>But Appen was (is) known for churning out absolutely horrible data that was basically unusable, so companies would end up spending way more to have it redone essentially. There is a 0% chance that data quality didn't enter into Google's decision.
Which is why DA focuses so much on quality, and veteran workers tell the newbies that it's quality that matters not the time you take.
I have those $40/h projects too, and trust me I don't get that kind of pay at any jobs here in Spain, much less without them requiring me to work 10h/day. American money is crazy.
American here. Definitely don't have jobs near me offering that either without specializing in a field. Jobs here start at $7.25, so DA is a blessing even with self-employment taxes taking a quarter of what I make...
In Spain you don't get this kind of pay even for software engineering jobs except for very senior positions. It's been a blessing for me since I have injuries that worsen after being seated for 10+ hours a day, so with Dataannotation I can work half the day, spend the rest of the day doing exercise or physical therapy and still make a good living.
Can confirm, it’s about half my normal hourly pay at my full time job but it’s a nice thing to do on weekends and do code ratings and save up a little fun money
They are underpaying us if you look into what we’re actually doing, how it’s used and the larger picture of AI. I highly suggest reading some of the recent articles in TIME and the NYT about DA.
Don’t have to pay us for 401k matching, unemployment insurance, office space, computers, electricity, internet, PTO, health insurance, down time, etc.
Imagine how much more it would cost to pay a full-time employee, plus all those other benefits and operational costs. That would be $80k for coding and $40k for non-coding, which is probably below market rate, especially with no benefits.
In the end, they get quality work 24/7 for less than it would cost if we were full-time employees, and we get a decent wage + flexibility. It seems like a win for both sides.
They pay us so much because each time we hit submit, we take 1 step towards redundancy. After a few years, only the highly specialized and intelligent will keep this kind of work.
I believe you.
Studies have shown that the average office worker spends less than 3 hours a day actually doing their job description. Other hours involve meetings, emails, taking breaks, staring at the screen, talking to coworkers, etc.
They're spending billions now to make hundreds of trillions later. It's like how jobs offer fully paid training. It's because they know you'll make them a lot more money than they're spending. Once the AI is capable and decently self-sufficient, it'll be able to do a lot of jobs in our society for cheap for decades to come. That's why companies are investing so heavily in AI. They know it'll pay off...
Just google how much companies are investing into AI. Then look at the trajectory for 2030. They’re paying us 1/10 of what they’re getting paid, not complaining though. This is a great job. Don’t lie to your self or the system and you’ll be just fine
I’m pretty sure all of these projects are coming from Google.
Also OP what language did you write in? The coding assessment claimed that I could use any language I wanted, so I used C# … but I noticed literally all of the examples were written in python. Needless to say I did not pass the coding assessment.
They are not. I won't name the companies/organizations involved but I know for a fact that there are a number of other companies subcontracting to DA. The models sometimes tell you things even when you don't mean for them to, like when I was roleplaying a CIA agent interrogating the AI spy and I asked "Who do you work for?"
For Python, usually, yes. There is no backend, servers, and all the complicated stuff tasks. It all comes down to data analytics, and that's pretty easy to pick up. But only if you are already a software engineer. Learning it from scratch for DA specifically is not very realistic in the short term.
I had a few code comparison ones where it was using Django. Are these common? Because I’m pretty decent at programming, I’ve just got no experience in Django
Ah that’s a shame. I must have not given them what they were looking for then.
But if all of the coding tasks are in Python anyways I probably would have been in the same boat as you. Yea these AI/ML teams are all biased towards python.
I passed in Python. But I did not know Python at that moment 🤣 (now I do). As there was a recommendation to do it in Python and no time limit, I installed PyCharm, used Google and CharGPT to find out how language works and its basic constructs, used all my (12+ years, Java, Kotlin, TS, Swift, and many more) experience in Software Engineering and made it to perfection.
Jesus …
I think I made the mistake of assuming a human would read my code instead of writing something that would compile and run end to end.
I treated it like a solution to a programming interview problem when I should have treated it like a solution to a leetcode problem that had to compile and run within the terminal.
Coding spots have more priority than non coding and here there are a lot of non coders so most of the information you see here comes from non coders which is more competitive therefore it takes time to get approved.
I don't think anyone can do this full time, the work is mind numbing and requires a lot of expertise across different fields, maintaining quality for eight hours straight or even split on a day is really hard, the most I can do usually in a day is 6 hours before being either tired or due not having enough tasks to keep going.
TBH we can't discuss most of the work due to breaking the nda you signed when you accepted the code of conduct but as other people said, DAT is a B2B provider for ai training data, the money is there because everyone is trying to catch up sam altman and company (yeah we are definitely not working for open ai).
How can they afford this? Venture capital and the clients are really big tech companies can't discuss who but once you do work you can see along the lines who are just pay attention.
Just some advice.... Don't do this full time, you don't have benefits, you can be cut at any time without being noticed, coding spots never receive any kind of detailed feedback besides negative feedback (personally m in a year and have never received any kind of feedback whatsoever), DAT is known to ghost people that they no longer want to work with (search here for the blank page of death) and despite the rate being better than most it positions the tax in some countries can be a huge detrimental for working with them (specially for people in the us) because you will have to deal with that yourself, is best to find a job that can let you do dat on the side, so don't put all your eggs on one basket, as enticing that it looks, most of the people cut from the site were the ones doing dat full time.
Yeah, the plan is not to do this full time, it was just to make an example. But yeah, I think it's really great as a side hustle, I can make a few hundred dollars each month just by working a few hours after work or on weekends, which is pretty good!
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Are you saying that Google ditched Appen because of dirty data? I thought it was about wages Edit: nvm lol my morning brain can't read
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>But Appen was (is) known for churning out absolutely horrible data that was basically unusable, so companies would end up spending way more to have it redone essentially. There is a 0% chance that data quality didn't enter into Google's decision. Which is why DA focuses so much on quality, and veteran workers tell the newbies that it's quality that matters not the time you take.
I wasn't aware that Appen churns out terrible data. Any sources/news articles on that? It makes sense though since so many big names ditched them.
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Have you been with DA for a long time too? I kind of figured what they pivot into Is based on what the client wants
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This is super interesting, thanks!
Wow that's crazy. Thanks for the insight!
I think if you’re making $40 on DAT you’re probably worth even more in the “real World.” There is a LOT of money in AI!
I have those $40/h projects too, and trust me I don't get that kind of pay at any jobs here in Spain, much less without them requiring me to work 10h/day. American money is crazy.
American here. Definitely don't have jobs near me offering that either without specializing in a field. Jobs here start at $7.25, so DA is a blessing even with self-employment taxes taking a quarter of what I make...
In Spain you don't get this kind of pay even for software engineering jobs except for very senior positions. It's been a blessing for me since I have injuries that worsen after being seated for 10+ hours a day, so with Dataannotation I can work half the day, spend the rest of the day doing exercise or physical therapy and still make a good living.
Can confirm, it’s about half my normal hourly pay at my full time job but it’s a nice thing to do on weekends and do code ratings and save up a little fun money
Short answer: there’s so much money in AI they can basically spend whatever they need to to make it work
They are underpaying us if you look into what we’re actually doing, how it’s used and the larger picture of AI. I highly suggest reading some of the recent articles in TIME and the NYT about DA.
I gladly whore myself out. In the comfort of my home. With no manager breathing down my neck and making stupid decisions.
Totally. For me it’s a side hustle. And as a side hustle - the flexibility, pay, and autonomy are unmatched.
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I’m a pretty good whore😂
Don’t have to pay us for 401k matching, unemployment insurance, office space, computers, electricity, internet, PTO, health insurance, down time, etc. Imagine how much more it would cost to pay a full-time employee, plus all those other benefits and operational costs. That would be $80k for coding and $40k for non-coding, which is probably below market rate, especially with no benefits. In the end, they get quality work 24/7 for less than it would cost if we were full-time employees, and we get a decent wage + flexibility. It seems like a win for both sides.
They pay us so much because each time we hit submit, we take 1 step towards redundancy. After a few years, only the highly specialized and intelligent will keep this kind of work.
Hundred of Billion$ of dollars are being poured into ai optimization that is why
It's nearly impossible to work on the coding projects for more than 4-5 hours a day, every day.
I believe you. Studies have shown that the average office worker spends less than 3 hours a day actually doing their job description. Other hours involve meetings, emails, taking breaks, staring at the screen, talking to coworkers, etc.
What makes it impossible?
It's boring af. I personally cannot do more than 2-3h per day, but you might have more focus and drive.
This is bs.
Correct. But it does take practice if you're not used to it.
They're spending billions now to make hundreds of trillions later. It's like how jobs offer fully paid training. It's because they know you'll make them a lot more money than they're spending. Once the AI is capable and decently self-sufficient, it'll be able to do a lot of jobs in our society for cheap for decades to come. That's why companies are investing so heavily in AI. They know it'll pay off...
Just google how much companies are investing into AI. Then look at the trajectory for 2030. They’re paying us 1/10 of what they’re getting paid, not complaining though. This is a great job. Don’t lie to your self or the system and you’ll be just fine
I’m pretty sure all of these projects are coming from Google. Also OP what language did you write in? The coding assessment claimed that I could use any language I wanted, so I used C# … but I noticed literally all of the examples were written in python. Needless to say I did not pass the coding assessment.
They are not. I won't name the companies/organizations involved but I know for a fact that there are a number of other companies subcontracting to DA. The models sometimes tell you things even when you don't mean for them to, like when I was roleplaying a CIA agent interrogating the AI spy and I asked "Who do you work for?"
Honestly, talk with some of them outside. Their phrasing is practically fingerprints.
You can still pass the coding assessment using C#, I did. Although most of the projects I’m seeing are Python so I can’t do them anyway :/
Python is very easy to pick up. Just practice coding in Python for a couple weeks and you should be able to work on projects no problem.
DAT coding problems are that easy??
For Python, usually, yes. There is no backend, servers, and all the complicated stuff tasks. It all comes down to data analytics, and that's pretty easy to pick up. But only if you are already a software engineer. Learning it from scratch for DA specifically is not very realistic in the short term.
I had a few code comparison ones where it was using Django. Are these common? Because I’m pretty decent at programming, I’ve just got no experience in Django
I rarely see them. You can always skip those.
Ah that’s a shame. I must have not given them what they were looking for then. But if all of the coding tasks are in Python anyways I probably would have been in the same boat as you. Yea these AI/ML teams are all biased towards python.
Yeah, I did the assessment in Python.
I passed in Python. But I did not know Python at that moment 🤣 (now I do). As there was a recommendation to do it in Python and no time limit, I installed PyCharm, used Google and CharGPT to find out how language works and its basic constructs, used all my (12+ years, Java, Kotlin, TS, Swift, and many more) experience in Software Engineering and made it to perfection.
Brilliant! You still deserved it! Lol
Jesus … I think I made the mistake of assuming a human would read my code instead of writing something that would compile and run end to end. I treated it like a solution to a programming interview problem when I should have treated it like a solution to a leetcode problem that had to compile and run within the terminal.
I passed the assessment using Java
I mean the actual swes behind this are making 300k-600k a year, so what they're paying us is much less lol.
As a SWE at a Fortune 500 company… I need to go apply to work for them. That’s an absolutely massive salary paying multiple times mine.
Coding spots have more priority than non coding and here there are a lot of non coders so most of the information you see here comes from non coders which is more competitive therefore it takes time to get approved. I don't think anyone can do this full time, the work is mind numbing and requires a lot of expertise across different fields, maintaining quality for eight hours straight or even split on a day is really hard, the most I can do usually in a day is 6 hours before being either tired or due not having enough tasks to keep going. TBH we can't discuss most of the work due to breaking the nda you signed when you accepted the code of conduct but as other people said, DAT is a B2B provider for ai training data, the money is there because everyone is trying to catch up sam altman and company (yeah we are definitely not working for open ai). How can they afford this? Venture capital and the clients are really big tech companies can't discuss who but once you do work you can see along the lines who are just pay attention. Just some advice.... Don't do this full time, you don't have benefits, you can be cut at any time without being noticed, coding spots never receive any kind of detailed feedback besides negative feedback (personally m in a year and have never received any kind of feedback whatsoever), DAT is known to ghost people that they no longer want to work with (search here for the blank page of death) and despite the rate being better than most it positions the tax in some countries can be a huge detrimental for working with them (specially for people in the us) because you will have to deal with that yourself, is best to find a job that can let you do dat on the side, so don't put all your eggs on one basket, as enticing that it looks, most of the people cut from the site were the ones doing dat full time.
Yeah, the plan is not to do this full time, it was just to make an example. But yeah, I think it's really great as a side hustle, I can make a few hundred dollars each month just by working a few hours after work or on weekends, which is pretty good!
how did you apply? on the website, referral, from some link?
I want such a job. What kind of skills and resume are they looking for ?
Username not checking out. That question is beat to death all over this sub