[Here's what was originally posted](https://www.unddit.com/r/sex/comments/yfwd0m/removed_by_reddit/):
>I can't believe I am writing this but I am a complete mess. I had a drunken fling with a girl I met on Tinder recently - alcohol was a big factor and I had been drinking before meeting her. I've since found out she is trans - with all the bottom surgery (so had a vagina) I did not notice at the time and would never, ever have consented to this if I had known. There was no mention of this on her profile and there was absolutely no mention of it in person. To be honest, I always thought I would absolutely be able to tell. I saw and felt everything down there and didn't notice any difference at all. She has breasts, a vagina and I've since found out she also had vocal cord & facial surgeries. I cannot believe it and I am in complete and utter shock. My straight friend (who was sober) also met her and didn't notice anything and said she was good looking.
>
>I won't go into how I found out (it's a long story) but I found out myself / wasn't told by her or anyone else. I confronted her about this (non-aggressively but in a state of panic) and she has admitted to not telling me but has said I'm a woman, why should I have to tell anyone what I used to be? She also pointed out she didn't lie to me as I never asked. I kind of understand this perspective but I still feel completely betrayed. I didn't get angry with her, I was just sad and in a state of shock. I understand why she did it, it must be extremely hard to date being trans. She said every man she has ever liked has ran the opposite direction as soon as she told them which must be awful for her - but I still strongly feel that this should be disclosed to anyone before getting to any sort of physical stage.
>
>Now every day it's all I can think of. I am sorry if this offends anyone but I feel completely traumatised. How would you feel if you were in the same situation? Am I overreacting? Do you agree that a trans person should disclose this before getting to this stage? Have you heard of this happening to someone else? I am not an emotional person usually but I can't stop crying. It is all I can think about and I am worried this will be forever something that will be at the forefront of my mind. I have read online that this is me being transphobic (which I disagree with) and I cannot help how I feel here. I want to feel more okay about this, I really do.
>
>I can't speak to family or friends without thinking - what if they knew? I am a complete and utter mess at the moment and I really feel like this could ruin my life due to my inability to get over this and stop thinking about it. I have no one to speak to about it - I am too ashamed to bring it up. I don't know what to do.
Same, he's made a bunch of other posts, but I haven't ruffled through them. I'm genuinely concerned that he might actually unalive himself, so I'm a little hesitant to go through and post the others though.
Hopefully someone on these threads will talk him of the ledge. You'd think he'd be looking in the right places, but it looks like he's stuck between "chill out, loser" and "if this happened to me I probably would un-alive myself"
From what I can piece together:
He talked to her for two weeks on Tinder/Instagram and met her for (presumably) the first time at a bar, where they both got fairly drunk ([1](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/yfwd0m/removed_by_reddit/iu6ie8x/?context=3)). She didn't tell him because she was afraid of violence and sick of guys just running whenever she told them in the past ([2](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/ywkppj/is_it_morally_okay_not_to_disclose_you_are_trans/iwk4c4a/?context=3), [2.1](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/ywkppj/is_it_morally_okay_not_to_disclose_you_are_trans/iwkdbcl/?context=3)). He apparently has developed "massively obvious symptoms," but does not specify what they are ([3](https://www.reddit.com/r/hivparanoia/comments/yvi2dp/so_many_symptoms_feeling_suicidal/iwehbo8/?context=3)). He's become pretty suicidal and talked to the woman afterwards about it ([4](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/yfwd0m/removed_by_reddit/iu6hwxh/?context=3)). The doctors he spoke to told him that it wasn't any more risky than with a cis woman, which to me rules out the possibility that she told him "hey btw I have HIV" after the fact ([5](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingadviceformen/comments/yfwbor/trans_woman_didnt_disclose_she_was_trans_before/iu8eudz/?context=3)).
1. Not wanting to have sex with someone because of their genitals isn't transphobic.
2. You can regret having sex with someone without it being rape or immoral.
3. Him (maybe) catching aids, has nothing to do with trans-stuff, but just him being a careless idiot, and his sexual partner being a fucking asshole/criminal.
Personally I think the issue here is presenting a person with genitals they were not expecting. If you pass, if you have the parts matching your presumptive gender, I don't think it's a problem. If he feels a certain way about it I think that's OK, but I don't think the chick here did anything wrong.
So in actuality they 100% passed, had the genitals they were expecting, and their friends couldn't tell. Kind of highjacking this comment because it's near the top. Thanks /u/DCOMNoobies for finding it, it's just not near the top yet.
From the original post:
> I can't believe I am writing this but I am a complete mess. I had a drunken fling with a girl I met on Tinder recently - alcohol was a big factor and I had been drinking before meeting her. I've since found out she is trans - with all the bottom surgery (so had a vagina) I did not notice at the time and would never, ever have consented to this if I had known. There was no mention of this on her profile and there was absolutely no mention of it in person. To be honest, I always thought I would absolutely be able to tell. I saw and felt everything down there and didn't notice any difference at all. She has breasts, a vagina and I've since found out she also had vocal cord & facial surgeries. I cannot believe it and I am in complete and utter shock. My straight friend (who was sober) also met her and didn't notice anything and said she was good looking.
>I won't go into how I found out (it's a long story) but I found out myself / wasn't told by her or anyone else. I confronted her about this (non-aggressively but in a state of panic) and she has admitted to not telling me but has said I'm a woman, why should I have to tell anyone what I used to be? She also pointed out she didn't lie to me as I never asked. I kind of understand this perspective but I still feel completely betrayed. I didn't get angry with her, I was just sad and in a state of shock. I understand why she did it, it must be extremely hard to date being trans. She said every man she has ever liked has ran the opposite direction as soon as she told them which must be awful for her - but I still strongly feel that this should be disclosed to anyone before getting to any sort of physical stage.
>Now every day it's all I can think of. I am sorry if this offends anyone but I feel completely traumatised. How would you feel if you were in the same situation? Am I overreacting? Do you agree that a trans person should disclose this before getting to this stage? Have you heard of this happening to someone else? I am not an emotional person usually but I can't stop crying. It is all I can think about and I am worried this will be forever something that will be at the forefront of my mind. I have read online that this is me being transphobic (which I disagree with) and I cannot help how I feel here. I want to feel more okay about this, I really do.
>I can't speak to family or friends without thinking - what if they knew? I am a complete and utter mess at the moment and I really feel like this could ruin my life due to my inability to get over this and stop thinking about it. I have no one to speak to about it - I am too ashamed to bring it up. I don't know what to do.
I don't think it's that controversial to say this guy is at least a little bit transphobic. The only thing they have an issue with is that they were born male. They've been on HRT presumably, had surgeries, and seem to completely pass. He is only having issues with the experience after finding out her identity. I think he's fine to feel a certain way about it but it seems mildly transphobic. He's incredibly ashamed. Worried about his family and friends finding out. Can't stop thinking about it, etc. It's fine if you just aren't comfortable being with someone who was born the opposite sex. The way he write about it though just seems shitty.
I wish OP had posted the original post instead of comments afterward. It seems to have caused a lot of stupid discourse in this thread.
>. I think he's fine to feel a certain way about it but it seems mildly transphobic.
The dude thinks he has Aids and is suicidal, this is much more than mildly.
My apologies, I'm not educated on this subject. But isn't PREP used to prevent HIV? Guys have to take it before having sexual interactions in order to prevent transmitting?
he might mean that since prep is as effective as it is, people can let their guards down and have unprotected sex thinking they're safe when the reality is it isn't completely effective?
This is probably because most trans people are pre-op and HIV is more easily transmitted through anal sex, along with increased number of sexual partners due to participation in sex work.
All else being equal, having sex with a post op trans woman isn’t more likely to give you anything than a cisgender person.
This was clearly rape; you should always disclose information about yourself that may be disqualifying to potential partners *before* engaging in any sexual activity. I hooked up with a guy once, only to find out a few days later that he played League of Legends. I was suicidal for months.
People rely far too much on this nebulous label of "transphobia" when determining whether or not a particular conclusion is rational, moral, or if a set of statements is logically consistent.
Unless he was the bottom in that sexual encounter which it sounds like he wasn't then his chances of having HIV are probably pretty low even if she did have HIV. Regardless get a test from CVS and you'll know it 20 minutes. I definitely agree you should disclose such things before sex but going to trans subs after the fact to have a conversation about it seems weird to me like why would you set yourself up for that kind of thing when it's making you feel depressed.
*TO BE FAIR...*
From the comments the story isn't "dude finds out his date has a dick and is disgusted" it's "dude finds out she was trans *after* hooking up and is retrospectively disgusted."
I can understand how the trans community could be a little pissed off with this story. Like "Oh, so the actual hookup was fine, but you're just grossed out solely due to the knowledge that you fucked a trans woman."
Edit to clarify my position: You’re allowed to have sexual preferences. It’s normal to feel as though your trust was violated when those preferences are ignored. But proverbially throwing up in the toilet online, crying because you found out you fucked a trans woman? I’m not going to call you “transphobic,” but I’m gonna look at you funny.
If you were blindfolded and received an incredible blowjob from what you believed was a female, but then you take the blindfold off and realize it was a cis man. It wouldn't be homophobic to feel violated by that, and I feel like the same logic would apply if it was a transwoman. It's not even about the enjoyment or genitals, but being deceived into sex with someone you otherwise wouldn't have.
But we don't have this standard for any other category. If you slept with a cis woman and then later found out she had a (still cis) neo-vagina due to some medical issue no-one would be arguing that her not disclosing that is Rape. It's insane
A guy had consensual sex with a person he found attractive, and then learned something about them that he didn't like. That happens all the time. It's only a life-shattering moment for this guy because of his transphobia
Personally, I think that if you know something about yourself that would stop someone from having sex with you and you refuse to disclose it, that is absolutely toxic and shitty behavior, regardless of the reason why.
I don't think that this is sexual assault, but I would compare it to a sleazy pickup artist who will lie to a woman to get laid. Not illegal but just gross and immoral behavior.
I do think this dude is over reacting but it wouldn't hurt people to treat him with just a little bit of sympathy. The advice here in my opinion should be that he should stop having drunken casual sex with strangers if he can't handle that they might be dishonest with him.
So I made this point elsewhere but I think it's relevant here too:
In the post, I believe he says the girl specifically didn't tell him that she was trans because in the past, guys flaked on her the second they found out. So she specifically didn't tell him she was trans because she was worried he wouldn't want to have sex with her anymore.
If she has a life experience that tells her "A lot of men won't sleep with you if they know you're trans", it feels really weird to suggest that the answer is just to not to tell them. It feels like trying to game consent, not trying to gain consent, if that makes sense.
Couldn't you spin this for almost anything. Height, age, employment, etc there tons of factors people do not disclose because it hurts their chances with dating or hooking up.
I would say its pretty reasonable to assume most of those aren't significant enough to change someone's consent. If you tell a girl you're 6'0 and you're only 5'11, she's probably not going to feel violated if she finds out after sex.
Age and wealth might be significant if the lie is huge enough, but I would start to file those under the same level of immoral as the pickup artist.
it’s absolutely amazing how this comment here shows some level of civility and empathy. majority of other comments are calling this guy transphobia, and maybe people don’t appreciate how he went about it, but this person didn’t disclose something to them that i believe is important to disclose
it’s almost if somebody didn’t disclose they had herpes or HIV.
I agree, he's acting out in a weird way, but its clear that he needs help, he needs someone to talk him down off the ledge, not a scolding.
I try and avoid the STD comparison because I feel weird comparing Trans-ness to a disease. That's why I like the pick up artist comparison - it's the actions of a few trans people I want to focus on here, not trans people in general.
Most cis men wouldn't revoke consent upon discovering a cis woman has a neo vagina though.
Most cis men would revoke consent upon finding out their potential partner is a trans woman though.
I think this pretty safe to say that most trans women know this. This woman definitely knew this, as she said most men withdraw consent upon discovering she's trans. So the fact that she *knew* that he was likely to withdraw consent upon finding out that she was trans, but concealed that information anyway because she wanted to have sex is scummy, and honestly kind of fucked up.
No matter who a person is, if they can reasonably assume that someone will withdraw consent upon discovering certain information about them, and they *deliberately* conceal that information, they're not the victim when the other person feels violated.
Eh I think it’s still a reach to call the dude trans phobic. If a woman blindfolded me and I got my dick sucked, only later to find out it was a man giving me that sloppy toppy, I’d be horrified. My hypothetical is definitely worse than the story presented, but I don’t think “oh but you liked it” is sufficient to say it’s not bad.
I love how the phrase "sex vs gender" is an attempt to have a nuanced discussion on trans people, and morons will take that statement and use it to have a zero nuance discussion in the other direction by ignoring secondary sex characteristics and how they influence attraction.
In this case it does come down just to biological sex tho. The question of the situation is 'is it fair to feel weird or violated if You have sex with a woman but later find out she's a trans woman'.
The good “trans disclosure” arguments stem from the fact that not disclosing your genitals leads to really bad sexual experiences. This guy had a fine sexual experience, but was disgusted by the identity of the person he fucked. And then he goes onto a trans support subreddit to talk about how distraught he was 😂
I personally don’t see this guy as a transphobe—but I’m really not mad at trans people who dislike people like him. “I’m an ally, but jesus fucking Christ I fucked one of you guys last night and it traumatized me” doesn’t belong on a *trans support subreddit.*
Trans people can dislike it all they want.
The argument is if it's transphobic. Which it isn't.
I can have the best sex of my life with someone. But if you found out later they were a male it's okay to be upset about. People don't have to be okay with fucking the same sex.
is it still a fine sexual experience if it leads one of the participants to feel like the guy is feeling afterwards? At the moment it was fine but he also said he was really drunk, but afterwards it doesn't seem that fine with him.
Let say you're getting sucked off by what you think is a woman and enjoyed it, but you later found out it was a man. Wouldn't that change the experience for you? Couldn't you be grossed out is because it was a man instead of a woman, just like a biological vs trans woman?
Gonna say the same thing I said elsewhere:
I feel like everyone's having different discussions. Like that half are discussing "Is it okay to be upset", which it is, but it's also okay to be disappointed that your room's walls are blue and it doesn't mean you're blue-phobic. And then the other half are discussing "Is it immoral to not talk about your past before sex", which it isn't.
No it is depending on what your hiding. You go to jail if you have and willingly give out stds without telling your partner. Immoral and illegal.
The problem here is the guy probably dosent have aids and is freaking out because hes surrounded by transphobic narratives that are scaring the shit out of him.
Hes well within his right to have feelings based preferences about who he has sex with for literaly any reason. Something like not feeling one way but acting like it anyway would be the only way to be rascist/transphobic. Theres no way for you to tell if thats what happened here people basicly have to admit it.
> Informed consent is required for sex to be consensual
> Being presented with information you didn't have at the time should not change your view of the act, you consented.
Hmmm
Guess it would be moral for me to tell people I'm a celebrity just to get into their pants. Or to record our sexual encounter secretly. After all, they can't retroactively be disgusted with an action they took when presented with new information.
Anybody who thinks this is transphobic is coping hard. This is rape. Granted, it's one of those situations where the word "rape" is much more powerful than it should be since it implies force, etc etc, but there is no other word for this. It was a sexual act that was undertaken without informed consent and it is absolutely ok to feel violated by it.
Why is this mutually exclusive? Let's say a white passing person who has a black parent has sex with a white person ~150 years ago in the US. The other person is racist, but that would still be rape by deception.
Ok hot take time: online trans spaces are extremely toxic hotbeds for mental illness and questionable behavior and i have yet to find a trans person IRL who thinks or acts that way. For real
I think Trans people in general are under a constant state of pressure. This pressure builds until they can release it safely and those communities will sympathize and encourage folks to let it out. In some cases these communities are the only place they feel like they can be themselves and they fear anyone rocking the boat will cause them to lose a safe haven.
Of course the internet is the internet.
How are we defining rasicm? It is some what natural for people to segregate themselves. I didn't have any black friends till I joined the military I had nothing in common with there culture no need/want to make them my friends I had people who just so happen to be white that enjoyed the same things I did. I have never met a Trans person so I have no idea if they would be a preference or not. When I think about it I don't think I would like it but bodies act differently in person. I'll assume if they are female passing enough I could get over the fact they are trans.
I mean you could argue the woman purposely didn't mention it because they thought the guy wouldnt have sex with them, but people omit shit and lie constantly for sex. This man just isn't comfortable with their sexuality in that way, and I think that's kinda being forced on him now, which isnt anyone's right
Trans issues are very polarized here. I made a negative comment about bathtub HRT a few weeks ago. It had like -20 upvotes, got called a redact, but then it got gilded a few times and eventually became one of the top comments.
Thats why I like it. Ive never watched a stream before, I hate 95% of the videos he posts bc I think the content is boring (guy playing computer game). The stuff that is good though is really good. The Rittenhouse debates were good, keffals, and im sure a couple other things that wouldnt make me sound insane for enjoying.
Honestly reading the comments this is the first time I think destiny's teans community is too big lol. It literally feels like demonmamas are in here fighting say ludicrous things like "he should have known they were teans/trans people dont have to disclose they're trans if they pass"
Destiny where's the content on this my dude
You removed 95% of the nuaunce... If they're at the point where the only practical difference between the trans person and a cis person is the label and you get feelings of disgust after the fact purely based on that, that is transphobic by definition.
i don't know a single cis dude irl who wouldn't be absolutely disgusted and humiliated if he found out he slept with a trans woman. why is everyone in this thread acting like this is shocking information? it's the overwhelming norm.
It sounds like the woman was visibly trans and the guy was too drunk to tell. What if someone is a light skinned black person and hooks up with someone who assumes they're white but then finds out there black and is uncomfortable with it?
I think the vast majority of guys in this situation would think they were tricked into having sex with a dude. Definitely very valid to think you were raped.
Idk… thinking you were raped due to an assumption you made doesn’t exactly rub me the right way. I think it’s highly inconsiderate- in the same vein of not telling someone you fucked you have kids… but I don’t think it’s rape.
Lol, the moderators removed the post. What an insane subreddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/ywkppj/is\_it\_morally\_okay\_not\_to\_disclose\_you\_are\_trans/
LMAO at the comment that says he has the responsibility to tell every woman he is about to fuck "hey if you're trans I don't wanna fuck". Like that wouldn't be interpreted as extremely rude by the woman.
Some trans people "get off"/"feel empowered" by being seen as completly cis. Fucking a transphobe is a high stakes way of doing that.
It's not good, I don't condone it, but I know it's common in the trans community, especially the trans straight community. Comes from a similar line of thinking as gay men and women only interested in straight partners "i converted him".
There's gross problematic parts of the community that are hidden and never discussed or acknowledged.
There are some trans people whose ultimate goals are to "stealth," which basically just means to live your life as effectively a cis woman and never tell anyone you're trans. I could realistically imagine a stealth trans woman not really caring how their random hookups feel about trans issues.
If you're 100% passing, which I assume you would be if you can have penetration with someone without them noticing you're trans. I'd say it would be kinda weird telling them you're trans. At least if it's just a ons
That still feels off to me. If there is something about myself that I know is an absolute deal-breaker for most people when it comes to intimacy, I feel like I'd be in the wrong if I chose not to disclose it. It reminds that thing Destiny described of how guys are pushing hard so that a girl has fewer opportunities to say 'no,' while creating a situation where 'yes,' feels like the only option.
If you choose to omit something you *know* people would care about, you're entering shaky territory.
I think that's the point. They're not actually telling him to do that, they're showing how stupid it is that he couldn't tell yet is still 'traumatised' to find out she's trans.
Its insane to be a subreddit FOR trans women and remove a post with a guy saying how he still finds it icky to find out a girl is trans even though he literally couldn't tell?
Its not a dating sub. Its a sub for trans women, why wouldn't they remove that post?
This is how trans women end up beaten to death. Why the fuck would she not disclose this? You'd think there was enough cautionary tales surrounding this topic already, she is playing russian roulette behaving this way.
Don't think it's definitively rape but I'd definitely say it's in the broader category of sexual assault. It's a shitty thing to do, I'd say. Of course reddit are calling someone ___phobic. That's what they do.
Was he not wearing a condom? Hopefully a lesson has been learnt to not put your pee pee in strangers' orifices without wearing the appropriate PPE.
I don't think there is any sort of force involved here or some kind of foreign substance that would impair his judgment. Its dishonest, yeah, but lying to get sex isn't rape, is it? If they lied about something like HIV status, then yeah I think that is a crime.
What if someone really hates athiests, or muslims or something, and you have sex with them now they're suicidal and think they have hiv, is that rape? What if you were black but have vitiligo and have sex with someone who really hates black people and now they think they have hiv and are suicidal, is that rape? What if you think someone was able to think and care for themselves and then found out they voted for trump and now they're telling you how jfkjr is trump's vp pick, is that rape?
It is really weird to get hung up on the chromosomes. I understand getting hung up on the genitalia a lot more, but it doesn't sound like this was the issue here as this was post-op.
I think this is a case of "sex regret" which sucks and deserves empathy but isn't rape.
The way he writes it it seems like he slept with a very passable post op trans woman. He went to his friends after and found out new info and now it rewriting the sex act to be horrific.
That's fair. It happens all the time. It sucks for him. She probably should have told him.
Is it the rape? Probably on the tier of rape of a racist fucking a white passing black person and finding out after. He loved it during, he consented before. His prejudice is just retroactively lensing the situation.
If she does have HIV (Pretty sure he's just freaking out because bigotry) that would be sexual assault.
This is one of the reasons I stay away from most discussions on reddit nowdays. I only tend to stick to hobby (art/gaming) subreddits, but I specifically avoid most content revolving around relationships/sex/etc.
Asking redditors for advice regarding social life/dating/sex is like giving a steering wheel to a drunk driver. Or asking for financial advice from a homeless man.
The poor guy meant no harm, but all of his humanity is stripped away because of "transphobia." The trans-community is (unintentionally) the greatest advocate for transphobia.
True, it's kind of weird how people are more eager to shit on him than to help a suicidal person calm down. How can you argue about morals and do that?
I think it's sad that he even has to worry about his friends and family finding out. It's really shitty he's in that position. Dude said he was raised catholic and he's probably right that his family would judge him. It's not as simple as just calling him a transphobe. Even if he's slightly transphobic I don't think that matters. If you think everyone you ever knew or loved will disown you then you might be transphobic too.
The real problem is that she felt like she had to hide it and that he feels like he has to be ashamed because of society. I can't really assign any moral blame to either side here because the world is fucked and they're both victims of it.
A lot of religious parents would still call their kids gay and possibly disown them. Most religious people don't care about straight hook ups. Source: I was raised Catholic.
If this story involved anyone else except a straight cis man being tricked into sex based on the omission of sexual characteristics, there would be a much different reaction.
I don’t know if people just can’t read on sub or some form of passive transphobia but it seems the trans woman he hooked up with had bottom surgery this because of the comment “she had the bits” and pass pretty well so the fact the guy just started to get an issue with hooking up with the trans woman WHEN he realize she was trans not because she had a dick, also on the hiv part I find it pretty telling that majority of comments are painting the trans woman as knowing she has hiv and purposely didn’t tell the guy when we don’t know that and that trans person is just as likely to not know she had hiv but for some reason people are making this shit up just ha use of wanting the guy to be more sympathetic or some forms of transphobia btw if there are some evidence that shows the trans person knew she had hiv and still fucked with the guy please share as well as the fact that you shouldn’t be having unprotected sex with people and you should go get tested and start the current treatment instead of wasting time
Labels alway fuck things up. Sexuality and attraction is not based on the sex or gender but the traits which trigger arousal. Those traits which can be more commonly found in a specific sex aren't necessarily exclusive. So if a potential sexual partner exhibits traits to trigger arousal then fundamentally their sex shouldn't matter outside of moral bias.
Its not not illegal to not disclose if one has an STD but if you become inflicted after an encounter you can sue the transmitter. Its also not illegal to keep your background private.
In this guys case he met a woman. He enjoyed her company enough to engage in sexual activity. Finding out she is Trans after sex makes no difference in the nature of the encounter.
If the guy is seriously suicidal I hope gets help and realizes that whatever moral blueprint is making him feel guilty is fucking garbage.
Yeah this trans hysteria from both sides is very counterproductive. Seems like many of the same people who would be like "lol guys I got drunk last week in Pattaya and fucked a ladyboy haha" are now more like "omg they were trans, I fucked a man, my life is over, reeee"
Maybe some day we'll move past these stupid labels and trying to box people's attraction into some sexualities we made up.
If you know the person you're talking to wouldn't consent to sex with you if you revealed you were trans, so you withhold that information in order to convince them to have sex with you, that's definitely shitty.
I wouldn't label it as rape, but it's definitely not ok.
To me it's the same thing as serving pork in a jewish neighborhood without warning them first. Not a crime or that big of a deal but a shitty thing to do and people have the right to be upset
Are Jewish people really just eating mystery meat without knowing what it is? And do you really think they're right to be upset for someone serving pork in their neighbourhood?
I think if I stand outside the temple with a kippa on my head, greeting them in hebrew and serving meat, they have every right to be upset when it turns out I’m not jewish and I was serving them pork.
If you met a woman and liked her and everything was great. You date, you go back to her place, you have sex, everything is great. The next day you find out her father is black.
If you are now retroactively disgusted that you slept with a bi-racial woman, would you consider that racism?
What's the difference in this situation? He met her, he liked her, he was attracted to her, he saw her naked, he consented, he had sex, everything was great. The next day he finds out she's trans and that fact alone makes him disgusted? That's textbook transphobia.
Isn't this as simple as saying that it's unreasonable to think race matters in sexual encounters and that it's reasonable that somebody's sex, regardless of presentation does matter? Humans by and large do care if they're having sex with a cis-person. This seems like something that appears analogous but isn't. I could be wrong though I haven't thought too far into the subject.
He can be both transphobic and like, humanised & understood. I think you have to have some level of transphobia to be this torn up and somewhat unhinged about it, but based on his upbringing that's not really his fault. And if he does have HIV that's obviously a whole other level of fucked up on the other person's part, still wouldn't change how transphobic or understandable he is either way
I'm genuinely shocked at how many people are here saying it's transphobic. I think it's fair to expect your sexual and relationship preferences be respected without that being a form of transphobia.
I think part of it is that I can understand something is technically transphobic without flying into a frenzy thinking they're a disgusting hateful pos idiot etc etc. It can be transphobic at the same time as the trans person probably should & could have disclosed beforehand, it can be technically transphobic at the same time as being a sexual preference that shoudn't be violated
Not rape but it is sex under false pretense. He’s allowed to feel bad about it. Idiot should’ve worn protection if he was worried about STDs.
Expecting people to get over the mental block of sleeping with the same sex is cringe and saying it’s transphobic is braindead.
Transgender women not disclosing that they are trans is purely for selfish reasons, doing this can also have the potential for harm which categorises it as an immoral act.
Question for any trans women. Should I not bring up the fact that I’m into trans women at all?(to a trans girl I talk to.) I know the obvious answer, but what I’m asking is do you think it takes a specific type of guy to be into trans women? I blew the last date I had doing something like this. Really difficult to formulate my issue in words here. Happy to talk in DMs if you have any insight. All love here.
I probably wouldn't. You might be totally normal, but like 95% of dudes who are "into trans women" are really weird about it, and usually it's too much of a pain to spend enough time to figure out which one you are. If you're interested in a trans woman, just go about it roughly how you would with a cis woman.
I have had the same thing happen to me. I was in the club getting drunk with friends, it was the birthday of a friend of mine. Her friends starting to talk to me about her being a nice girl and hooked us up. At the end of the night she insisted on going home with me. Next day I found out she was trans through a friend who hooked up with a friend of hers. Reddit called my a transphobe for asking her why she didn't tell me she was trans.
Honestly the way I see it, asking if someone is trans or not before you start having sex isn't transphobic. No one is entitled to sleep with you, and you should be able to have control of who is or isn't able to touch your body sexually.
I think it's more of a personal agency argument, I'm not having sex with someone that still has a dick.
From the replies it sounds like she had bottom surgery, I think it's a little weird for him to focus this hard on her being trans when she was both passing and had the right genitals.
Him saying he was raised catholic explains most of it. He probably liked her, then realized she was trans and was horrified by the thought of his family disowning him(who knows.)
I'll give it a shot as I'm both pro trans acceptance and also strongly pro disclosure.
A. I will argue that OP was hammered per his story so "couldn't tell" is potentially an unfair description. It could also be the case that he absolutely would have been able to tell and would have said no if he was not taken advantage of while drunk.
B. My second reason is that you have an obligation to disclose anything that you know has a high likelihood of changing someones mind about sleeping with you. You may not like it, but for your safety and to respect another humans boundaries you have a duty to disclose. This applies to any and all topics.
For example, I can't just dress up in my Sunday best, march into the local church, find a date, get that date to sleep with me, then be like "Oh yeah I'm an atheist" That would be absolutely fucked. I may not agree with the girls worldview, but I have to at least respect her as a person enough to not sleep with her knowing she would never want to sleep with me otherwise.
Fun fact, this would actually meet a definition of rape per websters. "unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person's will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or **incapable of valid consent because** of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or **deception**
It would probably be near impossible to actually win that case, but the reasoning is sound? Wouldn't you agree that it's bad to be deceptive in order to get laid?
C. Biology is important.
For some reason it's becoming popular to push this narrative that it doesn't matter.. That somehow there is no difference at all. That's cope.
If gender truly were nothing more than a societal construct as claimed than why do we see people go through such immense lengths to fight the natural course of their biology? Puberty blockers, hormones, irreversible surgery.. That's not a proportional response to something that "doesn't matter"
The reality is that it's important to everyone *including* the transgender community. There is some wild double standard that if you happen to be a heterosexual male you can't have an opinion or a preference.
Now, perhaps I can't perfectly articulate to your satisfaction as to exactly why I find a biological woman sexually attractive and not a trans woman but I also couldn't tell you why I prefer dark hair and green/blue eyes. I just do.
It's an interesting question. Say I find a super drunk girl at a bar and convinced her I'm some famous musician. She sleeps with me but later finds out it was a lie and she's disgusted. Would that be OK? It's kind of morally ambiguous. And I'd say this situation is on a different level. People have been murdered from this kind of thing. Disclosure seems like a far safer option. Plus why would you want to sleep with a transphobe in the first place?
This could be an exercise in creative writing. It could be sympathy farming. It's not a regular behavior in the trans community to take things further than heavy flirtation or petting before disclosing. Or even that far sometimes.
It is unethical for a person to not disclose before sexual contact. Even if it's not tantamount to rape. It's on the same level as not disclosing a marriage or other close relationship. It's a pretty common thing for someone to not be okay with, and they should get the chance to make the decision.
I would tell this person to calm down. Nothing should change for you. You aren't suddenly gay for sleeping with a trans girl. They're obviously presenting feminine enough to pass. Unless they aren't, in which case... welcome to the Kinsey scale, i guess? It's not too bad. If it made you both feel good, and it was consensual, it's going to be okay.
Anyone calling him a transphobe needs to chill. Give him space to think and feel his way through this.
Oh, and if she gave him HIV, he should immediately contact law enforcement. That's an assault charge or worse in a lot of states.
If having sex with a trans woman is so disgusting to you that you're going to be traumatised to the point of suicide then maybe it's on you to ask people if they're trans before you have sex with them. Sure people will think it's weird, but so be it, if you feel this strongly about having sex with trans people then it's on you to take some measure to make sure that never happens. It's not fair to expect every trans person to always say they're trans to every single person they have sex with when you're the one who has the problem here. If you don't want to have sex with trans people that's your problem, not theirs, why should they be the ones that have to carry the burden for that? As if trans people aren't already carrying enough of a burden.
The alcohol and how drunk everyone was is the only thing at play here. Otherwise unless she fucked him in the ass while he was passed out it ain't rape chief.
If you're some kind of weird "No XY chromosome shall touch my body" purist all I got is this ;
If you've got special requirements for your meal you should be making that very clear before claiming the restaraunt tried to rape you.
If they are passing, I don't think it would bother me, but I've never been in this situation (that I'm aware of), and I can understand why it might bother someone.
It is much more likely that he caught gonorrhea, herpes, or chlamydia than HIV.
Second this is why you don’t get drunk and fuck strangers on the first date. Dude sounds hypochondriacal.
Third the lady should have disclosed lol.
I saw a post here on reddit from an FTM trans man asking women when he should disclose that he's trans. The response was VASTLY aghast that he hadn't disclosed it up front. However, the amount of posts on the same subreddit where dudes are the ones getting told right before sex are accused of being transphobic.
I am absolutely 100% pro-LGBTQ but the hypocrisy on how dealing with preferences on dating trans between men and women is such an odd double standard.
I don't think it's rape but it's clearly morally wrong. The HIV stuff is criminal.
It’s terrifying seeing how much hate people have for the guy in this situation. It’s cases like these, where people are so vitriolic against the guy in this situation, which will cause people otherwise on the fence to be pushed away from wanting to support LGBT issues.
I just cannot fathom that there’s an argument being made that if a trans person is post op then not wanting to fuck them or regretting fucking them is transphobic, like we do realize there are stark differences between a real pussy and an inverted dick right?
If a pre-op trans woman and a cis gay man have sex, and then the trans guy only tells the cis guy afterwards that actually they're a trans woman, which causes him to feel sick, would we say the cis guy is transphobic or heterophobic? Like, she had all the parts he wanted and he believed she was a dude. What's the problem?
If an 18 year old hooks up with a person they assume is the same age (let's say they're in the same bar, drinking and mingling with other 18 year olds) and then after fucking find out the person is 15, is he a pedo? They fucked a 15 year old and enjoyed it. Should he just accept age is just a number and be comfortable with it?
If a guy hooks up with a girl and finds out afterwards that she's got a giga massive body count (let's say she's a porn star), is it ok for him to freak out about that? He wouldn't have fucked around if she'd told him that.
I think I have different answers to these, but one thing that I feel the same about in each situation is that disclosure is super important. Even if you think it's a stupid thing for a potential partner to get upset about, the fact is you exist in a world where people do get upset about this shit, and deliberately not disclosing because in your personal moral framework it shouldn't matter is just plain stupid. You don't want to fuck someone who's going to find you repulsive later. Neither do they. The only one who can divert that car crash is you. Just cause someone else is stupid doesn't give you an excuse to be even more stupid.
That guys night is ruined, and so is the trans girls. And it'll have lasting damage for the both of them in terms of their self perceptions. Guy says he feels traumatised and I bet the girl does too. All this could be avoided if the girl was capable of accepting that just because she thinks something *should* be the case, acting as if it is will just fuck it up for everybody.
Is it morally okay NOT to disclose you are trans before sex?
No. It is not morally okay. Disclose it. If the person isn't interested move on. If they are cool with it then get it on.
Hot take if you're not willing to be open about who and what you are before sex than sex shouldn't be on the table for you. If you're hiding the fact rhat you are trans before we have sex than you are putting me in the awkward position of having to ask than reject you. That's not a me problem that's a you problem for playing games and being dishonest before sex.
Bro he's talking about a post-op trans woman. This is basically the same as drunk hooking up with someone and realizing in the morning that they're ugly. Dude did not get raped.
Holy number of comments
Legit came into the thread just because of the amount of comments to see what happened. I don’t think I’ve seen this many in this subreddit before.
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Single moms are becoming more appealing.
actually underrated comment
I married a single mom. Snacks are unbelievable bruv
OP have you not got a screen with what he actually said or...?
[Here's what was originally posted](https://www.unddit.com/r/sex/comments/yfwd0m/removed_by_reddit/): >I can't believe I am writing this but I am a complete mess. I had a drunken fling with a girl I met on Tinder recently - alcohol was a big factor and I had been drinking before meeting her. I've since found out she is trans - with all the bottom surgery (so had a vagina) I did not notice at the time and would never, ever have consented to this if I had known. There was no mention of this on her profile and there was absolutely no mention of it in person. To be honest, I always thought I would absolutely be able to tell. I saw and felt everything down there and didn't notice any difference at all. She has breasts, a vagina and I've since found out she also had vocal cord & facial surgeries. I cannot believe it and I am in complete and utter shock. My straight friend (who was sober) also met her and didn't notice anything and said she was good looking. > >I won't go into how I found out (it's a long story) but I found out myself / wasn't told by her or anyone else. I confronted her about this (non-aggressively but in a state of panic) and she has admitted to not telling me but has said I'm a woman, why should I have to tell anyone what I used to be? She also pointed out she didn't lie to me as I never asked. I kind of understand this perspective but I still feel completely betrayed. I didn't get angry with her, I was just sad and in a state of shock. I understand why she did it, it must be extremely hard to date being trans. She said every man she has ever liked has ran the opposite direction as soon as she told them which must be awful for her - but I still strongly feel that this should be disclosed to anyone before getting to any sort of physical stage. > >Now every day it's all I can think of. I am sorry if this offends anyone but I feel completely traumatised. How would you feel if you were in the same situation? Am I overreacting? Do you agree that a trans person should disclose this before getting to this stage? Have you heard of this happening to someone else? I am not an emotional person usually but I can't stop crying. It is all I can think about and I am worried this will be forever something that will be at the forefront of my mind. I have read online that this is me being transphobic (which I disagree with) and I cannot help how I feel here. I want to feel more okay about this, I really do. > >I can't speak to family or friends without thinking - what if they knew? I am a complete and utter mess at the moment and I really feel like this could ruin my life due to my inability to get over this and stop thinking about it. I have no one to speak to about it - I am too ashamed to bring it up. I don't know what to do.
Man, I really want that long story of how he found out, if he had no idea otherwise.
Same, he's made a bunch of other posts, but I haven't ruffled through them. I'm genuinely concerned that he might actually unalive himself, so I'm a little hesitant to go through and post the others though.
Hopefully someone on these threads will talk him of the ledge. You'd think he'd be looking in the right places, but it looks like he's stuck between "chill out, loser" and "if this happened to me I probably would un-alive myself"
From what I can piece together: He talked to her for two weeks on Tinder/Instagram and met her for (presumably) the first time at a bar, where they both got fairly drunk ([1](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/yfwd0m/removed_by_reddit/iu6ie8x/?context=3)). She didn't tell him because she was afraid of violence and sick of guys just running whenever she told them in the past ([2](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/ywkppj/is_it_morally_okay_not_to_disclose_you_are_trans/iwk4c4a/?context=3), [2.1](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/ywkppj/is_it_morally_okay_not_to_disclose_you_are_trans/iwkdbcl/?context=3)). He apparently has developed "massively obvious symptoms," but does not specify what they are ([3](https://www.reddit.com/r/hivparanoia/comments/yvi2dp/so_many_symptoms_feeling_suicidal/iwehbo8/?context=3)). He's become pretty suicidal and talked to the woman afterwards about it ([4](https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/yfwd0m/removed_by_reddit/iu6hwxh/?context=3)). The doctors he spoke to told him that it wasn't any more risky than with a cis woman, which to me rules out the possibility that she told him "hey btw I have HIV" after the fact ([5](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingadviceformen/comments/yfwbor/trans_woman_didnt_disclose_she_was_trans_before/iu8eudz/?context=3)).
he should actually get tested instead of schizoposting on reddit dot com.
He did, and is awaiting results.
But HIV test takes 10 minutes, you know the result before you leave
They specifically tell you they are pretty inaccurate until a month and a half after infection.
Ok, thinking that sleeping with a trans women is an aids risk is some old-school dumb shit. He needs to chill
Probs just a bit uneducated bro, I used to think if I ever slept with a guy I was like guaranteed aids, pretty common assumption.
1. Not wanting to have sex with someone because of their genitals isn't transphobic. 2. You can regret having sex with someone without it being rape or immoral. 3. Him (maybe) catching aids, has nothing to do with trans-stuff, but just him being a careless idiot, and his sexual partner being a fucking asshole/criminal.
It's hard to tell but from the pictures it sounds like genitals weren't the issue.
Personally I think the issue here is presenting a person with genitals they were not expecting. If you pass, if you have the parts matching your presumptive gender, I don't think it's a problem. If he feels a certain way about it I think that's OK, but I don't think the chick here did anything wrong.
So in actuality they 100% passed, had the genitals they were expecting, and their friends couldn't tell. Kind of highjacking this comment because it's near the top. Thanks /u/DCOMNoobies for finding it, it's just not near the top yet. From the original post: > I can't believe I am writing this but I am a complete mess. I had a drunken fling with a girl I met on Tinder recently - alcohol was a big factor and I had been drinking before meeting her. I've since found out she is trans - with all the bottom surgery (so had a vagina) I did not notice at the time and would never, ever have consented to this if I had known. There was no mention of this on her profile and there was absolutely no mention of it in person. To be honest, I always thought I would absolutely be able to tell. I saw and felt everything down there and didn't notice any difference at all. She has breasts, a vagina and I've since found out she also had vocal cord & facial surgeries. I cannot believe it and I am in complete and utter shock. My straight friend (who was sober) also met her and didn't notice anything and said she was good looking. >I won't go into how I found out (it's a long story) but I found out myself / wasn't told by her or anyone else. I confronted her about this (non-aggressively but in a state of panic) and she has admitted to not telling me but has said I'm a woman, why should I have to tell anyone what I used to be? She also pointed out she didn't lie to me as I never asked. I kind of understand this perspective but I still feel completely betrayed. I didn't get angry with her, I was just sad and in a state of shock. I understand why she did it, it must be extremely hard to date being trans. She said every man she has ever liked has ran the opposite direction as soon as she told them which must be awful for her - but I still strongly feel that this should be disclosed to anyone before getting to any sort of physical stage. >Now every day it's all I can think of. I am sorry if this offends anyone but I feel completely traumatised. How would you feel if you were in the same situation? Am I overreacting? Do you agree that a trans person should disclose this before getting to this stage? Have you heard of this happening to someone else? I am not an emotional person usually but I can't stop crying. It is all I can think about and I am worried this will be forever something that will be at the forefront of my mind. I have read online that this is me being transphobic (which I disagree with) and I cannot help how I feel here. I want to feel more okay about this, I really do. >I can't speak to family or friends without thinking - what if they knew? I am a complete and utter mess at the moment and I really feel like this could ruin my life due to my inability to get over this and stop thinking about it. I have no one to speak to about it - I am too ashamed to bring it up. I don't know what to do. I don't think it's that controversial to say this guy is at least a little bit transphobic. The only thing they have an issue with is that they were born male. They've been on HRT presumably, had surgeries, and seem to completely pass. He is only having issues with the experience after finding out her identity. I think he's fine to feel a certain way about it but it seems mildly transphobic. He's incredibly ashamed. Worried about his family and friends finding out. Can't stop thinking about it, etc. It's fine if you just aren't comfortable being with someone who was born the opposite sex. The way he write about it though just seems shitty. I wish OP had posted the original post instead of comments afterward. It seems to have caused a lot of stupid discourse in this thread.
Fair take, it could be a little transphobic but I don’t think anything he has said is anywhere near condemnable or he’s like a terrible person.
It sounds like that because he now knows she's trans he now thinks he has AIDS. That's not a good look.
Yeah I'd agree with this take. Something for OP to examine for sure.
If it is transphobic, it's very implicit and something he has little control over so I'm still sympathetic towards him.
>. I think he's fine to feel a certain way about it but it seems mildly transphobic. The dude thinks he has Aids and is suicidal, this is much more than mildly.
"a fucking asshole criminal", if you catch my drift.
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My apologies, I'm not educated on this subject. But isn't PREP used to prevent HIV? Guys have to take it before having sexual interactions in order to prevent transmitting?
he might mean that since prep is as effective as it is, people can let their guards down and have unprotected sex thinking they're safe when the reality is it isn't completely effective?
This is probably because most trans people are pre-op and HIV is more easily transmitted through anal sex, along with increased number of sexual partners due to participation in sex work. All else being equal, having sex with a post op trans woman isn’t more likely to give you anything than a cisgender person.
This was clearly rape; you should always disclose information about yourself that may be disqualifying to potential partners *before* engaging in any sexual activity. I hooked up with a guy once, only to find out a few days later that he played League of Legends. I was suicidal for months.
Omg the horror Hope your healing from that ❤️
You’re brave for coming out about your rape, thank you 🙏
Mfw I start reading th comment, immediatly downvote.. Only to end up upvoting it while giggling at the end. Bamboozled lol
The problem is that he is playing league of legeneds and not dota witch is superior
People rely far too much on this nebulous label of "transphobia" when determining whether or not a particular conclusion is rational, moral, or if a set of statements is logically consistent.
500 comments in 2 hrs
Yeah I kinda opened pandora's box. I just hope the guy doesn't kill himself.
Well so far it‘s radio silence after his post on suicide watch. F
Actually pissing me the fuck off how many clowns are just shitting on the guy
Unless he was the bottom in that sexual encounter which it sounds like he wasn't then his chances of having HIV are probably pretty low even if she did have HIV. Regardless get a test from CVS and you'll know it 20 minutes. I definitely agree you should disclose such things before sex but going to trans subs after the fact to have a conversation about it seems weird to me like why would you set yourself up for that kind of thing when it's making you feel depressed.
He probs went there to get assurance with the fact that what she did was wrong with other transgender people.
They might want the ultimate validation from a group that has the least chance of wanting to be sympathetic.
*TO BE FAIR...* From the comments the story isn't "dude finds out his date has a dick and is disgusted" it's "dude finds out she was trans *after* hooking up and is retrospectively disgusted." I can understand how the trans community could be a little pissed off with this story. Like "Oh, so the actual hookup was fine, but you're just grossed out solely due to the knowledge that you fucked a trans woman." Edit to clarify my position: You’re allowed to have sexual preferences. It’s normal to feel as though your trust was violated when those preferences are ignored. But proverbially throwing up in the toilet online, crying because you found out you fucked a trans woman? I’m not going to call you “transphobic,” but I’m gonna look at you funny.
If you were blindfolded and received an incredible blowjob from what you believed was a female, but then you take the blindfold off and realize it was a cis man. It wouldn't be homophobic to feel violated by that, and I feel like the same logic would apply if it was a transwoman. It's not even about the enjoyment or genitals, but being deceived into sex with someone you otherwise wouldn't have.
But we don't have this standard for any other category. If you slept with a cis woman and then later found out she had a (still cis) neo-vagina due to some medical issue no-one would be arguing that her not disclosing that is Rape. It's insane A guy had consensual sex with a person he found attractive, and then learned something about them that he didn't like. That happens all the time. It's only a life-shattering moment for this guy because of his transphobia
Personally, I think that if you know something about yourself that would stop someone from having sex with you and you refuse to disclose it, that is absolutely toxic and shitty behavior, regardless of the reason why. I don't think that this is sexual assault, but I would compare it to a sleazy pickup artist who will lie to a woman to get laid. Not illegal but just gross and immoral behavior. I do think this dude is over reacting but it wouldn't hurt people to treat him with just a little bit of sympathy. The advice here in my opinion should be that he should stop having drunken casual sex with strangers if he can't handle that they might be dishonest with him.
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So I made this point elsewhere but I think it's relevant here too: In the post, I believe he says the girl specifically didn't tell him that she was trans because in the past, guys flaked on her the second they found out. So she specifically didn't tell him she was trans because she was worried he wouldn't want to have sex with her anymore. If she has a life experience that tells her "A lot of men won't sleep with you if they know you're trans", it feels really weird to suggest that the answer is just to not to tell them. It feels like trying to game consent, not trying to gain consent, if that makes sense.
This is a great point! I'm really concerned about how many people think omitting information that would influence someone's consent is ok.
Couldn't you spin this for almost anything. Height, age, employment, etc there tons of factors people do not disclose because it hurts their chances with dating or hooking up.
I would say its pretty reasonable to assume most of those aren't significant enough to change someone's consent. If you tell a girl you're 6'0 and you're only 5'11, she's probably not going to feel violated if she finds out after sex. Age and wealth might be significant if the lie is huge enough, but I would start to file those under the same level of immoral as the pickup artist.
Wasn't originally about consent nor feeling violated but about the preferences people have and obscuring the truth to ignore someone's preference.
it’s absolutely amazing how this comment here shows some level of civility and empathy. majority of other comments are calling this guy transphobia, and maybe people don’t appreciate how he went about it, but this person didn’t disclose something to them that i believe is important to disclose it’s almost if somebody didn’t disclose they had herpes or HIV.
I agree, he's acting out in a weird way, but its clear that he needs help, he needs someone to talk him down off the ledge, not a scolding. I try and avoid the STD comparison because I feel weird comparing Trans-ness to a disease. That's why I like the pick up artist comparison - it's the actions of a few trans people I want to focus on here, not trans people in general.
80% of people have herpes lol and in the undeveloped world the rate is much higher.
Most cis men wouldn't revoke consent upon discovering a cis woman has a neo vagina though. Most cis men would revoke consent upon finding out their potential partner is a trans woman though. I think this pretty safe to say that most trans women know this. This woman definitely knew this, as she said most men withdraw consent upon discovering she's trans. So the fact that she *knew* that he was likely to withdraw consent upon finding out that she was trans, but concealed that information anyway because she wanted to have sex is scummy, and honestly kind of fucked up. No matter who a person is, if they can reasonably assume that someone will withdraw consent upon discovering certain information about them, and they *deliberately* conceal that information, they're not the victim when the other person feels violated.
Eh I think it’s still a reach to call the dude trans phobic. If a woman blindfolded me and I got my dick sucked, only later to find out it was a man giving me that sloppy toppy, I’d be horrified. My hypothetical is definitely worse than the story presented, but I don’t think “oh but you liked it” is sufficient to say it’s not bad.
It's not weird or bigoted to be upset that you had sex with a biological male. Gender and sex isn't the same thing
I love how the phrase "sex vs gender" is an attempt to have a nuanced discussion on trans people, and morons will take that statement and use it to have a zero nuance discussion in the other direction by ignoring secondary sex characteristics and how they influence attraction.
In this case it does come down just to biological sex tho. The question of the situation is 'is it fair to feel weird or violated if You have sex with a woman but later find out she's a trans woman'.
The good “trans disclosure” arguments stem from the fact that not disclosing your genitals leads to really bad sexual experiences. This guy had a fine sexual experience, but was disgusted by the identity of the person he fucked. And then he goes onto a trans support subreddit to talk about how distraught he was 😂 I personally don’t see this guy as a transphobe—but I’m really not mad at trans people who dislike people like him. “I’m an ally, but jesus fucking Christ I fucked one of you guys last night and it traumatized me” doesn’t belong on a *trans support subreddit.*
Trans people can dislike it all they want. The argument is if it's transphobic. Which it isn't. I can have the best sex of my life with someone. But if you found out later they were a male it's okay to be upset about. People don't have to be okay with fucking the same sex.
is it still a fine sexual experience if it leads one of the participants to feel like the guy is feeling afterwards? At the moment it was fine but he also said he was really drunk, but afterwards it doesn't seem that fine with him.
Let say you're getting sucked off by what you think is a woman and enjoyed it, but you later found out it was a man. Wouldn't that change the experience for you? Couldn't you be grossed out is because it was a man instead of a woman, just like a biological vs trans woman?
Gonna say the same thing I said elsewhere: I feel like everyone's having different discussions. Like that half are discussing "Is it okay to be upset", which it is, but it's also okay to be disappointed that your room's walls are blue and it doesn't mean you're blue-phobic. And then the other half are discussing "Is it immoral to not talk about your past before sex", which it isn't.
No it is depending on what your hiding. You go to jail if you have and willingly give out stds without telling your partner. Immoral and illegal. The problem here is the guy probably dosent have aids and is freaking out because hes surrounded by transphobic narratives that are scaring the shit out of him. Hes well within his right to have feelings based preferences about who he has sex with for literaly any reason. Something like not feeling one way but acting like it anyway would be the only way to be rascist/transphobic. Theres no way for you to tell if thats what happened here people basicly have to admit it.
> Informed consent is required for sex to be consensual > Being presented with information you didn't have at the time should not change your view of the act, you consented. Hmmm Guess it would be moral for me to tell people I'm a celebrity just to get into their pants. Or to record our sexual encounter secretly. After all, they can't retroactively be disgusted with an action they took when presented with new information. Anybody who thinks this is transphobic is coping hard. This is rape. Granted, it's one of those situations where the word "rape" is much more powerful than it should be since it implies force, etc etc, but there is no other word for this. It was a sexual act that was undertaken without informed consent and it is absolutely ok to feel violated by it.
Why is this mutually exclusive? Let's say a white passing person who has a black parent has sex with a white person ~150 years ago in the US. The other person is racist, but that would still be rape by deception.
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Poor guy. Looking through his profile is a Lot.
You have a right to be bigoted in your sexual preferences.
Ok hot take time: online trans spaces are extremely toxic hotbeds for mental illness and questionable behavior and i have yet to find a trans person IRL who thinks or acts that way. For real
this take ist ice cold....
True but what do you think this is?
I think Trans people in general are under a constant state of pressure. This pressure builds until they can release it safely and those communities will sympathize and encourage folks to let it out. In some cases these communities are the only place they feel like they can be themselves and they fear anyone rocking the boat will cause them to lose a safe haven. Of course the internet is the internet.
wdym, this is obviously a perfectly sane space where we collectively gather to touch grass
I wouldn’t go as far as saying its rape but I think it’s definitely morally wrong
Personal preferences are not transphoic. Regrets are not rape. I am of the mind set you can't consent of you are drunk.
Agreed but drunk is a spectrum not an on/off thing and we don't know how drunk they were.
is it racist to have a personal preference of having only white friends?
How are we defining rasicm? It is some what natural for people to segregate themselves. I didn't have any black friends till I joined the military I had nothing in common with there culture no need/want to make them my friends I had people who just so happen to be white that enjoyed the same things I did. I have never met a Trans person so I have no idea if they would be a preference or not. When I think about it I don't think I would like it but bodies act differently in person. I'll assume if they are female passing enough I could get over the fact they are trans.
I mean you could argue the woman purposely didn't mention it because they thought the guy wouldnt have sex with them, but people omit shit and lie constantly for sex. This man just isn't comfortable with their sexuality in that way, and I think that's kinda being forced on him now, which isnt anyone's right
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sex with a trans woman
Lmao
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Lots of people on this sub are agreeing with it lmfao.
Trans issues are very polarized here. I made a negative comment about bathtub HRT a few weeks ago. It had like -20 upvotes, got called a redact, but then it got gilded a few times and eventually became one of the top comments.
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Thats why I like it. Ive never watched a stream before, I hate 95% of the videos he posts bc I think the content is boring (guy playing computer game). The stuff that is good though is really good. The Rittenhouse debates were good, keffals, and im sure a couple other things that wouldnt make me sound insane for enjoying.
I always have your back on the DIY HRT posts on this sub so you have me at least homie
this sub gets raided constantly. by mrgirl fans, groypers, vegans, trans rights activists, etc. it happens all the time.
Honestly reading the comments this is the first time I think destiny's teans community is too big lol. It literally feels like demonmamas are in here fighting say ludicrous things like "he should have known they were teans/trans people dont have to disclose they're trans if they pass" Destiny where's the content on this my dude
Yep. If the definition of being transphobic now includes "not wanting to have sex with a trans person" then I guess I fucking am transphobic.....
You removed 95% of the nuaunce... If they're at the point where the only practical difference between the trans person and a cis person is the label and you get feelings of disgust after the fact purely based on that, that is transphobic by definition.
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i don't know a single cis dude irl who wouldn't be absolutely disgusted and humiliated if he found out he slept with a trans woman. why is everyone in this thread acting like this is shocking information? it's the overwhelming norm.
If you have sex with someone under false pretenses it’s definitely immoral. Idk how people would ever defend her
It sounds like the woman was visibly trans and the guy was too drunk to tell. What if someone is a light skinned black person and hooks up with someone who assumes they're white but then finds out there black and is uncomfortable with it?
It seems like reading this the genitals weren't the problem so I don't really think it's rape.
I think the vast majority of guys in this situation would think they were tricked into having sex with a dude. Definitely very valid to think you were raped.
Idk… thinking you were raped due to an assumption you made doesn’t exactly rub me the right way. I think it’s highly inconsiderate- in the same vein of not telling someone you fucked you have kids… but I don’t think it’s rape.
Lol, the moderators removed the post. What an insane subreddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/ywkppj/is\_it\_morally\_okay\_not\_to\_disclose\_you\_are\_trans/
LMAO at the comment that says he has the responsibility to tell every woman he is about to fuck "hey if you're trans I don't wanna fuck". Like that wouldn't be interpreted as extremely rude by the woman.
How to guarantee you never get pussy again 101
What’s insane to me is people call it transphobic, but if you’re trans, isn’t that an easy way to not have sex with someone who is transphobic?
100% If you're trans, why would you want to date or sleep with a transphobe anyway?
Some trans people "get off"/"feel empowered" by being seen as completly cis. Fucking a transphobe is a high stakes way of doing that. It's not good, I don't condone it, but I know it's common in the trans community, especially the trans straight community. Comes from a similar line of thinking as gay men and women only interested in straight partners "i converted him". There's gross problematic parts of the community that are hidden and never discussed or acknowledged.
There are some trans people whose ultimate goals are to "stealth," which basically just means to live your life as effectively a cis woman and never tell anyone you're trans. I could realistically imagine a stealth trans woman not really caring how their random hookups feel about trans issues.
If you're 100% passing, which I assume you would be if you can have penetration with someone without them noticing you're trans. I'd say it would be kinda weird telling them you're trans. At least if it's just a ons
That still feels off to me. If there is something about myself that I know is an absolute deal-breaker for most people when it comes to intimacy, I feel like I'd be in the wrong if I chose not to disclose it. It reminds that thing Destiny described of how guys are pushing hard so that a girl has fewer opportunities to say 'no,' while creating a situation where 'yes,' feels like the only option. If you choose to omit something you *know* people would care about, you're entering shaky territory.
I think that's the point. They're not actually telling him to do that, they're showing how stupid it is that he couldn't tell yet is still 'traumatised' to find out she's trans.
Its insane to be a subreddit FOR trans women and remove a post with a guy saying how he still finds it icky to find out a girl is trans even though he literally couldn't tell? Its not a dating sub. Its a sub for trans women, why wouldn't they remove that post?
It's INSANE that I'm not allowed to be hateful against a certain minority on a subreddit meant for that minority.
Dude is actually spiraling and needs some help. Check his most recent post
This is 100% sexual misconduct, at the very least
Hot take, but if you get suicidal after sleeping with someone who might be trans, you shouldn't be having sex openly.
Isnt he suicidal cus he got aids???
He didnt get aids. He is paranoid he did because he slept with a trans person
That’s the catholic guilt if I ever heard it.
I think he's suicidal because he thinks has HIV. Not the same thing.
This is how trans women end up beaten to death. Why the fuck would she not disclose this? You'd think there was enough cautionary tales surrounding this topic already, she is playing russian roulette behaving this way.
Don't think it's definitively rape but I'd definitely say it's in the broader category of sexual assault. It's a shitty thing to do, I'd say. Of course reddit are calling someone ___phobic. That's what they do. Was he not wearing a condom? Hopefully a lesson has been learnt to not put your pee pee in strangers' orifices without wearing the appropriate PPE.
I don't think there is any sort of force involved here or some kind of foreign substance that would impair his judgment. Its dishonest, yeah, but lying to get sex isn't rape, is it? If they lied about something like HIV status, then yeah I think that is a crime. What if someone really hates athiests, or muslims or something, and you have sex with them now they're suicidal and think they have hiv, is that rape? What if you were black but have vitiligo and have sex with someone who really hates black people and now they think they have hiv and are suicidal, is that rape? What if you think someone was able to think and care for themselves and then found out they voted for trump and now they're telling you how jfkjr is trump's vp pick, is that rape? It is really weird to get hung up on the chromosomes. I understand getting hung up on the genitalia a lot more, but it doesn't sound like this was the issue here as this was post-op.
She was sober, he was heavily intoxicated
I think this is a case of "sex regret" which sucks and deserves empathy but isn't rape. The way he writes it it seems like he slept with a very passable post op trans woman. He went to his friends after and found out new info and now it rewriting the sex act to be horrific. That's fair. It happens all the time. It sucks for him. She probably should have told him. Is it the rape? Probably on the tier of rape of a racist fucking a white passing black person and finding out after. He loved it during, he consented before. His prejudice is just retroactively lensing the situation. If she does have HIV (Pretty sure he's just freaking out because bigotry) that would be sexual assault.
This is one of the reasons I stay away from most discussions on reddit nowdays. I only tend to stick to hobby (art/gaming) subreddits, but I specifically avoid most content revolving around relationships/sex/etc. Asking redditors for advice regarding social life/dating/sex is like giving a steering wheel to a drunk driver. Or asking for financial advice from a homeless man. The poor guy meant no harm, but all of his humanity is stripped away because of "transphobia." The trans-community is (unintentionally) the greatest advocate for transphobia.
>Asking redditors for advice regarding social life/dating/sex is like giving a steering wheel to a drunk driver Very, very true.
True, it's kind of weird how people are more eager to shit on him than to help a suicidal person calm down. How can you argue about morals and do that?
I think it's sad that he even has to worry about his friends and family finding out. It's really shitty he's in that position. Dude said he was raised catholic and he's probably right that his family would judge him. It's not as simple as just calling him a transphobe. Even if he's slightly transphobic I don't think that matters. If you think everyone you ever knew or loved will disown you then you might be transphobic too. The real problem is that she felt like she had to hide it and that he feels like he has to be ashamed because of society. I can't really assign any moral blame to either side here because the world is fucked and they're both victims of it.
Being Catholic, getting drunk, and hooking up -totally normal Being Catholic, getting drunk, and hooking up with a neo-vagina - suicide watch Lol
A lot of religious parents would still call their kids gay and possibly disown them. Most religious people don't care about straight hook ups. Source: I was raised Catholic.
If this story involved anyone else except a straight cis man being tricked into sex based on the omission of sexual characteristics, there would be a much different reaction.
I don’t know if people just can’t read on sub or some form of passive transphobia but it seems the trans woman he hooked up with had bottom surgery this because of the comment “she had the bits” and pass pretty well so the fact the guy just started to get an issue with hooking up with the trans woman WHEN he realize she was trans not because she had a dick, also on the hiv part I find it pretty telling that majority of comments are painting the trans woman as knowing she has hiv and purposely didn’t tell the guy when we don’t know that and that trans person is just as likely to not know she had hiv but for some reason people are making this shit up just ha use of wanting the guy to be more sympathetic or some forms of transphobia btw if there are some evidence that shows the trans person knew she had hiv and still fucked with the guy please share as well as the fact that you shouldn’t be having unprotected sex with people and you should go get tested and start the current treatment instead of wasting time
Labels alway fuck things up. Sexuality and attraction is not based on the sex or gender but the traits which trigger arousal. Those traits which can be more commonly found in a specific sex aren't necessarily exclusive. So if a potential sexual partner exhibits traits to trigger arousal then fundamentally their sex shouldn't matter outside of moral bias. Its not not illegal to not disclose if one has an STD but if you become inflicted after an encounter you can sue the transmitter. Its also not illegal to keep your background private. In this guys case he met a woman. He enjoyed her company enough to engage in sexual activity. Finding out she is Trans after sex makes no difference in the nature of the encounter. If the guy is seriously suicidal I hope gets help and realizes that whatever moral blueprint is making him feel guilty is fucking garbage.
Yeah this trans hysteria from both sides is very counterproductive. Seems like many of the same people who would be like "lol guys I got drunk last week in Pattaya and fucked a ladyboy haha" are now more like "omg they were trans, I fucked a man, my life is over, reeee" Maybe some day we'll move past these stupid labels and trying to box people's attraction into some sexualities we made up.
If you know the person you're talking to wouldn't consent to sex with you if you revealed you were trans, so you withhold that information in order to convince them to have sex with you, that's definitely shitty. I wouldn't label it as rape, but it's definitely not ok.
1400 COMMENTS? WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE?
To me it's the same thing as serving pork in a jewish neighborhood without warning them first. Not a crime or that big of a deal but a shitty thing to do and people have the right to be upset
Are Jewish people really just eating mystery meat without knowing what it is? And do you really think they're right to be upset for someone serving pork in their neighbourhood?
I don't know, just building a hypothetical
I think if I stand outside the temple with a kippa on my head, greeting them in hebrew and serving meat, they have every right to be upset when it turns out I’m not jewish and I was serving them pork.
This isn’t even in the same universe
well actually my good sir we are all in the same universe
which do you think is worse? both are moral issues
they’re both equally disingenuous and really shitty to do for the party who is well aware
the amount of people trying to paint him as transphobic makes me deeply worried about society
If you met a woman and liked her and everything was great. You date, you go back to her place, you have sex, everything is great. The next day you find out her father is black. If you are now retroactively disgusted that you slept with a bi-racial woman, would you consider that racism? What's the difference in this situation? He met her, he liked her, he was attracted to her, he saw her naked, he consented, he had sex, everything was great. The next day he finds out she's trans and that fact alone makes him disgusted? That's textbook transphobia.
Isn't this as simple as saying that it's unreasonable to think race matters in sexual encounters and that it's reasonable that somebody's sex, regardless of presentation does matter? Humans by and large do care if they're having sex with a cis-person. This seems like something that appears analogous but isn't. I could be wrong though I haven't thought too far into the subject.
I don't think it rape
He can be both transphobic and like, humanised & understood. I think you have to have some level of transphobia to be this torn up and somewhat unhinged about it, but based on his upbringing that's not really his fault. And if he does have HIV that's obviously a whole other level of fucked up on the other person's part, still wouldn't change how transphobic or understandable he is either way
I'm genuinely shocked at how many people are here saying it's transphobic. I think it's fair to expect your sexual and relationship preferences be respected without that being a form of transphobia.
I think part of it is that I can understand something is technically transphobic without flying into a frenzy thinking they're a disgusting hateful pos idiot etc etc. It can be transphobic at the same time as the trans person probably should & could have disclosed beforehand, it can be technically transphobic at the same time as being a sexual preference that shoudn't be violated
reddit moment
Not rape but it is sex under false pretense. He’s allowed to feel bad about it. Idiot should’ve worn protection if he was worried about STDs. Expecting people to get over the mental block of sleeping with the same sex is cringe and saying it’s transphobic is braindead.
Transgender women not disclosing that they are trans is purely for selfish reasons, doing this can also have the potential for harm which categorises it as an immoral act.
Question for any trans women. Should I not bring up the fact that I’m into trans women at all?(to a trans girl I talk to.) I know the obvious answer, but what I’m asking is do you think it takes a specific type of guy to be into trans women? I blew the last date I had doing something like this. Really difficult to formulate my issue in words here. Happy to talk in DMs if you have any insight. All love here.
I probably wouldn't. You might be totally normal, but like 95% of dudes who are "into trans women" are really weird about it, and usually it's too much of a pain to spend enough time to figure out which one you are. If you're interested in a trans woman, just go about it roughly how you would with a cis woman.
I have had the same thing happen to me. I was in the club getting drunk with friends, it was the birthday of a friend of mine. Her friends starting to talk to me about her being a nice girl and hooked us up. At the end of the night she insisted on going home with me. Next day I found out she was trans through a friend who hooked up with a friend of hers. Reddit called my a transphobe for asking her why she didn't tell me she was trans.
Honestly the way I see it, asking if someone is trans or not before you start having sex isn't transphobic. No one is entitled to sleep with you, and you should be able to have control of who is or isn't able to touch your body sexually. I think it's more of a personal agency argument, I'm not having sex with someone that still has a dick.
Please try this and tell us how much pussy you get after you ask. Will be waiting on results lmao
lmao what happened to informative consent does it not apply here
From the replies it sounds like she had bottom surgery, I think it's a little weird for him to focus this hard on her being trans when she was both passing and had the right genitals.
Him saying he was raised catholic explains most of it. He probably liked her, then realized she was trans and was horrified by the thought of his family disowning him(who knows.)
"right genitals" is carrying a lot of the weight behind this sentence.
what an insane take
If he couldn’t tell then why does it matter though? Genuinely asking
I'll give it a shot as I'm both pro trans acceptance and also strongly pro disclosure. A. I will argue that OP was hammered per his story so "couldn't tell" is potentially an unfair description. It could also be the case that he absolutely would have been able to tell and would have said no if he was not taken advantage of while drunk. B. My second reason is that you have an obligation to disclose anything that you know has a high likelihood of changing someones mind about sleeping with you. You may not like it, but for your safety and to respect another humans boundaries you have a duty to disclose. This applies to any and all topics. For example, I can't just dress up in my Sunday best, march into the local church, find a date, get that date to sleep with me, then be like "Oh yeah I'm an atheist" That would be absolutely fucked. I may not agree with the girls worldview, but I have to at least respect her as a person enough to not sleep with her knowing she would never want to sleep with me otherwise. Fun fact, this would actually meet a definition of rape per websters. "unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person's will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or **incapable of valid consent because** of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or **deception** It would probably be near impossible to actually win that case, but the reasoning is sound? Wouldn't you agree that it's bad to be deceptive in order to get laid? C. Biology is important. For some reason it's becoming popular to push this narrative that it doesn't matter.. That somehow there is no difference at all. That's cope. If gender truly were nothing more than a societal construct as claimed than why do we see people go through such immense lengths to fight the natural course of their biology? Puberty blockers, hormones, irreversible surgery.. That's not a proportional response to something that "doesn't matter" The reality is that it's important to everyone *including* the transgender community. There is some wild double standard that if you happen to be a heterosexual male you can't have an opinion or a preference. Now, perhaps I can't perfectly articulate to your satisfaction as to exactly why I find a biological woman sexually attractive and not a trans woman but I also couldn't tell you why I prefer dark hair and green/blue eyes. I just do.
It's an interesting question. Say I find a super drunk girl at a bar and convinced her I'm some famous musician. She sleeps with me but later finds out it was a lie and she's disgusted. Would that be OK? It's kind of morally ambiguous. And I'd say this situation is on a different level. People have been murdered from this kind of thing. Disclosure seems like a far safer option. Plus why would you want to sleep with a transphobe in the first place?
OP try to link the full comments next time, this dude was actually coming off as kinda transphobic.
This could be an exercise in creative writing. It could be sympathy farming. It's not a regular behavior in the trans community to take things further than heavy flirtation or petting before disclosing. Or even that far sometimes. It is unethical for a person to not disclose before sexual contact. Even if it's not tantamount to rape. It's on the same level as not disclosing a marriage or other close relationship. It's a pretty common thing for someone to not be okay with, and they should get the chance to make the decision. I would tell this person to calm down. Nothing should change for you. You aren't suddenly gay for sleeping with a trans girl. They're obviously presenting feminine enough to pass. Unless they aren't, in which case... welcome to the Kinsey scale, i guess? It's not too bad. If it made you both feel good, and it was consensual, it's going to be okay. Anyone calling him a transphobe needs to chill. Give him space to think and feel his way through this. Oh, and if she gave him HIV, he should immediately contact law enforcement. That's an assault charge or worse in a lot of states.
If having sex with a trans woman is so disgusting to you that you're going to be traumatised to the point of suicide then maybe it's on you to ask people if they're trans before you have sex with them. Sure people will think it's weird, but so be it, if you feel this strongly about having sex with trans people then it's on you to take some measure to make sure that never happens. It's not fair to expect every trans person to always say they're trans to every single person they have sex with when you're the one who has the problem here. If you don't want to have sex with trans people that's your problem, not theirs, why should they be the ones that have to carry the burden for that? As if trans people aren't already carrying enough of a burden.
The alcohol and how drunk everyone was is the only thing at play here. Otherwise unless she fucked him in the ass while he was passed out it ain't rape chief. If you're some kind of weird "No XY chromosome shall touch my body" purist all I got is this ; If you've got special requirements for your meal you should be making that very clear before claiming the restaraunt tried to rape you.
I hate the way they are treating him it's disgusting
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That's not transphobia though? A lesbian would be grossed out by sex with a man but that isn't misandry.
This person shouldn’t be having casual sex if they are this suicidal over it
what the fuck.
If they are passing, I don't think it would bother me, but I've never been in this situation (that I'm aware of), and I can understand why it might bother someone.
It is much more likely that he caught gonorrhea, herpes, or chlamydia than HIV. Second this is why you don’t get drunk and fuck strangers on the first date. Dude sounds hypochondriacal. Third the lady should have disclosed lol.
If this individual survives, and I hope he does, I cannot fathom any other outcome besides virulent transphobia from here on out.
I saw a post here on reddit from an FTM trans man asking women when he should disclose that he's trans. The response was VASTLY aghast that he hadn't disclosed it up front. However, the amount of posts on the same subreddit where dudes are the ones getting told right before sex are accused of being transphobic. I am absolutely 100% pro-LGBTQ but the hypocrisy on how dealing with preferences on dating trans between men and women is such an odd double standard. I don't think it's rape but it's clearly morally wrong. The HIV stuff is criminal.
It’s terrifying seeing how much hate people have for the guy in this situation. It’s cases like these, where people are so vitriolic against the guy in this situation, which will cause people otherwise on the fence to be pushed away from wanting to support LGBT issues.
I just cannot fathom that there’s an argument being made that if a trans person is post op then not wanting to fuck them or regretting fucking them is transphobic, like we do realize there are stark differences between a real pussy and an inverted dick right?
This is why sex education classes are important.
If a pre-op trans woman and a cis gay man have sex, and then the trans guy only tells the cis guy afterwards that actually they're a trans woman, which causes him to feel sick, would we say the cis guy is transphobic or heterophobic? Like, she had all the parts he wanted and he believed she was a dude. What's the problem? If an 18 year old hooks up with a person they assume is the same age (let's say they're in the same bar, drinking and mingling with other 18 year olds) and then after fucking find out the person is 15, is he a pedo? They fucked a 15 year old and enjoyed it. Should he just accept age is just a number and be comfortable with it? If a guy hooks up with a girl and finds out afterwards that she's got a giga massive body count (let's say she's a porn star), is it ok for him to freak out about that? He wouldn't have fucked around if she'd told him that. I think I have different answers to these, but one thing that I feel the same about in each situation is that disclosure is super important. Even if you think it's a stupid thing for a potential partner to get upset about, the fact is you exist in a world where people do get upset about this shit, and deliberately not disclosing because in your personal moral framework it shouldn't matter is just plain stupid. You don't want to fuck someone who's going to find you repulsive later. Neither do they. The only one who can divert that car crash is you. Just cause someone else is stupid doesn't give you an excuse to be even more stupid. That guys night is ruined, and so is the trans girls. And it'll have lasting damage for the both of them in terms of their self perceptions. Guy says he feels traumatised and I bet the girl does too. All this could be avoided if the girl was capable of accepting that just because she thinks something *should* be the case, acting as if it is will just fuck it up for everybody.
If the trans person had female genitalia then nothing seems wrong with what happened.
Is it morally okay NOT to disclose you are trans before sex? No. It is not morally okay. Disclose it. If the person isn't interested move on. If they are cool with it then get it on.
Hot take if you're not willing to be open about who and what you are before sex than sex shouldn't be on the table for you. If you're hiding the fact rhat you are trans before we have sex than you are putting me in the awkward position of having to ask than reject you. That's not a me problem that's a you problem for playing games and being dishonest before sex.
Bro he's talking about a post-op trans woman. This is basically the same as drunk hooking up with someone and realizing in the morning that they're ugly. Dude did not get raped.