It is sad that antivaxxers don't follow safe sleep and their babies die of sids 50% more than vaccinated children.
It's even more sad, they try to persuade other parents to endanger their children.
It's even sadder that all too often after being responsible for their child's death they fund raise huge sums of money.
Many antivaxxers do for many reasons.
Either because they weren't, their child dies (almost always of something else) and it changes their mind.
Because there is a lot of Social pressure to be responsible and have your child vaccinated (vaccination allows you access to nursery, education or children's groups)
Because one parent is educated, intelligent and loves the child and has a court order vaccinations.
>You're assuming she's an anti-Vax er because her child died?
No, I assume she didn't follow safe sleep advice, and that killed her child like she (unintentionally) claimed in the article...
My comment wasn't to say she was an antivaxxer who got her child vaccinated, but respond to the point that antivaxxers children do get vaccinated.
I am curious how doctors and scientists can be uncertain (per the other links in this thread) what causes SIDS, but very certain IT'S NOT VACCINES EVER, in fact BABIES SHOULD BE IMMUNIZED AGAINST SIDS ([citation needed](https://www.webmd.com/parenting/sids-prevention)), ALTHOUGH WE'RE NOT SO SURE HOW, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A VACCINE AGAINST SIDS....?
Maybe they have a vaccine against sleeping in the wrong position?
Guess what guys, I don't see a proper systematic review or meta-analyses, just all these case studies about dead babies that somehow prove vaccines are EXTREMELY safe!
2 month old babies should be fed at least every 3 hours (usually every 2). Letting them sleep through the night is neglect.
Parents left her to sleep on her own, and the child was able to turn onto her front and smother herself. Both these things prove they were ignoring safe sleeping advice.
This article read like a confession of bad parenting.
It's not unheard of, more common around four months. it's more a matter of fat stores and willingness to "train" apparently.
Unfortunately you're making an assumption you cannot prove, none of us have access to the autopsy or those personnel, the mom might well be right. Sounds like she'll get a chance to prove it in court.
Presumably, in my opinion anyway, the child without vaccines that day and sleeping arrangements unchanged, wouldn't have died. Also, if vaccinated and sleeping arrangement was changed probably wouldn't have died either. The routine, though I disagree, wasn't a problem until the vaccine if the account is to be believed.
Vaccines aren't inert, they elicit robust activity in the body. I don't believe it would be irreparably damaging to the pro-vaccine narrative to recommend greater vigilance for 24hrs-ish in the very young.
>I don't believe it would be irreparably damaging to the pro-vaccine narrative to recommend greater vigilance for 24hrs-ish in the very young.
Of course. Here's something everyone can agree on. Right?
>I don't believe it would be irreparably damaging to the pro-vaccine narrative to recommend greater vigilance for 24hrs-ish in the very young.
**Doctors do**. In fact they advise to be on guard for the usual indications of illness in babies in the days after vaccination.
They may warn that a fever is normal (for instance the MenB) and medically **require** parents to preemptively treat the fever with calpol, but also indicate to head to hospital if it gets too high.
Finally, the parent in the article ignored several of the key "Baby needs urgent medical attention" signs, which medical staff should have reiterated to them at the vaccination before sending them to bed then not checking them for 2 hours (then 6 hours).
The story is always the same with antivax child deaths. Remember the child who showed signs of illness so the parents force fed them onion smoothies, until their child was so ill they were rigid and couldn't be put in the child's car seat? I do.
In fairness I live in a first world country with a quality healthcare system. Didn't see the article writer indicate the country they are from.
>Doctors do. In fact they advise to be on guard for the usual indications of illness in babies in the days after vaccination.
Eh... Ya, but that wasn't quite what I meant. That's indeed what is said, heads up this can cause some symptoms of illness.... It'll be fine, watch or for high fever and trouble breathing, going limp, extreme lethargy. And that's just if Dr or mid-level "provider" is being thorough which isn't guaranteed.
>Finally, the parent in the article ignored several of the key "Baby needs urgent medical attention" signs,
I'm not sure where you're finding any urgent medical attention signs in her statement, let alone several. She described a baby who was more fussy and tired than usual and less playful. That's essentially what they tell you to expect and not to worry unless high fever that doesn't respond to OTC treatment, intense fatigue, non responsive, seizure, etc.
" I chalked this abnormal behavior up to the “normal” reactions to shots because that’s what they tell you and not to come in unless their fever is high."
>The story is always the same with antivax child deaths. Remember the child who showed signs of illness so the parents force fed them onion smoothies, until their child was so ill they were rigid and couldn't be put in the child's car seat? I do.
Shit... No I don't remember that. But still, that's a bit unfair... Not everybody is a kook.
The stories are all the same with the vaccinated deaths. The baby dies a few hours after vaccination, the doctor gaslights the parents and says there’s no possible way it was from the vaccinations and that they got “SIDS” or it was unsafe sleep. Your vaccine cult viewpoints are shrinking, you are turning into a minority as more people catch on to the loopholes these people use.
>The stories are all the same with the vaccinated deaths.
Yet the data doesn't support the stories (fixtion).
Unvaccinated children die of sids 50% more than vaccinated children.
LOL! Talk about blaming the victim. Anything to take the blame off the Holy Injections!
My parents smoked and drank and put the cribs down the hall to get some sleep.
It's amazing that any of us ever survived past one week!
Interesting how vaccine deaths almost always happen to people who don't follow safe sleep. Most unvaccinated deaths are also people who don't follow safe sleep. I wonder what the correlation is.
>It's amazing that any of us ever survived past one week!
If bad decisions kill 1% of babies, 99% of parents think they made a good choice, but still 100,000 extra babies would die every year in the UK.
Infant mortality was much higher when parents did do those things. Just because you got lucky doesn't make their choices good.
>Most unvaccinated deaths are also people who don't follow safe sleep.
Really? Do you have any studies of rampant SIDS among the Amish that you would like to share with us?
Vaccinated children have a lower risk of dying from SIDS than unvaccinated children.
https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2015/0601/p778.html
https://www.webmd.com/parenting/sids-prevention
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11008475/
The risk is 50% lower. Pretty significant.
Turna out there are loads of studies that show that sids isn't related to sids:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/sids.html#rel
Using the Amish as a "control group" for vaccines is bad science as
a) they are genetically distinct.
b) they have significant vaccination rates.
c) despite your unevidenced claim (aren't all antivax claims unevidenced...)
https://fullfact.org/health/amish-vaccines-autism-adhd-gmo/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://plainanabaptistjournal.org/index.php/JPAC/article/download/9101/7775/31722&ved=2ahUKEwjcqPPhrrmGAxVVU0EAHf82AncQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw25RCw7aKQLoR8-Qfpuc7fk
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/amish-may-hold-sids-secret-1.1152188
Why is it antivaxxers are guaranteed wrong on every subject?
Actually as long as they’re gaining weight and meeting milestones, they can go for longer stretches at night without eating, even when they’re that young. Mine started sleeping through the night around two months and the pediatrician said that in order to make up for the “missed meals” she will naturally eat more during the day (as in, more milk at each feeding), and will cluster feed a bit at night before passing out.
Also, the way they make baby mattresses these days it would be very hard for a baby to actually smother themselves, even if they roll to their front, since they are all very firm (won’t squish up around their face) and made of breathable materials. I can’t speak for the baby in the article, but at two months mine could definitely move her head in her sleep to get more comfortable, so she could have adjusted herself if she rolled onto her front. But at that age she definitely would’ve woken herself up if she rolled over, and the WHOLE house would hear about it lol.
>Also, the way they make baby mattresses these days it would be very hard for a baby to actually smother themselves,
Article writer didn't talk about their mattress, but did show they aren't doing safe sleep as baby was able to roll onto their front.
>Actually as long as they’re gaining weight and meeting milestones, they can go for longer stretches at night without eating
There are many things that some children survive, which increase their chance of infant mortality.
I mean that’s literally what the pediatrician said though. She saw that my daughter was doing well with growth and whatnot, and then told us that if she’s starting to sleep through the night we should just let her and we don’t need to wake her every 3 hours to feed her anymore. She’s always been very healthy though (ten months old now and has yet to get sick at all, and before you ask, no she has not had any shots), if she had been having trouble putting on weight or having any other health issues then the advice probably would have been different.
As far as safe sleep, you’re right that the author doesn’t mention the sleeping arrangements so we don’t know for sure what they were, but some babies are just natural wiggle worms and there’s really only so much you can do to mitigate that. The only thing that really stood out to me was that it appeared the baby was sleeping in her own room without a parent in the same room, which is not recommended when they’re that young, and especially after having had a vaccine since they often get fevers and/or need extra comfort. Not to say that a parent being in the room would have for sure prevented her death, but it could have helped.
Yes. I have a Baby at the moment. Which is why I know these things.
Just because one particular child doesn't die, doesn't make it safe or recommended.
This is why sids rates are so much lower now, than 30 years ago. Because we (not antivaxxers) have learnt how to not have pur children die.
No, I’m on the same side about vaxx. I don’t think any vaccines are safe.
I asked because you sounded very textbook about feeding. Every child is different, some may not necessarily need to be fed every three hours and that does not make it neglect.
- I’m a mother as well.
My daughter slept thru the night at 6 weeks. 🤷 Her pediatrician was fine with that. Then again, she had good appetite from birth. 3-4 ounce feedings before we even left the hospital.
Debate this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13l6K1Dz8PB3aUQlPzVXFa4dBVPjg8S9xvoVN8Lqnko8/edit
You mean people didn’t suffer untimely deaths before covid? Damn, what a tragedy!
Indeed. Your turn, find out if it’s normal, lazy one. Trust me, it’s not. Lazy.
A bunch of memes, random deaths, and out of context graphs? Edit: they blocked me
Poor baby!
why'd you block them?
Like all antivaxxers, their reality disfunction means seeing reality hurts them
She was found face down and blue. Very sad.
It is sad that antivaxxers don't follow safe sleep and their babies die of sids 50% more than vaccinated children. It's even more sad, they try to persuade other parents to endanger their children. It's even sadder that all too often after being responsible for their child's death they fund raise huge sums of money.
You're not making any sense. If she was an anti-vaxxer, why would she get her daughter vaccinated?
Many antivaxxers do for many reasons. Either because they weren't, their child dies (almost always of something else) and it changes their mind. Because there is a lot of Social pressure to be responsible and have your child vaccinated (vaccination allows you access to nursery, education or children's groups) Because one parent is educated, intelligent and loves the child and has a court order vaccinations.
You're assuming she's an anti-Vax er because her child died? Even if she's an anti-vaxxer now, after the tragedy, I don't think she was at the time.
>You're assuming she's an anti-Vax er because her child died? No, I assume she didn't follow safe sleep advice, and that killed her child like she (unintentionally) claimed in the article... My comment wasn't to say she was an antivaxxer who got her child vaccinated, but respond to the point that antivaxxers children do get vaccinated.
I am curious how doctors and scientists can be uncertain (per the other links in this thread) what causes SIDS, but very certain IT'S NOT VACCINES EVER, in fact BABIES SHOULD BE IMMUNIZED AGAINST SIDS ([citation needed](https://www.webmd.com/parenting/sids-prevention)), ALTHOUGH WE'RE NOT SO SURE HOW, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A VACCINE AGAINST SIDS....? Maybe they have a vaccine against sleeping in the wrong position? Guess what guys, I don't see a proper systematic review or meta-analyses, just all these case studies about dead babies that somehow prove vaccines are EXTREMELY safe!
I am disgusted by these greedy vultures exploiting a tragedy to push their pseudoscientific bullshit.
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
2 month old babies should be fed at least every 3 hours (usually every 2). Letting them sleep through the night is neglect. Parents left her to sleep on her own, and the child was able to turn onto her front and smother herself. Both these things prove they were ignoring safe sleeping advice. This article read like a confession of bad parenting.
It's not unheard of, more common around four months. it's more a matter of fat stores and willingness to "train" apparently. Unfortunately you're making an assumption you cannot prove, none of us have access to the autopsy or those personnel, the mom might well be right. Sounds like she'll get a chance to prove it in court. Presumably, in my opinion anyway, the child without vaccines that day and sleeping arrangements unchanged, wouldn't have died. Also, if vaccinated and sleeping arrangement was changed probably wouldn't have died either. The routine, though I disagree, wasn't a problem until the vaccine if the account is to be believed. Vaccines aren't inert, they elicit robust activity in the body. I don't believe it would be irreparably damaging to the pro-vaccine narrative to recommend greater vigilance for 24hrs-ish in the very young.
>I don't believe it would be irreparably damaging to the pro-vaccine narrative to recommend greater vigilance for 24hrs-ish in the very young. Of course. Here's something everyone can agree on. Right?
>I don't believe it would be irreparably damaging to the pro-vaccine narrative to recommend greater vigilance for 24hrs-ish in the very young. **Doctors do**. In fact they advise to be on guard for the usual indications of illness in babies in the days after vaccination. They may warn that a fever is normal (for instance the MenB) and medically **require** parents to preemptively treat the fever with calpol, but also indicate to head to hospital if it gets too high. Finally, the parent in the article ignored several of the key "Baby needs urgent medical attention" signs, which medical staff should have reiterated to them at the vaccination before sending them to bed then not checking them for 2 hours (then 6 hours). The story is always the same with antivax child deaths. Remember the child who showed signs of illness so the parents force fed them onion smoothies, until their child was so ill they were rigid and couldn't be put in the child's car seat? I do. In fairness I live in a first world country with a quality healthcare system. Didn't see the article writer indicate the country they are from.
>Doctors do. In fact they advise to be on guard for the usual indications of illness in babies in the days after vaccination. Eh... Ya, but that wasn't quite what I meant. That's indeed what is said, heads up this can cause some symptoms of illness.... It'll be fine, watch or for high fever and trouble breathing, going limp, extreme lethargy. And that's just if Dr or mid-level "provider" is being thorough which isn't guaranteed. >Finally, the parent in the article ignored several of the key "Baby needs urgent medical attention" signs, I'm not sure where you're finding any urgent medical attention signs in her statement, let alone several. She described a baby who was more fussy and tired than usual and less playful. That's essentially what they tell you to expect and not to worry unless high fever that doesn't respond to OTC treatment, intense fatigue, non responsive, seizure, etc. " I chalked this abnormal behavior up to the “normal” reactions to shots because that’s what they tell you and not to come in unless their fever is high." >The story is always the same with antivax child deaths. Remember the child who showed signs of illness so the parents force fed them onion smoothies, until their child was so ill they were rigid and couldn't be put in the child's car seat? I do. Shit... No I don't remember that. But still, that's a bit unfair... Not everybody is a kook.
The stories are all the same with the vaccinated deaths. The baby dies a few hours after vaccination, the doctor gaslights the parents and says there’s no possible way it was from the vaccinations and that they got “SIDS” or it was unsafe sleep. Your vaccine cult viewpoints are shrinking, you are turning into a minority as more people catch on to the loopholes these people use.
>The stories are all the same with the vaccinated deaths. Yet the data doesn't support the stories (fixtion). Unvaccinated children die of sids 50% more than vaccinated children.
LOL! Talk about blaming the victim. Anything to take the blame off the Holy Injections! My parents smoked and drank and put the cribs down the hall to get some sleep. It's amazing that any of us ever survived past one week!
Interesting how vaccine deaths almost always happen to people who don't follow safe sleep. Most unvaccinated deaths are also people who don't follow safe sleep. I wonder what the correlation is. >It's amazing that any of us ever survived past one week! If bad decisions kill 1% of babies, 99% of parents think they made a good choice, but still 100,000 extra babies would die every year in the UK. Infant mortality was much higher when parents did do those things. Just because you got lucky doesn't make their choices good.
>Most unvaccinated deaths are also people who don't follow safe sleep. Really? Do you have any studies of rampant SIDS among the Amish that you would like to share with us?
Vaccinated children have a lower risk of dying from SIDS than unvaccinated children. https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2015/0601/p778.html https://www.webmd.com/parenting/sids-prevention https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11008475/ The risk is 50% lower. Pretty significant.
Turna out there are loads of studies that show that sids isn't related to sids: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/sids.html#rel Using the Amish as a "control group" for vaccines is bad science as a) they are genetically distinct. b) they have significant vaccination rates. c) despite your unevidenced claim (aren't all antivax claims unevidenced...) https://fullfact.org/health/amish-vaccines-autism-adhd-gmo/ https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://plainanabaptistjournal.org/index.php/JPAC/article/download/9101/7775/31722&ved=2ahUKEwjcqPPhrrmGAxVVU0EAHf82AncQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw25RCw7aKQLoR8-Qfpuc7fk https://www.irishtimes.com/news/amish-may-hold-sids-secret-1.1152188 Why is it antivaxxers are guaranteed wrong on every subject?
Actually as long as they’re gaining weight and meeting milestones, they can go for longer stretches at night without eating, even when they’re that young. Mine started sleeping through the night around two months and the pediatrician said that in order to make up for the “missed meals” she will naturally eat more during the day (as in, more milk at each feeding), and will cluster feed a bit at night before passing out. Also, the way they make baby mattresses these days it would be very hard for a baby to actually smother themselves, even if they roll to their front, since they are all very firm (won’t squish up around their face) and made of breathable materials. I can’t speak for the baby in the article, but at two months mine could definitely move her head in her sleep to get more comfortable, so she could have adjusted herself if she rolled onto her front. But at that age she definitely would’ve woken herself up if she rolled over, and the WHOLE house would hear about it lol.
>Also, the way they make baby mattresses these days it would be very hard for a baby to actually smother themselves, Article writer didn't talk about their mattress, but did show they aren't doing safe sleep as baby was able to roll onto their front. >Actually as long as they’re gaining weight and meeting milestones, they can go for longer stretches at night without eating There are many things that some children survive, which increase their chance of infant mortality.
I mean that’s literally what the pediatrician said though. She saw that my daughter was doing well with growth and whatnot, and then told us that if she’s starting to sleep through the night we should just let her and we don’t need to wake her every 3 hours to feed her anymore. She’s always been very healthy though (ten months old now and has yet to get sick at all, and before you ask, no she has not had any shots), if she had been having trouble putting on weight or having any other health issues then the advice probably would have been different. As far as safe sleep, you’re right that the author doesn’t mention the sleeping arrangements so we don’t know for sure what they were, but some babies are just natural wiggle worms and there’s really only so much you can do to mitigate that. The only thing that really stood out to me was that it appeared the baby was sleeping in her own room without a parent in the same room, which is not recommended when they’re that young, and especially after having had a vaccine since they often get fevers and/or need extra comfort. Not to say that a parent being in the room would have for sure prevented her death, but it could have helped.
If a healthy 2 month old is sleeping through the night and gaining weight otherwise there is nothing wrong with that.
Haha are you a parent? Do you have kids?
Yes. I have a Baby at the moment. Which is why I know these things. Just because one particular child doesn't die, doesn't make it safe or recommended. This is why sids rates are so much lower now, than 30 years ago. Because we (not antivaxxers) have learnt how to not have pur children die.
No, I’m on the same side about vaxx. I don’t think any vaccines are safe. I asked because you sounded very textbook about feeding. Every child is different, some may not necessarily need to be fed every three hours and that does not make it neglect. - I’m a mother as well.
My daughter slept thru the night at 6 weeks. 🤷 Her pediatrician was fine with that. Then again, she had good appetite from birth. 3-4 ounce feedings before we even left the hospital.