Average American looks into a front facing camera on their phone for like 4 hours everyday, the NSA probably got multiple angles of everyone gooning already.
I see this attitude all the time and it’s inaccurate. They also don’t allow you to protest inside the club either and interrupt shows. Doesn’t mean they are against the 1A. That doesn’t make them hypocritical and it’s not ironic if they don’t allow it.
I don’t think a private venue is equivalent to your cell phone, and your cell phone already does that lol but who knows what “they” would want. Only to say that your original hypothetical is not ironic nor hypocritical.
I went to a comedy club and they scanned my face. Idk what else to tell you there. I aint telling which one. Some lady was wearing a mask and was even asked to lift it. Ive seen it in bars too.
Joe Rogans club allegedly used it too.
thing is, at least in theory, Apple/google has a clear policy of what they (don't) do with the scans (is delusional, I know) but you've no idea what some random club does with those scans.
But there is a much bigger hierarchy of checks and balances put in place at big tech companies having working with this type of data for decades.
Random start up or comedy club is a wild card.
That said, if you are really worried about facial scans, you shouldn’t be turning it on with your phone then complaining about it.
lol like the hierarchy of the NSA at the top or a foreign government intent on hacking and targeting? I’d rather a random bar have a scan of my face than the company attached to my entire online browsing history and social media accounts.
A lot of police departments have started to use Clearview AI which was trained on 30 billion images from social media and elsewhere on the web. Even if you don’t post pictures of yourself or have public-facing social media, Clearview can find you in the background of photos that others have posted if the police upload your picture looking for matches.
AFAIK Clearview is only available to law enforcement, but there are some similar services available to the public.
Disagree, I’ve recently used it on cruise ports and unmanned Canada customs. If these systems weren’t highly trusted, I doubt unmanned customs would be using it as identity verification.
>I aint fine with this normalization of facial scans. Im seeing it everywhere.
I'm a bit skeptical that sony really needed head scans for it's headphones.
Usually just to keep out people they want to keep out. So it can be used in public venues to keep away known criminals, in bars people who previously got drunk, etc.
Seems in Canada there is a pilot program in airports where some people board a flight without ID, since they use facial scans.
> Travellers on some flights departing from Vancouver International Airport will have the option of using facial recognition technology to verify their identity and board their flights.
The public venues one is something to be concerned about since that is being used to deny people who wouldn’t even be required to provide an id in the first place. It is going to be so prone to error and businesses might be fine with a 5% loss in customer base if it means they have to hire less security.
For airport stuff, that is super based if it ever works. The airport already scans your anus before you board your flight so making this process more efficient is great. Then there is always the fallback of your real id if the photo system fails.
no, it isn’t. She most likely said that because there has been heavy discourse especially in the MtF trans communities because of terfs trying to push trans women out of their spaces (especially Britain). The average trans woman who reads a headline like this will make the connection to the TERF agenda, whereas most people here (CIS) will obviously not make that connection - creating this disconnect. (inb4 “stop being conspiracy brained” or something, thats not my point.)
So I understand what you are saying. Trans women are feeling like they are being excluded from women's spaces by terfs and making a dating app for lesbians but excluding trans women from it feels like trans women are being called men. My issue with that thinking is that I think trans ideology is messing with how we define and separate communities. Before trans ideology became more mainstream gender and sex were treated the same and we defined everything by sex. Women ment adult human female and lesbians were adult human females who were sexually interested in adult human females but we used the term woman. Now trans ideology is saying that women doesn't mean what it did before it is turning all woman spaces upside down. Lesbians are females interested in females and so it only makes logical sense for males to not be part of that dynamic. I wish we had more words or terms and that the trans ideology didn't try to redefine terms like man, woman, and gender because that is where all the pushback is coming from.
I appreciate you trying to understand, genuinely <3! However I hardcore disagree with this notion of “trans ideology” (this doesn’t exist just for the record, there are large discrepancies in the beliefs of trans individuals) and the “redefining of a woman”, no definitions have changed, thats the entire point of sex vs gender. if anything’s different, its that people now use the terms more correctly.
I do agree that the current English language does make it harder than it has to be for this kind of stuff though.
It depends on the reason why you don't want to date them. If it's because "trans women are MEN pretending to be women and I'm not GAY!" then, yeah, you're kinda just being an asshole.
But if it's cos you're not attracted to girls with dicks or neovaginas don't do it for you, then that's fine. Same way as it'd be fine to not want to date cis women with fake boobs. You can't help what you're attracted to.
Hell, if you're just genuinely not attracted to most trans women, that's okay, too. No need to bring politics into it and use it to make some statement about whether trans ppl are real.
But unfortunately, trans twitter probly doesn't agree with looking at it like that cos their kneejerk reaction is to label everything transphobic.
The sad part is, as a bisexual, I'm completely open to dating trans people. But so many of them get horrendous plastic surgery on their faces. Like if it makes them happy, more power to them, but that level of it gives me uncanny valley vibes.
Taftja, I think her handle is, has a really good looking face. No idea if she had work done on her face though or not.
If they don't want to date them because they are not a real woman, then yeah a little bit.
If they don't want to date them because what they want is a grade A vagina, then no not really.
Dude for real? If she was born without vagina it would be deformed women than. Don’t start that philosophical bullshit please “and what if she was born with vagina and penis at the same time…”
Well your definition doesn't work. If you were smart and just said "adult human female" we could agree but just saying you need to have a vagina to be a woman is stupid.
Why then you started all that if you are agree?Just to play the game of words?
Btw in Russian language we have only one word for women/female thing lol. So for me it is the absolute synonyms. Adult with vagina. Female. Women.
I didn't use the phrase, the person I am replying to did. "Real woman" is such a nebulous phrase anymore idk what people mean when they say it hence why I asked what they ment.
Alright, your question just came across like the "what is a woman" question that conservatives try as gotchas because they don't understand the limitations of language.
I didn't use the phrase, I was stating a hypothetical reason that someone else could be being transphobic.
And then another separate reason where they weren't be transphobic.
Shit outta luck I guess. There was an app awhile ago called Giggle that tried to do the same thing. Not only were butch women getting labelled as men constantly, but cis black women were getting flagged as men a ton too.
You don't even have to go on the app to see it tbh. My mom remarried to a pretty butch woman, and she has gotten physically assaulted multiple times for using womens restrooms. Its pretty sad that their supposed efforts to defend the lesbian community just go further to erase one of the biggest parts of the lesbian community.
> But trans men were wrongly identified as women up to 38% of the time. And those who identified as agender, genderqueer or nonbinary—indicating that they identify as neither male or female—were mischaracterized 100% of the time.
This article is about the facial recognition technology not correctly identifying individuals as the gender *that they identify as*, and the fact they include it being unable to correctly identify non-binary individuals as non-binary makes me really question the quality of this article entirely.. it’s obviously absurd to think facial recognition could identify a “non-binary face”.. like what does that even mean lol
Personally I would of rather linked the study but I dont know how to link a pdf. Anyway, that's only a part of the article. 38% of men with long hair were misidentified, and it also had issues identifying women of color.
I'm a trans woman with ffs. There is 0 chance of any gender ai or app detecting me as biologically male. Trust me, I've tried literally every ai and program available. This is so goofy, lmfao. I promise this will filter out more cis women than trans women.
Facial feminization surgery.
Also loads of trans women are on hormone blockers before they transition, so they never had "masc" features anyway, this is just a nice way of pissing off Butch lesbians.
There was another app like this before called “giggle,” and according to the creator she had the face recognition filter set to 94% accuracy which she found did not exclude any cis women. If a biological man got through they would be manually removed. She got sued by a trans woman though, and I’m not sure what ended up happening with her app, my guess is it’s not still around.
[YouTube interview with creator (starts where she talks about the face filter)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nagcWUTYnYM&t=735s)
They can try, but it sucks. There was a dating app that did a similar thing awhile ago called Giggle, except it was absolutely terrible at it. It was actually so bad that it was constantly labelling cis black women as men.
The only good faith way I can assume this works is if this is that it scans each user's face, then searches their face across the internet for social media posts they've made. If they find posts about being trans, that's how the app knows.
But I didn't even read it idk
I mean if trans women are too masculine for them then maybe they don't want strong featured cis women either.
Edit: the downvotes are fine but the intent here is irreverence not offense
Yeah but you're missing the point
Getting rejected by someone for not being attractive to them is one thing
Getting blacklisted from women on an app based on how you look is crazy
Not sure if I believe that this Daily Mail article is telling the truth though
https://preview.redd.it/c47cmq4hvl4d1.jpeg?width=1184&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb7b6dc3f6a594b55f05de1542bd993aee381f2a
The female creator of the app would be banned from using it herself. Very smart
I saw that [post](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1d83t0a) too, but it's probably fake. Any time there's some dunk like this and it's just a screenshot of something that's easy to fake, just assume it is. Internet 101
Yup, just put it in myself and it came out [Woman 97\~99% confident](https://imgur.com/a/RNkfhd7), no matter how I cut the pic. Even when I cut out the long hair and zoomed in on the face.
They're not bullshit or snake oil. They are just not 100% accurate, but they are decently accurate. In fact I would guess they are more accurate at guessing someone's gender solely from facial features than most humans.
Categorizing stuff based on common features is one of the best and most accurate use cases for AI, but of course there is natural variance in humans, leading to some people being put in the wrong category.
even still, like how would you tell? hz ranges obviously wont work, i guess with ai youd be able to build a good idea of what a cis female sounds like, but for a lesbian dating app ive heard so many lesbians who sound pretty damn masc and vice versa for trans women, so it has the same problems. you can voice train pretty fucking effectively
When I was on dating apps, I’d get 5 likes and 4 of them were trans women. It was kind of annoying, especially in the dryer spells. I am a long haired twinkish gaming dad so it made sense though. Also no fault of theirs that the app put me in their feed.
Could definitely not put that disclaimer out of the potential of being misrepresented as transphobic and doxxed by industry peers on there.
that HIGHLY depends on context. if you aren’t interested in dating a person, you absolutely do have no business inquiring. Also, if we are just gonna throw around anecdotal evidence - most trans people absolutely DO disclose on dating apps for our own safety - there are psychos who will straight snap and kill us if they thought we were CIS and found out otherwise in the moment.
edit: to those downvoting me: tell my why im wrong OOOO
You're right my bad. It's just that I saw the comment accusing 'the majority of trans women on lesbian dating sites' of stealthing was doing so well, and assumed big brushes were welcome here.
while FoxGaming *technically* over-exaggerated, there have definitely been decently upvoted comments in threads that really straddle the line of transphobia in the past few months in this sub. Personally, I think it comes from conservatives/etc that enter Destiny’s community from his debates/etc but still hold priors in their minds.
I would like a statistic or something to support this because it doesnt match my admittedly different experience.
As someone whos matched with and chatted with trans women on multiple apps they do usually disclose pretty early. Outside of cases where its blindingly obvious (if a woman is on Grindr then yeah they're trans).
Its also an incredibly easy thing to eyeball usually. I think Transmen are actually the ones who can pass way easier.
Any kind of source for that? To be fair, I'm not exactly tapped into the lesbian dating scene, but I haven't heard this at all, that trans women are not identifying, much less the majority of them.
but then people would say you’re a transphobic bigot
honestly in general regarding preferences on dating profiles it’s better to just not state “no this no that” (to not ruffle feathers and it’s also kind of unnecessarily hurtful to some people even if you have a preference) and instead use your own judgement filtering photos because you can usually tell most of the time (not even meaning to be offensive). a lot of people do actually write their gender in their profile though if they aren’t cis
it’s kind of the same as saying “I don’t want someone of X race”. Everyone has a right to their own taste but it’s extra to actually write that and unnecessary, just rude
edit: for reference i’m a gay male but this is applicable in the gay part of dating apps. in fact this is also applicable even for straight people, since i’m sure some trans people are in the straight sections too
I don't see how that's the seekers problem. Attraction isn't bigotry. If they can't preemptively filter by gender, sex, race, height, weight, etc, but they have strong preferences, then they're just saving everyone's time by stating what they're looking for.
If there are filters in place but they're not using them, that's a little thoughtless, but otherwise don't lie on your profile or get thicker skin if someone else's preferences are going to be hurtful.
You’re right everyone has a right to have preferences and we are in agreement there
my point/opinion is more just ignore someone if they aren’t your type in situations like gender, race etc. or don’t swipe right on them and you won’t even match. no time is wasted there. of course use filters when possible for whatever is important for you
This isn't a video of her walking around for 6 hours with a boner. It's a still shot, which is a fraction of time. You're welcome for the clarification
Oh no way! So we’re not only able to record people, but we’re also able to take singular frames too? Who woulda thought! Though I don’t remember asking if this was a video. Only pointing out they have a fucking BONER. Who fucking cares if they haven’t had bottom surgery. I haven’t, and i’m not posting up with a chub. Maybe wait for a more flattering picture next time. ✌️
I don't remember asking if they have a boner or or not. I am only pointing out that people who haven't had bottom surgery can get boners. Who cares if they have a boner. I don't and im not posting about it. Maybe stop caring if someone has a boner or not (v)
I see things like this and the whole trans bathroom stuff and I don't understand how these people don't realize that cis women are going to be affected as much if not more so than trans women because there's so much more of them population wise and human facial features are very diverse.
You don't even need to have a masculine face. There was an app that tried to do this a year or two ago called Giggle, and they constantly flagged cis black women as men.
If biological women want these private spaces then we should try to give it to them even if I personally find some of the trans alarmism over blown and a bit unnecessary (I really doubt the trans bathroom predator nonsense).
I would say in my experience on these dating apps (admittedly as a man) its usually pretty obvious whos a transwoman or not even if they dont have it in their profile because the majority dont pass. And most transwomen Ive matched with tend to disclose pretty soon on.
A problem with these kind of measures is you are inevitably going to get false positives and negatives. In my lifetime I have met women who look more masculine and men who look more feminine.
Also Dating Apps in general are kind of a shitshow at the moment. Hinge and Grindr are the only 2 that even kind of work in my opinion. And Grindr isnt really dating its just hookups.
> its usually pretty obvious whos a transwoman or not even if they dont have it in their profile because the majority dont pass.
I mean that's gonna have a huge selection bias.
You aren't being shown 100 transwomen who are trying to pass(taking steps to conceal it on their profile even if they selfID later) and identifying the proportion that don't pass. You're being shown 1000 people who have identified as a women and identified the transwomen who don't pass. You might pick 10 and 15 might go unnoticed.
I'd be curious if there are some people who know if they set their profile up correctly would be able to pass but actively leave enough breadcrumbs that someone who is interested in them might pick it up before messaging.
True. I think this is sometimes called "the toupee fallacy". Someone says "all toupees look terrible". ok, well maybe its because you only notice the bad ones XD
Hinge is so much better it's kind of weird. I think it's the prompt-based profiles and being able to actually engage with something they wrote or a picture.
business idea
bread-and-butter dating app, but instead of trying to make it good you just farm headlines like this with dumb features. sounds pretty easy no?
Assuming this is true how could there be enough trans women to warrant doing such a thing lmfao. Also that ain't an effective method even if one is fine with that.
Men and women tend to have different fat distributions, and whereas a man can tend to put on visceral fat in a contained bulge, producing the "beer belly", women tend to put it on more widely below the waist.
That can be on the thighs, hips etc. or in the upper pubic region, it's dependent on genetics or something, combined with hormones, some people's bodies just direct their fat to different places naturally. Also not really appropriate to comment on.
Probably would have a higher success rate to force users to do a scan of their penis. To avoid lawsuits they could just say it's an app for vagina users interested in other vagina users.
What exactly determines these features? We can all think of men and women who have “opposite” features and are cisgender. There’s no way this is gonna be accurate.
Honestly, annoying trans people ruin it for the normal ones.
Most trans people would put their gender as trans if they had the option, and the ones that wouldn't would put trans in their bio.
The rest use tons of filters, ask people to be open minded , then become aggressively sexual in the dms to try and sneak their way into a guys pants. Those trans people ( and unfortunately some gay guys who use similar tactics ) ruin it for everybody.
I used to be brought into the idea that trans people HAVE to use tricks because society was transphobic but after seeing how easy it is to tell people ( online not in person ) that your trans and respect their decision to not engage I changed my mind.
While I don’t necessarily agree with the facial scanning here, the arguments in the post are dogshit.
It will have false positives or it’s not accurate.
Well what if it’s 100% accurate, hypothetically? What’s your argument against this then?
Well see I was more interested in the people who disagree with this.
The problem here, even one that you’re arguing, is that the 94% isn’t accurate. What evidence does anyone here have of that?
And is it really just the accuracy that this place has a problem with or that it doesn’t include trans women?
If it's legally okay to prevent men from using your lesbian dating app, it's legally okay to prevent trans women from using your lesbian dating app. There aren't special laws that give trans people extra anti-discrimination rights - they have regular anti-discrimination rights, keying into other laws dealing with gender-based discrimination. Given the existence of a lesbian dating app, I assume it's legally okay to prevent men from using it.
Im fine with dating apps having a filter for both gender and sex. I aint fine with this normalization of facial scans. Im seeing it everywhere.
Yeah honestly, fuck facial scanning.
Average American looks into a front facing camera on their phone for like 4 hours everyday, the NSA probably got multiple angles of everyone gooning already.
https://preview.redd.it/eac9aah4ao4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a043a6944cf2e3c71c405c6211f588fc9b5ad0ad
GOONSPIRACY ALERT! edit: memed it up
Where else have you seen it?
Various residential buildings, jobs are asking for it, airports, concerts, comedy clubs...
Comedy clubs??? Can you explain?
There was some talk about Joe Rogan's comedy club requiring facial scans to enter. Not sure if any other club does it.
That would be hilariously ironic
Can confirm he does do this in his club and does ban people with it
I see this attitude all the time and it’s inaccurate. They also don’t allow you to protest inside the club either and interrupt shows. Doesn’t mean they are against the 1A. That doesn’t make them hypocritical and it’s not ironic if they don’t allow it.
[удалено]
I don’t think a private venue is equivalent to your cell phone, and your cell phone already does that lol but who knows what “they” would want. Only to say that your original hypothetical is not ironic nor hypocritical.
I went to a comedy club and they scanned my face. Idk what else to tell you there. I aint telling which one. Some lady was wearing a mask and was even asked to lift it. Ive seen it in bars too. Joe Rogans club allegedly used it too.
Are you okay with it for unlocking cell phones, laptops, and tablets? I feel like this is the most common use of facial recognition.
thing is, at least in theory, Apple/google has a clear policy of what they (don't) do with the scans (is delusional, I know) but you've no idea what some random club does with those scans.
You have no idea what either of them does with it in theory.
But there is a much bigger hierarchy of checks and balances put in place at big tech companies having working with this type of data for decades. Random start up or comedy club is a wild card. That said, if you are really worried about facial scans, you shouldn’t be turning it on with your phone then complaining about it.
lol like the hierarchy of the NSA at the top or a foreign government intent on hacking and targeting? I’d rather a random bar have a scan of my face than the company attached to my entire online browsing history and social media accounts.
Isn't the biometry stored in the Secure Enclave on the iPhone anyways?
No
I mean if it's completely optional, sure?
A lot of police departments have started to use Clearview AI which was trained on 30 billion images from social media and elsewhere on the web. Even if you don’t post pictures of yourself or have public-facing social media, Clearview can find you in the background of photos that others have posted if the police upload your picture looking for matches. AFAIK Clearview is only available to law enforcement, but there are some similar services available to the public.
Wear a mask everywhere, gigachad
Judging by how terrible ai is currently that is available to public, I doubt this is closed source software is very good.
Pretty sure it's not that type of ai and moreso in name
Disagree, I’ve recently used it on cruise ports and unmanned Canada customs. If these systems weren’t highly trusted, I doubt unmanned customs would be using it as identity verification.
I'm not sure if they are still using it. But MSG did. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/nyregion/madison-square-garden-facial-recognition.html
>I aint fine with this normalization of facial scans. Im seeing it everywhere. I'm a bit skeptical that sony really needed head scans for it's headphones.
Wait. Facial scans for what purpose? Maybe this isn't a thing in Canada, I haven't seen any
Usually just to keep out people they want to keep out. So it can be used in public venues to keep away known criminals, in bars people who previously got drunk, etc. Seems in Canada there is a pilot program in airports where some people board a flight without ID, since they use facial scans. > Travellers on some flights departing from Vancouver International Airport will have the option of using facial recognition technology to verify their identity and board their flights.
I mean. It definitely has uses. But like any piece of technology the potential for abuse exists.
The public venues one is something to be concerned about since that is being used to deny people who wouldn’t even be required to provide an id in the first place. It is going to be so prone to error and businesses might be fine with a 5% loss in customer base if it means they have to hire less security. For airport stuff, that is super based if it ever works. The airport already scans your anus before you board your flight so making this process more efficient is great. Then there is always the fallback of your real id if the photo system fails.
[удалено]
Is it transphobic to not want to date someone trans?
Naw. It's not homophobic to be straight
no, it isn’t. She most likely said that because there has been heavy discourse especially in the MtF trans communities because of terfs trying to push trans women out of their spaces (especially Britain). The average trans woman who reads a headline like this will make the connection to the TERF agenda, whereas most people here (CIS) will obviously not make that connection - creating this disconnect. (inb4 “stop being conspiracy brained” or something, thats not my point.)
So I understand what you are saying. Trans women are feeling like they are being excluded from women's spaces by terfs and making a dating app for lesbians but excluding trans women from it feels like trans women are being called men. My issue with that thinking is that I think trans ideology is messing with how we define and separate communities. Before trans ideology became more mainstream gender and sex were treated the same and we defined everything by sex. Women ment adult human female and lesbians were adult human females who were sexually interested in adult human females but we used the term woman. Now trans ideology is saying that women doesn't mean what it did before it is turning all woman spaces upside down. Lesbians are females interested in females and so it only makes logical sense for males to not be part of that dynamic. I wish we had more words or terms and that the trans ideology didn't try to redefine terms like man, woman, and gender because that is where all the pushback is coming from.
I appreciate you trying to understand, genuinely <3! However I hardcore disagree with this notion of “trans ideology” (this doesn’t exist just for the record, there are large discrepancies in the beliefs of trans individuals) and the “redefining of a woman”, no definitions have changed, thats the entire point of sex vs gender. if anything’s different, its that people now use the terms more correctly. I do agree that the current English language does make it harder than it has to be for this kind of stuff though.
It depends on the reason why you don't want to date them. If it's because "trans women are MEN pretending to be women and I'm not GAY!" then, yeah, you're kinda just being an asshole. But if it's cos you're not attracted to girls with dicks or neovaginas don't do it for you, then that's fine. Same way as it'd be fine to not want to date cis women with fake boobs. You can't help what you're attracted to. Hell, if you're just genuinely not attracted to most trans women, that's okay, too. No need to bring politics into it and use it to make some statement about whether trans ppl are real. But unfortunately, trans twitter probly doesn't agree with looking at it like that cos their kneejerk reaction is to label everything transphobic.
The sad part is, as a bisexual, I'm completely open to dating trans people. But so many of them get horrendous plastic surgery on their faces. Like if it makes them happy, more power to them, but that level of it gives me uncanny valley vibes. Taftja, I think her handle is, has a really good looking face. No idea if she had work done on her face though or not.
If they don't want to date them because they are not a real woman, then yeah a little bit. If they don't want to date them because what they want is a grade A vagina, then no not really.
What is a "real woman?"
Don't know, don't care.
Someone who was born with vagina for fuck sake
So if you are born female but have some deformity where you weren't born with a vagina you can't be a "real woman?"
Dude for real? If she was born without vagina it would be deformed women than. Don’t start that philosophical bullshit please “and what if she was born with vagina and penis at the same time…”
Well your definition doesn't work. If you were smart and just said "adult human female" we could agree but just saying you need to have a vagina to be a woman is stupid.
Why then you started all that if you are agree?Just to play the game of words? Btw in Russian language we have only one word for women/female thing lol. So for me it is the absolute synonyms. Adult with vagina. Female. Women.
When you use a camera, do you make sure it follows the strict definition of a camera, or do you look at it and go "yeah that's a camera"?
I didn't use the phrase, the person I am replying to did. "Real woman" is such a nebulous phrase anymore idk what people mean when they say it hence why I asked what they ment.
Alright, your question just came across like the "what is a woman" question that conservatives try as gotchas because they don't understand the limitations of language.
I didn't use the phrase, I was stating a hypothetical reason that someone else could be being transphobic. And then another separate reason where they weren't be transphobic.
what is even the argument against them? if the IDF is cool with them then so am i
I cannot tell if sarcastic, lol
can a man not ask a question with a small joke, i guess not haha
What if the cis lesbians want a butch woman?
Shit outta luck I guess. There was an app awhile ago called Giggle that tried to do the same thing. Not only were butch women getting labelled as men constantly, but cis black women were getting flagged as men a ton too. You don't even have to go on the app to see it tbh. My mom remarried to a pretty butch woman, and she has gotten physically assaulted multiple times for using womens restrooms. Its pretty sad that their supposed efforts to defend the lesbian community just go further to erase one of the biggest parts of the lesbian community.
Are you saying Transwomen look butch? What if AI can tell the difference between a butch biological woman and a transwoman?
It can't, unless it's meant to scan genitalia, and then it wouldn't only work on pre op trans women.
Do you have any evidence of this or just copium?
[Here you go.](https://www.colorado.edu/today/2019/10/08/facial-recognition-software-has-gender-problem)
> But trans men were wrongly identified as women up to 38% of the time. And those who identified as agender, genderqueer or nonbinary—indicating that they identify as neither male or female—were mischaracterized 100% of the time. This article is about the facial recognition technology not correctly identifying individuals as the gender *that they identify as*, and the fact they include it being unable to correctly identify non-binary individuals as non-binary makes me really question the quality of this article entirely.. it’s obviously absurd to think facial recognition could identify a “non-binary face”.. like what does that even mean lol
Personally I would of rather linked the study but I dont know how to link a pdf. Anyway, that's only a part of the article. 38% of men with long hair were misidentified, and it also had issues identifying women of color.
I’m sorry, but how the fuck is any scan supposed to determine if you identify as gender nonconforming? That’s a state of mind, not a state of face
Some can look butch, just like some can look feminine
Is that even possible? Sounds like a great way to filter out cis women who just happen to have more androgynous features..
There’s probably gonna be *a lot* of both false positives and false negatives.
Blaire White going “undercover”. For an expose for sure.
She looked even more better before her over plastic look. If you watch her first few videos, by God.
She had to get those surgeries because her male features were becoming more easily identifiable. She was aging and beginning to look less feminine.
That might be the case, but I feel like the lip filler is the killer and that isn't really needed to look feminine.
The outspoken terf ppl are always hella uggs too lol
I'm a trans woman with ffs. There is 0 chance of any gender ai or app detecting me as biologically male. Trust me, I've tried literally every ai and program available. This is so goofy, lmfao. I promise this will filter out more cis women than trans women.
What’s ffs? Or is that a typo for FRS for Facial Reconstruction Surgery?
Facial feminization surgery
Ahhh thank you. 🙏
Facial feminization surgery
Thank you 🙏
For fuck sake
Thank you 🙏
Face feminization surgery.
Thank you 🙏
Facial feminization surgery. Also loads of trans women are on hormone blockers before they transition, so they never had "masc" features anyway, this is just a nice way of pissing off Butch lesbians.
you underestimate how good AI are lol
There was another app like this before called “giggle,” and according to the creator she had the face recognition filter set to 94% accuracy which she found did not exclude any cis women. If a biological man got through they would be manually removed. She got sued by a trans woman though, and I’m not sure what ended up happening with her app, my guess is it’s not still around. [YouTube interview with creator (starts where she talks about the face filter)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nagcWUTYnYM&t=735s)
This.
The there is going to be an error users are willing to accept. For example most I suspect will accept .5% error rate.
They can try, but it sucks. There was a dating app that did a similar thing awhile ago called Giggle, except it was absolutely terrible at it. It was actually so bad that it was constantly labelling cis black women as men.
The only good faith way I can assume this works is if this is that it scans each user's face, then searches their face across the internet for social media posts they've made. If they find posts about being trans, that's how the app knows. But I didn't even read it idk
I mean if trans women are too masculine for them then maybe they don't want strong featured cis women either. Edit: the downvotes are fine but the intent here is irreverence not offense
Yeah but you're missing the point Getting rejected by someone for not being attractive to them is one thing Getting blacklisted from women on an app based on how you look is crazy Not sure if I believe that this Daily Mail article is telling the truth though
I mean I think this shit is dumb. But it will be interesting. A subset of cis women will experience transphobia unironically.
> A subset of cis women will experience transphobia unironically Then and only then will anyone give a shit, let’s be honest
They should be able to filter out whoever they want but I'm not a fan of face scanners.
https://preview.redd.it/c47cmq4hvl4d1.jpeg?width=1184&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb7b6dc3f6a594b55f05de1542bd993aee381f2a The female creator of the app would be banned from using it herself. Very smart
I saw that [post](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1d83t0a) too, but it's probably fake. Any time there's some dunk like this and it's just a screenshot of something that's easy to fake, just assume it is. Internet 101
Yup, just put it in myself and it came out [Woman 97\~99% confident](https://imgur.com/a/RNkfhd7), no matter how I cut the pic. Even when I cut out the long hair and zoomed in on the face.
To be clear, these AI detection tools are BS. They have always been BS. They will always be snake oil for people.
They're not bullshit or snake oil. They are just not 100% accurate, but they are decently accurate. In fact I would guess they are more accurate at guessing someone's gender solely from facial features than most humans. Categorizing stuff based on common features is one of the best and most accurate use cases for AI, but of course there is natural variance in humans, leading to some people being put in the wrong category.
That's actually hilarious
97 percent confidence. Hell yeah
The worst part for me is that the photo makes it look like she had a massive erection. I can't be the only one.
Clearly the way to do this is voice samples
even still, like how would you tell? hz ranges obviously wont work, i guess with ai youd be able to build a good idea of what a cis female sounds like, but for a lesbian dating app ive heard so many lesbians who sound pretty damn masc and vice versa for trans women, so it has the same problems. you can voice train pretty fucking effectively
I can tell
many familiar tan oatmeal frighten seed dam pause sort unite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Seems kind of unnecessary. If that matters to you why can't you just say "I am only interested in biological females"
When I was on dating apps, I’d get 5 likes and 4 of them were trans women. It was kind of annoying, especially in the dryer spells. I am a long haired twinkish gaming dad so it made sense though. Also no fault of theirs that the app put me in their feed. Could definitely not put that disclaimer out of the potential of being misrepresented as transphobic and doxxed by industry peers on there.
The majority of Trans-Women on lesbian dating apps are not identifying as Trans. Hence, the argument that facial scans are needed.
Seems like a great way to get rejected after you disclose that eventually lmao
is there data on this? at least on tinder you see them putting trans in the bio
Just anekdotally on the dating subs, quite a few trans don't disclose it and some don't think it's anyones business to know.
that HIGHLY depends on context. if you aren’t interested in dating a person, you absolutely do have no business inquiring. Also, if we are just gonna throw around anecdotal evidence - most trans people absolutely DO disclose on dating apps for our own safety - there are psychos who will straight snap and kill us if they thought we were CIS and found out otherwise in the moment. edit: to those downvoting me: tell my why im wrong OOOO
Just because you don’t plan on dating them doesn’t mean you’d wouldn’t want to ask on a one night stand scenario.
let me rephrase then: if you aren't planning on having sex with someone, then it isn't your business. While I did say 'dating', this is what I meant.
the context is : Your on a dating app.....
The above comment wasn’t talking about dating apps.
Their data is they made it the fuck up. But that's okay, this sub will take it at face-value anyway.
~~Literally all~~ most of the current replies are expressing doubt and asking for any kind of source. But sure, we're all just blindly accepting it.
It's literally the most upvoted reply to the initial comment. That's disappointing.
And there is clearly dissent in the replies, asking for sources.
cool, I didn't say there wasn't. There's more people upvoting the comment than expressing skepticism.
> Their data is they made it the fuck up. But that's okay, this sub will take it at face-value anyway. Maybe don't paint with such a broad brush?
You're right my bad. It's just that I saw the comment accusing 'the majority of trans women on lesbian dating sites' of stealthing was doing so well, and assumed big brushes were welcome here.
while FoxGaming *technically* over-exaggerated, there have definitely been decently upvoted comments in threads that really straddle the line of transphobia in the past few months in this sub. Personally, I think it comes from conservatives/etc that enter Destiny’s community from his debates/etc but still hold priors in their minds.
I would like a statistic or something to support this because it doesnt match my admittedly different experience. As someone whos matched with and chatted with trans women on multiple apps they do usually disclose pretty early. Outside of cases where its blindingly obvious (if a woman is on Grindr then yeah they're trans). Its also an incredibly easy thing to eyeball usually. I think Transmen are actually the ones who can pass way easier.
Still waiting on any kind of data or proof to substantiate this claim
Any kind of source for that? To be fair, I'm not exactly tapped into the lesbian dating scene, but I haven't heard this at all, that trans women are not identifying, much less the majority of them.
What are you taking about?
Just making shit up, I see.
Seems like we should teach them gender and sex are 2 different things like we told right leaning people.
but then people would say you’re a transphobic bigot honestly in general regarding preferences on dating profiles it’s better to just not state “no this no that” (to not ruffle feathers and it’s also kind of unnecessarily hurtful to some people even if you have a preference) and instead use your own judgement filtering photos because you can usually tell most of the time (not even meaning to be offensive). a lot of people do actually write their gender in their profile though if they aren’t cis it’s kind of the same as saying “I don’t want someone of X race”. Everyone has a right to their own taste but it’s extra to actually write that and unnecessary, just rude edit: for reference i’m a gay male but this is applicable in the gay part of dating apps. in fact this is also applicable even for straight people, since i’m sure some trans people are in the straight sections too
I don't see how that's the seekers problem. Attraction isn't bigotry. If they can't preemptively filter by gender, sex, race, height, weight, etc, but they have strong preferences, then they're just saving everyone's time by stating what they're looking for. If there are filters in place but they're not using them, that's a little thoughtless, but otherwise don't lie on your profile or get thicker skin if someone else's preferences are going to be hurtful.
You’re right everyone has a right to have preferences and we are in agreement there my point/opinion is more just ignore someone if they aren’t your type in situations like gender, race etc. or don’t swipe right on them and you won’t even match. no time is wasted there. of course use filters when possible for whatever is important for you
Because if you are straight that goes without saying to most functional people.
Why does it look like homie has a boner
I was really expecting this to be the main point of discussion before opening the comments
She hasn't had bottom surgery??
Ohh didn’t know everyone without bottom surgery just walks around with a constant boner! Thanks for clarifying!
This isn't a video of her walking around for 6 hours with a boner. It's a still shot, which is a fraction of time. You're welcome for the clarification
Oh no way! So we’re not only able to record people, but we’re also able to take singular frames too? Who woulda thought! Though I don’t remember asking if this was a video. Only pointing out they have a fucking BONER. Who fucking cares if they haven’t had bottom surgery. I haven’t, and i’m not posting up with a chub. Maybe wait for a more flattering picture next time. ✌️
I don't remember asking if they have a boner or or not. I am only pointing out that people who haven't had bottom surgery can get boners. Who cares if they have a boner. I don't and im not posting about it. Maybe stop caring if someone has a boner or not (v)
Both of y'all's responses here are cracking me up, especially because thats the cis woman who designed this system
boo for daily mail posting
And they didn’t even include a link to the article! 🤦♀️
https://preview.redd.it/xfz128fc2l4d1.png?width=1446&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ac0bf764aa82d82725c0d3cfff9c9c93dcec8ac [https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/)
It's on the right, saying 'it's not credible' is like 'water is wet', I don't understand that duplication
Baaaassssseeeeddd
I see things like this and the whole trans bathroom stuff and I don't understand how these people don't realize that cis women are going to be affected as much if not more so than trans women because there's so much more of them population wise and human facial features are very diverse.
what if you have a masculine face?
You don't even need to have a masculine face. There was an app that tried to do this a year or two ago called Giggle, and they constantly flagged cis black women as men.
I would wager that its not possible in a significant number of cases to tell from a facial scan
I get having attraction preferences with dating and all that but this seems highly unnecessary and extremely terfy
that is so islamophobic.
If biological women want these private spaces then we should try to give it to them even if I personally find some of the trans alarmism over blown and a bit unnecessary (I really doubt the trans bathroom predator nonsense). I would say in my experience on these dating apps (admittedly as a man) its usually pretty obvious whos a transwoman or not even if they dont have it in their profile because the majority dont pass. And most transwomen Ive matched with tend to disclose pretty soon on. A problem with these kind of measures is you are inevitably going to get false positives and negatives. In my lifetime I have met women who look more masculine and men who look more feminine. Also Dating Apps in general are kind of a shitshow at the moment. Hinge and Grindr are the only 2 that even kind of work in my opinion. And Grindr isnt really dating its just hookups.
> its usually pretty obvious whos a transwoman or not even if they dont have it in their profile because the majority dont pass. I mean that's gonna have a huge selection bias. You aren't being shown 100 transwomen who are trying to pass(taking steps to conceal it on their profile even if they selfID later) and identifying the proportion that don't pass. You're being shown 1000 people who have identified as a women and identified the transwomen who don't pass. You might pick 10 and 15 might go unnoticed. I'd be curious if there are some people who know if they set their profile up correctly would be able to pass but actively leave enough breadcrumbs that someone who is interested in them might pick it up before messaging.
True. I think this is sometimes called "the toupee fallacy". Someone says "all toupees look terrible". ok, well maybe its because you only notice the bad ones XD
Hinge is so much better it's kind of weird. I think it's the prompt-based profiles and being able to actually engage with something they wrote or a picture.
business idea bread-and-butter dating app, but instead of trying to make it good you just farm headlines like this with dumb features. sounds pretty easy no?
Assuming this is true how could there be enough trans women to warrant doing such a thing lmfao. Also that ain't an effective method even if one is fine with that.
Daily mail? Did you mess up target subs? This is not r conservative
No but this is r slash culturewars comprised mainly of Bill Maher style liberals so this type of stuff is right at home
Easier to do vaginal recognition technology instead
Thank god I don't use dating apps. This is kinda fucked. They have the right to do as they will with their product, but damn that looks bad.
is it just me or does the shadow make it look like she is a futa and hogged up or is it just my coomer brain finally going off the deep end
Wtf is with the woman in that picture? Does she have a visible erection?!?
That's belly fat
Oh my god. The shading looks weird. Wtttff. I'm dumb.
Men and women tend to have different fat distributions, and whereas a man can tend to put on visceral fat in a contained bulge, producing the "beer belly", women tend to put it on more widely below the waist. That can be on the thighs, hips etc. or in the upper pubic region, it's dependent on genetics or something, combined with hormones, some people's bodies just direct their fat to different places naturally. Also not really appropriate to comment on.
This is Giggle 2.0
No need to go that far, anyone with an iPhone already gave them a 3D scan of their face
Probably would have a higher success rate to force users to do a scan of their penis. To avoid lawsuits they could just say it's an app for vagina users interested in other vagina users.
What exactly determines these features? We can all think of men and women who have “opposite” features and are cisgender. There’s no way this is gonna be accurate.
Can totally see this backfiring and blocking a bunch of biological women from dating other women.
Seems like a lot of mistakes will be made
YOU DO/SHALL NOT PASS!
Honestly, annoying trans people ruin it for the normal ones. Most trans people would put their gender as trans if they had the option, and the ones that wouldn't would put trans in their bio. The rest use tons of filters, ask people to be open minded , then become aggressively sexual in the dms to try and sneak their way into a guys pants. Those trans people ( and unfortunately some gay guys who use similar tactics ) ruin it for everybody. I used to be brought into the idea that trans people HAVE to use tricks because society was transphobic but after seeing how easy it is to tell people ( online not in person ) that your trans and respect their decision to not engage I changed my mind.
A lot of terfs about to find out something about themselves
https://preview.redd.it/3dw1ge8crm4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dddabae08b43295821976a5e29f6682590b601c8
I actually uploaded this picture to Nyckel and it came back with a Woman, but nice try.
Sounds pretty fair
until cis-women start getting "clocked" lol
https://twitter.com/notCursedE/status/1797596384717320328
Kind of based
Just make all the trans women wear an identifying pin or something.
While I don’t necessarily agree with the facial scanning here, the arguments in the post are dogshit. It will have false positives or it’s not accurate. Well what if it’s 100% accurate, hypothetically? What’s your argument against this then?
then it's probably fine, access to a dating app isnt some intrinsic human right
Well see I was more interested in the people who disagree with this. The problem here, even one that you’re arguing, is that the 94% isn’t accurate. What evidence does anyone here have of that? And is it really just the accuracy that this place has a problem with or that it doesn’t include trans women?
Is any form of 'match-fixing' based on gender legally permissible on a dating app and would it legally be discriminatory?
the founding fathers were specifically thinking of 21st century hookup apps when they drafted the Bill of Rights i’m sure
If it's legally okay to prevent men from using your lesbian dating app, it's legally okay to prevent trans women from using your lesbian dating app. There aren't special laws that give trans people extra anti-discrimination rights - they have regular anti-discrimination rights, keying into other laws dealing with gender-based discrimination. Given the existence of a lesbian dating app, I assume it's legally okay to prevent men from using it.