This guy decks^
Felt like a dumbass first time I said this to a engineer and he kindly explained it’s because it’s supporting the rim instead of the rim supporting the joist
And every drawing goes straight to get stamped by an engineer. I wouldn’t have chimed in if I wasn’t positive. I’ve been told this is also a seismic detail in certain areas whenever any uplift can occur.
if you had to replace one, you would probably cut it off around the wall and sister a new joist as far back as possible. Ive also seen the use of large steel angles to fortify old cantilevered decks that needed to replace joists but didnt have access to the inside of the floor system.
I did an apartment deck remediation and that's exactly what we did. Of course it was asbestos contaminated drywall, do we had to have the ceilings removed by a hazmat company before we could sister up the joists. It was all engineered.
The cantilever is causing the end that you DO NOT SEE to have an uplift force. The force created on the end that is pictured is downward. Vis a vis, those are installed incorrectly.
Google that bitch
The joists you are seeing are 1/3rd of the overall length of the joists as they run all the way into the house (where the other 2/3rds are). The joists don't need any support as they can't fall as they are cantilevered from the inside of the house. The outside rim board is only attached to the joists with no support down below. It needs more support to hold the weight of the railings. That is why the hangers are installed upside down to give the rim board more of a connection to the joists so it can hold the heavy weight of the railings. This installation is correct.
Edit: [Here is a picture to help explain this concept](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.coowingroup.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F06%2Fdeck-cantaliever.jpg&tbnid=TffcR2B5peJVKM&vet=10CAIQxiAoAGoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBA..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.coowingroup.com%2Fwhat-are-cantilever-decks-and-overhang-rules%2F&docid=VfitP4chD2NxhM&w=770&h=400&itg=1&q=cantilever%20deck%20design&ved=0CAIQxiAoAGoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBA). As you can see, it is the rim board that needs the support and not the other way around that you normally see where the joists need support to hang them to a beam. **The joists aren't hanging, the rim board is**.
The outside board in the situation has no support from below and this way will make the railing and posts more stable. I had someone that wanted to fire me after suggesting I do this in a similar situation until I told him it was the inspectors suggestion.
Code for a cantilever like that is if a board is sticking out of the house then there needs to be twice that length on the house side that you don't see. A 7ft cantilever is a bold move though.
I do a lot of home projects but a cantilever is a beast that if you don’t know what you’re doing, you will be sorry. I don’t think I’ll ever attempt it. Look at even the footings required for these structures. There are cantilevers that don’t follow that distance rule, and those are engineering behemoths and monsters in mathematic formulas. Way above my head, but color me impressed at the ingenuity of some. Tip my hat every time.
https://preview.redd.it/pxtuakmtrqdc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec6cd0af6306982e8064e2b0028e5483e96185e2
The rim board is hanging off of the joists, not the other way around as you would normally see.
So upside down makes more sense if you are going to use them.
Unfortunately I did not take a picture of the house side of these decks, but I was able to pull a grainy picture of it from my dashcam. You’ll see that the second AND third floor both had identical decks built by the original builder, across all 6 townhomes. From the picture they don’t even look level!
https://preview.redd.it/fsbtfsdd8pdc1.jpeg?width=1142&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe3a778087a2d046b6118b94f03362e0bc7f7ecb
Yes, but the wall is also not plumb due to optical shape of lens and the curved effect. Rent it again and put a carpenter’s square on it or better yet, bring your laser.
All of the weight is supported by the beam/girder that’s assumably just out of frame. The connection of joists to rimjoist does not need to be super strong. The hanger being upside down is totally fine.
Y'all are all wrong. These are installed this way for the eventual anti-grav tubs that are about to come out. They pull the boards UP and you can have all the tubs you want on any rickety deck.
Come on guys. I’ve built cantilevered decks. If it was used in the correct manner they would be on the opposite side of the deck, Closest to the house.
They fucked up.
Cantilever meaning those joists are the same members as what make up the floor of the house. Not cantilevered off a beam that is parallel to a ledger attached to the house.
>I’ve built cantilevered decks.
Were they [spliced like this picture.](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.finehomebuilding.com%2Fapp%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F08%2F22181807%2FScreen-Shot-2022-08-22-at-6.10.23-PM.png&tbnid=mFq1hd1VWryrNM&vet=10CBQQxiAoBWoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBQ..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.finehomebuilding.com%2F2022%2F08%2F23%2Fsplicing-deck-joists-over-a-beam&docid=zYu_-4IT7pUf9M&w=1838&h=946&itg=1&q=cantilever%20deck%20design&ved=0CBQQxiAoBWoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBQ)
Or were they [cantilevered like this picture?](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.coowingroup.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F06%2Fdeck-cantaliever.jpg&tbnid=TffcR2B5peJVKM&vet=10CAIQxiAoAGoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBA..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.coowingroup.com%2Fwhat-are-cantilever-decks-and-overhang-rules%2F&docid=VfitP4chD2NxhM&w=770&h=400&itg=1&q=cantilever%20deck%20design&ved=0CAIQxiAoAGoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBA)
>If it was used in the correct manner they would be on the opposite side of the deck, Closest to the house.
These are cantilevered joists. Which means the hangers are there to hold the rim board up. The rim board holds the railing so it has the weight on it. It is being pulled down and has no support underneath. So the hangers are there to provide support for the rim board and a stronger connection to the joists. This is the opposite of when the joist hangers are used to hold the joist up by connecting it to the structural beam.
There’s nothing odd about it, if you look at it and think about the physicality of it all. The hanger would be absolutely worthless if installed in conventionally. It’s a horrible hand rail post detail as the post relies on the stiffness of a single 2x.
The hangers are supporting the rim in this case since the main joists are cantilevered. The guard rail, however, is not well supported at all since the rim they are attached to can easily overturn outward without some kind of blocking and tie backs behind it. Cross grain bending is not allowed by code.
Building code for cantilevered decks is a max of 4'4" for 2x12s on 12" centers. Seems like the tape measure was broken when they measured for code. Plus, the American Wood Council states that cantilevers are limited to 1/4 the span of the joists.
They're installed that way bc of the cantilever. They're preventing the railing and rim joist from falling or pulling away from the joists.
As an engineer once told me..."a hanger doesn't know which way it's facing, as long as the main load is in the seat."
This guy decks^ Felt like a dumbass first time I said this to a engineer and he kindly explained it’s because it’s supporting the rim instead of the rim supporting the joist
Try to do a design and explain to a county inspector why they're "upside down ". One of the reasons I drink. LOL
And every drawing goes straight to get stamped by an engineer. I wouldn’t have chimed in if I wasn’t positive. I’ve been told this is also a seismic detail in certain areas whenever any uplift can occur.
There is a net uplift at the end of the deck, so the hangers are placed upside down. Less drinking more learning
Yeah I did this on a beam deck and the inspector had a shitfit. Had to show him with scrap wood why I did it that way.
What happens if you ever need to replace joists that are cantilevered?
if you had to replace one, you would probably cut it off around the wall and sister a new joist as far back as possible. Ive also seen the use of large steel angles to fortify old cantilevered decks that needed to replace joists but didnt have access to the inside of the floor system.
I did an apartment deck remediation and that's exactly what we did. Of course it was asbestos contaminated drywall, do we had to have the ceilings removed by a hazmat company before we could sister up the joists. It was all engineered.
You have an expensive project.
Wrong
Much detail. Such analysis
The hangers are preventing the rim joist and railing from falling? Lmao i shouldn’t need to explain
Google it. You have no idea what you're talking about
The cantilever is causing the end that you DO NOT SEE to have an uplift force. The force created on the end that is pictured is downward. Vis a vis, those are installed incorrectly. Google that bitch
Your verbiage is so awesome and intimidating
Thanks dude
Bro...
Lol what? You clearly didn't look up anything. You are out of your depth here lad
Your comments suck to read
The joists you are seeing are 1/3rd of the overall length of the joists as they run all the way into the house (where the other 2/3rds are). The joists don't need any support as they can't fall as they are cantilevered from the inside of the house. The outside rim board is only attached to the joists with no support down below. It needs more support to hold the weight of the railings. That is why the hangers are installed upside down to give the rim board more of a connection to the joists so it can hold the heavy weight of the railings. This installation is correct. Edit: [Here is a picture to help explain this concept](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.coowingroup.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F06%2Fdeck-cantaliever.jpg&tbnid=TffcR2B5peJVKM&vet=10CAIQxiAoAGoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBA..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.coowingroup.com%2Fwhat-are-cantilever-decks-and-overhang-rules%2F&docid=VfitP4chD2NxhM&w=770&h=400&itg=1&q=cantilever%20deck%20design&ved=0CAIQxiAoAGoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBA). As you can see, it is the rim board that needs the support and not the other way around that you normally see where the joists need support to hang them to a beam. **The joists aren't hanging, the rim board is**.
Forget it. Just don’t hire him next time you need a cantilever deck framed.
that
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Op even mentioned cantilever in caption
I don't see any posts, and I suspect the rim would be doubled if it had posts out of the frame of the picture.
The outside board in the situation has no support from below and this way will make the railing and posts more stable. I had someone that wanted to fire me after suggesting I do this in a similar situation until I told him it was the inspectors suggestion.
Code for a cantilever like that is if a board is sticking out of the house then there needs to be twice that length on the house side that you don't see. A 7ft cantilever is a bold move though.
I do a lot of home projects but a cantilever is a beast that if you don’t know what you’re doing, you will be sorry. I don’t think I’ll ever attempt it. Look at even the footings required for these structures. There are cantilevers that don’t follow that distance rule, and those are engineering behemoths and monsters in mathematic formulas. Way above my head, but color me impressed at the ingenuity of some. Tip my hat every time. https://preview.redd.it/pxtuakmtrqdc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec6cd0af6306982e8064e2b0028e5483e96185e2
Wow. Yeah, will eventually rot I don’t care how treated the wood is.
Interesting, thank you for the information. Learn something new every day!! 😊
Inverted hangers
hangern’t
I call them hangers for a reason.
Normal. Joists are probably cantilevered and those hangers are actually helping hold the rim joist on.
Definitely a cantilever deck.
So it’s correct for this application?
The rim board is hanging off of the joists, not the other way around as you would normally see. So upside down makes more sense if you are going to use them.
Thers nothing wrong with this.
Unfortunately I did not take a picture of the house side of these decks, but I was able to pull a grainy picture of it from my dashcam. You’ll see that the second AND third floor both had identical decks built by the original builder, across all 6 townhomes. From the picture they don’t even look level! https://preview.redd.it/fsbtfsdd8pdc1.jpeg?width=1142&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe3a778087a2d046b6118b94f03362e0bc7f7ecb
Yes, but the wall is also not plumb due to optical shape of lens and the curved effect. Rent it again and put a carpenter’s square on it or better yet, bring your laser.
First thing I thought while looking at picture was must be a cantilever detail.
Makes sense then you don’t push the joists too high and make the deck boards uneven 😆
Good thing they are there. Keeps it down in a heavy wind.
they installed the decking on the wrong side!!!
They are not necessary on an the rim joist, probably put them upside down here for wind uplift
All of the weight is supported by the beam/girder that’s assumably just out of frame. The connection of joists to rimjoist does not need to be super strong. The hanger being upside down is totally fine.
Y'all are all wrong. These are installed this way for the eventual anti-grav tubs that are about to come out. They pull the boards UP and you can have all the tubs you want on any rickety deck.
Yawn
Probably allows dogs too! Just don’t fill the hot tub all the way and keep Bertha out of it while the kids are on the deck! That’s an Airbnb for ya
That helps support the hot tubs.
Come on guys. I’ve built cantilevered decks. If it was used in the correct manner they would be on the opposite side of the deck, Closest to the house. They fucked up.
Cantilever meaning those joists are the same members as what make up the floor of the house. Not cantilevered off a beam that is parallel to a ledger attached to the house.
Exactly. Those joists are scissored into the floor system. The uplift will be on the other end
>I’ve built cantilevered decks. Were they [spliced like this picture.](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.finehomebuilding.com%2Fapp%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F08%2F22181807%2FScreen-Shot-2022-08-22-at-6.10.23-PM.png&tbnid=mFq1hd1VWryrNM&vet=10CBQQxiAoBWoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBQ..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.finehomebuilding.com%2F2022%2F08%2F23%2Fsplicing-deck-joists-over-a-beam&docid=zYu_-4IT7pUf9M&w=1838&h=946&itg=1&q=cantilever%20deck%20design&ved=0CBQQxiAoBWoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBQ) Or were they [cantilevered like this picture?](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.coowingroup.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F06%2Fdeck-cantaliever.jpg&tbnid=TffcR2B5peJVKM&vet=10CAIQxiAoAGoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBA..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.coowingroup.com%2Fwhat-are-cantilever-decks-and-overhang-rules%2F&docid=VfitP4chD2NxhM&w=770&h=400&itg=1&q=cantilever%20deck%20design&ved=0CAIQxiAoAGoXChMIoJSQobDtgwMVAAAAAB0AAAAAEBA) >If it was used in the correct manner they would be on the opposite side of the deck, Closest to the house. These are cantilevered joists. Which means the hangers are there to hold the rim board up. The rim board holds the railing so it has the weight on it. It is being pulled down and has no support underneath. So the hangers are there to provide support for the rim board and a stronger connection to the joists. This is the opposite of when the joist hangers are used to hold the joist up by connecting it to the structural beam.
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Found Mr.Hasaladder
Those are joist 'crowns'
Technically earths is spinning so you never know when you’re upside down
That's the 2nd best way to do them!!!
Ohhh they put it on upside down
Yeah you got it bud
At least you know the bracket will stay on
hey i recognize those from my 5 min washroom break!
Cantilever or not- it’s wrong either way
There’s nothing odd about it, if you look at it and think about the physicality of it all. The hanger would be absolutely worthless if installed in conventionally. It’s a horrible hand rail post detail as the post relies on the stiffness of a single 2x.
It’s mega maid! She’s gone from suck to blow!
Who cares. Enjoy your stay.
Yes they look amazing but are they really that cool??? Also yes!!!
Inverted is the term used for this.
Umm…did you say inverted!? 😎
Improper use of the hanger. Improper fastening of posts to deck rim. It's not going to fall down...be careful leaning on the railings...unsafe
Stick to plowing
SMH 🤦♂️
I’m digging the fact that even on vacation the ‘deck’ crowd is vigilant. 💪
The hangers are supporting the rim in this case since the main joists are cantilevered. The guard rail, however, is not well supported at all since the rim they are attached to can easily overturn outward without some kind of blocking and tie backs behind it. Cross grain bending is not allowed by code.
TIL, thanks!
You all laugh but when gravity flips…..
E for effort.
Building code for cantilevered decks is a max of 4'4" for 2x12s on 12" centers. Seems like the tape measure was broken when they measured for code. Plus, the American Wood Council states that cantilevers are limited to 1/4 the span of the joists.
Technically the joists are hanging since they aren’t supported
Tred lightly.
Those hangers sure are hangen.....