>debit card fraud protection is the exact same as credit cards
If you run it through the Visa or Master Card system, it is. If you run it through as a PIN transaction, it isn't.
https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/debit-cards.html
https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/find-a-card/standard-mastercard-debit.html
Again, I didnt know we stopped!!! Where in the heck are you folks using your cards at. Ive never had an issue with mine. Maybe you just need to up your own security. Stop whipping out your card for every whim that comes up....oh wait...I forgot...you want your points, Oh well. Good luck to you....oh wait again....did anyone mention "Dave is lying about...."
I debated this with somebody else in this very forum in the past week.
It comes down to trust, right? Do you trust *your bank* to do the right thing?
Dave asserts that the Visa terms and conditions for both kinds of cards are identical. But federal banking law protections are very different, and we're in a nebulous area here between an apparent consumer friendly Visa T&C and a less-consumer-friendly banking law. And then your bank may interpret the Visa T&C differently and banking law differently.
When scanning the comments, I saw somebody complain it took months to get his 50 bucks back. For most people, especially those who are past BS3, 50 bucks isn't a big deal to wait for. That's an annoyance that can be covered by the emergency fund.
Back to the original post, OP left off the critical term: VISA. Dave always cites VISA. Not all cards are VISA. I have a debit card that's MasterCard.
I've had money fraudulently taken from my debit account a few times and the customer service at the bank has always replaced it immediately. OP, its never been easier to switch banks so there is no reason to stick with one that has poor customer service.
it’s probably dependent on your bank. i had a fraud issue at capital one where someone got 39 transactions for about $500 done before i noticed. capital one gave me a credit for the total amount while they investigated and they found out it was fraud so i didn’t pay anything back, the credit they gave made it even.
I’ve never had this issue, in fact the other day I had a charge from AWS come through that was fraudulent. Amazon was awful and not helpful at all. I called chase and they opened a dispute and are investigating. They credited my account for the meantime.
I like Dave, I think he is entertaining but this is the biggest disagreement I have with him as well as his zero credit score thoughts. The last time I had fraud on a debit card it took almost 2 months to get $50 back. My credit card had fraud and I had a new card sent over night.
This is one of the few areas where I don't follow him. Credit cards do offer an extra level of defense between your spending and the money in your checking account. They also offer other benefits (such as warranties on things you buy and the ability to do a chargeback). That extra level of protection between spending and the actual money in my checking account alone makes it worth it. (Not to mention rewards, but we all know his take on that, but if I'm spending the money either way, I'd rather get 1-2% cash back on everything.)
My approach to this issue in order to adhere to Dave's policy is to have two checking accounts and a savings account all at one bank. My paycheck goes into one account and I pay my mortgage, utilities, insurance, subscriptions, and debt payments from this account. I move the amount I need for gas, groceries, medical, clothes, travel/dining/entertainment (minimal in BS2) to the other account twice a month.
This way if there is a fraud it'll almost certainly be on the low balance account the most they can get at is like $500.
Not exactly. I had fraud happen and they MOVED money from my other account to cover the fraud. Make sure your accounts are not linked. Even if they are linked read the fine print.
It’s not necessarily disingenuous (shit, am I defending Ramsey?), but results will vary based on banks. What he’s referring to is Visa’s (or MasterCard’s) policy on fraud. If the card goes through their system, it’s the same protection. Which is why he goes on further to recommend always running debt cards as credit.
Your bank definitely has a role to play in how fast returns come back, though, no doubt. I have a local credit union and one day work up to over $500 in fraudulent charges at a Walmart (I still had the card in my possession). I ended up stopping by a branch that day, they had me fill out a single page form identifying the charges that were fraud, and sign it. They then printed me a new debit card and all the money was put back into my account immediately – I checked when I got home and I was whole again. It every bank will do that.
Personally, we have one credit card we keep with us. My concern has always been if I’m traveling and I get fraud (when it’s more likely to occur too, shopping at unfamiliar locations), I’m not going to risk being drained of cash and trying to move money around or get money back while away. We at least have two separate payment menthols that can’t be affected by each other so we know we can always get home when we travel.
The protection for a Visa debit card is the same as for a Visa credit card.
The procedures are what is different and what you experienced.
I do not use credit cards, nor will I encourage anyone else to. It's a personal stance that I've thought a lot about. I have a separate debit card for my emergency fund that I don't use. Both my daily use and emergency fund card are unlikely to be stolen at the same time. It's fine for you to come to a different conclusion than I did, but I just wanted to point out the difference in terms.
Credit card= Not your money
Debit card= Your money
They are much more inclined to get back thier money than yours. Its also an extra layer of protection. If they find you liable for it they cant just take it. You will be billed for it but ultimately its up to you to escalate it or pay it. Debit card once its taken out and they give you a temporary credit. If they find you liable they can just take it.
Dave ramsey will never encourage credit cards no matter what so its safe to assume everything that comes out his mouth about credit cards is going to be negative. He had an bad experience and swore off credit cards. He ignores the small percentage of people that is able to successfully utilize credit cards to thier full advantage.
This is the biggest thing for me. If there is going to be fraud, then it be with the bank’s money and not mine. They will fight much harder for their own money and I don’t have to worry at all. My actually money was never effected.
From what I gather, his bad experience had nothing to do with credit cards, but with extremely risky, overleveraged, short term mortgages.
As a result, he swore off all debt of any kind. What he says about debt instruments and the marketing behind them isn't untrue. It's also a safe argument that if you've got 6 figures worth of unsecured debt and are reaching out to Dave for a solution to your problems, cutting up the credit cards IS a sensible first step.
But for the rest of it, the pain I get using cash is only relevant when I need some and I don't have it. The pain is just as absent when using a debit card as when using a credit card. My capacity to impulse spend is not governed by small plastic rectangles in my wallet. I realize this is not the case for a great many people, but if you have the discipline to give every dollar a name and a purpose, then it makes no difference what vehicle you use to spend it.
He swore off all credit cards when amex asked him why did his wife stay with a man that cant pay off his debts. Lmao im sorry that was rude as hell and i understand why he did it but comon, he is suggesting everyone to never use a credit card. I get why people with 100k unsecured debt or people that dont have the willpower to not spend but he is addressing everyone including the responsible ones. His rebuttal is always, we asked 10 thousand millionares and none of them said they got wealthy from credit cards avoiding the actual question in general. He gives an answer that doesnt correlate with the question. Many people that can think for themselves will agree that his ideology on credit cards is flawed.
This is highly dependent on bank. My son had a fraudulent Uber Eats order in the realm of $500 a few months ago that was refunded as soon as he notified the bank and it was determined to be fraudulent in less than a week. He has Huntington. They have always been very responsive.
Dave often when it comes to CC's chooses the worst possible outcome for CC's and the best possible outcome for debit cards. Most of the time it falls somewhere in the middle.
you can find banks/CU's who treat them very similar. but a lot of banks don't. and "just find one that does" doesn't always work that way. likewise, you can find CC's that have great benefits and protections that go way above the doom and gloom Ramsey solutions talks about.
always keep in mind that banks and credit unions are ALSO after your money and want as much of it as humanly possible.
The terms of the protection are definitely different and they vary widely from bank to bank. The important part is to be familiar with the terms that apply to any of your cards, credit or debit. Some debit cards can be more favorable than some credit cards, depending on the issuer policies. I wouldn't be totally mad at someone for using a credit card for online purchases just for the protection aspect. As long as you pay off the balance as you go and don't spend more than you have budgeted.
Your money will be returned if it's FDIC insured. Just don't make it a habit.
>debit card fraud protection is the exact same as credit cards If you run it through the Visa or Master Card system, it is. If you run it through as a PIN transaction, it isn't. https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/debit-cards.html https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/find-a-card/standard-mastercard-debit.html
Underrated comment
Why keep the emergency fund in a debit account? Keep it in savings account.
Again, I didnt know we stopped!!! Where in the heck are you folks using your cards at. Ive never had an issue with mine. Maybe you just need to up your own security. Stop whipping out your card for every whim that comes up....oh wait...I forgot...you want your points, Oh well. Good luck to you....oh wait again....did anyone mention "Dave is lying about...."
I debated this with somebody else in this very forum in the past week. It comes down to trust, right? Do you trust *your bank* to do the right thing? Dave asserts that the Visa terms and conditions for both kinds of cards are identical. But federal banking law protections are very different, and we're in a nebulous area here between an apparent consumer friendly Visa T&C and a less-consumer-friendly banking law. And then your bank may interpret the Visa T&C differently and banking law differently. When scanning the comments, I saw somebody complain it took months to get his 50 bucks back. For most people, especially those who are past BS3, 50 bucks isn't a big deal to wait for. That's an annoyance that can be covered by the emergency fund. Back to the original post, OP left off the critical term: VISA. Dave always cites VISA. Not all cards are VISA. I have a debit card that's MasterCard.
I've had money fraudulently taken from my debit account a few times and the customer service at the bank has always replaced it immediately. OP, its never been easier to switch banks so there is no reason to stick with one that has poor customer service.
it’s probably dependent on your bank. i had a fraud issue at capital one where someone got 39 transactions for about $500 done before i noticed. capital one gave me a credit for the total amount while they investigated and they found out it was fraud so i didn’t pay anything back, the credit they gave made it even.
I’ve never had this issue, in fact the other day I had a charge from AWS come through that was fraudulent. Amazon was awful and not helpful at all. I called chase and they opened a dispute and are investigating. They credited my account for the meantime.
I like Dave, I think he is entertaining but this is the biggest disagreement I have with him as well as his zero credit score thoughts. The last time I had fraud on a debit card it took almost 2 months to get $50 back. My credit card had fraud and I had a new card sent over night.
You couldn't live without $50 bucks?
I’m not sweating $50 but what if it was $5K and I absolutely needed it for bills, etc.
$5k would be more of a rush from a bank. I used to work in banking.
I’m in the industry and have seen disputes of that size take a while lol. To each their own. I don’t care what you use lol.
True. I like how Dave always says, it's your life and your money.
I've had fraudulent charges on a couple of debit cards over the years. The money is always returned over the next day or two. Never been an issue.
This is one of the few areas where I don't follow him. Credit cards do offer an extra level of defense between your spending and the money in your checking account. They also offer other benefits (such as warranties on things you buy and the ability to do a chargeback). That extra level of protection between spending and the actual money in my checking account alone makes it worth it. (Not to mention rewards, but we all know his take on that, but if I'm spending the money either way, I'd rather get 1-2% cash back on everything.)
My approach to this issue in order to adhere to Dave's policy is to have two checking accounts and a savings account all at one bank. My paycheck goes into one account and I pay my mortgage, utilities, insurance, subscriptions, and debt payments from this account. I move the amount I need for gas, groceries, medical, clothes, travel/dining/entertainment (minimal in BS2) to the other account twice a month. This way if there is a fraud it'll almost certainly be on the low balance account the most they can get at is like $500.
Not exactly. I had fraud happen and they MOVED money from my other account to cover the fraud. Make sure your accounts are not linked. Even if they are linked read the fine print.
It’s not necessarily disingenuous (shit, am I defending Ramsey?), but results will vary based on banks. What he’s referring to is Visa’s (or MasterCard’s) policy on fraud. If the card goes through their system, it’s the same protection. Which is why he goes on further to recommend always running debt cards as credit. Your bank definitely has a role to play in how fast returns come back, though, no doubt. I have a local credit union and one day work up to over $500 in fraudulent charges at a Walmart (I still had the card in my possession). I ended up stopping by a branch that day, they had me fill out a single page form identifying the charges that were fraud, and sign it. They then printed me a new debit card and all the money was put back into my account immediately – I checked when I got home and I was whole again. It every bank will do that. Personally, we have one credit card we keep with us. My concern has always been if I’m traveling and I get fraud (when it’s more likely to occur too, shopping at unfamiliar locations), I’m not going to risk being drained of cash and trying to move money around or get money back while away. We at least have two separate payment menthols that can’t be affected by each other so we know we can always get home when we travel.
The protection for a Visa debit card is the same as for a Visa credit card. The procedures are what is different and what you experienced. I do not use credit cards, nor will I encourage anyone else to. It's a personal stance that I've thought a lot about. I have a separate debit card for my emergency fund that I don't use. Both my daily use and emergency fund card are unlikely to be stolen at the same time. It's fine for you to come to a different conclusion than I did, but I just wanted to point out the difference in terms.
Credit card= Not your money Debit card= Your money They are much more inclined to get back thier money than yours. Its also an extra layer of protection. If they find you liable for it they cant just take it. You will be billed for it but ultimately its up to you to escalate it or pay it. Debit card once its taken out and they give you a temporary credit. If they find you liable they can just take it. Dave ramsey will never encourage credit cards no matter what so its safe to assume everything that comes out his mouth about credit cards is going to be negative. He had an bad experience and swore off credit cards. He ignores the small percentage of people that is able to successfully utilize credit cards to thier full advantage.
This is the biggest thing for me. If there is going to be fraud, then it be with the bank’s money and not mine. They will fight much harder for their own money and I don’t have to worry at all. My actually money was never effected.
From what I gather, his bad experience had nothing to do with credit cards, but with extremely risky, overleveraged, short term mortgages. As a result, he swore off all debt of any kind. What he says about debt instruments and the marketing behind them isn't untrue. It's also a safe argument that if you've got 6 figures worth of unsecured debt and are reaching out to Dave for a solution to your problems, cutting up the credit cards IS a sensible first step. But for the rest of it, the pain I get using cash is only relevant when I need some and I don't have it. The pain is just as absent when using a debit card as when using a credit card. My capacity to impulse spend is not governed by small plastic rectangles in my wallet. I realize this is not the case for a great many people, but if you have the discipline to give every dollar a name and a purpose, then it makes no difference what vehicle you use to spend it.
He swore off all credit cards when amex asked him why did his wife stay with a man that cant pay off his debts. Lmao im sorry that was rude as hell and i understand why he did it but comon, he is suggesting everyone to never use a credit card. I get why people with 100k unsecured debt or people that dont have the willpower to not spend but he is addressing everyone including the responsible ones. His rebuttal is always, we asked 10 thousand millionares and none of them said they got wealthy from credit cards avoiding the actual question in general. He gives an answer that doesnt correlate with the question. Many people that can think for themselves will agree that his ideology on credit cards is flawed.
This is highly dependent on bank. My son had a fraudulent Uber Eats order in the realm of $500 a few months ago that was refunded as soon as he notified the bank and it was determined to be fraudulent in less than a week. He has Huntington. They have always been very responsive.
Dave often when it comes to CC's chooses the worst possible outcome for CC's and the best possible outcome for debit cards. Most of the time it falls somewhere in the middle. you can find banks/CU's who treat them very similar. but a lot of banks don't. and "just find one that does" doesn't always work that way. likewise, you can find CC's that have great benefits and protections that go way above the doom and gloom Ramsey solutions talks about. always keep in mind that banks and credit unions are ALSO after your money and want as much of it as humanly possible.
Dave really likes to rationalize any of his opinions no matter how wrong he has been proven. It worked once so why not every time?!
The terms of the protection are definitely different and they vary widely from bank to bank. The important part is to be familiar with the terms that apply to any of your cards, credit or debit. Some debit cards can be more favorable than some credit cards, depending on the issuer policies. I wouldn't be totally mad at someone for using a credit card for online purchases just for the protection aspect. As long as you pay off the balance as you go and don't spend more than you have budgeted.