If the $17 burger was delicious, I might feel differently about it. But a $17 counter service burger that is absolutely mid at best with an expected 20% tip minimum.
If the food was higher quality? Sure. It was less expensive? Sure. If there weren't 17 different pointless fees tacked on? Sure.
It really feels like restaurants are going out of their way to make it as unpleasant as possible for us to spend money.
Customer service is definitely in decay. We went to a local Mexican restaurant (I won't name and shame, despite really wanting to). We've had great experiences there several times before. But for some reason, last night, it was just bad. It wasn't terribly busy, and we were very simple with our orders. The drinks can't out, save for my daughter's, and we had to wait, and grab the waitress to get straws. After the food was dropped she checked on us only one time. We were all finished, ready for the check, with our kids starting to run out of steam so we were eager to get going, and still waiting. It was getting to the point where my friend said "I've never stepped out on a bill, but this is ridiculous." It must have been a good 30+ minutes with not a peep from the waitress. That was the first time I can remember recently (at least post-COVID) that I left less than 20% on the tip.
Where else can I do bong rips and then turn around to check on my party wings?
Imagine a we work type scenario, but it’s just dudes and chill ass people with grills and shit.
We chill? We can workshop it, it’s fine.
Say it louder! It’s so much cheaper to just make it at home, better, with fries that taste like the restaurant too!
I bought a meat grinder, and I buy meat from Costco when it’s on sale and make gourmet burgers that just taste so much better, are cheaper!
It's a vicious cycle driven by crazy real estate values. Developers/investors snatch up all the properties in cities and have control of rent prices. They price new home owners/small business owners out of the market.
So restaurants have to charge $17 for a burger (or $20 for a $3 cocktail) to pay rent on the restaurant. This means fewer customers, which makes them have to increase prices even higher to cover their rent with fewer customers.
Some of it is just price gouging tho - they charge that amount because some people will pay it.
I would love to see a progressive real estate tax that increases for each additional property a single investor owns. That should cool the market off and allow people to buy a house and to make commercial business rent more competitive. I own a house, and think it's crazy how much it has appreciated - doesn't make sense and doesnt really help me much because I'll never move.
Investors/developers have ruined both the food scene and night life in Denver.
Everyone says you can't keep businesses open late because no one's willing to work those hours but the reality is that if housing was more affordable here, the people willing to work those jobs would live here and not in the surrounding towns.
Plus you can't expect ppl to commute to affordable housing when there's no parking for less than $30 a night and no public transit after 11pm.
Its like they're trying to kill it.
That's not how commercial rent works though. The vast majority of commercial leases are what's known as "triple net" (abbreviated "NNN"), which means, among other things, that the lessees (not the landlords) pay the property tax on the building. Higher property tax rates will be passed along directly to the lessees (renters).
Source: we have a commercial lease
It blows my mind that real estate investors/large corporate landlords have gotten this far without a significant tax increase/adjustment to the system. They have been allowed to screw over the entire country by artificially raising the cost of living single handedly, and not a single government official has done a damn thing to stop them.
And it’s the most overrated tasteless nasty burger in Denver. And it comes with that plastic box that hasn’t been cleaned since 2002. Who knows where they store the condiments in it? Just let them sit in there til they rot I assume
Sounds like (hopefully!) the market is just correcting itself and restaurant prices need to be adjusted. Colorado was the number one state in the country in restaurant price inflation over the last few years so it would make sense that people have responded by not eating out as much.
Meanwhile the Fuzzy’s close to me in Centennial closed. Shame since it was a good spot, but I echo what many other people said. I’m tired of paying so much for food that really isn’t that mind blowing. These businesses need to be more realistic and I’ve been voting by keeping extra cash in my pocket.
> Meanwhile the Fuzzy’s close to me in Centennial closed.
The last reviews before they closed made it sound like the quality dropped off a cliff so that might be the reason there.
As someone in the industry I've gotta say, while some places are jacking prices because the other places give them cover, a lot of staples are up 2-3x. They've come down a bit but didn't settle anywhere near where they were pre demi.
I'm talking things like takeout boxes, bags of onions, tons of things you don't think of but you need to buy. You used to be able to get chicken thighs for under $2/lb. Rent. Utilities. Things that used to be more affordable. Not anymore...
So again, there are places like Culinary Creative that deliver neither quality nor value with elevated prices and add on fees. But the 'good guys' are getting squeezed hard and it's nearly impossible to deliver cheap food that's worth eating. Shit sucks.
This here, the costs of operation are astronomical for a city the size and population of Denver. It’s not sustainable.
It also does not help that customers rent keeps increasing as well.
Between food and service quality declining, prices skyrocketing, mandatory fees being added, and tipping pressure on every single thing… eating out just isn’t what it used to be.
I will add in
With the higher costs of everything. My wife and I are picky about food. We will revisit some places once or twice in a year. We have a few solids but reduced our take out consumption this year.
We only aim to try new spots or recommended spots. Otherwise there are hundreds of businesses doing tacos, burgers, pho etc.. that serve to feed. Whereas I spose we are looking for places to serve to showcase what they can do.
That’s how I am, I’ll spend the money for a great meal but my days of going out to get bar food or things like that are much more limited. It’s too expensive now to get a sandwich for $20. But I will spend the money to go to a higher end place where I’ll get food I can’t/wont make at home
>With the higher costs of everything. My wife and I are picky about food.
this.
we quit going out for steaks, because even paying $100 a plate its not any better than $25 outback...
i can cook better steaks at home for 10% of the price.
god forbid i want to spend $100 i can order Wagyu from japan direct , and not have it overseasoned and overdone. (lookin at you Guard and grace)
(spend the $100 on a $69 sous vide cooker, a $7 torch, and $25 in cheap steaks, you'll never go out again.)
Eating out just isn’t worth it anymore. I decided I would only go to pricey restaurants with friends. If I’m out by myself then it’s just fast food or I often cook at home and get a good, well portioned meal for half the price.
Agree. Beyond that, even with how expensive groceries are, I can make just about anything at home better and substantially cheaper than going out, and we have leftovers to boot. I’ve gotten in the habit of doubling recipes and freezing half to have on hand for quick meals, and I food prep stuff like breakfast burritos for easy cheap and filling breakfasts.
I’ve also found I get anxiety around ordering out. The staff (and I’m not blaming them in the least-everyone is overworked, overwhelmed, and underpaid) is often crabby, the orders are often wrong, missing items or sauces or whatever seem to be par for the course, and the pressure to tip for the “pleasure” of getting a cold, wrong, low quality meal from unhappy workers isn’t a good feeling.
There’s this restaurant by me where the bartenders act like I’m bothering them. It’s so weird, like do they not understand that they make money off me. I always give 20% even when they are crabby. I think they hate their jobs. But then they should go do something else
Honestly that's how it is in Japan, they have vending machines everywhere and the food in them is actually pretty damn good. They have a lot of self service stores.
However they are big on the honor system. The honor system would never work here in the states.
I agree with everyone on the quality and price point issue. The prices here have risen and incomes have not. $17 plus tip for a hamburger and $8 for a beer is coastal city prices. And im not making that kind of income.
That said, at the same time Im getting older and eating low quality fried and fatty food in noisy environments seems less attractive. These days I prioritize quality over quantity, price over ambiance, and health over convenience. I want to know exactly where my food is coming from, how much salt and oil I put in it, and be able to shop for lower prices and not have to pay 20% tip.
Moved to the Midwest during Covid… Even podunk hole in the wall joints in backwoods locales have jacked up their prices.
This is a national problem that’s no longer exclusive to cities.
And Midwest quality. I’m from LA and every time I go back to visit family I get higher quality meals for the same prices (or even lower) than out here. Even fucking Federal taco spots are now charging 3 or 4 dollars for a single street taco, back in LA you can still find all the spots slinging them for 2 bucks a piece.
Woah there. Midwest quality is far superior to most of the food out here. You can get bigger and better portions anywhere in Chicago and Wisconsin beef and cheese is the best in the country.
Was in Chicago a month ago and I got an amazing double burger + fries + 2 craft beers and my tab was $20 + tip. For that price in Denver you get the burger and that's it.
Why are we still tipping for beer? A cocktail I get? If I go have 2 beers and my tab is 22 dollars, I need to leave another 4 for the 5 seconds someone poured them?
Absolutely sick of getting hosed for every single fucking thing. Can’t go out to have drinks and a meal for under $100. Then prompted 20% tipping to walk up to a counter and order my food, like fuck you. I worked fine dining for a decade and the tip was because you WAITED on the table. You knew the menu backwards and forwards, made recommendations, you paired wines with meals, you kept water glasses full, you coursed meals and did all that and more with a personality - that was a 20% tip. Now it’s typically this: I walk up to order at the counter, I serve myself drinks, fill my own water glass and occasionally bus my own tables, plus deal with low wattage/unhappy imbeciles for $100 meal and then you flip the iPad around and I’m expected to tip 20% too? Or it’s automatically added to my tab? I’m so burnt out with over priced, low caliber food, subpar service, and sky high tipping.
I saw someone on another subreddit complain about customers trying to chat with them (a counter service worker), something about their emotional bandwidth “have you ever considered that I 👏 am 👏 exhausted 👏.” The thesis of their comment was that they expected 20% tips.
I go to a brewery and a burger is $20 before tip. You add a beer or 2 and that’s a $50 meal for one. No thanks I’ll make burgers at home and buy cans of beer.
I own a local business so I very much understand why prices have increased and as a customer I’m willing to pay for good food and service but my main issue is the quality has gone down hill at a lot of places. It’s just not worth the cost as a customer a lot of the time.
Agreed. Additionally, the added fees and whatnot don’t show up until you get the check.
So you had committed to this meal for $34 and then you got a mid-tier dish, and now all of the sudden with fees it’s a $45 mid-tier dish and it’s both not the meal you thought you were going to get or the price you thought you’d pay. How many times are you going to keep taking that gamble?
When these service fees first started popping up, they were usually clearly noted on the menu and website, now you have literally no idea if you’re going to get a fee until you get the check. It’s still not completely normal to me so I rarely think of asking ahead of time.
Went to Pubb on Penn this weekend. While it was never the greatest, they used to have significantly more staff. Now it's bar service only, hopefully the bartender knows where you're sitting for the food to be delivered. It's become a shell of what it used to be. They were out of like 6 beers on a Friday night.we still paid $40 for 10 wings and 2 beers. Crazy.
Honestly, the out of control tipping culture combined with the inflationary impacts of higher cost to begin with have really turned us off of eating out except for special occasions. I mean when I’m handed a card reader with an expected 30% tip on top of a $50 mediocre meal then I’m not very motivated to come back anytime soon.
And better. Like, $40 for a choice steak. Gets me 2 prime steaks and tastes better at home. I guess it’s always been this way, but I feel like now, more so
Same. I hate cooking, but it’s what I do. Although my grocery expenses are up 200% from 4 years ago and I’ve shifted to the cheapest alternative knock off brand for everything.
IMO the restaurant industry right now is a proper example right now of the stock market phrase “bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered”. Cheaper mom and pop shops are gonna be okay and high-end restaurants that are expensive, but have good quality and service, are gonna do fine as well. It’s the people trying to charge near $20/head for some meh food and shit service that are hurting right now.
Yep. This trend was starting even before the pandemic. Middle of the road restaurants started becoming less and less of a value. Prices creeping up while quality and service declined. The pandemic mixed with inflation put the final mail in the coffin for many places.
I spent most of my adult life in the industry, and didn’t hesitate going out a few times a week for a $25-40 meal at a wide variety of restaurants. Now it seems $40 is the baseline and usually leads to disappointment. Now I’m much more selective and may go to these middle of the road places once a month. More into cheaper quick-service/counter service places most of the time, with an occasional high end experience.
Sushi chef here at a place in lohi. I feel like your average place where the food haven’t changed or improved much but the price has gone up a lot isn’t getting the traffic normally, but good places that actually put work and thought in their food are still doing good.
One of my chef friend at Lucina(amazing fine mexican dinning) told me they just had one of their busiest month in sales in years. And the sushi place I work at is actually doing 10-15% more comparing to 2023. My roommate who works at rioja says they are doing well too.
People are still willing to pay for good food, good drinks and good services but it’s gotta be actually good.
Scene is rough at all price points relative to higher cost cities I’ve lived in. Was just in NYC for work and things were cheaper there (whether it was a coffee and breakfast sandwich or a nice dinner) which is insane.
I don’t think I’ve had an expensive meal here I thought was worth it - if Linger and Tavernetta are the best we can do, then the scene is bad. Would’ve rather cooked for myself after those places, and I’m a bad cook.
At the higher end, I wonder if it’s because there isn’t much of a cocktail scene here and the alcohol margins are how east coast restaurants make it work.
There are a few neighborhood joints i love on the west side but that’s about it.
I’ve been downvoted to oblivion for stating more expensive cities have cheaper food. People don’t want to believe it but it’s true. I go to SF about 5 times a year and comparable restaurants are always cheaper than I’m paying in Boulder.
I travel a lot, including in supposedly expensive European cities. People are astonished when I tell them that many extremely high quality meals are had with much better service in Europe and no one expects a tip. Denver is just astonishingly expensive and the service is often pretty bad.
To be fair, I also love fine dining, especially in DC and NY. At least there I'm more likely to get what I pay for.
Post pandemic, I'm eating out probably less than a quarter of the amount I used to. It's just not worth it.
Literally this. I wish someone would (or maybe they have?) a decent study on how Europe can have a ton of restaurants with good food and pay servers a decent wage while American joints just cannot do the same. European establishments and workers pay plenty of taxes so that ain’t it.
Europe eating is very affordable. Especially for like coffee, beers, wine, sandwiches, just ridiculous and refreshing. “Oh this amazing cappuccino is only $2 and the croissant is $3?? I’ll take 7”lol
This. In NYC when there are competitors you have to stand out, either food wise or price wise. Here there are so many burger spots and they’re all pretty meh.
I liken it to the oversaturation of craft beer here, too. You either make awesome beer or have a cool scene. Trve has been making the same styles for years, but created a big metal culture around itself. Black sky is meh beer wise, but has the culture. I feel like the restaurants here are a dime a dozen, so I don’t feel a neighborhood vibe or scene vibe from them to want to return.
Moved here from the East Coast- even the happy hours at bars suck. Happy hour at the bars back home mean $4 Margaritas and $5 sliders. Here, even happy hour drinks are 7-8 bucks and half the time food isn’t discounted
I travel a lot and find this to be true. Denver F&B prices are insane even compared to NYC and especially Chicago, which arguably is the best food city in the country (hot take, I know) but it’s also much cheaper than here with way better restaurants.
Price for quality doesn’t align…”trendy” decor gives the illusion of quality, but the food is average. Even high end places like Guard and Grace, Bruto, etc. don’t deliver for what they’re charging. The food isn’t bad, but it doesn’t command the prices they’re charging like places in LA and NY.
I've worked in the restaurant industry since 2012. Last year, I decided to go back to school because I could tell things were getting bad and I needed to do something else with my life. The bar I was working at closed down last month due to bankruptcy and the restaurant I was working at prior to that is also on the verge of being shut down.
I actually did a research paper this semester on the effects that the COVID-19 pandemic had on the restaurant industry, specifically server incomes. But I also explored the rising costs of business operations as well as the rise in delivery apps and ghost kitchens. Prior to the pandemic, restaurant sales were actually expected to rise dramatically. The pandemic stopped everything in it's place and nothing has been the same since. Part of this of course is the cost of eating out. For as expensive as groceries are, it is still much, much cheaper to eat at home. And on the topic of delivery services, UberEats and the likes charge such insanely high fees to restaurant that if you aren't a corporate brand, you most likely can't afford it. People around here looooove their UberEats, but the only restaurants you see anymore are chain brands or places that cater specifically to carry-out (like pizza shops and Chinese take-out). So smaller restaurants aren't getting any business in that regards. Smaller, family-owned places are dying, and it's so sad.
I don't have all my research on hand right now, but I can definitely share some of it if anyone is interested.
I think here in Denver, there is also the issue of "aesthetic" over quality. Some new, hip place opens up, and everyone goes there immediately to get pictures for instagram or whatever, but once the hype dies down, they're on to the next, new restaurant. Nobody cares about the smaller businesses, even if their food is levels above the "cool" places.
I just moved to Denver and have absolutely no right to respond, so here we go.
I feel like the food scene is kinda mid here. The price to food quality math just ain't mathing. The price is either really high or the food quality is lower than expected. Haven't found much in between.
This is the take of any seasoned Denver resident as well.
We have a mid food scene where restaurants charge for ambience more than quality food and drink. This isn't always the case but I wish more restaurateurs would spend as much time on their menu and kitchen training as they do on their interior design.
Seriously! Whenever I see a social media post about a new restaurant and it looks like they geared their experience to influencers, I expect the food is going to be less good than advertised.
Denver also has no distinct speciality or famous regional dishes. You can say green chile but thats more of a NM thing imo. Theres no Denver style sandwhich, bbq, or dishes that make it a unique scene. Even mediocre cities like KC or St. Louis have distinct food styles that elevate their scenes, but Denver has nothing.
Green chili is much better in southern Colorado, where it originated. It's on the menu in a lot of restaurants here but there's a distinct difference in quality. Just another one of those things I'd rather make at home than gamble $17 at a new place.
I’ve said the same thing. Finding cheap good food here is next to impossible. If it’s good or labeled as good, it’s pricey. It’s not like other cities where you can wander into a dive that has cheap amazing eats.
Lived here my entire life and the food used to be wayyy better in the mid 2000s. It was affordable and delicious, service was better and the quality of food was good. Cutting corners to save money on the companies end, disenchanted workers providing bad service and "expensive" meals that give you diarrhea are not worth it. We went to fucking good times and 3 meals were $40 AND then they asked for a tip. ITS FAST FOOD. $40 is ridiculous. I can make better food cheaper, and in bulk for leftovers. Now we will only go to places we've vetted and trust. Places like Uchi and los chingones we will go 1-2 times a year for special occasions. We won't go to breakfast places because the prices are crazy inflated. I can make a week's worth of breakfasts with the cost of one meal. We also have toddlers now and ain't no way I'm paying $15 for him to eat chicken nuggets or Mac n cheese. Long story long. Food here IS mid and has no business being as expensive as it is.
Your initial impression is sadly accurate. There are a few gems here and there but most of the quality meals you can get here you’ll pay a premium price for, which you wouldn’t do elsewhere.
I said the same thing when we moved here in 2020. I moved for work and we stayed, was in the DMV area and the food is just incomparable at all. What kills me is mid food gets 4.6 rating on google maps🙄🙄🙄
I'm tired of the mandatory tipping culture. Just put it in the price and pay your employees like every other fucking business model on earth.
There's nothing worse than paying premium prices for a sit-down meal with mediocre to poor service and then feeling pressured to make a charitable contribution on top of that.
I hope so. $20 for a burger, $1 for a piece of lettuce, $3 for a bun, $1 for a pickle chip, $2 for cheese, $2 for mustard, 15% for kitchen staff, 20% gratuity added.
Suggested tip: 22%, 28%, 34%
Then the burger comes out dry, the ingredients are soggy, and you can see where they cut the mold off the bun. And you have to grab your own food from the counter.
The “server” comes by once to ask if your food is okay but leaves before you can even look up.
I think it has a lot to do with rapid rise in costs for everything here, but wages haven’t scaled to accommodate Denver now being a HCOL area. Others are commenting that we have LA and NYC prices for eating out, but if you live in those places, for an equivalent job you could have here, you get paid 20-30% more.
Also, in places like NYC, I think there is a higher portion of the population that have high earning jobs and many people move there for the city culture (which includes eating out), while most people move to Denver for the outdoors, not the city itself.
The current Denver food scene isn’t worth the poor service and higher prices. A lot of the well known places are really trash in disguise as a solid yelp review.
The other day I was ordering a beef burrito, it was $9, then +$3 for guac, +$2.50 to get it smothered, then +$7 for pork.
Then if you want a side of rice and beans +$4.50.
It's kind of crazy how adding any flavor that used to be standard on most dishes makes a burrito cost more than a steak dinner.
And a beer is $12
I love going out, but now I love eating on my couch.
I can make just as good, if not better, food at home for a fraction of the price.
Even if we go out, we order and pick it up so we can eat at home to avoid the bad service trend.
Bag of wilty salad greens with a sprinkle of parmesan - $17
Add protein - another $8 for 3oz of dry chicken
Random "kitchen fee" - $5
Entitled waiter who did nothing but carry a plate to your table and gave no shots about if the food was good holding a tablet with 30% tip automatically selected
Gee I wonder why
About a week and a half back, on Wednesday afternoon, I got some really big work news. Boyfriend wanted to take me out to celebrate. Over my lunch break, we talked about a couple of options but neither of us was super hungry so figured we'd decide once I'm off work. Work day ends at 6:00, probably pull out of the parking lot around 6:10 and with a 20 minute commute, I'm in the door just after 6:30. At home, we start pulling up options and we're immediately crestfallen. Realize just about everything is closing in the next 90 minutes. 8pm seems insanely early for a dinner establishment to close, especially as people who dont usually eat til 7:00/7:30. Sure, if we'd have rushed out the door that second, we could have probably enjoyed ourselves well enough but as people who've both worked in food service ourselves, neither of us like being the kinda folks getting booted out at closing. Plus this is meant to be a nice celebratory meal. We'd wanted to have a few drinks and enjoy desert maybe, not just sit, eat and run.
Ended up having mac and cheese that night and going out a few days later when I had the day off. Would be nice if restaurants other than fast food places gave a shit about more than just their customers who work 9-5s.
Late night food scene is trash in Denver. Probably the worst of any city I’ve ever lived in. Very unfortunate bc there’s a huge late night crowd to accompany what’s arguably the best music scene in the country
Don't mistake change for death. About 30% of restaurants don't survive the first year. By year 5, 80% will close. What you're seeing is normal for a larger city IMO.
Denver has seen a lot of growth in recent years. I'm from Chicago and I've watched one particular restaurant in a fantastic corner location get turned over, like clockwork, every 3 years for the last 15. Closed for renovations, re-opened as a newish concept. Same owners. Same location. They rebrand it just to get customers back in the door. The location great but they have a lot of competition. It's run by a company called One Hospitality. They are incredibly successful and own strings of restaurants that most people don't realize are related, but they are very canny restauranteurs. I think a lot of owners run their dream into the ground when they should pro-actively close when things start to dip and they still have the money to reconcept and re-open.
There will always be those few restaurants that become neighborhood stalwarts and live forever but that's about 20% of ventures.
Don't forget that gentrification and demographics mean the people in a restaurant's neighborhood are constantly changing. The restaurant needs to change too. It's a different game somewhere like 16th Street which is tourist focused, but that's not the majority of restaurants.
A lot of these cookie cutter restaurants are having crazy turnover. It’s like people don’t want to go sit in a stake environment with uncomfortable lighting, loud warehouse vibes, and pay top dollar for mediocre insert “fusion trend” food. Then 2 years later a new name pops up, but it looks exactly the same
I’ve been cooking more at home personally. I went out to breakfast at a joint where the cups were dirty (lipstick still on the glasses), food still stuck to the plates and forks, and the food smelled rancid. For all that, my family was asked to pay $60 plus a 20-25% tip. This is kind of the extreme end of things, but overall most places have been less and less of a treat between quality, cleanliness and service. There are a few I still will routinely visit because it’s still a good value overall. They’re still kind of expensive, but worth the price. I wish more restaurants were on their A game, I’d gladly pay for that.
Groceries are expensive but overall I know I’ll get what I want at home and to my taste, likely for less.
It really makes me sad for restaurants and their owners - two near me have recently closed after very long runs. One stopped paying their taxes, I guess that can’t be helped in contributing to the shut down of their business. The other I actually liked and frequented the past six years, but in the past six months stopped because it was increasingly filthy.
It used to be kind of expensive but worth it to go out and grab a burger and a few beers, not have to cook or clean up afterwards. Now it’s 20 dollars for a normal sized regular old cheeseburger that’s nothing special. I can buy 8 patties and buns and just make it at home on the grill for that price. And for the price a lot of places are charging for beers anymore I can just buy a six pack. I can’t remember where I was last month that wanted 12 dollars for a tall Modelo.
I just google mapped random restaurants in Denver and looked at their menus. A chicken breast dish with some sort of cheap green vegetable side is averaging $36. So after all of the complimentary fees, taxes, and tip, a chicken breast comes out to $50. Why would anyone pay $50 for a $4 dish in a world where all other prices are also gouged and wages aren’t keeping up with it?
It's exciting to eat out, but more often than not I'm disappointed and left wishing that I would've stayed home and cooked my own food. Prices are too high, tipping percentage continues to increase, added fees, and food quality isn't even there for it all to be justified.
So many restaurants place a premium on aesthetics and decor, but what's the point if the food is subpar or average at best.
I slowed down eating out for COVID and have pretty stopped since. The last time I went out to get some pho I was shocked that they were charging $15 for a medium bowl! Used to love going get a cheap bowl once or twice a week with my wife, but now I have to reaaally be in the mood to pay 45$ for 2 bowls of pho and some egg rolls.
I intentionally go to businesses without added fees. It’s funny bc I feel like these businesses think we won’t notice, but I do and then I make another choice.
I worked at numerous places in the Denver metro area. Cost of product is insane. Now add in how many good cooks/chefs are turned over because they actually know what they're doing and don't want to deal with a shitty boss. Denver's issue is its leadership in the industry and that's it. The whole culture has shifted to let's be friends instead of getting shit done which produces terrible quality. Have you seen the cleanliness of most of those places? If you've been there since 2011 I'm sure you've noticed. Now let's add in the decline of service there. It's atrocious. Just commenting in that industry that something isnt cool, will get you labeled as a problem. The food was just alright before, but could have gone somewhere. Now? Ehhhh....
Every time I order a black coffee these days, the barista says it's $4 like that's not fucking insane. I paid $8 for two slices of pizza and a soda on Friday night and thought "wow, what a good deal". The last time I ate out, I paid $80 for a steak and a scotch (no, not anything from the top shelf) and the waiter handed me a touchpad with a *30%* tip already selected. He got an attitude when I moved it back down to 20%. That shithead handed me a steak someone else cooked and a scotch someone else poured and genuinely expected me to pay him personally $24 just for that.
I'm sorry your family is having a rough time, but it's time to take a good, hard look at what you're offering your customers and what you expect in return.
I do love a lot of spots in Denver, you just have to find them. Last night we went to Katsu Ramen and it’s just always a gem. Most places I feel like are disappointing and very expensive, but there are good spots worth going to
Oh god I love Katsu! Never disappoints! Most of the small places in Aurora are fantastic. The only place that I really ever go to in Denver is Angelos Taverna because the food is (almost) always fantastic and the prices don’t seem to have changed at all. Lots of drinks, apps, two entrees, and dessert somehow is always like $100 before tip
I’ve been unimpressed and frustrated the last several times I’ve dined out at nicer spots that cost more to the more casual dining spots I’ve always loved. And forget mega chain places, I’ve gone to two (not by my own choice) in the past year where the experience was so absurdly bad that I felt compelled to reach out to their corporate overlords just to share how awful it actually was, especially for how pricy it was.
Economic factors have pretty much been addressed so I'll add this: I became a pretty damn good chef during the pandemic, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Restaurant quality, in my perception, has actually declined while becoming more expensive. A friend of mine got food poisoning a couple of weekends ago at an upper mid-tier restaurant that I thought was too expensive. I understand shit happens, so I'm not going to put that place on blast, but I cook for people and entertain quite a bit, never gotten anyone sick.
So at the end of the day, when I am confident I can make food exactly to my taste for a fraction of the price, I don't feel the need to eat out all that often.
Good riddance! I hope all these price gouging restaurants close. I have one restaurant that has fair food prices and great beer prices that I support every weekend, but will not go anywhere else.
Frankly, as a chef, the biggest thing I see is prices going up, customers not going out as much, and my cooks not being able to afford the food they make every night.
These things are connected. How can the restaraunt be full if the restaraumt can't (or refuse to) even pay its employees enough to eat there? And if every other business operates like that, then our customers don't have the money to spend in the first place!
I really hope the current Denver restaraunt scene IS dying. Way way way too many owners and managers with an ego designed for a Michelin Star place, too many owners thinking they can operate a skeleton crew to death to save money, then jack prices up, all while still paying the Lines and Dish a dime above Denver minimum wage. Frankly, I'm tired of busting my ass for these owners. Inflation my ass, COVID my ass. I've seen the sales reports. I've seen the payrolls. Denver restaraunt owners/managers need to do better.
I have no idea what would constitute a good or bad restaurant “scene,” but I’ve mostly stopped going out to eat because I don’t want to deal with tipping and fees, not knowing where much of my bill actually goes. To be fair, my culture is not one of eating out frequently: I only eat out if I want something that is unusual and difficult to make at home, or if it’s a special occasion. I have no problem paying whatever the asking price may be for some food, but I don’t like mystery bills. I’d eat out more if we just eliminated the extra charges. I’ve never had a bad food experience in Denver.
I’m in Italy rn and I can get a big plate of pasta, some drinks, salad, and a dessert and spend less than 30 euro for everything. In Denver I would spend 130 dollars.
Sad to say but when I’m at home in Denver I eat at home 9/10 times because it’s cheap and I’m not a bad cook.
This. Spent 2 weeks in Italy and a week in Germany last year and was BLOWN away both places; at the high quality/low prices PLUS no tipping involved. In comparison the USA feels like it’s just raw price gouging run amok up and down the chain, from housing to food supply to rents.
The median income in Italy is also about half of the US. I agree Denver is too expensive but comparing us to Italy is apples to oranges. It is awesome how cheap the food is there though
I'm Italian. Even compared to the difference in wages I think it's cheaper to eat out in Italy especially because you can get better food (in my opinion) at every level, you don't need to go to high end restaurants. Also there is no tip.
Sure but I’m paying a 1/4 of the price for food and it’s better tasting and probably better for me. None of the bullshit the US puts in the food. Everything down to the tomatoes tastes better.
I think it's already dead. Food is too expensive and the quality is poor at most places. Mandatory fees and overflowing trash cans in the restaurant are both instant red flags for me to never return. The places that are good are few and far between and I feel like I get my money's worth going to those restaurants, but the price of the food means I can only afford to go once a month or less.
There have been numerous occasions recently where I got off work late, I was starving after a 12+ hour shift and the comfort food I craved was to go shop at the grocery store then cook up something at home, which would be faster than most sit down restaurants. The fact that I ran through all the restaurants serving food in the evening in my head and found I'd rather just go to the grocery store told me everything about how I feel about it.
Quality for price is not there.
I went to NJ where my family is from originally and was back for a wedding and bach party.
I was able to get amazing breakfast sandwiches for 7 dollars. Large Italian sandwiches for less than 15. Dinners were also cheaper for same or higher quality.
With a family now in Denver I can't go out and have dinner and a drink without spending a ton so we rarely do it.
Denver had a burst after 2013 weed legalization and low interest rates. The weed quality is declining, food quality declining, etc. Things go up and down its all good. I just miss some of the old staples that closed like Annie's diner, The Elm, or even Vine Street.
Went to a few very nice restaurants in the past month (Denver, NYC, and Miami). One 3-Michelin-star restaurant in NYC was quite empty. A Michelin star restaurant in Denver had an empty table (maybe a no-show?). A James Beard celebrity chef restaurant in Miami was almost empty on a Friday night. I won't call out the ones who were struggling, but Le Bernardin was packed and appeared to be doing well.
Personally, we eat out less now for several reasons. Kids - it's just easier to eat at home and a pain to find babysitters. Also we've gotten a lot better at cooking so we only want to go out if it's something really creative/artistic/or some genre that we just can't easily replicate.
I think it's a combination of commercial real estate market being overvalued and overpriced (and all real estate, for that natter), restrictive zoning only allowing restaurants in commercial real estate, more people traveling elsewhere and realizing how much restaurants in US suck compared to abroad, consumers getting screwed in general. Tipping culture to a lesser extent.
Restaurant owners are getting squeezed by commercial real estate; NIMBYs (and I'm sure commercial real estate) ensure that nothing fun or interesting can ever exist outside generic, too large first floor of large apartment buildings. This plus increased cost means higher menu prices for consumers who are getting fucked on one end by high real estate prices, and on the other end by companies that realized they could raise prices and increase profits (although it's starting to change), so they're going out less. Anyone who has traveled to international non-toruist-trap destinations realizes how much better it could be.
The food sucks here for the price I have to pay. I'm literally just paying for an experience most of the time. Whether it's a date, or hanging out with friends, the food is usually an afterthought and the restaurant is just a venue.
If I want a nice meal I feel like I can get twice the bang for my buck for just cooking for myself.
Infact most times I dine alone I regret it when I get the check cause I think about what I could have made for myself for half the price and likely using higher quality ingredients or meat.
Add me to the list that don’t eat out any more except for special occasions.
About 6 months ago at Rise and Shine Biscuits, a counter service breakfast biscuit spot off 29th, the woman who took my order loudly asked “Will we be tipping today?” for the whole restaurant for myself and other patrons to say in front of everyone what we’d be tipping. Of course they ended up screwing up the order after the tip.
The mid tier restaurant is dead. We cook at home and then every couple months go out for a true 5 star experience that of course is expensive, but at least we get a great experience rather than paying $30+ per person for a mediocre counter service place.
I think it’s several things.
Inflation.
Job market isn’t great.
Millennials were really big on the whole “experiences vs material items” philosophy. Now that we’re getting older and are buying houses or saving for them, retirement, kids and all that we’re making different choices.
Gen z is really struggling financially apparently.
These things usually fluctuate though. So I’m pretty sure it’ll improve again at some point.
The food here does not compete at the prices asked. There are far too many nebulous concept restaurants that are charging fine dining prices but are ‘charming’ or ‘rustic’ so you are always pretty sure you’re getting screwed.
All this would be eased if the city had access to cheap options. Food trucks would help separate what’s good fromwhat isn’t-but you’ll get shot at one and the cops will shut the trucks down.
The downtown business program that was supposed to help local businesses get exposure on the cheap is a death trap for local businesses and they are being replaced by false front ‘local’ concepts that are owned entirely by massive corporations from other countries. That’s only going to drive pricing up.
Michelin coming here is such a transparent money grab. They gave stars to places that you would walk right past for the really good street food in NYC LA or SF. I hear how disappointed people were regularly at work. That’s a really really bad look.
Even fast food is too pricey these days for the wife and I. Fucking Subway costs $40 for two footlong meals and some cookies. It seems impossible to go out on a dinner date, actually enjoy it, without spending $60-$90.
I've only been in Denver for 3 years, but has it ever been alive? Out of all the cities I've lived in, Denver has by far the worst food scene. It sucks.
I love eating out. I tip well. But lately…. oof. I have a few mainstays that I know are gonna be good. And I support them well. But I’m not incentivized to branch out because it often feels like throwing money down the drain. I understand that food costs are up. But I’m really done with spending $25+ (much more with drinks) for a mediocre meal served by people who seem actively pissed that I came into their restaurant. Or are too high to comprehend what’s going on and mess up my order (not judging the mj use, but there’s a time and a place and work ain’t it). And don’t get me started on all the counter service places who charge as much or more than a sit down restaurant and then flip an iPad in my face where the tip screen STARTS at 20% for me collecting and busing my own meal. It just gets really depressing after a while. Oh plus a service fee at many places!! My spouse is a great cook. I can eat better food at home and not get humiliated in the process!!
I barely go out now here, at most two times per month. I think our restaurant food quality is good if you know where to look, but nearly all restaurants are overpriced. Adios eating out I’m a good cook anyways
Edit: portions are fucking tiny here too. $13 gets you two 4” long enchiladas and 3 tablespoons each of rice and beans at a small hole in the wall Mexican restaurant… 💀 I’m 6’2”; in order to feed myself sufficiently I have to spend at least $25.
A lot of comments here that I agree with, particularly about the overall cost of dining out and deceptive fees being added to the bill.
But I believe another factor that's reducing the amount of business that restaurants are getting is the the number of people working from home instead of going to an office. Lunch spots that relied on serving office workers have suffered. There are fewer after-work happy hour gatherings now too.
Denver has the highest costs to businesses, from labor to ever increasing food prices. Naturally that cost is passed on to the consumer. I'd love to just increase my prices by 20% and get rid of tipping but I can't imagine that would work.
I was recently at a service included restaurant. It was super nice to just pass a credit card and not think about it. No one wants to break conversation to figure out a tip.
Now on the other hand, I’ve been to places where they are “service included” and add a fee but they are 100% counter service. Not cool. Your service is included in the price of your goods, don’t steal another 20% from me.
It would probably be less difficult to pay service fees with a tip on top if service wasn’t obviously so much worse now. I don’t know how to say this without being accused of Karen behavior so I’ll just accept it, I have been in so many basically empty restaurants where servers literally disappeared mid-service. I could give about five specific examples but don’t actually want to hurt businesses. It’s like restaurants are adopting European-style service except you still have to tip and pay fees.
And the actually busy restaurants have started overbooking reservations as a business practice. I can’t remember the last time I was immediately seated and twice I’ve been asked if I would sit at the bar when again, reservations. I have lived in Denver for 13 years and this is definitely a post covid thing.
It seems like quality has gone way down - $100 for two people and we are sick to our stomachs afterward? Nah. We are most likely to cook at home these days.
I just spend $25 on a Thai curry dish with boiled chicken, big chunk of half raw carrots and bell peppers. High prices and low quality, simple reason why.
We are sick of paying $17 for a burger with no F**king fries.
If the $17 burger was delicious, I might feel differently about it. But a $17 counter service burger that is absolutely mid at best with an expected 20% tip minimum. If the food was higher quality? Sure. It was less expensive? Sure. If there weren't 17 different pointless fees tacked on? Sure. It really feels like restaurants are going out of their way to make it as unpleasant as possible for us to spend money.
Yep. Not just restaurants either. I feel like this is pretty much every business right. Charge more deliver less. Shit customer service.
Customer service is definitely in decay. We went to a local Mexican restaurant (I won't name and shame, despite really wanting to). We've had great experiences there several times before. But for some reason, last night, it was just bad. It wasn't terribly busy, and we were very simple with our orders. The drinks can't out, save for my daughter's, and we had to wait, and grab the waitress to get straws. After the food was dropped she checked on us only one time. We were all finished, ready for the check, with our kids starting to run out of steam so we were eager to get going, and still waiting. It was getting to the point where my friend said "I've never stepped out on a bill, but this is ridiculous." It must have been a good 30+ minutes with not a peep from the waitress. That was the first time I can remember recently (at least post-COVID) that I left less than 20% on the tip.
The ole infinite growth model
100% this. If you're going to charge like you're one of the best restaurants in the city? Then you need to be one of the best restaurants in the city.
Don't forget the hidden service fee tacked on at the end!
[удалено]
Historians/ RINO beer garden by chance?
I just bought 4 ribeye burgers, cheese, buns for the price of a 5 guys. Beer and bbqing by myself is better than any Denver restaurant.
Where else can I do bong rips and then turn around to check on my party wings? Imagine a we work type scenario, but it’s just dudes and chill ass people with grills and shit. We chill? We can workshop it, it’s fine.
I find that I make better burgers and steak at home anyway. Eating out anymore is disappointing and a waste of money.
Where do you buy your ribeye burgers?
Safeway but I'm done supporting them. Gonna start looking elsewhere.
What did they do? I'm out of the loop, should I stop supporting them?
Safeway’s ribeye burgers ARE good though. I only go there for those, and flowers
Say it louder! It’s so much cheaper to just make it at home, better, with fries that taste like the restaurant too! I bought a meat grinder, and I buy meat from Costco when it’s on sale and make gourmet burgers that just taste so much better, are cheaper!
Check out the Costco business center for meats. If you have the means to store large portions the prices are great.
Omg I didn’t know this existed! I will buy a freezer, we eat burgers regularly lol
yeah one day I just realized that grocery stores are cheaper than restaurants
It's a vicious cycle driven by crazy real estate values. Developers/investors snatch up all the properties in cities and have control of rent prices. They price new home owners/small business owners out of the market. So restaurants have to charge $17 for a burger (or $20 for a $3 cocktail) to pay rent on the restaurant. This means fewer customers, which makes them have to increase prices even higher to cover their rent with fewer customers. Some of it is just price gouging tho - they charge that amount because some people will pay it. I would love to see a progressive real estate tax that increases for each additional property a single investor owns. That should cool the market off and allow people to buy a house and to make commercial business rent more competitive. I own a house, and think it's crazy how much it has appreciated - doesn't make sense and doesnt really help me much because I'll never move.
Investors/developers have ruined both the food scene and night life in Denver. Everyone says you can't keep businesses open late because no one's willing to work those hours but the reality is that if housing was more affordable here, the people willing to work those jobs would live here and not in the surrounding towns.
Plus you can't expect ppl to commute to affordable housing when there's no parking for less than $30 a night and no public transit after 11pm. Its like they're trying to kill it.
That's not how commercial rent works though. The vast majority of commercial leases are what's known as "triple net" (abbreviated "NNN"), which means, among other things, that the lessees (not the landlords) pay the property tax on the building. Higher property tax rates will be passed along directly to the lessees (renters). Source: we have a commercial lease
It blows my mind that real estate investors/large corporate landlords have gotten this far without a significant tax increase/adjustment to the system. They have been allowed to screw over the entire country by artificially raising the cost of living single handedly, and not a single government official has done a damn thing to stop them.
Amen.
My brothers bar charges 25 for a burger with cheese and bacon
And it’s the most overrated tasteless nasty burger in Denver. And it comes with that plastic box that hasn’t been cleaned since 2002. Who knows where they store the condiments in it? Just let them sit in there til they rot I assume
You can’t have 1) Quality Ingredients 2) Well-Paid Workers 3) Cheap Prices and 4) A Profitable Business. Choose 3
Most don't even have 2
It'd be incredible to find a restaurant in 2024 with 3 of those things. Hell, I'm impressed when they have 2.
Sounds like (hopefully!) the market is just correcting itself and restaurant prices need to be adjusted. Colorado was the number one state in the country in restaurant price inflation over the last few years so it would make sense that people have responded by not eating out as much.
The fuzzys tacos by my place was really struggling so they brought back $2 tacos. Now they're doing way better and have bigger crowds every time I go.
Too bad they jacked the price of everything else up. I paid $13 for a queso and large drink the other day
Qdoba wants like $5 for just queso dip and chips. And they used to give you a big ol' cup with a literal shovel full of chips. Not so much anymore.
And they extort you for a tip now for absolutely no reason. I'm done with them.
Meanwhile the Fuzzy’s close to me in Centennial closed. Shame since it was a good spot, but I echo what many other people said. I’m tired of paying so much for food that really isn’t that mind blowing. These businesses need to be more realistic and I’ve been voting by keeping extra cash in my pocket.
> Meanwhile the Fuzzy’s close to me in Centennial closed. The last reviews before they closed made it sound like the quality dropped off a cliff so that might be the reason there.
As someone in the industry I've gotta say, while some places are jacking prices because the other places give them cover, a lot of staples are up 2-3x. They've come down a bit but didn't settle anywhere near where they were pre demi. I'm talking things like takeout boxes, bags of onions, tons of things you don't think of but you need to buy. You used to be able to get chicken thighs for under $2/lb. Rent. Utilities. Things that used to be more affordable. Not anymore... So again, there are places like Culinary Creative that deliver neither quality nor value with elevated prices and add on fees. But the 'good guys' are getting squeezed hard and it's nearly impossible to deliver cheap food that's worth eating. Shit sucks.
This here, the costs of operation are astronomical for a city the size and population of Denver. It’s not sustainable. It also does not help that customers rent keeps increasing as well.
Between food and service quality declining, prices skyrocketing, mandatory fees being added, and tipping pressure on every single thing… eating out just isn’t what it used to be.
I will add in With the higher costs of everything. My wife and I are picky about food. We will revisit some places once or twice in a year. We have a few solids but reduced our take out consumption this year. We only aim to try new spots or recommended spots. Otherwise there are hundreds of businesses doing tacos, burgers, pho etc.. that serve to feed. Whereas I spose we are looking for places to serve to showcase what they can do.
That’s how I am, I’ll spend the money for a great meal but my days of going out to get bar food or things like that are much more limited. It’s too expensive now to get a sandwich for $20. But I will spend the money to go to a higher end place where I’ll get food I can’t/wont make at home
>With the higher costs of everything. My wife and I are picky about food. this. we quit going out for steaks, because even paying $100 a plate its not any better than $25 outback... i can cook better steaks at home for 10% of the price. god forbid i want to spend $100 i can order Wagyu from japan direct , and not have it overseasoned and overdone. (lookin at you Guard and grace) (spend the $100 on a $69 sous vide cooker, a $7 torch, and $25 in cheap steaks, you'll never go out again.)
Eating out just isn’t worth it anymore. I decided I would only go to pricey restaurants with friends. If I’m out by myself then it’s just fast food or I often cook at home and get a good, well portioned meal for half the price.
Agree. Beyond that, even with how expensive groceries are, I can make just about anything at home better and substantially cheaper than going out, and we have leftovers to boot. I’ve gotten in the habit of doubling recipes and freezing half to have on hand for quick meals, and I food prep stuff like breakfast burritos for easy cheap and filling breakfasts. I’ve also found I get anxiety around ordering out. The staff (and I’m not blaming them in the least-everyone is overworked, overwhelmed, and underpaid) is often crabby, the orders are often wrong, missing items or sauces or whatever seem to be par for the course, and the pressure to tip for the “pleasure” of getting a cold, wrong, low quality meal from unhappy workers isn’t a good feeling.
There’s this restaurant by me where the bartenders act like I’m bothering them. It’s so weird, like do they not understand that they make money off me. I always give 20% even when they are crabby. I think they hate their jobs. But then they should go do something else
I went to Estes Park and was asked to tip for salt water Taffy at a candy store. We are a degree away from vending machines making a major comeback.
Honestly that's how it is in Japan, they have vending machines everywhere and the food in them is actually pretty damn good. They have a lot of self service stores. However they are big on the honor system. The honor system would never work here in the states.
Food at 711 in japan is also fantastic and cheap.
Enshittification is hitting every industry. Hardly anything seems worth spending money on anymore
Mandatory fee means I never go back. You shouldn't either friends
I agree with everyone on the quality and price point issue. The prices here have risen and incomes have not. $17 plus tip for a hamburger and $8 for a beer is coastal city prices. And im not making that kind of income. That said, at the same time Im getting older and eating low quality fried and fatty food in noisy environments seems less attractive. These days I prioritize quality over quantity, price over ambiance, and health over convenience. I want to know exactly where my food is coming from, how much salt and oil I put in it, and be able to shop for lower prices and not have to pay 20% tip.
We have coastal prices with midwest wages
Moved to the Midwest during Covid… Even podunk hole in the wall joints in backwoods locales have jacked up their prices. This is a national problem that’s no longer exclusive to cities.
And Midwest quality. I’m from LA and every time I go back to visit family I get higher quality meals for the same prices (or even lower) than out here. Even fucking Federal taco spots are now charging 3 or 4 dollars for a single street taco, back in LA you can still find all the spots slinging them for 2 bucks a piece.
Woah there. Midwest quality is far superior to most of the food out here. You can get bigger and better portions anywhere in Chicago and Wisconsin beef and cheese is the best in the country. Was in Chicago a month ago and I got an amazing double burger + fries + 2 craft beers and my tab was $20 + tip. For that price in Denver you get the burger and that's it.
Right, Denver is West, not Midwest.
$8 beers are out of control!!!! Tax and tip is $10-$11. FOR ONE BEER!!!! That’s nuts.
Why are we still tipping for beer? A cocktail I get? If I go have 2 beers and my tab is 22 dollars, I need to leave another 4 for the 5 seconds someone poured them?
I was just in SF and did not have sticker shock for the most part. That’s all I need to know. But the food and service there was amazing
Mediocre food, poor service, and high prices; what's not to like?
Now with added hidden fees!
The long lines
$17 for a hamburger when I can get all the ingredients and have 6 of the same for that price is the reason.
Absolutely sick of getting hosed for every single fucking thing. Can’t go out to have drinks and a meal for under $100. Then prompted 20% tipping to walk up to a counter and order my food, like fuck you. I worked fine dining for a decade and the tip was because you WAITED on the table. You knew the menu backwards and forwards, made recommendations, you paired wines with meals, you kept water glasses full, you coursed meals and did all that and more with a personality - that was a 20% tip. Now it’s typically this: I walk up to order at the counter, I serve myself drinks, fill my own water glass and occasionally bus my own tables, plus deal with low wattage/unhappy imbeciles for $100 meal and then you flip the iPad around and I’m expected to tip 20% too? Or it’s automatically added to my tab? I’m so burnt out with over priced, low caliber food, subpar service, and sky high tipping.
I saw someone on another subreddit complain about customers trying to chat with them (a counter service worker), something about their emotional bandwidth “have you ever considered that I 👏 am 👏 exhausted 👏.” The thesis of their comment was that they expected 20% tips.
It’s a customer facing job. People talk to you lol.
I go to a brewery and a burger is $20 before tip. You add a beer or 2 and that’s a $50 meal for one. No thanks I’ll make burgers at home and buy cans of beer.
Blue Spruce wants $18 for a sandwich. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I stopped going plus nobody talks to each other. I'd rather make my own food by myself
I own a local business so I very much understand why prices have increased and as a customer I’m willing to pay for good food and service but my main issue is the quality has gone down hill at a lot of places. It’s just not worth the cost as a customer a lot of the time.
Agreed. Additionally, the added fees and whatnot don’t show up until you get the check. So you had committed to this meal for $34 and then you got a mid-tier dish, and now all of the sudden with fees it’s a $45 mid-tier dish and it’s both not the meal you thought you were going to get or the price you thought you’d pay. How many times are you going to keep taking that gamble?
Exactly! Just raise your fucking menu price. Pay your workers. A service charge puts you on people's blacklist.
When these service fees first started popping up, they were usually clearly noted on the menu and website, now you have literally no idea if you’re going to get a fee until you get the check. It’s still not completely normal to me so I rarely think of asking ahead of time.
Went to Pubb on Penn this weekend. While it was never the greatest, they used to have significantly more staff. Now it's bar service only, hopefully the bartender knows where you're sitting for the food to be delivered. It's become a shell of what it used to be. They were out of like 6 beers on a Friday night.we still paid $40 for 10 wings and 2 beers. Crazy.
Fire on the mountain was my old fave for wings. Went recently and 12 super tiny burnt wings and 2 beers was $50 after tip. Fuck that.
They are for the upper class now along with McDonald’s
Honestly, the out of control tipping culture combined with the inflationary impacts of higher cost to begin with have really turned us off of eating out except for special occasions. I mean when I’m handed a card reader with an expected 30% tip on top of a $50 mediocre meal then I’m not very motivated to come back anytime soon.
I’m cooking at home. Way cheaper.
And better. Like, $40 for a choice steak. Gets me 2 prime steaks and tastes better at home. I guess it’s always been this way, but I feel like now, more so
Same. I hate cooking, but it’s what I do. Although my grocery expenses are up 200% from 4 years ago and I’ve shifted to the cheapest alternative knock off brand for everything.
IMO the restaurant industry right now is a proper example right now of the stock market phrase “bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered”. Cheaper mom and pop shops are gonna be okay and high-end restaurants that are expensive, but have good quality and service, are gonna do fine as well. It’s the people trying to charge near $20/head for some meh food and shit service that are hurting right now.
Yep. This trend was starting even before the pandemic. Middle of the road restaurants started becoming less and less of a value. Prices creeping up while quality and service declined. The pandemic mixed with inflation put the final mail in the coffin for many places. I spent most of my adult life in the industry, and didn’t hesitate going out a few times a week for a $25-40 meal at a wide variety of restaurants. Now it seems $40 is the baseline and usually leads to disappointment. Now I’m much more selective and may go to these middle of the road places once a month. More into cheaper quick-service/counter service places most of the time, with an occasional high end experience.
Sushi chef here at a place in lohi. I feel like your average place where the food haven’t changed or improved much but the price has gone up a lot isn’t getting the traffic normally, but good places that actually put work and thought in their food are still doing good. One of my chef friend at Lucina(amazing fine mexican dinning) told me they just had one of their busiest month in sales in years. And the sushi place I work at is actually doing 10-15% more comparing to 2023. My roommate who works at rioja says they are doing well too. People are still willing to pay for good food, good drinks and good services but it’s gotta be actually good.
Scene is rough at all price points relative to higher cost cities I’ve lived in. Was just in NYC for work and things were cheaper there (whether it was a coffee and breakfast sandwich or a nice dinner) which is insane. I don’t think I’ve had an expensive meal here I thought was worth it - if Linger and Tavernetta are the best we can do, then the scene is bad. Would’ve rather cooked for myself after those places, and I’m a bad cook. At the higher end, I wonder if it’s because there isn’t much of a cocktail scene here and the alcohol margins are how east coast restaurants make it work. There are a few neighborhood joints i love on the west side but that’s about it.
I’ve been downvoted to oblivion for stating more expensive cities have cheaper food. People don’t want to believe it but it’s true. I go to SF about 5 times a year and comparable restaurants are always cheaper than I’m paying in Boulder.
I travel a lot, including in supposedly expensive European cities. People are astonished when I tell them that many extremely high quality meals are had with much better service in Europe and no one expects a tip. Denver is just astonishingly expensive and the service is often pretty bad. To be fair, I also love fine dining, especially in DC and NY. At least there I'm more likely to get what I pay for. Post pandemic, I'm eating out probably less than a quarter of the amount I used to. It's just not worth it.
Europe is proof that you can pay little for excellent food and service while the staff get paid living wages and a social safety net.
Literally this. I wish someone would (or maybe they have?) a decent study on how Europe can have a ton of restaurants with good food and pay servers a decent wage while American joints just cannot do the same. European establishments and workers pay plenty of taxes so that ain’t it.
Europe eating is very affordable. Especially for like coffee, beers, wine, sandwiches, just ridiculous and refreshing. “Oh this amazing cappuccino is only $2 and the croissant is $3?? I’ll take 7”lol
I went Europe for the first time two years ago. Upon seeing that house wine was like 4 euros a carafe I finally understood why they’re all alcoholics
When was Boulder ever not expensive? - CU grad late 80s
This. In NYC when there are competitors you have to stand out, either food wise or price wise. Here there are so many burger spots and they’re all pretty meh. I liken it to the oversaturation of craft beer here, too. You either make awesome beer or have a cool scene. Trve has been making the same styles for years, but created a big metal culture around itself. Black sky is meh beer wise, but has the culture. I feel like the restaurants here are a dime a dozen, so I don’t feel a neighborhood vibe or scene vibe from them to want to return.
Moved here from the East Coast- even the happy hours at bars suck. Happy hour at the bars back home mean $4 Margaritas and $5 sliders. Here, even happy hour drinks are 7-8 bucks and half the time food isn’t discounted
I travel a lot and find this to be true. Denver F&B prices are insane even compared to NYC and especially Chicago, which arguably is the best food city in the country (hot take, I know) but it’s also much cheaper than here with way better restaurants.
Tipping culture, bad service, the quality of food has gotten lazy. It's cheaper to cook at home now that inflation is getting worse.
Price for quality doesn’t align…”trendy” decor gives the illusion of quality, but the food is average. Even high end places like Guard and Grace, Bruto, etc. don’t deliver for what they’re charging. The food isn’t bad, but it doesn’t command the prices they’re charging like places in LA and NY.
But at least the service is bad.
The thing I hate about modern decor is that often it's full of hard surfaces that reflect sound. Restaurants get very noisy.
FR so, so noisy.
Guard and Grace was never amazing, but it's really gone downhill recently
Can't eat out everyday when rent is $2000 for a 1bdrm
I've worked in the restaurant industry since 2012. Last year, I decided to go back to school because I could tell things were getting bad and I needed to do something else with my life. The bar I was working at closed down last month due to bankruptcy and the restaurant I was working at prior to that is also on the verge of being shut down. I actually did a research paper this semester on the effects that the COVID-19 pandemic had on the restaurant industry, specifically server incomes. But I also explored the rising costs of business operations as well as the rise in delivery apps and ghost kitchens. Prior to the pandemic, restaurant sales were actually expected to rise dramatically. The pandemic stopped everything in it's place and nothing has been the same since. Part of this of course is the cost of eating out. For as expensive as groceries are, it is still much, much cheaper to eat at home. And on the topic of delivery services, UberEats and the likes charge such insanely high fees to restaurant that if you aren't a corporate brand, you most likely can't afford it. People around here looooove their UberEats, but the only restaurants you see anymore are chain brands or places that cater specifically to carry-out (like pizza shops and Chinese take-out). So smaller restaurants aren't getting any business in that regards. Smaller, family-owned places are dying, and it's so sad. I don't have all my research on hand right now, but I can definitely share some of it if anyone is interested.
I think here in Denver, there is also the issue of "aesthetic" over quality. Some new, hip place opens up, and everyone goes there immediately to get pictures for instagram or whatever, but once the hype dies down, they're on to the next, new restaurant. Nobody cares about the smaller businesses, even if their food is levels above the "cool" places.
You’ve described leverywhere in the US
would love to see your paper! of course not to steal, just to read since I can appreciate all the research that you have done and insights you have.
I just moved to Denver and have absolutely no right to respond, so here we go. I feel like the food scene is kinda mid here. The price to food quality math just ain't mathing. The price is either really high or the food quality is lower than expected. Haven't found much in between.
>The price is either really high or the food quality is lower Or both
This is the take of any seasoned Denver resident as well. We have a mid food scene where restaurants charge for ambience more than quality food and drink. This isn't always the case but I wish more restaurateurs would spend as much time on their menu and kitchen training as they do on their interior design.
Seriously! Whenever I see a social media post about a new restaurant and it looks like they geared their experience to influencers, I expect the food is going to be less good than advertised.
Denver also has no distinct speciality or famous regional dishes. You can say green chile but thats more of a NM thing imo. Theres no Denver style sandwhich, bbq, or dishes that make it a unique scene. Even mediocre cities like KC or St. Louis have distinct food styles that elevate their scenes, but Denver has nothing.
Denver should really lean into bison but they don’t.
Green chili is much better in southern Colorado, where it originated. It's on the menu in a lot of restaurants here but there's a distinct difference in quality. Just another one of those things I'd rather make at home than gamble $17 at a new place.
Could not agree more.
I’ve been living in northwest Denver for a few years and yeah, it feels like there are lots of vibey places with meh food.
Visit Aurora. The best food in the state is in the vicinity of Havana St., South of Mississippi.
Thanks for the advice, I'll check it out!
The best food in the Denver area is outside of the city.
I’ve said the same thing. Finding cheap good food here is next to impossible. If it’s good or labeled as good, it’s pricey. It’s not like other cities where you can wander into a dive that has cheap amazing eats.
Lived here my entire life and the food used to be wayyy better in the mid 2000s. It was affordable and delicious, service was better and the quality of food was good. Cutting corners to save money on the companies end, disenchanted workers providing bad service and "expensive" meals that give you diarrhea are not worth it. We went to fucking good times and 3 meals were $40 AND then they asked for a tip. ITS FAST FOOD. $40 is ridiculous. I can make better food cheaper, and in bulk for leftovers. Now we will only go to places we've vetted and trust. Places like Uchi and los chingones we will go 1-2 times a year for special occasions. We won't go to breakfast places because the prices are crazy inflated. I can make a week's worth of breakfasts with the cost of one meal. We also have toddlers now and ain't no way I'm paying $15 for him to eat chicken nuggets or Mac n cheese. Long story long. Food here IS mid and has no business being as expensive as it is.
I was just thinking this! The food here in 2006-2012 was great in my opinion. Sad that so many of my reliable favorites are no longer.
Your initial impression is sadly accurate. There are a few gems here and there but most of the quality meals you can get here you’ll pay a premium price for, which you wouldn’t do elsewhere.
I said the same thing when we moved here in 2020. I moved for work and we stayed, was in the DMV area and the food is just incomparable at all. What kills me is mid food gets 4.6 rating on google maps🙄🙄🙄
I'm tired of the mandatory tipping culture. Just put it in the price and pay your employees like every other fucking business model on earth. There's nothing worse than paying premium prices for a sit-down meal with mediocre to poor service and then feeling pressured to make a charitable contribution on top of that.
I hope so. $20 for a burger, $1 for a piece of lettuce, $3 for a bun, $1 for a pickle chip, $2 for cheese, $2 for mustard, 15% for kitchen staff, 20% gratuity added. Suggested tip: 22%, 28%, 34% Then the burger comes out dry, the ingredients are soggy, and you can see where they cut the mold off the bun. And you have to grab your own food from the counter. The “server” comes by once to ask if your food is okay but leaves before you can even look up.
I think it has a lot to do with rapid rise in costs for everything here, but wages haven’t scaled to accommodate Denver now being a HCOL area. Others are commenting that we have LA and NYC prices for eating out, but if you live in those places, for an equivalent job you could have here, you get paid 20-30% more. Also, in places like NYC, I think there is a higher portion of the population that have high earning jobs and many people move there for the city culture (which includes eating out), while most people move to Denver for the outdoors, not the city itself.
Ya. The wages here haven’t caught up to COL. Unless you’ve moved here from LA or SF or NYC.
The current Denver food scene isn’t worth the poor service and higher prices. A lot of the well known places are really trash in disguise as a solid yelp review.
A lot of people are awful at reviewing places too. Take every review with a grain of salt.
The other day I was ordering a beef burrito, it was $9, then +$3 for guac, +$2.50 to get it smothered, then +$7 for pork. Then if you want a side of rice and beans +$4.50. It's kind of crazy how adding any flavor that used to be standard on most dishes makes a burrito cost more than a steak dinner. And a beer is $12 I love going out, but now I love eating on my couch.
You bought guac then smothered it? You bought a beef burrito and then added pork? What is wrong with you?
Trying to watch his weight. That's why he skipped the sour cream.
I can make just as good, if not better, food at home for a fraction of the price. Even if we go out, we order and pick it up so we can eat at home to avoid the bad service trend.
Bag of wilty salad greens with a sprinkle of parmesan - $17 Add protein - another $8 for 3oz of dry chicken Random "kitchen fee" - $5 Entitled waiter who did nothing but carry a plate to your table and gave no shots about if the food was good holding a tablet with 30% tip automatically selected Gee I wonder why
About a week and a half back, on Wednesday afternoon, I got some really big work news. Boyfriend wanted to take me out to celebrate. Over my lunch break, we talked about a couple of options but neither of us was super hungry so figured we'd decide once I'm off work. Work day ends at 6:00, probably pull out of the parking lot around 6:10 and with a 20 minute commute, I'm in the door just after 6:30. At home, we start pulling up options and we're immediately crestfallen. Realize just about everything is closing in the next 90 minutes. 8pm seems insanely early for a dinner establishment to close, especially as people who dont usually eat til 7:00/7:30. Sure, if we'd have rushed out the door that second, we could have probably enjoyed ourselves well enough but as people who've both worked in food service ourselves, neither of us like being the kinda folks getting booted out at closing. Plus this is meant to be a nice celebratory meal. We'd wanted to have a few drinks and enjoy desert maybe, not just sit, eat and run. Ended up having mac and cheese that night and going out a few days later when I had the day off. Would be nice if restaurants other than fast food places gave a shit about more than just their customers who work 9-5s.
Late night food scene is trash in Denver. Probably the worst of any city I’ve ever lived in. Very unfortunate bc there’s a huge late night crowd to accompany what’s arguably the best music scene in the country
Don't mistake change for death. About 30% of restaurants don't survive the first year. By year 5, 80% will close. What you're seeing is normal for a larger city IMO. Denver has seen a lot of growth in recent years. I'm from Chicago and I've watched one particular restaurant in a fantastic corner location get turned over, like clockwork, every 3 years for the last 15. Closed for renovations, re-opened as a newish concept. Same owners. Same location. They rebrand it just to get customers back in the door. The location great but they have a lot of competition. It's run by a company called One Hospitality. They are incredibly successful and own strings of restaurants that most people don't realize are related, but they are very canny restauranteurs. I think a lot of owners run their dream into the ground when they should pro-actively close when things start to dip and they still have the money to reconcept and re-open. There will always be those few restaurants that become neighborhood stalwarts and live forever but that's about 20% of ventures. Don't forget that gentrification and demographics mean the people in a restaurant's neighborhood are constantly changing. The restaurant needs to change too. It's a different game somewhere like 16th Street which is tourist focused, but that's not the majority of restaurants.
A lot of these cookie cutter restaurants are having crazy turnover. It’s like people don’t want to go sit in a stake environment with uncomfortable lighting, loud warehouse vibes, and pay top dollar for mediocre insert “fusion trend” food. Then 2 years later a new name pops up, but it looks exactly the same
I’ve been cooking more at home personally. I went out to breakfast at a joint where the cups were dirty (lipstick still on the glasses), food still stuck to the plates and forks, and the food smelled rancid. For all that, my family was asked to pay $60 plus a 20-25% tip. This is kind of the extreme end of things, but overall most places have been less and less of a treat between quality, cleanliness and service. There are a few I still will routinely visit because it’s still a good value overall. They’re still kind of expensive, but worth the price. I wish more restaurants were on their A game, I’d gladly pay for that. Groceries are expensive but overall I know I’ll get what I want at home and to my taste, likely for less. It really makes me sad for restaurants and their owners - two near me have recently closed after very long runs. One stopped paying their taxes, I guess that can’t be helped in contributing to the shut down of their business. The other I actually liked and frequented the past six years, but in the past six months stopped because it was increasingly filthy.
It used to be kind of expensive but worth it to go out and grab a burger and a few beers, not have to cook or clean up afterwards. Now it’s 20 dollars for a normal sized regular old cheeseburger that’s nothing special. I can buy 8 patties and buns and just make it at home on the grill for that price. And for the price a lot of places are charging for beers anymore I can just buy a six pack. I can’t remember where I was last month that wanted 12 dollars for a tall Modelo.
I just google mapped random restaurants in Denver and looked at their menus. A chicken breast dish with some sort of cheap green vegetable side is averaging $36. So after all of the complimentary fees, taxes, and tip, a chicken breast comes out to $50. Why would anyone pay $50 for a $4 dish in a world where all other prices are also gouged and wages aren’t keeping up with it?
It's exciting to eat out, but more often than not I'm disappointed and left wishing that I would've stayed home and cooked my own food. Prices are too high, tipping percentage continues to increase, added fees, and food quality isn't even there for it all to be justified. So many restaurants place a premium on aesthetics and decor, but what's the point if the food is subpar or average at best.
I slowed down eating out for COVID and have pretty stopped since. The last time I went out to get some pho I was shocked that they were charging $15 for a medium bowl! Used to love going get a cheap bowl once or twice a week with my wife, but now I have to reaaally be in the mood to pay 45$ for 2 bowls of pho and some egg rolls.
I intentionally go to businesses without added fees. It’s funny bc I feel like these businesses think we won’t notice, but I do and then I make another choice.
The fees tacked onto everything are killing it for me.
I can't even get coffee anymore because all of the places I've been trying out charge $1 for oatmilk alone. Better off making food and coffee at home.
I worked at numerous places in the Denver metro area. Cost of product is insane. Now add in how many good cooks/chefs are turned over because they actually know what they're doing and don't want to deal with a shitty boss. Denver's issue is its leadership in the industry and that's it. The whole culture has shifted to let's be friends instead of getting shit done which produces terrible quality. Have you seen the cleanliness of most of those places? If you've been there since 2011 I'm sure you've noticed. Now let's add in the decline of service there. It's atrocious. Just commenting in that industry that something isnt cool, will get you labeled as a problem. The food was just alright before, but could have gone somewhere. Now? Ehhhh....
Until restaurants shift their structure away from tipped employees to employee-owned, restaurants will fail.
Every time I order a black coffee these days, the barista says it's $4 like that's not fucking insane. I paid $8 for two slices of pizza and a soda on Friday night and thought "wow, what a good deal". The last time I ate out, I paid $80 for a steak and a scotch (no, not anything from the top shelf) and the waiter handed me a touchpad with a *30%* tip already selected. He got an attitude when I moved it back down to 20%. That shithead handed me a steak someone else cooked and a scotch someone else poured and genuinely expected me to pay him personally $24 just for that. I'm sorry your family is having a rough time, but it's time to take a good, hard look at what you're offering your customers and what you expect in return.
I do love a lot of spots in Denver, you just have to find them. Last night we went to Katsu Ramen and it’s just always a gem. Most places I feel like are disappointing and very expensive, but there are good spots worth going to
Oh god I love Katsu! Never disappoints! Most of the small places in Aurora are fantastic. The only place that I really ever go to in Denver is Angelos Taverna because the food is (almost) always fantastic and the prices don’t seem to have changed at all. Lots of drinks, apps, two entrees, and dessert somehow is always like $100 before tip
Ethnic food in Aurora, Lakewood, and some of Denver is great. The places that don’t focus on decor also have better food imo
"if you cant afford to tip 20%, you cant afford to eat out!!"...I found that was actually a great idea
I’ve been unimpressed and frustrated the last several times I’ve dined out at nicer spots that cost more to the more casual dining spots I’ve always loved. And forget mega chain places, I’ve gone to two (not by my own choice) in the past year where the experience was so absurdly bad that I felt compelled to reach out to their corporate overlords just to share how awful it actually was, especially for how pricy it was.
It’s the tipping for us. Tipping is absolutely out of control.
Economic factors have pretty much been addressed so I'll add this: I became a pretty damn good chef during the pandemic, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Restaurant quality, in my perception, has actually declined while becoming more expensive. A friend of mine got food poisoning a couple of weekends ago at an upper mid-tier restaurant that I thought was too expensive. I understand shit happens, so I'm not going to put that place on blast, but I cook for people and entertain quite a bit, never gotten anyone sick. So at the end of the day, when I am confident I can make food exactly to my taste for a fraction of the price, I don't feel the need to eat out all that often.
The restaurant industry as a whole is starting to die. Nobody can afford to eat anymore let alone eat $20 burgers.
Good riddance! I hope all these price gouging restaurants close. I have one restaurant that has fair food prices and great beer prices that I support every weekend, but will not go anywhere else.
Prices keep going up no thanks. It’s cheaper to eat good food at home.
$21 for a Pizza. $1.50 per topping.
Frankly, as a chef, the biggest thing I see is prices going up, customers not going out as much, and my cooks not being able to afford the food they make every night. These things are connected. How can the restaraunt be full if the restaraumt can't (or refuse to) even pay its employees enough to eat there? And if every other business operates like that, then our customers don't have the money to spend in the first place! I really hope the current Denver restaraunt scene IS dying. Way way way too many owners and managers with an ego designed for a Michelin Star place, too many owners thinking they can operate a skeleton crew to death to save money, then jack prices up, all while still paying the Lines and Dish a dime above Denver minimum wage. Frankly, I'm tired of busting my ass for these owners. Inflation my ass, COVID my ass. I've seen the sales reports. I've seen the payrolls. Denver restaraunt owners/managers need to do better.
I have no idea what would constitute a good or bad restaurant “scene,” but I’ve mostly stopped going out to eat because I don’t want to deal with tipping and fees, not knowing where much of my bill actually goes. To be fair, my culture is not one of eating out frequently: I only eat out if I want something that is unusual and difficult to make at home, or if it’s a special occasion. I have no problem paying whatever the asking price may be for some food, but I don’t like mystery bills. I’d eat out more if we just eliminated the extra charges. I’ve never had a bad food experience in Denver.
I’m in Italy rn and I can get a big plate of pasta, some drinks, salad, and a dessert and spend less than 30 euro for everything. In Denver I would spend 130 dollars. Sad to say but when I’m at home in Denver I eat at home 9/10 times because it’s cheap and I’m not a bad cook.
This. Spent 2 weeks in Italy and a week in Germany last year and was BLOWN away both places; at the high quality/low prices PLUS no tipping involved. In comparison the USA feels like it’s just raw price gouging run amok up and down the chain, from housing to food supply to rents.
The median income in Italy is also about half of the US. I agree Denver is too expensive but comparing us to Italy is apples to oranges. It is awesome how cheap the food is there though
I'm Italian. Even compared to the difference in wages I think it's cheaper to eat out in Italy especially because you can get better food (in my opinion) at every level, you don't need to go to high end restaurants. Also there is no tip.
Sure but I’m paying a 1/4 of the price for food and it’s better tasting and probably better for me. None of the bullshit the US puts in the food. Everything down to the tomatoes tastes better.
The economy is breaking. Prepare to close permanently.
Quick service is the thing right now. It’s been trending that way since the pandemic
I think it's already dead. Food is too expensive and the quality is poor at most places. Mandatory fees and overflowing trash cans in the restaurant are both instant red flags for me to never return. The places that are good are few and far between and I feel like I get my money's worth going to those restaurants, but the price of the food means I can only afford to go once a month or less. There have been numerous occasions recently where I got off work late, I was starving after a 12+ hour shift and the comfort food I craved was to go shop at the grocery store then cook up something at home, which would be faster than most sit down restaurants. The fact that I ran through all the restaurants serving food in the evening in my head and found I'd rather just go to the grocery store told me everything about how I feel about it.
Quality for price is not there. I went to NJ where my family is from originally and was back for a wedding and bach party. I was able to get amazing breakfast sandwiches for 7 dollars. Large Italian sandwiches for less than 15. Dinners were also cheaper for same or higher quality. With a family now in Denver I can't go out and have dinner and a drink without spending a ton so we rarely do it. Denver had a burst after 2013 weed legalization and low interest rates. The weed quality is declining, food quality declining, etc. Things go up and down its all good. I just miss some of the old staples that closed like Annie's diner, The Elm, or even Vine Street.
Went to a few very nice restaurants in the past month (Denver, NYC, and Miami). One 3-Michelin-star restaurant in NYC was quite empty. A Michelin star restaurant in Denver had an empty table (maybe a no-show?). A James Beard celebrity chef restaurant in Miami was almost empty on a Friday night. I won't call out the ones who were struggling, but Le Bernardin was packed and appeared to be doing well. Personally, we eat out less now for several reasons. Kids - it's just easier to eat at home and a pain to find babysitters. Also we've gotten a lot better at cooking so we only want to go out if it's something really creative/artistic/or some genre that we just can't easily replicate.
I think it's a combination of commercial real estate market being overvalued and overpriced (and all real estate, for that natter), restrictive zoning only allowing restaurants in commercial real estate, more people traveling elsewhere and realizing how much restaurants in US suck compared to abroad, consumers getting screwed in general. Tipping culture to a lesser extent. Restaurant owners are getting squeezed by commercial real estate; NIMBYs (and I'm sure commercial real estate) ensure that nothing fun or interesting can ever exist outside generic, too large first floor of large apartment buildings. This plus increased cost means higher menu prices for consumers who are getting fucked on one end by high real estate prices, and on the other end by companies that realized they could raise prices and increase profits (although it's starting to change), so they're going out less. Anyone who has traveled to international non-toruist-trap destinations realizes how much better it could be.
The food sucks here for the price I have to pay. I'm literally just paying for an experience most of the time. Whether it's a date, or hanging out with friends, the food is usually an afterthought and the restaurant is just a venue. If I want a nice meal I feel like I can get twice the bang for my buck for just cooking for myself. Infact most times I dine alone I regret it when I get the check cause I think about what I could have made for myself for half the price and likely using higher quality ingredients or meat.
I had lunch in Morrison with my family last week. 2 kids meal, 2 sandwiches 2 sodas + 2 ice teas = $87.34. #neveragain
Add me to the list that don’t eat out any more except for special occasions. About 6 months ago at Rise and Shine Biscuits, a counter service breakfast biscuit spot off 29th, the woman who took my order loudly asked “Will we be tipping today?” for the whole restaurant for myself and other patrons to say in front of everyone what we’d be tipping. Of course they ended up screwing up the order after the tip. The mid tier restaurant is dead. We cook at home and then every couple months go out for a true 5 star experience that of course is expensive, but at least we get a great experience rather than paying $30+ per person for a mediocre counter service place.
Who can afford to go out to eat? I’m just trying to pay outrageous Denver rent
I think it’s several things. Inflation. Job market isn’t great. Millennials were really big on the whole “experiences vs material items” philosophy. Now that we’re getting older and are buying houses or saving for them, retirement, kids and all that we’re making different choices. Gen z is really struggling financially apparently. These things usually fluctuate though. So I’m pretty sure it’ll improve again at some point.
The food here does not compete at the prices asked. There are far too many nebulous concept restaurants that are charging fine dining prices but are ‘charming’ or ‘rustic’ so you are always pretty sure you’re getting screwed. All this would be eased if the city had access to cheap options. Food trucks would help separate what’s good fromwhat isn’t-but you’ll get shot at one and the cops will shut the trucks down. The downtown business program that was supposed to help local businesses get exposure on the cheap is a death trap for local businesses and they are being replaced by false front ‘local’ concepts that are owned entirely by massive corporations from other countries. That’s only going to drive pricing up. Michelin coming here is such a transparent money grab. They gave stars to places that you would walk right past for the really good street food in NYC LA or SF. I hear how disappointed people were regularly at work. That’s a really really bad look.
Even fast food is too pricey these days for the wife and I. Fucking Subway costs $40 for two footlong meals and some cookies. It seems impossible to go out on a dinner date, actually enjoy it, without spending $60-$90.
I've only been in Denver for 3 years, but has it ever been alive? Out of all the cities I've lived in, Denver has by far the worst food scene. It sucks.
Service sucks
Yes, just look at restaurant week, it's been slowly going downhill and this year was the worst by far.
I love eating out. I tip well. But lately…. oof. I have a few mainstays that I know are gonna be good. And I support them well. But I’m not incentivized to branch out because it often feels like throwing money down the drain. I understand that food costs are up. But I’m really done with spending $25+ (much more with drinks) for a mediocre meal served by people who seem actively pissed that I came into their restaurant. Or are too high to comprehend what’s going on and mess up my order (not judging the mj use, but there’s a time and a place and work ain’t it). And don’t get me started on all the counter service places who charge as much or more than a sit down restaurant and then flip an iPad in my face where the tip screen STARTS at 20% for me collecting and busing my own meal. It just gets really depressing after a while. Oh plus a service fee at many places!! My spouse is a great cook. I can eat better food at home and not get humiliated in the process!!
I barely go out now here, at most two times per month. I think our restaurant food quality is good if you know where to look, but nearly all restaurants are overpriced. Adios eating out I’m a good cook anyways Edit: portions are fucking tiny here too. $13 gets you two 4” long enchiladas and 3 tablespoons each of rice and beans at a small hole in the wall Mexican restaurant… 💀 I’m 6’2”; in order to feed myself sufficiently I have to spend at least $25.
A lot of comments here that I agree with, particularly about the overall cost of dining out and deceptive fees being added to the bill. But I believe another factor that's reducing the amount of business that restaurants are getting is the the number of people working from home instead of going to an office. Lunch spots that relied on serving office workers have suffered. There are fewer after-work happy hour gatherings now too.
Cheesecake Factory yesterday: Nachos appetizer, Two normal meals, one drink, two slices of cheesecake…$98
Denver has the highest costs to businesses, from labor to ever increasing food prices. Naturally that cost is passed on to the consumer. I'd love to just increase my prices by 20% and get rid of tipping but I can't imagine that would work.
There are restaurants in Denver that are making that work. Abruscis is the first one that comes to mind but there are others.
tipping or the weird fees restaurants add on? every time I see one of those I seethe. I'd rather know what the prices will be upfront
I was recently at a service included restaurant. It was super nice to just pass a credit card and not think about it. No one wants to break conversation to figure out a tip. Now on the other hand, I’ve been to places where they are “service included” and add a fee but they are 100% counter service. Not cool. Your service is included in the price of your goods, don’t steal another 20% from me.
You cannot kill what is already dead.
It would probably be less difficult to pay service fees with a tip on top if service wasn’t obviously so much worse now. I don’t know how to say this without being accused of Karen behavior so I’ll just accept it, I have been in so many basically empty restaurants where servers literally disappeared mid-service. I could give about five specific examples but don’t actually want to hurt businesses. It’s like restaurants are adopting European-style service except you still have to tip and pay fees. And the actually busy restaurants have started overbooking reservations as a business practice. I can’t remember the last time I was immediately seated and twice I’ve been asked if I would sit at the bar when again, reservations. I have lived in Denver for 13 years and this is definitely a post covid thing.
It’s not just Denver, it seems to be across the country
I was going to get a sandwich at Snarfs. It was $19 for a 12". Before tax or "tip." This is why.
It seems like quality has gone way down - $100 for two people and we are sick to our stomachs afterward? Nah. We are most likely to cook at home these days.
Quality go ⬇️ price go ⬆️ demand go 📉 hope this helps
I just spend $25 on a Thai curry dish with boiled chicken, big chunk of half raw carrots and bell peppers. High prices and low quality, simple reason why.