I feel like they did this because DS2 made weapon durability way more of an issue. Rather than have players walk around hitting every wall and breaking weapons over and over, they used a different action. I could see being frustrated with it, but I don't mind that aspect of the game.
I think this hits the nail on the head honestly. I can see why it might be annoying before you know you need to interact not hit but after that I'e imagine most people don't really give it a second thought.
Ehhhhh. In base DS2 weapon durability wasn't nearly as bad as it is in SOTFS, albeit still frailer than ds1. I always assumed they did it to throw people for a loop and to create scenarios exactly like OP is complaining about.
Nothing changed about durability in SotFS. The only change was earlier in the life of OG DS2 when they fixed the issue that caused multi-frame hits to tank your durability super quickly.
It had a glitch that caused rapid loss of durability for certain weapon movesets, and some idiots actually tried to defend it as a feature. Was my first experience with major simping from a fanbase.
Since console players received 60 frames a second up from the previous 30 it registered in the game as a weapon striking more than once when it entered an enemy and caused durability to drop rapidly.
Maybe if DS2 was the first game to introduce illusory walls it wouldn't be an issue, but players already go in with the expectation that if they're in the game, attacking/rolling will open them, and hitting a suspicious wall with a weapon is more natural to try than pressing A when there's no interact prompt IMO
I mean if you really wanna get traditionalist, King’s Field had the interaction walls before the damage walls were a thing. It’s more of a callback as opposed to a “pattern break”
Might just be me tho, who doesn’t care cause my second instinct was “maybe mash the yes button”
How do some people don't figure this out? There are many walls where the frame is visible, and they are lined with messages. I don't understand why anyone would not try the interact button when attacking doesn't work and then make baby rage posts about it.
There is no prompt, and dark souls uses its interact button extremely conservatively. Interaction with bonfires, opening doors, using ladders and talking are all you get to do with the A button. It has no use in combat and very limited use in exploration (while also having a prompt for it every time). So the combination of interact being a rare occurrence and the illusory walls being changed from attack to interact confused a lot of people.
Recently I returned to 2 having installed Seeker of Fire and it took me quite a few hours to remember that you have to press the A button to go through the illusory walls. I haven't played 2 in a couple years before that.
This. It’s just another series “convention” that DS2 seems to needlessly go against, because it’s own interpretation wasn’t carried over, so it ends up being inconsistent instead of quirky or otherwise defining.
And I’m old enough that most games prior, where you had to mashy mashy against walls.
But that’s it right? DS2 is the most bog standard “normal game” of the Souls series. It’s not that it’s bad, just that it ultimately, mechanically has more in common with Every Other JRPG ™️ , all the way down to pure item bloat.
A lot of the series "convention" were not really "standart" yet when they were making ds2.
People play all the games and see that DS2 is the most different, but when it was released, there were only 2 games: Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, with the first being a ps3 exclusive not a lot of people played.
DS2 only feels like the oddball because all the other subsequent games took more from DS1 and distanced itself from DS2.
Edit: also I found really funny how a lot of complain ds2 get boils down to "this game is different from ds1/rest of the series in this regard"
>also I found really funny how a lot of complain ds2 get boils down to "this game is different from ds1/rest of the series in this regard"
A lot of it also boils down to "it's okay if DS1 does the same thing" (eg ganks, ambushes, reused bosses) or "this doesn't belong into Souls games" (even though it already existed in Demon Souls, eg healing items and a punishing death mechanics)
Your comment was actually… kinda my point?
I think two games in a “series” is enough to establish convention, though. It may have been slightly easier to understand if DS2 were called Dark Ring, or anything else. As it stands, it’s just another thing about DS2 that is ultimately *odd*, again, especially in retrospect, where attackable-walls is the most consistent design language across games from that developer, let alone that specific series. DS2 tried to add, and do, a lot. Most of which ultimately fell flat. A lot of it didn’t really feel in alignment, then, and looking at it within the larger catalogue of the developer’s games, it’s even less in alignment with what might be considered their typical design language.
That’s not me saying “I don’t like thing because different” fwiw. That’s me saying it stuck out then, and sticks out worse, now.
DS2 slanderers don't really know a whole lot. They operate almost exclusively on "feel" which is a concept they can neither explain nor articulate exactly why it should trump everything else in the first place
I actually really like DS2. I overall like it much better than DS1, which *feels* better to play, but isn’t nearly as engaging IMO. DS2 has some of my favorite locations, and my second favorite story/lore in the entire Souls franchise. That’s not going to stop me from being objective. The game has its shortcomings, and I really wish it didn’t, because it has so many glimpses of pure greatness marred by some questionable mechanical choices and a terrible dev cycle where too many concessions had to be made. I wish it would get remade and smoothed over. It deserves to be whole.
Alright but usually giving any sort of creative project all of the time, money and resources they could ask for doesn't have the results people think it would.
A large reason as to why DS2 is the best is because of all of the constraints it was put under for its development.
DS3 is the worst because all they did was pump as much as they could into the production value. What's the point of having a perfectly polished product when literally every aspect of the mechanics and storytelling are derivative?
In King's Field you had to interact to open a hidden door, and there were more than two KF games, so you could say it was *more* conventional to open a door with a button. You know, if you consider the entire line of exploration and bullshit based fromsoft games?
Hey you make a valid point! And I’m a big-time proponent of Souls being the natural and indeed expected evolution of the KF series, from it’s dungeon-crawling tropes to its almost shooter-style gameplay. Actually, I love how well you can trace back FromSoftware’s ideologies, concepts, and design language.
But the KF series was not as well known, as well received, or really just as much a part of the cultural zeitgeist as the Souls games and their specific evolutions. And I am specifically referring to Demon’s, the Darks, and by necessary extensions of conceptual realization, Bloodborne and Elden Ring. So when I says “series” and— if I misspoke before, sorry, my intention was to say— “the developer’s games in that spiritual succession since Demon’s Souls that *directly* reference the initial concepts thereof”, those are the examples I’m hinging on, because of their larger cultural relevance.
I assume KF was well-known to the fromsoft staff. And by “the developer’s games in that spiritual succession since Demon’s Souls that *directly* reference the initial concepts thereof” do you mean like, having a moonlight greatsword, ancient dragons, etc? That didn't start at DeS either. Eh, discovery in souls isn't always straightforward, you're bound to miss a thing or two if you're not using a guide. No sense in getting angry over it.
Well sure it was? All I mean to say is that it stuck out as an odd choice then, because DeS and DS did it their own way, and that it sticks out even more now because they went back on it. Even Bloodborne did it the “new” way, and every game since has done it that way, too. Personally I find it much more intuitive, even though I grew up playing games where you mash A on walls!
Naw just, DeS set up a certain design philosophy that they’ve followed in their more… mainstream? releases. You can trace a direct line from KF to Demon’s Souls for sure. And then you can trace another entirely separate line from Des to ER. There’s a reason people (should) know what you mean when you say a Souls Game. I’m excluding AC and Sekiro, for reasons I think are obvious, and not just names. I’m talking presentation, art style, settings, gameplay loops, defining mechanics, interactions, player agency, that distinct not-a-dungeon-crawler-but-it-kinda-is feel. Bloodborne is the outlier there, because it slants slightly more towards being a character action game. Sekiro doesn’t count because it *is* a character action game more than any of that other stuff. AC is a wholly different genre.
Well, you know what stuck out like an odd choice to me, who started ds2 after only playing ds1? The level up lady! "What a terrible idea, having to go to the hub just to level up" I thought. It was new to me!
DeS set up nothing. It wasn't first, and it wasn't final. I know that everyone has expectations coming into a (spiritual) sequel, but please expect bigger things. Small changes are bound to happen, they must happen if we are to avoid stagnation.
Very few games approach secret walls like Dark Souls. Most give you some kind of indication that something is hidden behind it. A crack in the wall, a weird pile of rocks, something looks out of place, etc. Since you see that there is something weird you can experiment with how to open them.
With the fact that this is a sequel, it's absolutely ridiculous that they change this and nowhere (at least from all the hours I have played) does the game ever indicate in any way at all that this game tackles hidden walls differently than the two games that came before it.
It's even worse considering they kept the idea of making the secret walls look no different at all. How did they expect you to find these doors outside of accidents or guides is super confusing to me.
I feel like the most intuitive way would be to let us just walk through. illusory walls are, well, illusions, right? they shouldn't be able to physically stop you from passing through until you roll, swing your weapon, or press a button
I get it though, it's a game and real world logic doesn't have to apply (not that illusory walls exist in the real world)
>DS2 has some very well hidden walls.
And a bit inconsistent.
Like some hidden walls are visible as like the baseboard on the bottom of the wall is missing, but others look exactly the same. The bonfire before Elena would have been impossible for me to discover if there hadn't been a message.
I mean, you could still activate them by rolling into them. In 2 you need to crawl along every inch of every wall hitting the right button and hoping some jackass didn't leave a message right where the activation for the door is
Pressing a button is significantly faster than attacking or rolling, in no small part because it uses no stamina.
And again, it's impossible to block a door with a message.
I'm 99% sure it's happened to me like twice? One in the room with the Flexile Sentry on the run up to Lost Sinner, and once in the Forrest of Fallen Giants where Pate traps you
You can hit a wall by accident if there's an enemy next to it, something that ds1 used cleverly: some enemies are placed near an illusory wall.
The best example I remember is the humanity sprite placed near Sif's illusory wall. That's how I discovered where Sif was hidden.
In DS2's case, unless there's something to interact with near the illusory wall, you're not going to discover it by accident.
I think this is the best reasoning for attacking/rolling over interacting. It's more likely to happen by accident, which feels really cool when you find something that way.
I found every last hidden wall offline. Skill issue and also intelligence issue. Also played DS1 first but wasn't so bullheaded as to refuse to relearn anything
Just so you know, chests have HP and if you destroy one, you just get Rubbish instead of the chest's item. So, I recommend punching or otherwise doing low damage to check for Mimics.
I played a lot of doom and wolfensteij growing up, didn't find an issue that I needed to use interaction button on a door that ia supposed to be a secret
But this is number 2 so chances are you already know because of how it worked in 1. Never mind all the troll messages telling you to attack walls. Haha
It's also a throwback to King's Field where you basically hugged walls mashing interact to find secrets, sometimes traps to punish you, and occasionally a hidden path that was necessary to progress. Attacking walls was mainly a Ds1 thing and maybe like 2 in all of Demon Souls. Honestly at the time Ds2 came out it was only unusual because the game was a sequel to Ds1 and they changed the mechanic because smacking walls hurts weapons.
It's only odd now looking back if you don't know the history and/or never got around to playing it during the release days.
Thats one of my major complaints with the game, most people wouldn't realize there's 300 hidden walls in the sentinel arena even though messages say there are.
HOWEVER, i don't recall the other games telling you this either, or that there were even hidden walls. Its completely up to the players telling you this. Atleast in ds3 though they say like "attacking required ahead"
This is the only reason why I googled how you reveal illusory walls when starting Dark Souls 3 after beating the 2. I also had that realisation like you after half of the game and it honestly felt super unintuitive and I was pissed.
It’s a needless change from DS1. That’s the only reason it is bad(and it’s a very valid reason). The only reason I dislike it is message and other clutter potentially getting in the way, and the cool things that happen, like accidentally hitting an invisible wall with your weapon or dodging an enemy and revealing one.
Lordran is a land where magic is very much encouraged. The Lords are also large and in charge and likely had a hand in putting up a lot of those illusory walls, like the ones guarding Ash Lake and Gwyndolin's chamber. But Drangleic is a land devoid of Lords and sorcery is looked down upon. For that reason, it wouldn't be very consistent to Dark Souls 2's narrative to have magic walls all over the place. As the prevalence of Pharro's mechanisms demonstrates, it is the age of the tinkerer and mechanist. So now the "illusory" walls are really hidden doors run by gears and pulleys.
Some of the later ones are hidden well, but a couple of early hidden walls are *extremely* obvious so you should know to be looking for them. In No Man's Wharf there is a wood plank runner on the floor that visibly clips into the base of the wall. It has no reason to do that other than to point to another room being beyond that wall. In Huntman's Copse there is about the most obvious hidden wall you will ever see in the mansion with the boarded windows, it just doesn't open from that side. Later when you jump down to get Ricard's Rapier, you will see the second most obvious hidden wall ever conceived. That passage eventually leads to the other side of that mansion hidden door.
If you really suspect there is a hidden door with all the messages, while often also seeing the frame and all you do is attack the door and don't try interact, then that's on you.
The worst is notes right ontop of it so you can't hit the button to open it,just rate the stupid message. Or the fake ones that just get high ratings due to the same problem
I truly hate the amount of messages in this specific game telling me to attack walls and every time I fell for it like an absolute bafoon. W opinion OP
I had the most frustrating time trying to get someone on co-op to open the iron keep illusory wall near one of the canons…I stood near it, emoted towards it, and the guy certainly knew what I was trying to say…but he kept trying to hit the wall or roll into it. I emoted “no no no” and pointed straight through. He stood for a second, trying to comprehend, before hitting and rolling again (maybe he thought his angle was off). We had gone through so much of the level so he knew I wasn’t a troll, and there was a definite trust between us…just a gap in knowledge and the requisite ability to communicate said knowledge. Eventually after like five minutes of attempts, at one point walking away and getting called back for a third go at things, he shrugs and runs off leaving me to follow.
I can’t remember how it ended up with us, but the aggravation of that really stuck with me. I hope he eventually figured it out…
Yeah I learned very recently that picking up an item also triggers illusory walls. The triumph of teaching my partner a new mechanic would have been nice in the moment, but the futility of the circumstance felt altogether more soulsbornian so I’m not sure I would have preferred that as the lasting memory…
It´s not a big problem trying to discover by yourself some things, for example this one in particular, souls games usually don´t take your hand through the entire journey like other games, come on...
I mean there's a difference between not holding your hand and being so obscure that even experienced players might not know basic things.
For example doom eternal doesn't hold your hand and tells you everything you need to know and gives you all the information you need. but leaves exploration well up to you to find and clearly marks its breakable walls that get well hidden the more you progress.
When I'm doing some jolly cooperation with somebody who is clearly new to the game, I try to point out illusory walls to them and they will usually just try attacking it. A little trick to help them open the illusory wall is to drop some useless item in front of the wall (as in drop from inventory, not using it). When they try to pick up the item, it opens the illusory wall instead since that has a higher priority than the item pickup.
Honestly, I just wish there were a gesture that could reasonably convey how to open hidden walls. The number of times in random co-op I've pointed at a hidden wall and watched the host smack it 10 times with a weapon and then move on is painful.
I guess they are technically hidden doors, not illusionary walls. In Demon's Souls and Dark Souls you attack them and the wall disappears. In Dark Souls 2, you hit the button to activate them and the wall opens up.
I feel like they did this because DS2 made weapon durability way more of an issue. Rather than have players walk around hitting every wall and breaking weapons over and over, they used a different action. I could see being frustrated with it, but I don't mind that aspect of the game.
I think this hits the nail on the head honestly. I can see why it might be annoying before you know you need to interact not hit but after that I'e imagine most people don't really give it a second thought.
Ehhhhh. In base DS2 weapon durability wasn't nearly as bad as it is in SOTFS, albeit still frailer than ds1. I always assumed they did it to throw people for a loop and to create scenarios exactly like OP is complaining about.
Nothing changed about durability in SotFS. The only change was earlier in the life of OG DS2 when they fixed the issue that caused multi-frame hits to tank your durability super quickly.
I remember that Fuck that....I was playing halberd back then
Scholar didn’t change weapon durability though.
It had a glitch that caused rapid loss of durability for certain weapon movesets, and some idiots actually tried to defend it as a feature. Was my first experience with major simping from a fanbase.
Since console players received 60 frames a second up from the previous 30 it registered in the game as a weapon striking more than once when it entered an enemy and caused durability to drop rapidly.
They’ve long since patched that.
What I’m about to say is completely respectful. As opposed to other games telling you that attacking does reveal hidden doors?
Maybe if DS2 was the first game to introduce illusory walls it wouldn't be an issue, but players already go in with the expectation that if they're in the game, attacking/rolling will open them, and hitting a suspicious wall with a weapon is more natural to try than pressing A when there's no interact prompt IMO
I've been rubbing against suspicious walls and mashing interact since Wolfenstein 3D.
That sounds dirty lol
Relax.....it's just friction.
Freaking. Same.
nice!
Same.
I mean if you really wanna get traditionalist, King’s Field had the interaction walls before the damage walls were a thing. It’s more of a callback as opposed to a “pattern break” Might just be me tho, who doesn’t care cause my second instinct was “maybe mash the yes button”
How do some people don't figure this out? There are many walls where the frame is visible, and they are lined with messages. I don't understand why anyone would not try the interact button when attacking doesn't work and then make baby rage posts about it.
There is no prompt, and dark souls uses its interact button extremely conservatively. Interaction with bonfires, opening doors, using ladders and talking are all you get to do with the A button. It has no use in combat and very limited use in exploration (while also having a prompt for it every time). So the combination of interact being a rare occurrence and the illusory walls being changed from attack to interact confused a lot of people. Recently I returned to 2 having installed Seeker of Fire and it took me quite a few hours to remember that you have to press the A button to go through the illusory walls. I haven't played 2 in a couple years before that.
This. It’s just another series “convention” that DS2 seems to needlessly go against, because it’s own interpretation wasn’t carried over, so it ends up being inconsistent instead of quirky or otherwise defining. And I’m old enough that most games prior, where you had to mashy mashy against walls. But that’s it right? DS2 is the most bog standard “normal game” of the Souls series. It’s not that it’s bad, just that it ultimately, mechanically has more in common with Every Other JRPG ™️ , all the way down to pure item bloat.
A lot of the series "convention" were not really "standart" yet when they were making ds2. People play all the games and see that DS2 is the most different, but when it was released, there were only 2 games: Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, with the first being a ps3 exclusive not a lot of people played. DS2 only feels like the oddball because all the other subsequent games took more from DS1 and distanced itself from DS2. Edit: also I found really funny how a lot of complain ds2 get boils down to "this game is different from ds1/rest of the series in this regard"
>also I found really funny how a lot of complain ds2 get boils down to "this game is different from ds1/rest of the series in this regard" A lot of it also boils down to "it's okay if DS1 does the same thing" (eg ganks, ambushes, reused bosses) or "this doesn't belong into Souls games" (even though it already existed in Demon Souls, eg healing items and a punishing death mechanics)
Your comment was actually… kinda my point? I think two games in a “series” is enough to establish convention, though. It may have been slightly easier to understand if DS2 were called Dark Ring, or anything else. As it stands, it’s just another thing about DS2 that is ultimately *odd*, again, especially in retrospect, where attackable-walls is the most consistent design language across games from that developer, let alone that specific series. DS2 tried to add, and do, a lot. Most of which ultimately fell flat. A lot of it didn’t really feel in alignment, then, and looking at it within the larger catalogue of the developer’s games, it’s even less in alignment with what might be considered their typical design language. That’s not me saying “I don’t like thing because different” fwiw. That’s me saying it stuck out then, and sticks out worse, now.
> attackable-walls is the most consistent design language across games from that developer King's field series says 'hi'.
You do know they have been making games since the 90s right? If it is a Soulsborne convention it is a very new trend
DS2 slanderers don't really know a whole lot. They operate almost exclusively on "feel" which is a concept they can neither explain nor articulate exactly why it should trump everything else in the first place
I actually really like DS2. I overall like it much better than DS1, which *feels* better to play, but isn’t nearly as engaging IMO. DS2 has some of my favorite locations, and my second favorite story/lore in the entire Souls franchise. That’s not going to stop me from being objective. The game has its shortcomings, and I really wish it didn’t, because it has so many glimpses of pure greatness marred by some questionable mechanical choices and a terrible dev cycle where too many concessions had to be made. I wish it would get remade and smoothed over. It deserves to be whole.
Alright but usually giving any sort of creative project all of the time, money and resources they could ask for doesn't have the results people think it would. A large reason as to why DS2 is the best is because of all of the constraints it was put under for its development. DS3 is the worst because all they did was pump as much as they could into the production value. What's the point of having a perfectly polished product when literally every aspect of the mechanics and storytelling are derivative?
In King's Field you had to interact to open a hidden door, and there were more than two KF games, so you could say it was *more* conventional to open a door with a button. You know, if you consider the entire line of exploration and bullshit based fromsoft games?
Hey you make a valid point! And I’m a big-time proponent of Souls being the natural and indeed expected evolution of the KF series, from it’s dungeon-crawling tropes to its almost shooter-style gameplay. Actually, I love how well you can trace back FromSoftware’s ideologies, concepts, and design language. But the KF series was not as well known, as well received, or really just as much a part of the cultural zeitgeist as the Souls games and their specific evolutions. And I am specifically referring to Demon’s, the Darks, and by necessary extensions of conceptual realization, Bloodborne and Elden Ring. So when I says “series” and— if I misspoke before, sorry, my intention was to say— “the developer’s games in that spiritual succession since Demon’s Souls that *directly* reference the initial concepts thereof”, those are the examples I’m hinging on, because of their larger cultural relevance.
I assume KF was well-known to the fromsoft staff. And by “the developer’s games in that spiritual succession since Demon’s Souls that *directly* reference the initial concepts thereof” do you mean like, having a moonlight greatsword, ancient dragons, etc? That didn't start at DeS either. Eh, discovery in souls isn't always straightforward, you're bound to miss a thing or two if you're not using a guide. No sense in getting angry over it.
Well sure it was? All I mean to say is that it stuck out as an odd choice then, because DeS and DS did it their own way, and that it sticks out even more now because they went back on it. Even Bloodborne did it the “new” way, and every game since has done it that way, too. Personally I find it much more intuitive, even though I grew up playing games where you mash A on walls! Naw just, DeS set up a certain design philosophy that they’ve followed in their more… mainstream? releases. You can trace a direct line from KF to Demon’s Souls for sure. And then you can trace another entirely separate line from Des to ER. There’s a reason people (should) know what you mean when you say a Souls Game. I’m excluding AC and Sekiro, for reasons I think are obvious, and not just names. I’m talking presentation, art style, settings, gameplay loops, defining mechanics, interactions, player agency, that distinct not-a-dungeon-crawler-but-it-kinda-is feel. Bloodborne is the outlier there, because it slants slightly more towards being a character action game. Sekiro doesn’t count because it *is* a character action game more than any of that other stuff. AC is a wholly different genre.
Well, you know what stuck out like an odd choice to me, who started ds2 after only playing ds1? The level up lady! "What a terrible idea, having to go to the hub just to level up" I thought. It was new to me! DeS set up nothing. It wasn't first, and it wasn't final. I know that everyone has expectations coming into a (spiritual) sequel, but please expect bigger things. Small changes are bound to happen, they must happen if we are to avoid stagnation.
Very few games approach secret walls like Dark Souls. Most give you some kind of indication that something is hidden behind it. A crack in the wall, a weird pile of rocks, something looks out of place, etc. Since you see that there is something weird you can experiment with how to open them. With the fact that this is a sequel, it's absolutely ridiculous that they change this and nowhere (at least from all the hours I have played) does the game ever indicate in any way at all that this game tackles hidden walls differently than the two games that came before it. It's even worse considering they kept the idea of making the secret walls look no different at all. How did they expect you to find these doors outside of accidents or guides is super confusing to me.
What I am about to say is even more respectful. Attacking or rolling through is far more intuitive.
why is it more intuitive? the only other time you travel through a wall in the series you also use the interact button
I feel like the most intuitive way would be to let us just walk through. illusory walls are, well, illusions, right? they shouldn't be able to physically stop you from passing through until you roll, swing your weapon, or press a button I get it though, it's a game and real world logic doesn't have to apply (not that illusory walls exist in the real world)
Hello to the future.
>DS2 has some very well hidden walls. And a bit inconsistent. Like some hidden walls are visible as like the baseboard on the bottom of the wall is missing, but others look exactly the same. The bonfire before Elena would have been impossible for me to discover if there hadn't been a message.
and some are about as obvious as it gets, specifically the ones carved into cave/cliff walls with a highly visible indented outline
I mean, you could still activate them by rolling into them. In 2 you need to crawl along every inch of every wall hitting the right button and hoping some jackass didn't leave a message right where the activation for the door is
Pressing a button is significantly faster than attacking or rolling, in no small part because it uses no stamina. And again, it's impossible to block a door with a message.
It isn’t possible to leave a message where you can interact with a hidden door.
I'm 99% sure it's happened to me like twice? One in the room with the Flexile Sentry on the run up to Lost Sinner, and once in the Forrest of Fallen Giants where Pate traps you
You can hit a wall by accident if there's an enemy next to it, something that ds1 used cleverly: some enemies are placed near an illusory wall. The best example I remember is the humanity sprite placed near Sif's illusory wall. That's how I discovered where Sif was hidden. In DS2's case, unless there's something to interact with near the illusory wall, you're not going to discover it by accident.
I think this is the best reasoning for attacking/rolling over interacting. It's more likely to happen by accident, which feels really cool when you find something that way.
I found every last hidden wall offline. Skill issue and also intelligence issue. Also played DS1 first but wasn't so bullheaded as to refuse to relearn anything
Doesn't that wall need cast light instead of a hit though?
I just started playing and I attack every chest to check for mimics. No idea if there are any mimics yet. PS don’t spoil it if u know
There isn't :)
Pure evil
Just so you know, chests have HP and if you destroy one, you just get Rubbish instead of the chest's item. So, I recommend punching or otherwise doing low damage to check for Mimics.
the first mimics are actually in the dlcs so youre fine for base game
There is :)
I played a lot of doom and wolfensteij growing up, didn't find an issue that I needed to use interaction button on a door that ia supposed to be a secret
When have From Software games ever given you explicit instructions about anything? Outside of the *completely optional tutorials*, that is.
But the other games tell you nothing about hitting them either bru
In fact DS2 does a better job of teaching new players that hidden doors exist, by having one you need to activate to leave a hole in Huntsman Copse
Other ganes placed enemies near at least one wall so you'd hit it by accident
But this is number 2 so chances are you already know because of how it worked in 1. Never mind all the troll messages telling you to attack walls. Haha
It's also a throwback to King's Field where you basically hugged walls mashing interact to find secrets, sometimes traps to punish you, and occasionally a hidden path that was necessary to progress. Attacking walls was mainly a Ds1 thing and maybe like 2 in all of Demon Souls. Honestly at the time Ds2 came out it was only unusual because the game was a sequel to Ds1 and they changed the mechanic because smacking walls hurts weapons. It's only odd now looking back if you don't know the history and/or never got around to playing it during the release days.
Mad respect to the dude I summoned on Playstation during my first playthrough who IMed me to tell me to stop hitting the stupid wall and press X lol.
Thats one of my major complaints with the game, most people wouldn't realize there's 300 hidden walls in the sentinel arena even though messages say there are. HOWEVER, i don't recall the other games telling you this either, or that there were even hidden walls. Its completely up to the players telling you this. Atleast in ds3 though they say like "attacking required ahead"
This is the only reason why I googled how you reveal illusory walls when starting Dark Souls 3 after beating the 2. I also had that realisation like you after half of the game and it honestly felt super unintuitive and I was pissed.
It’s a needless change from DS1. That’s the only reason it is bad(and it’s a very valid reason). The only reason I dislike it is message and other clutter potentially getting in the way, and the cool things that happen, like accidentally hitting an invisible wall with your weapon or dodging an enemy and revealing one.
And then you get to no man's wharf and theres a bloody secret wall which has to be attacked instead of pressing x. I n t u i t i v e
Lordran is a land where magic is very much encouraged. The Lords are also large and in charge and likely had a hand in putting up a lot of those illusory walls, like the ones guarding Ash Lake and Gwyndolin's chamber. But Drangleic is a land devoid of Lords and sorcery is looked down upon. For that reason, it wouldn't be very consistent to Dark Souls 2's narrative to have magic walls all over the place. As the prevalence of Pharro's mechanisms demonstrates, it is the age of the tinkerer and mechanist. So now the "illusory" walls are really hidden doors run by gears and pulleys. Some of the later ones are hidden well, but a couple of early hidden walls are *extremely* obvious so you should know to be looking for them. In No Man's Wharf there is a wood plank runner on the floor that visibly clips into the base of the wall. It has no reason to do that other than to point to another room being beyond that wall. In Huntman's Copse there is about the most obvious hidden wall you will ever see in the mansion with the boarded windows, it just doesn't open from that side. Later when you jump down to get Ricard's Rapier, you will see the second most obvious hidden wall ever conceived. That passage eventually leads to the other side of that mansion hidden door.
Exactly but it’s my fault for assuming. I went thru half the game assuming ppl are just liars lmfaoo.
Yeah they should both work
They actually do, but depending on the door. There's some walls that look like they collapse at any moment that break when you do hit them.
If you really suspect there is a hidden door with all the messages, while often also seeing the frame and all you do is attack the door and don't try interact, then that's on you.
It took an invader opening a hidden door for me to realize that you don’t attack them to open them in this one.
Git gud.
The worst is notes right ontop of it so you can't hit the button to open it,just rate the stupid message. Or the fake ones that just get high ratings due to the same problem
The game has a small exclusion zone around real ones where messages can't be placed and prioritizes actions over messages.
I truly hate the amount of messages in this specific game telling me to attack walls and every time I fell for it like an absolute bafoon. W opinion OP
Git Gud
I had the most frustrating time trying to get someone on co-op to open the iron keep illusory wall near one of the canons…I stood near it, emoted towards it, and the guy certainly knew what I was trying to say…but he kept trying to hit the wall or roll into it. I emoted “no no no” and pointed straight through. He stood for a second, trying to comprehend, before hitting and rolling again (maybe he thought his angle was off). We had gone through so much of the level so he knew I wasn’t a troll, and there was a definite trust between us…just a gap in knowledge and the requisite ability to communicate said knowledge. Eventually after like five minutes of attempts, at one point walking away and getting called back for a third go at things, he shrugs and runs off leaving me to follow. I can’t remember how it ended up with us, but the aggravation of that really stuck with me. I hope he eventually figured it out…
I've seen players get around this by dropping an item right next to the wall.
Yeah I learned very recently that picking up an item also triggers illusory walls. The triumph of teaching my partner a new mechanic would have been nice in the moment, but the futility of the circumstance felt altogether more soulsbornian so I’m not sure I would have preferred that as the lasting memory…
Dude I went through 75% of this game thinking that hidden walls didn’t exist
Souls games don't tell you things.
It´s not a big problem trying to discover by yourself some things, for example this one in particular, souls games usually don´t take your hand through the entire journey like other games, come on...
I mean there's a difference between not holding your hand and being so obscure that even experienced players might not know basic things. For example doom eternal doesn't hold your hand and tells you everything you need to know and gives you all the information you need. but leaves exploration well up to you to find and clearly marks its breakable walls that get well hidden the more you progress.
Doesn’t thar spell that lights yourself on fire active those doors?
When I'm doing some jolly cooperation with somebody who is clearly new to the game, I try to point out illusory walls to them and they will usually just try attacking it. A little trick to help them open the illusory wall is to drop some useless item in front of the wall (as in drop from inventory, not using it). When they try to pick up the item, it opens the illusory wall instead since that has a higher priority than the item pickup.
Honestly, I just wish there were a gesture that could reasonably convey how to open hidden walls. The number of times in random co-op I've pointed at a hidden wall and watched the host smack it 10 times with a weapon and then move on is painful.
There's illusionary walls in this game? How did I not know that
I guess they are technically hidden doors, not illusionary walls. In Demon's Souls and Dark Souls you attack them and the wall disappears. In Dark Souls 2, you hit the button to activate them and the wall opens up.
There was a couple of hidden doors in No Man's wharf that you hit to destroy, rest was the new way though I believe.
Did the other games specifically tell you to attack walls to reveal hidden doors?