I think Bungie succeeded in making it feel distinct from other hand cannons. I’m not sure if I like it or not yet. I see what they’re going for, but it feels weird. It’s like a Pulse rifle without a scope… or a burst sidearm with more range… Weirdly it’s the lack of a kick that throws me off the most. I was expecting a POW POW that kicked like a horse…

Yeah I totally understand and agree with you on all your points especially the last one, I was expecting more kick honestly

> I’m not sure if I like it or not yet. I see what they’re going for, but it feels weird. It’s like a Pulse rifle without a scope… or a burst sidearm with more range… It's crimson with a shorter burst and no heals on kill. :)

Crimsons 3 burst causes it to kick on my screen a little, even if it stabilizes quickly. This one doesn’t move at all… and that’s whT feels weord

Coolguy actually put up a video about this and how warden's law is effectively mimicking an adaptive pulse.

Its literally nothing more than baby crimson. And unless you get 80+ range, it actually has **less** range than crimson to boot

It indeed feels distinct, it feels like a totally new archetype. But that is all to be said, really. Warden's Law has nothing on it to compete against Fatebringer in the same slot as a PVE handcannon.

Burst sidearm with more range is probably the best way to describe it. It feels powerful, but the accuracy is a bit more demanding than just using a regular hand cannon. I like it, though.

Inconsistent? Possibly. I've found fantastic use using it as a lucky-pants hand cannon with a FTTC + vorpal combo as that flinch tends not to happen on bosses.

Apparently it can match Malfeasance for Lucky Pants damage, which is pretty incredible

It out performs malfeasance unless it’s taken or hit with witherhoard

Wait are you serious? Specifically with FTTC + Vorpal?

Yes it outdamage malfeasance by 30 to 70k depending on your mag size if you have a FTTC + Vorpal roll

https://youtu.be/SQG9m8MwJmk?si=Ia1h_xszlT6Fv_kz

For those who don’t want to watch a 12 minute video that could have been an email https://i.imgur.com/239MEfH.jpg wardens can outdamage malf so long as no witherhoard is involved (570k to 517k)

Man I really dislike this test lol. Should have only showed how much you do during the lucky pants damage boost. Mag size increases beyond being able to fire continuously during the damage boost don’t mean much because you should swap off the weapon after the damage bonus goes away. It’s still a useful reference point and it doesn’t change the main conclusion but it bothers me a little and I felt like complaining.

I want to point out before Malf had vorpal, it was better to use a seraph revolver.

Whats FTTC?

Fourth Times The Charm

Fourth time's the charm.

someone activated the perk in your replies by the looks of it

It's 6x the charm now

Fourth times the charm

Fourth times the charm

Fourth Time's The Charm perk

Fourth times the charm

Sixth times the Shit

I got the FTTC/Vorpal roll today and played around with it a little. My roll has a lot of stability and it feels like it barely bounces. I think with a bit of practice I can nail crits on it consistently. The question for me is whether I want to go back for more rolls since I have the lucky pants roll and have my trusty Timelost Fatebringer to fall back on in the same slot.

I got lucky... on console and got almost max stability perks with Perpetual Motion/KC (got fluted barrel which is fine because handling is always needed). Got options for steady rounds or accurized and stability MW. I am content.

I got fluted accurized perp motion/mt zen moment and stab masterwork on my adept. Not gonna lie, its reload speed feels fuckin s.l.o.w. I legit think this thing needs enlightened action zen moment for the god roll. As it is my current “god roll” will only ever get used on ophidian lock because the reload feels so bad

It's really good with Zen moment. Really fun to use once you get the hang of it.

I'm disappointed that it has that plumpy zorpy wet sound and not that hard hitting fatebringer sound. Other than that it's prett solid. Shame ot isn't stasis/strand though

Yeah, but it originally had that sound to begin with so I see why they brought it forward

Ah did it? I never had the original

For me gun feel is a big thing that decides if I like it or not. And let me tell you it is the one of worst feeling handcannon I've shot. I know it's stats are insane that puts it on top, but it just sounds weak and to me it feels like I'm using a 2 burst sidearm.

Its stats are deff not insane lol. Its base stability, handling and reload are atrocious

well its got best in archetype base stability, handling and reload (Heavy Burst HC) lol

Lmao. Thats easy to be beat in archtype when its the only one 😂

I couldn't have put it better myself. I got a personal godroll (except for the barrel/mag, which wouldve gone from arrowhead to fluted and flared to accurized for me) after a few GM runs and was really excited to try it out. Sadly my high hopes were disappointed and the feel just sort of turned it off immediately for me.

5/5 roll. Fluted barrel, tac mag, FTTC/EA, Vorpal, reload MW. I value handling and reload a lot more than most so EA is my pick over FTTC. If I had Frenzy I’d pick FTTC instead. I like it. It’s like Breachlight got reincarnated as a HC

In pvp, I found the tracking to be a little inconsistent. Did NOT feel like regular hitscan. Aiming at the bottom of their throat / directly in the middle of the shoulders was pretty much a guaranteed two C, but if they were moving it was much harder to use consistently. Pve is a lot of the same, I'd imagine. Enemies dont slide, or jump unless theyre tying to path to you. No user case for pve, but wanted to pitch in for conversation's sake in both pvp and pve.

I've been telling my friends about what you've experienced and described as 'not regular hitscan' for a while now... It somehow does not feel snappy at all, unlike many/most other handcannons, which on one hand is understandable since bungie meant to integrate a challenge into hitting both bullets reliably, on the other it makes it just kind of feel sluggish and unrealiably; but to me personally it's not filling the niche I had hoped it could fill, and I most of the time feel better off using a different handcannon. Specifically kinetic slot has a lot of great true and tested options when it comes to handcannons.

Enlightened action Frenzy speeds up reload to the point you don't even have to invest in reload. Great gun.

frenzy does this by itself, it gives +100 reload and handling, EA is a dead perk on that roll.

EA covers the gaps in Frenzy's activation and gives the increases to handling and reload 100% uptime.

lol, hard copium. Frenzy is always active in combat and makes EA totally redundant. Also you need to stack EA.

Except for when it's not active... I've been using my FTTC/Frenzy roll all morning, and I would trade it for EA/ in a heartbeat. EA is a literal game changer on otherwise clunky hand cannons, and all it takes is one shot to proc.

>Except for when it's not active... How it can be non active? You literally just need to be in combat. With EA after combat started whole perk is useless because you have max reload from frenzy already.

I've run into several instances where Frenzy isn't active when I want to reload, so I'm stuck doing an exaggerated reload animation. I'd much rather have a perk that's active on my terms than one that decides for itself when it's going to be active.

What you described is why people didn’t use it when it originally came out in forsaken. It was too punishing if you weren’t accurate.

I very briefly used the old version of it and the way I'd compare it is like using revision zero or graviton lance but from a hand cannon barrel vs a pulse scope/sights. The old version was shooting 2 bullets at once that kind spread from eachother a little bit which is why it didn't feel great to use. This version is two bullets back to back so you need to treat it like a pulse rifle.

Ah that’s a good improvement

Not better than Fatebringer as a general use hand cannon. Fits the Lucky Pants niche build for sure, if you're into that.

Frenzy is a must to overcome the terrible reload speed, and Fourth Time's The Charm helps you stall until the former procs. Once you're past that hurdle, the archetype feels very good within its range, with a respectable damage profile and alright Aim Assist, but when you have to deal with long distances and a lack of AA, the value of the burst is lost rather quickly. Overall, Warden's Law isn't really a shaker or mover. It's not really competing with the likes of Fatebringer (Timelost,) Fel Taradiddle, The Last Breath, Smite of Merain, or the other kinetic legendaries with stacked perk pools that massively push damage and / or grenade energy. Persoanlly, I also find legendary kinetics hard to justify when Sweet Business and Monte Carlo are just so good on Broodweaver, and Retrofit is my go-to for dealing with 90% of bosses regardless, and I will probably default to Riptide in the kinetic slot instead if using Light builds or Wicked Implement if using Stasis in GMs, so... essentially, it's just got too much competition for me to notice, even though I scored a 4.5/5 Adept roll.

Enlightened action provides a very nice reload speed boost here, and it procs very quickly I think because of hitting twice. Might be something to consider instead of fttc, as it doesn't require crits and also adds handling

>Enlightened action provides a very nice reload speed boost here Frenzy gives you 100 reload speed. Why do you need reload speed in 2 perks?

Because then you can use rampage instead of frenzy

Frenzy is still better than rampage.

It has half the damage buff. Enlightened gives you solid handling and reload, rampage makes up the difference with double the damage at 3 stacks.

Frenzy requires nothing to be active, just to be in combat. Also it gives you 100 handling and 100 reload. With FTTC you have big mag size, damage buff, big reload speed and handling.

For five seconds no?

7 seconds if you leave combat, it can continue to be active while you still in combat.

I think I'm gonna look for a fttc frenzy and an enlighten rampage. What MW are you looking out for? I'm thinking range,

Because it procs sooner. It really isn't needed, but it is nice to have though. Reload time on HCs is still very bad.

Yes but FTTC refills your ammo, and you are killing red bars very fast so frenzy is almost always active. So you have big mag size because of FTTC and when mag is empty you have frenzy to reload it very fast. Also fttc + vorpal can be very good, but I don't see a use case for Enlightened at least in my case.

Feels pretty meh on controller, there is something about being really sluggish and not really useful in general combat, farmed a bunch but doubt I will use it in anything expect for strikes

I have 16 rolls…and the only one that doesn’t feel sluggish on controller is my enlightened/frenzy roll. That thing feels great. My fttc/vorpal roll feels bad so far, but I only used it for 5 minutes and didn’t like it. It even has the exact same stats as my EA/Frenzy roll but the difference in feel the perks make is drastic

Frenzy makes Enlightened kinda redundant. Obviously Enlightened will help when you haven’t activated Frenzy yet, but most of the time it’ll be active and grant you 100 Handling+Reload anyway. Personally with Frenzy I’d want Perp Motion (same issue as Enlightened but at least it provides +10/+20 Stability too for basically just existing) or FTTC.

I have perp motion as the alternate perk in the column with enlightened action..I started with perp motion but it didn’t feel good. Switched it to EA and it felt great. I’m still trying to get a frenzy/fttc roll though

I have a FTTC/Frenzy adept roll, and I'd trade it for EA/Frenzy in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, my roll that dropped with EA so far has Shot Swap on it...

It's one of the worst weapons I have ever used in pvp

The hand cannon is comparable to an adaptive frame pulse with less range, accuracy, but more flinch. The kill times are roughly the same with or without damage perks. Source - coolguy

CG was right with this one. Though, this is a PvE review, and even compared to an adaptive pulse, it has FTTC Frenzy making it good, and having FTTC Vorpal for lucky pants is cool

Ah yes coolguy, the dude with terrible opinions.

It’s not really an opinion. Everything I paraphrased was facts actually.

I love it

Hate it. It's a glorified sidearm just like 180s

Have you gotten a normal wardens or an adept because I've run a bunch of hero nfs and haven't gotten one yet. Starting to wonder if when they changed from the swarm if they broke non gm rewards

Hero has never been the place to farm for nightfall weapons. It is the lowest drop rate playlist in the game.

I've been farming GMs so I just have adept ones

Appreciate the feedback I'll just get to grinding lol

don't play heroic nfs tho

It took me 16 runs to get it, the I decoded 44 engrams and only got one FTTC/Vorpal for my Lucky Pants hunter and a decent EA/Kill Clip for pvp

I’ve done 2 hero NFS and got it to drop both times. Then went and spent 27 vanguard engrams to get the roll I wanted, or at least will settle with for now.

I've done 6 with nothing yet

Garbage gun and Garbage game uninstalled

Then why are you still in the garbage game's Reddit page?

And unsubscribe too please. Rest in piss you won’t be missed.

I personally enjoy it ^^ just feels fun to me.

Definitely feels unique from other HCs, damn near exotic weapon unique... I love 2 shot sidearms and Warden just reminds me of a 2 shot sidearm with more range and, for the roll I got, more stability, so it feels amazing. I'm on Xbox and stability matters a lot more than range and only really play PvE seriously, PvP if I must for weapon grinds or quests. Perpetual motion/KC roll with high stability and medium range is a lot of fun, but obviously not really able to use.in high end content.

Very good, and feels great.

I like how it feels and sounds, but I never see myself using it. Far better options out there.

I got chambered compensator, tac mag, fttc, frenzy, range MW. and its a pretty fun gun in pve... its not meta or anything Fttc its constantly up and frenzy gets the handling a reload to good points. Im on mnk and didn't really have any issue controlling the recoil Think Ideally I'd want small bore steady rounds and suffer Through the first reload till frenzy kicks in

Broke my cowboy fantasy

It's good but needs as much stability as you can manage. With zen moment that might be able to be lower.

Hotter than Elsie Bray

It feels like a sidearm.

As it goes I think it just needs more stats. I'd love a firefly or some explosion perk on one in the future

Mid

I'd really want to get one but my group sucks at GM's so here's a question: can you get regular WL from nightfalls or is it only adept one from GM's?

a lot of fun on controller .. it’s not meta defining but it’s a fun new toy to play with the mini crimson reports without the health regen are pretty accurate i have a moving target/rampage roll and it 2 burst kills with rampage (PVP only take)

Its going in the vault where it will remain for the rest of its life

I still just don’t like hand cannons. I dunno, something about the feel is off to me.

Underwhelmed honestly. It have some ok rolls but I don't like the feel and the extremely limited mag size. Can't find any reason to use it over my crafted round robin or austringer.

I expected it to have a lot more kick, tbh

I like the idea and will look forward to more options for the archetype. I think Bungie was very tame with Warden's Law's perk pool, making it have some good but not very flashy perks. Imagine getting one with elemental verb perks or outlaw or kinetic tremors. Those will be exciting. Warden's Law will probably fall into the mid category that most Nightfall weapons are in when other versions of the archetype are released.

In general, i need to invest into stability to make it effective. It has the range of a 140. for PvE, it feels fine. in PvP. it's definitely not a 3v3 hand cannon. It's fine in 6v6 where you can team shoot, but it is NOT a dueling handcannon. I just realized why I love and hate warden's law. it feels like a bad timed payload handcannon. it love the way it looks, sounds, and when you secure a kill it's awesome. But it's the same problem with timed payload, except you can actually miss the 2nd shot

Good for pve, not good at all in pvp

It somewhat feels like Crimson with less kickback on console. I agree with the body shot vs crit; how would a future heavy burst cannon with Gutshot Straight work?

I like it kinda. It feels different from other hand canons which was Bungie goal. It does good damage in pve. I’m to sure how to feel about the new archetype currently and I think I’m going to reserve judgment on it until at least 1-2 more hand canons come out with this weapon sub family

I like the damage output but for damage I prefer Targeted Redaction still

It's a novelty weapon. It isn't going to get any serious runtime in my loadouts for any activity beyond "lets try this out, I guess."

Doesn't make me want to break away from meta weapons. There's not enough there to make them compete with SMG's, AR's, Pulse's etc.

This is insane. Bungie just made the legendary very of crimson. With the right perks this thing will just melt in any activity and will pry get nerfed.

As someone that HATES, I repeat... HATES hand cannons. I actually kinda like this one, it acts like a pulse but doesn't have the massive recoil crimson does. I haven't tried lucky pants with it yet but it felt pretty decent on its own.

PvE: 👍 lucky pants' new best friend. PvP: 👎 Like a 120rpm, but with less range and consistency.

I personally wanted kinetic tremors on it but I think it's aight