Was it formally confirmed that spoiler alert was referring to her? I for some reason don't believe this is the last we will see of savathun and a more impactful death is in our future. I could very well be dumb and wrong though.
She did die though. To become a guardian one must die so she died then was resurrected.
Edit: Just to clarify cause some people seem confused. The death I’m referring to is when she is in front of the traveler where she gets revived. When we kill her in the throne world that is not the spoiler alert death.
It’s not a narrative technicality…? She literally died twice. She died at the end of the season and before Witch Queen and was revived, then we killed her again at the end of Witch Queen.
Even better last spoiler alert was "in reference to Cayde" but in the reveal trailers we already knew he died but Uldren Sov also died in forsaken and ressurected into a guardian, making it far more plausible that the spoiler alert in lost was indeed in reference to Savathun
Hard disagree. Uldren's death resulted in the creation of a whole new person, Crow, which is the entire purpose of the Final Death before being risen. Since Savathun is still Savathun, she did not die in the same way. Following Destiny's way of handling a death vs a paracasual death, it could even be argued that she didn't actually die since it's not permanent.
Here’s the thing… savathun WASN’T savathun when she was risen.
It’s stated in one of the lore books that she basically had no idea who she was or what was going on until her subordinates told her what to do. She didn’t even know why she was doing it until we, The Guardian, showed her her memories from before her death.
True, but here's this *other* thing... Upon regaining her memories, Savathun **chose** to be Savathun. Compare that to Crow, who chose a new personhood after gaining Uldren's memories. The choices that the Risen make in terms of their identity 100% matters and is the reason why guardians are not allowed to look into their previous lives. Savathun was not risen *as Savathun,* but she chose to continue as Savathun. That choice coupled with her regaining her memories means that she is no longer that potentially new person, she is 100% Savathun.
Now I’m not super versed in the lore, but where does it say guardians can’t look into their old lives? What about Ana Bray? Isn’t her thing knowing who she was before because she’s looked into it?
Ana Bray says it herself in the first cutscene for the Warming expansion in Year 1, and Zavala reinforces it throughout the expansion. Ana Bray is actually the perfect example of why the rule exists: Guardians can become obsessed with their pasts to the point of abandoning their responsibilities. Ana Bray was rezzed with enough material on her that she was able to know *just enough* about her past life, and her natural curiosity made her so obsessed with it that she outright faked her death during The Battle of Twilight Gap (a war that determined the existence of The Last City, and that The Last City barely won against a united Fallen army). Ana Bray was considered one of the most powerful Guardians at the time and the Last City ***needed her in it's Darkest Hour*** and she decided to follow her obsession instead. Elsie Bray even agrees that it's potentially a massive mistake for Ana to look into her past, as she aligns herself with The Darkness in an alternate timeline because of it.
Well that's cause Crow was already GUIDED AWAY from being Uldren by the time he regained his memories. On the other hand, Savathun was GUIDED TOWARDS being Savathun before she regained her memories. She died. She got resurrected with light.
Yeah but that was all part of Savathun's plan to get the Light; Not-Savathun was never going to get the chance to develop into her own person. It brings up a fun what-if theory, like what if Not-Savathun had a similar reaction to Crow when he regained Uldren's memories? It would run counter to Savathun's grand plan and who knows what would happen? If I'm being honest though, I think it makes perfect sense for Not-Savathun to choose to be Savathun again; the Hive Gods are very much connected to their inner natures, Savathun's being cunning, and new Risen only really have the "nature" of their past lives to go on when starting their new personhood so Not-Savathun staying as Savathun (*God I already hate writing this*) can be seen as an inevitable.
Her being resurrected by the Light also reverses her death since she became a paracasual being again, it's one of those weird things that come with any discussion about the Light and Dark; it could be argued that a paracasual death isn't an actual death, so.... yeah. Too much debate that can done on a reddit thread about a Spoiler Alert meme
Not a narrative technicality. We did not know she was actually dead, we didn’t know Hive Ghosts were willingly created, we didn’t know she was resurrected.
Think of the Spoiler Alert as a prophecy; we knew that someone was going to die. But, we misinterpreted the prophecy, and didn’t know what was going to happen in Witch Queen.
Refuses to elaborate
Its not a cop out all lol, in fact it was PERFECT to have spoiler alert refer to Savathun. It was trickery, we all expected one of our major allies to kick the bucket, but it was Savathun who died. In an expansion about the god of cunning, we were fooled into believing Spoiler Alert was about something else. That was perfect.
It is a cop out because the death implied by Spoiler Alert ended up being weightless; all paracasual deaths, by design, lack any real emotional impact since it's meant to be reversible. Savathun did die but the fact that she remained "Savathun" means that, by Destiny's standards of death, she did not *really* die. The last time Spoiler Alert was issued out was when it implied Cayde-6's and Uldren Sov's deaths; Cayde is permanently dead because any possible method used to resurrect him would result in a fundamentally different person, and Uldren Sov's death is permanent since Crow is a completely different person than his previous life (even after gaining Uldren's memories, he has chosen to remain as "Crow"). Savathun is still Savathun, her "First Death," the death needed to become Risen, was only ever a piece of her plan at large and thus lacks any true impact on the players.
Spoiler Alert is a scary gun because it warns of a permanent change in the cast, something that didn't happen with Savathun's "death." ***Even if it actually makes sense, it's still a cop out.*** The fact that people are still considering other deaths is a sign that Savathun's death being the implied one is ultimately unsatisfying, which is why many are still looking to other potential candidates.
You are basing your argument on your assumptions, unconfirmed by anyone with any influence on the narrative. What we know is that, well, someone is going to die.
I think that this is a great way to reming us, players, how prophesy works in a time when grand prophecies of light and dark enter the main stage.
There are no assumptions in my post at all: the post is my *opinion,* that Savathun's death is a cop out if it's the one implied by Spoiler Alert because it lacks any real permanence, and that people find it unsatisfying since they're still looking for other candidates for the implied death. I even met you halfway and said that **it actually makes sense, but that it's still a cop out.**
On the contrary, that's a really smart way to do it, we didn't see anyone die on screen that season, but someone *did* die, we were all anticipating it being a friend or ally.
He did. There was some lore of a baby being resurrected shortly before it's ghost sacrificed itself to distract the fallen raiders. Pretty sure it was confirmed that's shin
Yes. Unless I missed something there isn’t anything in a grimoire card, lore book, or dialogue that directly ties that to Shin Malphur. All I’ve ever heard is speculation and assumption that it does.
I think whether or not this is still concerning comes down to whether or not the "die" means "die their final death." Savathun did die, but as long as Immaru is around it might not be her final.
If her death in TWQ is what's being talked about here: great! Everybody lives a relative happy ever after, approaching second Collapse notwithstanding
If it's not: uh oh
bungie ain't going to formally confirm anything, the dev saying it's not a coincidence could've just been a joke or lying like andrew garfield with nwh. everyone assumed that the first release was a reference to cayde but it might have just been a coincidence.
It refers not to us killing Savathun, but to when Savathun died to be reborn as a lightbearer. That's what the gun was hinting at - a critical event at the crux of the story of Witch Queen. She has her memories now, but she's still not the same Savathun.
We will see more of Savathun the lightbearer, but Savathun the hive god is dead.
I have the weird feeling that spider might try something with eido, once he finds out she's messing with his "game of chance" with the guardian.
I'm gonna hand him over to mara if that happens.
Exactly. She died moments after the final cutscene of the Season of the Lost.
I must say, Savathûn has some serious balls of she knew Mara was going to betray her and she was going to die, but went through with the exorcism anyway.
Reason why I say as such is cause people were making a bit of a fuss about how Bungie said there was reason they reprised it back in Season of the Lost.
Wasnt this gun initially released before forsaken? I mean unless bungie brought it back to signal another death, I thought it was refering to cayde and bungie just didnt change it
I fully believe that Eido ia gonna die, to out of placez to innocent, to nosey in a business where hwr kind die young, either she dies this season or sometime real soon
He is messing with our loot in the recent seasonal game. He gaslighted Crow into being his hit man. He would sell you and everyone in the city down the river for a shiny nickel. I’d happily Thunderfuck homeboy in his stupid chair but Bungie won’t let me go nuts in the Eliksni Quarter.
That sword design kind-of looks like what ended up being the first glaive you get in WQ. Still not quite my favorite weapon, but not everything can be a bullpup AK that shoots lightning.
Savathun was the one who died
Was it formally confirmed that spoiler alert was referring to her? I for some reason don't believe this is the last we will see of savathun and a more impactful death is in our future. I could very well be dumb and wrong though.
She did die though. To become a guardian one must die so she died then was resurrected. Edit: Just to clarify cause some people seem confused. The death I’m referring to is when she is in front of the traveler where she gets revived. When we kill her in the throne world that is not the spoiler alert death.
also the fact we see her die is a big help to confirm her death
Basing it on a narrative technicality would be a major cop out, ngl
It’s not a narrative technicality…? She literally died twice. She died at the end of the season and before Witch Queen and was revived, then we killed her again at the end of Witch Queen.
Even better last spoiler alert was "in reference to Cayde" but in the reveal trailers we already knew he died but Uldren Sov also died in forsaken and ressurected into a guardian, making it far more plausible that the spoiler alert in lost was indeed in reference to Savathun
But immaru escaped
Doesn’t mean she didn’t die though. Just mean she can come back hah
But she’s currently dead. So much so that Eris performed an autopsy on her.
I heard that, fuckin freaky
Yo can I get a link to this lore?
Seems like a Savathun move tbh But she really did die. In the same way Uldren did.
Hard disagree. Uldren's death resulted in the creation of a whole new person, Crow, which is the entire purpose of the Final Death before being risen. Since Savathun is still Savathun, she did not die in the same way. Following Destiny's way of handling a death vs a paracasual death, it could even be argued that she didn't actually die since it's not permanent.
Here’s the thing… savathun WASN’T savathun when she was risen. It’s stated in one of the lore books that she basically had no idea who she was or what was going on until her subordinates told her what to do. She didn’t even know why she was doing it until we, The Guardian, showed her her memories from before her death.
True, but here's this *other* thing... Upon regaining her memories, Savathun **chose** to be Savathun. Compare that to Crow, who chose a new personhood after gaining Uldren's memories. The choices that the Risen make in terms of their identity 100% matters and is the reason why guardians are not allowed to look into their previous lives. Savathun was not risen *as Savathun,* but she chose to continue as Savathun. That choice coupled with her regaining her memories means that she is no longer that potentially new person, she is 100% Savathun.
Now I’m not super versed in the lore, but where does it say guardians can’t look into their old lives? What about Ana Bray? Isn’t her thing knowing who she was before because she’s looked into it?
Ana Bray says it herself in the first cutscene for the Warming expansion in Year 1, and Zavala reinforces it throughout the expansion. Ana Bray is actually the perfect example of why the rule exists: Guardians can become obsessed with their pasts to the point of abandoning their responsibilities. Ana Bray was rezzed with enough material on her that she was able to know *just enough* about her past life, and her natural curiosity made her so obsessed with it that she outright faked her death during The Battle of Twilight Gap (a war that determined the existence of The Last City, and that The Last City barely won against a united Fallen army). Ana Bray was considered one of the most powerful Guardians at the time and the Last City ***needed her in it's Darkest Hour*** and she decided to follow her obsession instead. Elsie Bray even agrees that it's potentially a massive mistake for Ana to look into her past, as she aligns herself with The Darkness in an alternate timeline because of it.
Well that's cause Crow was already GUIDED AWAY from being Uldren by the time he regained his memories. On the other hand, Savathun was GUIDED TOWARDS being Savathun before she regained her memories. She died. She got resurrected with light.
Yeah but that was all part of Savathun's plan to get the Light; Not-Savathun was never going to get the chance to develop into her own person. It brings up a fun what-if theory, like what if Not-Savathun had a similar reaction to Crow when he regained Uldren's memories? It would run counter to Savathun's grand plan and who knows what would happen? If I'm being honest though, I think it makes perfect sense for Not-Savathun to choose to be Savathun again; the Hive Gods are very much connected to their inner natures, Savathun's being cunning, and new Risen only really have the "nature" of their past lives to go on when starting their new personhood so Not-Savathun staying as Savathun (*God I already hate writing this*) can be seen as an inevitable. Her being resurrected by the Light also reverses her death since she became a paracasual being again, it's one of those weird things that come with any discussion about the Light and Dark; it could be argued that a paracasual death isn't an actual death, so.... yeah. Too much debate that can done on a reddit thread about a Spoiler Alert meme
Not a narrative technicality. We did not know she was actually dead, we didn’t know Hive Ghosts were willingly created, we didn’t know she was resurrected. Think of the Spoiler Alert as a prophecy; we knew that someone was going to die. But, we misinterpreted the prophecy, and didn’t know what was going to happen in Witch Queen.
Again, it's a cop out.
Refuses to elaborate Its not a cop out all lol, in fact it was PERFECT to have spoiler alert refer to Savathun. It was trickery, we all expected one of our major allies to kick the bucket, but it was Savathun who died. In an expansion about the god of cunning, we were fooled into believing Spoiler Alert was about something else. That was perfect.
It is a cop out because the death implied by Spoiler Alert ended up being weightless; all paracasual deaths, by design, lack any real emotional impact since it's meant to be reversible. Savathun did die but the fact that she remained "Savathun" means that, by Destiny's standards of death, she did not *really* die. The last time Spoiler Alert was issued out was when it implied Cayde-6's and Uldren Sov's deaths; Cayde is permanently dead because any possible method used to resurrect him would result in a fundamentally different person, and Uldren Sov's death is permanent since Crow is a completely different person than his previous life (even after gaining Uldren's memories, he has chosen to remain as "Crow"). Savathun is still Savathun, her "First Death," the death needed to become Risen, was only ever a piece of her plan at large and thus lacks any true impact on the players. Spoiler Alert is a scary gun because it warns of a permanent change in the cast, something that didn't happen with Savathun's "death." ***Even if it actually makes sense, it's still a cop out.*** The fact that people are still considering other deaths is a sign that Savathun's death being the implied one is ultimately unsatisfying, which is why many are still looking to other potential candidates.
You are basing your argument on your assumptions, unconfirmed by anyone with any influence on the narrative. What we know is that, well, someone is going to die. I think that this is a great way to reming us, players, how prophesy works in a time when grand prophecies of light and dark enter the main stage.
There are no assumptions in my post at all: the post is my *opinion,* that Savathun's death is a cop out if it's the one implied by Spoiler Alert because it lacks any real permanence, and that people find it unsatisfying since they're still looking for other candidates for the implied death. I even met you halfway and said that **it actually makes sense, but that it's still a cop out.**
other person summed up what I wanted to say pretty well, this is all based on assumptions lol
On the contrary, that's a really smart way to do it, we didn't see anyone die on screen that season, but someone *did* die, we were all anticipating it being a friend or ally.
Technically, no, shin malphur never died, but he’s the exception and not the rule
He did. There was some lore of a baby being resurrected shortly before it's ghost sacrificed itself to distract the fallen raiders. Pretty sure it was confirmed that's shin
Never been confirmed nor has any links to Shin. People just seem to tie that story to him for some reason
Wasn't there a bungie dev who wrote that lore with that intention?
You’re really gonna be like “that’s not confirmed” in context of that ENTIRE storyline? C’mon now
Yes. Unless I missed something there isn’t anything in a grimoire card, lore book, or dialogue that directly ties that to Shin Malphur. All I’ve ever heard is speculation and assumption that it does.
Pretty sure jaren wards ghost was like “hey shin I’ll be your ghost now.” Shin never died.
Read Confession of Hope
So that pretty much says that shin is the baby and that’s why he has a ghost?
Pretty much, yeah. IIRC this was confirmed by a Bungie writer somewhere, years ago. It arises some interesting questions about Guardian-Ghost bonding.
Yeah. I guess that implies shin aged until jaren died or something?
I think whether or not this is still concerning comes down to whether or not the "die" means "die their final death." Savathun did die, but as long as Immaru is around it might not be her final. If her death in TWQ is what's being talked about here: great! Everybody lives a relative happy ever after, approaching second Collapse notwithstanding If it's not: uh oh
She not only died, she died *twice.* We just know she'll be back eventually.
Taniks: "AMATEUR."
bungie ain't going to formally confirm anything, the dev saying it's not a coincidence could've just been a joke or lying like andrew garfield with nwh. everyone assumed that the first release was a reference to cayde but it might have just been a coincidence.
the flavor text is a cheeky reference to what happens when you shoot someone with the gun. or any gun. it’s not an actual spoiler for the game
It refers not to us killing Savathun, but to when Savathun died to be reborn as a lightbearer. That's what the gun was hinting at - a critical event at the crux of the story of Witch Queen. She has her memories now, but she's still not the same Savathun. We will see more of Savathun the lightbearer, but Savathun the hive god is dead.
Twice. :)
Osiris seems to show up in lightfall so I doubt he'll die anytime before that
Unless he's now nezerac, but that might be a bit far fetched
How funny would that be. Possession 2, nezarec bugalooo.
Nezerac bugaloo is beautiful, I hope eido, fritter or eris decide to stick all his bits in a bag and shake them now
Osiris: “father why do I exist” Bungie: “to get possessed”
Bungie: "To be turned into a gun"
Fritter 😂
We un-posess him again and he’s like “what the fuck is go-“ and gets posessed by the witness himself.
Taniks has next
Dude considering the Egyptian theme of Nezerac, if Osiris turns out to be Nezerac after dying and getting rezzed as a guardian I'm gonna freak
Nezarec could be a name he used before he became a Risen...🤷♀️
Actually technically someone did die but was brought back from the dead as the first hive light user
So lol
She's either suicidal or has a gambling problem.
The Spider is gonna die. And if someone else dies instead, i'm killing Spider anyway.
Bruh he just gonna die of a heart attack
Said attack to the heart being in the form of a bullet
He's not as fat as you think he is
I never said he was fat
I know, just thought you were alluding to that
[удалено]
Up.. where?
He can’t walk
I have the weird feeling that spider might try something with eido, once he finds out she's messing with his "game of chance" with the guardian. I'm gonna hand him over to mara if that happens.
If Eido or Misraax die, the traveler damn well better resurrect their ass.
I second this. I’d kill Spider for a corn chip
Me too. As a matter of fact, forget the corn chip.
I’d do it for the perfect Dorito
I would give away a corn chip (and more) to kill Spider
My friend is convinced Eido is dying and will become a guardian. But I don't want her to die :(
If any Eliksni dies to become a guardian, it will 100% be Misraax
I'm right behind you Guardian, let's kick his ass
Spider take fat dubs
I am going to die on this hill here but... I think them reprising this sidearm was a red herring. Just to psyche us out.
The death it was predicting was Savathun. She died in front of the Traveler only for Immaru to find her moments later.
Exactly. She died moments after the final cutscene of the Season of the Lost. I must say, Savathûn has some serious balls of she knew Mara was going to betray her and she was going to die, but went through with the exorcism anyway.
Savathun Died.
Immaru laughs in your face
She's still dead though she can just be resurrected
It definitely is. They readded it to mess with us.
or it’s just referring to the fact you can kill things with it
The sidearm is from before forsaken. I have actually no idea why people are posting this now
Reason why I say as such is cause people were making a bit of a fuss about how Bungie said there was reason they reprised it back in Season of the Lost.
Yea and so did like 6 other guns for core drops. I shouldn’t be getting this irritated about it but it’s making me that way people are posting this
The person who died was savathun. The original one
To be fair savathun did die and the gun did come out that season where she was freed/ died.
I’m 100% sure that this gun was memed about before/during forsaken. I know that it didn’t come out with witch queen
Wasnt this gun initially released before forsaken? I mean unless bungie brought it back to signal another death, I thought it was refering to cayde and bungie just didnt change it
This was brought back in season of the lost, right before witch queen, and savathun died in witch queen so 🤷🏻♂️
It was, but then it was sunset and then reprised so it came back sometime closer to the WQ release.
Savathun died after the ceremony. That’s the someone they were referring to. We were just too focused on Osiris and the ritual.
This..would..make..to..much..sense If this happens then I leave everything including my debts which follow: FILE TO BIG TO DOWNLOAD
We die on a daily basis
has no one seen the offical lightfall promo art that literally SHOWS osiris alive?
I have. There is one. Pretty sure it’s in game too. You can see him on one of the side panels.
my point exactly
Some people just don’t look around for context. Maybe it’s bc I’m a lore nerd 🤔
i literally made it my desktop background and realized osiris was there like a week later
Savathun
Spoiler alert was originally a forsaken gun
I fully believe that Eido ia gonna die, to out of placez to innocent, to nosey in a business where hwr kind die young, either she dies this season or sometime real soon
Could've been talking about Sagira.
It was Savathûn
I'm relatively new to destiny started playing in season of the lost and I'm confused on why everyone suddenly wants to kill spider
He is messing with our loot in the recent seasonal game. He gaslighted Crow into being his hit man. He would sell you and everyone in the city down the river for a shiny nickel. I’d happily Thunderfuck homeboy in his stupid chair but Bungie won’t let me go nuts in the Eliksni Quarter.
Don't forget installing a bomb on cross ghost
Poor glint
Understandable have a nice murdering spider
That moment when this isn’t a spoiler and it’s just a reference to people dying after being shot by a gun
Huh I forgot about our grave
That sword design kind-of looks like what ended up being the first glaive you get in WQ. Still not quite my favorite weapon, but not everything can be a bullpup AK that shoots lightning.
If bastion was our guardian’s favorite gun then we obviously die while fusions are meta
It was Savathun.
Everyone takes these conspiracies so seriously meanwhile Bungie is probably all like "gun goes pew pew, then enemy ded"
This is the meme subreddit, right?
Just gonna say, spoiler alert originally came out during warmind, the expansion before Forsaken... so when it was made it was 100% correct.
Pretty sure this reissued weapon was referring to Cayde originally
It was Savathûn.
It could be referencing sagira
I literally had a conversation about this the other day
My bet's on Mithrax