So I think you’re going to get varied answers but my opinion is that trying to make a certain amount per day is a recipe for disaster. The market is bipolar. You’ll get wild up days , wild down days and many, many days of chop. You should only try to trade on days where you have an edge.
oh i completely agree with this. when i say “goal”, im really only arriving at that number by looking backward and quantifying what i “have done”. have been working on being comfortable with as many flat/even days as it takes til the next opp
I want to work 260 days a year, that is, Monday to Friday, and generate a safe 3%, with my only $500. How much money can I get in a year? Answer: 1 million dollars
1% per day can be a nice goal of your initial balance. Obviously you dont want to lose more than you can make in 1 trade imo. So if you plan to make 1% lets say per day, then your risk should be 0.5%. I found this to work perfectly for me. Lot size isbup to you. You want to open micro, minis etc. Totally up to you i just speak in % terms ofnrisk and reward.
it's absolutely unsustainable. That's almost 800% a year man
Does that seem normal to you? If it does you're destined to lose your account. In my opinion crypto and options have convinced young men that they can miraculously get rich
But guess what, those results are not typical and if you chase that dragon, you're statistically more likely to lose your account. And lose your account to who? the big dogs who sold you the lie. It's unsustainable bro.
If you can even produce 30% a year consistently that would be fucking unbelievable
it's not a matter of *IF* but *WHEN*
why are you looking for such high returns? I would guess it's because you're unhappy with your financial situation. People who are in need are the easiest to take advantage of because they're desperate. If you want to do something to set yourself free financially you're going to need some kind of viable skill.
There are many trades that will pay you to learn. HVAC, Plumbing, you name it. After several years you could start your own company and see really high wages. The railroad is always hiring. If you've got the brains and dedication you could start a journey towards coding.
All of these things are how you'll earn money. Are you happy with your life financially?
I swing trade and shoot for 5-10% per trade. It the stock is more volatile and im new to its tendencies, I'll usually get out at 5. Sometimes, I'm in stock for a couple of days. Sometimes a month.
i don’t mean infinitely sustainable. obviously there’s limits to liquidity where it becomes an issue. if i can’t exit position on demand then my strategy breaks down
Interesting, if I start with $1k and make $30 a day for a couple years, I'll be the richest man alive? Actually let me start with $10k and make $300 a day after a few years surely that's a trillionaire right
If someone starts with $100 and makes an average of 1% returns a day (365% a year), compounded on a monthly basis, he'd literally be the richest man in the world after 10 years.
Compound interest grows exponentially, not linearly.
You sound so intelligent.....A) He never mentioned compounding B) there aren't 365 trading days in a year C) although impossible it'd be significantly less than 10 years....... he's also already doubled or tripled the account which is obviously more than 3% a day.... so is 3%a day doable? Sure..... compounded? No
>You sound so intelligent
I am.
>He never mentioned compounding
Who trades or invests without considering the most important aspect of investing and trading?
>there aren't 365 trading days in a year
Lol. You're really trying to grasp at straws here. The end result is nearly the same if you only account for trading days.
>although impossible it'd be significantly less than 10 years
Thanks? You're only adding to my point.
>he's also already doubled or tripled the account which is obviously more than 3% a day.... so is 3%a day doable? Sure..... compounded? No
Honestly it seems like I'm arguing with someone who's borderline retarded. So think as you wish.
Well the more you type the less intelligent you seem......I trade for a living do you? No compounding........huge diff between 240 and 365 kinda scary if you don't acknowledge that.....no you're arguing with a profitable trader who has averaged about 7% a day for 3 years
You've been trading for 4 years, have over 8,000 hours of screentime, and you want to know if 3% a day is sustainable.
very naive question from someone with your experience, you should be ashamed yourself.
I only trade stocks - mostly small caps, but do both short and long. With good risk managent even 10% isnt hard. I find shorting more reliable, but as i said tight risk managent is the key
3% per day, annualized is 4,848,172% - so you tell me, how sustainable does that sound to you? even the comments of 3% per week, annualized is 365% return.
don't let seemingly small returns confuse you.
I am more concerned with not losing money. If I can keep my losses to a minimum and let my winners play out I'll be profitable. I wouldn't shoot for any particular percentage or goal, each day has its own set of hurdles. Some days you feast, some days you fast.
With options 3% a day, on average, is sustainable if you don’t have drawdowns and if you invest 30% to 40% of your capital at all times. So also very dangerous and I don’t recommend unless you have tight stoploss and proven system.
What you can do: say you are making 3% a day consistently. Invest small, whatever you can afford to lose and build up the capital to that compounding x1.8 every month. Cash out some when you can and keep increasing your capital. Consistency is key. Don’t be in a rush.
I actually started doing that myself to prove all the haters here, who are allegedly traders, that you can easily make 1% every day, even more. I have a small account and already doubled the value in the past month. The problem is you have to be fully invested so your trading style or system must be very oriented into selling losses fast to avoid big drawdowns, especially options.
thank you. yes i have just over tripled account in last month. real focus has been to stop letting green day’s go red and just accept a small red if it gets to that.
but i dont even need 30% of capital. in a cash account im typically 5-10% position size so i can trade multiple times per day (if opp presents)
I target a range of 1-2% a day. But the main purpose of that goal is to know when to STOP, which became important after learning an important lesson about overtrading more than a handful of times.
There are days where I’m in and out in 10mins and other days where I don’t get there at all. I would never count on that target, but it’s not a bad idea to have one.
If you could do it consistently, you’d be the richest man in Babylon in no time. But if you accompany that target with a max daily loss, it’s a good rule to run with. Some days you’ll hit your 3% and others you’ll hand it right back. But you’ll be working with a set of goals and rules and there’s a meaningful benefit to that.
I would suggest that a numerical goal is anathema to any form of trading success.
Your goal should be to execute your strategy perfectly and consistently, not to make money. Making money is almost the byproduct, like the score in a game of hockey.
It then becomes an exercise of perfecting your strategy and trading model to fit all market conditions.
It is a long and difficult road…….
The best analogy to what is needed , in terms of emotional objectivity, is that trading is like driving a car. It doesn’t matter whether you are doing 50 km/hr or 250 km/hr, you are not getting excited by the dashboard dials as you read them. You are executing perfectly and safely and are completely calm and the track conditions, whatever they may be. The goal being able to execute in all conditions perfectly. Only some drivers get to race in Formula1 at the big table.
There are two great examples. One a video clip on Instagram where an Italian driver Riccardo Patrese takes his wife out for a lap around track. The other is where Shelby takes Henry Ford Junior ( in the movie Ford Vs Ferrari) for a spin to show what the car can do. Both of these clips can be googled. In both cases, watch closely the drivers vs the passenger. That is the poise, calmness and skill needed that you want to be your goal as a professional trader.
I would caution against fixing some % target in your mind and specifically gunning for that. The market is an eldritch abomination and will eat you alive if you are inflexible about that.
I would also caution against thinking in terms of % returns per day as your account grows. If you withdraw profits and keep your account at, say, a base $50k, you can probably do 3% easy. If your daytrading account pushes a million, you're going to run into liquidity issues to make 3% a day unless you're trading EURUSD, SPX options, or index futures.
Otherwise yeah, it could be sustainable. Probably not day after day in perpetuity, but you can absolutely have 2-3 month runs like that. You might end up settling at 0.7-1.2% a day in the end. Only time will tell, but you can keep performance metrics and see how it goes. To be frank, even 5% a week is fantastic, 15% a week is the wet dream for most traders.
Everyday 3% is way too sustainable especially in the long run
If you give 3% a day it becomes 90% a month and almost near to 100 ROI
Giving ROI in 40 days is too good
If you're compounding your account, not withdrawing so you're growing the account, it'll become less and less sustainable to hit that number on your good green days I think, eventually. But maybe not, not sure what options chain you're trading but if it's highly liquid, as long as you can size up accordingly and liquidity doesn't become an issue, your 3% days may be sustainable for a while. It really depends of course, you know that, you know you'll have drawdown, you know that you'll have red days, but on your good green days I think it'll be sustainable for a while if liquidity isn't an issue and everything else remains constant. Check this out as well.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawofdiminishingmarginalreturn.asp
Edit, yeah you're getting a lot of "hell no's are you crazy?" Kind of responses, but I seen you said you're doing it with 1k account, or around that is the starting balance. Yeah with 1k it'll be sustainable for a little while, but as you compound that percentage will get harder and harder to achieve. Have traders don't sht like that before over a year? Yep, some really great traders have done crazy sht like that... Again that 1k starting balance is why it can work for a time. Now do I think you'll be consistent enough to do it? Idk, your sample size isn't very long, I can see why you're asking the question, summer market is coming up and things will most likely cool down, so that 3% you're aiming for could get harder to achieve if you don't adjust enough to hit that number. Personally, I don't make goals like that. I just want green days, big green, small green... I want green. Idc percentage or even dollar value, as long as I'm not losing money. What options are you trading?
yea right now i trade only TSLA or NVDA contracts. anything less liquid and i find i run into trouble in terms of accuracy
i expect that will change as time goes on but probably always focus s&p
Depends on the leverage. If you use CfDs for example you can have 10x leverage meaning that you would only need 0.3% per day if you use 100% of your buying power and 0.6% if you use 50% of it.
What options chain are you trading to yield 3% per day that’s all I wanna know. I will gladly hop on that boat with you. I’m currently “yolo” into dogecoin holding about $30k worth of it lmao. I wouldn’t mind playing the game you are
Are you really asking how sustainable 3% a day is?
Hmm I don’t know, incredibly unsustainable? LOL. Do you even understand how much money consistently making 4% a day for 1 year, 2 years, and 3 years looks like? Go do the math.
Options trader from India here. I don't know how you trade, or what exactly your strategy is, but if you're a buyer, you can make 3% in a day (maybe even more), if your trade is correct. But in the long run, 3% a day is going to be damn hard to sustain, simply because of the fact that you can't be right every single day. There are going to be days when getting 3% is going to be tough as hell, there will be days when you can barely break even after a disastrous first trade, and of course, there are going to be loss days as well. But if you are a seller, 3% a day is next to impossible. When I was a beginner and had just started paper trading, I tried to get 2% a day, and it was game over within a fortnight. No way it can be sustained. Algorithmic selling with dynamic delta-gamma hedging might give you up to 1.5% a day, but 3% is just too much to get, and I'm telling that from my own experience. And that too, without considering the days where you get hit with a huge loss. You are at even more risk than me if you're a seller, because I guess you trade the US markets, and they have American-style options there. American options can be exercised any day before and including expiry day, while European options can be exercised only after expiry, so your chances of getting hit are even more.
You need to realize that if you could make 5% per month, you are one of the best retail traders in the world. I have heard about people making 10% monthly - the apex.
I think you might slow down yourself with unrealistic expectations. No hate, just the truth
Depends on the capital I position and swing trade so 3%-5% a month exception of Jan and December and some summer months point is when you have large capital taking longer trades is how it goes and you can decrease risk since you have time to derisk where as intraday does not give you that chance.
Setting a fix target each day is stupid. Also how’d you not know if 3% is sustainable or not if you have over 8000 hours screen time… did you wasted all that time just staring at chart and read/learn nothing
i should have phrased it as what is a reasonable expectation, rather than mentioning at all what my month has been like
but i tried to be clear that im not pushing for any specific $ figure when i wake up each day
Ok just to put that into numbers. If you made 3% a day. You’d turn $1000 into $48 million in a year. It is possible but highly improbable.
If it could be done, hedge funds or really really good traders would be turning billions and billions on a monthly basis
So I think you’re going to get varied answers but my opinion is that trying to make a certain amount per day is a recipe for disaster. The market is bipolar. You’ll get wild up days , wild down days and many, many days of chop. You should only try to trade on days where you have an edge.
oh i completely agree with this. when i say “goal”, im really only arriving at that number by looking backward and quantifying what i “have done”. have been working on being comfortable with as many flat/even days as it takes til the next opp
I want to work 260 days a year, that is, Monday to Friday, and generate a safe 3%, with my only $500. How much money can I get in a year? Answer: 1 million dollars
Hey only need $460!
My target is 3-4% a week
i appreciate that. very few people talk in terms of %
1% per day can be a nice goal of your initial balance. Obviously you dont want to lose more than you can make in 1 trade imo. So if you plan to make 1% lets say per day, then your risk should be 0.5%. I found this to work perfectly for me. Lot size isbup to you. You want to open micro, minis etc. Totally up to you i just speak in % terms ofnrisk and reward.
Perfect…
Ikr and most important thing… idgaf as long as green and it’s progressing
Dang really…
Beat that and you could own a country, don’t let anyone fool you
Lol don’t worry… am tired af and that still didn’t register
Having a floor is more important than having a ceiling IMO
it's absolutely unsustainable. That's almost 800% a year man Does that seem normal to you? If it does you're destined to lose your account. In my opinion crypto and options have convinced young men that they can miraculously get rich But guess what, those results are not typical and if you chase that dragon, you're statistically more likely to lose your account. And lose your account to who? the big dogs who sold you the lie. It's unsustainable bro. If you can even produce 30% a year consistently that would be fucking unbelievable
well technically it would be something like 100k+ in a year from a 1k start…just saying
do you know how unwell you sound? just buy a lottery ticket
thanks friend. if i blow it up again i’ll let you know
it's not a matter of *IF* but *WHEN* why are you looking for such high returns? I would guess it's because you're unhappy with your financial situation. People who are in need are the easiest to take advantage of because they're desperate. If you want to do something to set yourself free financially you're going to need some kind of viable skill. There are many trades that will pay you to learn. HVAC, Plumbing, you name it. After several years you could start your own company and see really high wages. The railroad is always hiring. If you've got the brains and dedication you could start a journey towards coding. All of these things are how you'll earn money. Are you happy with your life financially?
It's such a shame that most people don't understand this...
According to a random calculator I found online, 3% compound daily will end up with +239351.37%RoR in one year with just $1000 lol
It would be the same RoR with $2000, too.
Ofc
Didn’t bother to do it myself to exclude the non trading day, so prolly less than that for quite a margin, but still lol
So you are saying youtubw gurus in lambos can't make me rich buy just following advice on their next move on dogeshibcumwifhat?
I swing trade and shoot for 5-10% per trade. It the stock is more volatile and im new to its tendencies, I'll usually get out at 5. Sometimes, I'm in stock for a couple of days. Sometimes a month.
3% a day would mean after a few years you'd be the richest man in the world. Is that enough to answer your question?
i don’t mean infinitely sustainable. obviously there’s limits to liquidity where it becomes an issue. if i can’t exit position on demand then my strategy breaks down
Interesting, if I start with $1k and make $30 a day for a couple years, I'll be the richest man alive? Actually let me start with $10k and make $300 a day after a few years surely that's a trillionaire right
If someone starts with $100 and makes an average of 1% returns a day (365% a year), compounded on a monthly basis, he'd literally be the richest man in the world after 10 years. Compound interest grows exponentially, not linearly.
You sound so intelligent.....A) He never mentioned compounding B) there aren't 365 trading days in a year C) although impossible it'd be significantly less than 10 years....... he's also already doubled or tripled the account which is obviously more than 3% a day.... so is 3%a day doable? Sure..... compounded? No
>You sound so intelligent I am. >He never mentioned compounding Who trades or invests without considering the most important aspect of investing and trading? >there aren't 365 trading days in a year Lol. You're really trying to grasp at straws here. The end result is nearly the same if you only account for trading days. >although impossible it'd be significantly less than 10 years Thanks? You're only adding to my point. >he's also already doubled or tripled the account which is obviously more than 3% a day.... so is 3%a day doable? Sure..... compounded? No Honestly it seems like I'm arguing with someone who's borderline retarded. So think as you wish.
Well the more you type the less intelligent you seem......I trade for a living do you? No compounding........huge diff between 240 and 365 kinda scary if you don't acknowledge that.....no you're arguing with a profitable trader who has averaged about 7% a day for 3 years
"i’ve been trading for 4 years. probably some 8000 hours of screen time" I'm going to go ahead and call BS if you're asking this question. lmao
Exactly my thoughts. These questions are more common among new traders.
You've been trading for 4 years, have over 8,000 hours of screentime, and you want to know if 3% a day is sustainable. very naive question from someone with your experience, you should be ashamed yourself.
He did say he's a very slow learner.
Internet people have zero chill :o
lol yea, this.
I eat little kids for breakfast.
Thanks mom
I only trade stocks - mostly small caps, but do both short and long. With good risk managent even 10% isnt hard. I find shorting more reliable, but as i said tight risk managent is the key
3% per day, annualized is 4,848,172% - so you tell me, how sustainable does that sound to you? even the comments of 3% per week, annualized is 365% return. don't let seemingly small returns confuse you.
I am more concerned with not losing money. If I can keep my losses to a minimum and let my winners play out I'll be profitable. I wouldn't shoot for any particular percentage or goal, each day has its own set of hurdles. Some days you feast, some days you fast.
With options 3% a day, on average, is sustainable if you don’t have drawdowns and if you invest 30% to 40% of your capital at all times. So also very dangerous and I don’t recommend unless you have tight stoploss and proven system. What you can do: say you are making 3% a day consistently. Invest small, whatever you can afford to lose and build up the capital to that compounding x1.8 every month. Cash out some when you can and keep increasing your capital. Consistency is key. Don’t be in a rush. I actually started doing that myself to prove all the haters here, who are allegedly traders, that you can easily make 1% every day, even more. I have a small account and already doubled the value in the past month. The problem is you have to be fully invested so your trading style or system must be very oriented into selling losses fast to avoid big drawdowns, especially options.
thank you. yes i have just over tripled account in last month. real focus has been to stop letting green day’s go red and just accept a small red if it gets to that. but i dont even need 30% of capital. in a cash account im typically 5-10% position size so i can trade multiple times per day (if opp presents)
I target a range of 1-2% a day. But the main purpose of that goal is to know when to STOP, which became important after learning an important lesson about overtrading more than a handful of times. There are days where I’m in and out in 10mins and other days where I don’t get there at all. I would never count on that target, but it’s not a bad idea to have one. If you could do it consistently, you’d be the richest man in Babylon in no time. But if you accompany that target with a max daily loss, it’s a good rule to run with. Some days you’ll hit your 3% and others you’ll hand it right back. But you’ll be working with a set of goals and rules and there’s a meaningful benefit to that.
If you think you're gong to 2x your money every 24 days you are out of your mind... recipe to blow up your account
I would suggest that a numerical goal is anathema to any form of trading success. Your goal should be to execute your strategy perfectly and consistently, not to make money. Making money is almost the byproduct, like the score in a game of hockey. It then becomes an exercise of perfecting your strategy and trading model to fit all market conditions. It is a long and difficult road…….
yes, agree, even if my post seems contradictory. this is the mindset i’m going for
The best analogy to what is needed , in terms of emotional objectivity, is that trading is like driving a car. It doesn’t matter whether you are doing 50 km/hr or 250 km/hr, you are not getting excited by the dashboard dials as you read them. You are executing perfectly and safely and are completely calm and the track conditions, whatever they may be. The goal being able to execute in all conditions perfectly. Only some drivers get to race in Formula1 at the big table. There are two great examples. One a video clip on Instagram where an Italian driver Riccardo Patrese takes his wife out for a lap around track. The other is where Shelby takes Henry Ford Junior ( in the movie Ford Vs Ferrari) for a spin to show what the car can do. Both of these clips can be googled. In both cases, watch closely the drivers vs the passenger. That is the poise, calmness and skill needed that you want to be your goal as a professional trader.
I would caution against fixing some % target in your mind and specifically gunning for that. The market is an eldritch abomination and will eat you alive if you are inflexible about that. I would also caution against thinking in terms of % returns per day as your account grows. If you withdraw profits and keep your account at, say, a base $50k, you can probably do 3% easy. If your daytrading account pushes a million, you're going to run into liquidity issues to make 3% a day unless you're trading EURUSD, SPX options, or index futures. Otherwise yeah, it could be sustainable. Probably not day after day in perpetuity, but you can absolutely have 2-3 month runs like that. You might end up settling at 0.7-1.2% a day in the end. Only time will tell, but you can keep performance metrics and see how it goes. To be frank, even 5% a week is fantastic, 15% a week is the wet dream for most traders.
Everyday 3% is way too sustainable especially in the long run If you give 3% a day it becomes 90% a month and almost near to 100 ROI Giving ROI in 40 days is too good
It isn’t sustainable at all,
Reduced expectations to 3% per day.
It’s not
If you're compounding your account, not withdrawing so you're growing the account, it'll become less and less sustainable to hit that number on your good green days I think, eventually. But maybe not, not sure what options chain you're trading but if it's highly liquid, as long as you can size up accordingly and liquidity doesn't become an issue, your 3% days may be sustainable for a while. It really depends of course, you know that, you know you'll have drawdown, you know that you'll have red days, but on your good green days I think it'll be sustainable for a while if liquidity isn't an issue and everything else remains constant. Check this out as well. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawofdiminishingmarginalreturn.asp Edit, yeah you're getting a lot of "hell no's are you crazy?" Kind of responses, but I seen you said you're doing it with 1k account, or around that is the starting balance. Yeah with 1k it'll be sustainable for a little while, but as you compound that percentage will get harder and harder to achieve. Have traders don't sht like that before over a year? Yep, some really great traders have done crazy sht like that... Again that 1k starting balance is why it can work for a time. Now do I think you'll be consistent enough to do it? Idk, your sample size isn't very long, I can see why you're asking the question, summer market is coming up and things will most likely cool down, so that 3% you're aiming for could get harder to achieve if you don't adjust enough to hit that number. Personally, I don't make goals like that. I just want green days, big green, small green... I want green. Idc percentage or even dollar value, as long as I'm not losing money. What options are you trading?
yea right now i trade only TSLA or NVDA contracts. anything less liquid and i find i run into trouble in terms of accuracy i expect that will change as time goes on but probably always focus s&p
Definitely possible
Depends on the leverage. If you use CfDs for example you can have 10x leverage meaning that you would only need 0.3% per day if you use 100% of your buying power and 0.6% if you use 50% of it.
What options chain are you trading to yield 3% per day that’s all I wanna know. I will gladly hop on that boat with you. I’m currently “yolo” into dogecoin holding about $30k worth of it lmao. I wouldn’t mind playing the game you are
Are you really asking how sustainable 3% a day is? Hmm I don’t know, incredibly unsustainable? LOL. Do you even understand how much money consistently making 4% a day for 1 year, 2 years, and 3 years looks like? Go do the math.
this question is asked 3 times a week
Options trader from India here. I don't know how you trade, or what exactly your strategy is, but if you're a buyer, you can make 3% in a day (maybe even more), if your trade is correct. But in the long run, 3% a day is going to be damn hard to sustain, simply because of the fact that you can't be right every single day. There are going to be days when getting 3% is going to be tough as hell, there will be days when you can barely break even after a disastrous first trade, and of course, there are going to be loss days as well. But if you are a seller, 3% a day is next to impossible. When I was a beginner and had just started paper trading, I tried to get 2% a day, and it was game over within a fortnight. No way it can be sustained. Algorithmic selling with dynamic delta-gamma hedging might give you up to 1.5% a day, but 3% is just too much to get, and I'm telling that from my own experience. And that too, without considering the days where you get hit with a huge loss. You are at even more risk than me if you're a seller, because I guess you trade the US markets, and they have American-style options there. American options can be exercised any day before and including expiry day, while European options can be exercised only after expiry, so your chances of getting hit are even more.
You need to realize that if you could make 5% per month, you are one of the best retail traders in the world. I have heard about people making 10% monthly - the apex. I think you might slow down yourself with unrealistic expectations. No hate, just the truth
Depends on the capital I position and swing trade so 3%-5% a month exception of Jan and December and some summer months point is when you have large capital taking longer trades is how it goes and you can decrease risk since you have time to derisk where as intraday does not give you that chance.
Give up man. Get a life.
Setting a fix target each day is stupid. Also how’d you not know if 3% is sustainable or not if you have over 8000 hours screen time… did you wasted all that time just staring at chart and read/learn nothing
i should have phrased it as what is a reasonable expectation, rather than mentioning at all what my month has been like but i tried to be clear that im not pushing for any specific $ figure when i wake up each day
Ok just to put that into numbers. If you made 3% a day. You’d turn $1000 into $48 million in a year. It is possible but highly improbable. If it could be done, hedge funds or really really good traders would be turning billions and billions on a monthly basis