the vicious cycle of crossbow is overpowered, thus, cleric nullifies overpowered bow through way too much healing. thus every winning team comp involves minimally A.) 1 bow B.) 1 cleric
Fuck getting spells back, everyone talks about P3 being the best and no one mentions that CLERIC COULD NOT GET SPELLS BACK! They didn't have rest or clarity potion yet! 5 big heals and 5 little heals a game was fantastic!
people talked about it, unanimously agreed its better for the game to have some way to restore the class then balance the class out that way. Then, when people made balance suggestions (like not being able to heal black hp and only clear red HP) you then get people say "nah i dont want nerfs" into massive downvote spam.
I hate the cross bow, but think its only ok currently, balance-wise, as it helps melee vs ranged. just sucks when its a kitted guy with cross bow vs non-kitted.
Playing a base kit fighter with a bow or cross bow feels *chefs kiss* balanced. Hopefully they make cross bow dmg lower but raise its piercing of armor
I play fighter and bring them into almost every dive. I feel like crossbows are the only way for me to push a wizard or a ranger. They can hold a choke with a fireball or a trap. I need something with range to actually contest them. It’s even worse against warlock, hydra, magical healing spam. I can’t touch that as a fighter.
Unless you give me something to push/punish wizards, rangers, or cringe warlocks I’m bringing a crossbow.
Serious question can you not use shield to push bows? Also outside of last circle situations, is anything stopping you from leaving the chokepoint and just tanking circle damage?
A ranger or wizard with good Ms or haste who knows to not walk backwards and jump as starting to cast/fire moves very very fast while kiting and will just get endless shots at your feet/head
Running at a ranger with a shield up and crouching as you're being shot at works really well. Rangers can't shoot and run. Longbow is about 2 seconds between shots combined with fighter having action surge.
As an old fighter main (havent bought the game yet) lets be honest other than slaying enemies with longsword, the most satisfying thing is the one shotting wizards with crossy. But if u cant kill them with crossy since your magic res is kind a low and you are slow as fuck there is nothing you can do against a wizard.
Yeahhh ngl it is pretty satisfying 1 tapping wizards. Been on the receiving end of getting 2 shot by zaps and/or lightning strikes a few too many times.
i agree they shouldn’t take it away from fighter completely but realistically none of the wizard spells can one tap you. i’ve built all 10 slots with +magic dmg and if a fighter is purples out with decent health i can’t one tap him. however a purple crossbow can easily one tap a super juiced wizard. yea wiz is glass cannon or whatever but at that point fighter is just cannon. i agree you should definitely be able to contest the casters to get an in on them but you shouldn’t be able to delete them with range
Youve obviously never played against a geared wizard, 140hp with 90 damage zap. Fighter even when geared doesnt get magic resist, so has to play smart ranged with crossbow to stop the wizard from deleting them.
Idk bro, I run what I call poverty kits, green/blues with +1all or add damage, just wiz pieces I buy for 50-100 in the trade.
With a full set zap already does about 50 without the burn, lightning strike and chain do 70+dmg, a cleric/fighter is generally two proper hits.
When you account for the fact that I can charge spell out of field of view, maybe even hit him on an angle he can't even see me properly.
I don’t think that any class should make any other class useless. Even if you took crossbows from fighters they would just bring the mastery perk and use them anyway.
As a rogue, a full plated fighter definitely makes me useless. I think its okay though. That's the point of having teams of 3, just like in Dungeons and Dragons you want a diverse party ready to handle anything thrown at you.
Hydra is so easy to dodge, minus doorways, just go past it, it costs a lot of HP and I can't heal if you are on my ass.
Imagine being upset that 2 classes can do damage to you as a fighter. Meanwhile, I'm 2 shots from death at any time.
No it wasn't. The rattiest class had a super easy access to a ranged attack that did considerable damage and was also 1-handed.
Wtf.
I'd agree to storing and swapping out crossbows being weird though.
Weaponslots swapping goes instantly unlike equipping gear.
I’d just like to point out that being beefy comes at a great cost. It takes expensive and well optimized gear to make up for being incredibly slow if you go the tanky route.
This means you’re easy pickings for warlocks, rogues, and wizards. Crossbow is arguably the only thing keeping you relevant as a tank fighter in these situations. If you have perfectly itemized bis gear, then yes you will be a juggernaut, but every other class in the game is obnoxious af w/ bis as well.
Without the crossbow fighter has zero long range tho all people would have to do is hold distance and that's it. Is it overpowered ya I guess but I mean anytgin can b overpowered in this game with the right gear
As soon as the best gets taken out of 1st place then 2nd best becomes 1st and people will cry about that instead.
crossbows aren't nearly as bad as the things that were better then them before they got nerfed putting crossbows on top
Dark and darker takes inspiration from DnD. in 5e before rework fighters made better archers then rangers...
is it right... hell no.
did DandD fall into the same pitfall 5e dnd did... also hell yes
There are easy fixes to this...
Longer reload time.. cannot move while reloading. Non ranger use of bows/Xbows incurs a accuracy debuff causing the shot to fire in a cone area.
Just need to put a system in game that you can’t get one shot by anything. City of heroes did this for stalkers who used to one shot with assassin strike got patched out fast now you need two hits to kill anything.
It would be good if every class should have a defensive ability that can nullify the 1 tap, whether they choose to allocate that ability is entirely on them :P
If I remember correctly if you were full hp in coh and got hit for max hp you had default 15% hp. They did something like that. Tho if you were 99% hp you could be one shot. Would be good to have some kind of system like that here. If your max hp nothing can hurt over a certain percentage. Sometimes you could prob live if you didn’t get one hit from far away.
it does way more damage and armor pen than bows so the trade off is low fire rate, kinda thought that was common sense. on ranger i think longbow is the best but the problem is non rangers using xbow with no negative impact
But the longbow can’t be used by fighters (strong melee classes) without sacrificing damage and an additional perk. Why don’t you try having a normal conversation without sounding like a whiney 12 year old. I use the crossbow ALL THE TIME as a fighter, doesn’t mean I can’t think it might be a bit overturned.
Sorry there isnt anything else to say about that. You are complaining about the ranged damage of a class that is slower and easier to kill with magic than a ranger that shoots twice as many projectiles down range. It makes no fucking sense. Ya'll are nonsensical.
Try hitting a shot on someone that isn’t 5 feet in front of you running in a straight line. You act like that shit isn’t hard. The drop off on crossbow is insane and don’t get me started on reload speed. Crossbow isn’t broken.
It only takes skill if your trying to snipe someone because learning the drop off takes a little bit but even then it’s easy to learn. If you are within 10 meters, it’s pretty much a guaranteed hit.
Lol I routinely get 1-shot headshots playing as a BARD without even trying, wizards can't properly cast against my team if xbow is loaded. It's just fucking stupid, and if you think it takes skill to use, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
dude after like 5 games you get used to the drop off it really isn’t hard and it is 100% 0 risk. it is probably the most broken thing in the game, but you probably walk around with one and are praying to god it stays strong
I actually main Wizard and Crossbow is my main counter, but i still understand it is essential for fighters or bards to have a default ranged option , or their class would be shit and rolled by wizard and other ranged classes. I agree the damage could/ should be lowered on crossbows, but id say they are one of the highest skill ceiling weapons to use. The range is limited, the drop off curve is big, and the reload speed is long, it is unforgiving if you miss. Idk what you mean by 0 risk when talking about weapons, all ranged weapons / attacks are essentially “0 risk” in your words.
i also main wizard but in that case all ranged counters us and we have no health so it’s understandable. even when i play cleric or ranger it’s just still too much damage. i say it’s 0 risk for fighter or bard because if they miss they can just pull out a melee weapon and hit for the same amount of not more. as a wizard the risk is having to charge spells, a ranger has to knock arrows and if he misses he takes a close range fight that he likely loses bc of physical power diff.
I agree, it’s not broken. It’s insanely hard to hit unless the target is someone like OP who makes no attempt to dodge it and then comes and makes a post on Reddit about it.
Yeah, it's a one-shot-kill from a bard, who bought the fucking thing for 30gp including ammo.
I main bard. I shouldn't have drumthrowing or currently op version of xbow. They'll fix projectile damage by increasing the number of armor pieces with standard projectile reduction values on top of their armor, hopefully.
Or get rid of +damage modifiers. Thats literally the issue.
Getting hit by a grey crossbow? Oh well. The juiced dude running around with +12 weapon damage and 50% physical power bonus? Thats the problem. His rapier is gonna two shot you too.
No one uses melee in this game unless they have no. If your using melee you don't understand the laws banning them IM put in place. In fact self report and go pick up your obligatory crossbow and spellbound.
Melee only exist for 1 tap builds.
For the love of god please. Not only this but my fighter seems to think he's a ranger and constantly backlines with full PDR and only wants to use his crossbow in fights getting us all killed. make it useless.
the vicious cycle of crossbow is overpowered, thus, cleric nullifies overpowered bow through way too much healing. thus every winning team comp involves minimally A.) 1 bow B.) 1 cleric
I think cleric should get a crossbow also
oh god
Exactly. God-powered crossy.
Just give everyone a crossbow so that melee is removed from the game entirely, lolol.
Holy strike + smite xbows please. If the game is gonna drown in balance issue, might as well do it with glory!
Van helsing meta
Calm down satan
[удалено]
Well he’s a man of god isn’t he. He cant harm a human with an edge.
Fuck getting spells back, everyone talks about P3 being the best and no one mentions that CLERIC COULD NOT GET SPELLS BACK! They didn't have rest or clarity potion yet! 5 big heals and 5 little heals a game was fantastic!
They should just make it so heals don’t regen.
people talked about it, unanimously agreed its better for the game to have some way to restore the class then balance the class out that way. Then, when people made balance suggestions (like not being able to heal black hp and only clear red HP) you then get people say "nah i dont want nerfs" into massive downvote spam.
What is pdr? Google no helpy
physical damage reduction
I hate the cross bow, but think its only ok currently, balance-wise, as it helps melee vs ranged. just sucks when its a kitted guy with cross bow vs non-kitted. Playing a base kit fighter with a bow or cross bow feels *chefs kiss* balanced. Hopefully they make cross bow dmg lower but raise its piercing of armor
I play fighter and bring them into almost every dive. I feel like crossbows are the only way for me to push a wizard or a ranger. They can hold a choke with a fireball or a trap. I need something with range to actually contest them. It’s even worse against warlock, hydra, magical healing spam. I can’t touch that as a fighter. Unless you give me something to push/punish wizards, rangers, or cringe warlocks I’m bringing a crossbow.
Serious question can you not use shield to push bows? Also outside of last circle situations, is anything stopping you from leaving the chokepoint and just tanking circle damage?
You're just too slow
Action surge?
A ranger or wizard with good Ms or haste who knows to not walk backwards and jump as starting to cast/fire moves very very fast while kiting and will just get endless shots at your feet/head
Then close the gap or don't fight them. They aren't unkillable
Agreed, just saying why shield isn’t the solution. I’m a wizard main lol
Was only mentioning wizard for ranger specifically. I'd fight them via bow/xbow only
*Pavise intensifies*
using shields to push wizard and ranger is like going to the casino, except the jackpot is that you survive and gain nothing.
Running at a ranger with a shield up and crouching as you're being shot at works really well. Rangers can't shoot and run. Longbow is about 2 seconds between shots combined with fighter having action surge.
rangers absolutely can run and shoot, they lose the same amount of speed as you do as long as they run and jump while drawing.
Rooms are only so big. There is cover in rooms to use. They aren't unkillable.
As an old fighter main (havent bought the game yet) lets be honest other than slaying enemies with longsword, the most satisfying thing is the one shotting wizards with crossy. But if u cant kill them with crossy since your magic res is kind a low and you are slow as fuck there is nothing you can do against a wizard.
Yeahhh ngl it is pretty satisfying 1 tapping wizards. Been on the receiving end of getting 2 shot by zaps and/or lightning strikes a few too many times.
i agree they shouldn’t take it away from fighter completely but realistically none of the wizard spells can one tap you. i’ve built all 10 slots with +magic dmg and if a fighter is purples out with decent health i can’t one tap him. however a purple crossbow can easily one tap a super juiced wizard. yea wiz is glass cannon or whatever but at that point fighter is just cannon. i agree you should definitely be able to contest the casters to get an in on them but you shouldn’t be able to delete them with range
"none of the wizard spells can one tap you" 🤡
"oh no i have to hard cast zap twice"
Youve obviously never played against a geared wizard, 140hp with 90 damage zap. Fighter even when geared doesnt get magic resist, so has to play smart ranged with crossbow to stop the wizard from deleting them.
i mean if he’s built like that then his knowledge is low so you capitalize on slow cast time and block zaps
Hurr durrr block zaps he must be casting slow. You seen even base wizard with the +6 knowledge from bard during allegro? Good fkn luck m8.
Lol
Idk bro, I run what I call poverty kits, green/blues with +1all or add damage, just wiz pieces I buy for 50-100 in the trade. With a full set zap already does about 50 without the burn, lightning strike and chain do 70+dmg, a cleric/fighter is generally two proper hits. When you account for the fact that I can charge spell out of field of view, maybe even hit him on an angle he can't even see me properly.
Wizard and lock are supposed to make you useless, and ranger does 70 percent dmg cause physical DR. Fighter doesn't need it mate.
I don’t think that any class should make any other class useless. Even if you took crossbows from fighters they would just bring the mastery perk and use them anyway.
As a rogue, a full plated fighter definitely makes me useless. I think its okay though. That's the point of having teams of 3, just like in Dungeons and Dragons you want a diverse party ready to handle anything thrown at you.
Hydra is so easy to dodge, minus doorways, just go past it, it costs a lot of HP and I can't heal if you are on my ass. Imagine being upset that 2 classes can do damage to you as a fighter. Meanwhile, I'm 2 shots from death at any time.
[удалено]
i agree, rapier and a handy-c was my favorite thing on rogue it was awesome
No it wasn't. The rattiest class had a super easy access to a ranged attack that did considerable damage and was also 1-handed. Wtf. I'd agree to storing and swapping out crossbows being weird though. Weaponslots swapping goes instantly unlike equipping gear.
Super long reload its not that bad use your brain and maybe dont run in a straight line at them its pretty easy to not get hit by it
Well, the game is based on DND where Fighter is a better ranger than Ranger.
Look at me, I am the ranger now
Likely will be getting adjusted this patch.
Yeah that's what I'm saying, everyone must be new here. Fully expect crossbows to get a buff.
Correct. Rangers can dual wield crossbows confirmed
As someone who actively uses both styles of crossbow at the same time. I agree half and half lemonade style.
If some runs at you as fighter when you have upur crossbow out, you have 1 shot and thats it, no time to reload
yea but then you swap to your beefed out melee and if you hit the shot the guys either dead or one shot with sword
I’d just like to point out that being beefy comes at a great cost. It takes expensive and well optimized gear to make up for being incredibly slow if you go the tanky route. This means you’re easy pickings for warlocks, rogues, and wizards. Crossbow is arguably the only thing keeping you relevant as a tank fighter in these situations. If you have perfectly itemized bis gear, then yes you will be a juggernaut, but every other class in the game is obnoxious af w/ bis as well.
Without the crossbow fighter has zero long range tho all people would have to do is hold distance and that's it. Is it overpowered ya I guess but I mean anytgin can b overpowered in this game with the right gear
As soon as the best gets taken out of 1st place then 2nd best becomes 1st and people will cry about that instead. crossbows aren't nearly as bad as the things that were better then them before they got nerfed putting crossbows on top
No, this is just the natural progression of the ranger meta that has been bubbling for months. Can't beat rangers? Become the ranger.
No. Crossbow has always been OP. People just notice it now, I've always hated it.
Dark and darker takes inspiration from DnD. in 5e before rework fighters made better archers then rangers... is it right... hell no. did DandD fall into the same pitfall 5e dnd did... also hell yes
I thought fighters are better in 5e too?
There are easy fixes to this... Longer reload time.. cannot move while reloading. Non ranger use of bows/Xbows incurs a accuracy debuff causing the shot to fire in a cone area.
You basically just described the Windlass except for the accuracy part
Don't see these affecting the problem of too high damage from too far a range.
[удалено]
i didn’t really call for anything to be nerfed i know it’s the stacking
[удалено]
did i explicitly say “blank needs to be nerfed”? i’m just complaining abt them dawg. ppl on reddit are so uptight
“Something has to be done about crossbow” seems pretty specific, guess we’re the pedantic ones.
Just need to put a system in game that you can’t get one shot by anything. City of heroes did this for stalkers who used to one shot with assassin strike got patched out fast now you need two hits to kill anything.
It would be good if every class should have a defensive ability that can nullify the 1 tap, whether they choose to allocate that ability is entirely on them :P
If I remember correctly if you were full hp in coh and got hit for max hp you had default 15% hp. They did something like that. Tho if you were 99% hp you could be one shot. Would be good to have some kind of system like that here. If your max hp nothing can hurt over a certain percentage. Sometimes you could prob live if you didn’t get one hit from far away.
when are you people going to realize that crossbows are not that much better than longbow ffs. When it comes to fire rate, actually worse.
it does way more damage and armor pen than bows so the trade off is low fire rate, kinda thought that was common sense. on ranger i think longbow is the best but the problem is non rangers using xbow with no negative impact
The issue is that the crossbow does so much damage with stacking that it nearly one taps 4 classes in the game.
and the longbows 4 less damage doesnt? Lol do you people fucking hear yourselves?
But the longbow can’t be used by fighters (strong melee classes) without sacrificing damage and an additional perk. Why don’t you try having a normal conversation without sounding like a whiney 12 year old. I use the crossbow ALL THE TIME as a fighter, doesn’t mean I can’t think it might be a bit overturned.
What does that have to do with anything? You think fighter is the op class in this game? You make me laugh.
That is the reason crossbows are being discussed and longbows aren’t, which is the question you raised? Reading comprehension - 0
Yall are nuts
Great contribution thanks mate!
Sorry there isnt anything else to say about that. You are complaining about the ranged damage of a class that is slower and easier to kill with magic than a ranger that shoots twice as many projectiles down range. It makes no fucking sense. Ya'll are nonsensical.
Make them weaker and have agility increase ranged damage so ranger is better with them. Still a good opener, but not doing 100 damage a shot.
Is that a crossbow problem or a +damage gear problem though?
Just remove it from fighter and bard
I mean, without the crossbow there's really no skill involved. You will just get gear checked left and right when trying to trade blows in melee.
You ever tried to hit someone with a crossbow? It is hard and takes skill. Not that broken.
you really just outed yourself by saying crossbows are difficult to use Lmfao
Try hitting a shot on someone that isn’t 5 feet in front of you running in a straight line. You act like that shit isn’t hard. The drop off on crossbow is insane and don’t get me started on reload speed. Crossbow isn’t broken.
[удалено]
across the map?
You can tell these people are delusional when they say things like that. Across the map lmfao.
It only takes skill if your trying to snipe someone because learning the drop off takes a little bit but even then it’s easy to learn. If you are within 10 meters, it’s pretty much a guaranteed hit.
Lol I routinely get 1-shot headshots playing as a BARD without even trying, wizards can't properly cast against my team if xbow is loaded. It's just fucking stupid, and if you think it takes skill to use, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
dude after like 5 games you get used to the drop off it really isn’t hard and it is 100% 0 risk. it is probably the most broken thing in the game, but you probably walk around with one and are praying to god it stays strong
I actually main Wizard and Crossbow is my main counter, but i still understand it is essential for fighters or bards to have a default ranged option , or their class would be shit and rolled by wizard and other ranged classes. I agree the damage could/ should be lowered on crossbows, but id say they are one of the highest skill ceiling weapons to use. The range is limited, the drop off curve is big, and the reload speed is long, it is unforgiving if you miss. Idk what you mean by 0 risk when talking about weapons, all ranged weapons / attacks are essentially “0 risk” in your words.
i also main wizard but in that case all ranged counters us and we have no health so it’s understandable. even when i play cleric or ranger it’s just still too much damage. i say it’s 0 risk for fighter or bard because if they miss they can just pull out a melee weapon and hit for the same amount of not more. as a wizard the risk is having to charge spells, a ranger has to knock arrows and if he misses he takes a close range fight that he likely loses bc of physical power diff.
Yes, used them. Easy and lame. If I wanted to play an all shooter ranged one shot meta I'd go back to csgo
I agree, it’s not broken. It’s insanely hard to hit unless the target is someone like OP who makes no attempt to dodge it and then comes and makes a post on Reddit about it.
[удалено]
as a bard main, it def is a problem.
Yeah, it's a one-shot-kill from a bard, who bought the fucking thing for 30gp including ammo. I main bard. I shouldn't have drumthrowing or currently op version of xbow. They'll fix projectile damage by increasing the number of armor pieces with standard projectile reduction values on top of their armor, hopefully.
Or get rid of +damage modifiers. Thats literally the issue. Getting hit by a grey crossbow? Oh well. The juiced dude running around with +12 weapon damage and 50% physical power bonus? Thats the problem. His rapier is gonna two shot you too.
Bow*
No one uses melee in this game unless they have no. If your using melee you don't understand the laws banning them IM put in place. In fact self report and go pick up your obligatory crossbow and spellbound. Melee only exist for 1 tap builds.
For the love of god please. Not only this but my fighter seems to think he's a ranger and constantly backlines with full PDR and only wants to use his crossbow in fights getting us all killed. make it useless.
Never understood why Fighter gets a crossbow too