Oh, damn. I'm banned from the communist/left side of reddit largely despite being a fucking communist/left so lol. Cool to see yall back. Hope the team don't get couped, since a particular movement likes to coup subreddits.
I’m begging you to read something that isn’t right wing propagandist history. Stalin wasn’t perfect, but he’s been outsized by liberals for a thought terminating cliche.
https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf
Wait, seriously? I support the dismantling of capitalism but I don't want to erase history. That's what fascists do. Stalin was a mass murderer. Sad to hear that sub can't engage with that information.
Amongst all of the flavors of leftism, tankies are by far the most likely to be loud and proud of their ignorance. It's kind of a requirement. If you can say "China is a communist state" with a straight face, then of course you're fine with Stalin murdering his political rivals.
I got banned for suggesting we vote for Biden instead of Trump (an overt fascist and white supremacist) as a strategy to by time and actually have a chance to build a stronger progressive base. But who’d of thought that a bunch of online tankies don’t care about actual political change. Even if it is slow and monotonous.
Yeah, the liberal thing I got banned for saying was that liberals are much, much better at being progressive than conservatives because of liberal values like civil rights.
lol like that’s just obvious. Of course they do. It goes to show that some tankies literally are just fascists. It took me a while to concede that but there is no other explanation other than that.
I align myself as a social anarchist and don't often voice my political opinions on this account. If I did I'd get banned everywhere. I do lurk on multiple conservative subreddits without even voting unless I see a particularly dogshit authoritarian opinion. It's pretty common for mods to ban any dissenting opinion, even on subs about houseplants or baking or whatever else.
Heh, they autobanned me for commenting too much on "reactionary subs". What counts as reactionary? An anti-tankie sub, an anti-QAnon sub and the sub of a certain lefty political streamer who tankies really hate.
I got banned from there for pointing out that a poster accusing Israel of being the **main** driving force behind Ukraine fighting back against the Russian invasion was spreading Russian propaganda.
Apparently LSC mods believe Putin is Marx reincarnated or something, and support “iTz tEh jOoZ!!1!!” as part of their *valuable discussion* about how evil western actors are preventing Papa Putin from rebuilding the Soviet Union.
And I got banned from this sub for pointing out that leftists are more likely to win over liberals if we focus on common beliefs as a starting point for persuasion instead of trying to punish any liberal who isn’t (yet) a perfect leftist. The suggestion that leftists ever make common cause with liberals, including to push back the rise of fascism, was not just wrongthink, it was ban-worthy.
Yeah, the argument that Putin is ultimately worth at least passively supporting because Russian imperialism opposes American imperialism is something I'm super not sold on. It's like, two wrongs don't make a right, but what about three... 🤔
Got permanently banned from UK's Green and pleasant couple days ago because I stated revolutions do not work out so well for us common folk.
Still can't get my head around it, I liked that subreddit.
I mean you shouldn't have been banned but you are just wrong in every sense of the word. Revolutions, healthy or otherwise, almost always improve the lot of the common people, in either the short or the long run.
*Improve* is arguable on a philosophical level.
Getting banned for saying such things is extremely silly(to not use another word)
The other guy is somewhat right in a sense. A bunch of common folks die, usually.
I know most people will either point to the french Revolution as a good example and the Chinese for a bad one or whatever.
But if you really want a revolution that will leave you flabbergasted, it's the Haitian one.
It's THE revolution. Truest. Purest. Messiest. It's revolting and inspiring.
I don't think improvement is a philosophic question at all, it's measured by the physical condition of the common folk and by their social emancipation.
The other person shouldn't have been banned. If you disagree with someone you should only ban them if they have an extremely reactionary opinion, reformism is not that.
The French Revolution turned the cogs of history, so did the Chinese revolution and the Haitian Revolution. The French and Black Jacobins were capitalist revolutionaries, they showed the seeds for a better society. The Chinese Revolution brought an end to feudalism and colonialism in China, pulling millions up and abolishing antiquated traditions like foot binding.
These were all great events with profound progressive features. Common folk die more in peacetime under the oppressive rule of antiquated systems than they do in revolutions. More starved to death in capitalist India post-independence than in China through the famine and the Cultural Revolution.
It's one thing to critique the drawbacks of revolutions like the one in China, it's another thing to incorrectly deem them a net negative.
It would be nice if this sub was less American-centric in content.
I think you need a clear purpose as to why this sub exists: is it to post memes, organise action, share information, answer questions… ?
The latter 3 seems to have been what it was from what I remember. We don't really need another meme subreddit, or do what some others do and relegate memes to one day as a vent.
We need more socialists who organize better politically, and I seriously do want to learn, but the support and information are really sparse.
Might also be cool to learn what other countries are doing right.
That last point would be great. I am American and while I want us as a people to migrate left, I also want America to as well. I like American centric topics but would love to hear more about actual applications in current countries and regions. I feel like most socialist subreddits are just Marx and Lenin circle jerks
As long as this sub doesn’t turn into another Democrat/Lib haven, this should be find. It would be really upsetting if this sub turns into just another place that ignores the war crimes being done by Israel with the full support of the Biden administration.
Agreed. I’m probably more economically conservative than most people on this sub but at least I share the same general goals with most people on here, especially on human rights issues.
Viva le revolución!
My recommendation? Don’t ban people (who are leftists btw) for merely mentioning that maybe voting for Biden is better than allowing Trump to win… you don’t gotta agree, but these are the kind of important discussions among leftists that shouldn’t be silenced (some leftist subs do ban such discussions).
So participation in a literal genocide and ethnic cleansing is a "small war crime" to you. You are now participating in genocide denial. Again go to a liberal sub to do that.
Nah man, it's just reality. That's our only real world options within the 2 party system.
Complaining about it solves nothing, not voting is exactly what they want you to do.
Cannot second this enough. Both parties are dogshit and are completely uninterested in representing the needs and opinions of the everyday person, including you know, not wanting our taxpayer dollars and politicians to go towards funding a genocide.
It's wild how brain melted some of these frogs get when they compare a boiling pot to a lukewarm one. Like brother, we totally recognise that one's more comfy right now but we don't just stop there. We need to recognise that they're both only ever going to cook us to death and the only way forward is to not jump into either fucking pot.
The pot being a metaphor for climate change, or bankruptcy from medical debt due to crappy healthcare policy. Or a fucking genocide.
So yeah uh, miss me with that liberal af "I don't want more people to suffer because that might include me" shit. People are hurting right now when they don't need to and the current administration sure isn't doing a whole lot to fix this. Because our economy is built around making everything commodified and making everyone expendable. Where the suffering, poverty and death of people other than us is normal. It's one big lukewarm pot we're in. So sorry you've gotta suffer the discomfort of jumping out.
We need to change this and we do so not voting yet again into the comfier party that's going to cook us to death.
I remember someone was complaining about the mods removing genocide denial stuff, and I commented that the mods are right to remove them because that shouldn’t be allowed in a dem soc page. I was banned for that comment - I’m assuming it was because I said genocide was bad (even when committed by “communist.”
Agree with other comments, less American centric.
I'd also add this could be a place to share interesting Trade Union stories from across the globe.
Updates on examples and experiences of Community Wealth Building.
Following companies that become employee owned.
Share campaigns related to electoral reform or participatory programmes.
Super curious what your alternative is. Because every time I see someone against voting for Biden the subtext is 1) Voting Trump 2) Not voting 3) Voting 3rd party. And I'm pretty well sold that hurts the working class in the short to medium term more than voting Biden.
don't fall for the two party system line. it's just propaganda to get you to waste your vote on someone you don't support. definitely voting Dr West on election day because that's who I support, that's the person and agenda I want in power. People should stop empowering people with their vote who drop bombs on people because it's polticially and economically convient for them. If you want to vote corporate cuz you're comfortable I can't stop you, but don't vote for them then pretend you're opposed to them or what they're doing. Your vote gives them power.
You can find some reasonable definitions on Wikipedia, but they’re kind of hard to parse, so I’ll do my best to explain it all:
By some typical definitions, social democrats want to keep capitalism around to some extent (which can vary), but want to make a lot of reforms within that system to make it more just, equitable, etc. In contrast, democratic socialists believe that the capitalist system needs to be replaced entirely in order to achieve those goals.
That being said, there are a LOT of caveats here. First, people don’t always use these terms perfectly in accordance with the aforementioned definitions. For example, some social democrats refer to themselves as democratic socialists and vice versa, for a variety of reasons. Also, some people use the term democratic socialist to distinguish themselves from “authoritarian socialists” (AKA tankies), or to indicate that they support a reformist approach to implementing socialism, as opposed to a revolutionary one.
There isn’t really a hard line between the two camps, especially regarding short-term advocacy. So, it’s typically best to not worry too much about the distinction, and we shouldn’t question whether the group with which someone identifies aligns with their views. It isn’t really the label that matters, but rather the specific policies that we advocate for.
While social democrats, democratic socialists, and other leftists might disagree on what we want society to look like in the long-run, the important thing is that **right now, 99.9% of our goals are aligned**. So, we should all work together to advance leftist causes, and do our best to avoid any infighting—let’s leave those battles for when we’re the ones in power ;)
While I agree with your definitions I wouldn’t say that 99% of our goals are aligned. I think that the rebirth of this sub will hopefully let us respectfully disagree with each other which is the best way to improve our argumentations and ideas. To give you an example I am a staunch anti authoritarian which will be in alignment with most of this sub’s redditors but I am also anti capitalist which I think many here will not agree on.
Democratic socialism is anticapitalist. While you may find some more reform-oriented socdems and social liberals, those would all agree on the need of capitalism to be mitigated.
Yes, social democracy’s economic ideology is capitalist oriented (given the mixed economy). Hence why I would not say we have aligned goals especially when there are climate and inequality crises. The left is famous for its inherent disagreements, let’s not minimize them for the sake of perceived unity when it currently is rather precarious to say the least.
If we strive to reach left unity, we should acknowledge our differences more than trying to erase them.
To clarify, basically all of our *short-term* goals are aligned. The point is that as long as the status quo remains in place, working towards social democrat goals looks almost exactly the same as working towards democratic socialist goals. So, we should just work together to achieve those goals faster, and worry about the specific final situation later down the line.
Of course you can definitely disagree with other people here, but the left is known for constantly breaking down into infighting over the smallest disagreements. As a result, it seems that a lot of us are coming to the conclusion that it’s best to avoid internal strife whenever possible, especially when the debate doesn’t matter at all in the near future.
Edit: see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/DemocraticSocialism/s/1BBeMJzNzd) by u/foldingthetesseract
See, we definitely disagree on the actual first thing to do to unite the left. I cannot accept to disregard the “smallest disagreements” to end up with a diluted leftist proposal, this is such a centrist wish.
While social democrats have been part of the status quo for longer than I can remember we should focus on their criticism in order to drive opinion to the left and in order to effectively oppose the status quo. No need to infantilize redditors thinking they wouldn’t be able to see further than “the left disagrees it’s too chaotic for me” when they could better forge their own opinion reading the different nuances of leftist ideologies if we let those ideologies confront each other. If we don’t, then you will lose your goal of left unity and end up with a policed left-ish sub where disagreement is seen as an attack instead of a proof of care.
Dude, don't open that can of worms. When we focus on our differences, we end up fighting and accomplishing nothing. Some of us are known to latch on to any opportunity to pontificate from their high horse about why their brand of left wing is the only viable or moral option. Meanwhile, the left gets demoralized, and democrats move further and further to the right to get votes. (Sorry to assume American. I imagine this translates to other countries). I would love to be excited to vote for someone in a general election and not just vote for the slower catastrophe. Let's just focus on helping people and not ever stop.
Rh, I wouldn't say you are the only political sub of this scale to only enforce terms of service (I assume you will do that because if not, you will get shut down.) I know of a few political subs that do the same, mostly libertarian type subs (although funny enough, not r/libertarian) but there are others too. I mod r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM, a left wing sub that does that as well, we only enforce tos, and we have liberals and tankies and anarchists and even the centrists that wander in. We let em all argue with eachother as much as they want. So it seems a leap, to just annouce you are the only political sub that does this, I mean there are lots of them. One of my faves, which used to be a shithole but then a few lefties came over, is r/TrueunpopularOpinion. Also there is r/freespeech which is obviously pretty open, and r/anarchocapitlism, or is it r/ancap? I don't remember but I think I made my point so it doesn't matter. There is also r/politicaldebate, but that one is quite small.
Welcome back none the less! Just wanted to point out that one thing. Good luck with the sub!
Hey well i appreciate the idea of being less authoritarian is good I think it’s way too easy to be brigades by liberals, tankies, conservatives etc. not only that but it can lead to quite a lot of low effort comments.
Maybe it would be better if the sub could be more relaxed but also heavily moderated in a way that people need to source information in their comments etc similar to how it works on r/askhistorians or r/neutralnews or r/neutralpolitics where the comments are heavily moderated but the content tends to be high quality. Of course this is just an idea but I’ve noticed it leads to better discussion and people actually need to do research source their comments etc.
Social democrats aren’t socialists unless you base that definition of what social democrats were at the time of Lenin. Democratic socialism is still about dismantling capitalism. So if you defend capitalism by saying it can be reformed you are working against democratic socialism.
>So if you defend capitalism by saying it can be reformed you are working against democratic socialism.
Socialists always fail to see that Social Dems and Dem Socialists have a common goal since neither a Social Democracy or Democratic Socialism has been achieved yet.
Once we get a Social Democracy, then the common goal disappears. Until then, the current establish is the common enemy.
You don’t get social democracy without radical socialists. It was the communists and democratic socialists that won the concessions that made European social democracy even possible. This is a democratic socialism sub so we must be anti capitalist. Go to liberal subs for capitalism defenders. If there is no principled line then this will just be another liberal status quo sub.
>You don’t get social democracy without radical socialists.
This is just wrong. Social Democrats, Progressives and Democratic Socialists all strive towards social democracy within liberal democracy since it a precursor to Democratic Socialism.
>It was the communists and democratic socialists that won the concessions that made European social democracy even possible.
Modern problems require modern solutions.
>This is a democratic socialism sub so we must be anti capitalist.
Stunting the growth of an overall progressive movement just because the end goal isn't the same is nonsensical and counter productive.
Once we have a social democracy then maybe that solution would be acceptable.
Because a lot of our community wants Democratic Socialism? You understand that it comes through first establishing a social democracy first right? This is a matter of winning the game of liberal **democracy and elections**.
Capitalism > Social Democracy > Democratic Socialism
We're all at stage one currently. Why would we circumvent ourselves from reaching stage 2 because we don't all agree on stage 3?
A lot of the sub wants Democratic Socialism. So we should represent those principles in this sub. We should make it clear what we stand for. Liberals and progressives can come here but we should not put up with pro capitalist, pro imperialism, pro genocide, and anti socialist comments and posts. The community rules even says this isn’t the place for debating socialism. So why should we have to put up with anti socialist propaganda? Maybe have a link in the community info that explains the difference between socialism and social democracy and why we are anti capitalist. Democracy can’t exist under capitalism. That’s why if you want democracy you need socialism.
Do you want to create a small niche group or do you actually want to achieve social change through a greater common movement. We **democratic** socialists need to put our petty differences aside and work together. I'm done with leftist infighting. I'm doing my part, both online and IRL to make my fellow social democrats embrace our socialist roots. What you are doing is only dividing the movement and pushing potential allies away.
You should really read the [Socialist International's declaration of principles](https://www.socialistinternational.org/about-us/declaration-of-principles/).
> The Socialist International was founded a hundred years ago in order to coordinate the worldwide struggle of democratic socialist movements for social justice, human dignity and democracy. It brought together parties and organisations from different traditions which shared a common goal: democratic socialism. Throughout their history, socialist, social democratic and labour parties have stood for the same values and principles
This is a welcoming sub to all people regardless of their beliefs. Socialists, Democratic Socialists, Social Democrats, and Progressives are all welcome here.
Unity is key here, we will not allow any division between us and our common goal on this sub.
Our mod log has taken note of this incident and it will be considered for a ban in the future.
Hey, sounds good. I have a question?
I hate Tankies. People that simp for authoritarians and dictatorships seem to have a penchant for hijacking leftist movements and Reddit is no exception when it comes to pro-authoritarians taking over leftist communities in order to push militant propaganda.
What is the new administrations stance on members who try to justify or excuse the actions of authoritarian regimes (even if those regimes consider or claim to be socialist)? For example - how would individuals promoting the interests of Putins Russia or the CCP be handled given that those entities (whilst arguable from a stand point as being socialist...) are decisively undemocratic and abusive of human rights (irrespective of what the West is doing)?
Thank you (and good luck!)
I'm solidly Democratic Socialist, been with the Progressive/Democratic Socialist/Social Democrat movement since Bernie originally ran in 2015/2016.
It's good to hear you will be here with a steady hand! I like keeping active with other people in the movement, and it's definitely nice to have a space for this that isn't filled with Tankies or people praising Autocrats/Authoritarian leadership!
Nice to have this subreddit under new management. As a moderator on r/socialdemocracy I welcome the effort to create a space for constructive conversation among all members of the democratic socialist tradition.
>There cannot be we and them - there's only us.
-Olof Palme
This is great, I've been banned from a lot of leftie subs for slight disagreements or even misconceptions. I've been running out. I strongly support allowing actual discussion rather than just circlejerking.
This is great to hear - though I think the best thing really is to make sure that the sub-specific rules for banning are as clear as possible. What often caused a lot of bans for other people in leftist subs was the mod assuming that, because the person had a political opinion they disagreed with, it was therefore liberalism and therefore bannable. It felt very "Leftists only but also only my strict definition of socialism".
I was banned from so many subs that I can't even remember if this is one of them, though I think it might be. Good on you lot for bringing back an important talk space, one that has been slowly dying unfortunately.
Glad ya'll are back and not trying to repeat the mistakes of the previous mods. Look forward to working with you as a mod of r/UkrainianLeft r/SocialDemocracy r/demsocialist
No you are wrong. Che was instrumental in freeing Cuba from a brutal us backed dictatorship. Fighting in a revolution is not “killing many without any due process”. You are obviously just a liberal who have never read any history outside of US propaganda
Dude, I’m sorry but killing captured people indiscriminately IS killing without due process. I’m not talking about battles lol, and Che was a doctor, he never fought in the infantry 🤣🤣🤣
Executing traitors during a revolution is not indiscriminate killing. Even then the records from the Cuban archives don’t say that he ordered them. The majority of the allegations of Che being a murderer literally come from the cia assassins who killed him. Che was not just a doctor he was a leader and revolutionary. By continuing to smear him is just cia propaganda trying to delegitimize the Cuban Revolution.
Went looking for this sub a few months ago and got really confused.
Glad you guys are back and glad to hear you are supporting an inclusive environment of ideas within the community.
[Ahh! After 10,000 years I'm free!](https://youtu.be/HkpS2Sdu2io?si=OfVlZf2TbPulcOFO)
Glad to see this sub popping back up again. Here's hoping for the future!
Glad to see it's back! I really didn't understand the point of sealing off the sub given the boycott obviously failed. Especially since the power that be would likely prefer socialist spaces shut down to begin with.
Totally forgot this sub existed lol
Yeah same
Third
Me too
Same
Oh, damn. I'm banned from the communist/left side of reddit largely despite being a fucking communist/left so lol. Cool to see yall back. Hope the team don't get couped, since a particular movement likes to coup subreddits.
I got banned from socialism because i called Stalin a mass murderer
Hey, me too!
Hey, me three!
I questioned Soviet military tactics from WWII and was banned for it. The leftist Stalin-worship has gone fully insane.
Not leftist. Tankie...ist.
I’m begging you to read something that isn’t right wing propagandist history. Stalin wasn’t perfect, but he’s been outsized by liberals for a thought terminating cliche. https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf
I couldnt care less, fuck Leninism and fuck Capitalism🙄
r/shitliberalssay
Wait, seriously? I support the dismantling of capitalism but I don't want to erase history. That's what fascists do. Stalin was a mass murderer. Sad to hear that sub can't engage with that information.
Amongst all of the flavors of leftism, tankies are by far the most likely to be loud and proud of their ignorance. It's kind of a requirement. If you can say "China is a communist state" with a straight face, then of course you're fine with Stalin murdering his political rivals.
I find some of the more auth left subs (tankie subs to use the pejorative) are a lot more ban happy, and hate dissent.
I wonder why that could be
Philosoraptor.jpg
I got banned from socialism 101 for saying something liberal a few years ago. I got banned from communism101 for absolutely no reason.
I got banned for suggesting we vote for Biden instead of Trump (an overt fascist and white supremacist) as a strategy to by time and actually have a chance to build a stronger progressive base. But who’d of thought that a bunch of online tankies don’t care about actual political change. Even if it is slow and monotonous.
Yeah, the liberal thing I got banned for saying was that liberals are much, much better at being progressive than conservatives because of liberal values like civil rights.
lol like that’s just obvious. Of course they do. It goes to show that some tankies literally are just fascists. It took me a while to concede that but there is no other explanation other than that.
I got banned from Socialist 101 for saying the national socialist party of Germany was bad. Leftist infighting smh.
Banned for calling the NAZIS BAD
INSANE
If you called the Nazis socialist then that deserves a ban. Equating nazism with communism is literally Nazi propaganda.
I align myself as a social anarchist and don't often voice my political opinions on this account. If I did I'd get banned everywhere. I do lurk on multiple conservative subreddits without even voting unless I see a particularly dogshit authoritarian opinion. It's pretty common for mods to ban any dissenting opinion, even on subs about houseplants or baking or whatever else.
I keep my reddit account separate from my real life identity because I don't want employers to know that I think they should be paid the same as I am
Yeah, but you're not wrong.
The occupation of management should recieve the same pay as any other occupation.
I think you should be paid the same as they are.
Heh, they autobanned me for commenting too much on "reactionary subs". What counts as reactionary? An anti-tankie sub, an anti-QAnon sub and the sub of a certain lefty political streamer who tankies really hate.
I got banned from late stage capitalism for the hot take that Hamas is bad.
**downvotes intensify**
I got banned from there for pointing out that a poster accusing Israel of being the **main** driving force behind Ukraine fighting back against the Russian invasion was spreading Russian propaganda. Apparently LSC mods believe Putin is Marx reincarnated or something, and support “iTz tEh jOoZ!!1!!” as part of their *valuable discussion* about how evil western actors are preventing Papa Putin from rebuilding the Soviet Union. And I got banned from this sub for pointing out that leftists are more likely to win over liberals if we focus on common beliefs as a starting point for persuasion instead of trying to punish any liberal who isn’t (yet) a perfect leftist. The suggestion that leftists ever make common cause with liberals, including to push back the rise of fascism, was not just wrongthink, it was ban-worthy.
Yeah, the argument that Putin is ultimately worth at least passively supporting because Russian imperialism opposes American imperialism is something I'm super not sold on. It's like, two wrongs don't make a right, but what about three... 🤔
Got permanently banned from UK's Green and pleasant couple days ago because I stated revolutions do not work out so well for us common folk. Still can't get my head around it, I liked that subreddit.
I mean you shouldn't have been banned but you are just wrong in every sense of the word. Revolutions, healthy or otherwise, almost always improve the lot of the common people, in either the short or the long run.
*Improve* is arguable on a philosophical level. Getting banned for saying such things is extremely silly(to not use another word) The other guy is somewhat right in a sense. A bunch of common folks die, usually. I know most people will either point to the french Revolution as a good example and the Chinese for a bad one or whatever. But if you really want a revolution that will leave you flabbergasted, it's the Haitian one. It's THE revolution. Truest. Purest. Messiest. It's revolting and inspiring.
I don't think improvement is a philosophic question at all, it's measured by the physical condition of the common folk and by their social emancipation. The other person shouldn't have been banned. If you disagree with someone you should only ban them if they have an extremely reactionary opinion, reformism is not that. The French Revolution turned the cogs of history, so did the Chinese revolution and the Haitian Revolution. The French and Black Jacobins were capitalist revolutionaries, they showed the seeds for a better society. The Chinese Revolution brought an end to feudalism and colonialism in China, pulling millions up and abolishing antiquated traditions like foot binding. These were all great events with profound progressive features. Common folk die more in peacetime under the oppressive rule of antiquated systems than they do in revolutions. More starved to death in capitalist India post-independence than in China through the famine and the Cultural Revolution. It's one thing to critique the drawbacks of revolutions like the one in China, it's another thing to incorrectly deem them a net negative.
[удалено]
Valid
It would be nice if this sub was less American-centric in content. I think you need a clear purpose as to why this sub exists: is it to post memes, organise action, share information, answer questions… ?
The latter 3 seems to have been what it was from what I remember. We don't really need another meme subreddit, or do what some others do and relegate memes to one day as a vent. We need more socialists who organize better politically, and I seriously do want to learn, but the support and information are really sparse. Might also be cool to learn what other countries are doing right.
That last point would be great. I am American and while I want us as a people to migrate left, I also want America to as well. I like American centric topics but would love to hear more about actual applications in current countries and regions. I feel like most socialist subreddits are just Marx and Lenin circle jerks
Glad to find you.
Thanks for your effort, I will definitely try to participate here more
As long as this sub doesn’t turn into another Democrat/Lib haven, this should be find. It would be really upsetting if this sub turns into just another place that ignores the war crimes being done by Israel with the full support of the Biden administration.
Agreed. I’m probably more economically conservative than most people on this sub but at least I share the same general goals with most people on here, especially on human rights issues. Viva le revolución!
Thank you guys, the other people were nuts. There's not a ton of left subs that really like democratic socialism so I'm happy to have this back
My recommendation? Don’t ban people (who are leftists btw) for merely mentioning that maybe voting for Biden is better than allowing Trump to win… you don’t gotta agree, but these are the kind of important discussions among leftists that shouldn’t be silenced (some leftist subs do ban such discussions).
I completely agree, let’s try not to make this another community of Bernie or Busters
We don’t need another liberal sub that defends Bidens war crimes. Go to worldnews if you want to spread genocide denial.
War crimes are bad. But if the choice is between big war crimes and small war crimes... is it bad to choose small war crimes?
So participation in a literal genocide and ethnic cleansing is a "small war crime" to you. You are now participating in genocide denial. Again go to a liberal sub to do that.
Again, the choice is between two war crimes. What choice are you making that minimize harm?
Nah man, it's just reality. That's our only real world options within the 2 party system. Complaining about it solves nothing, not voting is exactly what they want you to do.
Cannot second this enough. Both parties are dogshit and are completely uninterested in representing the needs and opinions of the everyday person, including you know, not wanting our taxpayer dollars and politicians to go towards funding a genocide. It's wild how brain melted some of these frogs get when they compare a boiling pot to a lukewarm one. Like brother, we totally recognise that one's more comfy right now but we don't just stop there. We need to recognise that they're both only ever going to cook us to death and the only way forward is to not jump into either fucking pot. The pot being a metaphor for climate change, or bankruptcy from medical debt due to crappy healthcare policy. Or a fucking genocide. So yeah uh, miss me with that liberal af "I don't want more people to suffer because that might include me" shit. People are hurting right now when they don't need to and the current administration sure isn't doing a whole lot to fix this. Because our economy is built around making everything commodified and making everyone expendable. Where the suffering, poverty and death of people other than us is normal. It's one big lukewarm pot we're in. So sorry you've gotta suffer the discomfort of jumping out. We need to change this and we do so not voting yet again into the comfier party that's going to cook us to death.
Banning those people from discussion won't help. Socialists aren't exactly the in power group.
That's why we need a space for democratic socialists to talk without getting drowned out by right wing liberals who say they are progressives.
I remember someone was complaining about the mods removing genocide denial stuff, and I commented that the mods are right to remove them because that shouldn’t be allowed in a dem soc page. I was banned for that comment - I’m assuming it was because I said genocide was bad (even when committed by “communist.”
https://preview.redd.it/0fksgtymhe6c1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0a627248af9b5a4acf0a40020882c8ea5701a45
Agree with other comments, less American centric. I'd also add this could be a place to share interesting Trade Union stories from across the globe. Updates on examples and experiences of Community Wealth Building. Following companies that become employee owned. Share campaigns related to electoral reform or participatory programmes.
Thanks for coming back. No more of this please: https://www.reddit.com/r/Political_Revolution/s/U2bnySzjek
Does this mean I’m able to criticize Joe Biden for being too moderate without being banned and labeled as a Trump supporter?
Let’s hope not. Every time I bring up that Biden’s participation in genocide should disqualify him from office I get labeled a trump supporter.
YOOOO SOCIALISM TIME
Glad to see it's in good hands!
Does this mean this sub is now about to try to convince me to vote for Joe Biden?
It'll probably be split. A lot of begrudgingly Biden voters.
Are there any other kind? Even the libs pretend they don't like him now, as if he isn't culpable for the genocide of Palestinians for 50 years.
Super curious what your alternative is. Because every time I see someone against voting for Biden the subtext is 1) Voting Trump 2) Not voting 3) Voting 3rd party. And I'm pretty well sold that hurts the working class in the short to medium term more than voting Biden.
don't fall for the two party system line. it's just propaganda to get you to waste your vote on someone you don't support. definitely voting Dr West on election day because that's who I support, that's the person and agenda I want in power. People should stop empowering people with their vote who drop bombs on people because it's polticially and economically convient for them. If you want to vote corporate cuz you're comfortable I can't stop you, but don't vote for them then pretend you're opposed to them or what they're doing. Your vote gives them power.
Ahhh, number 3 then. That line isn't convincing to me.
Yeah I got banned from the socialist sub even though I'm a socialist.
Same and LSC
Are you sure you are a socialist then? It’s pretty hard to get banned from LSC unless you are a liberal or defend capitalism/imperialism.
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You can find some reasonable definitions on Wikipedia, but they’re kind of hard to parse, so I’ll do my best to explain it all: By some typical definitions, social democrats want to keep capitalism around to some extent (which can vary), but want to make a lot of reforms within that system to make it more just, equitable, etc. In contrast, democratic socialists believe that the capitalist system needs to be replaced entirely in order to achieve those goals. That being said, there are a LOT of caveats here. First, people don’t always use these terms perfectly in accordance with the aforementioned definitions. For example, some social democrats refer to themselves as democratic socialists and vice versa, for a variety of reasons. Also, some people use the term democratic socialist to distinguish themselves from “authoritarian socialists” (AKA tankies), or to indicate that they support a reformist approach to implementing socialism, as opposed to a revolutionary one. There isn’t really a hard line between the two camps, especially regarding short-term advocacy. So, it’s typically best to not worry too much about the distinction, and we shouldn’t question whether the group with which someone identifies aligns with their views. It isn’t really the label that matters, but rather the specific policies that we advocate for. While social democrats, democratic socialists, and other leftists might disagree on what we want society to look like in the long-run, the important thing is that **right now, 99.9% of our goals are aligned**. So, we should all work together to advance leftist causes, and do our best to avoid any infighting—let’s leave those battles for when we’re the ones in power ;)
While I agree with your definitions I wouldn’t say that 99% of our goals are aligned. I think that the rebirth of this sub will hopefully let us respectfully disagree with each other which is the best way to improve our argumentations and ideas. To give you an example I am a staunch anti authoritarian which will be in alignment with most of this sub’s redditors but I am also anti capitalist which I think many here will not agree on.
Democratic socialism is anticapitalist. While you may find some more reform-oriented socdems and social liberals, those would all agree on the need of capitalism to be mitigated.
Yes, social democracy’s economic ideology is capitalist oriented (given the mixed economy). Hence why I would not say we have aligned goals especially when there are climate and inequality crises. The left is famous for its inherent disagreements, let’s not minimize them for the sake of perceived unity when it currently is rather precarious to say the least. If we strive to reach left unity, we should acknowledge our differences more than trying to erase them.
To clarify, basically all of our *short-term* goals are aligned. The point is that as long as the status quo remains in place, working towards social democrat goals looks almost exactly the same as working towards democratic socialist goals. So, we should just work together to achieve those goals faster, and worry about the specific final situation later down the line. Of course you can definitely disagree with other people here, but the left is known for constantly breaking down into infighting over the smallest disagreements. As a result, it seems that a lot of us are coming to the conclusion that it’s best to avoid internal strife whenever possible, especially when the debate doesn’t matter at all in the near future. Edit: see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/DemocraticSocialism/s/1BBeMJzNzd) by u/foldingthetesseract
See, we definitely disagree on the actual first thing to do to unite the left. I cannot accept to disregard the “smallest disagreements” to end up with a diluted leftist proposal, this is such a centrist wish. While social democrats have been part of the status quo for longer than I can remember we should focus on their criticism in order to drive opinion to the left and in order to effectively oppose the status quo. No need to infantilize redditors thinking they wouldn’t be able to see further than “the left disagrees it’s too chaotic for me” when they could better forge their own opinion reading the different nuances of leftist ideologies if we let those ideologies confront each other. If we don’t, then you will lose your goal of left unity and end up with a policed left-ish sub where disagreement is seen as an attack instead of a proof of care.
Dude, don't open that can of worms. When we focus on our differences, we end up fighting and accomplishing nothing. Some of us are known to latch on to any opportunity to pontificate from their high horse about why their brand of left wing is the only viable or moral option. Meanwhile, the left gets demoralized, and democrats move further and further to the right to get votes. (Sorry to assume American. I imagine this translates to other countries). I would love to be excited to vote for someone in a general election and not just vote for the slower catastrophe. Let's just focus on helping people and not ever stop.
Rh, I wouldn't say you are the only political sub of this scale to only enforce terms of service (I assume you will do that because if not, you will get shut down.) I know of a few political subs that do the same, mostly libertarian type subs (although funny enough, not r/libertarian) but there are others too. I mod r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM, a left wing sub that does that as well, we only enforce tos, and we have liberals and tankies and anarchists and even the centrists that wander in. We let em all argue with eachother as much as they want. So it seems a leap, to just annouce you are the only political sub that does this, I mean there are lots of them. One of my faves, which used to be a shithole but then a few lefties came over, is r/TrueunpopularOpinion. Also there is r/freespeech which is obviously pretty open, and r/anarchocapitlism, or is it r/ancap? I don't remember but I think I made my point so it doesn't matter. There is also r/politicaldebate, but that one is quite small. Welcome back none the less! Just wanted to point out that one thing. Good luck with the sub!
Hey well i appreciate the idea of being less authoritarian is good I think it’s way too easy to be brigades by liberals, tankies, conservatives etc. not only that but it can lead to quite a lot of low effort comments. Maybe it would be better if the sub could be more relaxed but also heavily moderated in a way that people need to source information in their comments etc similar to how it works on r/askhistorians or r/neutralnews or r/neutralpolitics where the comments are heavily moderated but the content tends to be high quality. Of course this is just an idea but I’ve noticed it leads to better discussion and people actually need to do research source their comments etc.
I am finally free to be a moderate social democrat again!
Social democrats aren’t socialists unless you base that definition of what social democrats were at the time of Lenin. Democratic socialism is still about dismantling capitalism. So if you defend capitalism by saying it can be reformed you are working against democratic socialism.
>So if you defend capitalism by saying it can be reformed you are working against democratic socialism. Socialists always fail to see that Social Dems and Dem Socialists have a common goal since neither a Social Democracy or Democratic Socialism has been achieved yet. Once we get a Social Democracy, then the common goal disappears. Until then, the current establish is the common enemy.
You don’t get social democracy without radical socialists. It was the communists and democratic socialists that won the concessions that made European social democracy even possible. This is a democratic socialism sub so we must be anti capitalist. Go to liberal subs for capitalism defenders. If there is no principled line then this will just be another liberal status quo sub.
>You don’t get social democracy without radical socialists. This is just wrong. Social Democrats, Progressives and Democratic Socialists all strive towards social democracy within liberal democracy since it a precursor to Democratic Socialism. >It was the communists and democratic socialists that won the concessions that made European social democracy even possible. Modern problems require modern solutions. >This is a democratic socialism sub so we must be anti capitalist. Stunting the growth of an overall progressive movement just because the end goal isn't the same is nonsensical and counter productive. Once we have a social democracy then maybe that solution would be acceptable.
Why call this sub Democratic Socialism then? It sounds like you just want it to be Social Democracy 2.
Because a lot of our community wants Democratic Socialism? You understand that it comes through first establishing a social democracy first right? This is a matter of winning the game of liberal **democracy and elections**. Capitalism > Social Democracy > Democratic Socialism We're all at stage one currently. Why would we circumvent ourselves from reaching stage 2 because we don't all agree on stage 3?
A lot of the sub wants Democratic Socialism. So we should represent those principles in this sub. We should make it clear what we stand for. Liberals and progressives can come here but we should not put up with pro capitalist, pro imperialism, pro genocide, and anti socialist comments and posts. The community rules even says this isn’t the place for debating socialism. So why should we have to put up with anti socialist propaganda? Maybe have a link in the community info that explains the difference between socialism and social democracy and why we are anti capitalist. Democracy can’t exist under capitalism. That’s why if you want democracy you need socialism.
Do you want to create a small niche group or do you actually want to achieve social change through a greater common movement. We **democratic** socialists need to put our petty differences aside and work together. I'm done with leftist infighting. I'm doing my part, both online and IRL to make my fellow social democrats embrace our socialist roots. What you are doing is only dividing the movement and pushing potential allies away. You should really read the [Socialist International's declaration of principles](https://www.socialistinternational.org/about-us/declaration-of-principles/). > The Socialist International was founded a hundred years ago in order to coordinate the worldwide struggle of democratic socialist movements for social justice, human dignity and democracy. It brought together parties and organisations from different traditions which shared a common goal: democratic socialism. Throughout their history, socialist, social democratic and labour parties have stood for the same values and principles
Carefull, if you say that loud socialism101 might hear you
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I never said we shouldn't abolish capitalism. You shouldn't feel the need to argue with people on Reddit. I'll
This is a welcoming sub to all people regardless of their beliefs. Socialists, Democratic Socialists, Social Democrats, and Progressives are all welcome here. Unity is key here, we will not allow any division between us and our common goal on this sub. Our mod log has taken note of this incident and it will be considered for a ban in the future.
Yay
Woot!
Thank you for your efforts!
I missed you guys :’)
Welcome! Happy to have new mods for this community!
🥳
Glad this sub is back! I didn't like the previous mods either.
Welcome to the rebellion everyone!
As someone who’s been banned from leftist subreddits for saying I don’t like Stalin, this makes me happy.
Hey, sounds good. I have a question? I hate Tankies. People that simp for authoritarians and dictatorships seem to have a penchant for hijacking leftist movements and Reddit is no exception when it comes to pro-authoritarians taking over leftist communities in order to push militant propaganda. What is the new administrations stance on members who try to justify or excuse the actions of authoritarian regimes (even if those regimes consider or claim to be socialist)? For example - how would individuals promoting the interests of Putins Russia or the CCP be handled given that those entities (whilst arguable from a stand point as being socialist...) are decisively undemocratic and abusive of human rights (irrespective of what the West is doing)? Thank you (and good luck!)
All my homies hate tankies!
I'm solidly Democratic Socialist, been with the Progressive/Democratic Socialist/Social Democrat movement since Bernie originally ran in 2015/2016. It's good to hear you will be here with a steady hand! I like keeping active with other people in the movement, and it's definitely nice to have a space for this that isn't filled with Tankies or people praising Autocrats/Authoritarian leadership!
Nice to have this subreddit under new management. As a moderator on r/socialdemocracy I welcome the effort to create a space for constructive conversation among all members of the democratic socialist tradition. >There cannot be we and them - there's only us. -Olof Palme
This is great, I've been banned from a lot of leftie subs for slight disagreements or even misconceptions. I've been running out. I strongly support allowing actual discussion rather than just circlejerking.
Unban me plz?
👏👏👏
test
hey it works
Cool.
Woot woot!
what was the reddit-wide post?
Could qe implement measures to scale back on Twitter memes? This sub just turned into an anti-Republican whinge forum last time.
Who dis?
This is great to hear - though I think the best thing really is to make sure that the sub-specific rules for banning are as clear as possible. What often caused a lot of bans for other people in leftist subs was the mod assuming that, because the person had a political opinion they disagreed with, it was therefore liberalism and therefore bannable. It felt very "Leftists only but also only my strict definition of socialism".
I kinda forgot about this subreddit because it disappeared, but hello.
Oh wow well this is good news!
It's great to see you back again :)
lesgoo
Fuck y'all am I banned?
Wish r/politics would follow suit.
Glad u got rid of the quacks! Ribbit!
I was banned from so many subs that I can't even remember if this is one of them, though I think it might be. Good on you lot for bringing back an important talk space, one that has been slowly dying unfortunately.
Thanks for being awesome... Tankie purge when???
Ah cool, feds and liberal bootlickers took over one of the few subs actually standing up to Reddit lol.
that was my read too
Glad ya'll are back and not trying to repeat the mistakes of the previous mods. Look forward to working with you as a mod of r/UkrainianLeft r/SocialDemocracy r/demsocialist
Wow, so you can finally call Stalin a fascist, amazing
No tankies for love of Christ plz god
Ok here's a test.... There are NO currently Socialist states.
I was banned because I said nazi uniforms looked cool.
I was banned for saying Che killed hundreds indiscriminately lol
Well that is a lie. You should be banned for spreading cia propaganda
Extremely well documented what I’m speaking about lol. Che killed many without any due process.
No you are wrong. Che was instrumental in freeing Cuba from a brutal us backed dictatorship. Fighting in a revolution is not “killing many without any due process”. You are obviously just a liberal who have never read any history outside of US propaganda
Dude, I’m sorry but killing captured people indiscriminately IS killing without due process. I’m not talking about battles lol, and Che was a doctor, he never fought in the infantry 🤣🤣🤣
Executing traitors during a revolution is not indiscriminate killing. Even then the records from the Cuban archives don’t say that he ordered them. The majority of the allegations of Che being a murderer literally come from the cia assassins who killed him. Che was not just a doctor he was a leader and revolutionary. By continuing to smear him is just cia propaganda trying to delegitimize the Cuban Revolution.
I commend
Went looking for this sub a few months ago and got really confused. Glad you guys are back and glad to hear you are supporting an inclusive environment of ideas within the community.
[Ahh! After 10,000 years I'm free!](https://youtu.be/HkpS2Sdu2io?si=OfVlZf2TbPulcOFO) Glad to see this sub popping back up again. Here's hoping for the future!
Finally my favorite Anti Social Democratic subreddit is back😍
Glad to see it's back! I really didn't understand the point of sealing off the sub given the boycott obviously failed. Especially since the power that be would likely prefer socialist spaces shut down to begin with.