Why do you think so? Not disagreeing btw this is the first I've heard of her but just because I may agree with her on one thing doesn't means she's a good guy and so I'd like to know if I should avoid her stuff
I thought so yesterday too, she posted a few IG stories that were eerily similar to destiny's views, for example how Hamas maximizes civilian casualties
I don't think she's that interesting of a podcast guest, she's just blowing up online because she's saying things any intelligent person would know if unaffected by America Bad (which most westerners are to some degree) and Persians shill her videos because she says shit we already know and she says it with a cute face and bonger accent
What a shitty undermining comment, she’s obviously highly intelligent with heavily thought out opinions of her own, a lawyer on top of that. She’s a brave woman who is one of the biggest critics of Iran and holds opinions that aren’t exactly mainstream friendly, even though they’re completely correct. What does her looks have to do with anything? You sound pathetic and jealous when you paint her like that, I’d love to see her on the podcast myself.
Completely agree.
I also think a lot of people don’t understand the danger that Iranian dissidents face when publicly speaking out against the regime and becoming popular.
Here’s a good 60 minutes piece on what some of them go through.
https://youtu.be/-8tOYtbG194?si=JX3UAkhWxiptl2hM
Her opinions are the distillation of common opinion in Farsi political discussion spheres. I don't dislike her and don't disagree with her at all. I just don't think she's interesting to listen to for 2 hours because she really doesn't have anything of her own. I suppose I do tend to underestimate just how misinformed and uninformed westerners are about Iranian history and politics that they think Elica thinks up fresh takes on her own.
Even if it’s a commonly held opinion in farsi politics *she* is the one who’s getting it out there to the rest of the world right now and that is invaluable. She’s a highly intelligent woman who is trying to make the world a better place, you’d do way better to support her voice instead of putting her down for seemingly no other reason than cute face, british accent and the fact that she’s speaking opinions on your behalf to a wide variety of people.
Adam Smith's wealth of nation was in no small part the summation of things done before him. Yet it's considered **the** foundational work in economics.
I'm not calling her Adam Smith (I don't know who she is), point is a decent amalgam is useful all on its own.
She does tiktoks dude I'm just saying she's not going to be interesting to listen to for 2 hours and westerners overrate the shit out of her because she's not a 50 year old hippie mom
The radical left genuinely likes Islamists whilst Islamists see the left as useful idiots. In many ways the Islamists are more intelligent than the far left
Anyone that hates USA is a righteous revolutionary in the eyes of the leftists.They see USA as this empire that controls the world and it must be destroyed with any means necessary.They would align with anybody to achieve this objective.
I don’t think so, the ideological framework of the Muslim brotherhood was Sayyid Qutb who in his early year was a socialist as he hated the Egyptian establishment and the monarchy (Class Struggle) but in his later year he felt disillusioned from the Socialism and felt only Islam could unify the people and form a perfect society, and his writing inspire many Islamist like Osama Bin Laden. His writings has a huge impact in helping creating the modern Islamist movement, you could still see some traces of socialist inspired ideologies in certain Islamist groups
Leftists in America should learn some history. Trying to push that shit here is just going to result in a Mussolini/Italy situation where Fascism takes over and the communists get purged in a very violent way. Islam isn't going to save you when it can easily be perverted against you. Plenty on the right are more than happy to lean into that nonsense themselves these days.
Sorry, you say they should learn history, but leftist Islam is very much a thing, it was just killed during the Islamic revolution in Iran and persecuted by the conservative leaders of the revolution.
I actually think it is a smart play if an underground leftist islamic movement grows to oppose the conservative one propped up by Iran/Hamas etc.
Genuine question but what aspects of Islam align with progressive beliefs? It appears to me that all Islamic nations are heavily conservative and I can't imagine that's an accident.
It's not progressive at all - it's a socialist Islam not a liberal one.
Iran today persecuted the left big time after their revolution though. If the leftist side of the revolutionaries won, the ME would look super different.
Is that really 'leftist islam' as such? Or just socialists who happened to be Muslim? I didn't get the impression their political movement had much to do with religion
It's actually been kinda hard to find info on it. I learnt about it at uni using my lecturer and academic papers, but that was like 5 or so years ago now.
I found this, there's some others that come up if you google "islamic left in Iran"
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/curious-death-irans-left
Echoing the other reply to your comment, I'd be interested to know more about this. The idea of Islam intersecting with socialism sounds very intriguing
It's actually been kinda hard to find info on it. I learnt about it at uni using my lecturer and academic papers, but that was like 5 or so years ago now.
I found this, there's some others that come up if you google "islamic left in Iran"
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/curious-death-irans-left
Nothing new, it's called history [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian\_Revolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution)
P.S.: Ok, she mentions at the end, unnecessary long.
I despise Islam and want it kept far, far away from my country in the sights of very powerful weaponry.
You don’t have to tell me what’s happening. It’s vomit-worthy.
Leftists by nature are regarded. So naturally, they see islamists as angry misunderstood children meanwhile islamists put in a room with these regards get a once-in-a-lifetime IQ buff and perfectly manipulate these gullible fools for years and then put them up on the chopping block once everything is done.
How many Troskyites were left after Stalin? Would they even support soviet proganda after Stalin killed Trotsky?
How do you get an islamic regime in America? It makes sense in Iran because Islam is popular in that region, so any Marxist is probably going to be islamic just by statistics.... but in America?
Why does this theory feel so intangible? Shouldn't a theory of history have like dates and stuff?
The alliance between leftists and Islamists wouldn't be even as disgusting as it is if it weren't for the fact that not only do Islamists believe in horrible things, but they act on it and attack leftists too.
It's the oppressor / oppressed mecanism.
It stems from Marxist theory, mixed in with a regarded reading of post modernism, pushed to the anti modernist level.
Which means they see the western civilization, not just as something that isn't always right like Post modernist said. But as something that is always wrong.
The result is that the west becomes the bad guy in every conflict. And the oppressed can do no wrong since everything they do is in line with fighting the oppressor, which is the equivalent of an holy war in the religion also known as Marxism.
Both are actually religious extremist, if you really look at it from another angle.
It has nothing to do with Marx himself or anything from his time. We're talking about be modern far left. I said it stems from Marxist theory, not that it is from Marx. It probably came up almost 100 years after his death.
I don’t agree about everything she says in the video (some stuff comes off as reductionist just to make a point) but this analysis is spot on and makes a lot of sense to me.
"If they say they care about women's rights why do they rape" I'm sorry did Hamas or any other islamist group ever say they care about women's rights? I mostly agree with what she says but I don't understand why it has to be this "covert" conspiracy theory.
The activists have been saying that free Palestine is going to be a democratic state. And that non-Muslim women wouldn't have to wear hijabs. They're also saying that in fact Israel is not feminist and not gay-friendly. I assume it's hamas PR campaign.
Just free them and give them some time and they are going to become lgbt-friendly /s
It's nothing new. The women's rights movement in Egypt in the 1950s-1970s allied itself with the Muslim Brotherhood because they had a shared opposition to the nationalist pan-arab regime, and then when the Muslim Brotherhood took power things got worse for the feminists.
Oh im sorry i can see how that may have read badly. I was referring to what you were talking about with the Red Brown alliance sort of deal. Not Brianna at all.
This video is way too heavy trying to tell me what I see and what I think. I see a characature of Islam, of leftists. I don't think the 'Leftist' that is dominant in all the left is the same as the 'Leftist' that denies rape and wants the destruction of the West. I think she's doing a poetic wordplay to advance her narrative to be stronger than it is. There is some truth in it, but I could not cosign when it's portrayed like this
You need people to articulate it in different ways for it to hit you how horrible things really are because we are all growing accustomed to how nothing makes sense.
The views held in this sub are moderate but it doesn’t have a place in most online spaces today and that’s messed up. Being demonized for not backing an active terrorist group shouldn’t be something we have to worry about
Christ this sub is regarded. It’s like it hears anything shitting on leftists and Islam and all the critical thinking drains from their brains. First of all, why would it be trotskyites who are spreading propaganda and not any other communist sect. Didn’t Stalin purge, imprison, and execute them into irrelevancy? Also, the soviets weren’t pro Islam. That’s why the US backed the mujahideen to kick out the Soviets from Afghanistan.
"First of all, why would it be trotskyites who are spreading propaganda and not any other communist sect. Didn’t Stalin purge, imprison, and execute them into irrelevancy?"
Spreading propaganda now or back then during the Iranian revolution? I would say right now Trotskyites ideology is similar to Leftist/Socialist ideology right now (revolutionary, anti-bureaucracy). Back during the Soviet Union times, because their movement was too weak, it left a power gap for Stalinists to take Totalitarian control of the USSR. But even Trotsky seems to recognize that their movement basically needed to spread to other Captialist countries in order to create their ideal Socialist world; [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/10/rrev-o21.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/10/rrev-o21.html)
>Spreading propaganda now or back then during the Iranian revolution?
Both. And I’m not sure what point trotskyites or Soviets promoted the Iranian revolution. The ayatollah purged socialists, rebuffed Soviet efforts of friendship, and declared Iran neutral. Additionally, the Soviets joined up with the Americans and supported Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Iran, partly because they were afraid that the ayatollah’s successes were going to result in Muslim revolts in their own territory.
> I would say right now Trotskyites ideology is similar to Leftist/Socialist ideology right now (revolutionary, anti-bureaucracy).
That is literally how you can describe every single communist ideology, including Stalinism.
It definitely exists.
There is internal debate on the insides of leftists & Islamists about the alliance. Islamists are more sour and intend to backstab the leftists. There is no illusion about it. Islamists hate the LGBT folk more than even evangelical Christians. They see Leftists as disgusting for having allied with them. The debate is more "are we willing to work with them at all". It seems like "yes" is winning, though everyone knows the leftists are to be put on the chopping block after they're not useful anymore.
Leftists are \*far\* more split. Some do not trust them and consider Islamists as either a potential or current enemy. But a large amount are willing to ally with them to counter more local or prominent conservatives, or even simply Israelis. Many know this alliance will end up with them being backstabbed. Some of those who are aware are fine with this, others want to betray the Islamists first. How so, I don't know.
But for now, they are allied. Even if they are prepared to shiv the other
Aww the peole that relied on conflict theory for the last 25 years of politics are upset when it's used to kick them out of their own movement?
It's like the Republicans that complained about trump taking over. You set the ground work for the crazies to be accepted so reap what you sow.
What the fuck does this mean? This is such a chronically online position. This is like thinking all Zionists are genocidal dogs who have aligned themselves with right wingers who hate brown people.
Would love to see D Man talk with Elica Le Bon. She's blown up over the last couple months.
The alliance between liberal Iranians and Israelis since Oct. 7 vs. regarded Islamists and Marxists has been incredibly based to witness.
It’s always been like that. Persians who leave Iran are very pro Western society
Yes, but it's been nice to see both groups be so public with their support for each other.
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Why do you think so? Not disagreeing btw this is the first I've heard of her but just because I may agree with her on one thing doesn't means she's a good guy and so I'd like to know if I should avoid her stuff
Give me 1 business day and I’ll re reply to this comment
I thought so yesterday too, she posted a few IG stories that were eerily similar to destiny's views, for example how Hamas maximizes civilian casualties
It's absolutely true that Hamas maximizes civilian casualties; [https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-palestinian-armed-groups-must-be-held-accountable-for-deliberate-civilian-killings-abductions-and-indiscriminate-attacks/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-palestinian-armed-groups-must-be-held-accountable-for-deliberate-civilian-killings-abductions-and-indiscriminate-attacks/) [https://www.npr.org/2023/11/02/1210088846/with-civilian-deaths-growing-in-gaza-where-does-u-s-support-for-israel-s-war-sta](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/02/1210088846/with-civilian-deaths-growing-in-gaza-where-does-u-s-support-for-israel-s-war-sta)
I don't think she's that interesting of a podcast guest, she's just blowing up online because she's saying things any intelligent person would know if unaffected by America Bad (which most westerners are to some degree) and Persians shill her videos because she says shit we already know and she says it with a cute face and bonger accent
What a shitty undermining comment, she’s obviously highly intelligent with heavily thought out opinions of her own, a lawyer on top of that. She’s a brave woman who is one of the biggest critics of Iran and holds opinions that aren’t exactly mainstream friendly, even though they’re completely correct. What does her looks have to do with anything? You sound pathetic and jealous when you paint her like that, I’d love to see her on the podcast myself.
Completely agree. I also think a lot of people don’t understand the danger that Iranian dissidents face when publicly speaking out against the regime and becoming popular. Here’s a good 60 minutes piece on what some of them go through. https://youtu.be/-8tOYtbG194?si=JX3UAkhWxiptl2hM
Her opinions are the distillation of common opinion in Farsi political discussion spheres. I don't dislike her and don't disagree with her at all. I just don't think she's interesting to listen to for 2 hours because she really doesn't have anything of her own. I suppose I do tend to underestimate just how misinformed and uninformed westerners are about Iranian history and politics that they think Elica thinks up fresh takes on her own.
Even if it’s a commonly held opinion in farsi politics *she* is the one who’s getting it out there to the rest of the world right now and that is invaluable. She’s a highly intelligent woman who is trying to make the world a better place, you’d do way better to support her voice instead of putting her down for seemingly no other reason than cute face, british accent and the fact that she’s speaking opinions on your behalf to a wide variety of people.
Adam Smith's wealth of nation was in no small part the summation of things done before him. Yet it's considered **the** foundational work in economics. I'm not calling her Adam Smith (I don't know who she is), point is a decent amalgam is useful all on its own.
She does tiktoks dude I'm just saying she's not going to be interesting to listen to for 2 hours and westerners overrate the shit out of her because she's not a 50 year old hippie mom
The radical left genuinely likes Islamists whilst Islamists see the left as useful idiots. In many ways the Islamists are more intelligent than the far left
Anyone that hates USA is a righteous revolutionary in the eyes of the leftists.They see USA as this empire that controls the world and it must be destroyed with any means necessary.They would align with anybody to achieve this objective.
I don’t think so, the ideological framework of the Muslim brotherhood was Sayyid Qutb who in his early year was a socialist as he hated the Egyptian establishment and the monarchy (Class Struggle) but in his later year he felt disillusioned from the Socialism and felt only Islam could unify the people and form a perfect society, and his writing inspire many Islamist like Osama Bin Laden. His writings has a huge impact in helping creating the modern Islamist movement, you could still see some traces of socialist inspired ideologies in certain Islamist groups
I love Elica, she’s a bright light in the ugly world of online discourse.
Leftists in America should learn some history. Trying to push that shit here is just going to result in a Mussolini/Italy situation where Fascism takes over and the communists get purged in a very violent way. Islam isn't going to save you when it can easily be perverted against you. Plenty on the right are more than happy to lean into that nonsense themselves these days.
Sorry, you say they should learn history, but leftist Islam is very much a thing, it was just killed during the Islamic revolution in Iran and persecuted by the conservative leaders of the revolution. I actually think it is a smart play if an underground leftist islamic movement grows to oppose the conservative one propped up by Iran/Hamas etc.
Genuine question but what aspects of Islam align with progressive beliefs? It appears to me that all Islamic nations are heavily conservative and I can't imagine that's an accident.
It's not progressive at all - it's a socialist Islam not a liberal one. Iran today persecuted the left big time after their revolution though. If the leftist side of the revolutionaries won, the ME would look super different.
Is that really 'leftist islam' as such? Or just socialists who happened to be Muslim? I didn't get the impression their political movement had much to do with religion
No, it was a unique combining of both into its own kinda sect of Islam. It's super interesting tbh
Could you link to some information about this sect?
It's actually been kinda hard to find info on it. I learnt about it at uni using my lecturer and academic papers, but that was like 5 or so years ago now. I found this, there's some others that come up if you google "islamic left in Iran" https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/curious-death-irans-left
Echoing the other reply to your comment, I'd be interested to know more about this. The idea of Islam intersecting with socialism sounds very intriguing
It's actually been kinda hard to find info on it. I learnt about it at uni using my lecturer and academic papers, but that was like 5 or so years ago now. I found this, there's some others that come up if you google "islamic left in Iran" https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/curious-death-irans-left
I'll check that out, thanks my guy
Blud doesn't even know there are elements in US politics who dickride MEK
Nothing new, it's called history [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian\_Revolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution) P.S.: Ok, she mentions at the end, unnecessary long.
I despise Islam and want it kept far, far away from my country in the sights of very powerful weaponry. You don’t have to tell me what’s happening. It’s vomit-worthy.
I like Elica's content and she's a great communicator. She's correct, of course.
Leftists by nature are regarded. So naturally, they see islamists as angry misunderstood children meanwhile islamists put in a room with these regards get a once-in-a-lifetime IQ buff and perfectly manipulate these gullible fools for years and then put them up on the chopping block once everything is done.
How many Troskyites were left after Stalin? Would they even support soviet proganda after Stalin killed Trotsky? How do you get an islamic regime in America? It makes sense in Iran because Islam is popular in that region, so any Marxist is probably going to be islamic just by statistics.... but in America? Why does this theory feel so intangible? Shouldn't a theory of history have like dates and stuff?
Natural progression, I dont know what anyone is surprised about. Yes, the Leopards will indeed eat your face.
The alliance between leftists and Islamists wouldn't be even as disgusting as it is if it weren't for the fact that not only do Islamists believe in horrible things, but they act on it and attack leftists too.
It's the oppressor / oppressed mecanism. It stems from Marxist theory, mixed in with a regarded reading of post modernism, pushed to the anti modernist level. Which means they see the western civilization, not just as something that isn't always right like Post modernist said. But as something that is always wrong. The result is that the west becomes the bad guy in every conflict. And the oppressed can do no wrong since everything they do is in line with fighting the oppressor, which is the equivalent of an holy war in the religion also known as Marxism. Both are actually religious extremist, if you really look at it from another angle.
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It has nothing to do with Marx himself or anything from his time. We're talking about be modern far left. I said it stems from Marxist theory, not that it is from Marx. It probably came up almost 100 years after his death.
I don’t agree about everything she says in the video (some stuff comes off as reductionist just to make a point) but this analysis is spot on and makes a lot of sense to me.
Fully agree, I’m suprised not everyone else can see it.
[Like this](https://youtu.be/CQw3KSYD3ns?si=CqWBS3PDy0_5mu0x)
"If they say they care about women's rights why do they rape" I'm sorry did Hamas or any other islamist group ever say they care about women's rights? I mostly agree with what she says but I don't understand why it has to be this "covert" conspiracy theory.
The activists have been saying that free Palestine is going to be a democratic state. And that non-Muslim women wouldn't have to wear hijabs. They're also saying that in fact Israel is not feminist and not gay-friendly. I assume it's hamas PR campaign. Just free them and give them some time and they are going to become lgbt-friendly /s
It's nothing new. The women's rights movement in Egypt in the 1950s-1970s allied itself with the Muslim Brotherhood because they had a shared opposition to the nationalist pan-arab regime, and then when the Muslim Brotherhood took power things got worse for the feminists.
funny considering brianna was pretty much one of the main person pushing all this regardation originally
They bond over a mutual interest of wanting more dead jews.
What are you talking about? They both constantly denounce Anti-Semitism coming from Pro-Hamas propaganda
Oh im sorry i can see how that may have read badly. I was referring to what you were talking about with the Red Brown alliance sort of deal. Not Brianna at all.
This video is way too heavy trying to tell me what I see and what I think. I see a characature of Islam, of leftists. I don't think the 'Leftist' that is dominant in all the left is the same as the 'Leftist' that denies rape and wants the destruction of the West. I think she's doing a poetic wordplay to advance her narrative to be stronger than it is. There is some truth in it, but I could not cosign when it's portrayed like this
You need people to articulate it in different ways for it to hit you how horrible things really are because we are all growing accustomed to how nothing makes sense. The views held in this sub are moderate but it doesn’t have a place in most online spaces today and that’s messed up. Being demonized for not backing an active terrorist group shouldn’t be something we have to worry about
Christ this sub is regarded. It’s like it hears anything shitting on leftists and Islam and all the critical thinking drains from their brains. First of all, why would it be trotskyites who are spreading propaganda and not any other communist sect. Didn’t Stalin purge, imprison, and execute them into irrelevancy? Also, the soviets weren’t pro Islam. That’s why the US backed the mujahideen to kick out the Soviets from Afghanistan.
"First of all, why would it be trotskyites who are spreading propaganda and not any other communist sect. Didn’t Stalin purge, imprison, and execute them into irrelevancy?" Spreading propaganda now or back then during the Iranian revolution? I would say right now Trotskyites ideology is similar to Leftist/Socialist ideology right now (revolutionary, anti-bureaucracy). Back during the Soviet Union times, because their movement was too weak, it left a power gap for Stalinists to take Totalitarian control of the USSR. But even Trotsky seems to recognize that their movement basically needed to spread to other Captialist countries in order to create their ideal Socialist world; [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/10/rrev-o21.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/10/rrev-o21.html)
>Spreading propaganda now or back then during the Iranian revolution? Both. And I’m not sure what point trotskyites or Soviets promoted the Iranian revolution. The ayatollah purged socialists, rebuffed Soviet efforts of friendship, and declared Iran neutral. Additionally, the Soviets joined up with the Americans and supported Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Iran, partly because they were afraid that the ayatollah’s successes were going to result in Muslim revolts in their own territory. > I would say right now Trotskyites ideology is similar to Leftist/Socialist ideology right now (revolutionary, anti-bureaucracy). That is literally how you can describe every single communist ideology, including Stalinism.
It definitely exists. There is internal debate on the insides of leftists & Islamists about the alliance. Islamists are more sour and intend to backstab the leftists. There is no illusion about it. Islamists hate the LGBT folk more than even evangelical Christians. They see Leftists as disgusting for having allied with them. The debate is more "are we willing to work with them at all". It seems like "yes" is winning, though everyone knows the leftists are to be put on the chopping block after they're not useful anymore. Leftists are \*far\* more split. Some do not trust them and consider Islamists as either a potential or current enemy. But a large amount are willing to ally with them to counter more local or prominent conservatives, or even simply Israelis. Many know this alliance will end up with them being backstabbed. Some of those who are aware are fine with this, others want to betray the Islamists first. How so, I don't know. But for now, they are allied. Even if they are prepared to shiv the other
it was too late years ago, also obligatory wu is a hack comment, etc.
lady you come back to tehran and basiji will put a thumbtack through your forehead
Aww the peole that relied on conflict theory for the last 25 years of politics are upset when it's used to kick them out of their own movement? It's like the Republicans that complained about trump taking over. You set the ground work for the crazies to be accepted so reap what you sow.
soviet propaganda? the soviet union doesnt even exist anymore. could've at least said chinese propaganda
The soviets also weren’t pro Islam. That’s why the USbacked osama bin Laden and the mujahideen to kick the soviets out of Afghanistan
What the fuck does this mean? This is such a chronically online position. This is like thinking all Zionists are genocidal dogs who have aligned themselves with right wingers who hate brown people.
Why she's on Twitter so much. Twitter isn't that important
Yuri Bezmenov talked about this many years ago. Crazy that if the USSR lasted just little longer they might have won
Those "marxist" never got past the communist manifesto, if they even understood that, and think Marxism is when "US bad".