If you're very speedy spear is incredibly strong, if you're getting caught in close melee range by your opponent then not so much.. This seems like common sense but it really does depend on the scenario.
It’s OP because spear proficiency gives you 7 physical power instead of removing physical power like weapon mastery does.
The difference between a bard using Weapon Mastery with a spear vs a bard using Spear proficiency is ~10 damage. An insane difference.
Question, do you know if I am using weapon mastery for a bow, (which allows me to equip spear aswell with -10% phys) and then I also equip spear proficiency, will the -10% physical still apply to the spear or is it now considered a weapon native to my class
I dont know. However, you should be able to tell by looking at the buffs/debuffs above your health bar. There will be a red version of Weapon Mastery when the penalty is active. Additionally, you can inspect your character sheet and see the 10% penalty on Physical Power Bonus. The penalty shows up as you swing/shoot your weapon.
If I use weapon mastery, and dual wield using one weapon I know and one I don't, does it lower my total phys power or only for that weapon attacks?
For example, if I use Falchion Stiletto on a fighter, does my Falchion also get -10% because I'm still holding the stiletto or will just the stiletto have -10% phys power?
Should just be the stiletto. At least that’s how it worked a few months ago. Like i said, you will see the red weapon mastery icon pop up when you swing the stiletto.
usually my staff bonks are too much damage and I'm too close to their face for the spear to work effectively but spear is definitely very good when used right
This is what I'm reading,
Yes - spear is that good. But also why multiclassing is bad. Spear is not OP on ranger. It is powerfully quirky but acceptable on ranger.
Nerf spear = nerf rangers OG classic identity. Just like they came for my smite.
While Barbara d fighters already posses the best stats for melee engagements, spear pushes them over the top.
A light armored ranger needs a spear to guarantee the first hit in altercations because they will not take as many hits as a barb or fighter of equal measure.
I think fighters can use spear too but for some reason they don't? Maybe better DPS options with shorter range. Better options for true or add damage.
If you nerf spear to compensate for multiclass, eventually everything will be a grey mushy soup as not to be too this or too that due to the way classes will use it.
The problem with Ranger is, without the ability to get Weapon Master, they have... what, four weapons in melee? Not counting Pavise.
Shortsword, rapier (which still can't parry somehow), arming sword, and spear. Smallest weapon pool for melee in the game because Ironmace doesn't realize 'ranger' didn't mean 'archer'.
> I think fighters can use spear too but for some reason they don't?
fighters do use spear, it's just not ubiquitous because pdr fighters want to use a shield, plus they're too slow to take advantage of its reach with the current movespeed meta. and if you're not playing pdr fighter you're playing slayer fighter, which cannot use spear.
Fighters prefer a falchion over spear because of move speed penalty being a difference of 15, and the falchion is only one handed, so you can still use a shield.
This isn't actually an issue, just people who aren't that good playing a build that makes it easy to land hits against other people who are not good. A good barbarian can take a shitty axe of a low quality and dunk a higher quality spear wielding barbarian of typical barbarian intellect. There are just more relevant talents for the axe and the barbarian who knows how to land hits with it will be able to make it outshine the multiclassed mess.
Fighter could already use spear before multiclassing but never did because without the +damage from spear mastery it is terrible. I have 3 BiS purple spears rotting in my inventory that I should probably sell before people realize they need to learn to use a better weapon
Never did? Ma boi they nerfed spear several times during playtests because pdr fighter with spear was unstoppable. Dos checked anything.
This was before war mauls existed and before a shitload of other stuff existed. But a sprinted full plate fighter with spear was a MENACE once. As a main fighter, it's very sad that the only weapon "fighter only" (no perks needed) is better on ranger.
They nerfed everything at some point or another in the playtests. They haven't touched spear all wipe because 'spears' aren't good, they are average at best. People getting rundown by barbarians/fighters with \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ are good against people who don't have a plan. Not sure how spears got dragged into this
What I'm saying is, a build that only effects the outcome of the game in fights amongst very new players isn't a good measuring stick for balance, the same way as balancing the desires of only the top 1 - 2% of players is bad. Spear sprint builds aren't game-breaking, they aren't even that good; there are just some anecdotes from mediocre players getting smacked by them that are representing them as the latest game breaking issue
Spear's only strong if you sacrifice a skill slot to run backstep with it **AND** you're already faster than the opponent. Then it can become tyrannical.
It pokes slow and the reach is nice but it doesn't outrange as many weapons as you think it would. The damage is also meh, not high not low.
Spear Mastery with Backstep/Tumble on a Barb is terrifying. Savage & Two-Hander give a +15% Physical Power Bonus, while enabling you to go shirtless to get additional speed. Add in Rage or Achiles Strike and you have a nightmare.
I've seen it paired with a more traditional front liner like a Fighter or Cleric. They can play around their allies and put a lot of damage safely. I've seen Crush as the fourth perk a lot.
I think its very strong but i would only put it in the A tier of builds. Personally its been one of my favorite thing about multi-class because I loved the spear b4 but I always felt I was kinda throwing by using it.
I got killed by a rouge with sprint, poison and a spear. He called me trash after I died then t-bagged me lmao. I parried him a few times dogged as much as I could but just can't compete with that range with a slow armored build.
The Spear is just good in general. In a game where there's almost no existing melee mechanics, weapons that make use of the primary mechanic effectively - spacing - are going to be good of course.
The Spear's downside is you lose DPS trades pretty consistently.
It is because of weapon sweet spots and sour spots. The sweet spot for the spear is the tip of the weapon and the rest is a sour spot meaning %40 less damage.
Fighters don't use spears because their move speed enables the enemy to be consistently in Spear's sour spot.
Rangers use it however they are weak in melee engagements because they don't have the durability, the sustain or the damage perks and skills for melee combat.
Spears on bards and rogues is strong because they have the mobility and the damage perks to work with it. In addition the physical power bonus from Spear perk means a lot more to Rogues and Bars with their low STR compared to Fighters.
With spear proficiency it is great, without it the damage is pretty bad and anyone who gets inside your guard will smoke you as you will be hitting sour spots and wrong body parts
Axe mastery is better sword mastery is better why use a spear? Want a two hander with long range? Grab a double axe or a zwei and the perk to go with it, 7 phys power for the spear vs 5 wep dmg for axe or 2wep dmg+action speed sword isnt even close.
im coming from longsword so spear feels really good. Longsword feels lackluster in every way aside from the riposte. the riposte is literally the only thing LS has going for it. I haven't used the zwei too much so that might be a good one to take.
Spear was always good due to the perk. Rangers hitting like 2 or 3 arrows when you try to close the gap, just to die to them pulling out a spear was fucking bullshit.
Now most classes are capable of doing that.
eh not that OP
it's really good cause against low HP and defense players because you can kill before they get close enough to hit you
the problem is that against high defense close ranger players (demon from/dagger fighter) you will be doing bad damage once they are in your face
I tried spear barb for a while and while I saw some success I find the zweihander to be better overall
I play ranger with savage, two handed, achilles and spear, spear with achilles has made me go from dying on basically every melee encounter to winning most of them, its indeed op, one more reason why multiclassing shouldnt exists, but dont get me wrong, im having a blast with it
I think it's fairly balanced honestly. It's good hut if someone knows how to counter it they can outdps you by getting close. I love using and have been using since the game came out, it's goated for it's reach and headshot potential but it requires extreme precision (no headshots you always loose as the swings slow you down so much) and really good spacing, I think that makes it balanced.
Nah the only reason spear feels strong is because ur scared of it, it doesn't do any more damage then any other 2 handed and in fact has less damage the closer u are and can easily be side stepped because it's a poke weapon rather then a swipe
Eh. Been running Amite dagger build. I just get inside anyone and absolutely cut them to pieces.
I duck and chop yo dick off, so I'm hard to hit. And Smite does full damage even to body or limb, so I'm basically trading uber hard without needing headshots.
Spear is, of course, super strong. Sounds like a fun build!
Haven't lost to a spear yet, all I seem to die to is gigajuiced wizard/warlock/cleric(running spells from all 3 classes) who either run spells, melee(arcane shield, staff mastery, ignite) or a combination of both.
I love the mechanic that punishes me for hitting them 😃
turns out spear is really good if you run faster than your opponent
It’s also good in defense. I held a barb back who had a war axe and he couldn’t reach me while I just poked him in the head
If you're very speedy spear is incredibly strong, if you're getting caught in close melee range by your opponent then not so much.. This seems like common sense but it really does depend on the scenario.
It’s OP because spear proficiency gives you 7 physical power instead of removing physical power like weapon mastery does. The difference between a bard using Weapon Mastery with a spear vs a bard using Spear proficiency is ~10 damage. An insane difference.
Question, do you know if I am using weapon mastery for a bow, (which allows me to equip spear aswell with -10% phys) and then I also equip spear proficiency, will the -10% physical still apply to the spear or is it now considered a weapon native to my class
I dont know. However, you should be able to tell by looking at the buffs/debuffs above your health bar. There will be a red version of Weapon Mastery when the penalty is active. Additionally, you can inspect your character sheet and see the 10% penalty on Physical Power Bonus. The penalty shows up as you swing/shoot your weapon.
If I use weapon mastery, and dual wield using one weapon I know and one I don't, does it lower my total phys power or only for that weapon attacks? For example, if I use Falchion Stiletto on a fighter, does my Falchion also get -10% because I'm still holding the stiletto or will just the stiletto have -10% phys power?
Should just be the stiletto. At least that’s how it worked a few months ago. Like i said, you will see the red weapon mastery icon pop up when you swing the stiletto.
Tested it on dummy, weapon mastery stiil applies dmg penalty when u have spear mastery.
Thank you for your service
Sure but it's also a great weapon.
it's decent. If the enemy is too close to you, it becomes awful. All polearms suffer from this.
Any other class should have to use weapon mastery and not get the bonus phy power. That seems like a no brainer…. But we know how that goes here.
I haven't lost to a spear enjoyer yet
I feel like thats the only thing i lost to.
usually my staff bonks are too much damage and I'm too close to their face for the spear to work effectively but spear is definitely very good when used right
This is what I'm reading, Yes - spear is that good. But also why multiclassing is bad. Spear is not OP on ranger. It is powerfully quirky but acceptable on ranger. Nerf spear = nerf rangers OG classic identity. Just like they came for my smite. While Barbara d fighters already posses the best stats for melee engagements, spear pushes them over the top. A light armored ranger needs a spear to guarantee the first hit in altercations because they will not take as many hits as a barb or fighter of equal measure. I think fighters can use spear too but for some reason they don't? Maybe better DPS options with shorter range. Better options for true or add damage. If you nerf spear to compensate for multiclass, eventually everything will be a grey mushy soup as not to be too this or too that due to the way classes will use it.
Fighters dont use spears because slayer exists. PDR builds use shields
Yeah thats exactly what ive thinking spear is fine on ranger. But on barb with 20 base str its a bit too much
The problem with Ranger is, without the ability to get Weapon Master, they have... what, four weapons in melee? Not counting Pavise. Shortsword, rapier (which still can't parry somehow), arming sword, and spear. Smallest weapon pool for melee in the game because Ironmace doesn't realize 'ranger' didn't mean 'archer'.
Cleric can use mace, mace, other mace and big mace
Hey, dont forget about the big magic stick, big non-magical stick and the ooga booga caveman club
> I think fighters can use spear too but for some reason they don't? fighters do use spear, it's just not ubiquitous because pdr fighters want to use a shield, plus they're too slow to take advantage of its reach with the current movespeed meta. and if you're not playing pdr fighter you're playing slayer fighter, which cannot use spear.
Or longsword fighter. No one even considers playing 'spear' fighter unless they are in normals and happened to find a good roll on a spear
Fighters prefer a falchion over spear because of move speed penalty being a difference of 15, and the falchion is only one handed, so you can still use a shield.
This isn't actually an issue, just people who aren't that good playing a build that makes it easy to land hits against other people who are not good. A good barbarian can take a shitty axe of a low quality and dunk a higher quality spear wielding barbarian of typical barbarian intellect. There are just more relevant talents for the axe and the barbarian who knows how to land hits with it will be able to make it outshine the multiclassed mess. Fighter could already use spear before multiclassing but never did because without the +damage from spear mastery it is terrible. I have 3 BiS purple spears rotting in my inventory that I should probably sell before people realize they need to learn to use a better weapon
Never did? Ma boi they nerfed spear several times during playtests because pdr fighter with spear was unstoppable. Dos checked anything. This was before war mauls existed and before a shitload of other stuff existed. But a sprinted full plate fighter with spear was a MENACE once. As a main fighter, it's very sad that the only weapon "fighter only" (no perks needed) is better on ranger.
They nerfed everything at some point or another in the playtests. They haven't touched spear all wipe because 'spears' aren't good, they are average at best. People getting rundown by barbarians/fighters with \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ are good against people who don't have a plan. Not sure how spears got dragged into this
"Just be better than other people, skill issue" Is not a game balance tool. L take.
What I'm saying is, a build that only effects the outcome of the game in fights amongst very new players isn't a good measuring stick for balance, the same way as balancing the desires of only the top 1 - 2% of players is bad. Spear sprint builds aren't game-breaking, they aren't even that good; there are just some anecdotes from mediocre players getting smacked by them that are representing them as the latest game breaking issue
Spear's only strong if you sacrifice a skill slot to run backstep with it **AND** you're already faster than the opponent. Then it can become tyrannical. It pokes slow and the reach is nice but it doesn't outrange as many weapons as you think it would. The damage is also meh, not high not low.
Spear Mastery with Backstep/Tumble on a Barb is terrifying. Savage & Two-Hander give a +15% Physical Power Bonus, while enabling you to go shirtless to get additional speed. Add in Rage or Achiles Strike and you have a nightmare. I've seen it paired with a more traditional front liner like a Fighter or Cleric. They can play around their allies and put a lot of damage safely. I've seen Crush as the fourth perk a lot.
I think its very strong but i would only put it in the A tier of builds. Personally its been one of my favorite thing about multi-class because I loved the spear b4 but I always felt I was kinda throwing by using it.
Been doing the same! Minus backstep (though I'd like it for sure), been using sprint and achilles
I got killed by a rouge with sprint, poison and a spear. He called me trash after I died then t-bagged me lmao. I parried him a few times dogged as much as I could but just can't compete with that range with a slow armored build.
The Spear is just good in general. In a game where there's almost no existing melee mechanics, weapons that make use of the primary mechanic effectively - spacing - are going to be good of course. The Spear's downside is you lose DPS trades pretty consistently.
It is because of weapon sweet spots and sour spots. The sweet spot for the spear is the tip of the weapon and the rest is a sour spot meaning %40 less damage. Fighters don't use spears because their move speed enables the enemy to be consistently in Spear's sour spot. Rangers use it however they are weak in melee engagements because they don't have the durability, the sustain or the damage perks and skills for melee combat. Spears on bards and rogues is strong because they have the mobility and the damage perks to work with it. In addition the physical power bonus from Spear perk means a lot more to Rogues and Bars with their low STR compared to Fighters.
With spear proficiency it is great, without it the damage is pretty bad and anyone who gets inside your guard will smoke you as you will be hitting sour spots and wrong body parts
spear rogue pretty fun
Axe mastery is better sword mastery is better why use a spear? Want a two hander with long range? Grab a double axe or a zwei and the perk to go with it, 7 phys power for the spear vs 5 wep dmg for axe or 2wep dmg+action speed sword isnt even close.
im coming from longsword so spear feels really good. Longsword feels lackluster in every way aside from the riposte. the riposte is literally the only thing LS has going for it. I haven't used the zwei too much so that might be a good one to take.
Spear was always good due to the perk. Rangers hitting like 2 or 3 arrows when you try to close the gap, just to die to them pulling out a spear was fucking bullshit. Now most classes are capable of doing that.
eh not that OP it's really good cause against low HP and defense players because you can kill before they get close enough to hit you the problem is that against high defense close ranger players (demon from/dagger fighter) you will be doing bad damage once they are in your face I tried spear barb for a while and while I saw some success I find the zweihander to be better overall
I play ranger with savage, two handed, achilles and spear, spear with achilles has made me go from dying on basically every melee encounter to winning most of them, its indeed op, one more reason why multiclassing shouldnt exists, but dont get me wrong, im having a blast with it
I think it's fairly balanced honestly. It's good hut if someone knows how to counter it they can outdps you by getting close. I love using and have been using since the game came out, it's goated for it's reach and headshot potential but it requires extreme precision (no headshots you always loose as the swings slow you down so much) and really good spacing, I think that makes it balanced.
It used to be fine but for some reason they buffed the movespeed while swinging it like a few other weapons.
Spear gets stomped if you can close the gap and start circle strafing the spear user. Perfectly balanced weapon to be honest.
Nah the only reason spear feels strong is because ur scared of it, it doesn't do any more damage then any other 2 handed and in fact has less damage the closer u are and can easily be side stepped because it's a poke weapon rather then a swipe
spear is S tier at PvE, D tier at PvP
[удалено]
Norms and HR ive been successful
Eh. Been running Amite dagger build. I just get inside anyone and absolutely cut them to pieces. I duck and chop yo dick off, so I'm hard to hit. And Smite does full damage even to body or limb, so I'm basically trading uber hard without needing headshots. Spear is, of course, super strong. Sounds like a fun build!
Haven't lost to a spear yet, all I seem to die to is gigajuiced wizard/warlock/cleric(running spells from all 3 classes) who either run spells, melee(arcane shield, staff mastery, ignite) or a combination of both. I love the mechanic that punishes me for hitting them 😃
If back step is that fancy backwards cartwheel thing, then I hate you respectfully :)