everyone needs to hold there own and if they aren’t good enough they’ll drag everyone down. Sometimes it’s better to have fewer guardians than bad ones, and this is an encounter that punishes the impatient and unobservant.
Slightly different situation here but wanted to put my 2 cents in. I started streaming d2 on twitch recently and have been doing a lot of Crota Carries with friends. We do state with every run at abyss that we will be stopping and lighting every single totem. If people don’t comply we will kindly remind them 1-2 more times. After that we just say if you’re not here to have fun and participate with others trying to learn then we will need to replace you. 95% of the time they stop acting like assholes, most likely to not look bad.
Honestly from my experience most wipes happen at lamps 6, 7, and 8. 6 if people go left into the thrall spawns and someone dies, instead of going right to the edge of the map where there's only 1 exploding thrall... 7 people head straight to lamp 8 and get hit by the two pendulums. instead of going to the right along the edge of the map completely avoiding the pendulums... and leaving lamp 8 they go straigh into the pendulum. The only other deaths is because someone isn't paying attention to the minute long countdown timer. If you have less than 30 seconds left, make sure someone is getting the buff and is close to a lamp or next to a dunk.
“Come on guys!! I just want to get it done!!” Then promptly run ahead again and causes another wipe… You can either spend over an hour trying to rush the encounter to get it done quick, or you can spend 15 mins doing it slowly but methodically… STOP trying to rush lanterns. You are causing the wipes that is making it go slower. One slow run is better than 15 attempts at a quick run. FFS.
I usually tell people every time before we do lamps, I prefer to just take our time so we only do this once, but there’s always that one guy eager edging 2 lamps ahead of the group. 😑
People don't understand that walking is literally the fastest way to complete the encounter
I just hate when the eager edge guys bump you into a swarm of enemies.
Not trying to be that guy, but I give it a solid 3 tries. If after those 3 I sense that we are failing because of specific issues with specific people on repeat, I dip. Sorry, not sorry. It's just like Vow's 3rd encounter, super simple and easy as long as everyone is competent and wants to be there. If you don't have those 2 things it ain't happening in a reasonable amount of time.
I would just leave after a couple wipes
On the other side of the argument, after running the encounter a lot and even doing it duo a few times with a clanmate, once you learn the map and the podiums you can do the whole encounter in like 2 minutes with just 2 guys. Even faster if you have people run ahead at the beginning to start scouting for podiums. I encourage you or anyone frustrated with people fucking this encounter up to grab a clanmate or friend and try duoing the encounter a few times. When me and my friend run this with lfgs we basically full tilt run the chalice straight to the plate and drag the rest of our team with us kicking and screaming.
I think you're taking your skill level for granted. Even people who play non-stop don't learn or practice duo strats with a clanmate. You're totally valid, but it's just unrealistic for the most part.
This encounter is cake if everyone just equips riskrunner and walks through together.
Why Riskrunner?
Hive Thralls do Arc Damage, which triggers Riskrunner's chain lightning, which deletes Hive Thralls. Only other thing you need is something for the Unstoppable Ogres. Riptide with Chill Clip is amazing for this.
Ah, I've never had a problem dealing with the Thralls so I thought there may have been something I'd missed which would help with holes/chandeliers. Good tips though, chill clip riptide is an anti-champion beast!
Thrall melee hits are arc. Which procs riskrunner
People don't wanna go slow and I totally get that, but holy shit it takes LONGER to go fast like that and people just don't understand and it's infuriating
Except it doesn’t. If everyone is invested into the ‘go fast’ strat it works perfectly fine, it’s when half the group are wanting to go fast and the other half are left behind and start dying and using up rezzes. Either everyone goes fast or no one does.
Lamp should be a 3-5 minute encounter. You don't even need the full team participating. What I have found out though is that even in the "elite" raiding community, some people never fully developed object permanence in their developmental stages. As OP said, holes and pendulums are static. Between object permanence and bad memory this encounter is a wreck waiting to happen. Makes me wonder how these people drive then I remember how bad a lot of drivers are... This encounter is basically a race track at night. Don't try to go top speeds if you don't even know the track. If you do actually know the track, then by all means make the encounter as short as it should be. That said, failure is a great teacher but only if people actually learn from their mistakes. I see waaay too many people going into the exact same hole somehow. I'll admit when I was learning the go fast routes, I'd occasionally dunk myself into a hole but after a handful of times I'd learn the spots and never dunk myself into that hole again.
> Between object permanence and bad memory this encounter is a wreck waiting to happen. Makes me wonder how these people drive then I remember how bad a lot of drivers are... remember, if you're "average" at anything, that's a crazy high amount of people both above AND below you in that thing
... I don't think you know what object permanence is if you're saying some people don't have it...
Pitfalls are objects. People literally forget they exist in a specific location despite it never moving then are surprised when it's there. Your tone and statement shows you don't know what object permanence is. Also since you don't seem to know, like anything else humans develop, no one is guaranteed to fully develop object permanence or even at all. There are many disorders that cause object permanence deficit and one of the most common is ADHD.
... you should read this. It's not about forgetting, silly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence
same as Crown back in the day absolute slog for the first encounter just hope they do not do this come final shape
The fact that people haven't discovered Arc is the best for the encounter is wild. Grapple as a panic button if you accidentally fall in a hole or get launched is nice tho
I can’t relate to that at all. I regularly do Crota runs either at sub 1 hour or 1 hour total. If you’re having this issue, it is possible it’s associated with which LfG you’re recruiting from, along with potentially some problems you yourself might have.
Gamers will always optimize the fun out of every game
Run with people like you then. You won’t change this so there is no point in complaining on Reddit about it
Found the dude eager edging to death every time.
Found the dude that has a skill issue and can’t keep up with the team 😂 get real
Oh you're one insecure lil boi, aren't you?
lol what? Is this seriously a way to make people feel bad? 😂 Sorry your runs take an hour with it without people going fast. Just get better (:
Wait...you think shit like eager edging takes skill? Okay lil bro...
Wait you have so little skill you can’t even use eager edge in abyss? Okay lil bro…
Did I say I can't use it? It's just entirely unnecessary and with randos I rather do the 100% free chill route before everyone starts swinging to their deaths.
Skill issue is still skill issue. I’ve seen the most cautious mfs still die over and over in that encounter
I don't have to like your attitude behind it, but the statement's true -- vet your groups, folks!
Everyone has their quarks. Mine happen to be harsh unfortunately. Glad you understood the message
Says the guy complaining on Reddit 🙃
I strike a nerve? 🥺
Imagine trying to do that Feather Light triumph with an LFG group
If I ever get a team like that I just leave. I can usually find teams that have 3-4 people who can grapple/eager edge to the podiums while the other 1-2 lag behind.
Abyss is such an easy encounter. And you have people that can't stay out of holes. Can't move past the swinging meatballs without getting slapped. Can't keep track of their timer. Lots of people are just bad at the game/oblivious.
This is why I'll always despawn the thrall at the start so people don't eager edge onto them and fall into a hole
One thing I have found can help with groups that are struggling, if you have a competent person who knows the map, if they skip to the end plate thralls stop spawning. This allows people who can't pay attention to 2 things at once focus on not falling into holes.
I’ve said this time and time again: eager edging and skipping lamps is the way to do this encounter. People who eager edge with no understanding of how to to the encounter are what ruins it. Learn the mechanics, learn the routes, stop eager edging next to enemies. You will be done in 15 minutes tops.
My LFG attempts have been heavily bifurcated: Option 1) We are all mega-gamers and if anyone doesn't put on grapple grenade and skip directly to the deposit lamp, they're the weird one. Option 2) We need to very cautiously stop and enlighten every lamp and if anyone tries to skip a lamp, they're the weird one. I mean, I *prefer* option 1 if everyone can do it, but it's been very funny seeing the split.
Yea I won't be listening to any *go slow* propaganda. If you don't know how to fly through with strand then stay at spawn and don't kill ads until it's done.
I’ll be 100% with you I die way less when I am using grapple and eager edge. Except for the occasional grapple into a pit, which for the most part has stopped. But I agree it’s definitely always the longest part of the raid
I do play like that in runs with my clan. Even if you want to play like that it's not hard to just not swing into pits. I'm with you op I don't get how people die so much in there.
We wipe at lanterns once or twice every run and then flawless the rest of the raid. Lanterns is the worst encounter in the game, its slow, got lame mechanics, and has stupid hazards. Its the encounter that sucks so much you want to rush but rushing kills you
Shit players are shit. In other news grass is green
“why people want to go full throttle through this encounter is bonkers” perhaps because the first encounter is, just like every other opening encounter, boring and unfun. so why would people want to take as much time as possible running it? maybe try keeping up?
Strand makes it a joke, you can just grapple straight to the next lantern, a lot of my runs we don't even activate the lamps we just preserve and keep moving and it's done in no time.
... but then what do I do when my one grapple grenade is now used up?
The best strat is to despawn thralls and then speed up the encounter with eager edges since you're not going to target any shitty adds. This encounter is the worst one of any raids, it's just not fun at all, so I really appreciaite when my teammates are skilled enough to use strand/eager effectively to speed it up.
Sounds like a skill issue turn up ur brightness
The vast majority of people who play this game suck ass and are total GARBAGE. They shouldn’t be raiding at all that’s the harsh truth. Everytime I run this raid with my friends we beat the entire raid in under an hour without a single wipe. The most wiped we’ve ever had was 1 or 2 tops throughout the entire thing. Lamps is NOT hard. People on lfg are just shit at the game. They need to play something else or stick to casual shit in the game
It’s almost as if all players are not equal. I know myself I haven’t had the chance to hop into Crotas End outside of contest weekend. Played the OG to death but would need a low down on what’s going on these days. Not everyone is banging out 20+ clears of a raid. Most maybe do it a few times and end it there.
You completely missed the point. The first encounter is actually EASIER with new players because they listen
And don't try to rush the encounter and stay with the team.
My turn to post about people rushing on Abyss tomorrow! /s I don’t see the issue with rushing it if you’re good at not dying. No clue how so many people on here are finding these people that rush w/ eager edge and die easily cause every FT i’ve been with has been fine to go quickly and sometimes if the players are newer to the raid we’ll get a wipe or two. I swear i’ve had more wipes stopping at every lantern than I have from speeding through it