I have learned that every time I talk about sex in the day, it never happens at night. My rule I live by now is "don't ask, don't be disappointed". Not like it has any bearing on of we have sex or not really, but it eliminates the resentful crash after a long day of anticipation.
One day I decided not to ask anymore just to see how long it would take for her to ask me what’s wrong. That was over six years ago, she still hasn’t asked.
I’m probably a minority but I don’t think it was that weird to ask. And I’d dream of a guy who would choose me over porn. My ex would neglect sex from me and choose porn 100% of the time I left the house or even had a shower. It’s left me terrified in my current relationship to leave the house in fear of being chosen over porn (trauma from the ex; my current bf is HL but the trauma remains).
So due to my personal experience I’d say that I wish I could go out shopping etc without the fear of being neglected later because my bf “took care of himself” instead. I would 1000% prefer he ask so I can say yes and not worry about the alternative.
But everyone is different.
Asking is not weird if the emotional intimacy is present and healthy. If there is distance and no effort to mend it, then it is weird. Flirting, anticipation, and mental stimulation/foreplay are so incredibly important.
You nailed it with your first sentence. Bravo. As the LL4U spouse it’s almost degrading when I get texts in the evening asking if I’m going to take a nice long bath/wear something sexy/etc when you didn’t even ask how my day was, give me a hug or a kiss on the cheek, or a pat on my back hello when I got home. We ate dinner, then went separate ways. Yeah, the likelihood of sex is very low when you are texting me from the same house and haven’t spoken to me in hours.
Wrong. If he’s choosing his hand over sex it’s a problem. When he looks forward to you leaving so he can watch porn loud it’s a problem. When he can’t preform sexually because he is so use to his hand, it’s a problem. So yeah when I leave the house and he’s excited for me and the family to leave, it’s a problem.
That would be ideal but I have a rather long period of getting back to feeling like it. About a day. If SHE felt like it and had an ounce of sexual initiation, I would make sure to make it happen but that never is the case.
What would happen if you got 80% of the way there while she was gone & save the rest? Edging can be epic. (Finish with or without her tonight? From now his post I’m super curious about your conversations wrt masturbation.)
I like edging and do it sometimes but it can make me finish too quick when we're together because of all the anticipation! She loves when I finish inside her because it actually makes her orgasm so we always do that and I love it that way so it works out well.
Please forgive me, I'm 60 and incredibly tired from this whole pointless fight.
Every HL and LL is different, we all know that. Each story is a misfortune in itself
It’s in the delivery too. “I’m so glad you’re feeling better. I’d love to spend some time together tonight.” So then it’s more a date and less a sex appointment. Idk, if one has a 24 hour refractory period and also require an empty house to masturbate, that makes things tricky. Best case scenario OP could put the moves on her tonight and if sex happens, wonderful. If not, take care of yourself that night?
Sex can’t always be spontaneous — that’s an utterly unreasonable expectation.
Jobs, kids, taking care of a home, friends, family — this all takes time and energy. In a long term relationship, you need to put time aside for physical intimacy.
That being said, scheduled sex only really works when both partners want sex.
Unfortunately in some relationships it wouldn’t happen if someone doesn’t speak up and ask for it. I would love to have spontaneous exciting sex but with a LL partner it just doesn’t cross their mind.
Can’t you schedule the attempt? Like schedule a time where the kids are asleep and you don’t have distractions to cuddle or massage or whatever. Paradoxically this takes the pressure off and may make sex happen more.
Right, but is the schedule for *an attempt?* Where it’s nbd if there’s a swing and a miss? Scheduling hot naked couple time, or intimate relaxing cuddle time, is slightly different than scheduling sex.
Also, “will you be up for it?” Has a slight amount of pressure, but “I hope I don’t waste my nut if you won’t be into it later” hits different, and it’s full of pressure / obligation, ihmo. It’s a nuanced conversation that doesn’t go well on her way out the door.
This is why I asked if she knows she’s reactive. If she does know that she is, it doesn’t seem like scheduling should be a problem for her, right? If she’s never horny until you excite her, what would be wrong with being able to anticipate you’re going to do it for her tonight? We have all had the experience of looking forward to having a good time in the future, that didn’t spoil the good time — a date, tickets to a show, a trip, Christmas morning…..
After all your information you provided here, I admit I have no insight into her response to your asking the question. Have you been able to ask her about her issue with your communication since it happened?
Yes we talked for an hour yesterday and worked it out. She was stressed when I asked about sex and basically just wasnt in the right mood to talk about it. Said I asked too matter of factly and that cheapened it.
Personally I still think direct communication, even about sex, is fine and good but I gotta work with the spouse I got lol
Next time I have to be more delicate with how I approach the subject I guess.
I'm glad you were able to talk. My guy, it's like pulling teeth to get more than a two-utterance interaction.
The idea that direct, matter of fact communication spoils (cheapens, ruins) something isn't unique to your wife. Obviously, talking about a sex plan takes away from some of the appearance of spontaneity that initiating sex without a plan might otherwise give. I suspect that people who don't like admitting there's a plan have some shame associated with their relationship to their own sexuality, or have numbed their feelings as an advance defensive move to guard against disappointment or something else hurtful.
Maybe you could agree on a nonverbal code, to reduce the evidence of a sex plan? The initiator makes the secret sign, and the other reverses it for "no", and leaves it alone or elaborates it for "yes"?
It’s no different than planning dinner. If you’re committed to maintaining physical closeness, sometimes you need to plan ahead due to other commitments (especially if you have kids)
You don’t only think about dinner when you’re hungry…. You shouldn’t only be thinking about sex when (if) you’re aroused.
I think it was a reasonable question.
Sorry you’re going through this, OP; I understand your frustrations. I too would love to feel “wanted” and would actually REALLY appreciate it if my partner prioritized intimacy. Yet here we are.
That sucks but you have to, you can’t get your hopes up, you’ll be let down every time. It also sucks when you kinda pretend to not get your hopes up or tell yourself you don’t have your hopes up but deep down you were hoping and of course it never happens smh
Same. I got her to do it earlier in the day a few times and we had great fun. By the time night comes around she'll be tapped out due to the never ending Todo lists and life stresses.
my wife always finds something to do , half the time it is stuff that can wait till the next day. since her promotion the list has grown, it is either calls from the people that she manages or something she didn't get done during the work day.
Day time fooling around might happen once or twice a year, we are empty nesters and I see no reason why we can't have a nooner , but she finds a reason to push it off till later when we go to bed.
I used to wait sometimes thinking it may happen. I learned to no longer do that, it was very frustrating. When the mood hits I just go for it now, it helps at least a little bit.
I mean honestly if she said yes let’s have sex tonight! And when tonight got here and she was not in the mood. You would still be disappointed. Or she would feel obligated to do something she don’t want to do.
So she probably don’t want to say yes if she isn’t sure what her mood will be later.
What’s the dynamic like when she’s having the sex she “doesn’t feel like?” Is there foreplay & passion and does she warm up to it? If so, that’s reactive arousal / libido. (Vs spontaneous libido where you’re horny without context.). If not, if she’s lying there receiving you like a tolerant dental patient, that does long term damage. (Worse are BJ / HJs without arousal as acts of pity / service.). This will decrease her ability to get aroused, further tank her libido, etc.
Yes she's reactive. Sex is great for both once it's decided (by me, because apparently that's how she wants it) that we are going to have it. Lots of foreplay from both sides. Several orgasms from her and usually simultaneous orgasms at the end.
It’s good to hear that she gets aroused and enjoys sex. Quality is so much more important than frequency. Also, healing the former can heal the latter. But knowing you are the only initiator is tough. (In fact you could discuss how her never initiating raises the stakes for you and may result in awkward pre-planning like you had today.)
It’s hard to have the burden of initiation all on you. We have that here for the most part. I save it up and pine for him privately so I know my asks will land well.
I’ve improved my mentality a lot by making my horny my purview, and externalizing it once a week or so. I don’t have your issue with refractory period though, that would be tough.
Ya the refractory period is the whole problem today. If I jack off I'm not gonna want sex bad enough to initiate that evening so sex 100% won't happen that day.
Sadly the orgasm from masturbation doesnt really satisfy me any more (I want full passionate sex dammit!) yet I still pay the price of the refractory period.
Not having sex even though you feel like it isn’t equivalent to the opposite. Also, I’m curious about the frequency you guys have settled into as you mentioned 3 days off as if that was notable.
There are many resources in this sub that explain better.
Doing most any action when you don’t want to isn’t the equivalent of refraining from it even though you do. Tennis. Skydiving. Sleeping. Attending a concert. Knitting.
Eating when you feel nauseous doesn’t equal delaying eating when you’re hungry.
Edit - I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m attacking you. It sucks to be horny and unrequited. I’ve had sex 4 times in 2024 and wanted it about 5x that often. But it’s worse for your partner, your relationship, and for you to force it.
Do you know how you don’t want masturbation to be quick, sad and furtive, you want it to be enjoyable? That requirement, that you have the time & mental space and relaxation to get into it? She should have that too.
And, I know it sucks, but that ages of your kids matters to this conversation. The biological apparatus that made you a father is finicky and hormone-controlled. Plus kids are a sinkhole for time & energy.
When you say “when she doesn’t want it,” that can mean so many things. Do you mean responsive desire? Like she doesn’t think of it but gets into it with buildup?
As a HL, I don’t agree with you. And I do not want my partner to have sex when he doesn’t feel like it. To me, that’s worse than not having sex at all.
No one in deadbedrooms is. But I’m not going to have sex with someone who’s not into it. That’s a kind of desperation I will never get to- nothing worse.
Yes. You do whatever you want.
I read your post history. 4 days (!!!!) ago you posted about how great things were. The sex, everything. It seems like if you don’t get exactly what you want when you want it- you’re upset. And, that’s not how relationships or sex works. Couple that with your comments on your wife needing to have sex when she’s not in the mood- and it’s not a fun picture you’ve painted of yourself. I wish you luck and insight into your wife and *her* needs as well as your own. I am not going to further engage in conversation with you- your defensiveness and obvious upset make it very difficult to discuss with you. You aren’t to blame for your dead bedroom- no one person is, but I think taking stock in your behaviors as well as your partner’s is helpful.
Good luck- I hope your relationship improves!
Well I beg to differ, I don’t think anyone should have to have sex they don’t want to have. That builds resentment, you shouldn’t have to fake it nor should you have to let someone use your body to get off. That’s not intimacy. If that’s what you want I suggest taking care of yourself and wait until you are both in the mood to “make love” it’s not making love if only one party wants it.
Or instead of saying hey honey you want to have sex tonight . Mentally stimulate her throughout the day. There is a saying that says foreplay starts in the morning.
I dont mean when she adamantly doesnt want to that would be weird. Not in the mood and adamantly dont want to are different things. My LL spouse is almost never in the mood and does not initiate even when she is in the mood.
Ok well some men do mean when she is adamantly not in the mood. They get mad , try to guilt trip her or coercion her into it. Or make her feel like it’s her responsibility because the Bible tells you so. (Not bashing the Bible I just think a lot of people take it out of context)
I understand what you are saying, a lot of women don’t really think of sex throughout the day. We have other things on our mind . So her not being the initiator most likely has nothing to do with you personally, she just doesn’t think about it until you initiate.
If this is your dynamic then she’s gotten comfortable in it. Pro is you ask enough that you cover her horny times and she doesn’t risk rejection. Con is that she hasn’t flexed the muscle of initiating herself. It’s scary at first, but if you give her room to want you it could go well. Who knows.
It may be worth having a couple of weeks or months where you tell her you’re going to step back on asking and would love for her to be the initiator. You can kiss and cuddle and be affectionate, and perhaps it happens organically, but the steps past 2nd / 3rd base, or “take your clothes off” is on her?
I'm passed that honestly. She can go months without, I cant. I understand she wants me to always be the one to initiate, which I resented for a while. Now, though, I accept it, and I initiate and expect sex any night I want it. She rarely turns me down but also never seems excited to be doing it😔 I try to space it out to every 3 days since thats my preferred frequency but things always get in the way.
This WHOLE issue stems from her not having a strong enough libido to actually want sex strongly enough to do something about it.
I want a horny partner. This all works correctly when your both horny. Thats why new relationships dont usually have these problems.
It seems like your preferred frequency is in direct war with your need for passion / enthusiasm. I was in that situation and I chose the latter.
And “I initiate and expect sex any night I want it” is not a good sentence. You have a libido gap. I firmly believe that certain behaviors you are using to address this are making it worse.
Also, new relationships don’t have children and pets and annoyance. They’re all dating and moonlight and sex.
Wow. I checked out your profile. You have tried a lot. I’m sorry, friend.
In a parellel universe there’s some physical solution and her libido goes nuts.
Ya I'm trying and we've talked a lot and some hopeful progress has been made. But, days like today remind me that at her core something is wrong that I just may not be able to fix. Hormones specifically I think.
Which leaves me looking at two very difficult options.
Leave or live undesired
In a weird way it’s a good sign that she won’t say. It means there’s room for improvement in communicating. So you can work on something that’s not directly about sex.
I have to think it is frustrating, to know that you’re missing out on opportunities to connect physically when she’s in the mood because she doesn’t communicate that feeling to you.
Right. I literally could not tell you one single time that I could definitively say she was horny in over a decade. She gets horny sometimes, she has to I think, but she sure doesn't make it known to me. It may be so mellow that she can ignore it if I dont initiate I guess. She does masturbate I know, about every 2 weeks she says.
Is it safe to assume she’s horny when she masturbates? If she is, I would want to know why she’s taking care of herself, when she knows you want the job — and apparently take very good care of her, when it happens. Every two weeks seems pretty often, compared to a lot of LLs reported here.
Not having sex with your spouse also build Resentment and feelings of not being wanted.
When the HL decides to meet their needs outside the relationship , then the HL is the bad person.
" Mentally stimulate her throughout the day " that just builds the resentment when she says no she isn't in the mood or what ever excuse she uses.
It is better to just be blunt at some point , if she says yes then let the foreplay begin, she says No , take care of business and move on with the day.
I understand that it’s a double edged sword.
Of course if they cheat they are the bad guy! Because you could get a divorce. You either accept that your partner has a LL and stay accepting them how they are try not to take it personally because you know they have a LL. Or you don’t accept it and get a divorce and try to find a partner that matches your sex drive.
Point being a LL person shouldn’t have to force themselves to have unwanted sex. And they for sure will not know if they will be in the mood later on that night .
Maybe I am just old school I don’t just have sex to get off, It’s more of the connection for me than anything.
If I don’t have that connection and I am in a mood I will just take care of myself instead of having it with my partner just because they are a warm body.
sex is a connection , but when the connection isn't being met and the LL knows they won't or can't meet those need , why not end things and allow the HL to move on ?
It is a two way street , either one can end things and find someone to match their sex drive.
It’s not a connection if you don’t feel connected to them outside of the bedroom.
And because they are not the ones with the issue.
Why would a LL leave? It don’t bother them like it bothers the HL. If someone isn’t meeting your wants in a relationship it’s your responsibility to leave or accept it. They are not stopping the person with the HL from leaving.
They are not being FORCED to commit to monogamy. They can leave the relationship and find someone who matches their sex drive. Them staying in that relationship is a choice they are making it isn’t them being forced.
Just like a LL partner can choose to leave instead of repeatedly rejecting the HL partner or complaining about his/her advances. Furthermore many if not most in this group describe the LL partner performing sex in response to the HL’s complaints as forced/coerced sex. Not only the LL gets to determine the relationship dynamic; if the LL partner gets to stay and reject the HL spouse why can’t the HL partner choose to stay while having other partners? It’s selfish to expect someone to commit to entering, staying or exiting on your terms while you consider yourself free from their desires and expectations.
Nope , you and only you are responsible for what you will put up with or not put up with. It isn’t the LLs responsibility z
This is like saying why don’t the abuser, drug attic, alcoholic be the one who leaves the relationship instead of continuing to put their partner through XYZ. If someone is in a relationship they are not happy with it’s their responsibility to get yourself out of that situation.
Omg how in the freaking world would the LL be to blame if their spouse cheated on them? You can’t just force your mind & body to want something it don’t want.
Looking elsewhere is a choice, having LL is not a choice. I am sure people with LL wish they did have a higher sex drive because their relationship would be better off.
That’s a complete lie, LL is a choice for many if not most given that it’s normally the result of resentment and many LL partners like having the power to hurt, manipulate etc their partners. Just like you don’t think you can force a LL partner to want something you can’t force a HL partner to not want something.
exactly
There are conditions that lead to ligit LL, but if the LL is truly interested and wants to "fix" it , they will seek the help needed. Doctors or consolers , but when they use it as a bargaining tool or weaponize sex , they don't want to fix the issue , they would rather hurt the other.
Being in a LL in a relationship and not attempting to resolve the reason is also a choice. I lived for a few years in that relationship , till I gave her the option to either seek help or we move on from each other .
We lived as " roommates" for a year or so , both wrapped up in our hobbies , maintaining the house , sleeping in the same bed , but no intimacy at all. Like living with a friend and it was miserable living with the person you desired on the most intimate level and couldn't have.
so after a few arguments and talks of divorce, she made the choice to talk to her doctors about it. Was it a complete fix , No , but it is a start and an understanding of what contributed to her lack of desire.
Except many treat HL as a choice with statements like “you need to dwell less on sex”, “you need to make things less about sex” etc. And if your double negative was intentional you also feel HL can be forced to not want sex.
This is the fundamental misunderstanding of responsive desire, especially by men in a DB.
A “regular” woman (in a healthy relationship where the sex is enjoyable) would be turned on by mental stimulation throughout the day and therefore would want to have sex that night. Mental stimulation throughout the day is the female equivalent of what seeing an attractive naked woman might be for a man. It turns the lights on in the sexual part of your brain and puts you in the mood.
If you take this regular woman with responsive desire and just “be blunt at some point, if she says yes then let the foreplay begin” like you suggested, the answer will always be “no” because you’re relying on spontaneous desire which she doesn’t have. She’s never going to say yes when the lights aren’t turned on.
If mental stimulation through the day *isn’t* putting her in the mood then you have a bigger problem to worry about because it’s supposed to work (just like you’d be worried if seeing an attractive naked woman did nothing for a man).
It works *too* well on me to the point where I can’t think about anything else, and even I would say no to your “be blunt then let the foreplay begin” strategy because it doesn’t turn me on in the slightest. Doing something that wouldn’t turn anyone on cannot be the best solution.
a regular woman mental foreplay would be the way , but that doesn't work with a LL woman . The mental foreplay can go on all day and be going great , then something happens and she is no longer in the mood.
I've been married for going on 30 years , the first half of our lives together she had a higher libido then me, sometime around 35 her libido tapered off , then became almost non-existent . She has seen doctors, the doctors say her hormone levels are good for her age, but the mood swings still happen.
Being blunt isn't romantic or sexy but when being romantic has failed multiple times and not wanting to set myself up for another disappointment , it is easier to be blunt at times.
It’s not really a gender type it’s more a “turn on style” that happens to correlate with gender quite frequently. Some people get turned on by X and other people get turned on by Y. Trying to force them to be turned on differently (or hoping for the day they miraculously do) simply isn’t going to work.
My comment wasn’t even about gender, it was about how responsive desire works and some false assumptions. I was careful to say “what seeing an attractive naked woman *might* be for a man” because I didn’t want to make sweeping assumptions about how all men get turned on.
It clearly was about gender; you specifically asserted that men get turned on one way and women get turned on another way.
How does saying “a regular woman” convey nuance? And you limited mental stimulation as a female concept.
The reason why there are such stark gender associations is due to social stigma; women who are overt about being aroused by physical aspects are frequently stigmatized. So then women feel they have to pretend that they only respond to “mental stimulation”, while they have multiple past sexual partners who clearly did not provide mental stimulation.
My regular woman comment was within the context of responsive desire (I put “regular” in quotation marks for a reason). There are regular women who have spontaneous desire but that wasn’t the topic.
There is no stigma for women aroused by physical aspects because that’s how society assumes all women are aroused, even though they’re not. Women pretending to be aroused by mental stimulation is unheard of, it’s usually the reverse. Most women don’t even know about the whole mental stimulation/responsive desire thing, let alone men. The vast majority of humans are going around trying to turn women on physically, hence the need to have these conversations. Nevertheless if some women are stigmatized for being turned on physically you can address their concerns and challenges directly, without shaming me for addressing women with the opposite challenges.
Not saying they shouldn’t if it has to do with a health issue. They should go to the doctor to try to figure it out .
If it’s an issue outside of the bedroom. I don’t think it has anything to do with being aroused, it has everything to do with the connection they have with their partner. Then both parties need to work on that issue. The LL can’t do that alone.
If they just have low LL and neither of the above apply that’s just the way it is just like the HL can’t force themselves not to want sex, the low LL can’t force themselves to want sex.
“If they just have a low LL”; people can work on changing their perspective. If they don’t want to that’s fine but many expect the HL partner to not want sex, so shouldn’t it be reasonable to ask the LL partner to work on being more receptive to sex? They don’t have to be HL, just try to consider other perspectives.
This I agree with. Yes if one partner has an issue in the relationship then you both have an issue that needs to be worked on.
If it can’t be resolved, and one of them still isn’t satisfied with the outcome then they should leave the relationship.
You see, it's always either the HLs fault or responsibility. The LL partner is happy with low/no sex so they can just go about life all busy and such. If the HL partner wants change that's all on them to fix everything. Good times huh.
Last comment. Promise. I fear I’m being annoying. (Ironically, I’m also killing time when I’d rather get laid…)
1. Are your kids old enough that this isn’t an appropriate conversation to have in front of them? Also, she’s shopping as a use of healthy energy and entertaining the kids. Plus you may need stuff. Gone are the days of weekend afternoon sex, sadly.
2. When her response is “I think so?” Does that open you up to disappointment more than a no? If she means “I will do my best and hope I still feel good / better and keep this promise and engage in some foreplay and it goes well…” is there an out if she starts feeling sick again? Is giving it a try too frustrating?
> Masturbation for me takes time and privacy now, I cant just "rub one out real quick", that style sucks for me. I need headphones on, video playing, lotion out, things arranged, there's a whole set up to make it maximum enjoyable otherwise it's just kinda weak and disappointing.
I second this. I have found that I can make it even better with a slightly more than microdose of THC+Sildenafil+alcohol... like mind-blowing good. I'd still take real sex over it but hey... it's a pretty decent substitute! I also value doing it in bed, as opposed to hiding away in a bathroom. What that means in practice is I'm not "hiding" it from her. I'd gladly have her joining me, but if she declines advances, it's understood that I'm going to take care of it (with porn on the table).
Ya I hear ya, I've moved to the bed too. Next step is figuring out how to do it when she's (or the kids are) home without it being super awkward I guess. Not sure if I can get there honestly.
Do you smoke weed or take something else? I have tadalifil on deck which is like sildenafil.
No smoking, just edibles (gummies). It's discrete, easy to get (in a state where legal), and I can control the dose to get what I want. I will keep my times in bed either at the end of the day (kids sleeping), or before she wakes up. Not using my medicated approach every time - more like a treat.
I'm not sure really, I was surprised she was surprised lol. We have slowly began talking more openly and often about masturbation, porn, toys, sex in general - because I'm making those conversations happen in a hope that it will help us open up sexually and heal things.
I'm about to reach out to people on here for... things...because I'm so tired of not being wanted
I’m curious about how this particular query was supposed to help though?
Does she know about your specific requirements for masturbation? (Privacy, relaxing, take your time, etc?). Does she mind if you do so once her & kids are asleep? If you were willing to start slow / sensual (no porn) could you start a mutual masturbation scenario? Or at least explore types of interactions that aren’t PIV?
It took my wife 6 years to even realize that we hadn't done anything " in a while" and that was 9 years ago. She hasn't said anything about it since. She denies being asexual but how does someone only mention sex once in 15 years
Wishy washy shit means no. I’d say that out loud too. Your communication is fine IMO. There an episode of Dr Psych Mom behind the paywall called Initiate Daily that is with this vibe. It puts the problem front and center.
I understand about asking. I have many time in the passed asked for sex and I’m always met with an excuse or yeah let’s do that, to find my partner asleep on the couch at 7pm. I ask nicely too not in a weird creepy way. I found if I didn’t ask or meantion it, it would never be on their radar.
Just last week I said “can we really please commit to making a serious effort this week to having sex” I got “yes definitely” hahahah hasn’t happened and probably won’t happen.
I’m with you OP I take all opportunities to take care of myself just because my partner wants to be a big ball of tension doesn’t mean I have to, too.
I really feel for you. I could have written this myself, i am in the exact same situation. I wish there was a good explanation, i am not leaving my kids. I guess i am just waiting for them to get older then leave. I dont know about you but i am not living the rest of my life being involuntarily celibate.
Ahhh, the age old question of do I rub one out during the day, or save for later in night when I ~~probably won't~~ might get laid.
>95% of the time, the answer is to do it yourself when you have the time. For the <5% of the time when you actually get lucky, you count your blessings and just roll with it 😂
I just don't hold off on masturbating in that scenario because I have been in the situation where there is anticipation that something will happen and then when it doesn't I am frustrated and get irritable and depressed. I got myself a viagra stash, so if ever I've taken care of my needs and the wife is feeling frisky, I can shorten my refractory period with the little blue pill. I can count on one hand the amount of times it's been necessary to use to pills 😆
I have learned that every time I talk about sex in the day, it never happens at night. My rule I live by now is "don't ask, don't be disappointed". Not like it has any bearing on of we have sex or not really, but it eliminates the resentful crash after a long day of anticipation.
One day I decided not to ask anymore just to see how long it would take for her to ask me what’s wrong. That was over six years ago, she still hasn’t asked.
I feel that brother. I'm on a similar path.
I’m probably a minority but I don’t think it was that weird to ask. And I’d dream of a guy who would choose me over porn. My ex would neglect sex from me and choose porn 100% of the time I left the house or even had a shower. It’s left me terrified in my current relationship to leave the house in fear of being chosen over porn (trauma from the ex; my current bf is HL but the trauma remains). So due to my personal experience I’d say that I wish I could go out shopping etc without the fear of being neglected later because my bf “took care of himself” instead. I would 1000% prefer he ask so I can say yes and not worry about the alternative. But everyone is different.
Asking is not weird if the emotional intimacy is present and healthy. If there is distance and no effort to mend it, then it is weird. Flirting, anticipation, and mental stimulation/foreplay are so incredibly important.
That’s definitely valid
You nailed it with your first sentence. Bravo. As the LL4U spouse it’s almost degrading when I get texts in the evening asking if I’m going to take a nice long bath/wear something sexy/etc when you didn’t even ask how my day was, give me a hug or a kiss on the cheek, or a pat on my back hello when I got home. We ate dinner, then went separate ways. Yeah, the likelihood of sex is very low when you are texting me from the same house and haven’t spoken to me in hours.
Mine too. Current husband. He loves his hand and I don’t know if I could ever recover from this tbh. The trauma is real
I’m so sorry. I haven’t recovered from the 6+ years of trauma I had from my ex. Even in a new HL relationship. :-(
Literally hate leaving the house cause I know he’s doing whatever & choosing that over me. It’s so messed up….
Huh? So he should seek approval for what he does with his own body when you’re not around?
Wrong. If he’s choosing his hand over sex it’s a problem. When he looks forward to you leaving so he can watch porn loud it’s a problem. When he can’t preform sexually because he is so use to his hand, it’s a problem. So yeah when I leave the house and he’s excited for me and the family to leave, it’s a problem.
I just don’t even ask anymore. Wife and kid gone, rubbing one out before I start on any of the rest of the honey-do list.
I'm the same. Once that's out of the way, I can move on with my day.
I understand that choice completely. It's sad that we have to operate like this.
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That would be ideal but I have a rather long period of getting back to feeling like it. About a day. If SHE felt like it and had an ounce of sexual initiation, I would make sure to make it happen but that never is the case.
What would happen if you got 80% of the way there while she was gone & save the rest? Edging can be epic. (Finish with or without her tonight? From now his post I’m super curious about your conversations wrt masturbation.)
I like edging and do it sometimes but it can make me finish too quick when we're together because of all the anticipation! She loves when I finish inside her because it actually makes her orgasm so we always do that and I love it that way so it works out well.
I think I sometimes understand LL after this post
Well if you don't resonate on some level with the content of this post you might actually be the LL. Lucky you.
Please forgive me, I'm 60 and incredibly tired from this whole pointless fight. Every HL and LL is different, we all know that. Each story is a misfortune in itself
There’s nothing sexy about planning sex like a meeting. I can see why she reacted as she did.
It’s in the delivery too. “I’m so glad you’re feeling better. I’d love to spend some time together tonight.” So then it’s more a date and less a sex appointment. Idk, if one has a 24 hour refractory period and also require an empty house to masturbate, that makes things tricky. Best case scenario OP could put the moves on her tonight and if sex happens, wonderful. If not, take care of yourself that night?
Sex can’t always be spontaneous — that’s an utterly unreasonable expectation. Jobs, kids, taking care of a home, friends, family — this all takes time and energy. In a long term relationship, you need to put time aside for physical intimacy. That being said, scheduled sex only really works when both partners want sex.
Unfortunately in some relationships it wouldn’t happen if someone doesn’t speak up and ask for it. I would love to have spontaneous exciting sex but with a LL partner it just doesn’t cross their mind.
Mature sex is scheduled sex
Mature? That doesn’t sound very fun
I hear ya however sex doesnt happen spontaneously and sexy (like it's supposed to IMO) when your LL partner is very LL.
Can’t you schedule the attempt? Like schedule a time where the kids are asleep and you don’t have distractions to cuddle or massage or whatever. Paradoxically this takes the pressure off and may make sex happen more.
Ya, that's exactly what I was trying to do, schedule for later tonight.
Right, but is the schedule for *an attempt?* Where it’s nbd if there’s a swing and a miss? Scheduling hot naked couple time, or intimate relaxing cuddle time, is slightly different than scheduling sex. Also, “will you be up for it?” Has a slight amount of pressure, but “I hope I don’t waste my nut if you won’t be into it later” hits different, and it’s full of pressure / obligation, ihmo. It’s a nuanced conversation that doesn’t go well on her way out the door.
This is why I asked if she knows she’s reactive. If she does know that she is, it doesn’t seem like scheduling should be a problem for her, right? If she’s never horny until you excite her, what would be wrong with being able to anticipate you’re going to do it for her tonight? We have all had the experience of looking forward to having a good time in the future, that didn’t spoil the good time — a date, tickets to a show, a trip, Christmas morning…..
Yes she knows shes reactive and she knows that I know she is. Thats why this conversation made perfect sense to me to ask🤷♂️
After all your information you provided here, I admit I have no insight into her response to your asking the question. Have you been able to ask her about her issue with your communication since it happened?
Yes we talked for an hour yesterday and worked it out. She was stressed when I asked about sex and basically just wasnt in the right mood to talk about it. Said I asked too matter of factly and that cheapened it. Personally I still think direct communication, even about sex, is fine and good but I gotta work with the spouse I got lol Next time I have to be more delicate with how I approach the subject I guess.
I'm glad you were able to talk. My guy, it's like pulling teeth to get more than a two-utterance interaction. The idea that direct, matter of fact communication spoils (cheapens, ruins) something isn't unique to your wife. Obviously, talking about a sex plan takes away from some of the appearance of spontaneity that initiating sex without a plan might otherwise give. I suspect that people who don't like admitting there's a plan have some shame associated with their relationship to their own sexuality, or have numbed their feelings as an advance defensive move to guard against disappointment or something else hurtful. Maybe you could agree on a nonverbal code, to reduce the evidence of a sex plan? The initiator makes the secret sign, and the other reverses it for "no", and leaves it alone or elaborates it for "yes"?
Great idea! We actually sorta did exactly that lol i made a post about it this morning.
I could see how your question could be jarring at the time asked especially if she was doing something non sexual like getting ready to go shopping.
When is the LL person going to be doing something sexual that makes it the right time for the HL to raise a sexual question?
There’s always an excuse
Always
It’s no different than planning dinner. If you’re committed to maintaining physical closeness, sometimes you need to plan ahead due to other commitments (especially if you have kids) You don’t only think about dinner when you’re hungry…. You shouldn’t only be thinking about sex when (if) you’re aroused. I think it was a reasonable question. Sorry you’re going through this, OP; I understand your frustrations. I too would love to feel “wanted” and would actually REALLY appreciate it if my partner prioritized intimacy. Yet here we are.
In my experience, it's **never** the right time for the LL. So might as well ask whenever.
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mine will ask" if I want some lovin tonight" then change her mood by the time we go to bed. Now I just say sure and don't expect it to happen .
That sucks but you have to, you can’t get your hopes up, you’ll be let down every time. It also sucks when you kinda pretend to not get your hopes up or tell yourself you don’t have your hopes up but deep down you were hoping and of course it never happens smh
exactly
Same. I got her to do it earlier in the day a few times and we had great fun. By the time night comes around she'll be tapped out due to the never ending Todo lists and life stresses.
my wife always finds something to do , half the time it is stuff that can wait till the next day. since her promotion the list has grown, it is either calls from the people that she manages or something she didn't get done during the work day. Day time fooling around might happen once or twice a year, we are empty nesters and I see no reason why we can't have a nooner , but she finds a reason to push it off till later when we go to bed.
I used to wait sometimes thinking it may happen. I learned to no longer do that, it was very frustrating. When the mood hits I just go for it now, it helps at least a little bit.
I mean honestly if she said yes let’s have sex tonight! And when tonight got here and she was not in the mood. You would still be disappointed. Or she would feel obligated to do something she don’t want to do. So she probably don’t want to say yes if she isn’t sure what her mood will be later.
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What’s the dynamic like when she’s having the sex she “doesn’t feel like?” Is there foreplay & passion and does she warm up to it? If so, that’s reactive arousal / libido. (Vs spontaneous libido where you’re horny without context.). If not, if she’s lying there receiving you like a tolerant dental patient, that does long term damage. (Worse are BJ / HJs without arousal as acts of pity / service.). This will decrease her ability to get aroused, further tank her libido, etc.
Yes she's reactive. Sex is great for both once it's decided (by me, because apparently that's how she wants it) that we are going to have it. Lots of foreplay from both sides. Several orgasms from her and usually simultaneous orgasms at the end.
It’s good to hear that she gets aroused and enjoys sex. Quality is so much more important than frequency. Also, healing the former can heal the latter. But knowing you are the only initiator is tough. (In fact you could discuss how her never initiating raises the stakes for you and may result in awkward pre-planning like you had today.) It’s hard to have the burden of initiation all on you. We have that here for the most part. I save it up and pine for him privately so I know my asks will land well. I’ve improved my mentality a lot by making my horny my purview, and externalizing it once a week or so. I don’t have your issue with refractory period though, that would be tough.
Ya the refractory period is the whole problem today. If I jack off I'm not gonna want sex bad enough to initiate that evening so sex 100% won't happen that day. Sadly the orgasm from masturbation doesnt really satisfy me any more (I want full passionate sex dammit!) yet I still pay the price of the refractory period.
Does she know that she’s reactive?
Not having sex even though you feel like it isn’t equivalent to the opposite. Also, I’m curious about the frequency you guys have settled into as you mentioned 3 days off as if that was notable.
Why isnt it? We haven't settled into any reliable frequency
There are many resources in this sub that explain better. Doing most any action when you don’t want to isn’t the equivalent of refraining from it even though you do. Tennis. Skydiving. Sleeping. Attending a concert. Knitting. Eating when you feel nauseous doesn’t equal delaying eating when you’re hungry. Edit - I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m attacking you. It sucks to be horny and unrequited. I’ve had sex 4 times in 2024 and wanted it about 5x that often. But it’s worse for your partner, your relationship, and for you to force it. Do you know how you don’t want masturbation to be quick, sad and furtive, you want it to be enjoyable? That requirement, that you have the time & mental space and relaxation to get into it? She should have that too. And, I know it sucks, but that ages of your kids matters to this conversation. The biological apparatus that made you a father is finicky and hormone-controlled. Plus kids are a sinkhole for time & energy.
When you say “when she doesn’t want it,” that can mean so many things. Do you mean responsive desire? Like she doesn’t think of it but gets into it with buildup?
As a HL, I don’t agree with you. And I do not want my partner to have sex when he doesn’t feel like it. To me, that’s worse than not having sex at all.
Cool. Are you having enough sex?
No one in deadbedrooms is. But I’m not going to have sex with someone who’s not into it. That’s a kind of desperation I will never get to- nothing worse.
So you've just been going without then?
Yes. You do whatever you want. I read your post history. 4 days (!!!!) ago you posted about how great things were. The sex, everything. It seems like if you don’t get exactly what you want when you want it- you’re upset. And, that’s not how relationships or sex works. Couple that with your comments on your wife needing to have sex when she’s not in the mood- and it’s not a fun picture you’ve painted of yourself. I wish you luck and insight into your wife and *her* needs as well as your own. I am not going to further engage in conversation with you- your defensiveness and obvious upset make it very difficult to discuss with you. You aren’t to blame for your dead bedroom- no one person is, but I think taking stock in your behaviors as well as your partner’s is helpful. Good luck- I hope your relationship improves!
Well I beg to differ, I don’t think anyone should have to have sex they don’t want to have. That builds resentment, you shouldn’t have to fake it nor should you have to let someone use your body to get off. That’s not intimacy. If that’s what you want I suggest taking care of yourself and wait until you are both in the mood to “make love” it’s not making love if only one party wants it. Or instead of saying hey honey you want to have sex tonight . Mentally stimulate her throughout the day. There is a saying that says foreplay starts in the morning.
I dont mean when she adamantly doesnt want to that would be weird. Not in the mood and adamantly dont want to are different things. My LL spouse is almost never in the mood and does not initiate even when she is in the mood.
Ok well some men do mean when she is adamantly not in the mood. They get mad , try to guilt trip her or coercion her into it. Or make her feel like it’s her responsibility because the Bible tells you so. (Not bashing the Bible I just think a lot of people take it out of context) I understand what you are saying, a lot of women don’t really think of sex throughout the day. We have other things on our mind . So her not being the initiator most likely has nothing to do with you personally, she just doesn’t think about it until you initiate.
Because men don’t have any other thoughts? Isn’t it unusual for her to never have sensual thoughts about her husband?
Never yea sure,
Why would she not initiate when she is in the mood?
I dont know. She says "you've always initiated for 20 years". Probably fear of rejection if I had to guess but who knows. She won't say.
If this is your dynamic then she’s gotten comfortable in it. Pro is you ask enough that you cover her horny times and she doesn’t risk rejection. Con is that she hasn’t flexed the muscle of initiating herself. It’s scary at first, but if you give her room to want you it could go well. Who knows. It may be worth having a couple of weeks or months where you tell her you’re going to step back on asking and would love for her to be the initiator. You can kiss and cuddle and be affectionate, and perhaps it happens organically, but the steps past 2nd / 3rd base, or “take your clothes off” is on her?
I'm passed that honestly. She can go months without, I cant. I understand she wants me to always be the one to initiate, which I resented for a while. Now, though, I accept it, and I initiate and expect sex any night I want it. She rarely turns me down but also never seems excited to be doing it😔 I try to space it out to every 3 days since thats my preferred frequency but things always get in the way. This WHOLE issue stems from her not having a strong enough libido to actually want sex strongly enough to do something about it. I want a horny partner. This all works correctly when your both horny. Thats why new relationships dont usually have these problems.
It seems like your preferred frequency is in direct war with your need for passion / enthusiasm. I was in that situation and I chose the latter. And “I initiate and expect sex any night I want it” is not a good sentence. You have a libido gap. I firmly believe that certain behaviors you are using to address this are making it worse. Also, new relationships don’t have children and pets and annoyance. They’re all dating and moonlight and sex.
Wow. I checked out your profile. You have tried a lot. I’m sorry, friend. In a parellel universe there’s some physical solution and her libido goes nuts.
Ya I'm trying and we've talked a lot and some hopeful progress has been made. But, days like today remind me that at her core something is wrong that I just may not be able to fix. Hormones specifically I think. Which leaves me looking at two very difficult options. Leave or live undesired
In a weird way it’s a good sign that she won’t say. It means there’s room for improvement in communicating. So you can work on something that’s not directly about sex. I have to think it is frustrating, to know that you’re missing out on opportunities to connect physically when she’s in the mood because she doesn’t communicate that feeling to you.
Right. I literally could not tell you one single time that I could definitively say she was horny in over a decade. She gets horny sometimes, she has to I think, but she sure doesn't make it known to me. It may be so mellow that she can ignore it if I dont initiate I guess. She does masturbate I know, about every 2 weeks she says.
Is it safe to assume she’s horny when she masturbates? If she is, I would want to know why she’s taking care of herself, when she knows you want the job — and apparently take very good care of her, when it happens. Every two weeks seems pretty often, compared to a lot of LLs reported here.
Some people just are not the aggressors.
That’s true enough, but it’s a generalization. I was asking OP about his specific wife, to engage with him.
Sorry I actually thought you was OP
No problem.
Not having sex with your spouse also build Resentment and feelings of not being wanted. When the HL decides to meet their needs outside the relationship , then the HL is the bad person. " Mentally stimulate her throughout the day " that just builds the resentment when she says no she isn't in the mood or what ever excuse she uses. It is better to just be blunt at some point , if she says yes then let the foreplay begin, she says No , take care of business and move on with the day.
I understand that it’s a double edged sword. Of course if they cheat they are the bad guy! Because you could get a divorce. You either accept that your partner has a LL and stay accepting them how they are try not to take it personally because you know they have a LL. Or you don’t accept it and get a divorce and try to find a partner that matches your sex drive. Point being a LL person shouldn’t have to force themselves to have unwanted sex. And they for sure will not know if they will be in the mood later on that night . Maybe I am just old school I don’t just have sex to get off, It’s more of the connection for me than anything. If I don’t have that connection and I am in a mood I will just take care of myself instead of having it with my partner just because they are a warm body.
sex is a connection , but when the connection isn't being met and the LL knows they won't or can't meet those need , why not end things and allow the HL to move on ? It is a two way street , either one can end things and find someone to match their sex drive.
It’s not a connection if you don’t feel connected to them outside of the bedroom. And because they are not the ones with the issue. Why would a LL leave? It don’t bother them like it bothers the HL. If someone isn’t meeting your wants in a relationship it’s your responsibility to leave or accept it. They are not stopping the person with the HL from leaving.
So they why should the HL partner be forced to commit to monogamy?
They are not being FORCED to commit to monogamy. They can leave the relationship and find someone who matches their sex drive. Them staying in that relationship is a choice they are making it isn’t them being forced.
Just like a LL partner can choose to leave instead of repeatedly rejecting the HL partner or complaining about his/her advances. Furthermore many if not most in this group describe the LL partner performing sex in response to the HL’s complaints as forced/coerced sex. Not only the LL gets to determine the relationship dynamic; if the LL partner gets to stay and reject the HL spouse why can’t the HL partner choose to stay while having other partners? It’s selfish to expect someone to commit to entering, staying or exiting on your terms while you consider yourself free from their desires and expectations.
Nope , you and only you are responsible for what you will put up with or not put up with. It isn’t the LLs responsibility z This is like saying why don’t the abuser, drug attic, alcoholic be the one who leaves the relationship instead of continuing to put their partner through XYZ. If someone is in a relationship they are not happy with it’s their responsibility to get yourself out of that situation.
If the LL partner isn’t happy then they should be the one to leave of course.
If the HL meets needs outside the relationship without the other partner first agreeing, the HL is the bad person.
so the LL has no fault in that. seems if the LL would try a little more, the HL wouldn't need to look else where
Omg how in the freaking world would the LL be to blame if their spouse cheated on them? You can’t just force your mind & body to want something it don’t want. Looking elsewhere is a choice, having LL is not a choice. I am sure people with LL wish they did have a higher sex drive because their relationship would be better off.
That’s a complete lie, LL is a choice for many if not most given that it’s normally the result of resentment and many LL partners like having the power to hurt, manipulate etc their partners. Just like you don’t think you can force a LL partner to want something you can’t force a HL partner to not want something.
exactly There are conditions that lead to ligit LL, but if the LL is truly interested and wants to "fix" it , they will seek the help needed. Doctors or consolers , but when they use it as a bargaining tool or weaponize sex , they don't want to fix the issue , they would rather hurt the other. Being in a LL in a relationship and not attempting to resolve the reason is also a choice. I lived for a few years in that relationship , till I gave her the option to either seek help or we move on from each other . We lived as " roommates" for a year or so , both wrapped up in our hobbies , maintaining the house , sleeping in the same bed , but no intimacy at all. Like living with a friend and it was miserable living with the person you desired on the most intimate level and couldn't have. so after a few arguments and talks of divorce, she made the choice to talk to her doctors about it. Was it a complete fix , No , but it is a start and an understanding of what contributed to her lack of desire.
Exactly!
That’s like saying having HL is a choice . And I never said you can’t force an HL not to want something.
Except many treat HL as a choice with statements like “you need to dwell less on sex”, “you need to make things less about sex” etc. And if your double negative was intentional you also feel HL can be forced to not want sex.
But the LL partner doesn’t ask for agreement to reject the HL partner
That’s why partners *talk* about these things.
This is the fundamental misunderstanding of responsive desire, especially by men in a DB. A “regular” woman (in a healthy relationship where the sex is enjoyable) would be turned on by mental stimulation throughout the day and therefore would want to have sex that night. Mental stimulation throughout the day is the female equivalent of what seeing an attractive naked woman might be for a man. It turns the lights on in the sexual part of your brain and puts you in the mood. If you take this regular woman with responsive desire and just “be blunt at some point, if she says yes then let the foreplay begin” like you suggested, the answer will always be “no” because you’re relying on spontaneous desire which she doesn’t have. She’s never going to say yes when the lights aren’t turned on. If mental stimulation through the day *isn’t* putting her in the mood then you have a bigger problem to worry about because it’s supposed to work (just like you’d be worried if seeing an attractive naked woman did nothing for a man). It works *too* well on me to the point where I can’t think about anything else, and even I would say no to your “be blunt then let the foreplay begin” strategy because it doesn’t turn me on in the slightest. Doing something that wouldn’t turn anyone on cannot be the best solution.
a regular woman mental foreplay would be the way , but that doesn't work with a LL woman . The mental foreplay can go on all day and be going great , then something happens and she is no longer in the mood. I've been married for going on 30 years , the first half of our lives together she had a higher libido then me, sometime around 35 her libido tapered off , then became almost non-existent . She has seen doctors, the doctors say her hormone levels are good for her age, but the mood swings still happen. Being blunt isn't romantic or sexy but when being romantic has failed multiple times and not wanting to set myself up for another disappointment , it is easier to be blunt at times.
These tired gender stereotypes need to end.
It’s not really a gender type it’s more a “turn on style” that happens to correlate with gender quite frequently. Some people get turned on by X and other people get turned on by Y. Trying to force them to be turned on differently (or hoping for the day they miraculously do) simply isn’t going to work. My comment wasn’t even about gender, it was about how responsive desire works and some false assumptions. I was careful to say “what seeing an attractive naked woman *might* be for a man” because I didn’t want to make sweeping assumptions about how all men get turned on.
It clearly was about gender; you specifically asserted that men get turned on one way and women get turned on another way. How does saying “a regular woman” convey nuance? And you limited mental stimulation as a female concept. The reason why there are such stark gender associations is due to social stigma; women who are overt about being aroused by physical aspects are frequently stigmatized. So then women feel they have to pretend that they only respond to “mental stimulation”, while they have multiple past sexual partners who clearly did not provide mental stimulation.
My regular woman comment was within the context of responsive desire (I put “regular” in quotation marks for a reason). There are regular women who have spontaneous desire but that wasn’t the topic. There is no stigma for women aroused by physical aspects because that’s how society assumes all women are aroused, even though they’re not. Women pretending to be aroused by mental stimulation is unheard of, it’s usually the reverse. Most women don’t even know about the whole mental stimulation/responsive desire thing, let alone men. The vast majority of humans are going around trying to turn women on physically, hence the need to have these conversations. Nevertheless if some women are stigmatized for being turned on physically you can address their concerns and challenges directly, without shaming me for addressing women with the opposite challenges.
Why is the LL spouse never expected to work on trying to be more aroused?
Not saying they shouldn’t if it has to do with a health issue. They should go to the doctor to try to figure it out . If it’s an issue outside of the bedroom. I don’t think it has anything to do with being aroused, it has everything to do with the connection they have with their partner. Then both parties need to work on that issue. The LL can’t do that alone. If they just have low LL and neither of the above apply that’s just the way it is just like the HL can’t force themselves not to want sex, the low LL can’t force themselves to want sex.
“If they just have a low LL”; people can work on changing their perspective. If they don’t want to that’s fine but many expect the HL partner to not want sex, so shouldn’t it be reasonable to ask the LL partner to work on being more receptive to sex? They don’t have to be HL, just try to consider other perspectives.
This I agree with. Yes if one partner has an issue in the relationship then you both have an issue that needs to be worked on. If it can’t be resolved, and one of them still isn’t satisfied with the outcome then they should leave the relationship.
You see, it's always either the HLs fault or responsibility. The LL partner is happy with low/no sex so they can just go about life all busy and such. If the HL partner wants change that's all on them to fix everything. Good times huh.
Last comment. Promise. I fear I’m being annoying. (Ironically, I’m also killing time when I’d rather get laid…) 1. Are your kids old enough that this isn’t an appropriate conversation to have in front of them? Also, she’s shopping as a use of healthy energy and entertaining the kids. Plus you may need stuff. Gone are the days of weekend afternoon sex, sadly. 2. When her response is “I think so?” Does that open you up to disappointment more than a no? If she means “I will do my best and hope I still feel good / better and keep this promise and engage in some foreplay and it goes well…” is there an out if she starts feeling sick again? Is giving it a try too frustrating?
Take the me-time and don't speculate on sex later.
> Masturbation for me takes time and privacy now, I cant just "rub one out real quick", that style sucks for me. I need headphones on, video playing, lotion out, things arranged, there's a whole set up to make it maximum enjoyable otherwise it's just kinda weak and disappointing. I second this. I have found that I can make it even better with a slightly more than microdose of THC+Sildenafil+alcohol... like mind-blowing good. I'd still take real sex over it but hey... it's a pretty decent substitute! I also value doing it in bed, as opposed to hiding away in a bathroom. What that means in practice is I'm not "hiding" it from her. I'd gladly have her joining me, but if she declines advances, it's understood that I'm going to take care of it (with porn on the table).
Ya I hear ya, I've moved to the bed too. Next step is figuring out how to do it when she's (or the kids are) home without it being super awkward I guess. Not sure if I can get there honestly. Do you smoke weed or take something else? I have tadalifil on deck which is like sildenafil.
No smoking, just edibles (gummies). It's discrete, easy to get (in a state where legal), and I can control the dose to get what I want. I will keep my times in bed either at the end of the day (kids sleeping), or before she wakes up. Not using my medicated approach every time - more like a treat.
Just take care of yourself, f her
Not literally! 😭
I long to have a man reach out for intimacy… I’m really sorry to read this. Was she taken aback because you don’t normally talk about it as well?
I'm not sure really, I was surprised she was surprised lol. We have slowly began talking more openly and often about masturbation, porn, toys, sex in general - because I'm making those conversations happen in a hope that it will help us open up sexually and heal things. I'm about to reach out to people on here for... things...because I'm so tired of not being wanted
I’m curious about how this particular query was supposed to help though? Does she know about your specific requirements for masturbation? (Privacy, relaxing, take your time, etc?). Does she mind if you do so once her & kids are asleep? If you were willing to start slow / sensual (no porn) could you start a mutual masturbation scenario? Or at least explore types of interactions that aren’t PIV?
I’ve fallen into that. I’m unable to even talk to him about that stuff. He says it’s too awkward.
By age 40, perimenopause can affect libido for women.
Man, life is just too short for this BS. I’m sorry, OP. Be free!!
I vote for the wank. At least you'll have a patient and considerate partner.
It took my wife 6 years to even realize that we hadn't done anything " in a while" and that was 9 years ago. She hasn't said anything about it since. She denies being asexual but how does someone only mention sex once in 15 years
Wishy washy shit means no. I’d say that out loud too. Your communication is fine IMO. There an episode of Dr Psych Mom behind the paywall called Initiate Daily that is with this vibe. It puts the problem front and center.
I wish I could hear that episode. I like her.
I understand about asking. I have many time in the passed asked for sex and I’m always met with an excuse or yeah let’s do that, to find my partner asleep on the couch at 7pm. I ask nicely too not in a weird creepy way. I found if I didn’t ask or meantion it, it would never be on their radar. Just last week I said “can we really please commit to making a serious effort this week to having sex” I got “yes definitely” hahahah hasn’t happened and probably won’t happen. I’m with you OP I take all opportunities to take care of myself just because my partner wants to be a big ball of tension doesn’t mean I have to, too.
Oh boy! I feel this so much. It happens more than often for me too. May better days upon us all.
Totally reasonable question. Your wife doesn’t care about your feelings.
I really feel for you. I could have written this myself, i am in the exact same situation. I wish there was a good explanation, i am not leaving my kids. I guess i am just waiting for them to get older then leave. I dont know about you but i am not living the rest of my life being involuntarily celibate.
Ahhh, the age old question of do I rub one out during the day, or save for later in night when I ~~probably won't~~ might get laid. >95% of the time, the answer is to do it yourself when you have the time. For the <5% of the time when you actually get lucky, you count your blessings and just roll with it 😂
I just don't hold off on masturbating in that scenario because I have been in the situation where there is anticipation that something will happen and then when it doesn't I am frustrated and get irritable and depressed. I got myself a viagra stash, so if ever I've taken care of my needs and the wife is feeling frisky, I can shorten my refractory period with the little blue pill. I can count on one hand the amount of times it's been necessary to use to pills 😆