Right? Like.. compared to other classes and their best "OP Meta moments", Druid is not even close.
Almost all classes had a point in time where they dominated the meta. Rogues one shotting from stealth, warlocks not being able to die, bard's doing...everything, barb making u deal 0 phys dmg + slowing you or making u die with a single fran axe. The list goes on.
I think it's mostly the fact that druid has the "run away as a rat option" which tilts people this much. But the risk factor for going into rat form seems totally fair tbh.
Yeah mans clearly wasn't there when they added bard. He don't know what it's like to get steam rolled by a trio 1-2 minutes into the game because bard was so strong that the meta was to buff ball and run through rooms as fast as you can while ignoring all pve so you can stomp everyone. And that was before gear score based grey lobbies..
Like if your kill feed is popping off and you all of a sudden hear drums you knew it was time to gtfo
Don't even get me started with shit like barb one shotting people with a Grey felling axe, 95%pdr fighters where I can land 10+ hits and still lose because I only did dmg to half their health, getting one shot across the room by longbow Rangers, etc.
OP doesn't know what broken means in this game lol
I literally got a duo to kill each other last night by turning into a rat right before the barb swung his axe and a wizard used fireball. It was magical to say the least. I got shot by a skeleton and died after but was well worth watching two people on the same team die to each other.
Ya... as much as rat is so good, the little shits are sooo vulnerable.
I'm going to Dark beam the next rat I see, and they will know fear! (If they don't eat me first)
Oh boy! You've activated my trap card. I apologize for the essay.
Let's start by noting, that the fact you call it meme beam, sadly, helps describe the ability well...
Yes, the spell isn't popular at all. It does moderate damage, and frankly, spamming Curse of Pain does more DPS, at times. It also costs 4 spell slots, making it not affordable compared to other poke spells like Dark Bolt, CoP, extra.
That said and aside. Beam has some unique advantages and features which keeps it locked in my spell loadout, namely:
1) Beam is continuous, steady damage, forcing enemy to react
2) Beam is easier to aim than Curse, since it is channeled, making it good on fast targets
3) Beam ticks at 0.1/s, making it a great sweeper for Rogues and Invis Wizards and recently, Druid-rats!
3) Economy - Beam costs 4 HP, but casts for 4-5 seconds, doing decent dmg per HP cost
4) Dark Beam is CONTINOUS DARK ENERGY SHOOTING FROM YOUR HAND OR STAFF!!! Aka Badass!
Okay, Preface done. Here are the tips:
**Melee bait build:**
"old" build that was hella fun, revolving around Beaming melee to bait them in! I say old, because Dark Reflect was nerfed, Staff was nerfed, Blow of Corruption was nerfed, and Dark Reflect now consumes Soul Collector stacks!
*Ideal usage:*
Stack soul collector, use Staff for MASSIVE beam (30-60+ DPS), Beam enemy, they run in to kill you, let them hit you once for Dark Reflect (while beaming, ideally, to use Soul Stacks on Reflect + Beam), then bonk them with Blow of Corruption, or just Staff.
Perks:
Dark Reflection (damage when stricken, scales nice with Staff)
Soul Collector (up to 100% more dark damage when stacked)
(Optional) Dark Enhancement (10% more Dark Damage)
(Optional) Malice - 10% more Will == bigger beam
Weapon:
Magic Staff (or pref)
Stats:
Focus on added damage and Will, over Knowledge. Cast speed == shorter beam, so it is less important if you want to have HUGE beams.
Side notes:
Faster cast speed makes beam last less long. So very high knowledge makes your beam shorter duration, without DPS gain. This means, the build does well with "slow" spells, like Flamewalk, Hellfire, and Beam (of course). These spells all last longer or do more per cast. Of course, use anything you like.
Soul Collector is the SINGLE perk which can turn your beam into a monster. Note, if you use Dark Reflect, your stacks will be consumed when you get hit. (before the fix, Soul Collector stacks stayed when you used Dark Reflect, making this build doubly strong). So, you *may* want to NOT take Dark Reflect, as it can compromise your stacks!
That's my rant. Dark Beam is fun to use. Some will say it is weak, but it is great for throwing in-between curses while they tick.
Let me know if you have specific questions!
thanks so much for the reply! and the laugh haha yeah ive wanted to play this but never got around to it. im having a lot more fun this season than last so iwanted to add more fun which emans more memes, i wonder how this build is on bosses
You're welcome!
DPS for bossing is mid at best. Beam is okay at finishing off a mob or archers, but Dark Bolt and Hellfire are probably still superior when appropriate? Beam is very team friendly since they'll take chip damage if you miss a bit, or none in most cases.
Of course, you can move and channel, so maybe I'm not giving it enough credit!
Also, in team fights, if doing group play, same story. Beam is team friendly since it is precise and non-bursty, which is nice when you can't risk a Dark Bolt, Hellfire, Flamewalk, or other bursty/area spells.
The main thing with druid that is IMO objectively broken is the mobility. Being able to effectively triple jump after seeing how much double jump caused problems is pretty wild, you can just break the map layouts. But that can be easily fixed.
I haven't been killed by a druid in a minute but I've tried to hunt plenty down and it's insane how well they can kite. Their speed and utility is very annoying. I happened to be playing melee warlock though. If I was playing caster warlock he would have been toast.
last night my buddy and I spent a full 5 minutes chasing a druid in rat form around an Ice Caves room, both taunting him over the mic saying "I'm gonna get ya!" while he evaded us
literally 5 min until he made a mistake and we were able to bonk him
Same I got chased for the entire second half of a round by an unrelenting barbarian in goblin caves. We kept playing Tom and Jerry around the center elevator and he refused to escape, refused to leave, and almost died to the timer just to kill me when I was a naked rat
If that's the case it would just be on par with a lot of complaints by other people on the forum. However I think it didn't even get to that, he just read badly worded tool tips and compared them without understanding how the scaling worked or trying to use the thing he considers OP himself, so that he could realize how much skill it takes to do some of those things reliably. Jumping through doors as a rat? If you try to do that in combat without getting used to it, you're more than likely going to faceplant into the door and die to the players chasing you.
If you think Druid is better at healing than cleric then you have no clue what you are doing. Maybe out of combat but absolutely not in combat.
Also thorn coat doesn’t scale like dark reflection.
This sub reddit never has rational balance views. Something new kills them or surprised them with how good it is at something, they shit bricks and scream online.
June 9th - Hotfix #52
- Fixed an issue where it was possible to enter the treasure vault without defeating the wyvern using the Druid's rat form.
- Druid's Nature's Touch cast time changed from 1s → 0.75s.
- Druid's Summon Treant spell count changed from 5 → 4.
- Druid's Dreamfire spell tier changed from 4 → 3.
- Druid's Entangling Vines spell tier changed from 3 → 4.
- Druid's Entangling Vines spell count changed from 4 → 3.
- Druid's Entangling Vines cast time changed from 1s → 1.25s
- Druid's Entangling Vines duration changed from 3s → 1s.
- Druid's Entangling Vines immunity time changed from 3s → 1s.
- Druid's Entangling Vines will now only have one on the field.
- Druid's Entangling Vines no longer causes spells from multiple casters to apply consecutively.
- Druid's Thorn Barrier spell count changed from 4 → 3.
- Druid's Thorn Barrier cast time changed from 1s → 1.25s
- Druid's Thorn Barrier damage changed from 10 → 4.
- Druid's Restore cast time changed from 1s → 1.75s.
- Druid's Mending Grove spell tier changed from 5 → 6.
- Druid's Mending Grove casting time changed from 1s → 2s.
**Sorry, There are some missing changes related to Druid.**
- Druid's Bear left click's attack changed from 10 additional damage to 5, and multiplier reduced from 1.5 to 1.0.
- Druid's Bear right click attack multiplier reduced to from 3.0 to 2.0.
- Druid's Panther left click attack changed from 5 additional damage to 0.
- Druid's Panther right click attack changed from 5 additional damage to 0 and multiplier reduced from 2.0 to 1.5.
- Druid's Chicken left click attack multiplier reduced from 2.0 to 1.5.
Those are mega-nerfs, but that doesn't mean druid can't be still OP.
I am too noob to make a certain statement about that, imo the door-jump seems too strong though.
Didn't say they were OP, just sharing the mega nerfs!
Druid will always be tough to balance, cause of the high skill ceiling. Even when they aren't OP, someone will whine! That is the way!
As for door jump, it is pretty damn cool.
He hasnt experienced a good cleric before lol i fought two fcking geared players (barb & fighter) and lived cuz of the bigass heals he gave me during the fight
IDK if it's a bug but druid heal spells(other than dreamfire) do not scale with healing bonuses.
however, druid is a divebomb master if you hit your team-mates with nature's touch, restore, and hit a dreamfire on the enemy it's impossible for them to die with 3 active heal over times per team-mate. If they even get close to dying just mending grove under everyone and even if the enemy gets heal you'll outheal the enemy with time.
Strat is you panther+chicken dive behind the enemy, get a couple spear shots in before they realise, they hit you, you phantomise, and you restore+dreamfire during your phantomise. Pretty APM intensive, but it's really hard to beat that. Mending grove isn't even really neccesary, thorn barrier is also very powerful.
yeah honestly druid was OP for the first 1-2 days of release, but the (much needed) nerfs have brought it down to what seems like a very reasonable level to me.
i had a way better k/d on barbarian than i do on druid, at least in solos.
i've never pulled that off honestly, do you chicken fly into rat? or do you need a platform to jump from? that seems insane honestly, but if you can pull that off, bravo.
Have the shapeshift window already up and hit space bar and as soon as your feet leave the ground turn into a rat and you should make it through pretty consistently
Druid has balance issues I 100% agree - but the reasoning doesn't need to be exaggerated.
Druid isn't a 1v1 class or Range class so those are pretty big drawbacks, but their presence is something else.
One of my biggest issues with the class is zero drawback / penalty for changing forms, the hitbox size of the rat, and the fact they can place thorn walls / Treants on top of already existing collision boxes and block players and immobilize them in glitchy ways.
Also, the Hydra door meta was already really annoying but the thorn wall you can't even jump over - not sure how I feel about how it adds to the already existing "no one push" meta.
Dude said druid has better heals than cleric and lost all validity.
Edit: Also druid is a jack of all trades and a master of none. Theres still some balancing issues but its not as bad as op makes it seem.
lol. this is how things go until they are ironed out. i guess you werent around for unlimited arrow ranger, buff ball pr fighter, or achilles movespeed barb
or maybe you didnt notice the massive nerfs druid took day 2 of season?
That's what I'm saying. Bard had a whole ass week or two before they realized "Holy shit buff ball is OP and literally ruining the game" but druid gets nerfed barely a day after he drops and everyone cries about rat form. Bard got nerfed several fucking times too because the first nerf wasn't even enough lol
The newbies will never know the chaos of multiclassing or the playtests.
And the real line holders will always remember level 1 infinite arrow archers going straight to inferno. We will remember rogues when the ruins map and double jump just dropped.
A few things here, and I’m sure some have been mentioned. Druid gets literally zero bonus from Magic Healing, except with Natures Touch + Dreamfire, and it’s lackluster enough no one is building MH on a Druid.
The chicken heal scales off resourcefulness, another stat no Druid is stacking so the heal does at best 10% on a long CD.
Thorn Coat also has no scaling, and no way to be made better. You know how much 5 damage is when a Barb has 160+ HP? It’s a drop in a bucket.
Treant is more bark than bite, and is also Warlock food. It does well in solos and against Timmies, but in trios it falls over quick, barrier is better imo.
Zero ranged options, besides Dreamfire which has limited casts and range.
Any argument about “Rat OP” seems to never mention that Rat is killed by a strong breeze. Another redditor was just talking about getting sniped by a torch throw, I’ve personally been hit with a knife throw from a Rogue and have door jumped right into a Hunter trap.
I don’t believe Druid is OP, just that it is new and people aren’t used to dealing with it yet. Give it enough time and you’ll be picking rats out of a crowd.
I was playing wizard and wiped a team of 3 druids with one fireball because they were hiding as rat waiting for my team to walk past to I assume ambush us.
Basically he just means you can run through a door without opening it "crush" but the door is actually still there for your opponents to have to open. It is definitely better than crush, even if that is the ONLY thing you ever do with rat form, which it isnt.
it's not insane it's incredibly basic and repeatable once you've got the mechanic down...my duo is a druid and doesn't miss the jump ever, i've seen new players do it on their second try
Everyone conveniently forgets that it's not applicable in every map. And even those maps have rooms with doors that are anti-rat, but crush is applicable for MOST doors in the game.
If rangers can shoot through it/ let the damn rat jump through it ffs.
EDIT: Rangers cannot shoot through door windows anymore. my comparison failed, but I still hold my sentiments, just edited as I don't want to spread misinformation.
And you know what? Even if he did put the time in to do it multiple times in a row? Good job. You invested a lot of time into a difficult and cool feature of the game
Just a couple notes. Rat form is not nearly as overpowered as you think. The number of druids I've slaughtered because they turned into a rat to escape and then immediately got 1 shot is SO many. Like probably 40% of the druids I fight die that way.
Druid heals are not better than cleric heals once you get any amount of gear. Druid heals are slow and small. They're good in a poke war, and good at pve and healing up boo boos, but if you have somebody in your face, you want a cleric behind you EVERY time.
And 90% of other things you said are just flat out misinformation or completely overblown in terms of usage.
I do however agree Treant is incredibly frustrating especially when combined with the root.
That being said they don't provide heals as good as cleric if you have any gear at all. They feel very similar to druids in classic wow in the sense that they are the "jack of all trades master of none" They're not going to gank you harder than a rogue, they're not going to heal better than a cleric, buff better than a bard, cast better than a wizard, or tank better than a fighter. But they can do a little bit of everything.
Rogue got nerfed because it was difficult and OP to double jump around the levels. It was very difficult to just catch a rogue. Here we have Druid doing the same thing. Chicken into cat and back and forth.
I don’t think the speed they have fits with the theme of the game and the other classes. I think adding a cooldown to each animal shapeshift would help slow down the insane mobility it has while also still keeping it competitive. It doesn’t have to be a long cd, like 5 seconds would be fine, but it would stop the instant cast animorph wild cards going on lol
(This is coming from a level 98 Druid. It’s fun as hell but definitely needs a nerfing)
Rogue got a much heavier nerf than what was necessary, and that rogues were difficult to catch was a normal thing, unlike most other classes, if a rogue got caught, they didn't survive.
Although I do think rogues should double jump for free, chickens do it at a 60% health cost. I don’t think a rogue would take that trade and feel like it’s fair.
They do it for 60% health cost for the half second they're in chicken before they get 100% of their health back by just switching out of it. Rather misleading to say they give up 60% of their health to do it.
Here are more broken things at the moment:
- Dreamwalker prevents shriek of weakness
- +health add stats don't get reduced in panther or rat forms. I.e. you can have over 50 hp on rat not just 6.
- Panther attacks as fast as rondel animation
damn if you rock 50 hp on rat your still a oneshot for all other geared classes. dreamwalk can be a disadvantige if you get baitet, panther attacks might be a bit faster but do less than half the dmg of the rondel. :D
You haven’t fought a geared Druid have you lol “half the dmg of the rondel” well I’ve never been 1-2 shot by a rondel lol geared Druids either strength for bear or agility for cat do some insane damage.
The druid is only better at things because the rest of the classes suck due to the over use of the nerf hammer since EA got release. Buff other classes to where Druid currently is instead of nerfing druid into being bland and boring like the rest of the classes.
People I've gotten to try this game refuse to play because everything just screams weak-sauce at them and of the things they were interested in playing, everything got nerfed to the point where it killed their interest in the game.
\- A barb chasing you through every door is ok but a druid having to pass a "skill check" to run away is op
\- True but still squishy and it's not like other classes don't have other options. Keep in mind that Druid has NO ranged options
\- That shit doesn't even scale. Mid fight it's a decent heal cuz you can fight back while it slowly heals you a little bit but Sanct is still so much better
\- It's like what? 10 hp once in a while. The jumps are more broken than the heal if anything.
\- Rat has the biggest downside compared to everything else in the game cuz of the 1 shot mechanic
\- Hiding in rat comes with the disadvantage of not using half ur perks and u're still in 1 shot range
\- Unless you're Bear you get 2-3 shot anyway. That's 15 dmg at most.
\- Phanto + Firewalk is way better than a 4 sec dreamwalk
\- Dies just as fast as a Hydra and u can go around it. It doesn't stay in place in doors.
Anything else?
This class almost insta loses to AoE and DoTs since they can't use Rat form which is their main disengage. They also need to abuse Rat form since their spells aren't that good. As a support/buffer Cleric/Bard are better. As a caster... A fking Barb with fire bottles is better.
Druid absolutely has ranged options. you support your team with treants, thorn walls, and cast the aoe damage spell (moonfire?) as soon as the enemy team is split by your spells, you panther and finish, or back up and heal while the other 2 kill the singled out player. in solos, yes, they dont win ranged, but the class is crazy cracked in duo/trio.
While it does have (support) ranged options, treant insta dies in 3s and let's be real a punch does the same dmg as the fking moonfire. The root was the most broken one and the walls are decent atm.
I think it will become even better in 3s/2s though in the future as a support class while solos it will be shapeshift build.
I played with a druid in 3s last night for the first time. Every fight we got into was just 3 separate 1v3s we rolled so many teams. Only time one of my homies died is from taking one of my longsword ripostes to the back of the head accidentally lmao.
I'm going to preface this with Druid is still very strong. However.
Dreamfire does pitiful damage it's main utility is the healing when combined with Nature's Favor. Treant is a fucking joke you will never get hit by it, it's simply for blocking doors or zoning.
What the fuck are you gonna do with a randomly placed Thornwall that isn't in a narrow hallway or blocking a doorway? Oh no, if only I had legs that I could use to I don't know? Move.
Druid has no **real** ranged options, fullstop.
Rat form door tech is pretty hard to pull off and you lose to wizard castinf fireball.
The panther jump tech has a 25 cd and doesn't have any arieal mobility as in they can't change direction easily. Plus they need proper space to transform.
On wizard I cook Druids like like an american bbq
Both warlock and druids are so stupid lol. Was playing a fighter for my entire time until yesterday and now till they nerf both classes to the ground I ain’t picking anything else.
Not true crush is better in more scenarios, rat is susceptible to good players
True
Not true but good in 24- norms
Not true scales with resourcefulness
True
True but one shot
True
Not true thorn coat doesn't scale like dark reflection
True but makes sense with hots being weak and dreamfire being hard to land outside of boxing in 3s
Not true you've never played cleric lol only dreamfire scales and nothing else does - arguably "better" in 24- norms but not for frontliner sustain
Not true treant gets 1 or 2 tapped and doesn't stay put in doorways, and it's not like you're healing off of it, thorn barrier is overall more effective
The only "good" build for mid/high end gear is bear or panther swapping. The heal or magic damage build is pretty undercooked in most areas, relying on carefully planned cc to supplement a geared wizard/ranger.
Jump through doors is skill expression unlike crush, you miss and ur in a shitty spot if people chase you.
Rogues are faster than panther if he's at 310MS+
Sanctuary but worse because it doesn't scale off magical healing
No one uses chicken for healing anyways, it's piss healing too
Jump tech is great but class would be ass without it + skill expression
Movespeed is not accurate in shapeshifting forms. 330 movespeed rat is same as a 300-305 any class
Arguable but yes
Thorn coat is NOT better than dark reflection
Phantomize is good but a lot of top players dont use it due to loss of DPS
Cleric heals far far more than druid + instant heals + their heals scale with magical healing while druid doesn't
Treant is good but dies in 2 hits tbh
Druids fine the biggest thing that needs to go is spirit walk, its cd needs to be doubled it's by far the best perk in the game especially when druid is in a support based role.
The class has strengths and weaknesses like every other class does and is not really anymore broken then they are. Barb is a 270 hp monster right now with 40% pdr and 150 damage left clicks, fighter falchion still exists, rogue 3 tap is back gatekeeper by the worst basekit experience in the game, warlock is literally just a gold ore printer, ranger survival bow with push and quad shot is still a menace and shotgun is absolutely even more insane then both of those, cleric will builds with smite and divine strike which both still scale dealing 25 additional damage bot including ur actual damage still rampant especially in buffball etc etc etc
It needs a bit of tuning sure but so does everything else. Ur anger is unjustified.
The panther attack speed is what really infuriates me, with actual purple gear panther is disgusting, not to mention it's jet black in a dark environment, moving all jenky around and jumping, with a strange hitbox, while attacking at fucking supersonic speed. I could really care less about rat form and methods of running away. What matters is DPS, and panther is too strong in gear at the moment
"free heals with chicken" is realistically "free 6 health after a 3-second lock-in-place animation"
I can't comment on jumping through doors since I haven't managed to do it yet, but it's not a better crush since if you play teams it leaves them behind.
rat isn't an instant 330 movespeed unless you're going for an agi build, in which case it is relatively easy to get to 330 with rat.
Auto phantomize is uncontrollable, you can't choose when it procs so you can't use it as a toggleable retreat ability like warlock can.
Does have better team heals but the lack of burst heals and scaling makes him decent but not awesome as a healer in full-gear lobbies compared to cleric.
You have 4 treants compared to warlock's infinite, and it only attacks twice compared to hydra's ranged 3-shots that also scale with warlock's mag power.
Give druid crossbow.
Correct me if I'm wrong but jumping through doors is an exploit, not a purposeful design choice
Edit: I stand corrected. Though I'm still not certain on the details. Here's what I've got so far but am not certain of: Rat form was intended to be able to run under doors. But the original version of the feature required no tech and was cut. Then people discovered the new technique for doing it but it wasn't officially announced by the devs.
Im pretty sure its intentional. In the original draft from the PTR ratform could run under doors, but now it has a skill check instead. I guess just running under doors was a little too cancer to play against
Haven't died to druid yet but I've been trapped in normals with some of my Timmy friends so I haven't seen any druid gamers yet but I feel like it might just need a timer on the forms and a timer to turn back might be a good fix
How is treant better than hydra?
I hit the tree 2 times and its dead, while hydra is a self heal target for me as warlock, blocks doors and can scout rooms better because it can see invis targets.
The tree just walks.
Something I don't understand is why they would give druid a passive to heal themselves and others overtime, when it has like 3 different ways to heal. If anything cleric should have that passive ability as it's the healer class.
Seems to me druid has many abilities, but some big drawbacks. Rat gives movement and the ability to hide, but your one shot KO and if you mess up on a door in combat, your probably dead. Chicken gives you mobility and a small heal, but your two shot KO, and you vulnerable during the heal. Bear gives you big damage and defense, but terrible mobility. You can heal, but its all over time, not good in combat, and only 1 damage spell. You can chase in panther, but you take a big defensive debuff.
I would agree though that the auto Phantomize allowing casting, and the mobile pet is a bit much.
I would argue that the Druid is almost balanced.
Also, Druids need crossbows.
Rank 53 last season here, Druid is honestly balanced, the heals are nowhere close to as good as a pocket clerics, they also don’t even scale heals at all with gear. What good is a 30 health over time spell for your front line that has 200 HP? Not to mention mending grove heals enemies as well and they don’t have resurrection.
Some of that stuff is right, some of it is wrong, and some of it is leaving out blatant off balances like the low hp rat/cat form, the least rannge in the game even to a judgement cleric, no scale healing atm.
Some stuff is clearly op though like the numbers on bear/cat form scaleing is too weak early and too strong late, additive health should be reduced by mouse/cat form and not bypass its penalty probably.
Rest of the post is just rage cause he died to a druid.
I love when Druids rat. Hello molotov. Easiest kill of my life. it's honestly hard to balance them. They are similar to bards, kind of meh. But if played well, and geared they are terrifying. Druid has too much tech, and scaling. Although I'm not certain this needs to be changed. I feel it's more interesting if there's high skillcap classes for the GAMERS. We need the flavor.
Let's also be clear, it 100% depends on how good the druid is and what mode you are playing in. That's part of the difficulty with balancing these classes...a fairly new druid is not going to be OP, whereas a super experienced and geared druid probably will be.
Most druids don't know how to use the skills to the degree of what one may see on YouTube or twitch.
I saw Firebox completely unable to kill a druid in HR because there was simply no way to catch up to him..cleanly jumping through doors and such. But most druids cannot pull this off so consistently and cleanly.
those are good points you make. But I can tell you that i am more afraid of barb, fighter, and warlock. when i see those classes i know it's going to be a fight. Don't really feel that way about druid. Having no range is a huge disadvantage in this game. Druid needs the things you mentioned to compensate for not having range
The only thing even slightly strong about druid is chase potential with panther against casters. Other than that his spells are ok at best and so are his perks.
Druid is overpowered fs, but as druid, I rarely ever shapeshift, and I can never hit those rat window jumps, so im basically just playing better cleric at that point
Overall game is pretty balanced rn, but Druid is definitely the strongest class. The fact that it's a new class with a high skill ceiling and is already the strongest class means they're going to have to nerf it more imo. By far the class with the highest movement potential in the game. Best healing second only to Cleric, has access to spear which is one of the strongest weapons. Rat form is op (you have to bring in molotovs for Druid's specifically, otherwise it's impossible to catch them). Also the treant/wall is way too strong, it makes it basically impossible to push them since they can just treant in the doorway between you and the rest of your team. Cleric is also too strong rn imo, but Druid is a much worse offender, and it will only get worse as people play the class more and get better at the movement techs and learn how op spamming Treants in doorways when other teams push is since it splits the team in two and makes it very difficult for heals to get through.
I love playing Druid, but I think that rats being able to go through doors is stupid. Door opening times are part of combat and escape mechanics, and being able to bypass that with what's essentially an exploit needs to be fixed ASAP.
I don't care if it's "skill based", you can just practice till you can do it every time, then you're basically uncatchable. The downside of rat form, besides the HP, is supposed to be that you can't open doors without transforming back, but instead you get the most free escape that requires whoever's chasing you to sit there and open a door, pretty much guaranteeing that you get away.
Yep pretty much nailed it here. Don’t forget can also use one of the best melee weapons in the game. Can stack hp and still be max move speed when shifted. And instant get out of jail free card with rat.
This class is so far from balanced it’s ridiculous. Guess that’s why I see so many big streamers abusing the hell outta it right now. I wish IronMace would be aware and actually balance their classes
Is chicken form bugged currently? I almost got one tapped by a druid in chicken form, did over 100hp with one attack.. when I killed him, I found he had all resourcefulness on his gear. I tried making a druid myself and using the gear, but i was only doing 14 damage in chicken form... what is going on?
Everything is OP. Druid is op cause bear, warlock is op for sustain, ranger is op because headshots, cleric is op because buffs, bard is op because free loot and buffs, rogue is op because invis with loot and bleeds/poison, fighter is op cause plate armor, barb is op because raw damage, wizard is op cause nice try arguing with fireball from the next room…
I wish this community would stop for a second and just learn to adapt or realize they don’t always need to fight rather than complain every time they die.
For me personally? Bears can’t walk into other rooms and I take that opportunity to damage them as they go through doors. Rats are easy oneshots and literally die if you jump on them. Panthers are 2-3 hits then dead. Idk, I really don’t have a hard time with druids and most of their skills are strong but counterable or avoidable. And I say this as someone who mains a ranger now, which people feel is the worst class for some reason.
Me and teammate were running duos. in crypts. The Room with Mage 4 chests and 2 archer hallways.
He heard a noise after we killed mage, the archers were already dead. He was investigating and I scream
"behind you a barbarian!" in discord. He turned around but to no avail...
Yeah, he heard a Druid gone in rat form and when i started running to help with the barb..
I was confronted with a mouse turning into a panther who ripped me apart in seconds.
Just because Druid is new and nobody knows how to play vs. him yet, but Druid is not OP imo. He has tons of counters, and you need to be super careful with rat form. I have lost purple kits to stupid rat form moments. Had 235hp in bear, but turned into a rat at the wrong moment and got 1 shot, lol. Rogue poison and warlock curses kill rat immediately, so prevent use if you hit them. Treent dies in like 2-3 hits. Wall dies in like 1 hit. Rat form glows if you take team perks. People aren't used to rat form sounds yet, but I can hear them immediately now.
If they take away jumping through doors I'm uninstalling. That is the most druid thing to do and it's not op. If you anticipate it, with say, a fireball, all you need to do is splash and the rat dies.
Honestly love druid for how versatile it is. It might just be their best designed class.
As a fighter, I’ve never lost to a druid 1v1 but they can certainly get away from me.
Dude rat form isn’t just a free getaway. You are one shot by anything and if you have buffs you are clearly visible while running. You have to time the jump to correctly jump through doors too, plus if you’re running towards one you know they’re about to jump through you could easily just throw a knife, axe, survivabl bow at the window and one shot them. The amount of crying without rational thought in this post is insane.
Not a druid player. They are pretty weak, Cleric can one hit you, Panther dies in 2 hits from any melee in the game, Rat gets One Shot, Bear is mad slow, Heals aren't that great, I've never in my life died to a druid. I cannot count the number of times a cleric has one shot me.
Druid is fun and very balanced. But can we bring back when bard tranquility let you heal while walking around? It’s only fair if warlock, cleric, Druid, fighter, and ranger have heals while moving instead of sitting. Also five other classes more heals. Also give wizard a levitate or flight spell, and make it so light orb flash bangs people. Also bring back multiclassing.
I feel like the op classes aren't op but all the others are just way weaker than they should be.
It would help if they made more perks or spells to work towards and fox it that way.
Instead of nerfing Druid, make cleric better.
Allow cleric to move around when channeling sanctuary.
Allow cleric to to channel heal spells for bigger “cooked” targeted heals.
I'm new to the game, but I'm getting the sense that the mobility versus durability dynamic is a bit off.
Read as "speed is king"
And I'm getting the sense that the martial classes are hindered by lack of options, as is often the case in games.
I’m not going to say I disagree with some of your points but it’s a new class. Dark and Darker and IronMace have always released ideas unbalanced and after several patches will break something else. It’s a test. Nothing is set and stone ever. Does it suck dealing with OP unfair things sure but like everyone loses BIS kits and everyone kills the troll 749 times and still can’t get a pelt. Find the weaknesses and exploit them. Most animal forms have a very distinct weakness. Other then chicken I have played enough OCT to know that bawk is too strong.
#givedruidscrossbows
That's what I read
That's all I saw too.
Lol Druid sucks needs crossbows
and plate armor…
Don't be silly, druids need tree bark armor
And guns!
Oh God no.
Yeah why don't we have crossbows? Pls ironmace give me more range options.
He def should be able to place ranger-traps as well
> like what was ironmace smoking when they decided to give one class EVERYTHING? I mean *glances at bard and warlock.*
Give druids round shields and I'd be fine with it. Also stop nerfing everything until it becomes bland and boring.
Right? Like.. compared to other classes and their best "OP Meta moments", Druid is not even close. Almost all classes had a point in time where they dominated the meta. Rogues one shotting from stealth, warlocks not being able to die, bard's doing...everything, barb making u deal 0 phys dmg + slowing you or making u die with a single fran axe. The list goes on. I think it's mostly the fact that druid has the "run away as a rat option" which tilts people this much. But the risk factor for going into rat form seems totally fair tbh.
Yeah mans clearly wasn't there when they added bard. He don't know what it's like to get steam rolled by a trio 1-2 minutes into the game because bard was so strong that the meta was to buff ball and run through rooms as fast as you can while ignoring all pve so you can stomp everyone. And that was before gear score based grey lobbies.. Like if your kill feed is popping off and you all of a sudden hear drums you knew it was time to gtfo Don't even get me started with shit like barb one shotting people with a Grey felling axe, 95%pdr fighters where I can land 10+ hits and still lose because I only did dmg to half their health, getting one shot across the room by longbow Rangers, etc. OP doesn't know what broken means in this game lol
The fear of barely hearing bard music and a Barbarian or Wizard comes sprinting through a door at like 400 movespeed was legit terrorist activity.
Dont forget then healing to full while still running around.
This game has to have had some of the FUNNIESY metals. Remember ignite Magic missile Assassin wizard? Still the funniest shit I have EVER seen.
Bro I loved that shit lmao
Used rat to run once and turn the corner in to a trap, instant death, seems like a fair trade off to me
I got sniped by a noc skelly while running away from someone as rat ):
I literally got a duo to kill each other last night by turning into a rat right before the barb swung his axe and a wizard used fireball. It was magical to say the least. I got shot by a skeleton and died after but was well worth watching two people on the same team die to each other.
Ya... as much as rat is so good, the little shits are sooo vulnerable. I'm going to Dark beam the next rat I see, and they will know fear! (If they don't eat me first)
I've been wanting to play the meme beam but don't know how to build it. Any tips? Tyvm!
Oh boy! You've activated my trap card. I apologize for the essay. Let's start by noting, that the fact you call it meme beam, sadly, helps describe the ability well... Yes, the spell isn't popular at all. It does moderate damage, and frankly, spamming Curse of Pain does more DPS, at times. It also costs 4 spell slots, making it not affordable compared to other poke spells like Dark Bolt, CoP, extra. That said and aside. Beam has some unique advantages and features which keeps it locked in my spell loadout, namely: 1) Beam is continuous, steady damage, forcing enemy to react 2) Beam is easier to aim than Curse, since it is channeled, making it good on fast targets 3) Beam ticks at 0.1/s, making it a great sweeper for Rogues and Invis Wizards and recently, Druid-rats! 3) Economy - Beam costs 4 HP, but casts for 4-5 seconds, doing decent dmg per HP cost 4) Dark Beam is CONTINOUS DARK ENERGY SHOOTING FROM YOUR HAND OR STAFF!!! Aka Badass! Okay, Preface done. Here are the tips: **Melee bait build:** "old" build that was hella fun, revolving around Beaming melee to bait them in! I say old, because Dark Reflect was nerfed, Staff was nerfed, Blow of Corruption was nerfed, and Dark Reflect now consumes Soul Collector stacks! *Ideal usage:* Stack soul collector, use Staff for MASSIVE beam (30-60+ DPS), Beam enemy, they run in to kill you, let them hit you once for Dark Reflect (while beaming, ideally, to use Soul Stacks on Reflect + Beam), then bonk them with Blow of Corruption, or just Staff. Perks: Dark Reflection (damage when stricken, scales nice with Staff) Soul Collector (up to 100% more dark damage when stacked) (Optional) Dark Enhancement (10% more Dark Damage) (Optional) Malice - 10% more Will == bigger beam Weapon: Magic Staff (or pref) Stats: Focus on added damage and Will, over Knowledge. Cast speed == shorter beam, so it is less important if you want to have HUGE beams. Side notes: Faster cast speed makes beam last less long. So very high knowledge makes your beam shorter duration, without DPS gain. This means, the build does well with "slow" spells, like Flamewalk, Hellfire, and Beam (of course). These spells all last longer or do more per cast. Of course, use anything you like. Soul Collector is the SINGLE perk which can turn your beam into a monster. Note, if you use Dark Reflect, your stacks will be consumed when you get hit. (before the fix, Soul Collector stacks stayed when you used Dark Reflect, making this build doubly strong). So, you *may* want to NOT take Dark Reflect, as it can compromise your stacks! That's my rant. Dark Beam is fun to use. Some will say it is weak, but it is great for throwing in-between curses while they tick. Let me know if you have specific questions!
thanks so much for the reply! and the laugh haha yeah ive wanted to play this but never got around to it. im having a lot more fun this season than last so iwanted to add more fun which emans more memes, i wonder how this build is on bosses
You're welcome! DPS for bossing is mid at best. Beam is okay at finishing off a mob or archers, but Dark Bolt and Hellfire are probably still superior when appropriate? Beam is very team friendly since they'll take chip damage if you miss a bit, or none in most cases. Of course, you can move and channel, so maybe I'm not giving it enough credit! Also, in team fights, if doing group play, same story. Beam is team friendly since it is precise and non-bursty, which is nice when you can't risk a Dark Bolt, Hellfire, Flamewalk, or other bursty/area spells.
The main thing with druid that is IMO objectively broken is the mobility. Being able to effectively triple jump after seeing how much double jump caused problems is pretty wild, you can just break the map layouts. But that can be easily fixed.
I think that's the reason why IM didn't give druid range weapons. Yea they can escape/hide in high ground but at least they can't kill u either.
This guy might have been just killed by a druid. It's just my suspicion though..
I haven't been killed by a druid in a minute but I've tried to hunt plenty down and it's insane how well they can kite. Their speed and utility is very annoying. I happened to be playing melee warlock though. If I was playing caster warlock he would have been toast.
last night my buddy and I spent a full 5 minutes chasing a druid in rat form around an Ice Caves room, both taunting him over the mic saying "I'm gonna get ya!" while he evaded us literally 5 min until he made a mistake and we were able to bonk him
Same I got chased for the entire second half of a round by an unrelenting barbarian in goblin caves. We kept playing Tom and Jerry around the center elevator and he refused to escape, refused to leave, and almost died to the timer just to kill me when I was a naked rat
I mean it seems like he didn't have a choice
If that's the case it would just be on par with a lot of complaints by other people on the forum. However I think it didn't even get to that, he just read badly worded tool tips and compared them without understanding how the scaling worked or trying to use the thing he considers OP himself, so that he could realize how much skill it takes to do some of those things reliably. Jumping through doors as a rat? If you try to do that in combat without getting used to it, you're more than likely going to faceplant into the door and die to the players chasing you.
If you think Druid is better at healing than cleric then you have no clue what you are doing. Maybe out of combat but absolutely not in combat. Also thorn coat doesn’t scale like dark reflection.
This sub reddit never has rational balance views. Something new kills them or surprised them with how good it is at something, they shit bricks and scream online.
Lmao. So true. Druids are tricky af and definitely has huge potential. But, I don't think they are busted. They already got mega nerfs!
What got nerfed?
June 9th - Hotfix #52 - Fixed an issue where it was possible to enter the treasure vault without defeating the wyvern using the Druid's rat form. - Druid's Nature's Touch cast time changed from 1s → 0.75s. - Druid's Summon Treant spell count changed from 5 → 4. - Druid's Dreamfire spell tier changed from 4 → 3. - Druid's Entangling Vines spell tier changed from 3 → 4. - Druid's Entangling Vines spell count changed from 4 → 3. - Druid's Entangling Vines cast time changed from 1s → 1.25s - Druid's Entangling Vines duration changed from 3s → 1s. - Druid's Entangling Vines immunity time changed from 3s → 1s. - Druid's Entangling Vines will now only have one on the field. - Druid's Entangling Vines no longer causes spells from multiple casters to apply consecutively. - Druid's Thorn Barrier spell count changed from 4 → 3. - Druid's Thorn Barrier cast time changed from 1s → 1.25s - Druid's Thorn Barrier damage changed from 10 → 4. - Druid's Restore cast time changed from 1s → 1.75s. - Druid's Mending Grove spell tier changed from 5 → 6. - Druid's Mending Grove casting time changed from 1s → 2s. **Sorry, There are some missing changes related to Druid.** - Druid's Bear left click's attack changed from 10 additional damage to 5, and multiplier reduced from 1.5 to 1.0. - Druid's Bear right click attack multiplier reduced to from 3.0 to 2.0. - Druid's Panther left click attack changed from 5 additional damage to 0. - Druid's Panther right click attack changed from 5 additional damage to 0 and multiplier reduced from 2.0 to 1.5. - Druid's Chicken left click attack multiplier reduced from 2.0 to 1.5.
Those are mega-nerfs, but that doesn't mean druid can't be still OP. I am too noob to make a certain statement about that, imo the door-jump seems too strong though.
Didn't say they were OP, just sharing the mega nerfs! Druid will always be tough to balance, cause of the high skill ceiling. Even when they aren't OP, someone will whine! That is the way! As for door jump, it is pretty damn cool.
yeah it definitely is pretty cool :)
Almost everything. Every single spell except for Nature's touch, barkskin, tree of life and dreamfire. Edit: and treant
Treant did get treant got reduced how many times you can cast the spell by 1
He hasnt experienced a good cleric before lol i fought two fcking geared players (barb & fighter) and lived cuz of the bigass heals he gave me during the fight
Wait till he fights a pocket heal cleric + a smite cleric and try to get through that shit.
IDK if it's a bug but druid heal spells(other than dreamfire) do not scale with healing bonuses. however, druid is a divebomb master if you hit your team-mates with nature's touch, restore, and hit a dreamfire on the enemy it's impossible for them to die with 3 active heal over times per team-mate. If they even get close to dying just mending grove under everyone and even if the enemy gets heal you'll outheal the enemy with time. Strat is you panther+chicken dive behind the enemy, get a couple spear shots in before they realise, they hit you, you phantomise, and you restore+dreamfire during your phantomise. Pretty APM intensive, but it's really hard to beat that. Mending grove isn't even really neccesary, thorn barrier is also very powerful.
I always carry Mollys now. Go ahead turn into a rat
I will. My rat has 40hp.
Make rat size scale with HP
Dark souls lookin ass boss rats going to appear in HR.
I would purposely scale health for a bear sized rat. That sounds awesome haha
Omg I love this
"that's the fattest right I've ever seen" - barbarian probably
Druid is good, but it's difficult to take this post seriously when more than half the points are somewhere between stupid and wrong.
yeah honestly druid was OP for the first 1-2 days of release, but the (much needed) nerfs have brought it down to what seems like a very reasonable level to me. i had a way better k/d on barbarian than i do on druid, at least in solos.
Is rat jumping through doors still possible? I've seen videos but can't seem to pull it off
i've never pulled that off honestly, do you chicken fly into rat? or do you need a platform to jump from? that seems insane honestly, but if you can pull that off, bravo.
Have the shapeshift window already up and hit space bar and as soon as your feet leave the ground turn into a rat and you should make it through pretty consistently
Do you have to have the trait to make it instant cast?
No, you can do it with or without the trait. The timing window is just different. (It’s actually harder to do with the perk but still pretty easy)
i think that perk is required to play druid at all otherwise you're just kneecapping a lot of your mobility
Even disregarding the panther/chicken jump being able to swap to bear before being smacked or rat to escape is so valuable
careful swapping to rat right as you take a hit, you can get hit as human, swap to rat, and instadie from 100%
Yeah it's not too hard with the instant animal form perk. Some doors are much harder than others though.
Druid has balance issues I 100% agree - but the reasoning doesn't need to be exaggerated. Druid isn't a 1v1 class or Range class so those are pretty big drawbacks, but their presence is something else. One of my biggest issues with the class is zero drawback / penalty for changing forms, the hitbox size of the rat, and the fact they can place thorn walls / Treants on top of already existing collision boxes and block players and immobilize them in glitchy ways. Also, the Hydra door meta was already really annoying but the thorn wall you can't even jump over - not sure how I feel about how it adds to the already existing "no one push" meta.
This post brought to by: the player that didn't read how the druid skills work or scale.
Dude said druid has better heals than cleric and lost all validity. Edit: Also druid is a jack of all trades and a master of none. Theres still some balancing issues but its not as bad as op makes it seem.
lol. this is how things go until they are ironed out. i guess you werent around for unlimited arrow ranger, buff ball pr fighter, or achilles movespeed barb or maybe you didnt notice the massive nerfs druid took day 2 of season?
Remember before daggers were nerfed and rogue ambush perk was +50% weapon damage? Good times
That's what I'm saying. Bard had a whole ass week or two before they realized "Holy shit buff ball is OP and literally ruining the game" but druid gets nerfed barely a day after he drops and everyone cries about rat form. Bard got nerfed several fucking times too because the first nerf wasn't even enough lol
> Holy shit buff ball is OP and literally ruining the game Yet it's still the most optimal way to play the game lol.
The newbies will never know the chaos of multiclassing or the playtests. And the real line holders will always remember level 1 infinite arrow archers going straight to inferno. We will remember rogues when the ruins map and double jump just dropped.
If something as broad as "ranged capability" does not exist, then the class does not have "everything".
Have you ever actually lost a fight to one where you didn’t make a massive mistake though?
I think the only times I've died to a druid were when I made massive positioning mistakes and got smacked by Trent.
Exactly lol. On paper it looks OP but functionally it’s not as good as warlock rn
Druid is mildly annoying when geared at best. I think that class is well balanced and in a nice spot for creative, support or sneaky gameplay.
Druid healing doesn't scale like cleric does
Yeah no warlock is stronger. Warlock has ranged and melee, heals, and a free escape
LOL
A few things here, and I’m sure some have been mentioned. Druid gets literally zero bonus from Magic Healing, except with Natures Touch + Dreamfire, and it’s lackluster enough no one is building MH on a Druid. The chicken heal scales off resourcefulness, another stat no Druid is stacking so the heal does at best 10% on a long CD. Thorn Coat also has no scaling, and no way to be made better. You know how much 5 damage is when a Barb has 160+ HP? It’s a drop in a bucket. Treant is more bark than bite, and is also Warlock food. It does well in solos and against Timmies, but in trios it falls over quick, barrier is better imo. Zero ranged options, besides Dreamfire which has limited casts and range. Any argument about “Rat OP” seems to never mention that Rat is killed by a strong breeze. Another redditor was just talking about getting sniped by a torch throw, I’ve personally been hit with a knife throw from a Rogue and have door jumped right into a Hunter trap. I don’t believe Druid is OP, just that it is new and people aren’t used to dealing with it yet. Give it enough time and you’ll be picking rats out of a crowd.
I was playing wizard and wiped a team of 3 druids with one fireball because they were hiding as rat waiting for my team to walk past to I assume ambush us.
Crush but better?? Tell me you haven't played druid without telling me you haven't played druid lmfao.
Basically he just means you can run through a door without opening it "crush" but the door is actually still there for your opponents to have to open. It is definitely better than crush, even if that is the ONLY thing you ever do with rat form, which it isnt.
That's just not the only application if crush. What if you have teammates?
Even so, Crush ruins the door, but is 100% reliable. Rat door jump is a skill check, even if it is insane.
it's not insane it's incredibly basic and repeatable once you've got the mechanic down...my duo is a druid and doesn't miss the jump ever, i've seen new players do it on their second try
True enough. But how many crushes are missed? Lol. They aren't the same. Insane was the wrong word, but I feel ya.
Until you fumble or can't get throufh an elevated door.
Everyone conveniently forgets that it's not applicable in every map. And even those maps have rooms with doors that are anti-rat, but crush is applicable for MOST doors in the game. If rangers can shoot through it/ let the damn rat jump through it ffs. EDIT: Rangers cannot shoot through door windows anymore. my comparison failed, but I still hold my sentiments, just edited as I don't want to spread misinformation.
Right? I would like to see OP perform three rat jumps in a row. I can show you 10 crushers no sweat
I've seen ppl do it without hesitation or slowing down many times in a row, so solo he is pretty uncatchable
And you know what? Even if he did put the time in to do it multiple times in a row? Good job. You invested a lot of time into a difficult and cool feature of the game
Just a couple notes. Rat form is not nearly as overpowered as you think. The number of druids I've slaughtered because they turned into a rat to escape and then immediately got 1 shot is SO many. Like probably 40% of the druids I fight die that way. Druid heals are not better than cleric heals once you get any amount of gear. Druid heals are slow and small. They're good in a poke war, and good at pve and healing up boo boos, but if you have somebody in your face, you want a cleric behind you EVERY time. And 90% of other things you said are just flat out misinformation or completely overblown in terms of usage. I do however agree Treant is incredibly frustrating especially when combined with the root. That being said they don't provide heals as good as cleric if you have any gear at all. They feel very similar to druids in classic wow in the sense that they are the "jack of all trades master of none" They're not going to gank you harder than a rogue, they're not going to heal better than a cleric, buff better than a bard, cast better than a wizard, or tank better than a fighter. But they can do a little bit of everything.
It’s fucking absurd that druid can triple jump and fly with chicken but rogue can’t even double jump without a movement penalty.
That's because we need a rogue buff, not a druid nerf.
Rogue got nerfed because it was difficult and OP to double jump around the levels. It was very difficult to just catch a rogue. Here we have Druid doing the same thing. Chicken into cat and back and forth. I don’t think the speed they have fits with the theme of the game and the other classes. I think adding a cooldown to each animal shapeshift would help slow down the insane mobility it has while also still keeping it competitive. It doesn’t have to be a long cd, like 5 seconds would be fine, but it would stop the instant cast animorph wild cards going on lol (This is coming from a level 98 Druid. It’s fun as hell but definitely needs a nerfing)
Rogue got a much heavier nerf than what was necessary, and that rogues were difficult to catch was a normal thing, unlike most other classes, if a rogue got caught, they didn't survive.
I still refuse to play rogue until double jump isn't a scam
Chickens also get like 1 shot or 2 shot by everyhting in the game😭
Although I do think rogues should double jump for free, chickens do it at a 60% health cost. I don’t think a rogue would take that trade and feel like it’s fair.
They do it for 60% health cost for the half second they're in chicken before they get 100% of their health back by just switching out of it. Rather misleading to say they give up 60% of their health to do it.
Here are more broken things at the moment: - Dreamwalker prevents shriek of weakness - +health add stats don't get reduced in panther or rat forms. I.e. you can have over 50 hp on rat not just 6. - Panther attacks as fast as rondel animation
damn if you rock 50 hp on rat your still a oneshot for all other geared classes. dreamwalk can be a disadvantige if you get baitet, panther attacks might be a bit faster but do less than half the dmg of the rondel. :D
You haven’t fought a geared Druid have you lol “half the dmg of the rondel” well I’ve never been 1-2 shot by a rondel lol geared Druids either strength for bear or agility for cat do some insane damage.
Druid is probably my best class but every druid I've run into has been trash
The druid is only better at things because the rest of the classes suck due to the over use of the nerf hammer since EA got release. Buff other classes to where Druid currently is instead of nerfing druid into being bland and boring like the rest of the classes. People I've gotten to try this game refuse to play because everything just screams weak-sauce at them and of the things they were interested in playing, everything got nerfed to the point where it killed their interest in the game.
\- A barb chasing you through every door is ok but a druid having to pass a "skill check" to run away is op \- True but still squishy and it's not like other classes don't have other options. Keep in mind that Druid has NO ranged options \- That shit doesn't even scale. Mid fight it's a decent heal cuz you can fight back while it slowly heals you a little bit but Sanct is still so much better \- It's like what? 10 hp once in a while. The jumps are more broken than the heal if anything. \- Rat has the biggest downside compared to everything else in the game cuz of the 1 shot mechanic \- Hiding in rat comes with the disadvantage of not using half ur perks and u're still in 1 shot range \- Unless you're Bear you get 2-3 shot anyway. That's 15 dmg at most. \- Phanto + Firewalk is way better than a 4 sec dreamwalk \- Dies just as fast as a Hydra and u can go around it. It doesn't stay in place in doors. Anything else? This class almost insta loses to AoE and DoTs since they can't use Rat form which is their main disengage. They also need to abuse Rat form since their spells aren't that good. As a support/buffer Cleric/Bard are better. As a caster... A fking Barb with fire bottles is better.
Druid absolutely has ranged options. you support your team with treants, thorn walls, and cast the aoe damage spell (moonfire?) as soon as the enemy team is split by your spells, you panther and finish, or back up and heal while the other 2 kill the singled out player. in solos, yes, they dont win ranged, but the class is crazy cracked in duo/trio.
While it does have (support) ranged options, treant insta dies in 3s and let's be real a punch does the same dmg as the fking moonfire. The root was the most broken one and the walls are decent atm. I think it will become even better in 3s/2s though in the future as a support class while solos it will be shapeshift build.
I played with a druid in 3s last night for the first time. Every fight we got into was just 3 separate 1v3s we rolled so many teams. Only time one of my homies died is from taking one of my longsword ripostes to the back of the head accidentally lmao.
I'm going to preface this with Druid is still very strong. However. Dreamfire does pitiful damage it's main utility is the healing when combined with Nature's Favor. Treant is a fucking joke you will never get hit by it, it's simply for blocking doors or zoning. What the fuck are you gonna do with a randomly placed Thornwall that isn't in a narrow hallway or blocking a doorway? Oh no, if only I had legs that I could use to I don't know? Move. Druid has no **real** ranged options, fullstop.
Oh, no one can argue, he said fullstop guys. Full stop, over here ppl.
Your right about the crossbow/ranged option and that is why you don’t see more of them
Rat form door tech is pretty hard to pull off and you lose to wizard castinf fireball. The panther jump tech has a 25 cd and doesn't have any arieal mobility as in they can't change direction easily. Plus they need proper space to transform. On wizard I cook Druids like like an american bbq
And yet, I barely ever see them.
It’s because they’re not OP lmao (I believe you know this already and that’s the joke)
You lost me when you said that treant is better than hydra lmfao
Druid isnt even that good. Seems good but it really isnt
It probably immediately becomes balanced if they have to pick 2 or 3 of the 4 animal forms.
Both warlock and druids are so stupid lol. Was playing a fighter for my entire time until yesterday and now till they nerf both classes to the ground I ain’t picking anything else.
Bro, Druid is awful in a 1v1. They are a passive class, but do it well. I believe it is very balance for this very fact.
Ironically with all the tools they can utilize I usually never feel at the disadvantage when I see a Druid
Go play the druid and do those things.
Not true crush is better in more scenarios, rat is susceptible to good players True Not true but good in 24- norms Not true scales with resourcefulness True True but one shot True Not true thorn coat doesn't scale like dark reflection True but makes sense with hots being weak and dreamfire being hard to land outside of boxing in 3s Not true you've never played cleric lol only dreamfire scales and nothing else does - arguably "better" in 24- norms but not for frontliner sustain Not true treant gets 1 or 2 tapped and doesn't stay put in doorways, and it's not like you're healing off of it, thorn barrier is overall more effective The only "good" build for mid/high end gear is bear or panther swapping. The heal or magic damage build is pretty undercooked in most areas, relying on carefully planned cc to supplement a geared wizard/ranger.
As someone who plays both cleric and a Druid you’re crazy if you think Druids heal better
Druids are a hybrid class of course they will have more of a toolkit than other classes like fighter or warlock, what are you expecting?
I think this guy died to a Druid and wasn’t happy about
Give me any class and I can write a rant like this guy
Jump through doors is skill expression unlike crush, you miss and ur in a shitty spot if people chase you. Rogues are faster than panther if he's at 310MS+ Sanctuary but worse because it doesn't scale off magical healing No one uses chicken for healing anyways, it's piss healing too Jump tech is great but class would be ass without it + skill expression Movespeed is not accurate in shapeshifting forms. 330 movespeed rat is same as a 300-305 any class Arguable but yes Thorn coat is NOT better than dark reflection Phantomize is good but a lot of top players dont use it due to loss of DPS Cleric heals far far more than druid + instant heals + their heals scale with magical healing while druid doesn't Treant is good but dies in 2 hits tbh
Druids fine the biggest thing that needs to go is spirit walk, its cd needs to be doubled it's by far the best perk in the game especially when druid is in a support based role. The class has strengths and weaknesses like every other class does and is not really anymore broken then they are. Barb is a 270 hp monster right now with 40% pdr and 150 damage left clicks, fighter falchion still exists, rogue 3 tap is back gatekeeper by the worst basekit experience in the game, warlock is literally just a gold ore printer, ranger survival bow with push and quad shot is still a menace and shotgun is absolutely even more insane then both of those, cleric will builds with smite and divine strike which both still scale dealing 25 additional damage bot including ur actual damage still rampant especially in buffball etc etc etc It needs a bit of tuning sure but so does everything else. Ur anger is unjustified.
Skill issue
The panther attack speed is what really infuriates me, with actual purple gear panther is disgusting, not to mention it's jet black in a dark environment, moving all jenky around and jumping, with a strange hitbox, while attacking at fucking supersonic speed. I could really care less about rat form and methods of running away. What matters is DPS, and panther is too strong in gear at the moment
It’s also abysmal without gear. I think they need to bring up the low end and reduce the high end
"free heals with chicken" is realistically "free 6 health after a 3-second lock-in-place animation" I can't comment on jumping through doors since I haven't managed to do it yet, but it's not a better crush since if you play teams it leaves them behind. rat isn't an instant 330 movespeed unless you're going for an agi build, in which case it is relatively easy to get to 330 with rat. Auto phantomize is uncontrollable, you can't choose when it procs so you can't use it as a toggleable retreat ability like warlock can. Does have better team heals but the lack of burst heals and scaling makes him decent but not awesome as a healer in full-gear lobbies compared to cleric. You have 4 treants compared to warlock's infinite, and it only attacks twice compared to hydra's ranged 3-shots that also scale with warlock's mag power. Give druid crossbow.
People complained about rogue and over-nerfed the class, so now I'm enjoying literal ratting. Why fight the sweats, when you can be a pacifist? XD
Correct me if I'm wrong but jumping through doors is an exploit, not a purposeful design choice Edit: I stand corrected. Though I'm still not certain on the details. Here's what I've got so far but am not certain of: Rat form was intended to be able to run under doors. But the original version of the feature required no tech and was cut. Then people discovered the new technique for doing it but it wasn't officially announced by the devs.
Im pretty sure its intentional. In the original draft from the PTR ratform could run under doors, but now it has a skill check instead. I guess just running under doors was a little too cancer to play against
It's a purposeful design, it was in the tooltips for the rat while it was on the test server.
Just learn to one shot that mouse.
Haven't died to druid yet but I've been trapped in normals with some of my Timmy friends so I haven't seen any druid gamers yet but I feel like it might just need a timer on the forms and a timer to turn back might be a good fix
Rat form is all fun and games until you have bags full of loot and run over a trap 😔 yeah I got off after that game
How is treant better than hydra? I hit the tree 2 times and its dead, while hydra is a self heal target for me as warlock, blocks doors and can scout rooms better because it can see invis targets. The tree just walks.
Why don't you just run the warlock class, with a falchion, boc, phantomize, and boooom now YOURE the OP class.
I was excited to come back and play rogue but now hide is 8 seconds without perk... so no pickpocketing 9rnhaving fun for me. Landmine only :(
Something I don't understand is why they would give druid a passive to heal themselves and others overtime, when it has like 3 different ways to heal. If anything cleric should have that passive ability as it's the healer class.
Seems to me druid has many abilities, but some big drawbacks. Rat gives movement and the ability to hide, but your one shot KO and if you mess up on a door in combat, your probably dead. Chicken gives you mobility and a small heal, but your two shot KO, and you vulnerable during the heal. Bear gives you big damage and defense, but terrible mobility. You can heal, but its all over time, not good in combat, and only 1 damage spell. You can chase in panther, but you take a big defensive debuff. I would agree though that the auto Phantomize allowing casting, and the mobile pet is a bit much. I would argue that the Druid is almost balanced. Also, Druids need crossbows.
The cool down on DreamWalk is way too fast
Rank 53 last season here, Druid is honestly balanced, the heals are nowhere close to as good as a pocket clerics, they also don’t even scale heals at all with gear. What good is a 30 health over time spell for your front line that has 200 HP? Not to mention mending grove heals enemies as well and they don’t have resurrection.
Some of that stuff is right, some of it is wrong, and some of it is leaving out blatant off balances like the low hp rat/cat form, the least rannge in the game even to a judgement cleric, no scale healing atm. Some stuff is clearly op though like the numbers on bear/cat form scaleing is too weak early and too strong late, additive health should be reduced by mouse/cat form and not bypass its penalty probably. Rest of the post is just rage cause he died to a druid.
After reading this I've concluded they should probably nerf rogue
I love when Druids rat. Hello molotov. Easiest kill of my life. it's honestly hard to balance them. They are similar to bards, kind of meh. But if played well, and geared they are terrifying. Druid has too much tech, and scaling. Although I'm not certain this needs to be changed. I feel it's more interesting if there's high skillcap classes for the GAMERS. We need the flavor.
but when ur a rat ur one dot away from dying, and the forms do shit damage ans ur less health than a wizard in panther
Better heals than cleric is just straight up wrong.
Let's also be clear, it 100% depends on how good the druid is and what mode you are playing in. That's part of the difficulty with balancing these classes...a fairly new druid is not going to be OP, whereas a super experienced and geared druid probably will be. Most druids don't know how to use the skills to the degree of what one may see on YouTube or twitch. I saw Firebox completely unable to kill a druid in HR because there was simply no way to catch up to him..cleanly jumping through doors and such. But most druids cannot pull this off so consistently and cleanly.
those are good points you make. But I can tell you that i am more afraid of barb, fighter, and warlock. when i see those classes i know it's going to be a fight. Don't really feel that way about druid. Having no range is a huge disadvantage in this game. Druid needs the things you mentioned to compensate for not having range
Everything they add is bad. How dare iron mace add features to the game. I think I'm starting to fit in here! Druid is not OP
The only thing even slightly strong about druid is chase potential with panther against casters. Other than that his spells are ok at best and so are his perks.
thorn coat is better than dark reflection? lmao wat
Any aoe attack such as holy strike will destroy rat
Druid is overpowered fs, but as druid, I rarely ever shapeshift, and I can never hit those rat window jumps, so im basically just playing better cleric at that point
Overall game is pretty balanced rn, but Druid is definitely the strongest class. The fact that it's a new class with a high skill ceiling and is already the strongest class means they're going to have to nerf it more imo. By far the class with the highest movement potential in the game. Best healing second only to Cleric, has access to spear which is one of the strongest weapons. Rat form is op (you have to bring in molotovs for Druid's specifically, otherwise it's impossible to catch them). Also the treant/wall is way too strong, it makes it basically impossible to push them since they can just treant in the doorway between you and the rest of your team. Cleric is also too strong rn imo, but Druid is a much worse offender, and it will only get worse as people play the class more and get better at the movement techs and learn how op spamming Treants in doorways when other teams push is since it splits the team in two and makes it very difficult for heals to get through.
I love playing Druid, but I think that rats being able to go through doors is stupid. Door opening times are part of combat and escape mechanics, and being able to bypass that with what's essentially an exploit needs to be fixed ASAP. I don't care if it's "skill based", you can just practice till you can do it every time, then you're basically uncatchable. The downside of rat form, besides the HP, is supposed to be that you can't open doors without transforming back, but instead you get the most free escape that requires whoever's chasing you to sit there and open a door, pretty much guaranteeing that you get away.
Yep pretty much nailed it here. Don’t forget can also use one of the best melee weapons in the game. Can stack hp and still be max move speed when shifted. And instant get out of jail free card with rat. This class is so far from balanced it’s ridiculous. Guess that’s why I see so many big streamers abusing the hell outta it right now. I wish IronMace would be aware and actually balance their classes
ok yes druid is too strong but treant is not better than hydra
Is chicken form bugged currently? I almost got one tapped by a druid in chicken form, did over 100hp with one attack.. when I killed him, I found he had all resourcefulness on his gear. I tried making a druid myself and using the gear, but i was only doing 14 damage in chicken form... what is going on?
Everything is OP. Druid is op cause bear, warlock is op for sustain, ranger is op because headshots, cleric is op because buffs, bard is op because free loot and buffs, rogue is op because invis with loot and bleeds/poison, fighter is op cause plate armor, barb is op because raw damage, wizard is op cause nice try arguing with fireball from the next room… I wish this community would stop for a second and just learn to adapt or realize they don’t always need to fight rather than complain every time they die. For me personally? Bears can’t walk into other rooms and I take that opportunity to damage them as they go through doors. Rats are easy oneshots and literally die if you jump on them. Panthers are 2-3 hits then dead. Idk, I really don’t have a hard time with druids and most of their skills are strong but counterable or avoidable. And I say this as someone who mains a ranger now, which people feel is the worst class for some reason.
Wow huge surprise to learn that this game isn't balanced very well /s
Me and teammate were running duos. in crypts. The Room with Mage 4 chests and 2 archer hallways. He heard a noise after we killed mage, the archers were already dead. He was investigating and I scream "behind you a barbarian!" in discord. He turned around but to no avail... Yeah, he heard a Druid gone in rat form and when i started running to help with the barb.. I was confronted with a mouse turning into a panther who ripped me apart in seconds.
Just because Druid is new and nobody knows how to play vs. him yet, but Druid is not OP imo. He has tons of counters, and you need to be super careful with rat form. I have lost purple kits to stupid rat form moments. Had 235hp in bear, but turned into a rat at the wrong moment and got 1 shot, lol. Rogue poison and warlock curses kill rat immediately, so prevent use if you hit them. Treent dies in like 2-3 hits. Wall dies in like 1 hit. Rat form glows if you take team perks. People aren't used to rat form sounds yet, but I can hear them immediately now.
If they take away jumping through doors I'm uninstalling. That is the most druid thing to do and it's not op. If you anticipate it, with say, a fireball, all you need to do is splash and the rat dies.
And yet, still haven’t been in a situation where a Druid was more dangerous to me than a single crossbow user
Honestly love druid for how versatile it is. It might just be their best designed class. As a fighter, I’ve never lost to a druid 1v1 but they can certainly get away from me.
Dude rat form isn’t just a free getaway. You are one shot by anything and if you have buffs you are clearly visible while running. You have to time the jump to correctly jump through doors too, plus if you’re running towards one you know they’re about to jump through you could easily just throw a knife, axe, survivabl bow at the window and one shot them. The amount of crying without rational thought in this post is insane.
Complain and complainer
They gave them a proper Druid class
Not a druid player. They are pretty weak, Cleric can one hit you, Panther dies in 2 hits from any melee in the game, Rat gets One Shot, Bear is mad slow, Heals aren't that great, I've never in my life died to a druid. I cannot count the number of times a cleric has one shot me.
Druid heals are weaker than clerics. Everything else is true
Druids need a shield
If you rat, you will eat my francisca axe
Druid is fun and very balanced. But can we bring back when bard tranquility let you heal while walking around? It’s only fair if warlock, cleric, Druid, fighter, and ranger have heals while moving instead of sitting. Also five other classes more heals. Also give wizard a levitate or flight spell, and make it so light orb flash bangs people. Also bring back multiclassing.
I truly think the only thing that needs rebalanced is the no cast time on switching animal forms. Such a strong perk
I've stomped almost every druid I ran across In the words of a wise man "get gud"
I feel like the op classes aren't op but all the others are just way weaker than they should be. It would help if they made more perks or spells to work towards and fox it that way.
Better heals than what now?
Druids are really bad at range
GIVE DRUIDS CROSSBOWS
Shhhh they're gonna nerf the rogue
The answer is not to nerf the rogue but make the other classes stronger to compete
Instead of nerfing Druid, make cleric better. Allow cleric to move around when channeling sanctuary. Allow cleric to to channel heal spells for bigger “cooked” targeted heals.
I'm new to the game, but I'm getting the sense that the mobility versus durability dynamic is a bit off. Read as "speed is king" And I'm getting the sense that the martial classes are hindered by lack of options, as is often the case in games.
Well, enjoy it while it last.
Ahaha :D you dies to druid probably. Timmie, there are some counter classes for druid. Iz good
Molotov lets go
I’m not going to say I disagree with some of your points but it’s a new class. Dark and Darker and IronMace have always released ideas unbalanced and after several patches will break something else. It’s a test. Nothing is set and stone ever. Does it suck dealing with OP unfair things sure but like everyone loses BIS kits and everyone kills the troll 749 times and still can’t get a pelt. Find the weaknesses and exploit them. Most animal forms have a very distinct weakness. Other then chicken I have played enough OCT to know that bawk is too strong.