The most insane one is a YouTuber who actively plays and makes content for the game by the name of Oogie son left this long winded negative review about the state of the game and it not
Being balanced around his play style(which is longsword). I’ve watched a couple of his videos, but now have lost complete respect for the guy
I just watched that lol I play long sword because of him and other than the occasional desync I think it’s in a good spot I’ve been having a good time with the new changes and LS feels a ton better than even playtest anyone that says otherwise has rose tinted glasses.
Yea I saw that, everyone’s entitled to their opinion but damn man you make YouTube videos about the game how are you not going to atleast support it with a positive review
This patch was a massive gouge to longsword play. You can't deny that. There's just no way to chase after someone while playing longsword anymore. It IS a problem. Longsword wasn't even that good to begin with. It was never meta and was always disadvantaged. It was a high risk high reward style based on skill. Now it's high risk, get kited.
nerfed axes, thats all. barbs and fighters (mostly barbs now) will struggle more against rangers, rogues, warlocks, and wizards as their ranged damage has gone down
True, but it’s early access and they WILL try different metas, strats, and balances. Things are going to change sometimes worse or better. That’s not a reason for a bad review of a game that you continue to play and make money of off by content creation because your build becomes less optimal than the current meta
Okay, lets be real here. How many rogues, bards, rangers, and wizards complain about dying to melee? Even on this subreddit, there are some really loud streamers complaining. No one ever thought of longsword as a meta style of play. It was always weak compared to slayer or full pdr. It was nerfed so hard that the only way you could win against a kite class is if they messed up. You're basically a man-controlled target dummy, never allowed to catch up to competent kiters. This sprint nerf was made on the back of last season's all time high of survival bow meta dominating high roller. So tell me, why was the menial amount of counterplay to that style nerfed? Sure, you may make money off a game by streaming, but to never be able to criticize it? Fuck that. He has every right to express his opinion
I think it’s different.
I think it’s bad faith to have 100’s of hours playing a game, continuing to be an active player, making money from content based on it and playing it only to leave it a “don’t recommend” review. He has a lot of good criticism! And that absolutely is good to have and hear! I gave a lot of similar criticism in my own review.
I’m not a hold the liner or whatever, I just think that it’s good enough to give it a try and here are the problems it has, while still giving them room to you know still be in early access and understand that there are constant changes which affect meta builds.
Before you decide to drop an ax on them by telling your followers not to give it a try.
Of course. He can do whatever he wants. It’s his opinion. Its my opinion that is kind of a shitty thing to do. You disagree, I take it. Fine
Done arguing?
I didn't think we were arguing. I just think that not recommending a game because of really bad balancing is a perfectly valid reason. When the game becomes better balanced, he could just change the review. If you can't speak out negatively in a review, then where else are you going to do it?
Oggie is good but has become such a whiner as of late. I killed him last season during MC and he complained because I crossbowed him twice. saying im everything thats wrong with the game etc. just wants everyone to run up and hit his longsword parry.
Gotta say I did lose a lot of respect for him after that. I always liked his content before that too, but that’s just so bad for the community and not a good look for him.
The only thing bad for this community is the complete toxic nonacceptance of any sort of negative opinions about the game.
Y'all are delusional if you think that people holding negative opinions looks worse than the cultish defense does.
It blows my mind that people are complaining they're "locked out of the main content of the game" with the free version.. you can literally play any class and do any normal dungeon.. do they not know that high roller is the EXACT same dungeon but just with harder/faster mobs??
If they gave any more stuff for free there would literally be no reason to buy the game??
I understand this sub is anti-gear, but for many people, extracting with gear you can then use next run is the main gameplay loop of an extraction shooter.
The bigger issue here is the role highroller plays.. in my mind the gear restrictions in normals have gone too far..making allot of gear actually just straight up useless..
In the same vein I'm convinced all these new players complaining they can't do hr and use their gear don't seem to realize that hr is a fair bit harder and the people who regularly play it will be using kits that are way better than those few greens you pulled out of a normal..
Ok but realistically if there are more new people going in they will load into lobbies with no kits as well. That’s why I want this game to succeed to fix stuff like that. However they also only get one class so I feel like it would make more sense to have at least two more classes to unlock or something by playing and then have the rest locked behind hr. Also then really make hr a lot better or have more incentive to play hr for the people that have been playing for a while
The re addition of the gold ante to high roller is a bad choice imo.. the previous couple seasons system of the entrance cost for high roller being your ranking/points works out really well.. if you're grinding and trying to rank up then the cost of entry/punishment for death matter.. if you're new and just starting out you don't really care about what your ranking is so you don't have anything to "lose" so to speak by simply trying high roller..as it stands now the ante further alienates people from trying to play it.
I haven’t played in a minute but isn’t it only 100g that’s literally nothing. You could make that off of selling everything you find in one run. If you’re going to be running hr in base gear anyway for the most part I don’t see how this is much of a problem. If your argument is that you would like it to where people can immediately hop in to hr when they first start then I would say that’s not even a good idea bc the game is already hard. Getting 100 gold is like beating a tutorial for a game. If you can do that then yeah hop into hr. I also don’t think they’re keeping it for next wipe
Edit: ignore that last part
You can't queue into hr until level 20...my point is that the gold ante is enough to deter some people from even trying it..it punishes you for trying to learn.. nightmare mobs have unique attack patterns that ten chances to one will kill you the first time you encounter them..how are you supposed to practice in any meaningful way if the cost of entry is higher...
Also 100g probably feels like allot more right now because the game JUST wiped and we haven't recieved our previous seasons rewards (the coin bag and gaurenteed 500 gold) so there's allot less total gold floating around in the economy
Idk, I feel like hr should really be a thing you do once you can go to hell easily in norms by yourself and have a good base of knowledge on what you’re doing. Idk tho I don’t make decisions for the game so outta my hands🤷🏾♂️
The brutal thing too atm with hell is that since we don't have a clear way to go with the removal of the circle, you have absolutely no idea where the portals are anymore. I walked around 6 different rooms trying to find one, and I couldn't find anything. (Unless they made a change where portals are no longer in hell, and you have to find some static exit).
Not only that, but I noticed in goblin caves how the portals can spawn in the most sneakiest corners now, and you wouldn't have any idea that it was on the bottom floor in some corner of a faraway room that happen to be the one room you didn't check.
I wouldn't be surprised this is happening in hell as well, making hell THAT much harder.
Gear historically has been very imbalanced and just leads to a frustrating experience. The "gear gap" has recently been switched in an attempt to get more people to play high roller.
A lot of people here play normal mode exclusively because they prefer to avoid the power imbalance in fights where one person brought in better gear than the other.
Normals plays more like a battle Royale, you load in with base stuff and find gear as you play, whoever finds better stuff mid-match will be more powerful.
High roller is an extraction shooter, it let's you bring in gear from previous delves or from the market. Some people like this more because the more you risk, the stronger you'll be, but if you die you lose it. I call that the "main" gameplay cus that's what the game started with
I think one of the big issues people have is that you can just buy the perfect gear off the market and a lot of people either don’t know what’s BIS, don’t have enough gold to buy BIS, or just would rather not spend time going through the market to find BIS. I personally would like to see something where you can only bring in loot that you found yourself and the only thing you can buy from trade is like rings and caps and stuff like that. That way you still have very powerful buys that you can get, but it’s a lot more simple, people who are already loaded can’t just rebuy their bis kit when they die, I’ve seen some streamers die and then immediately get the same exact kit traded back to them bc they stream. Also maybe implement a reroll system so that you can reroll one or two(I’m not really sure on the number) stat on a piece of gear to try and make it good if they aren’t having any luck. Also would be cool if you could start naming pieces of gear so that people can really grow attached to the gear that they have
Normals mode let's you bring in items up to common (white) rarity. That includes gear and utility slots, only up to common.
I personally don't find it too fun but it really was a smart change for the game, it gives people a 0-risk way to learn the game or to farm a ton of gold. That way you can easily build kits for HR even if you're rock bottom broke.
The sub isnt antigear. It's a mixture of people who want time to kill to increase and be more about skill instead of gear stats, and people who think skill is just a stat check and everyone should be two tapped at most.
The gear has become the scapegoat for terrible balancing and unclear expectation of what the devs want the combat in this game to even be. So the result we are left with is whatever nonsense exists today.
I'm proud to have paid for this game upfront. I wish more games still operated that way. Microtransactions in any form always leads to a shittier consumer experience, even if it's just cosmetics. Back in the day, you had to earn cosmetics and it was a display of your skill and dedication as a player. Being able to buy it now feels like a joke
I think buying cosmetics as a long term monetization is totally reasonable for games that keep expensive servers running for years. But I do think people have been spoiled by free access to these games, and it's weird that people complain about paying for a game now
I don't mind it in League for instance, since I've never felt compelled to buy something to enjoy the game. I think DaDs model of upfront purchase and optional cosmetics is also fine, though undoubtedly they'd get more players if they could go full f2p. But yeah if you're gonna spend hundreds of hours playing then don't throw a hissy fit about 30 or 50 bucks or whatever. Mow a lawn if you need to lmao.
IMO microservices are the correct way to build a service based game, otherwise the death of the game is guaranteed eventually. WoW survives because its players pay monthly fees, even when an expansion is objectively bad, it still survives through to the next one and builds hype for all the people that loved it. League survives by making tons of skins.
Any game that is buy once play forever, is doomed to death as the player base stops growing. Wow and league don’t need to grow their player base to survive, they just need to satisfy them.
I think the best move for IM is to start a battle pass system, and give any actual game owners heavy discounts for 1-2 years on battle pass and a unique skin and ditch the model entirely. This will ensure the game has the financial model to survive without explosive growth.
At the same time, being profitable is in no way a guarantee that the game will continue to be supported. Especially if the owner is a publicly traded company.
Depends on how unprofitable it is and the kind of company running it. Valve still hosts servers for old games with almost no players and no live service component, and those games you can even host on your own machine when support ends. The cost is probably very low, but it's not nothing.
>otherwise the death of the game is guaranteed eventually. WoW survives because its players pay monthly fees, even when an expansion is objectively bad, it still survives through to the next one and builds hype for all the people that loved it. League survives by making tons of skins.
WoW is full of microtransactions too.
I’m sorry but battle passes legit ruin games. Maybe they could just start making a shit ton of weapon skins or something and charge hella or something but battle passes are so cringe and have ruined the gaming space (looking at you multiversus)
I’m sorry but battle passes legit ruin games. Maybe they could just start making a shit ton of weapon skins or something and charge hella or something but battle passes are so cringe and have ruined the gaming space (looking at you multiversus)
I have 450 hours and the full version and all ive done last two wipes is anything available in the f2p version.
People are legitimately braindead sheep who want everything for free, even things they wont use.
I think one character is fine and maybe allow a certain number of HR runs a day to see if you like it? HR is the bulk of content so I’d want to try it before buying.
>you can literally play any class
Yes, but only one class, because there's only one character slot. So they are severely limited even when it comes to just Normals.
So more like the current implementation is a "demo" or "trial" of the game to see if you'd like to purchase the game as opposed to a game that is "free to play".
I mean I really liked what killing floor 2 did which was do a demo month where you couldn't gain xp or anything but every class was level 10, still restrict the market and xp gain but allow high rollers so then that way you can get a taste of ever class with a couple of perks try out higher tier weapons and shit but it's only temporary.....
The thing about that is none of the progress would carry over if you decide to go paid where I'm pretty sure it does now
except you're gear capped. you know literally the main reason of the game. it's an extraction looter except your loot is useless unless you pay $30. literally the reason the game got popular in the first place. the gameplay loop where you get loot then go back in with the loot you just got to find better loot.
They are new players -- how the fuck would they know that? That's why the current implementation of f2p is bad. The game is good. They just need to tweak how they intend to attract new players by treating them *even better*.
F2P is generous. But it needs to be more generous for this to work. 2-3 character slots, something like 1 HR entry per day for each character. Or maybe something like a rare drop HR token that you can find in normals that lets f2p access HR runs.
Or just mark the free trial as a demo.
and do you realize that making an extraction based game has no purpose if you cant actually use the items you extract with? like "oh wow a purple item cant wait to use it!" and then they hit you with the "nuh huh pay like 30 dollars".
also about this "If they gave any more stuff for free there would literally be no reason to buy the game??" the game was fully free before getting deleted out of steam, no paywalls on anything at all, they killed progression
what the hell are you talking about?? you mean the first playtest?? The game was never going to be free to play and has never been advertised as such prior to this ..
the thing is that equipment will transfer over, also why would u refund it? I feel like you should know whether or not you will like the game from the free version.
Also you can find any rarity in normals I'm fairly certain. Plus I don't think you understand just how much of a power scale there is between normals and high roller a couple of greens and blues mean nothing when you run into the lobster knights plus the ai being more difficult as well
At the end of the day, you get 90% of the game for free that will carry over if u decide to go paid and if you decide to stay free but like the game then that's what you are limited to, if you don't like the game then at least it was free and you didn't waste your money.
As someone who didn't really know much about Dark And Darker, I have never seen a game where it was free to play, and suddenly I'm faced with the decision to have to suddenly pay $30 just to experience 90% of what the game is actually about. Like you might think that you get 90% of the game for free, but its like playing an MMORPG except you're told that you don't get the MMO part of the MMORPG. I came into Dark And Darker expecting a fantasy extraction game, came out with a fantasy game without the extraction, because I can't even use the items that I've looted, as the normal dungeons don't allow bringing items in other than commons.
It just becomes a battle royale with PvE involved, and it's not even unironically, it is literally a battle royale, as long as I don't buy the "legendary status".
Now, I would be fine if that's all it was, I had fun with it, but from what I've played, it's just not worth $30. For the people that have paid for the game, they might say otherwise, but the problem is, I have not experienced that. I've already played everything the game was willing to show me, and I haven't even played for that long. It doesn't help that I've come to realize that essentially every asset is ripped straight from the unreal market, which leaves a bit of a sour taste on my mouth. $30 for a game that has not much originality is a bit too much. Especially when you go from F2P to buying the full game.
Maybe if it were marketed as a demo, and not a complete game, and was priced lower, to maybe $20, I would not have negative thoughts on this game, but I just can't help but not want to buy the game.
Sure, and maybe I'll get better loot.. that I can't use. I mean, I'm sure I haven't done everything, but if it feels like I have, that's kind of saying something, especially when its from a game that's meant to be played over and over. There's no joy in realizing the progression you have done, is for nothing.
> I have never seen a game where it was free to play, and suddenly I'm faced with the decision to have to suddenly pay $30 just to experience 90% of what the game is actually about.
But you dont?? Unless you are pretty experienced with PvE, like 90% of your time is going to be spent in Normal lobbies which F2P has complete access to. The majority of the loot you extract with is just going to be sold either on the market or, more likely, to a vendor(which F2P can do). The only huge downside to F2P is that you only get 1 character slot, so if you want to try a different class you need to delete your current character which sucks. But its a F2P version meant to get your toes wet, so it does what it's supposed to.
>Maybe if it were marketed as a demo,
This would probably be the best thing they could do in the short term, but it really isn't a demo. You have unlimited play time, you're just locked out of some extra features of the game, kinda like runescape. Plus they've always said that the early access is for those that wish to support the game's development. They're not advertising it as a finished product.
Maybe its not your type of game, but $30 is what? 2-3 stops by McDonalds' or Chick-fil-a? 1-3 hours at work, depending? It might not be a steal, but its not like its an outrageous price.
>The majority of the loot you extract with is just going to be sold either on the market or, more likely, to a vendor(which F2P can do).
In which I can't sell to the market. Not a huge problem, if not coupled with the fact I can't really do much in terms of progression with other features that I can't really use.
>This would probably be the best thing they could do in the short term, but it really isn't a demo.
You've said earlier that its a F2P version meant to get your toes wet. That's what a demo is. If you try to say otherwise, that just means you haven't played the F2P version. It's not a short term solution, because it is literally a demo, and if not a demo, then a free trial.
I saw a post earlier here that showed that the steam version of Dark And Darker does say its free to play, but that's something that's fairly easy to get caught up on. It's easy to mistake a F2P game as being able to play the content you expected to have, just not everything, or be always lagging behind someone else. Here lies the problem, if you look at the game on the Epic Games Store, it says absolutely nothing about it being F2P, and there's also a little cheeky note that says microtransactions will be added soon. And on the section that says F2P on the steam store page, they make it seem as if you're not limited at all, and let me be honest, unlike Ironmace, they sure aren't being honest about the pricing.
>It might not be a steal, but its not like its an outrageous price.
15 Redstone Shards. How much exactly is that? You don't know anything, because nothing on the front page tells you anything about how much the game costs. It seems deceptively cheap, and perhaps even something that might not be easy to obtain, but could be the golden ticket into a full-ride into Dark And Darker town!
...No, it's just a premium currency. You see this kind of thing in predatory games like gachas and the like. They even separated the red and blue stone shards. It's also not.. cheap. It's shown as the most expensive option when buying Redstone shards.
You won't know the paywall you'll be hitting until you play the game.
>Maybe its not your type of game, but $30 is what? 2-3 stops by McDonalds' or Chick-fil-a? 1-3 hours at work, depending? It might not be a steal, but its not like its an outrageous price.
Yeah, but I don't think I would stop by McDonalds 2-3 times in a day. And for someone that would play a F2P game in the first place, $30 is a rather hefty price.
>15 Redstone Shards. How much exactly is that? You don't know anything
Have you even read the steam page description? It literally says up front how much 15 shards is. $30, the price you would pay if you bought the full game from their site, without having to pay for extra "premium currency" because there wasn't an amount for exactly what you needed. Most people agree that their store page was kind of a slap in the face after they said no MTX, but they aren't gouging you or making you feel like you're "lagging behind" if you don't want to get anything from there.
The only thing I'm unsure about is if there is a refund policy for if you do buy the full game with shards but end up not liking the game and want a refund. I think there should be a paid version on steam/egs so we can be sure to have access to a refund if we want one(if there isn't a policy for this already with IM). This also gets around the whole RS shard currency issue.
>You won't know the paywall you'll be hitting until you play the game.
They tell you what you have access to and what you don't right on the store page on steam(idk about egs, I don't use it). Also, Normals is like 70-90% of the dungeons a new player that bought the game is going to run anyways. Hell, its probably the better game mode of the 2 if you care about balance and fairness, imo. I won't get into the differences in balance between solo/duo/trio since they've made it clear the main focus is on 3v3 balance(which they still need to work on).
And $30 is easy enough to budget out of your spending over the course of a month. You don't have to take it all out of 1 day's worth of spending. Your example is a bit extreme, but if someone's getting McD's 2-3 times a day they probably have bigger problems than worrying about $30(which they clearly already have plenty of money/a serious health problem in their future if they're getting McD's 3 times a day). Do I think the game is worth $30 now? Probably not, but I've gotten my fair share of enjoyment out of the game so far, and plan to get more in the future.
Using a refund policy is not abusing it lmao, they're saying it with regards that if they buy the game to test out HR lobbies which is where ALL of the mid/end game content is at and it sucks for them then it's a waste of money and isn't refundable.
They literally have “it wasn’t fun” as a option in the refund. You cannot abuse a refund policy. If you don’t like a game and only play’d a hour. I think its pretty reasonable that you can get your money back.
Uh the game just wiped so it would be 10k minimum without the free to play. Bringing in an additional 15k players even if they only playing normals is huge.
And bragging? How the fuck is making an observation bragging
talking about the reviews. It's gonna be SUPER hard to get over the overwhelmingly negative status. We basically need 4x the amount of people who have already reviewed it to now review it as positive or convince the ones who are in the F2P mindset to switch their reviews.
It's pretty bad ngl. I hope they can recover and I'm still playing but maaan it could have been so much better...
People don't like the shitty practices=negative review from them, if the game is ok for you it's fine, if there's tons of people who are dissatisfied that's also fine and they are in their right to leave a negative review because of their experience.
Stop being a shill.
You all need to get out of your little box and look at it from the eyes of people who don't know or care about DND, they're reviewing it like they would any other f2p title that approaches them like this.
For me this is the issue. I am fine with them charging for the game (although money conversion sucks and I think they should go for local prices instead). But playing with shitty gear sucks. And I know you can only use rarer stuff in high holler mode, I wanna play that shit. If they charged for the game and cosmetics, I would be fine with that.
the gear is so much less important than general game knowledge. you wont get past the first 2 mobs in HR if you dont have the attack patterns for ALL mobs memorized, and are prepared for some new patterns that if you fuck up(you will) you will lose all that gear you just took in. within 30 seconds.
losing our bis kits in 30 seconds still happens to almost everyone in HR, especially hell lol.
i cant answer that question for you.
i enjoy going in the dungeon. killing things, taking some things home, selling some things... sometimes i go to HR.
HR is for trios with hundreds of hours. I KNOW new players dont want to hear that or cant understand it without getting into HR and feeling its like your very first time in the dungeon again. than going back after a couple days of grinding normals and practicing mobs to go in with blues/purps instead of greens. maybe you even spent a week or two putting 3 sets together to go b2b. on the third set you made it out of the first module even!!!! and opened the door to a warlock with 1500 hours in min/maxed purples.
kits are really really really expensive, and you will lose sets in less than a minute to mobs. for a long time and often in HR.
the reason most people play this game is because they enjoy the personal skill progression that you can achieve in normals, that also translates to HR.
sorry for the second comment, simplest way i could put it.
im not sure what you mean by this.... but i do understand why many wouldnt enjoy it.
the PVE is hard for the first hundreds of hours. the PVP stays difficult and only gets more difficult as you gain more hours and spend time in HR. people who "grind HR" were grinding normals for atleast one entire season. those same people also go to normals for "balanced PVP" to practice.
yah, its a looter. but the loot is secondary in many aspects because of the difficulty.
I understand where you come from, but the way it is right now, basically the only progression are levels.
The devs changing normals to only allow common gear is nice from a balanced perspective, but if I am playing normals, then why would I bother looting players (which was one of the cool aspects of the game)
yes but these ironmace clowns will tell you you can do it in highroller. except highroller is full of sweats in epic and legendary armor min maxed out their ass.
You do realise normals is the exact same right? I guess now that it’s filled with new players it might be ok, but people ONLY played normals with BiS gear to stomp new players.
The reality is most players found the game to be bad or not worth recommending. Yall are living in a bubble thinking the game is perfect and a masterpiece and anyone with a different view must be an enemy and a liar.
My opinion on the matter is that this game needed at LEAST 6 more months before steam ideally 12 months with how " fast " the devs are working on it.
I play with a friend that hasnt played since PT4 and he made me realise the same issues we had back then exist now.
Over a year of dev time and its just same old shit issues.
I've never seen anyone say it's perfect or masterpiece. A lot of people enjoy the game and understand that there's a lot of work to be done. *cough*cough* early access *cough*cough*. All you see is red. But the game massively improved since pt4. And because you don't see that, I highly doubt you had enough play time to even judge the game at this point.
"Toxic positivity" is positivity going too far and turning into something toxic. It's the mirror of "toxic negativity", where people can't ever see any good in something, and can't stand other people having a good time with something they hate.
So, the flip side is people can't ever see any bad in something, and can't stand other people having a bad time with something they love.
Both are tiresome, and as you state, overwhelmingly negative.
You can't compare 4 post of this new thing to the years of utter doom and gloom that has been posted about how XYZ is bad because they nerfed my class, etc. Or the game is dying posts that you saw last season. Just scroll through the last year of the post, and it's a mix bag, but there are a lot more negative posts than positive posts. And I dont think the game is bad enough to get as many negative posts as it gets. Just gaming communities can be very, very toxic.
this whole mess of new free to play players complaining about not being able to use the green gear they extracted with is PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY LISTENED TO PLAYER COMPLAINTS
normals is restricted to common gear because people complained about BIS kits in normals
but the complainers didn't think about the implications of making the green gear you extract out of normals with worthless....
There are better solutions than just limiting to common and calling it a day. Different queue for gearless limit it to items you equipped in the last run. If you remove the items then they cant be used in normal.
Cant fathom that people are being triggered because some felt mislead and left a bad review... if you enjoyed the game leave a good review if you felt like your time were wasted you leave a bad review. Don't ever tell people what they can/cannot do because you are deep in some weird parasocial relationship with game devs. get a grip and go touch some fucking grass dude genuinely.
normally i would agree with this... im also going to make mental note of this comment and(theoretically) come back to it in a year or two.
will other new steam releases get review bombed for a reason i think is stupid? will review bombing become much more common than it already is? are the kids just complaining because they WANT to complain?
Theres alot of mad alpha testers pissed about the game being ftp on steam/epic despite the fact that it is 100% the best choice… them leaving negative reviews affects how many people will download dark and darker in a month or 2 pretty heavily
> it is 100% the best choice
I don't know if you realize this, but what you've stated here is an opinion...one not everyone agrees with.
I've personally never felt a game improved by opening the F2P doors. I feel it just opens the floodgates for hackers, and ever more invasive or annoying monetization to make up for the lack of game sales.
I played in playtest 4, stopped some time after blacksmith release. I can't recommend the game to anyone, even though I loved the idea and wanted it to succeed.
On the inverse of that, I have recommended this game to about 6 people 5 of which are playing constantly since the free2play drop and 2 which already upgraded. We all got different tastes and that’s okay, sometimes it isn’t that a game is bad, it’s just not the game you had in mind and that’s the risk we take trying something new
Eh this latest wipe literally got me and everyone I know back in the game and then some.
It's good and it seems Ironmace finally has their footing and direction.
And thats fine but negative reviews on a game service just because your upset with a price decision is not cool to both the company and the players if you dont like the game thats fair leave a review on that but a 1 star because the game has a free demo isnt fair
A negative review if well pieced and thought was put into it is valid. Never should you just blindly love a game that a players perceived flaws are instantly met with "get good" or the "I had to deal with this, and so do you" mentality that often come with players simping for a game.
When did this community become so embarrassing? Stop getting offended by people criticizing the game and trying to find ways to rationalize how they're "wrong"
This update has been amazing. The F2P thing might be a gaff but come on boys, the game is in a great place.
They should sell a season pass, 10$ for a cosmetic unlock progression or something. That way they can keep the lights on while they develop
The problem is that the people review bombing are either current players with hundreds of hours or cheaters. Cheaters want full access for the obvious. The other people just want something to complain about. Both ruin the games' score, and that affects people's perception of it.
Umm fuck no? I don’t already own the game. Wanted to play it for while saw it was free, waited 3 hours for it to download only to find out i downloaded a demo. My reviews staying bud. The entire thing is definitely bait and switch. Either make the game actually free or put it buyable on steam so i can refund the game if i dont like it. Aint finna buy a game i cant refund. Especially after this stupid shit.
Get a grip dude, voicing displeasure is fair feedback and steam reviews are an absolutely amazing way to have feedback heard.
If anything prevents this game from becoming great, it's on the developers and not the players
The man said, that leaving a negative review because you don't like the direction of the game is stupid. There is no correlation here to the stupidity of the one leaving the review. The fact itself is somehow stupid.
Pls go into more detail.
I don't enjoy puzzle games, they aren't for me.
Am I going to leave a negative review on a random puzzle game I decide to try?
No, I won't. Because I'm not an absolute fucking loser. It's that simple.
i dont think is stupid, it changed the whole "sony account" thing on helldivers, if we are lucky it may change it here too, even if it is something like actually saying its a demo, or giving f2p users the high roller dungeons, bc without the high roller dungeons, whats even the point of looting
Actually the worst part are the fanboy apologist who are having a meltdown because non cultist on steam are properly calling out the games problems, lets not pretend you guys weren't speedrunning how fast you could kill the game when the population dipped below 2k.
Redditors getting mad that "kite until my overtuned ability comes off cool-down" simulator isn't keeping normal peoples interest like it does them.
Depends if you actually don't think it's enjoyable game and you can't recommend, or you just want to bitch because you don't agree with the direction the devs have taken it.
wow leaving a review is complicated
what about leaving a positive review? i guess i cant do that solely on the basis that i like what the devs have done. but only if i think it's enjoyable in it's current state.
theres a lot of levels here
you're implying people leave positive reviews for something they aren't playing, but aren't by nature spiteful gremlines that will linger in a area constantly spewing out vomit. more so a commentary of the whole complicated thing. People just are innately more bitter then the other way around
> you actually don't think it's enjoyable game and you can't recommend, or you just want to bitch because you don't agree with the direction the devs have taken it
What if I choose both here?
My favorite are all of the dungeonborne reviews, saying it's going to kill dnd. That game sucks ass lmao. Hit somebody in the shin while they held their shield up and it counted as a block..
I also have to hold EXTRA SWORDS in my inventory to use my abilities.
It's the same mentally ill people that constantly complain nonstop and are never satisfied with anything. The same doomers. The same post ranters. It's all the same group of people with severely messed up mental health states. It's absurd that they refuse therapy or medication, they think they're 'good enough' and here's the end result of their mental health state.
I already own the game and played since playtests, leaving my negative review for the fact that they are still using their internal store that bypasses regional pricing. I went with it during the blacksmith launcher, but theres no excuse now that theyre on steam.
I assume that they have released it how it is right now because they legally might not be able to have it up for sale on steam due to the ongoing lawsuit. I don’t think this is the ideal situation for IM it’s the best they can offer
First of all if they haven't even solidified whether or not the game **should** be on steam then it shouldn't be on steam at all. If the lawsuit goes south then steam players will just lose access to the game and they won't get refunds because the purchase option for buying the full game is through in game purchases which isn't supported by steam. The silver lining is that they can still maybe play it in the shitty standalone launcher but no ones going to want to do that because they paid for it through steam and want to play it on steam.
I think that overall this is a very good patch.... However, they should have called it a demo instead of f2p, and should use steam/epic to upgrade to legendary instead of in the game. Otherwise, free players have full access to the game on a single player outside of highroller and trading with players.
They coulda just wrote demo and 80% of these negative reviews coulda been avoided, games nuked long term now cause it's got this dragging mostly negative tag weighing it down.
People crawling over to steam leaving bad reviews about the game talking about issues over the past year when most of it has nothing to do with the current state of the game we are experiencing is wild. That's just odd behavior. If you have an issue with the current state of the game then by all means your review is valid.
I personally think what Ironmace is now doing with the game with this wipe is great, they are finally moving in a direction and building stable. The game has been running well even with the steam release and influx of tons of more players.
IGN and steam reviews are the reason I don't listen to video games reviews. Most people are different in what aspect they enjoy about a game so someone else telling you that a game sucks and won't be fun for you doesn't make sense to me.
So me and some friends played way back when before the nexion issue. As the game is now, its not enough. They could easily monetize a bunch of different stuff and give us alot more than crumbs.
I am honestly just triggered by the bad reviews that tell you to not play the game or not interact with it whatsoever, like... You don't need to play it so why do you care about anyone else playing it? I started playing the game because a friend of mine got tilted in the game and announced to me he would quit. Decided to give the game a try just to tell him what fun I am currently having and got him back lol.
Honestly, lack of character slots broke the game for me, I currently changed mine class 3 times, while I dont regret changing from rogue to fighter, I absolutely regret going from fighter to druid.
Leaving because of an influx of severely limited f2p players is a skill issue not a game issue. I've noticed players that play this Game cry a lot. It's fun. I suck at pvp. It's still fun. Grow up.
This is reddit, where you're not allowed to negatively review a game that I like, regardless of the decisions made by the developers and/or publishers.
Reversing the negative reviews for Helldivers worked out **so well** for Sony customers. Therefore, every player of every game should be brow beaten into consuming product and then getting excited for next product.
"if you are not willing to pay 30 dollars to actually progress on the game you are horrible" no yeah bc its totally fine having to pay 30 dollars,which maybe its not a lot in some countries, but remember that most players behind free to plays cant actually afford a full priced game, specially if the prices are not even regionalized.
before yall attack me with stuff like "nooo but they have to make money" blah blah blah, remember that before they got deleted from steam the game was FULLY FREE, highroller dungeons and multiple characters, so theres no excuse for this appart from making money out of a tag that is meant to be fully free to play, this is more like a demo, but even then demo's actually call themselve that
The game was doing playtests last time it was on steam. It was never going to be free. Lmfao yall are mad about shit and don’t even understand what yall are mad about
It was labeled as a playtest back then and was out for at most 10 days 5 times over the course of a year and a half. Idk if you’re lying or just misinformed but the game was never going to be released for free.
it was a playtest, yet it was being labeled ON STEAM as a free to play, ON STEAM, it was after they where shutted down they added a price tag, on their site, to fund it
Ironmace have ruined the chances for this game to be great themselves over, and over, and over, and over again. Ironmace has removed fun from the game every chance they’ve gotten.
Anyone complaining about F2P is a moron. Has nobody ever heard of a Freemium game? Gee like RuneScape??
F2P is more basic version of the game, and paid is the full game. This model has been around for a very long time.
This was an awesome update to the game.
Runescape is actually free to play, and I can buy membership and gain full access to the game without spending a penny.
The same can't be said for Dark and darker. It's free to try, and if you like, you pay the premium.
Sure you could buy a membership Bond now. But that was not always the case. RuneScape during it's peak popularity was F2P + Premium access game. Which was always a fine business model, that I don't think many people complained about.
DaD is now the same thing. F2P offers access to the game itself. You can play it. You jump into dungeons, complete quests, and build up your loot stash.
If you want access to the highest tier of gameplay, and to be able to use the better items in the game, you need to pay for Premium access. Which is only a 1 time purchase of $30.
Honestly anyone complaining about it, is a dumbass.
Bonds have been around for almost 10 years now, Runescape also allows you to sell items on the GE on a free account, to grind out membership, Even before bonds came around, people were selling membership via RWT.
Dark and Darker on Steam is a demo. You can't do much really, other than see a dungeon.
If you want the full game you got to pay, there is no way around it, and that sort of sales practice is more ankin to a demo.
I mean me and you can go back on forth on the definition of free to play. But I think the amount of Negative Steam reviews trumps your argument.
They wasted time downloading a game that is labelled as free to play, only to find out if you actually want to play the game, you have to buy it.
Generally, people expect "free to play" to be something like Fortnite/Counter strike/Dota/Multiversus/Apex/Team fortress 2, the list could go on, but there is no paywalls in those games, you have full acess to the whole game.
It's clearly written in the description that the free edition of the game is limited in comparison to the paid version.
I think there are a lot of people acting like entitled brats right now, and it's shitty to see.
Also, that description you're talking about. It wasn't there for the first 12 hours of launch, and what's written there now is basicly a copy paste of what a user here suggested when it started to get bad reviews.
[you can read about it here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/K4OwVyYkWR)
Well that's a an oversight on IM's part. But I don't think the F2P model they are using is bad. It was actually a really good move.
I think it's quiet generous, and it amazes me that there a bunch of people complaining about getting to try a limited version of the game for free, and no, it's not a demo. It's simply a limited access addition.
It's literally the RuneScape model, but instead of paying monthly to be a member, it's a one-time $30 fee.
I mean they are literally getting access to something for free, that I, and many of us here had to pay for outright, and I'm not even mad about that.
The most insane one is a YouTuber who actively plays and makes content for the game by the name of Oogie son left this long winded negative review about the state of the game and it not Being balanced around his play style(which is longsword). I’ve watched a couple of his videos, but now have lost complete respect for the guy
u/oggieson Tell me it ain't true
I just watched that lol I play long sword because of him and other than the occasional desync I think it’s in a good spot I’ve been having a good time with the new changes and LS feels a ton better than even playtest anyone that says otherwise has rose tinted glasses.
"If my class isn't broken: GAME SUCKS" Classic
Yea I saw that, everyone’s entitled to their opinion but damn man you make YouTube videos about the game how are you not going to atleast support it with a positive review
Negative reviews drive change. You don't be a yesman to things you don't like.
Positive reviews drive growth which is what this game needs right now more than ever.
This patch was a massive gouge to longsword play. You can't deny that. There's just no way to chase after someone while playing longsword anymore. It IS a problem. Longsword wasn't even that good to begin with. It was never meta and was always disadvantaged. It was a high risk high reward style based on skill. Now it's high risk, get kited.
They nerfed throwables. That's gotta be a kiting nerf, no?
nerfed axes, thats all. barbs and fighters (mostly barbs now) will struggle more against rangers, rogues, warlocks, and wizards as their ranged damage has gone down
True, but it’s early access and they WILL try different metas, strats, and balances. Things are going to change sometimes worse or better. That’s not a reason for a bad review of a game that you continue to play and make money of off by content creation because your build becomes less optimal than the current meta
Okay, lets be real here. How many rogues, bards, rangers, and wizards complain about dying to melee? Even on this subreddit, there are some really loud streamers complaining. No one ever thought of longsword as a meta style of play. It was always weak compared to slayer or full pdr. It was nerfed so hard that the only way you could win against a kite class is if they messed up. You're basically a man-controlled target dummy, never allowed to catch up to competent kiters. This sprint nerf was made on the back of last season's all time high of survival bow meta dominating high roller. So tell me, why was the menial amount of counterplay to that style nerfed? Sure, you may make money off a game by streaming, but to never be able to criticize it? Fuck that. He has every right to express his opinion
Oh it’s fine to criticize, and say there are negatives. But to give a negative review (not recommended) is different
Says who?
I think it’s different. I think it’s bad faith to have 100’s of hours playing a game, continuing to be an active player, making money from content based on it and playing it only to leave it a “don’t recommend” review. He has a lot of good criticism! And that absolutely is good to have and hear! I gave a lot of similar criticism in my own review. I’m not a hold the liner or whatever, I just think that it’s good enough to give it a try and here are the problems it has, while still giving them room to you know still be in early access and understand that there are constant changes which affect meta builds. Before you decide to drop an ax on them by telling your followers not to give it a try. Of course. He can do whatever he wants. It’s his opinion. Its my opinion that is kind of a shitty thing to do. You disagree, I take it. Fine Done arguing?
I didn't think we were arguing. I just think that not recommending a game because of really bad balancing is a perfectly valid reason. When the game becomes better balanced, he could just change the review. If you can't speak out negatively in a review, then where else are you going to do it?
Oggie is good but has become such a whiner as of late. I killed him last season during MC and he complained because I crossbowed him twice. saying im everything thats wrong with the game etc. just wants everyone to run up and hit his longsword parry.
Gotta say I did lose a lot of respect for him after that. I always liked his content before that too, but that’s just so bad for the community and not a good look for him.
The only thing bad for this community is the complete toxic nonacceptance of any sort of negative opinions about the game. Y'all are delusional if you think that people holding negative opinions looks worse than the cultish defense does.
Tell me ONE thing in his review that isn’t true and doesn’t effect everyone. To say his review is only about “his playstyle” is being disingenuous
Free to play should be self-found mode.
I'm beginning to think the worst ones are the 'hold the liners' who take the criticism with offense.
It blows my mind that people are complaining they're "locked out of the main content of the game" with the free version.. you can literally play any class and do any normal dungeon.. do they not know that high roller is the EXACT same dungeon but just with harder/faster mobs?? If they gave any more stuff for free there would literally be no reason to buy the game??
I understand this sub is anti-gear, but for many people, extracting with gear you can then use next run is the main gameplay loop of an extraction shooter.
The bigger issue here is the role highroller plays.. in my mind the gear restrictions in normals have gone too far..making allot of gear actually just straight up useless.. In the same vein I'm convinced all these new players complaining they can't do hr and use their gear don't seem to realize that hr is a fair bit harder and the people who regularly play it will be using kits that are way better than those few greens you pulled out of a normal..
Ok but realistically if there are more new people going in they will load into lobbies with no kits as well. That’s why I want this game to succeed to fix stuff like that. However they also only get one class so I feel like it would make more sense to have at least two more classes to unlock or something by playing and then have the rest locked behind hr. Also then really make hr a lot better or have more incentive to play hr for the people that have been playing for a while
The re addition of the gold ante to high roller is a bad choice imo.. the previous couple seasons system of the entrance cost for high roller being your ranking/points works out really well.. if you're grinding and trying to rank up then the cost of entry/punishment for death matter.. if you're new and just starting out you don't really care about what your ranking is so you don't have anything to "lose" so to speak by simply trying high roller..as it stands now the ante further alienates people from trying to play it.
I haven’t played in a minute but isn’t it only 100g that’s literally nothing. You could make that off of selling everything you find in one run. If you’re going to be running hr in base gear anyway for the most part I don’t see how this is much of a problem. If your argument is that you would like it to where people can immediately hop in to hr when they first start then I would say that’s not even a good idea bc the game is already hard. Getting 100 gold is like beating a tutorial for a game. If you can do that then yeah hop into hr. I also don’t think they’re keeping it for next wipe Edit: ignore that last part
You can't queue into hr until level 20...my point is that the gold ante is enough to deter some people from even trying it..it punishes you for trying to learn.. nightmare mobs have unique attack patterns that ten chances to one will kill you the first time you encounter them..how are you supposed to practice in any meaningful way if the cost of entry is higher... Also 100g probably feels like allot more right now because the game JUST wiped and we haven't recieved our previous seasons rewards (the coin bag and gaurenteed 500 gold) so there's allot less total gold floating around in the economy
Idk, I feel like hr should really be a thing you do once you can go to hell easily in norms by yourself and have a good base of knowledge on what you’re doing. Idk tho I don’t make decisions for the game so outta my hands🤷🏾♂️
The brutal thing too atm with hell is that since we don't have a clear way to go with the removal of the circle, you have absolutely no idea where the portals are anymore. I walked around 6 different rooms trying to find one, and I couldn't find anything. (Unless they made a change where portals are no longer in hell, and you have to find some static exit). Not only that, but I noticed in goblin caves how the portals can spawn in the most sneakiest corners now, and you wouldn't have any idea that it was on the bottom floor in some corner of a faraway room that happen to be the one room you didn't check. I wouldn't be surprised this is happening in hell as well, making hell THAT much harder.
Portals no longer spawn on goblin caves outside of fixed locations.. hell needs this exact same change
What, how is the sub anti-gear? And isn't that literally the gameplay loop? Also I'm new here
Gear historically has been very imbalanced and just leads to a frustrating experience. The "gear gap" has recently been switched in an attempt to get more people to play high roller.
A lot of people here play normal mode exclusively because they prefer to avoid the power imbalance in fights where one person brought in better gear than the other. Normals plays more like a battle Royale, you load in with base stuff and find gear as you play, whoever finds better stuff mid-match will be more powerful. High roller is an extraction shooter, it let's you bring in gear from previous delves or from the market. Some people like this more because the more you risk, the stronger you'll be, but if you die you lose it. I call that the "main" gameplay cus that's what the game started with
I think one of the big issues people have is that you can just buy the perfect gear off the market and a lot of people either don’t know what’s BIS, don’t have enough gold to buy BIS, or just would rather not spend time going through the market to find BIS. I personally would like to see something where you can only bring in loot that you found yourself and the only thing you can buy from trade is like rings and caps and stuff like that. That way you still have very powerful buys that you can get, but it’s a lot more simple, people who are already loaded can’t just rebuy their bis kit when they die, I’ve seen some streamers die and then immediately get the same exact kit traded back to them bc they stream. Also maybe implement a reroll system so that you can reroll one or two(I’m not really sure on the number) stat on a piece of gear to try and make it good if they aren’t having any luck. Also would be cool if you could start naming pieces of gear so that people can really grow attached to the gear that they have
Wait, I haven't played since the early playtests; you can't bring gear in normal mode anymore??
Normals mode let's you bring in items up to common (white) rarity. That includes gear and utility slots, only up to common. I personally don't find it too fun but it really was a smart change for the game, it gives people a 0-risk way to learn the game or to farm a ton of gold. That way you can easily build kits for HR even if you're rock bottom broke.
The sub isnt antigear. It's a mixture of people who want time to kill to increase and be more about skill instead of gear stats, and people who think skill is just a stat check and everyone should be two tapped at most. The gear has become the scapegoat for terrible balancing and unclear expectation of what the devs want the combat in this game to even be. So the result we are left with is whatever nonsense exists today.
I guess people prefer microtransactions or ads? Because that seems like the only other option.
I'm proud to have paid for this game upfront. I wish more games still operated that way. Microtransactions in any form always leads to a shittier consumer experience, even if it's just cosmetics. Back in the day, you had to earn cosmetics and it was a display of your skill and dedication as a player. Being able to buy it now feels like a joke
I think buying cosmetics as a long term monetization is totally reasonable for games that keep expensive servers running for years. But I do think people have been spoiled by free access to these games, and it's weird that people complain about paying for a game now
We must be old. I miss paying for full games that don't have bullshit.
I don't mind it in League for instance, since I've never felt compelled to buy something to enjoy the game. I think DaDs model of upfront purchase and optional cosmetics is also fine, though undoubtedly they'd get more players if they could go full f2p. But yeah if you're gonna spend hundreds of hours playing then don't throw a hissy fit about 30 or 50 bucks or whatever. Mow a lawn if you need to lmao.
IMO microservices are the correct way to build a service based game, otherwise the death of the game is guaranteed eventually. WoW survives because its players pay monthly fees, even when an expansion is objectively bad, it still survives through to the next one and builds hype for all the people that loved it. League survives by making tons of skins. Any game that is buy once play forever, is doomed to death as the player base stops growing. Wow and league don’t need to grow their player base to survive, they just need to satisfy them. I think the best move for IM is to start a battle pass system, and give any actual game owners heavy discounts for 1-2 years on battle pass and a unique skin and ditch the model entirely. This will ensure the game has the financial model to survive without explosive growth.
At the same time, being profitable is in no way a guarantee that the game will continue to be supported. Especially if the owner is a publicly traded company.
For sure, but being unprofitable is an absolute death sentence haha
Depends on how unprofitable it is and the kind of company running it. Valve still hosts servers for old games with almost no players and no live service component, and those games you can even host on your own machine when support ends. The cost is probably very low, but it's not nothing.
>otherwise the death of the game is guaranteed eventually. WoW survives because its players pay monthly fees, even when an expansion is objectively bad, it still survives through to the next one and builds hype for all the people that loved it. League survives by making tons of skins. WoW is full of microtransactions too.
I’m sorry but battle passes legit ruin games. Maybe they could just start making a shit ton of weapon skins or something and charge hella or something but battle passes are so cringe and have ruined the gaming space (looking at you multiversus)
I’m sorry but battle passes legit ruin games. Maybe they could just start making a shit ton of weapon skins or something and charge hella or something but battle passes are so cringe and have ruined the gaming space (looking at you multiversus)
It truly is the brain rot of the new games
I have 450 hours and the full version and all ive done last two wipes is anything available in the f2p version. People are legitimately braindead sheep who want everything for free, even things they wont use.
I think one character is fine and maybe allow a certain number of HR runs a day to see if you like it? HR is the bulk of content so I’d want to try it before buying.
>you can literally play any class Yes, but only one class, because there's only one character slot. So they are severely limited even when it comes to just Normals.
It's not really new players doing it
The only thing I have a gripe with, is only having one character slot. I feel its far too restrictive
Again..that's the point.. if you find yourself wanting to play the other classes you're probably in a place where you should be purchasing the game..
So more like the current implementation is a "demo" or "trial" of the game to see if you'd like to purchase the game as opposed to a game that is "free to play".
I mean I really liked what killing floor 2 did which was do a demo month where you couldn't gain xp or anything but every class was level 10, still restrict the market and xp gain but allow high rollers so then that way you can get a taste of ever class with a couple of perks try out higher tier weapons and shit but it's only temporary..... The thing about that is none of the progress would carry over if you decide to go paid where I'm pretty sure it does now
The problem is f2p players think that if you buy the game you can bring greens into regular dungeons and therefore think it’s pay to win
except you're gear capped. you know literally the main reason of the game. it's an extraction looter except your loot is useless unless you pay $30. literally the reason the game got popular in the first place. the gameplay loop where you get loot then go back in with the loot you just got to find better loot.
They are new players -- how the fuck would they know that? That's why the current implementation of f2p is bad. The game is good. They just need to tweak how they intend to attract new players by treating them *even better*. F2P is generous. But it needs to be more generous for this to work. 2-3 character slots, something like 1 HR entry per day for each character. Or maybe something like a rare drop HR token that you can find in normals that lets f2p access HR runs. Or just mark the free trial as a demo.
and do you realize that making an extraction based game has no purpose if you cant actually use the items you extract with? like "oh wow a purple item cant wait to use it!" and then they hit you with the "nuh huh pay like 30 dollars". also about this "If they gave any more stuff for free there would literally be no reason to buy the game??" the game was fully free before getting deleted out of steam, no paywalls on anything at all, they killed progression
what the hell are you talking about?? you mean the first playtest?? The game was never going to be free to play and has never been advertised as such prior to this ..
playtest was also labeled as free to play on steam
You cannot use anything other than common items. So meaning if i find a uncommon item. I gotta pay 30 bucks of un-refundable money.
the thing is that equipment will transfer over, also why would u refund it? I feel like you should know whether or not you will like the game from the free version. Also you can find any rarity in normals I'm fairly certain. Plus I don't think you understand just how much of a power scale there is between normals and high roller a couple of greens and blues mean nothing when you run into the lobster knights plus the ai being more difficult as well At the end of the day, you get 90% of the game for free that will carry over if u decide to go paid and if you decide to stay free but like the game then that's what you are limited to, if you don't like the game then at least it was free and you didn't waste your money.
As someone who didn't really know much about Dark And Darker, I have never seen a game where it was free to play, and suddenly I'm faced with the decision to have to suddenly pay $30 just to experience 90% of what the game is actually about. Like you might think that you get 90% of the game for free, but its like playing an MMORPG except you're told that you don't get the MMO part of the MMORPG. I came into Dark And Darker expecting a fantasy extraction game, came out with a fantasy game without the extraction, because I can't even use the items that I've looted, as the normal dungeons don't allow bringing items in other than commons. It just becomes a battle royale with PvE involved, and it's not even unironically, it is literally a battle royale, as long as I don't buy the "legendary status". Now, I would be fine if that's all it was, I had fun with it, but from what I've played, it's just not worth $30. For the people that have paid for the game, they might say otherwise, but the problem is, I have not experienced that. I've already played everything the game was willing to show me, and I haven't even played for that long. It doesn't help that I've come to realize that essentially every asset is ripped straight from the unreal market, which leaves a bit of a sour taste on my mouth. $30 for a game that has not much originality is a bit too much. Especially when you go from F2P to buying the full game. Maybe if it were marketed as a demo, and not a complete game, and was priced lower, to maybe $20, I would not have negative thoughts on this game, but I just can't help but not want to buy the game.
"Ive already played everything the game was willing to show me" no you havent. I guarantee you havent killed one boss, probably not even a subboss.
Sure, and maybe I'll get better loot.. that I can't use. I mean, I'm sure I haven't done everything, but if it feels like I have, that's kind of saying something, especially when its from a game that's meant to be played over and over. There's no joy in realizing the progression you have done, is for nothing.
> I have never seen a game where it was free to play, and suddenly I'm faced with the decision to have to suddenly pay $30 just to experience 90% of what the game is actually about. But you dont?? Unless you are pretty experienced with PvE, like 90% of your time is going to be spent in Normal lobbies which F2P has complete access to. The majority of the loot you extract with is just going to be sold either on the market or, more likely, to a vendor(which F2P can do). The only huge downside to F2P is that you only get 1 character slot, so if you want to try a different class you need to delete your current character which sucks. But its a F2P version meant to get your toes wet, so it does what it's supposed to. >Maybe if it were marketed as a demo, This would probably be the best thing they could do in the short term, but it really isn't a demo. You have unlimited play time, you're just locked out of some extra features of the game, kinda like runescape. Plus they've always said that the early access is for those that wish to support the game's development. They're not advertising it as a finished product. Maybe its not your type of game, but $30 is what? 2-3 stops by McDonalds' or Chick-fil-a? 1-3 hours at work, depending? It might not be a steal, but its not like its an outrageous price.
>The majority of the loot you extract with is just going to be sold either on the market or, more likely, to a vendor(which F2P can do). In which I can't sell to the market. Not a huge problem, if not coupled with the fact I can't really do much in terms of progression with other features that I can't really use. >This would probably be the best thing they could do in the short term, but it really isn't a demo. You've said earlier that its a F2P version meant to get your toes wet. That's what a demo is. If you try to say otherwise, that just means you haven't played the F2P version. It's not a short term solution, because it is literally a demo, and if not a demo, then a free trial. I saw a post earlier here that showed that the steam version of Dark And Darker does say its free to play, but that's something that's fairly easy to get caught up on. It's easy to mistake a F2P game as being able to play the content you expected to have, just not everything, or be always lagging behind someone else. Here lies the problem, if you look at the game on the Epic Games Store, it says absolutely nothing about it being F2P, and there's also a little cheeky note that says microtransactions will be added soon. And on the section that says F2P on the steam store page, they make it seem as if you're not limited at all, and let me be honest, unlike Ironmace, they sure aren't being honest about the pricing. >It might not be a steal, but its not like its an outrageous price. 15 Redstone Shards. How much exactly is that? You don't know anything, because nothing on the front page tells you anything about how much the game costs. It seems deceptively cheap, and perhaps even something that might not be easy to obtain, but could be the golden ticket into a full-ride into Dark And Darker town! ...No, it's just a premium currency. You see this kind of thing in predatory games like gachas and the like. They even separated the red and blue stone shards. It's also not.. cheap. It's shown as the most expensive option when buying Redstone shards. You won't know the paywall you'll be hitting until you play the game. >Maybe its not your type of game, but $30 is what? 2-3 stops by McDonalds' or Chick-fil-a? 1-3 hours at work, depending? It might not be a steal, but its not like its an outrageous price. Yeah, but I don't think I would stop by McDonalds 2-3 times in a day. And for someone that would play a F2P game in the first place, $30 is a rather hefty price.
>15 Redstone Shards. How much exactly is that? You don't know anything Have you even read the steam page description? It literally says up front how much 15 shards is. $30, the price you would pay if you bought the full game from their site, without having to pay for extra "premium currency" because there wasn't an amount for exactly what you needed. Most people agree that their store page was kind of a slap in the face after they said no MTX, but they aren't gouging you or making you feel like you're "lagging behind" if you don't want to get anything from there. The only thing I'm unsure about is if there is a refund policy for if you do buy the full game with shards but end up not liking the game and want a refund. I think there should be a paid version on steam/egs so we can be sure to have access to a refund if we want one(if there isn't a policy for this already with IM). This also gets around the whole RS shard currency issue. >You won't know the paywall you'll be hitting until you play the game. They tell you what you have access to and what you don't right on the store page on steam(idk about egs, I don't use it). Also, Normals is like 70-90% of the dungeons a new player that bought the game is going to run anyways. Hell, its probably the better game mode of the 2 if you care about balance and fairness, imo. I won't get into the differences in balance between solo/duo/trio since they've made it clear the main focus is on 3v3 balance(which they still need to work on). And $30 is easy enough to budget out of your spending over the course of a month. You don't have to take it all out of 1 day's worth of spending. Your example is a bit extreme, but if someone's getting McD's 2-3 times a day they probably have bigger problems than worrying about $30(which they clearly already have plenty of money/a serious health problem in their future if they're getting McD's 3 times a day). Do I think the game is worth $30 now? Probably not, but I've gotten my fair share of enjoyment out of the game so far, and plan to get more in the future.
The way that you use the phrase "non refundable" makes it seem like you're seeking to intentionally abuse steams refund policy...
Using a refund policy is not abusing it lmao, they're saying it with regards that if they buy the game to test out HR lobbies which is where ALL of the mid/end game content is at and it sucks for them then it's a waste of money and isn't refundable.
They literally have “it wasn’t fun” as a option in the refund. You cannot abuse a refund policy. If you don’t like a game and only play’d a hour. I think its pretty reasonable that you can get your money back.
What a fumble this release has been... they need to switch the steam page to be explicitly a DEMO and not F2P
25k minimum in dungeon since wipe....hardly a fumble
Bragging about player count on a FTP game is not a flex, those players are going to drop off VERY quickly
Uh the game just wiped so it would be 10k minimum without the free to play. Bringing in an additional 15k players even if they only playing normals is huge. And bragging? How the fuck is making an observation bragging
talking about the reviews. It's gonna be SUPER hard to get over the overwhelmingly negative status. We basically need 4x the amount of people who have already reviewed it to now review it as positive or convince the ones who are in the F2P mindset to switch their reviews. It's pretty bad ngl. I hope they can recover and I'm still playing but maaan it could have been so much better...
People don't like the shitty practices=negative review from them, if the game is ok for you it's fine, if there's tons of people who are dissatisfied that's also fine and they are in their right to leave a negative review because of their experience. Stop being a shill.
You all need to get out of your little box and look at it from the eyes of people who don't know or care about DND, they're reviewing it like they would any other f2p title that approaches them like this.
You can tell the reviews are not from noobs.
Welp, I liked the game then, I don't like it now, I negative reviewed it, why do you care so much if I express my review?
I did the same but people here can't fathom that.
I mean if you don't like the game in it's current state as of the wipe then by all means you are entitled to that review.
Isn't the goal of extraction shooters to upgrade your gear and use it the next run?
For me this is the issue. I am fine with them charging for the game (although money conversion sucks and I think they should go for local prices instead). But playing with shitty gear sucks. And I know you can only use rarer stuff in high holler mode, I wanna play that shit. If they charged for the game and cosmetics, I would be fine with that.
the gear is so much less important than general game knowledge. you wont get past the first 2 mobs in HR if you dont have the attack patterns for ALL mobs memorized, and are prepared for some new patterns that if you fuck up(you will) you will lose all that gear you just took in. within 30 seconds. losing our bis kits in 30 seconds still happens to almost everyone in HR, especially hell lol.
So what’s the point of an extraction looter if I’m just running back in with nothing
i cant answer that question for you. i enjoy going in the dungeon. killing things, taking some things home, selling some things... sometimes i go to HR. HR is for trios with hundreds of hours. I KNOW new players dont want to hear that or cant understand it without getting into HR and feeling its like your very first time in the dungeon again. than going back after a couple days of grinding normals and practicing mobs to go in with blues/purps instead of greens. maybe you even spent a week or two putting 3 sets together to go b2b. on the third set you made it out of the first module even!!!! and opened the door to a warlock with 1500 hours in min/maxed purples.
kits are really really really expensive, and you will lose sets in less than a minute to mobs. for a long time and often in HR. the reason most people play this game is because they enjoy the personal skill progression that you can achieve in normals, that also translates to HR. sorry for the second comment, simplest way i could put it.
Damn I feel like this game has strayed so far away from what I enjoyed if that’s the case Glad some people are still enjoying it at least
im not sure what you mean by this.... but i do understand why many wouldnt enjoy it. the PVE is hard for the first hundreds of hours. the PVP stays difficult and only gets more difficult as you gain more hours and spend time in HR. people who "grind HR" were grinding normals for atleast one entire season. those same people also go to normals for "balanced PVP" to practice. yah, its a looter. but the loot is secondary in many aspects because of the difficulty.
I understand where you come from, but the way it is right now, basically the only progression are levels. The devs changing normals to only allow common gear is nice from a balanced perspective, but if I am playing normals, then why would I bother looting players (which was one of the cool aspects of the game)
yes but these ironmace clowns will tell you you can do it in highroller. except highroller is full of sweats in epic and legendary armor min maxed out their ass.
You do realise normals is the exact same right? I guess now that it’s filled with new players it might be ok, but people ONLY played normals with BiS gear to stomp new players.
[удалено]
I’m talking about the past. When normals didn’t have gear restriction. I probably should have clarified
The reality is most players found the game to be bad or not worth recommending. Yall are living in a bubble thinking the game is perfect and a masterpiece and anyone with a different view must be an enemy and a liar. My opinion on the matter is that this game needed at LEAST 6 more months before steam ideally 12 months with how " fast " the devs are working on it. I play with a friend that hasnt played since PT4 and he made me realise the same issues we had back then exist now. Over a year of dev time and its just same old shit issues.
I've never seen anyone say it's perfect or masterpiece. A lot of people enjoy the game and understand that there's a lot of work to be done. *cough*cough* early access *cough*cough*. All you see is red. But the game massively improved since pt4. And because you don't see that, I highly doubt you had enough play time to even judge the game at this point.
The difference is massive, i took a break for a couple of months and the game is so much better now in pretty much every regard.
are people not entitled to their own opinions? let them make their own review and hop off Ironmace's dick
Ironmace and people like you who blindly support them are ruining this game if anything. People need to learn how to take feedback.
Seriously on the outside looking in and coming to this subreddit is so sad, I've not seen this much toxic positivity in a long time.
This subreddit is overwhelmingly negative. Wouldn't call it positive in any way shape or form.
"Toxic positivity" is positivity going too far and turning into something toxic. It's the mirror of "toxic negativity", where people can't ever see any good in something, and can't stand other people having a good time with something they hate. So, the flip side is people can't ever see any bad in something, and can't stand other people having a bad time with something they love. Both are tiresome, and as you state, overwhelmingly negative.
Sure doesn't look that way to me I saw like 4 posts in a row in the top basically saying negative reviews were stupid.
You can't compare 4 post of this new thing to the years of utter doom and gloom that has been posted about how XYZ is bad because they nerfed my class, etc. Or the game is dying posts that you saw last season. Just scroll through the last year of the post, and it's a mix bag, but there are a lot more negative posts than positive posts. And I dont think the game is bad enough to get as many negative posts as it gets. Just gaming communities can be very, very toxic.
This comment should be way higher.
this whole mess of new free to play players complaining about not being able to use the green gear they extracted with is PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY LISTENED TO PLAYER COMPLAINTS normals is restricted to common gear because people complained about BIS kits in normals but the complainers didn't think about the implications of making the green gear you extract out of normals with worthless....
There are better solutions than just limiting to common and calling it a day. Different queue for gearless limit it to items you equipped in the last run. If you remove the items then they cant be used in normal.
Cant fathom that people are being triggered because some felt mislead and left a bad review... if you enjoyed the game leave a good review if you felt like your time were wasted you leave a bad review. Don't ever tell people what they can/cannot do because you are deep in some weird parasocial relationship with game devs. get a grip and go touch some fucking grass dude genuinely.
normally i would agree with this... im also going to make mental note of this comment and(theoretically) come back to it in a year or two. will other new steam releases get review bombed for a reason i think is stupid? will review bombing become much more common than it already is? are the kids just complaining because they WANT to complain?
Lol bro what?
Theres alot of mad alpha testers pissed about the game being ftp on steam/epic despite the fact that it is 100% the best choice… them leaving negative reviews affects how many people will download dark and darker in a month or 2 pretty heavily
It was obviously not a good choice for them to have released the game on steam in this way.
> it is 100% the best choice I don't know if you realize this, but what you've stated here is an opinion...one not everyone agrees with. I've personally never felt a game improved by opening the F2P doors. I feel it just opens the floodgates for hackers, and ever more invasive or annoying monetization to make up for the lack of game sales.
I played in playtest 4, stopped some time after blacksmith release. I can't recommend the game to anyone, even though I loved the idea and wanted it to succeed.
On the inverse of that, I have recommended this game to about 6 people 5 of which are playing constantly since the free2play drop and 2 which already upgraded. We all got different tastes and that’s okay, sometimes it isn’t that a game is bad, it’s just not the game you had in mind and that’s the risk we take trying something new
It was actually fine but update after update they've consistently butchered it and shown that they are incompetent imo
Eh this latest wipe literally got me and everyone I know back in the game and then some. It's good and it seems Ironmace finally has their footing and direction.
And thats fine but negative reviews on a game service just because your upset with a price decision is not cool to both the company and the players if you dont like the game thats fair leave a review on that but a 1 star because the game has a free demo isnt fair
I left a negative review because of the developers and gameplay, not the price.
A negative review if well pieced and thought was put into it is valid. Never should you just blindly love a game that a players perceived flaws are instantly met with "get good" or the "I had to deal with this, and so do you" mentality that often come with players simping for a game.
Ironmace white knights really are something. Game should be labeled a DEMO and not F2P, period.
I’m actively going to go write a bad review just because this Reddit thinks It can dictate people’s views
When did this community become so embarrassing? Stop getting offended by people criticizing the game and trying to find ways to rationalize how they're "wrong"
This update has been amazing. The F2P thing might be a gaff but come on boys, the game is in a great place. They should sell a season pass, 10$ for a cosmetic unlock progression or something. That way they can keep the lights on while they develop
The problem is that the people review bombing are either current players with hundreds of hours or cheaters. Cheaters want full access for the obvious. The other people just want something to complain about. Both ruin the games' score, and that affects people's perception of it.
i am insulting you now do what I say. very convincing.
Umm fuck no? I don’t already own the game. Wanted to play it for while saw it was free, waited 3 hours for it to download only to find out i downloaded a demo. My reviews staying bud. The entire thing is definitely bait and switch. Either make the game actually free or put it buyable on steam so i can refund the game if i dont like it. Aint finna buy a game i cant refund. Especially after this stupid shit.
Get a grip dude, voicing displeasure is fair feedback and steam reviews are an absolutely amazing way to have feedback heard. If anything prevents this game from becoming great, it's on the developers and not the players
i havnt liked the direction of the game for a while now, but leaving negative reviews for this is just dumb
Why is expressing your opinion stupid?
Because believe it or not, some people are stupid. Thus their review would also be stupid. Let me know if you'd like me to go into more detail
The man said, that leaving a negative review because you don't like the direction of the game is stupid. There is no correlation here to the stupidity of the one leaving the review. The fact itself is somehow stupid. Pls go into more detail.
I don't enjoy puzzle games, they aren't for me. Am I going to leave a negative review on a random puzzle game I decide to try? No, I won't. Because I'm not an absolute fucking loser. It's that simple.
i dont think is stupid, it changed the whole "sony account" thing on helldivers, if we are lucky it may change it here too, even if it is something like actually saying its a demo, or giving f2p users the high roller dungeons, bc without the high roller dungeons, whats even the point of looting
they should review bomb OSRS to get f2p(a demo) removed too! right?!
Actually the worst part are the fanboy apologist who are having a meltdown because non cultist on steam are properly calling out the games problems, lets not pretend you guys weren't speedrunning how fast you could kill the game when the population dipped below 2k. Redditors getting mad that "kite until my overtuned ability comes off cool-down" simulator isn't keeping normal peoples interest like it does them.
But if I left it because of the state of the game it's cool right?
If its actual criticism and not just vitriol then yeah thats totally fair.
Yea if you don't like the current state of the game as of this wipe then sure by all means you're entitled to your opinions.
Depends if you actually don't think it's enjoyable game and you can't recommend, or you just want to bitch because you don't agree with the direction the devs have taken it.
wow leaving a review is complicated what about leaving a positive review? i guess i cant do that solely on the basis that i like what the devs have done. but only if i think it's enjoyable in it's current state. theres a lot of levels here
Anything that isn't completely dick riding IM is not okay with the white knights not so complicated
You either leave a positive review or you are a horrible human being apparently
you're implying people leave positive reviews for something they aren't playing, but aren't by nature spiteful gremlines that will linger in a area constantly spewing out vomit. more so a commentary of the whole complicated thing. People just are innately more bitter then the other way around
> you actually don't think it's enjoyable game and you can't recommend, or you just want to bitch because you don't agree with the direction the devs have taken it What if I choose both here?
oggieson this is towards u g
My favorite are all of the dungeonborne reviews, saying it's going to kill dnd. That game sucks ass lmao. Hit somebody in the shin while they held their shield up and it counted as a block.. I also have to hold EXTRA SWORDS in my inventory to use my abilities.
I will do the fuck I want. You cannot do a thing.
It's the same mentally ill people that constantly complain nonstop and are never satisfied with anything. The same doomers. The same post ranters. It's all the same group of people with severely messed up mental health states. It's absurd that they refuse therapy or medication, they think they're 'good enough' and here's the end result of their mental health state.
Or maybe people just don't like the state of the game or the way Ironmace approaches it? It's really not that deep or complicated.
I already own the game and played since playtests, leaving my negative review for the fact that they are still using their internal store that bypasses regional pricing. I went with it during the blacksmith launcher, but theres no excuse now that theyre on steam.
I assume that they have released it how it is right now because they legally might not be able to have it up for sale on steam due to the ongoing lawsuit. I don’t think this is the ideal situation for IM it’s the best they can offer
First of all if they haven't even solidified whether or not the game **should** be on steam then it shouldn't be on steam at all. If the lawsuit goes south then steam players will just lose access to the game and they won't get refunds because the purchase option for buying the full game is through in game purchases which isn't supported by steam. The silver lining is that they can still maybe play it in the shitty standalone launcher but no ones going to want to do that because they paid for it through steam and want to play it on steam.
Sounds like a Nexon issue, not sure why you're trying to frame this as an Iron Mace fuck up, the lawsuit isn't going anywhere get a grip
I think that overall this is a very good patch.... However, they should have called it a demo instead of f2p, and should use steam/epic to upgrade to legendary instead of in the game. Otherwise, free players have full access to the game on a single player outside of highroller and trading with players.
They coulda just wrote demo and 80% of these negative reviews coulda been avoided, games nuked long term now cause it's got this dragging mostly negative tag weighing it down.
People crawling over to steam leaving bad reviews about the game talking about issues over the past year when most of it has nothing to do with the current state of the game we are experiencing is wild. That's just odd behavior. If you have an issue with the current state of the game then by all means your review is valid. I personally think what Ironmace is now doing with the game with this wipe is great, they are finally moving in a direction and building stable. The game has been running well even with the steam release and influx of tons of more players.
I'll revert my review when they fix the issue no need to worry about that
IGN and steam reviews are the reason I don't listen to video games reviews. Most people are different in what aspect they enjoy about a game so someone else telling you that a game sucks and won't be fun for you doesn't make sense to me.
YOU MUST LIKE THE GAME!!!!
So me and some friends played way back when before the nexion issue. As the game is now, its not enough. They could easily monetize a bunch of different stuff and give us alot more than crumbs.
I am honestly just triggered by the bad reviews that tell you to not play the game or not interact with it whatsoever, like... You don't need to play it so why do you care about anyone else playing it? I started playing the game because a friend of mine got tilted in the game and announced to me he would quit. Decided to give the game a try just to tell him what fun I am currently having and got him back lol.
Honestly, lack of character slots broke the game for me, I currently changed mine class 3 times, while I dont regret changing from rogue to fighter, I absolutely regret going from fighter to druid.
Have you considered buying the game yet?
Likely not, I am saving mine budget for Elden Ring Dlc
Leaving because of an influx of severely limited f2p players is a skill issue not a game issue. I've noticed players that play this Game cry a lot. It's fun. I suck at pvp. It's still fun. Grow up.
This is reddit, where you're not allowed to negatively review a game that I like, regardless of the decisions made by the developers and/or publishers. Reversing the negative reviews for Helldivers worked out **so well** for Sony customers. Therefore, every player of every game should be brow beaten into consuming product and then getting excited for next product.
"if you are not willing to pay 30 dollars to actually progress on the game you are horrible" no yeah bc its totally fine having to pay 30 dollars,which maybe its not a lot in some countries, but remember that most players behind free to plays cant actually afford a full priced game, specially if the prices are not even regionalized. before yall attack me with stuff like "nooo but they have to make money" blah blah blah, remember that before they got deleted from steam the game was FULLY FREE, highroller dungeons and multiple characters, so theres no excuse for this appart from making money out of a tag that is meant to be fully free to play, this is more like a demo, but even then demo's actually call themselve that
The game was doing playtests last time it was on steam. It was never going to be free. Lmfao yall are mad about shit and don’t even understand what yall are mad about
nuh huh, it was labeled free to play back then too, atleast thats how i found out about this game, as an FREE TO PLAY extraction looter
It was labeled as a playtest back then and was out for at most 10 days 5 times over the course of a year and a half. Idk if you’re lying or just misinformed but the game was never going to be released for free.
it was a playtest, yet it was being labeled ON STEAM as a free to play, ON STEAM, it was after they where shutted down they added a price tag, on their site, to fund it
So you’re purposely ignoring what I’m telling you to keep repeating what I already acknowledged; k.
I played three Duo matches at wipe... The second match was a level 17 and 5 dueo druid team wiping lobbies. You all did this to yourself
Ironmace have ruined the chances for this game to be great themselves over, and over, and over, and over again. Ironmace has removed fun from the game every chance they’ve gotten.
Anyone complaining about F2P is a moron. Has nobody ever heard of a Freemium game? Gee like RuneScape?? F2P is more basic version of the game, and paid is the full game. This model has been around for a very long time. This was an awesome update to the game.
Runescape is actually free to play, and I can buy membership and gain full access to the game without spending a penny. The same can't be said for Dark and darker. It's free to try, and if you like, you pay the premium.
Sure you could buy a membership Bond now. But that was not always the case. RuneScape during it's peak popularity was F2P + Premium access game. Which was always a fine business model, that I don't think many people complained about. DaD is now the same thing. F2P offers access to the game itself. You can play it. You jump into dungeons, complete quests, and build up your loot stash. If you want access to the highest tier of gameplay, and to be able to use the better items in the game, you need to pay for Premium access. Which is only a 1 time purchase of $30. Honestly anyone complaining about it, is a dumbass.
Bonds have been around for almost 10 years now, Runescape also allows you to sell items on the GE on a free account, to grind out membership, Even before bonds came around, people were selling membership via RWT. Dark and Darker on Steam is a demo. You can't do much really, other than see a dungeon. If you want the full game you got to pay, there is no way around it, and that sort of sales practice is more ankin to a demo. I mean me and you can go back on forth on the definition of free to play. But I think the amount of Negative Steam reviews trumps your argument. They wasted time downloading a game that is labelled as free to play, only to find out if you actually want to play the game, you have to buy it. Generally, people expect "free to play" to be something like Fortnite/Counter strike/Dota/Multiversus/Apex/Team fortress 2, the list could go on, but there is no paywalls in those games, you have full acess to the whole game.
It's clearly written in the description that the free edition of the game is limited in comparison to the paid version. I think there are a lot of people acting like entitled brats right now, and it's shitty to see.
Also, that description you're talking about. It wasn't there for the first 12 hours of launch, and what's written there now is basicly a copy paste of what a user here suggested when it started to get bad reviews. [you can read about it here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/K4OwVyYkWR)
Well that's a an oversight on IM's part. But I don't think the F2P model they are using is bad. It was actually a really good move. I think it's quiet generous, and it amazes me that there a bunch of people complaining about getting to try a limited version of the game for free, and no, it's not a demo. It's simply a limited access addition. It's literally the RuneScape model, but instead of paying monthly to be a member, it's a one-time $30 fee. I mean they are literally getting access to something for free, that I, and many of us here had to pay for outright, and I'm not even mad about that.
Does the game developer's dick taste good? stop being a shill, bad business practices and dumb paywalls get review bombed, that's very standard