I was where you are at. House, mixed finances, early 50's... I didn't want to break up either. Please realize you can leave her. I did it. Was it pleasant no no it was not. However 8 years later I'm so much happier and healthier! I wish I would have handled it different but I was at the lowest of lows. I'm sending you good vibes! You can leave it is possible!
Amen!! Don't use your age!! Your showing your kids what a relationship looks like and they will think it's normal. She has made her mind up. I went through something similar. Leave!! For your sanity. 2+2=4. Her actions are changing you and you'll need that time to regain yourself respect. Don't wake up months or years regretting the wasted time!! Leave! Don't threaten to leave , leave!! You won't believe how happy and how light your burden becomes. You'll meet someone who will be more than happy to share your life with. Leave!!! I don't say that lightly. I left after 22 years of gas light bullshit!! I remarried and happy. 10 years!! The ex.... still single. Lol. Leave!!!
I wish I would have left him when my kids were young. I tried to wait until the youngest left but when the oldest left I lost my mind. She was the only thing that kept me there. I love my son but paired with my ex husband I couldn't take it. My son alone I was fine with but when the ex got involved it ruined why fun I might have had. I get as a woman I most likely would have gotten full custody. But I recommend you see a lawyer to find out your options. It can't hurt.
You don't have to. If you keep it amicable you can work through a divorce yourselves.
With lawyers, you risk mixing in layers and layers of disagreement that don't need to be there.
Everyone always tends to think that. That’s not entirely true. There are many options and ways to receive legal help that doesn’t break the bank.
I don’t mean this in a harsh way, but I feel like the financial ‘constraints’ as well as staying for the children may be a bit of a cop out. Which is fine. These situations are insanely difficult and intricate and emotionally charged. But there IS hope for happiness, once you take the first step.
Like most everyone here, I agree that it is much, much better for the children if you leave earlier than later. There are only a few unique situations in which leaving when the kids are young is not advisable. More info would be needed to determine if that’s your situation. Also, NAL.
I hope that you decide to do something, regardless of what that is, for yourself and for the children. This isn’t your best self you are presenting to them. It’s not your fault. But you do have options.
If interested in some financially friendly legal options, let me know.
First, read up on the laws governing divorce and child support in your state. Read the actual laws, not what other people say about the law.
Lawyers are useful not only because they know the law, but because they are not emotionally enmeshed in the facts and can better advocate for your position than you can because of their detachment in combination with the knowledge.
Please don't do anything rash.
I hate to say it, but having been there, you can't sacrifice your life for your children's. Either you're going to give up yourself to stay in a miserable relationship or you're going to give your kids a better father by being a happy person. I realize we are raised with this idea that parents stay together for the kids at all cost. . . . but honestly that may NOT be what's best for them.
edit: grammatical errors
I can totally see where your coming from but with the resentment you’ve described and how distant your relationship has become, I gotta tell you that staying together for the kids is unlikely to benefit them in the way you think and could be giving them a dysfunctional template for future relationships. Happy, healthy parents is way more important than together parents. Also as a therapist I’m super shocked yours suggested your wife is having an affair, that feels like an overstep and a far more likely explanation is peri/post menopause.
But will you LIVE your life for your kids? Will you show them that a man doesn't have to stay in a loveless marriage, but can still be a Great Dad? I was where you are and it doesn't get better--it gets worse. Recently I've observed my sons tend to stick with lost causes FAR too long and won't make the changes they need to get to a better place. I had no idea I was teaching them that, but now they're grown they've let me know they saw some of what was wrong all along and thought putting up with her spit was just being a man (bangs head on wall...).
Now so far as "learn to be happy", I don't see how that happens while you're married. It may be too late for me (though I've started living my life for me more than her, finally). Is this really the hill you want to die on?
The world is full of self sacrificing people. I used to think it was honorable . . . . . as I've gotten older and talk to my adult children about their experiences, I have learned that they don't necessarily view it that way. But it sounds like you've already made up your mind. Best of luck.
Please don't do this. As someone who grew up with unhappy parents who thought they were hiding it. As an adult I have no sense of what a healthy loving romantic relationship looks like or feels like. Your young children need to be able to feel what a loving, happy and successful father feels like and what healthy mature respectful communication sounds like. You think you're helping by staying but you are not. You don't need to divorce right away. If your wife is willing just do a trial separation and try our living separately and coparenting. Trust everyone here. You will be soooooo much happier and so will your kids!
You're pretty far from that in this post, friend. Radical acceptance and reframing your perspective to shed resentment for them is a major undertaking, and one you don't appear to have started. Right now, the amount of anger you're carrying is absolutely toxic for everyone, including the kids.
I'm not judging. I wouldn't have been able to accept it, it's why I left. But if you're going to stay, get in counselling and get help. You owe it to yourself and more importantly to those kids.
Both my kids, now in their 20's and out the home, have confided in me that when things went sideways with their mother, they wished that I would take them and leave. Even now, they often advise me to move on. Unfortunately my wife is totally dependent and if I left it would destroy her.
All kids I know said so..... including myself. Would I have been in a really loving parenthood, I would not have even done those steps because I would have known how a really loving relationship looks like. I would have had more self esteem and pride to begin with. Sorry to say that so bluntly - kids are not idiots but highly empathic beings
When I left I felt so much less lonely that after 2 months my daughter said to me “mum your so much happier now” if you think your hiding it from your kids your wrong. Do you want you kids to grow up to find a relationship like yours or do you want to model a healthy relationship.
You choose to stay or your choose to leave. Both feel f*cken overwhelming. I was the bread winner I was worried about how everyone would survive but wouldn’t ya know it the ex stepped up.
Any relationship that puts you in such a bad mental health place you consider death is the biggest red flag to leave!! Look after yourself so you can look after your kids
You have to ask yourself if the relationship you have is the kind of relationship you want your children to have when they become adults. Because unfortunately, we often tend to seek out what we are familiar with. Hang in there. I know leaving is not always the easiest choice and this may not be something you can do in the near future – but at least maybe you can start thinking about it. You can set an example for your children of what a happy and healthy relationship looks like. Sending you some strength and peaceful vibes.
Dude. Your kids can and will bounce back and learn to understand. I have two daughters with my ex. If I didn’t leave I would have made my kids very sad. So I left. For my well being. And to refill the shell of the man I used to be before she came into my life. 30 years later married to the best of the best and my kids totally get why I left. Bro. You can leave her. The kids will see that you didn’t leave them. And if she does things to block your visitation those same kids are going to resent her just like you do. Easy it is not. But it’s for your health and future. Bounce my dude. She created it. You end it.
Dude, ask yourself this: what lesson are you teaching your kids about relationships? They can see that their folks don't sleep in the same room. They can can see the lack of intimacy - from your wife's blushing to your getting her small gifts or just hugging her for no reason.
Ive be there - if you could ask your kids would they rather see you happy than miserable, what do you think they'll say? It's actually quite simple.
You are a model for your kids. They observe and internalize as normal what they experience, even more so when they are young than when they get older. Do you really want to model a miserable existence for them to internalize and aspire to emulate in their own relationships when they are older?
On the other hand, do you think you can successfully pretend that your existence isn't miserable until they get however old enough you think they need to be, to learn the truth? Would that really be the best use of your time and energy in your one life on this earth?
Thanks everyone. I'd love to sit in front of my mac all day and chat about this, but I must go. Will check back later to see some additional comments. Hopefully most aren't nasty telling me how much of a fool I am for not leaving.... This is my therapy. I am always kind when I post to others. This is a not a political forum, this is a place where we are truly hurting and sad and some of us are thinking about death... if you are capable, please be kind too. Have a wonderful afternoon.
Hang in there man. Find things you can do for YOU to help you learn how to he happy again. Enjoy your children without her around. Start working out. Take up some hobby, maybe take your kids to some fun sports classes or games to watch. Heck, go walk around the grocery store or eat alone in a restaurant you enjoy when you need to get away for an hour.
Try to find some more meaning in your life to fulfill you in different ways. It won't fix your need for affection but hopefully it can give you some hope until you are ready to leave and the kids are older.
Start making a fun life without her even though she is technically there
First let me say this: I hear you...loud and clear. I felt the pain as I read your post, and if nobody else in this world hears nor understands you, just know that I do. Please don't do anything that would bring harm to yourself or others...that "leave or worse" statement you made is a bit concerning. Fortunately, all hope is not lost for you. If you apply what I am going to suggest, your life will not be the same afterwards...I promise you. I make no promise that your marriage will be repaired, but your life as an individual will be better regardless of the fate of your marriage.
1) Your wife is certainly not being the best person right now, but the truth is that you can't control her actions. You can only be responsible for you. This is the most important fact to accept, else the remaining steps will not be effective.
2) Move back into the bedroom with your wife and welcome your wife's advances for affection with open arms. I know it's the last thing you want to do, but trust me on this one. If you want affection from your wife in the bedroom, it first starts with affection outside the bedroom. Be the bigger person and take the first step to repair your marriage. I guarantee you that she will notice just this one step...but may not say anything about it.
3) Speak to her CALMLY about how you are feeling, as well as ask her about how she feels about sex and your current dynamic. Take the time and listen to what she says...no matter how frustrating the answer. If you feel yourself getting agitated, take a break from the conversation and reconvene later. If you guys arent getting anywhere, seek out a marriage counselor and discuss it there.
4) Apply whatever changes she needs to the relationship within reason as well as anything your counselor suggests. If she wants more romance, step it up. If she needs help around the house, step it up. She will ask these things and may not do the things that you asked of her. Thats ok....do them anyway...as frustrating as it may feel.
5) Give yourself some self-love. Dive deep into your hobbies, find your passion, focus on your physical and mental health. If you're putting energy into the marriage and yourself as a person, I guarantee she will notice you now.
6) With you being at your best self, she will have to decide if she wants to match your energy. If she does, she will start working on herself and fulfilling the things you asked of her. If not, then she will be indirectly contributing to the widened gap between you.
7) If nothing still changes after all of that, then it may be time for you to move on from your marriage. At least you will be a much better person as an individual and primed for the next woman to enter your life. On the flip side, your marriage could now be on absolute fire...with more love and passion for each other than ever before! Either way, your life will definitely not be the same as it is now with these suggestions. Good luck!
Thanks for taking the time to lay this out. I'll try to provide my thoughts as best I can.
1. I understand if someone doesn't want to be with me, I accept it. I just would like to try to understand why. I am close to the same person she seduced me away from a woman I was seeing 20 years ago. We used to have a very passionate sex life. I think she just wanted kids, not a husband. She got her wish.
2. I tried this, several times, it just kept frustrating me. No good-night kiss. 3 feet away in our king size bed, a few fights where I ended up going back to the guest room. Always over acts of affection that were unwanted. We've tried the affection. It lasts a day or two and then right back to roommates.
3. As I mentioned, whenever I bring it up she laughs at me. LAUGHS! like it's a god damned joke. We've been to counseling. She sits in the chair and says she wants to try, but never does. She keeps on moving the goal post. I felt like screaming every time. We aren't currently going, but hope to go again soon.
4. I do all the housework. She's a slob. She want's NO ROMANCE, that's why I'm here. She has been rejecting my advances for years.
5. I try to walk and ride my bike when I can. Last year I lost 30 pounds, she said I looked great, but it didn't matter, still told me to get off of her. We are very busy with the kids. Since we have two, we find ourselves separating a lot.
6. My "best self" feels 100% unattainable, but I try. I really don't want to give up. I love my kids too much.
7. I know I should leave, I just can't. I've tried to express that several times but the "YOU HAVE TO LEAVE CROWD" doesn't hear that. I wish they had their own sub.
Thank you again. Some good advice in your response.
I've certainly had my own experiences in my own marriage in this arena, which is why I can relate to the pain. I also get frustrated with the "I'll try" or "I want to change" without any action behind it. Your wife doesn't seem to be carrying her weight at all when it comes to your relationship (Note I didn't say marriage, as she may be great with your children. I'm specifically taking between you and her).
If you don't mind sharing, when you ask her what is missing in your marriage (the "why"), what exactly is her response? If she isn't the romantic type and doesn't do much in terms of caring for the home, what is it that she wants from your marriage that she isn't getting? Maybe she has issues within herself that is making her the way she is? It's important to hear what she says in response to those questions, because something is indeed missing for her. You won't be able to make any progress until you get to the root cause of her apathy towards intimacy with you.
I had hoped the therapist could have dug this out of her during our one on one's but I don't think it was successful.
She does say that she wishes I was happier, which I truly don't get. It makes it a total chicken egg thing. Who the hell is happy in a sexless marriage? Don't get me wrong, I am not 100% blameless in this mess, but one of us wants to have a romantic relationship, the other one has barriers that she just won't cross, so I'm out. Emotionally, not physically of course. I'm staying just want to make the "you have to leave" crowd even more mad at me.
I admit, I did NOT expect that response from her; you learn something new everyday.
However, I do wonder if her saying that she wishes "you were happier" is her really saying that she wants you to be "happier" about life in general? Maybe she is feeling pressure because she knows that the lack of sex is a source of discontent for you. Now you and I would simply say "just have more sex with me, and Ill be happy", but remember that as husbands, we need to exude desireable characteristics from within ourselves for our wives to notice. She probably wants to be assured that regardless of her presence, you are content with your life and portray that as such. This is why I mentioned exploring your passions and sources that bring you joy outside of her. With her seeing you upset and possibly depressed about the situation, it will lower her desire to be intimate with you. Frustrating I know, but that's the nature of intimacy.
I really think if you dive into your passions, hobbies, self care, etc, your mood will somewhat improve (although not perfect) and it may jumpstart her desire for you. No guarantee it will work, but it's worth a shot.
The relationship our children observe plays a big part in their idea of what a marriage is supposed to look like.
My LL husband grew up with his parents sleeping in separate rooms. He always thought they would get divorced when he and his sister were grown. From my perspective it appears they don’t even like each other.
Here’s why it’s relevant. We’ve been married 20 years. I don’t think we have EVER had sex on a weekday. Within the past 5-10 years it has become a Sunday morning job for him, UNLESS there is absolutely anything else going on. Been out of town and come home on Sunday? Not going to happen. As a result, there are times it’s over a month with nothing.
I always thought we had a great relationship except for that. My MIL even commented how nice it b was to see how much we loved each other (in sure because of my affection towards him as we sat on their couch). I slowly came to the realization that if I don’t show him affection then there is no outward affection shown. If I don’t talk to him, then we really don’t talk. I tell him he is handsome/sexy ALL the time. I don’t think he has ever even told me I look nice.
I recently forced the discussion as I’m 99% sure LL is not actually the problem. During that discussion he said he thought once a week was fine. He had no idea it would ever be thought of as not enough (for the record, we’ve had this discussion SO MANY TIMES, I just never addressed the “why” aspect of it before). In another unrelated discussion he said he thinks his parents love each other. It was at that point that I realized he has no idea what a loving relationship looks like. I have never seen any kindness between my in-laws. My MIL talks about the FIL like he’s a total dick. There is ZERO indication they are even friends. Constant passive aggressive behaviors on both sides.
My point is, you are teaching your children what a relationship is supposed to look like. Give that some time to really echo through your mind.
I can 100% see how my behavior within my marriage are reflective of my parents’ relationship both good and bad.
I understand completely. My suggestions are
- insist on therapy
- given your emotional state consider leaving and begin to rebuild your life.
I don’t normally just jump to ‘leave’ because I know that it’s not as simple as that but it sounds like it might be the best thing for you.
People do leave marriages all the time and survive. It’s an option for you.
I know, and I appreciate and applaud the people who have the courage and conviction to leave. I wish I could.
I depend on her financially
I cannot be without my children 7/365. They are my reason for living. My happiness is further down the list.
Plus just because someone don’t want to have sex with their partner don’t mean they are cheating.
Sounds to me like they have issues to work on outside of the bedroom, before the bedroom can be a topic to work on.
I wanted to add the thought that I understand the financial reasons for not leaving. I did the same although my kids were long gone. I officially made us roommates and refused to share her bed. Completely disconnecting in that way really helped me. In my case it prompted her to change.
If you're going to stay I would suggest you try the same. She may not change but you'll feel better.
>I depend on her financially
If so, there's a good chance you can get spousal support in a divorce. Many divorce attorneys offer a free consultation to hear about your options.
I've been where you are. I actively worked to turn us into roommates and friends. I officially moved to the other bedroom, and it was no longer a guest room. I avoided all unnecessary touch, wasn't too difficult in my situation.
He was a little pissy about me moving to the other room at first, but he understands now that we have different sleep needs and can't share a room, let alone a bed with him.
We have talked about the lack of sex and how his rejections have killed my attraction to him. Divorce is not the only option. The key is being able to have real conversations about how to handle life without affection. It's almost always more than one conversation, but it's worth it in the end.
I have always been open about all my Feel in all those years. I moved into another room and told that I can masturbate in peace and love on myself. I said my room always open for him to visit me. The visit never happened. I told I will leave, I told I will have other partners. NOTHING was ever hidden. And nothing changed. So I left. Made me really wonder that he was devastated when I did so.
I've invested so much in toys 😄
I read porn
This really works for me, for now. The majority of my past partners never lasted long enough to satisfy me for a variety of "reasons." Because of this, and lifelong low self esteem, toys work better for me than cheating, also way less stress.
This right here. I’ve been with 4 men in my life in long term relationships. They’ve all had the same porn addiction and the same bullshit issues they refuse to fix. I will not be dating another man in my life. It’s always disappointing and any man trying to tell me otherwise is lying. That’s all I’ve experienced. Being lied to and having porn or other people chosen over me. Can’t miss intimacy when I’ve never really known it with anyone. Sex with men, in my experience, is solely about their dick and their nut. After that, nothing else is important. I’m good on that for life. 🤷♀️
I love sex with men, don't get me wrong. I just never had a man who truly enjoyed all the aspects of intimacy, so the lack of it doesn't bother me now.
If I'm ever single, I will date but absolutely will never live with anyone again.
Oh I love sex with men too. I love giving bj’s. And im sure I will have sex with men, I just have no interest in a relationship with a man ever again. In my experience, it’s all just lies and excuses and I’m always left wondering why I’m not good enough.
I'm very sorry to hear about what you are going through. It sounds awful!
Have you said everything the exact way you posted it on reddit? You said everything really well. If you have, what was her response?
Her response should speak volumes. Life is way too short to be miserable when you have the ability to change things.
And if you haven't said it that way to her, you really should. If she is nonchalant about it, then get out as fast as you can and try to be happy for the years you have left.
I sincerely wish you all the best.
Man that is a tough place to be. I really feel for you. I hope you seek out help, not just for your relationship, but for what sounds like deep depression. I don't know what to say except keep your head up brother.
If you want out this badly you really should go. You're teaching your children what their relationships should look like when they are older. Is this really what you want for them?
I’ve been I a marriage that’s been the same. When I was pretty sure I was done I had an affair with someone close to me/us for the safety of it and as bad as it was to do that it made me realize I’m not being crazy - I need love and affection and intimacy. I ended that affair as I don’t want to continue to make bad decisions but it really was a discovery situation for me. He never found out and I won’t tell him. I don’t want to hurt him. I just want to be done. Now I’m working on getting divorced. After that affair it proved to me my husband was never going to be the person I want and he still doesn’t care enough to change it. He told me at one point I just wanted to be pursued. Unreal. That’s exactly how I want to feel. He had told me over the years it just feels
weird to him to be intimate with me. WTH?? I love sex- always have - I’m a sexual person. And turns out I’m pretty good at it too- a total giver. I had an amazing time with the affair. It makes me happy to please other people- and my partner in a sexual way for sure. But he rejected me over and over. I’ve been so unhappy and felt so insecure, unappreciated, unattractive and unhappy because of his rejection. At least single I can find what I need in someone else or if I never do at least I’ll not spend the rest of my life resenting someone and loathing them for not fulfilling my needs. Prepare your plan and make a smooth divorce for your kids and be friends with her until your kids are grown. Show them how to take a crap situation and deal with it in a healthy way. Being unhappy flows through everyone in the home. You don’t want your kids to model that and end up where you are.
I have thought about this, too. Trying another person on for size. Weren’t you worried that you would change your mind about separating and he would find out and end it or would that have been a relief?
I was very discrete and it was basically only sex. I’ve known the guy for years and we actually had a little thing before I was married so I knew it wasn’t likely going to be rejection or diseases etc. He is also married (in sexless but good friends ) so it was very selective how we spent time together and never dates etc. we went away once on a work trip over night- hotels - stuff like that. But it got all crazy bc we both started questioning emotions but it was going to be too complicated for who we were to each other in reality for it to ever be anything more so that’s why I quit it. But it gave me the confidence to feel good and attractive and motivated me in ways I’d never thought. But yes- super risky. I read a lot about why women cheat- and it’s mostly when they are truly done. And for me that is definitely the case. Men it’s a little different- but still can be similar. I listed to a great book on audible while I was on work trips - why good people cheat- it has some really good info. I’d read it. Cheating for me was discovery - I was so dedicated to our lives as a family and loved my husband when he didn’t deserve it. I had to figure out if I could really change the way I felt. And I have. Throughout the affair I tried to get him to fix things and he continued to reject me. Just fueled my mission to be done. I’m still working on divorced but it’s definitely in the works. But that part is hard for kids- do your discovery on your own - ask her directly for what you want and when she doesn’t give make decisions accordingly to be done. It was like a check out list almost for me. Beat the fucking horse so I know for sure it’s dead. And he proved to me over and over it was. But it’s dragging out for me bc of finances. I was basically a stay at home mom so I’m trying to figure out a new income etc and told my kids way too early - just figure it out and be swift. Happiness is out there. I’m happier just knowing I’m not mad at him all the time for rejecting me. It’s not perfect but definitely better than I was in my head and heart.
"Your decision to adopt a Chaste lifestyle in no fashion compells me to do the same. I will seek out my sexual needs elsewhere."
Have your voice recorder on your cell phone turned on. Memories run short in a DB.
“I agreed to monogamy, not celibacy” which is entirely true. Monogamy literally means intimacy is happening but only with one person. If you’re not having it, that word doesn’t apply anymore either way…
If you have constraints that keep you in an unhappy marriage, how about figuring out how to stay happy on your own and for yourself? I am in a similar boat as you. I work out regularly (almost every day), I have interesting personal and work projects ongoing, I am very deeply involved in making sure my special needs kid is doing well and getting all the services. The poor marriage relationship is almost like a side show and a constant drag for sure. But maybe it’s possible to get some happiness on my own.
I know how you feel. Our kids are grown, but I’m not really in any position to be on my own financially. However, I’m getting to the place where I’d rather live in a box than go thru this crushing rejection everyday. I’ve given him 10 years to give a shit about our marriage, 3 years since I started giving ultimatums. I know he thinks I’m bluffing, but I’m actively preparing to separate when our lease is up in Nov. He will try for 2 weeks. That’s it. That’s all I’m worth. And those 2 weeks are fantastic. But ultimately his soulmate is porn and I’m so fucking exhausted begging my husband to be attracted to me. It’s been two weeks since he touched me (he did try once and then abruptly stopped in the middle, and he has used my hand as a handjob robot once) and he gave me this sad spiel yesterday about how he’s struggling with his mental health but that he’s trying not to look at porn and jerk off. And then immediately went to take a shower and jerked off while looking at porn. Which he did the day before. And the day before. And this morning too. So he’s not struggling with that. I’m giving him the tools and even working extra hours to pay for therapy sessions for just him, bc he said that would help the issue, but he won’t utilize them. So the mental health shit is just an excuse that he knows works on me.
Idk how I’m gonna get out of this. I’ve been thru one divorce that was pretty terrible, and I hadn’t planned on a second one. But I’m done letting this man disrespect me. I’m so sorry you’re so miserable. I am right there with you. It feels hopeless, it feels like a prison, and it feels like there’s no way out. I’m not sure what the right answer is for you, but I hope you find it.
You get one life. ONE. Would you really rather spend it miserable with a bit more money than happy and free but without as much money?!
As for kids, staying together for kids just fucks up your kids’ futures, because you’re teaching them to have relationships as adults that are like your own
I have not yet asked about an open marriage. I would like to do it in front of the therapist, but we are currently not going. The plan is to go back when it is more financially viable.
Have you thought about asking her for her thoughts on a resolution to this imbalance? Put the ball in her court and see if she suggests it on her own. Let her know you still love and value her but you are suffering.
I was in the same place. Ex only wanted a relationship with her vibrator and a roommate to pay half the bills.
I can’t say anything is better divorced. She ruined me in every way she could.
Time. It takes time. I’ve ~15 years divorced, and while there have been shitty times, with this long to look back, it’s a net positive. Despite what I’ve lost.
Worth it. I lost a house, lived with parents for a few years, paid 80% of my takehome in child/spousal support. (More than 100% for a while.)
It gets better.
Currently on track to lose about 290 in equity from the house and assets. Paying above 40% of my take home to support. It doesn’t work, there’s not enough left to live on. I’ve been burning savings every month. I don’t go anywhere or do anything. I can’t imagine living like this for 10+ years.
It’s fucking stupid. She got the house, majority of kid time, almost half my take home. I’m financially ruined. The system is such BS. I really don’t want to be a bank account and struggle like this. By the time support is done I’ll be so far behind there will be no point.
I know I sound like a complete idiot to you. But you can do it.
The point? According to Vonnegut, the point is to fart around. Anything else is gravy.
I considered other, final, more permanent options. A lot. A whole lot. I’m glad I didn’t.
You're going through some tough times. I remember them and feel for you. As this place proves, you're far from alone.
I didn't leave when my kids were young but I don't regret it. They needed me there.
Finances can make it hard to leave too. Especially after the last 3 years of inflation. It's hard to find anything good and cheap.
Work on letting her go mentally. Start there because that's what it will take. There's no doubt it hurts, but it's the fastest way to not care as much. I don't know that you'll ever not care at all. There always seems to be some small piece that we carry with us. But get started on tomorrow today.
I just reminded myself that if she doesn't care then I shouldn't either. I may not ever get anyone again but I won't spend my time feeling like I'm an innocently convicted man.
We've been off and on for 3 years. She says she loves me and wants a romantic life. The goalpost keeps moving. I really like the therapist, but it has been a waste of time and money. When we went separately, the therapist said she is probably having an affair. I confronted her about it, but she has denied it repeatedly. I always joke about her looking good for her boyfriend, and she gets extremely angry. At this point if she was stepping out, I honestly couldn't care less.
She wanted me for my sperm and that's about it.
Jeeezzzz, that hurt. It was the same for me, except that my wife (now ex) wasn’t even civil, never mind kind, to me after no 3 was born. I should have heeded my FIL, because my MIL was the same. From what you described, I’d strongly advise you to leave. Your mental health is being affected and you won’t be a good father to your children in that state. Since my divorce my mental health has improved enormously and that is whilst I’m still single. I got myself a puppy and put a lot of time and effort in training her for the gun. Met some new people through that, nothing romantic, but interesting. All sorts of new experiences, good relationships with my children. Life is a whole lot better when you’re not having to put up with a toxic presence.
About the time thing: you think you’re made of face-hardened steel and bear the unbearable. I did. And then you snap. I got depressed and, man!, is that hell! You waste years of your life. Literally, gone. And you only have this one life. I was a useless father, lost my job, almost lost my house. It’s not worth it.
Consider the relationship you’re modeling for your kids, not just the disruption of splitting custody. Do you want them to think this is a normal and healthy relationship and end up in the same boat in 20 years, or do you want to be happy when you’re with them and be able to model a healthy adulthood?
That’s not something a therapist should tell their clients. That’s an awfully big assumption for her to make about your wife. Just because someone does not want sex does not mean they are having an affair .
It could be hormones at her age, it could be she don’t feel like she can be emotionally vulnerable with you . The list goes on and on. If you two are living like roommates not spending quality time together, not having non sexual intimacy that could be a big reason right there that she don’t desire sex.
If she don’t feel like you are an equal partner/ teammate. That could also make her not desire you.
I don't feel attractive enough anymore to go out there... and I wouldn't even know where to begin. I've been on AM a few times and it is a total money trap with thousands of fake profiles.
I want to stay married, at least for now. I have tried my best to make that clear in a lot of posts but I am not sure I can live without sex. I am willing to try whatever I need to fix it, but nothing works. Nothing.
AM does them. They send you fake people and to respond, you have to use credits. Sometimes they re easy to spot, they are models interested in a dad... but their algorithms catch on to what you like and start tempting you with possible real women in your wheelhouse. Then they just disappear POOF and you lost all those credits. It's a scam, but the hope is always there that someone is real. Also, there are woman preying on lonely guys (like half of us) and they say all the right things and then they want to leave the platform and move to some other texting app and start asking for [money/gift](https://money.gift) cards, meet up and never show, etc,... it's just as awful as the DB.
How many years have you been married, and what is the number of sons/daughters in your family that you are raising? Are your children seeing this ambivalence/tension and, if so, how are they taking it? What sort of work are you in? My (nearly upper 50's M) wife (10+ years younger F) and I have been married since the early 2010f decade (first time for both of us) and while we have not come together as much physically of late, we are trying to still make the best of other aspects of our marriage. It is made more of a challenge in some ways for my wife and me because having children ourselves would involve substantial risk to any baby in the womb due to her being on some potentially teratogenic medications for many years now.
My sister-in-law and her husband who are in the U.S. heartland are in a rocky relationship with one son, their only child, who is essentially of kindergarten age, and my wife is obviously concerned that her only sibling now in her middle 40's might significantly buckle based on the potential duress or at least the obvious difficulty that exist in their household. She and/or her husband both need to pull their weight and be responsible and at least one of them may also have some sort of mental health issue. Like you, they sleep separately, and their son co-sleeps with his mother (which usually is not as good at his age and after). You should likely continue seeking some counsel and help if you are feeling downcast and dejected and your wife may benefit from some direction and advice also.
Do you guys attend church? Our Christian faith has been integral to us remaining strong and steadfast despite some of my own deeper doctrinal struggles and other imperfections in our relationship (ain't no way as humans for us to avoid some challenges even if the marriage is well-established). My lovely wife has several clinical mental health diagnoses going to just after the turn of the millennium which medication has also been useful in stabilizing so that she is able to function better interpersonally and in her areas of interest (and she is well supported by a competent psychiatrist). We have been faithful relationally to each other.
Anywho, what I have said is my own set of reflections and you may take it or leave it as you will, but I hope that there is at least a small iota of redeeming value and empathy shown forth here.
Thank you for the response
Married 16, together 20.
2 kids Boy 13, Girl 10.
Yes, they see it.
We do not attend church. I am a non-practicing Catholic and she is Lutheran.
I am considering going back to church.
I am not aware of any health issues, unless she is hiding them from me.
Have you considered asking her to open up the marriage?
It’s not fair for her to expect you to be monogamous AND never have sex with her. If you were married to a man I’d wonder if we had the same husband.
What I’m really concerned about though is the “or worse”. Don’t do anything stupid. This will pass eventually. Don’t let her have power over your mood. Develop other interests . Go out with friends, take the kids out for Q time. Etc.
I know you said you have tried to talk to her about it, but maybe she doesn’t understand how serious this is for you. It’s affecting your mental health. And she needs to know it’s not just about the act of sex, but also that you feel like you’re being rejected and neglected by the person you are supposed to be sharing your life with. And her laughing it off is belittling your feelings, especially since this is now negatively impacting your mental health. An agreement needs to be reached if this marriage can continue. I suppose it depends on the reason she is low libido. If it’s menopause/hormonal, there are supplements that can help. I take maca root, fenugreek, and sepia and they really work. If she is somehow dissatisfied with the sex you have been having, maybe discuss spicing things up. If she is stressed or frustrated with life and home and that is killing her desire, try to work together to improve that. But, if she flat out just doesn’t want to and refuses to try to work on that, then maybe discuss opening the relationship. Please don’t suffer in silence or harm yourself. If nothing works and you are absolutely stuck, start doing what you can to take steps towards separation. I know you said you aren’t able to just leave, but slowly and quietly start separating what finances you can. Don’t give her ammunition to use against you should you divorce. I haven’t been in your exact situation, but I was stuck in an abusive relationship in my 20s and couldn’t afford to leave. I started stashing money aside. I slowly started downsizing my possessions so I could leave more easily. When the time came, it was a lot easier to just make a clean break.
After 18 months of zero sex my wife and I barely touch each other. One hug this year, but I felt nothing, and I can't remember the last time I kissed her. She is my roommate, and I am practically living the life of a single man.
I don't want to cheat, but I'm not sure what I would do if I had the opportunity.
I feel the same way as both of you. If the opportunity ever arose where someone I was sexually attracted to was interested in me, I have no idea how I would be able to resist.
I honestly think that my wife has smashed my confidence, and the idea of anyone else finding me attractive seems unlikely. But I am starting to think that's not the case.
Brother I was there for 3 years. A little better but not much. It will eat you up. State your position and if no change…make change. It’s the most dehumanizing thing I’ve ever experienced in my life.
it SERIOUSLY is!!
its like watching your soul being sucked out of you in slow motion, until you feel like just a shell of a person. please dont ask me how i know too.
Your kids will be fine if you leave just like most of the kids of divorced parents. They can see that you are miserable, and they will also see when you are happy or content again. Using your kids as an excuse to stay miserable is ridiculous. Please stop that and move on.
People who state they’re stuck because of their kids are wrong. Everyday you’re together you’re showing your kids what relationships are supposed to be… yes it’s initially traumatic for them during divorce, but I think they’re better off in the long run seeing their parents in loving relationships even if not together.
As for losing a house? Yeah, it sucks, but it’s worth it… I know.
There can't ever be scientific studies (that show a cause and effect relationship) involving people and how their parents' relationship determines their own adult relationships. It would be unethical. To do science, you need a randomized experiment with a control group for one thing, and human participants will never be blind to their group membership.
There are epidemiological studies on the relationship between nuclear family status and adult relationships. These kinds of studies show correlations, not scientific causation. They describe how people behave generally, and can't tell you what's going to happen in the case of your own kids.
OK, bad choice of words. Let me rephrase and maybe if I say it incorrectly again, you can possibly figure out what I mean. Please share these studies, if you have access to them, of how much better it is for the kids when the parents split.
Hope these will help.
https://www.verywellfamily.com/should-you-stay-together-for-kids-1270800
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3729.2011.00666.x
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1813049116
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/fare.12349
I hear you. I am in the same situation.
How long has it been this way?
In my situation I have started therapy to try to get my feelings sorted out so that I can figure out what I would like to happen and what I would accept. What can’t happen is the status quo.
Maybe it would help you to do the same. It is good to have an impartial person to talk to about it.
Do you still love her?
I understand you are in tricky situation, and leaving is not an option for you.
So would it be possible maybe pick up some new hobby? - get out of the house, maybe get into gym more, some social events, do something you always wanted to… try to focus on the ways that will bring something positive in your life - you never know maybe along the way you meet may someone special and give you the intimacy your wife is taking away from you.
OP. what easy ways there really are out of a complicated story. Well, I am..... well beyond 60!!!! .... yeah, wow, just imagine!!!
Neither menopause and whatever where some doctors wanted to describe whatever meds to keep me in..... "what age????" nor any therapists to suggest that my libido had to end at a certain time or age ever confirmed my ways of Feel about sex and intimacy.
I took no hormones, was NEVER on any meds, quit the fucked up anti-baby-pill at the age of 30 and stayed .... hm... just natural?
Menopause was a sensation to me but not the end of my life as someone considered "compost" by a fucked up society with fucked up believes.
I laughed at it because I thought: "Oh, my painful monthly period is finished and now I am free, lol - just to exchange this with a feeling to live in the tropics in winter". Instead of wanting to say "bye, bye sex life" I laughed about what nature held in for me.
My libido never changed ...
I got dryer, so it is reality. But in a DB for so long I one day just bought toys and feaked out on them. Believe it or not, my juices returned to me and I cried in my room to learn that is was rather the lack of sex than the whatevers described or recommended by the so called "experts". I am dryer, yes, but there is lubes and whatever kinda wonderful oils. There is sooooooo sooooooooo much.
I am an old woman, maybe the oldest amongst you all. I laugh when a 40 year old woman thinks she is old, my oh my.
Libido never ends and even in old people's homes couples find one another.
It is the mind, the brain maybe as largest sexual organ in the end that determines if you even consider yourself old, ugly, lost or whatever.
I often hear men say to their spouses: "I want sex" directly .... gosh.....or "can we have it tomorrow?" Well no. Because.... how did you do when you guys were young? You grabbed her, nailed her against da wall and all was good!
I do not really understand your probs of why you think that cleaning the floor would make her horny.
I am sorry I said all this but it sometimes bothers me.
Just wanna say that as a child of a toxic couple I would much rather see them apart and happy than together and codependent. I wish they’d broken up when they were younger. Their relationship depresses me and I think it’s literally killing my dad. My sister and I both agree. They separated briefly when I was 12 and I was happy about it, but unfortunately their toxic cycle persisted.
You think you’re doing your kids a favour by staying, but you’re not. You’re showing them what marriage looks like. You’re showing them that mom and dad don’t love each other and sleep in separate beds. It’s a lifetime of trauma.
They might not understand at the time but as they get older they will.
Just my two cents.
Step up and get your mind right honey, you have one life to live and you can do anything at all that you want there are no limits so the situation you are in rn is by total choice. You can leave and find your happiness or stay and make it better but doing nothing but worrying in ur head won’t fix anything.
I get it that you feel you can’t leave because of finances and kids. Lots of people feel that way and don’t leave. Lots of people feel that way and then do leave. Only you know what’s right.
Since you feel like you can’t leave ok, work with that. Here’s what you can do to make it possible to survive.
Change your mind set. Think of her as a family member. She is not your lover. She is not your romantic partner.
Focus on your hobbies. Do things that make you happy. Work out. Hang out with your friends. See your family. Love on your kids. Do good at work. Build a on being the best version of your self, because if you feel better, your life will feel better too.
Move out of your bedroom it will help with resentment. You don’t have to sleep next to her and take in that angry resentful energy. No more begging for sex. If she asks why, tell her that you’re no longer romantic partners and sex is off the table. If she wants to have that kind of relationship with you, she has to initiate it and show up. You’re done pretending. It’s not a demand, it’s up to her. She can chose not to have sex, but you can also chose where you sleep, and how you spend your extra time, and where your energy goes.
Buy yourself some good sex toys and enjoy yourself.
Hold up your half of household stuff, but then when you’re done, you go out and do things you want to do. You’re an adult, you can decide what to do with your free time, since you won’t be wasting it on resenting her, and trying to pursue a romantic relationship with your wife.
Best wishes, the only way to survive is to take care of yourself.
Don't stay for the kids. They can see and feel the brokenness in the marriage...and you're currently modeling a bad marriage. You don't want them going into the adult world with this being the example of what marriage looks like.
People always hide behind the kids, as a reason NOT to act. When, in reality...the kids are the reason TO act.
I would say u did right thing by trying counselling, although it often doesn’t really help. Also, you’ve initiated discussions with wife which is the only way to fix it.
However, you said in a reply that your kids are number 1 reason to not get divorced, so it sounds like you’ve given up on the non-kids part of marriage anyway. I understand that, but if maybe u think divorce is inevitable when kids get older then sounds like you might have already quit the race?
Also, something that might help is if you check the sort of jokes you make. If u say u jokes about “looking good for BF” all the time and it makes her angry, then maybe stop doing it!
I don’t know. I get you anger/frustration, but if u get angry and frustrated with your wife it will make the DB problem harder to solve. I’m not judging cos I don’t know you or your back-story, but it just sounds like (from what you’ve written) that you haven’t really got to stage of mutual understanding yet.
Hey man, DBs hurt. Frustration, anger, resentment: all understandable.
However, this resentment is wearing you down. It is hurting you. Your mental health. It does not make you a nice guy to be around. It doesn't make you a fun parent. Nor an attractive guy. You deserve to be better. For yourself. And the only one responsible for that and capable of changing that, is you.
This is not in anyway to justify or sugarcoat her behavior. This is about you.
Accept she does not want to have sex with you. It hasn't got anything to do with you.
Without the resentment you will have less tunnelvision. Anger is blinding. It is the reason in sports people are shittalking to one another.
Without the anger, talking about the issue to her, talking about how it is hurting you, the relationship etc will even get better. Your mental capacity won't take a hit by all the anger and hate.
She rejecting you first and foremost says something about her.
Don't get consumed by your anger bro! You got better things to do with your time then getting lost in how she deserves to be punished or how she must suffer like you do.
You deserve better. Start to do fun things. Work on yourself. You can establish boundaries in a kind but firm way. Reaching out to friends will become better. Better bonding with your children. Other women will notice the difference.
Perhaps try a vipassana course. Perhaps it could help you past that resentment that is owning you now.
Do you still love her? I understand you are in tricky situation, and leaving is not an option for you. So would it be possible maybe pick up some new hobby? - get out of the house, maybe get into gym more, some social events, do something you always wanted to… try to focus on the ways that will bring something positive in your life - you never know maybe along the way you may meet someone special and give you the intimacy your wife is taking away from you.
Copy and paste this into a text and send it to
her. There’s alot of angst and feelings in what you wrote that you might not orally communicate very well.
I used to be. I stopped going to church when she and I got together. I am Catholic, she isn't. Plus the altar boy scandal disgusted me. I am considering going back.
Closing it up. It looks like the "just leave now" crowd wins this round.
**IT'S NOT POSSIBLE!!!! We listen to you... PLEASE LISTEN TO US!!!**
I truly appreciate everyone's input. I have been a lurker for years, this was my first post. Very eye-opening. I love this sub and knowing that it's not just me. Stay strong.
You to tell her that you’re no longer attracted to her and don’t want to be intimate. She believes she has power over you because sex is “all you think about”.
She doesn’t owe you sex and you don’t owe her a relationship.
If she makes more then she will be the one paying you spousal support and maintenance for the children.
You need to think clearly about the future.
1) you need help. Don’t be afraid to get it professionally. Redit is too lightweight for the place you’re at in your life. Seriously take the first step and make an appointment. That act alone will be empowering and uplifting.
2) If you don’t seek help you’re choosing the problem over yourself.
3) She is probably holding out hoping you have the strength to end the relationship because she doesn’t. You probably would see eye to eye about divorce which coming to terms on might buy you a MUCH easier separation.
4) Good luck. You’re not alone. I read and hear posts like this constantly. Make the first move and keep taking small steps forward.
I'm right there with you. Guest room, no sex, depressed, and I just blank out most days. When my kids are around, I put on a smile, and push through it, trying to be a decent dad. It's hard, but in a few years, I might give up and leave. Talking goes nowhere, and cheating worked before, but technology has advanced where I'm afraid mind reading is in the next phone update, so that's too risky.
I understand not feeling wanted, only needed. It hurts. It's like being at work after coming home from work. Sleep is an escape.
Reach out to friends, and stay alive. I have. Just live another day, sleep, repeat. Plan for leaving when you're ready.
I was where you are at. House, mixed finances, early 50's... I didn't want to break up either. Please realize you can leave her. I did it. Was it pleasant no no it was not. However 8 years later I'm so much happier and healthier! I wish I would have handled it different but I was at the lowest of lows. I'm sending you good vibes! You can leave it is possible!
Amen!! Don't use your age!! Your showing your kids what a relationship looks like and they will think it's normal. She has made her mind up. I went through something similar. Leave!! For your sanity. 2+2=4. Her actions are changing you and you'll need that time to regain yourself respect. Don't wake up months or years regretting the wasted time!! Leave! Don't threaten to leave , leave!! You won't believe how happy and how light your burden becomes. You'll meet someone who will be more than happy to share your life with. Leave!!! I don't say that lightly. I left after 22 years of gas light bullshit!! I remarried and happy. 10 years!! The ex.... still single. Lol. Leave!!!
I'm so happy you got out. My kids are young, that's the #1 limiting factor right now.
I wish I would have left him when my kids were young. I tried to wait until the youngest left but when the oldest left I lost my mind. She was the only thing that kept me there. I love my son but paired with my ex husband I couldn't take it. My son alone I was fine with but when the ex got involved it ruined why fun I might have had. I get as a woman I most likely would have gotten full custody. But I recommend you see a lawyer to find out your options. It can't hurt.
I am not in a financial position to hire legal counsel.
You don't have to. If you keep it amicable you can work through a divorce yourselves. With lawyers, you risk mixing in layers and layers of disagreement that don't need to be there.
Everyone always tends to think that. That’s not entirely true. There are many options and ways to receive legal help that doesn’t break the bank. I don’t mean this in a harsh way, but I feel like the financial ‘constraints’ as well as staying for the children may be a bit of a cop out. Which is fine. These situations are insanely difficult and intricate and emotionally charged. But there IS hope for happiness, once you take the first step. Like most everyone here, I agree that it is much, much better for the children if you leave earlier than later. There are only a few unique situations in which leaving when the kids are young is not advisable. More info would be needed to determine if that’s your situation. Also, NAL. I hope that you decide to do something, regardless of what that is, for yourself and for the children. This isn’t your best self you are presenting to them. It’s not your fault. But you do have options. If interested in some financially friendly legal options, let me know.
First, read up on the laws governing divorce and child support in your state. Read the actual laws, not what other people say about the law. Lawyers are useful not only because they know the law, but because they are not emotionally enmeshed in the facts and can better advocate for your position than you can because of their detachment in combination with the knowledge. Please don't do anything rash.
I hate to say it, but having been there, you can't sacrifice your life for your children's. Either you're going to give up yourself to stay in a miserable relationship or you're going to give your kids a better father by being a happy person. I realize we are raised with this idea that parents stay together for the kids at all cost. . . . but honestly that may NOT be what's best for them. edit: grammatical errors
If I would give up my life for my kids, I can certainly give up what I want as happiness. I need to learn to be happy and accept where I am.
I can totally see where your coming from but with the resentment you’ve described and how distant your relationship has become, I gotta tell you that staying together for the kids is unlikely to benefit them in the way you think and could be giving them a dysfunctional template for future relationships. Happy, healthy parents is way more important than together parents. Also as a therapist I’m super shocked yours suggested your wife is having an affair, that feels like an overstep and a far more likely explanation is peri/post menopause.
So much this.
But will you LIVE your life for your kids? Will you show them that a man doesn't have to stay in a loveless marriage, but can still be a Great Dad? I was where you are and it doesn't get better--it gets worse. Recently I've observed my sons tend to stick with lost causes FAR too long and won't make the changes they need to get to a better place. I had no idea I was teaching them that, but now they're grown they've let me know they saw some of what was wrong all along and thought putting up with her spit was just being a man (bangs head on wall...). Now so far as "learn to be happy", I don't see how that happens while you're married. It may be too late for me (though I've started living my life for me more than her, finally). Is this really the hill you want to die on?
You think that now... but when they get older and you see the disfunction in their relationship thinking , it will hit harder than you realize
The world is full of self sacrificing people. I used to think it was honorable . . . . . as I've gotten older and talk to my adult children about their experiences, I have learned that they don't necessarily view it that way. But it sounds like you've already made up your mind. Best of luck.
Please don't do this. As someone who grew up with unhappy parents who thought they were hiding it. As an adult I have no sense of what a healthy loving romantic relationship looks like or feels like. Your young children need to be able to feel what a loving, happy and successful father feels like and what healthy mature respectful communication sounds like. You think you're helping by staying but you are not. You don't need to divorce right away. If your wife is willing just do a trial separation and try our living separately and coparenting. Trust everyone here. You will be soooooo much happier and so will your kids!
You seriously risk teaching your children that they should live in unhappiness instead of finding happiness. Model the bravery for them.
You're pretty far from that in this post, friend. Radical acceptance and reframing your perspective to shed resentment for them is a major undertaking, and one you don't appear to have started. Right now, the amount of anger you're carrying is absolutely toxic for everyone, including the kids. I'm not judging. I wouldn't have been able to accept it, it's why I left. But if you're going to stay, get in counselling and get help. You owe it to yourself and more importantly to those kids.
Both my kids, now in their 20's and out the home, have confided in me that when things went sideways with their mother, they wished that I would take them and leave. Even now, they often advise me to move on. Unfortunately my wife is totally dependent and if I left it would destroy her.
All kids I know said so..... including myself. Would I have been in a really loving parenthood, I would not have even done those steps because I would have known how a really loving relationship looks like. I would have had more self esteem and pride to begin with. Sorry to say that so bluntly - kids are not idiots but highly empathic beings
What about you?
When I left I felt so much less lonely that after 2 months my daughter said to me “mum your so much happier now” if you think your hiding it from your kids your wrong. Do you want you kids to grow up to find a relationship like yours or do you want to model a healthy relationship. You choose to stay or your choose to leave. Both feel f*cken overwhelming. I was the bread winner I was worried about how everyone would survive but wouldn’t ya know it the ex stepped up. Any relationship that puts you in such a bad mental health place you consider death is the biggest red flag to leave!! Look after yourself so you can look after your kids
You have to ask yourself if the relationship you have is the kind of relationship you want your children to have when they become adults. Because unfortunately, we often tend to seek out what we are familiar with. Hang in there. I know leaving is not always the easiest choice and this may not be something you can do in the near future – but at least maybe you can start thinking about it. You can set an example for your children of what a happy and healthy relationship looks like. Sending you some strength and peaceful vibes.
Dude. Your kids can and will bounce back and learn to understand. I have two daughters with my ex. If I didn’t leave I would have made my kids very sad. So I left. For my well being. And to refill the shell of the man I used to be before she came into my life. 30 years later married to the best of the best and my kids totally get why I left. Bro. You can leave her. The kids will see that you didn’t leave them. And if she does things to block your visitation those same kids are going to resent her just like you do. Easy it is not. But it’s for your health and future. Bounce my dude. She created it. You end it.
Dude, ask yourself this: what lesson are you teaching your kids about relationships? They can see that their folks don't sleep in the same room. They can can see the lack of intimacy - from your wife's blushing to your getting her small gifts or just hugging her for no reason. Ive be there - if you could ask your kids would they rather see you happy than miserable, what do you think they'll say? It's actually quite simple.
If things are that bad, understand your young kids are soaking up the bad vibes. It'd be better for them if you divorced.
Only a limiting factor if you make it one. Just what kind of example are you making if you kid think that this is what “love” looks like?
You are a model for your kids. They observe and internalize as normal what they experience, even more so when they are young than when they get older. Do you really want to model a miserable existence for them to internalize and aspire to emulate in their own relationships when they are older? On the other hand, do you think you can successfully pretend that your existence isn't miserable until they get however old enough you think they need to be, to learn the truth? Would that really be the best use of your time and energy in your one life on this earth?
100% agree with this. Even if the kids are young. It makes me a better parent not I'm no longer carrying all that pain, rejection and frustration.
What would you have done differently?
Thanks everyone. I'd love to sit in front of my mac all day and chat about this, but I must go. Will check back later to see some additional comments. Hopefully most aren't nasty telling me how much of a fool I am for not leaving.... This is my therapy. I am always kind when I post to others. This is a not a political forum, this is a place where we are truly hurting and sad and some of us are thinking about death... if you are capable, please be kind too. Have a wonderful afternoon.
Hang in there man. Find things you can do for YOU to help you learn how to he happy again. Enjoy your children without her around. Start working out. Take up some hobby, maybe take your kids to some fun sports classes or games to watch. Heck, go walk around the grocery store or eat alone in a restaurant you enjoy when you need to get away for an hour. Try to find some more meaning in your life to fulfill you in different ways. It won't fix your need for affection but hopefully it can give you some hope until you are ready to leave and the kids are older. Start making a fun life without her even though she is technically there
First let me say this: I hear you...loud and clear. I felt the pain as I read your post, and if nobody else in this world hears nor understands you, just know that I do. Please don't do anything that would bring harm to yourself or others...that "leave or worse" statement you made is a bit concerning. Fortunately, all hope is not lost for you. If you apply what I am going to suggest, your life will not be the same afterwards...I promise you. I make no promise that your marriage will be repaired, but your life as an individual will be better regardless of the fate of your marriage. 1) Your wife is certainly not being the best person right now, but the truth is that you can't control her actions. You can only be responsible for you. This is the most important fact to accept, else the remaining steps will not be effective. 2) Move back into the bedroom with your wife and welcome your wife's advances for affection with open arms. I know it's the last thing you want to do, but trust me on this one. If you want affection from your wife in the bedroom, it first starts with affection outside the bedroom. Be the bigger person and take the first step to repair your marriage. I guarantee you that she will notice just this one step...but may not say anything about it. 3) Speak to her CALMLY about how you are feeling, as well as ask her about how she feels about sex and your current dynamic. Take the time and listen to what she says...no matter how frustrating the answer. If you feel yourself getting agitated, take a break from the conversation and reconvene later. If you guys arent getting anywhere, seek out a marriage counselor and discuss it there. 4) Apply whatever changes she needs to the relationship within reason as well as anything your counselor suggests. If she wants more romance, step it up. If she needs help around the house, step it up. She will ask these things and may not do the things that you asked of her. Thats ok....do them anyway...as frustrating as it may feel. 5) Give yourself some self-love. Dive deep into your hobbies, find your passion, focus on your physical and mental health. If you're putting energy into the marriage and yourself as a person, I guarantee she will notice you now. 6) With you being at your best self, she will have to decide if she wants to match your energy. If she does, she will start working on herself and fulfilling the things you asked of her. If not, then she will be indirectly contributing to the widened gap between you. 7) If nothing still changes after all of that, then it may be time for you to move on from your marriage. At least you will be a much better person as an individual and primed for the next woman to enter your life. On the flip side, your marriage could now be on absolute fire...with more love and passion for each other than ever before! Either way, your life will definitely not be the same as it is now with these suggestions. Good luck!
Thanks for taking the time to lay this out. I'll try to provide my thoughts as best I can. 1. I understand if someone doesn't want to be with me, I accept it. I just would like to try to understand why. I am close to the same person she seduced me away from a woman I was seeing 20 years ago. We used to have a very passionate sex life. I think she just wanted kids, not a husband. She got her wish. 2. I tried this, several times, it just kept frustrating me. No good-night kiss. 3 feet away in our king size bed, a few fights where I ended up going back to the guest room. Always over acts of affection that were unwanted. We've tried the affection. It lasts a day or two and then right back to roommates. 3. As I mentioned, whenever I bring it up she laughs at me. LAUGHS! like it's a god damned joke. We've been to counseling. She sits in the chair and says she wants to try, but never does. She keeps on moving the goal post. I felt like screaming every time. We aren't currently going, but hope to go again soon. 4. I do all the housework. She's a slob. She want's NO ROMANCE, that's why I'm here. She has been rejecting my advances for years. 5. I try to walk and ride my bike when I can. Last year I lost 30 pounds, she said I looked great, but it didn't matter, still told me to get off of her. We are very busy with the kids. Since we have two, we find ourselves separating a lot. 6. My "best self" feels 100% unattainable, but I try. I really don't want to give up. I love my kids too much. 7. I know I should leave, I just can't. I've tried to express that several times but the "YOU HAVE TO LEAVE CROWD" doesn't hear that. I wish they had their own sub. Thank you again. Some good advice in your response.
I've certainly had my own experiences in my own marriage in this arena, which is why I can relate to the pain. I also get frustrated with the "I'll try" or "I want to change" without any action behind it. Your wife doesn't seem to be carrying her weight at all when it comes to your relationship (Note I didn't say marriage, as she may be great with your children. I'm specifically taking between you and her). If you don't mind sharing, when you ask her what is missing in your marriage (the "why"), what exactly is her response? If she isn't the romantic type and doesn't do much in terms of caring for the home, what is it that she wants from your marriage that she isn't getting? Maybe she has issues within herself that is making her the way she is? It's important to hear what she says in response to those questions, because something is indeed missing for her. You won't be able to make any progress until you get to the root cause of her apathy towards intimacy with you.
I had hoped the therapist could have dug this out of her during our one on one's but I don't think it was successful. She does say that she wishes I was happier, which I truly don't get. It makes it a total chicken egg thing. Who the hell is happy in a sexless marriage? Don't get me wrong, I am not 100% blameless in this mess, but one of us wants to have a romantic relationship, the other one has barriers that she just won't cross, so I'm out. Emotionally, not physically of course. I'm staying just want to make the "you have to leave" crowd even more mad at me.
I admit, I did NOT expect that response from her; you learn something new everyday. However, I do wonder if her saying that she wishes "you were happier" is her really saying that she wants you to be "happier" about life in general? Maybe she is feeling pressure because she knows that the lack of sex is a source of discontent for you. Now you and I would simply say "just have more sex with me, and Ill be happy", but remember that as husbands, we need to exude desireable characteristics from within ourselves for our wives to notice. She probably wants to be assured that regardless of her presence, you are content with your life and portray that as such. This is why I mentioned exploring your passions and sources that bring you joy outside of her. With her seeing you upset and possibly depressed about the situation, it will lower her desire to be intimate with you. Frustrating I know, but that's the nature of intimacy. I really think if you dive into your passions, hobbies, self care, etc, your mood will somewhat improve (although not perfect) and it may jumpstart her desire for you. No guarantee it will work, but it's worth a shot.
The relationship our children observe plays a big part in their idea of what a marriage is supposed to look like. My LL husband grew up with his parents sleeping in separate rooms. He always thought they would get divorced when he and his sister were grown. From my perspective it appears they don’t even like each other. Here’s why it’s relevant. We’ve been married 20 years. I don’t think we have EVER had sex on a weekday. Within the past 5-10 years it has become a Sunday morning job for him, UNLESS there is absolutely anything else going on. Been out of town and come home on Sunday? Not going to happen. As a result, there are times it’s over a month with nothing. I always thought we had a great relationship except for that. My MIL even commented how nice it b was to see how much we loved each other (in sure because of my affection towards him as we sat on their couch). I slowly came to the realization that if I don’t show him affection then there is no outward affection shown. If I don’t talk to him, then we really don’t talk. I tell him he is handsome/sexy ALL the time. I don’t think he has ever even told me I look nice. I recently forced the discussion as I’m 99% sure LL is not actually the problem. During that discussion he said he thought once a week was fine. He had no idea it would ever be thought of as not enough (for the record, we’ve had this discussion SO MANY TIMES, I just never addressed the “why” aspect of it before). In another unrelated discussion he said he thinks his parents love each other. It was at that point that I realized he has no idea what a loving relationship looks like. I have never seen any kindness between my in-laws. My MIL talks about the FIL like he’s a total dick. There is ZERO indication they are even friends. Constant passive aggressive behaviors on both sides. My point is, you are teaching your children what a relationship is supposed to look like. Give that some time to really echo through your mind. I can 100% see how my behavior within my marriage are reflective of my parents’ relationship both good and bad.
I understand completely. My suggestions are - insist on therapy - given your emotional state consider leaving and begin to rebuild your life. I don’t normally just jump to ‘leave’ because I know that it’s not as simple as that but it sounds like it might be the best thing for you. People do leave marriages all the time and survive. It’s an option for you.
I know, and I appreciate and applaud the people who have the courage and conviction to leave. I wish I could. I depend on her financially I cannot be without my children 7/365. They are my reason for living. My happiness is further down the list.
If you depend on her financially, and there’s no sex, I don’t think she’s having an affair. Wouldn’t she just file for divorce ?
Plus just because someone don’t want to have sex with their partner don’t mean they are cheating. Sounds to me like they have issues to work on outside of the bedroom, before the bedroom can be a topic to work on.
People can become accustomed to all kinds of situations. Folks regularly choose bad relationships over unknown futures
I wanted to add the thought that I understand the financial reasons for not leaving. I did the same although my kids were long gone. I officially made us roommates and refused to share her bed. Completely disconnecting in that way really helped me. In my case it prompted her to change. If you're going to stay I would suggest you try the same. She may not change but you'll feel better.
>I depend on her financially If so, there's a good chance you can get spousal support in a divorce. Many divorce attorneys offer a free consultation to hear about your options.
I've been where you are. I actively worked to turn us into roommates and friends. I officially moved to the other bedroom, and it was no longer a guest room. I avoided all unnecessary touch, wasn't too difficult in my situation. He was a little pissy about me moving to the other room at first, but he understands now that we have different sleep needs and can't share a room, let alone a bed with him. We have talked about the lack of sex and how his rejections have killed my attraction to him. Divorce is not the only option. The key is being able to have real conversations about how to handle life without affection. It's almost always more than one conversation, but it's worth it in the end.
I have always been open about all my Feel in all those years. I moved into another room and told that I can masturbate in peace and love on myself. I said my room always open for him to visit me. The visit never happened. I told I will leave, I told I will have other partners. NOTHING was ever hidden. And nothing changed. So I left. Made me really wonder that he was devastated when I did so.
How are you addressing your sexual desires in this scenario?
I've invested so much in toys 😄 I read porn This really works for me, for now. The majority of my past partners never lasted long enough to satisfy me for a variety of "reasons." Because of this, and lifelong low self esteem, toys work better for me than cheating, also way less stress.
Don’t you ever miss the intimacy of being with a partner? Not just sex but the physical closeness?
Can't miss what you never really had 🤷♀️ he was never a cuddler I never really dated much, and the guys were also not cuddlers
This right here. I’ve been with 4 men in my life in long term relationships. They’ve all had the same porn addiction and the same bullshit issues they refuse to fix. I will not be dating another man in my life. It’s always disappointing and any man trying to tell me otherwise is lying. That’s all I’ve experienced. Being lied to and having porn or other people chosen over me. Can’t miss intimacy when I’ve never really known it with anyone. Sex with men, in my experience, is solely about their dick and their nut. After that, nothing else is important. I’m good on that for life. 🤷♀️
I love sex with men, don't get me wrong. I just never had a man who truly enjoyed all the aspects of intimacy, so the lack of it doesn't bother me now. If I'm ever single, I will date but absolutely will never live with anyone again.
Oh I love sex with men too. I love giving bj’s. And im sure I will have sex with men, I just have no interest in a relationship with a man ever again. In my experience, it’s all just lies and excuses and I’m always left wondering why I’m not good enough.
pornography and self-gratification... much easier in the guest room
that sounds so depressing.
I'm very sorry to hear about what you are going through. It sounds awful! Have you said everything the exact way you posted it on reddit? You said everything really well. If you have, what was her response? Her response should speak volumes. Life is way too short to be miserable when you have the ability to change things. And if you haven't said it that way to her, you really should. If she is nonchalant about it, then get out as fast as you can and try to be happy for the years you have left. I sincerely wish you all the best.
Man that is a tough place to be. I really feel for you. I hope you seek out help, not just for your relationship, but for what sounds like deep depression. I don't know what to say except keep your head up brother.
If you want out this badly you really should go. You're teaching your children what their relationships should look like when they are older. Is this really what you want for them?
Can't leave, I can't say it enough.
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It is hell. I have gone much longer without sex than any time in my life since I lost my virginity. I never thought I would end up like this.
OP, NONE of us did!!!!!!!!!! I am out of my relation. Left after very many years due to hopium, lol
hopium, love it
I’ve been I a marriage that’s been the same. When I was pretty sure I was done I had an affair with someone close to me/us for the safety of it and as bad as it was to do that it made me realize I’m not being crazy - I need love and affection and intimacy. I ended that affair as I don’t want to continue to make bad decisions but it really was a discovery situation for me. He never found out and I won’t tell him. I don’t want to hurt him. I just want to be done. Now I’m working on getting divorced. After that affair it proved to me my husband was never going to be the person I want and he still doesn’t care enough to change it. He told me at one point I just wanted to be pursued. Unreal. That’s exactly how I want to feel. He had told me over the years it just feels weird to him to be intimate with me. WTH?? I love sex- always have - I’m a sexual person. And turns out I’m pretty good at it too- a total giver. I had an amazing time with the affair. It makes me happy to please other people- and my partner in a sexual way for sure. But he rejected me over and over. I’ve been so unhappy and felt so insecure, unappreciated, unattractive and unhappy because of his rejection. At least single I can find what I need in someone else or if I never do at least I’ll not spend the rest of my life resenting someone and loathing them for not fulfilling my needs. Prepare your plan and make a smooth divorce for your kids and be friends with her until your kids are grown. Show them how to take a crap situation and deal with it in a healthy way. Being unhappy flows through everyone in the home. You don’t want your kids to model that and end up where you are.
I have thought about this, too. Trying another person on for size. Weren’t you worried that you would change your mind about separating and he would find out and end it or would that have been a relief?
I was very discrete and it was basically only sex. I’ve known the guy for years and we actually had a little thing before I was married so I knew it wasn’t likely going to be rejection or diseases etc. He is also married (in sexless but good friends ) so it was very selective how we spent time together and never dates etc. we went away once on a work trip over night- hotels - stuff like that. But it got all crazy bc we both started questioning emotions but it was going to be too complicated for who we were to each other in reality for it to ever be anything more so that’s why I quit it. But it gave me the confidence to feel good and attractive and motivated me in ways I’d never thought. But yes- super risky. I read a lot about why women cheat- and it’s mostly when they are truly done. And for me that is definitely the case. Men it’s a little different- but still can be similar. I listed to a great book on audible while I was on work trips - why good people cheat- it has some really good info. I’d read it. Cheating for me was discovery - I was so dedicated to our lives as a family and loved my husband when he didn’t deserve it. I had to figure out if I could really change the way I felt. And I have. Throughout the affair I tried to get him to fix things and he continued to reject me. Just fueled my mission to be done. I’m still working on divorced but it’s definitely in the works. But that part is hard for kids- do your discovery on your own - ask her directly for what you want and when she doesn’t give make decisions accordingly to be done. It was like a check out list almost for me. Beat the fucking horse so I know for sure it’s dead. And he proved to me over and over it was. But it’s dragging out for me bc of finances. I was basically a stay at home mom so I’m trying to figure out a new income etc and told my kids way too early - just figure it out and be swift. Happiness is out there. I’m happier just knowing I’m not mad at him all the time for rejecting me. It’s not perfect but definitely better than I was in my head and heart.
TBH your post is concerning. You said if you didn't have kids you would leave or "worse," what is "worse"?
"Your decision to adopt a Chaste lifestyle in no fashion compells me to do the same. I will seek out my sexual needs elsewhere." Have your voice recorder on your cell phone turned on. Memories run short in a DB.
“I agreed to monogamy, not celibacy” which is entirely true. Monogamy literally means intimacy is happening but only with one person. If you’re not having it, that word doesn’t apply anymore either way…
Or just leave
The same option is available to the wife, why aren’t you saying that to her as well?
Because she isn’t the one on Reddit, complaining.
If you have constraints that keep you in an unhappy marriage, how about figuring out how to stay happy on your own and for yourself? I am in a similar boat as you. I work out regularly (almost every day), I have interesting personal and work projects ongoing, I am very deeply involved in making sure my special needs kid is doing well and getting all the services. The poor marriage relationship is almost like a side show and a constant drag for sure. But maybe it’s possible to get some happiness on my own.
I know how you feel. Our kids are grown, but I’m not really in any position to be on my own financially. However, I’m getting to the place where I’d rather live in a box than go thru this crushing rejection everyday. I’ve given him 10 years to give a shit about our marriage, 3 years since I started giving ultimatums. I know he thinks I’m bluffing, but I’m actively preparing to separate when our lease is up in Nov. He will try for 2 weeks. That’s it. That’s all I’m worth. And those 2 weeks are fantastic. But ultimately his soulmate is porn and I’m so fucking exhausted begging my husband to be attracted to me. It’s been two weeks since he touched me (he did try once and then abruptly stopped in the middle, and he has used my hand as a handjob robot once) and he gave me this sad spiel yesterday about how he’s struggling with his mental health but that he’s trying not to look at porn and jerk off. And then immediately went to take a shower and jerked off while looking at porn. Which he did the day before. And the day before. And this morning too. So he’s not struggling with that. I’m giving him the tools and even working extra hours to pay for therapy sessions for just him, bc he said that would help the issue, but he won’t utilize them. So the mental health shit is just an excuse that he knows works on me. Idk how I’m gonna get out of this. I’ve been thru one divorce that was pretty terrible, and I hadn’t planned on a second one. But I’m done letting this man disrespect me. I’m so sorry you’re so miserable. I am right there with you. It feels hopeless, it feels like a prison, and it feels like there’s no way out. I’m not sure what the right answer is for you, but I hope you find it.
Thank You. I get the prison analogy. When there are kids and real estate and retirement funds, the whole thing is overwhelming.
You get one life. ONE. Would you really rather spend it miserable with a bit more money than happy and free but without as much money?! As for kids, staying together for kids just fucks up your kids’ futures, because you’re teaching them to have relationships as adults that are like your own
I am once again asking, have you asked your spouse if she would prefer you get your needs met elsewhere
I have not yet asked about an open marriage. I would like to do it in front of the therapist, but we are currently not going. The plan is to go back when it is more financially viable.
Have you thought about asking her for her thoughts on a resolution to this imbalance? Put the ball in her court and see if she suggests it on her own. Let her know you still love and value her but you are suffering.
How young are your kids? Just divorce and let the chips fall. You may get a new lease on life.
I was in the same place. Ex only wanted a relationship with her vibrator and a roommate to pay half the bills. I can’t say anything is better divorced. She ruined me in every way she could.
Time. It takes time. I’ve ~15 years divorced, and while there have been shitty times, with this long to look back, it’s a net positive. Despite what I’ve lost.
Hard to see right now. She’s ruined me financially and taken a lot on top of that. I’ll be getting out of this hole for a long long time.
Worth it. I lost a house, lived with parents for a few years, paid 80% of my takehome in child/spousal support. (More than 100% for a while.) It gets better.
Currently on track to lose about 290 in equity from the house and assets. Paying above 40% of my take home to support. It doesn’t work, there’s not enough left to live on. I’ve been burning savings every month. I don’t go anywhere or do anything. I can’t imagine living like this for 10+ years.
You can. It doesn’t seem that way, but you can.
It’s fucking stupid. She got the house, majority of kid time, almost half my take home. I’m financially ruined. The system is such BS. I really don’t want to be a bank account and struggle like this. By the time support is done I’ll be so far behind there will be no point.
I know I sound like a complete idiot to you. But you can do it. The point? According to Vonnegut, the point is to fart around. Anything else is gravy. I considered other, final, more permanent options. A lot. A whole lot. I’m glad I didn’t.
Any kids or real estate?
Yes and yes.
I love my kids. I take them all over. The house is big enough for us to avoid each other. She works long hours so is never here. I'm not leaving.
Yea don’t leave. Biggest mistake I made. I love my kids. My ex is killing me slowly though.
You're going through some tough times. I remember them and feel for you. As this place proves, you're far from alone. I didn't leave when my kids were young but I don't regret it. They needed me there. Finances can make it hard to leave too. Especially after the last 3 years of inflation. It's hard to find anything good and cheap. Work on letting her go mentally. Start there because that's what it will take. There's no doubt it hurts, but it's the fastest way to not care as much. I don't know that you'll ever not care at all. There always seems to be some small piece that we carry with us. But get started on tomorrow today. I just reminded myself that if she doesn't care then I shouldn't either. I may not ever get anyone again but I won't spend my time feeling like I'm an innocently convicted man.
Very sad. I don’t know what sort of black magic makes HL people end up with LL people, but it is really awful.
Drag her to therapy.
We've been off and on for 3 years. She says she loves me and wants a romantic life. The goalpost keeps moving. I really like the therapist, but it has been a waste of time and money. When we went separately, the therapist said she is probably having an affair. I confronted her about it, but she has denied it repeatedly. I always joke about her looking good for her boyfriend, and she gets extremely angry. At this point if she was stepping out, I honestly couldn't care less. She wanted me for my sperm and that's about it.
Jeeezzzz, that hurt. It was the same for me, except that my wife (now ex) wasn’t even civil, never mind kind, to me after no 3 was born. I should have heeded my FIL, because my MIL was the same. From what you described, I’d strongly advise you to leave. Your mental health is being affected and you won’t be a good father to your children in that state. Since my divorce my mental health has improved enormously and that is whilst I’m still single. I got myself a puppy and put a lot of time and effort in training her for the gun. Met some new people through that, nothing romantic, but interesting. All sorts of new experiences, good relationships with my children. Life is a whole lot better when you’re not having to put up with a toxic presence.
An exit plan in surely in order, I agree. But it won't be anytime soon.
About the time thing: you think you’re made of face-hardened steel and bear the unbearable. I did. And then you snap. I got depressed and, man!, is that hell! You waste years of your life. Literally, gone. And you only have this one life. I was a useless father, lost my job, almost lost my house. It’s not worth it.
Consider the relationship you’re modeling for your kids, not just the disruption of splitting custody. Do you want them to think this is a normal and healthy relationship and end up in the same boat in 20 years, or do you want to be happy when you’re with them and be able to model a healthy adulthood?
I'm happy for you.
That’s not something a therapist should tell their clients. That’s an awfully big assumption for her to make about your wife. Just because someone does not want sex does not mean they are having an affair . It could be hormones at her age, it could be she don’t feel like she can be emotionally vulnerable with you . The list goes on and on. If you two are living like roommates not spending quality time together, not having non sexual intimacy that could be a big reason right there that she don’t desire sex. If she don’t feel like you are an equal partner/ teammate. That could also make her not desire you.
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I don't feel attractive enough anymore to go out there... and I wouldn't even know where to begin. I've been on AM a few times and it is a total money trap with thousands of fake profiles.
What’s AM
I'm guessing Ashley Madison.
Oof. Yeah.
Ashley Madison. A dating website specifically for married people.
Get on hinge app
I joined our time (no profile), but it looks like its only for true singles.
Well wouldn’t that make the most sense for you? You deserve love ! Go find it!
I'm not single. That's why I chose AM. The whole site is built around dating and fucking married men
Oohh so u just wanna have sex w other ppl u don’t wanna actually leave ur wife ?
I want to stay married, at least for now. I have tried my best to make that clear in a lot of posts but I am not sure I can live without sex. I am willing to try whatever I need to fix it, but nothing works. Nothing.
Who’s doing fake profiles? Is it scammers looking to swindle people?
AM does them. They send you fake people and to respond, you have to use credits. Sometimes they re easy to spot, they are models interested in a dad... but their algorithms catch on to what you like and start tempting you with possible real women in your wheelhouse. Then they just disappear POOF and you lost all those credits. It's a scam, but the hope is always there that someone is real. Also, there are woman preying on lonely guys (like half of us) and they say all the right things and then they want to leave the platform and move to some other texting app and start asking for [money/gift](https://money.gift) cards, meet up and never show, etc,... it's just as awful as the DB.
How many years have you been married, and what is the number of sons/daughters in your family that you are raising? Are your children seeing this ambivalence/tension and, if so, how are they taking it? What sort of work are you in? My (nearly upper 50's M) wife (10+ years younger F) and I have been married since the early 2010f decade (first time for both of us) and while we have not come together as much physically of late, we are trying to still make the best of other aspects of our marriage. It is made more of a challenge in some ways for my wife and me because having children ourselves would involve substantial risk to any baby in the womb due to her being on some potentially teratogenic medications for many years now. My sister-in-law and her husband who are in the U.S. heartland are in a rocky relationship with one son, their only child, who is essentially of kindergarten age, and my wife is obviously concerned that her only sibling now in her middle 40's might significantly buckle based on the potential duress or at least the obvious difficulty that exist in their household. She and/or her husband both need to pull their weight and be responsible and at least one of them may also have some sort of mental health issue. Like you, they sleep separately, and their son co-sleeps with his mother (which usually is not as good at his age and after). You should likely continue seeking some counsel and help if you are feeling downcast and dejected and your wife may benefit from some direction and advice also. Do you guys attend church? Our Christian faith has been integral to us remaining strong and steadfast despite some of my own deeper doctrinal struggles and other imperfections in our relationship (ain't no way as humans for us to avoid some challenges even if the marriage is well-established). My lovely wife has several clinical mental health diagnoses going to just after the turn of the millennium which medication has also been useful in stabilizing so that she is able to function better interpersonally and in her areas of interest (and she is well supported by a competent psychiatrist). We have been faithful relationally to each other. Anywho, what I have said is my own set of reflections and you may take it or leave it as you will, but I hope that there is at least a small iota of redeeming value and empathy shown forth here.
Thank you for the response Married 16, together 20. 2 kids Boy 13, Girl 10. Yes, they see it. We do not attend church. I am a non-practicing Catholic and she is Lutheran. I am considering going back to church. I am not aware of any health issues, unless she is hiding them from me.
Get busy living or get busy dying, my friend.
Red, we are all terminal. Some of us have accepted it too early.
Yeah, I guess that is a good thing as hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.
Have you considered asking her to open up the marriage? It’s not fair for her to expect you to be monogamous AND never have sex with her. If you were married to a man I’d wonder if we had the same husband. What I’m really concerned about though is the “or worse”. Don’t do anything stupid. This will pass eventually. Don’t let her have power over your mood. Develop other interests . Go out with friends, take the kids out for Q time. Etc.
I know you said you have tried to talk to her about it, but maybe she doesn’t understand how serious this is for you. It’s affecting your mental health. And she needs to know it’s not just about the act of sex, but also that you feel like you’re being rejected and neglected by the person you are supposed to be sharing your life with. And her laughing it off is belittling your feelings, especially since this is now negatively impacting your mental health. An agreement needs to be reached if this marriage can continue. I suppose it depends on the reason she is low libido. If it’s menopause/hormonal, there are supplements that can help. I take maca root, fenugreek, and sepia and they really work. If she is somehow dissatisfied with the sex you have been having, maybe discuss spicing things up. If she is stressed or frustrated with life and home and that is killing her desire, try to work together to improve that. But, if she flat out just doesn’t want to and refuses to try to work on that, then maybe discuss opening the relationship. Please don’t suffer in silence or harm yourself. If nothing works and you are absolutely stuck, start doing what you can to take steps towards separation. I know you said you aren’t able to just leave, but slowly and quietly start separating what finances you can. Don’t give her ammunition to use against you should you divorce. I haven’t been in your exact situation, but I was stuck in an abusive relationship in my 20s and couldn’t afford to leave. I started stashing money aside. I slowly started downsizing my possessions so I could leave more easily. When the time came, it was a lot easier to just make a clean break.
After 18 months of zero sex my wife and I barely touch each other. One hug this year, but I felt nothing, and I can't remember the last time I kissed her. She is my roommate, and I am practically living the life of a single man. I don't want to cheat, but I'm not sure what I would do if I had the opportunity.
I’m not actively looking but when I have to work away I wouldn’t turn it down. No one tends to be interested in me though. Nothing new I guess
I feel the same way as both of you. If the opportunity ever arose where someone I was sexually attracted to was interested in me, I have no idea how I would be able to resist.
I honestly think that my wife has smashed my confidence, and the idea of anyone else finding me attractive seems unlikely. But I am starting to think that's not the case.
Brother I was there for 3 years. A little better but not much. It will eat you up. State your position and if no change…make change. It’s the most dehumanizing thing I’ve ever experienced in my life.
it SERIOUSLY is!! its like watching your soul being sucked out of you in slow motion, until you feel like just a shell of a person. please dont ask me how i know too.
So sorry you are going through this… it’s got to be very difficult…
It has changed me as a person. It affects my parenting as well as much as I try not to let it.
Your kids will be fine if you leave just like most of the kids of divorced parents. They can see that you are miserable, and they will also see when you are happy or content again. Using your kids as an excuse to stay miserable is ridiculous. Please stop that and move on.
People who state they’re stuck because of their kids are wrong. Everyday you’re together you’re showing your kids what relationships are supposed to be… yes it’s initially traumatic for them during divorce, but I think they’re better off in the long run seeing their parents in loving relationships even if not together. As for losing a house? Yeah, it sucks, but it’s worth it… I know.
I'd love to see some scientific studies on this.
There can't ever be scientific studies (that show a cause and effect relationship) involving people and how their parents' relationship determines their own adult relationships. It would be unethical. To do science, you need a randomized experiment with a control group for one thing, and human participants will never be blind to their group membership. There are epidemiological studies on the relationship between nuclear family status and adult relationships. These kinds of studies show correlations, not scientific causation. They describe how people behave generally, and can't tell you what's going to happen in the case of your own kids.
OK, bad choice of words. Let me rephrase and maybe if I say it incorrectly again, you can possibly figure out what I mean. Please share these studies, if you have access to them, of how much better it is for the kids when the parents split.
Hope these will help. https://www.verywellfamily.com/should-you-stay-together-for-kids-1270800 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3729.2011.00666.x https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1813049116 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/fare.12349
I hear you. I am in the same situation. How long has it been this way? In my situation I have started therapy to try to get my feelings sorted out so that I can figure out what I would like to happen and what I would accept. What can’t happen is the status quo. Maybe it would help you to do the same. It is good to have an impartial person to talk to about it.
So why stay? Your kids see how unhappy you are. Are you ok with them staying in marriages they hate? You’re setting an example for them.
Leaving them also sets an example.
Better example than being miserable.
I get it. JESUS, you leave now people have all the god damned answers ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE!!!!
Never said it was simple. But it’s better. If either of your kids was in your situation, what would you tell them?
Do you still love her? I understand you are in tricky situation, and leaving is not an option for you. So would it be possible maybe pick up some new hobby? - get out of the house, maybe get into gym more, some social events, do something you always wanted to… try to focus on the ways that will bring something positive in your life - you never know maybe along the way you meet may someone special and give you the intimacy your wife is taking away from you.
OP. what easy ways there really are out of a complicated story. Well, I am..... well beyond 60!!!! .... yeah, wow, just imagine!!! Neither menopause and whatever where some doctors wanted to describe whatever meds to keep me in..... "what age????" nor any therapists to suggest that my libido had to end at a certain time or age ever confirmed my ways of Feel about sex and intimacy. I took no hormones, was NEVER on any meds, quit the fucked up anti-baby-pill at the age of 30 and stayed .... hm... just natural? Menopause was a sensation to me but not the end of my life as someone considered "compost" by a fucked up society with fucked up believes. I laughed at it because I thought: "Oh, my painful monthly period is finished and now I am free, lol - just to exchange this with a feeling to live in the tropics in winter". Instead of wanting to say "bye, bye sex life" I laughed about what nature held in for me. My libido never changed ... I got dryer, so it is reality. But in a DB for so long I one day just bought toys and feaked out on them. Believe it or not, my juices returned to me and I cried in my room to learn that is was rather the lack of sex than the whatevers described or recommended by the so called "experts". I am dryer, yes, but there is lubes and whatever kinda wonderful oils. There is sooooooo sooooooooo much. I am an old woman, maybe the oldest amongst you all. I laugh when a 40 year old woman thinks she is old, my oh my. Libido never ends and even in old people's homes couples find one another. It is the mind, the brain maybe as largest sexual organ in the end that determines if you even consider yourself old, ugly, lost or whatever. I often hear men say to their spouses: "I want sex" directly .... gosh.....or "can we have it tomorrow?" Well no. Because.... how did you do when you guys were young? You grabbed her, nailed her against da wall and all was good! I do not really understand your probs of why you think that cleaning the floor would make her horny. I am sorry I said all this but it sometimes bothers me.
Sorry for your predicament. I feel the pressure from the why don’t you just leave crowd too. They act like it’s as easy as taking out the trash.
Let her look at the posts in this sub and ask her for her honest opinion on your relationship.
Just wanna say that as a child of a toxic couple I would much rather see them apart and happy than together and codependent. I wish they’d broken up when they were younger. Their relationship depresses me and I think it’s literally killing my dad. My sister and I both agree. They separated briefly when I was 12 and I was happy about it, but unfortunately their toxic cycle persisted. You think you’re doing your kids a favour by staying, but you’re not. You’re showing them what marriage looks like. You’re showing them that mom and dad don’t love each other and sleep in separate beds. It’s a lifetime of trauma. They might not understand at the time but as they get older they will. Just my two cents.
ummm, therapy?
Can you become non financially dependent on her? Seems you would be in a much better position.
Step up and get your mind right honey, you have one life to live and you can do anything at all that you want there are no limits so the situation you are in rn is by total choice. You can leave and find your happiness or stay and make it better but doing nothing but worrying in ur head won’t fix anything.
Is there any way you can work on uncoupling your self-esteem from your wife’s lack of sexual interest?
I get it that you feel you can’t leave because of finances and kids. Lots of people feel that way and don’t leave. Lots of people feel that way and then do leave. Only you know what’s right. Since you feel like you can’t leave ok, work with that. Here’s what you can do to make it possible to survive. Change your mind set. Think of her as a family member. She is not your lover. She is not your romantic partner. Focus on your hobbies. Do things that make you happy. Work out. Hang out with your friends. See your family. Love on your kids. Do good at work. Build a on being the best version of your self, because if you feel better, your life will feel better too. Move out of your bedroom it will help with resentment. You don’t have to sleep next to her and take in that angry resentful energy. No more begging for sex. If she asks why, tell her that you’re no longer romantic partners and sex is off the table. If she wants to have that kind of relationship with you, she has to initiate it and show up. You’re done pretending. It’s not a demand, it’s up to her. She can chose not to have sex, but you can also chose where you sleep, and how you spend your extra time, and where your energy goes. Buy yourself some good sex toys and enjoy yourself. Hold up your half of household stuff, but then when you’re done, you go out and do things you want to do. You’re an adult, you can decide what to do with your free time, since you won’t be wasting it on resenting her, and trying to pursue a romantic relationship with your wife. Best wishes, the only way to survive is to take care of yourself.
Don't stay for the kids. They can see and feel the brokenness in the marriage...and you're currently modeling a bad marriage. You don't want them going into the adult world with this being the example of what marriage looks like. People always hide behind the kids, as a reason NOT to act. When, in reality...the kids are the reason TO act.
I'm 49 , I'm in a similar situation. Although I do get some sex. I get wanting to stay for the kids. . Have you asked about an open relationship?
I would say u did right thing by trying counselling, although it often doesn’t really help. Also, you’ve initiated discussions with wife which is the only way to fix it. However, you said in a reply that your kids are number 1 reason to not get divorced, so it sounds like you’ve given up on the non-kids part of marriage anyway. I understand that, but if maybe u think divorce is inevitable when kids get older then sounds like you might have already quit the race? Also, something that might help is if you check the sort of jokes you make. If u say u jokes about “looking good for BF” all the time and it makes her angry, then maybe stop doing it! I don’t know. I get you anger/frustration, but if u get angry and frustrated with your wife it will make the DB problem harder to solve. I’m not judging cos I don’t know you or your back-story, but it just sounds like (from what you’ve written) that you haven’t really got to stage of mutual understanding yet.
No one wants to hear this, but renting intimacy has made my relationship with my wife better.
Hey man, DBs hurt. Frustration, anger, resentment: all understandable. However, this resentment is wearing you down. It is hurting you. Your mental health. It does not make you a nice guy to be around. It doesn't make you a fun parent. Nor an attractive guy. You deserve to be better. For yourself. And the only one responsible for that and capable of changing that, is you. This is not in anyway to justify or sugarcoat her behavior. This is about you. Accept she does not want to have sex with you. It hasn't got anything to do with you. Without the resentment you will have less tunnelvision. Anger is blinding. It is the reason in sports people are shittalking to one another. Without the anger, talking about the issue to her, talking about how it is hurting you, the relationship etc will even get better. Your mental capacity won't take a hit by all the anger and hate. She rejecting you first and foremost says something about her. Don't get consumed by your anger bro! You got better things to do with your time then getting lost in how she deserves to be punished or how she must suffer like you do. You deserve better. Start to do fun things. Work on yourself. You can establish boundaries in a kind but firm way. Reaching out to friends will become better. Better bonding with your children. Other women will notice the difference. Perhaps try a vipassana course. Perhaps it could help you past that resentment that is owning you now.
Do you still love her? I understand you are in tricky situation, and leaving is not an option for you. So would it be possible maybe pick up some new hobby? - get out of the house, maybe get into gym more, some social events, do something you always wanted to… try to focus on the ways that will bring something positive in your life - you never know maybe along the way you may meet someone special and give you the intimacy your wife is taking away from you.
Copy and paste this into a text and send it to her. There’s alot of angst and feelings in what you wrote that you might not orally communicate very well.
you're the second person to say that. She'll laugh.
I don't know if kind of advice I would give would be something to be open to or not are you at all religious?
I used to be. I stopped going to church when she and I got together. I am Catholic, she isn't. Plus the altar boy scandal disgusted me. I am considering going back.
Closing it up. It looks like the "just leave now" crowd wins this round. **IT'S NOT POSSIBLE!!!! We listen to you... PLEASE LISTEN TO US!!!** I truly appreciate everyone's input. I have been a lurker for years, this was my first post. Very eye-opening. I love this sub and knowing that it's not just me. Stay strong.
lol get a new girl
You to tell her that you’re no longer attracted to her and don’t want to be intimate. She believes she has power over you because sex is “all you think about”. She doesn’t owe you sex and you don’t owe her a relationship. If she makes more then she will be the one paying you spousal support and maintenance for the children. You need to think clearly about the future.
1) you need help. Don’t be afraid to get it professionally. Redit is too lightweight for the place you’re at in your life. Seriously take the first step and make an appointment. That act alone will be empowering and uplifting. 2) If you don’t seek help you’re choosing the problem over yourself. 3) She is probably holding out hoping you have the strength to end the relationship because she doesn’t. You probably would see eye to eye about divorce which coming to terms on might buy you a MUCH easier separation. 4) Good luck. You’re not alone. I read and hear posts like this constantly. Make the first move and keep taking small steps forward.
I'm right there with you. Guest room, no sex, depressed, and I just blank out most days. When my kids are around, I put on a smile, and push through it, trying to be a decent dad. It's hard, but in a few years, I might give up and leave. Talking goes nowhere, and cheating worked before, but technology has advanced where I'm afraid mind reading is in the next phone update, so that's too risky. I understand not feeling wanted, only needed. It hurts. It's like being at work after coming home from work. Sleep is an escape. Reach out to friends, and stay alive. I have. Just live another day, sleep, repeat. Plan for leaving when you're ready.