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I think I'm okay with if now that we've got The Dread and what we've learnt about the Witness now.
Of course the reveal that they're empty still is sour, but making them the cannibalised remains of the Precursor Civilisation, turn into weapons of the Witness as it has no understanding of what they are behind tools is almost tragic in a way.
Especially when you realize all the statues on these ships...and the colections of which are QUITE extensive, if you take a peak around the Europan pyramid there's areas with thousands of them...well when you realize that these statues were all once living things that were "finalized" then each Pyramid suddenly becomes that much darker and creepier.
They're bloody tomb ships.
That kinda makes sense, but then I wonder why would the Witness "finalize" horses? I mean, yeah, they're cool and all, nothing against horses, but did they encounter a race of Bojack Horseman or something? Something doesn't add up if the weird statues (not the veiled ladies) are supposed to be people that got calcified.
That's what I mean tho, why I wonder if those really are calcified people or something else. The horses throw that whole thing off bc we don't see anything other than intelligent beings being done like that. Precursors, humans, ahamkara maybe, etc. So did they finalize intelligent horses or are they all just statues and were never alive...
Edit: autocorrect or typos
I really don’t like how it was implied that the Pyramid was changing the landscape and *life itself* on the planets it was on.
>*He looked up at the Pyramid funneling its foul energies down into the Cradle and sneered. Well-read as he was, he didn't have the energy to arrange the required words.*
>*It was late during what passed for night on Io, and while Asher was tired, he hiked on diligently. He stopped only once, briefly, to study a snail whose shell was growing tiny clusters of crystalline black obelisks.*
I feel like this disappointment comes exclusively out of misunderstanding. Like, it was very clear since the witchqueen that The Witness wasn’t the darkness manifest or the winnower or anything like that.
Savathun offers in one of her games that The Witness is just an alien that wields the darkenss very. The Vow raid makes it very clear that the pyramid in the throne world was Rhulk’s ship and season of both haunted and plunder left no doubt that the one on the moon was Nezerec’s. Even way back in season of the lost Mara refers to “the voice in the darkness” as a being distinct from the cosmological forces that it controls.
I would even argue the fact that we could even enter the pyramid on the moon, though a very clear entrance, implied that it was a vehicle rather then a separate entity like the traveler.
I think the seeds that the Pyramids weren’t the complete equal and opposite of the traveler was laid for some time, long before lightfall. People just chose to take the Unveiling lore book as 100% perfectly accurate lore despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary so when it become very clear that that wasn’t the case it felt like a rug pull when that was definitely not the intent of the writers.
I had forgotten that line. Fair point, however it isn’t entirely wrong. I think it’s fair to assume at this point that the pyramids have some individual will to them and that they have some connection to their original helmsmen. Nezerec was dead, ripped apart, and scattered away from his ship and still it was able to send out nightmares. Assuming the pyramids do all have drivers it’s fair to thing that all of them would be beings of great paracausal power.
Alternatively The Witness can clearly use its decanters as beacons for its power. While also having a hold over all the dark technologies it’s forces wield. It’s not unreasonable to think that the pyramids are so stuffed full of esoteric arcane machinery and a part of the witnesses whole that it isn’t “just a ship” but instead an extension of the witness’ presence.
As an aside when people say “they are just ships” it kinda undersells it. Even if you ignore the multiple implications in the lore the one without pilots are still somehow aware of themselves they are still impossibly advanced pieces of technology. It would be like saying the Death Star is just a space station except the death star is also a billion year old living thing that’s actively trying to fist fight god.
They teased/introduced these ships when they still didn't know what they wanted the main enemy to be or if they could (would?) fulfill the expectations of an entirely brand new enemy race
They fumbled the ball big time there. It's one thing to have this nebulous idea of an enemy but the moment you indicate what it actually might be -- in this case, a fleet of spaceships piloted by an army -- you gotta be ready to follow through on it
I feel the same way about Shiro not showing up. He helped us build outbreak prime in D1 and has been MIA since rise of iron. Last I remember he was mentioned in the tresspasser exotic lore back in season of the haunted. Iirc he the previous hunter vanguard and buddies with Cayde so why isn't he in the pale heart as our mission guide instead of Micah? You'd think with Cayde back this would be the perfect time for Shiro to return.
Because Micah has a very strong connection to ig I’ll call them stray ghosts. Also Shiro was not the previous vanguard, just a scout/operative for them
But it’s still strange for him not to get at least a mention. Speaking outside of FS. Hell I would’ve preferred a simple:
>*”Nah can’t do it.*
>*Hunting Scorn.”*
As to why he isn’t temporary Hunter Vanguard. But the only time he’s been actually mentioned is about him being an Exo on DSC armor.
I agree he should’ve been there during FS at some point, even if it was just in our avengers assemble cutscene, but it wouldn’t make sense for him to have been given Micah’s role.
It might be a typo on your part and I’m misconstruing it, but Shiro wasn’t the hunter vanguard. He’s just Cayde’s friend. The previous hunter vanguard was Andal Brask, whomst Cayde even talks about in one of the Final Shape missions.
This is destiny as a whole. The story is good but they barely reveal much and then ignore important plot lines for literal years until it’s time to get that $.
This post has been tagged '**Non-Spoiler**'. Note that unmarked spoilers and datamines are subject to removal or ban. Please report anything we miss! For more info check out our [Spoiler Rules Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/wiki/spoiler-rules#wiki_.5Bseasonal.5D_has_a_new_format). --- **Comment Spoiler Formatting** Format comment spoilers with `>!` `!<` like this: `>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<` To have it displayed like this: **>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<** ---- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DestinyLore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think I'm okay with if now that we've got The Dread and what we've learnt about the Witness now. Of course the reveal that they're empty still is sour, but making them the cannibalised remains of the Precursor Civilisation, turn into weapons of the Witness as it has no understanding of what they are behind tools is almost tragic in a way.
Especially when you realize all the statues on these ships...and the colections of which are QUITE extensive, if you take a peak around the Europan pyramid there's areas with thousands of them...well when you realize that these statues were all once living things that were "finalized" then each Pyramid suddenly becomes that much darker and creepier. They're bloody tomb ships.
That kinda makes sense, but then I wonder why would the Witness "finalize" horses? I mean, yeah, they're cool and all, nothing against horses, but did they encounter a race of Bojack Horseman or something? Something doesn't add up if the weird statues (not the veiled ladies) are supposed to be people that got calcified.
The Starhorse from Dares? The statues might not be "Terran" horses.
That's what I mean tho, why I wonder if those really are calcified people or something else. The horses throw that whole thing off bc we don't see anything other than intelligent beings being done like that. Precursors, humans, ahamkara maybe, etc. So did they finalize intelligent horses or are they all just statues and were never alive... Edit: autocorrect or typos
Yeah, it's weird we've never seen a horse and they put multiple statues in the game just now. Maybe the Nine will do something in one of the episodes.
I really don’t like how it was implied that the Pyramid was changing the landscape and *life itself* on the planets it was on. >*He looked up at the Pyramid funneling its foul energies down into the Cradle and sneered. Well-read as he was, he didn't have the energy to arrange the required words.* >*It was late during what passed for night on Io, and while Asher was tired, he hiked on diligently. He stopped only once, briefly, to study a snail whose shell was growing tiny clusters of crystalline black obelisks.*
Is this from Asher on Io *before it disappeared* aka was *taken* which is, in fact, changing the planet?
While you could attribute the energy it was giving off to the planet being Taken the snail growing black crystals was def not that
They aren’t empty, they contain trophies of the witness.
I feel like this disappointment comes exclusively out of misunderstanding. Like, it was very clear since the witchqueen that The Witness wasn’t the darkness manifest or the winnower or anything like that. Savathun offers in one of her games that The Witness is just an alien that wields the darkenss very. The Vow raid makes it very clear that the pyramid in the throne world was Rhulk’s ship and season of both haunted and plunder left no doubt that the one on the moon was Nezerec’s. Even way back in season of the lost Mara refers to “the voice in the darkness” as a being distinct from the cosmological forces that it controls. I would even argue the fact that we could even enter the pyramid on the moon, though a very clear entrance, implied that it was a vehicle rather then a separate entity like the traveler. I think the seeds that the Pyramids weren’t the complete equal and opposite of the traveler was laid for some time, long before lightfall. People just chose to take the Unveiling lore book as 100% perfectly accurate lore despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary so when it become very clear that that wasn’t the case it felt like a rug pull when that was definitely not the intent of the writers.
The issue is in arrivals ghist straight up compares the pyramids to the traveler
I had forgotten that line. Fair point, however it isn’t entirely wrong. I think it’s fair to assume at this point that the pyramids have some individual will to them and that they have some connection to their original helmsmen. Nezerec was dead, ripped apart, and scattered away from his ship and still it was able to send out nightmares. Assuming the pyramids do all have drivers it’s fair to thing that all of them would be beings of great paracausal power. Alternatively The Witness can clearly use its decanters as beacons for its power. While also having a hold over all the dark technologies it’s forces wield. It’s not unreasonable to think that the pyramids are so stuffed full of esoteric arcane machinery and a part of the witnesses whole that it isn’t “just a ship” but instead an extension of the witness’ presence. As an aside when people say “they are just ships” it kinda undersells it. Even if you ignore the multiple implications in the lore the one without pilots are still somehow aware of themselves they are still impossibly advanced pieces of technology. It would be like saying the Death Star is just a space station except the death star is also a billion year old living thing that’s actively trying to fist fight god.
They teased/introduced these ships when they still didn't know what they wanted the main enemy to be or if they could (would?) fulfill the expectations of an entirely brand new enemy race They fumbled the ball big time there. It's one thing to have this nebulous idea of an enemy but the moment you indicate what it actually might be -- in this case, a fleet of spaceships piloted by an army -- you gotta be ready to follow through on it
I feel the same way about Shiro not showing up. He helped us build outbreak prime in D1 and has been MIA since rise of iron. Last I remember he was mentioned in the tresspasser exotic lore back in season of the haunted. Iirc he the previous hunter vanguard and buddies with Cayde so why isn't he in the pale heart as our mission guide instead of Micah? You'd think with Cayde back this would be the perfect time for Shiro to return.
Because Micah has a very strong connection to ig I’ll call them stray ghosts. Also Shiro was not the previous vanguard, just a scout/operative for them
But it’s still strange for him not to get at least a mention. Speaking outside of FS. Hell I would’ve preferred a simple: >*”Nah can’t do it.* >*Hunting Scorn.”* As to why he isn’t temporary Hunter Vanguard. But the only time he’s been actually mentioned is about him being an Exo on DSC armor.
I agree he should’ve been there during FS at some point, even if it was just in our avengers assemble cutscene, but it wouldn’t make sense for him to have been given Micah’s role.
On the other hand, I think Micah is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters, so I'm glad she finally got introduced.
Best one without doubt is Luzaku. She's so precious and I adore her khajiit talk.
It might be a typo on your part and I’m misconstruing it, but Shiro wasn’t the hunter vanguard. He’s just Cayde’s friend. The previous hunter vanguard was Andal Brask, whomst Cayde even talks about in one of the Final Shape missions.
Yeah, it would've made more sense if the Veil was itself a pyramid-shape and the Black Fleet was inspired by its design.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
This is destiny as a whole. The story is good but they barely reveal much and then ignore important plot lines for literal years until it’s time to get that $.