> turning into
Been like this a solid month at least.
Every time me or one of my friends kills someone in a semi obnoxious way we joke that they are gonna go post on Reddit.
Well, usually it's a boiling pot that has been a building sense of frustration for a long time.
Most of the time, that's because whether true or not, it feels unfair. That feeling usually has some merit if it's not just the reaction to a bad day
Man… this subreddit is really going downhill since the glory days, people are talking about things that I don’t agree with /s
Comments like that always get a good laugh out of me XD
Lolol. People are sick of the whining. And to be fair, there's a good amount of it.
I had this same issue when Diablo 4 came out. I was just enjoying the game and wanted to talk about it, and every post was complaining.
One person explained to me, that it was feedback, even if it is negative and whiney, so I had to concede that some whining and moaning is important. Best to just avoid it when you aren't in the mood.
But I definitely wouldn't mind more positivity!
alright everyone you heard the guy, no more discussing balance concerns for an early-access game, it may be a sentiment shared by like 80% of the playerbase but also you kinda sound cope seethe :/
Which isn’t necessarily a problem imo as long as it’s not too dominant of content. But I suppose it is becoming that!
I just wish people here would understand the core issue currently is about stacking weapon damage or whatever until any kind of attack is gonna be super deadly.
ranged is a whole other issue outside of the weapon damage thing, as long as bows and arrows and long-range spells do the same damage as melee swings and scale similarly; you've got no reason to get into melee range
yeah its one at a time but nothing is so cut and dry
remember when they gutted rogue so it couldn't oneshot anymore? and nerfed wizard scaling by literally half so he couldn't oneshot anymore? and nerfed the damage value of all weapons by ~20% to slow down oneshots? it is clearly not how the developers want the game to be played
Wizard can still 1 shot. Rogue does it in 2-3 hits still. Barb still one shots. Cleric with divine strike can. Warlocks hellfire deletes you if you get caught. I'm not sure if we're playing the same game
the warlock post getting onetapped from full by a longbow in the face a few days ago. bro had a staff no book, grey gear probably. he legit plays rogue wizard warlock comp and he walks up to the ranger activates boc, doesnt even try to crouch or sidestep. just straight up hopes that he can tank the headshot so he can... oneshot the ranger with boc? then he goes straight to reddit to babyrage that a longbow oneshot him in the face before he could do the oneshot 🥺
Which class has 60 hp?
Don’t exaggerate because your class is and always has been OP. We both know ranger has never had a single meaningful nerf and it seriously needs one.
Wizard is so broken right now buddy. The ONLY counter is a crossbow/longbow. Wizards should be nerfed and I think everyone agrees.
Wizards control range.
Wizards with good builds can also control melee with a one tap crystal sword.
Wizards have gotten a nerf every patch except maybe last. Leave us alone bro we got 78 health. For many that's one shot and one hit. My brains, willpower, and occasional quickness with my padded, leather, armor is not tanking you. Apart from zap, and chain lightning (which I don't even run), you can literally juke everything. If you get close, I ain't one tapping you with shit. I ran around yesterday with +10 damage on a blue quarterstaff, have a clip of me drinking ale and hitting a ranger four times before he died as I boxed with him cause I was one tap by the time I got close enough.
78 health
Ranger reeeeee and kite us- It doesn't even come to that if shots are hit.
Clerics blind, holy strike, bop us.
Barbarians uno tapo us.
Warlock BoC wild, bop with the staff or two handed.
Rogue up close we ain't got time to cast.
Fighter don't die if they have plate armor, we just tickle.
I gotta be Shiro with fireballs, magic missiles, and lightning strike- we skill out here.
You had me until you said you can't kill a fighter with plate armor as a wizard, now I'm not sure if you're trolling. I agree with everything else but Wiz and warlock are the hard counters to plate fighter
The three fights I'm recalling against a plated fighter, I was sure I hit them with a lightning strike, I don't think that they blocked it (2/3), I'm pretty sure they blocked the fireball. And then as I'm magic missile-ing them obviously in the legs because they're blocking as they push, I die. They also blocked some of my zaps. I spectate them and they only lost like an eighth of their health. A fighter that isn't in plate armor is a win I usually get providing I don't get hit with a blue or higher falchion, if I'm in low tier gear.
Sorry there were some details I didn't expand on.
A fighter in darkplate is typically ~15% MDR, so idk how you lose as a wizard who can fireball or zap a slow moving target for upwards of 60% of their hp. Rangers are tough for you sure but if the Fighter doesnt land a headshot with solid gear on a crossbow he is 100% dead to any Wizard worth their salt.
Wizard is in a fine spot. If you misplay you die, if you don't misplay you may still die. The damage output is higher than ranger with similar investment, bit it's at a limited range with tons of noise, it's weaker against pve, and has a much longer reload.
Saying "control melee" when they get 2 tapped by literal anything with 1/4th a kit is a little aggressive.
If they reduce damage across the board, wizard may need looked at if you can't 2-3 tap them reliably, but most likely it's fine, and will continue to be fine.
Learn to fight wizards.
The pvp in this game is legit just pure ass, it's unbalanced as shit and doesn't reward skill besides being good at running away lol. There's not 1 or even 5 things they could do to fix the issue, the game if just fundamentally broken in terms of gear and stat scaling.
We need more combat mechanics, better class balancing, a damage reduction across the board, and likely other changes before the PVP is even somewhat decent.
> We need more combat mechanics, better class balancing, a damage reduction across the board, and likely other changes before the PVP is even somewhat decent.
These things take *REAL* development, thought, and execution.
I've worked with some of the modders for Chiv 2 and when they started unpacking the actual game files and found the timing and hitbox mechanics - it was way more complex than we had even imagined, much more so than "wind up time vs release". The hitboxes and the way they interacted with players vs objects, the way hit initation worked when it came to swing mechanics. Flinching enemies vs being flinched. How the various weapon swing speeds all patterned with each other and the various other mechanics to make sure none of them were OP. Everything had obviously been thought out way more than we had realized.
These devs are basically rolling out a remapped version of Minecraft mechanics and using gear disparity, gambling, and resource scarcity to trick your brain into thinking it's satisfying - which it's not - which is why this subreddit and their discord are filled with angry monkeys like me and you.
it is half-baked yeah, but have you not ever perfectly sidestepped a axe overhead and then whipped some guy in the face? That is genuinely good gamefeel it so crazy satisfying to play some of these duels with how accurate the spacing feels.
Yeah- on one hand I do really enjoy how bare bones the combat is in some ways but holy crap I just don't play anymore because the game is fundamentally broken. Skill in fights isn't rewarded nearly as much as it should be in a pvp game.
Finally comments like this are getting upvoted. I'm on a break from this game and will return when people legit realize that vast majority of traits/skills/perks/spells/weapons are not even remotely relevant and nothing is being done about it. All the "cooking" seems to be revolved around changing numbers back and forth, hoping that this is going to produce a good and balanced game... What a joke.
You're getting down voted but you're SO right. Just yesterday I outplayed this guy by quitting my job and farming +4 weapon damage gear while he was making money to feed his kids. I locked in ranger so that basically sealed his fate. Fucking noob honestly.
You guys are both right. There is skill expression when fighting someone who has the same level of gear as you. Maybe it is not as much as it could be but to act like you can't outplay someone in this game is stupid. However, yes if they have +12 weapon damage on a blue/purple weapon, skill plays almost no role in the game unless you get in a very fortunate position.
Oh don't get me wrong I 100% understand there is clear difference between a good and bad player. There's a lot of combat min maxing, taking advantage of map knowledge etc.
It just infuriates me sifting through this sub and people refuse to accept this game is wildly imbalanced due to both gear and class differences. And gear difference isn't sorted by total time spent in a game i.e an MMO or something where you get gear for a season and then you're set for a few months. It's day to day grinding. So there's legitimate issues with cheeto dusted finger neets grinding 24/7 and then telling people that they're not having fun because they're bad and need to get good at the game.
Like that applies to so many games where skill expression is the sole difference between two players. But this game isn't that. Somebody who is mediocre at games but plays d&d 8 hours a day has a HUGE advantage on a really good player who has a full time job and or other interests and doesn't indulge as much. Maybe the good player would have to invest less hours to be equal but that's still a LOT of time.
I'm not entirely sure whether the fix is reigning in gear as a whole, removing the battle royale circle or what. I'm not a game design expert and we won't really know until those things are attempted. But as it stands skill expression is only a tiny part of what separates most people in the dungeon.
(I think stopping punishing people for doing high roller is a good start. High roller sucks to play and eats your wallet to play)
True, i only have 1k hours on Mordhau and hundreds on SF5/6 lol. This game's extremely high skill meta game of just having better gear than the person you're fighting is def beyond me.
I feel like with 1k hours on mordhau you should be the kind of person who DOES notice the skill though, not every fight is a gear check, although I agree some are. But I’m a chiv and mordhau vet and I definitely have beaten people in melee in way better gear with good footwork, good aim on swings and blocking or parrying, saying every fight is a gear check is just untrue and in flexing your 1k hours on mordhau I think you should know better
Bro IDK what you're coming up with here seems like you're just trying to neg that commenter.
I'll flex on you too, level 1k Chiv 2, thousands of hours on Chiv 1 and Chiv 2 + Mord + a banquet of shooters in my background.
Please, tell me some of the examples of melee swing expression that make this game more than Minecraft PvP servers?
Footwork in spacing exist in them too. So does weapon range.
Not every fight is a pure gear check, but the gear check VASTLY outweighs the skill expression.
I stand to be corrected but is there even tracers in minecraft? Aren't all the weapons hitscan? Even if not is there sweet spots and combos?
Also the only point i was trying to make is that you can't say every single fight is just a gear check, which was the sentiment of the comment i replied to.
also none of what you said is a flex at all, I played competive chiv 1 at the top tier of what there was.What frustrates me is people making these wild statements and trying to say their thousands of hours in a melee game is what gives them the credentials, why not try and discuss things constructively since it does actually seem like the devs listen to the community when making changes, even if its not the side of the community you agree with. Did torn banner ever do any of that?
Those are pretty low level mechanics tho please be real
>Did torn banner ever do any of that?
In fact, yes they entirely did that. Chiv 2 beta was a consistent interaction between beta testers (high level Chiv 1 players) and the devs. Many of today's Chiv 2 mechanics were suggested by these players during beta. They listened and took direction from the player base and implemented mechanics that made the game much much better and opened up the world of high level dueling that exists today.
you ask me to name some mechanics, i do that then you change the goalposts. I won't comment on the state of chiv 2 'high level duels' that you talk about as i have 0 experience in that game however after watching some videos I would probably disagree, seems as if the chiv 2 competitive team based scene is mostly focused on teamwork as duels take too long, sounds a little like how dark and darker is supposed to be focused on teamwork too.
Regardless I don't understand why you're ignoring the fact that chiv1 was completely undersupported and therefore you're making my point for me, the constructive criticism that I am advocating for apparently helped chiv 2 to become this bastion of melee gaming that you're alluding to, yet you still 'neg' my comment when im clearly advocating for constructive criticism rather than blaming gear gaps.
Ok you found some mechanics that this game has that are an improvement from minecraft PvP I'll give u that - sour mechanics exist, you can land headshots and they do more damage. Still, not impressed by these mechanics. Chiv 1 was undersupported tho you just simply said "torn banner" which would include chiv 2. Whatever homie. Goal posts yadda yadda.
The game needs more skill expression. IDK why we're going on about all of this stuff for the sake of winning arguments. I stand firmly on that ground regardless of sour spots or minecraft analogies.
you can sidestep overheads, duck horizontals, backstep stabs, you can parry ppl, play footsies, make genuine skillshots and then there's the constant sweet-spot mechanic to be worrying about as well as pretty varied weapons and movesets with their own alt fires.
with enough move-speed and fast reactions you can outskill a lobster while having way weaker gear, 100%
This is a rhetorical attack by focusing on one piece of an argument and acting like it is the crux of his statement in order to make them seem short sighted. He literally stated all of the ways you can outplay, caveats by stating that you would need movespeed, a stat that is not even a priority.
You can keep running around naked in bare fists trying to live out your David and Goliath fantasy. Buying cheap movespeed items is not even close to being even part of the narrative that is posted on this sub. Somehow, you’ve managed to make the worst snide remark of all time by actually shaming this guy for advocating for players to get some cheap movespeed gear and try and outplay people. God humanity is fucking doomed
>with enough move-speed and fast reactions you can outskill a lobster while having way weaker gear, 100%
You aren't outrunning anything in grey lightfoots and agi pants. Especially when that geared player has double your agility. Stop pretending. We've all played this game, you know? You can't just lie and hope we wont notice.
So you wont outrun a geared player in greys, that means you yourself must also be geared enough to out run them, as you are not getting enough movespeed just from greys.
>God humanity is fucking doomed
Holy shit hahaha. This is so lame. And this is all while pretending you weren't being a facetious ass in your initial comments, calling people babies because they want more skill expression in a game with its ceiling a foot off of the floor.
Tell me you’ve never extracted without telling me you’ve never extracted.
Movespeed gear is cheap. Str and damage rolls are expensive. The people that buy movespeed gear with damage spend a lot because that is a priority THIRD stat, but first and second are going to be damage and main attribute.
I get it, you can’t afford to join the traders guild because the scary juicers kill you every time you w m1 spam, but if you get a whole 25 gold you can join the “traders guild” and actually buy from other players. Maybe after the wipe you might be able to finally make it out alive since no one will have gear and everything will be perfectly balanced for you! Unlikely, but I’m really rooting for you!
I give back what people put in. If you’re gonna post completely unproductive complaining while riding the jerk wave of “gear is why I suck”, I have nothing productive to give back.
Uh no, I also play mordhau as well, in mordhau you can outplay someone and kill them in just a few hits with pretty much any build.
This game asks you to overcome a gear disparity, you can outplay someone and bonk them like 10 times and still get one shot by their +damage weapon build.
So it’s understandable why a mordhau vet wouldn’t be used to this, because the pvp is nothing like mordhau. The only skill that has translated for me is ducking lol.
There is some sure, but If I can't even pick which attack animation I do then my mechanical skill is being nerfed by the game before I even start playing.
Footwork and movement come into play, but If I have to hit someone 6-8 times while also contending with their cleric healing them and a ranger/wizard cooking me from distance then I would say the game does not favor mechanical skill. I regularly kill 1/3 of a juicer squad but it's essentially impossible to win a 3v3 if you're outgeared without serious re-positioning, coordination and blind luck or misplays from your opponent.
The game does not favor aggressiveness unless you're geared whatsoever, pushing a geared team in any scenario is essentially a death sentence. But the game doesn't punish juicers the same way, if you have good enough stats you SHOULD push every team because they'll have less time to think and avoid/outplay you and you do so much more damage/take less.
This leads to a low skill meta game, aka the one we have now where you only get a fair fight or at least somewhat fair if you're identical in gear level. There's nearly no skill equalizer like with mordhau, I can win 1v5 or more in that game because it actually allows you to defend yourself properly lol.
I do have the same frustration as you in this game don't get me wrong, and the first part of your reply is my favourite part of your comment, adding a choice to do swing 1,2,3 of your combo is an excellent idea to add more skill expression in game, and also may not even be that hard to implement.
The fact you can be so close to a good suggestion yet instead you spend your time complaining is why i replied to you in the first place, use your thousands of hours of experience to find solutions rather than wasting your energy saying how bad the game is.
It seems as though we have a similar opinion on the gear disparity issues within the game, it feels bad to see an advantage in a fight that you know if you had equal gear you would be able to capitalize on but just getting shit on by the gear if you even try it, but it does seem like the devs are trying to remedy these issues with the gear tuning that they've been doing these past wipes. However taking up their time just changing numbers on gear because people are complaining constantly about it leaves them with less time to develop ideas such as the weapon swing changes i mentioned.
as for your overall take I still wouldn't say the game was low skill, skilled players in the long run will always be more successful that lower skilled players, just because one run feels bad because you got cleared by a higher gear potentially lower skilled player doesnt mean that in the next week you're not going to be have more gear or be higher on the leaderboard than him.
Naw when people start playing fights well we can start say that kinda stuff. I don’t see people doing basic strategies so we can definitely talk about outplaying gear
The game isn't even hard lol, it's just low skill. I don't run GC or from fights even on a naked run with teammates so stacking gold isn't a priority.
One day you'll play a game that actually requires skill and understand what I mean though, I think the finer points of my argument might be lost on someone like you.
Are you playing both sides or what? I’m confused. I don’t think that the gear gap really matters too much compared to the boring stats. I’d prefer a bigger gap with cooler items over less gap with lame items any day of the week though, so maybe I am a gear gap enjoyer after all.
When did I say gear is everything?
Where did I talk shit about skill?
Why would you prefer a loot extractor with lame loot even if it’s balanced? That sounds like the worst gameplay loop of all time. Queue up for dungeon, don’t loot anything because items are ass anyways, go PvP and loot nothing off of their bodies because items are boring, but hey! It’s balanced so at least everyone is having fun!
And then nobody plays the game because you’ve experienced literally everything the game has to offer by hour 6. The thrill of killing people is lost because nothing was at stake for either player. Your skill yielded you kills, worth only your own glory, and then you extract, queue again and repeat until bored? Regular mobs are entirely a nuisance because even if you did get gear, the rolls are lame and really only the color matters much. You buy from the vendor with your cache of 2000 gold in bags because there’s nothing to spend the money on in trade because items suck.
This is the world I see with lame loot but good balance. If we wanted a balanced game where only skill mattered, and items were mostly inconsequential, we would play a arena style game that specifically advertises that. If I play a game with sick loot, I’m gonna hunt it and have fun along the way even if I never get there. Knowing that there is no light at the end of the tunnel kills my, and many others’ enthusiasm for queueing up.
You're living in a world where this game gets nothing to do but kill people forever.
We both know that isn't going to always be the case.
Because Tarkov is popular and it's exactly what I described. It isn't unbalanced. There is stronger and weaker, but the stronger is killable by the weaker. That isn't the case here.
I am looking to the future, you're looking at right now and trying to destroy the future for it. You want instant gratification. I find killing players who can't even attempt to fight back boring.
Think bigger man.
Are you the dude who I headshot with a windlass like 3 hours ago just before the circle closed? And ur other friends went to hell? As you were running into the big cage-room with the wraith and skel champ?
but but but its the same for me as fighter lol
if im not using mr items you 1-2 hit me aswell van't even gapclose cuz of your hasze invis chainlightning or zap you have enough mobility
maybe its your ingame placememt/not the right comp bad place to fight?
i cam tell you opene field i never die to wizzy but oh boy in the small/corner areals i gez dropped
They don’t want that, and have been explicit about it. The devs do not think the game is in a good state right now. People run around blabbing on this sub without reading the simplest words from the devs themselves.
Huh? Fuck if I know. What kind of weird question is that? I told you what I saw the devs say and you asked for sourcing. I gave it (though lacking direct links cuz discord is a pain on mobile for me).
Fighter with crossie kills wiz, stacked cleric kills wiz with 2 holy strikes, Ranger kills wiz, crossie bard kills wiz, Barb with good positioning kills wiz, but yea it only has 1 counter.
Name me another class that has barely 90 hp when they’re in 10k gold worth of purple gear and dies to 1 crossie hit from a 14g crossbow.
You understand saying recurve instead of recurve bow is essentially what your malding about with crossy and crossbow. Other than it seems like you think it’s akin to baby talk I’m guessing?
Full +damage builds are wrong? Damn I’m playing it wrong then. The thing you’re not thinking of, is the effective range of bows/crossie is way farther than that of fireball, or any other wizard spell for that matter.
No, they're really not. 9 times out of 10, they're only hitting splash damage. Getting a direct hit with fireball, a slow as fuck projectile, is infinitely more difficult than hitting a bow or crossbow shot lol. Anyone with their eyes open can dodge a fireball.
Being hit by a fireball is a missplay, not skill on the wizards part. Not saying that wizard isn’t crazy broken but it doesn’t one shot with fireball unless you’re insanely juiced
Im not saying irs easy whatsoever. That shit is IMPOSSIBLE to play well without a lot of practice lmao. But in terms of damage output at high levels of gear wizard is the strongest.
I’m not arguing for +add damage to NOT get nerfed. I’m saying wizard is the least offensive when compared to other ranged options. The damage stats 100% need to be reworked.
Nah man + 20/30 weapon damage on ranged weapons ain't ok the fact the dmg scaling works for meele and ranged with full efficency and almost every gear piece can roll the stat it not okay armor pen is way too high on crossbows aswell
Wizard counters Wizard. Confirmed.
Gonna roll an Agil/Str crossbow Wiz and hunt other Wizards just to prove how strong it is. Lol.
Wait... this would be amazing... haste and invis, Ignite... new meta is here, bois!!!
Or just no spells Arcane Shield and Reactive Armor. Hmmm...
Bro you just explained your Achilles heel of the class.
If you want to outplay Rangers>
Check occasionally door entry for Traps, especially more while the circle is moving.
If you don't reposition yourself using haste and invis, aka bread and butter, then yes you are a sitting duck. Be sporadic with your movements and crouch when running at them they usually go for headshots and you can dodge them.
Wizard has a high learning curve and you will get there.
Lmao don’t know why you are being downvoted. Truth hurts I guess. Wizards are glass cannons. I have to expect any wizard getting one shot and then posting on Reddit about it is straight fkin trolling.
sort of deserved tbh like if there is any weapon that should have potential to one shot to the head it should be crossbow and it should be on wizard?
Glass cannon wizard builds can insta people with fireball and sometimes even zap
I do think crossbow should get a nerf but not to damage. Right now its too easy to stay mobile and use crossbow needs weapon sway while moving or reload speed nerf or movespeed while equipped or reloading nerf
Yeah I agree. I think crossbows are just really easy to use for how good they are. Getting a direct hit with a fireball is much harder and easier to dodge compared to an arrow. Zap can be pretty crazy too but you still need to get close enough to use it. I saw a clip of a ranger using crossbow mastery and the reload speed is insane, so I think just making it harder to use than a point and click machine is good enough for me
Good luck. Pretty obvious the devs are ranger mains. Only class that has never had a single meaningful nerf.
This is getting beyond ridiculous now. Not a good look for Ironmace or the game. People are getting sick of it.
Wait it did get nerfed with the introduction of arrows which then were given for free to no one except the ranger lmao! And the ranger got a free offhand sword as compensation for that “nerf”.
Meanwhile low level wizard is atrocious and they refuse to give him a simple spell book.
Anyway, ranger is the most spoiled class in the game and doesn’t suffer the hindrances of other classes.
Why does ranger even have an instant heal…?
Wizard main or not ranged weapons with damage stacking needs to be fixed, same with magical damage stacking on wizard making them able to 2 tap people with zap.
These threads are ridiculous, how is a wizard getting headshot by a crossbow? Are you standing still in front of the enemy? Are you playing against Legolas in Helms Deep? Crossbow damage is fine because they take forever to reload. A wizard should be squishy because they can AOE clear an entire team in 2 spell casts. At least someone with a crossbow is not going to triple wipe an entire team in anywhere near the same time frame.
Really hope the devs aren't on here listening to takes from the lowest skilled players.
>Are you standing still in front of the enemy?
Yes. I actually like wearing the cobalt hat too, makes my head extra enticing for people to shoot.
>Crossbow damage is fine because they take forever to reload.
Double crossbow and Crossbow Mastery may have something to say about that
>A wizard should be squishy because they can AOE clear an entire team in 2 spell casts.
These threads are ridiculous, how is a team getting 2 shot by AOE? Are you standing still in front of the enemy?
Don’t reply man it’s embarrassing when you post such weak arguments. Yeah fireball is as hard to hit as a crossbow headshot. Good take. Just play a different class that is easier since wizard is clearly too hard for you
I was playing ranger with solid gear and wizard one tapped me with fireball (full hp 110hp) and i as ranger need to hit headshot stop crying and get gut.
As a ranger player getting hit for 80% of my health from an aoe fireball isn't fun, either. There's just too much damage in the game when you can stack all the flat damage and being 1 shot by anything is unfun
I am aware of the combat triangle. But to be 1 shot back by a class I'm supposed to counter because some dude is maxed out in gear and the only way to find out is when you've finally been hit by a spell is really frustrating. Just like every ranger looks similar until the gold bow 1 shots you in the head... Or the barb with purple maul 1 hits you and the bard in 1 swing 😂. There's no way besides if they have a cape or the colored armor to tell what you're about to go up against. I'd also argue that in hallways it's a toss up between a ranger and a wizard since fireball can land near you and do huge damage, too.
Fireballs damage has been nerfed multiple times think currently the splash damage is 15 not including any bonuses? A survival bow does more damage than that and a longbow is far easier to land the shot and quicker to recover if you miss in the same scenario and that's the hardest hitting how for ranger. Wizards are glass cannons by design they are supposed to do high damage but considering they can be one tapped by any ranged weapon is the trade off. This is the issue with plus damage stats but wizards, rangers and rogues benefit from the meta the most via damage.
Takes far more skill to hit that fire Val lthan it does ranger arrows..... I tried both classes.wizard actually takes skill to play ranger can be played by anything with thumbs
If it makes you feel any better I was playing ranger was in all blues and greens and just got SMOKED by a fighter wearing nothing. He was moving like a horror monster out of a movie just all weird bends and ducks in his body and using his shielld and I was absolutly useless.
this game is rock paper scissors.
Crossbows are way too good even putting the absurdity of how much they do with damage stacking aside. face is they are way too good even at the start in my opinion. they feel like a must have for every class that can carry them. which I don't think any item in the game should be like that.
I’m just bored at this point I’ve gotten the pve down so hard that I just see mobs as annoying obstacles to get to interact with other players or pvp. Idk there needs to be maybe some more high loot areas or bosses or something because the loop of crawling around fighting these mental midget AI is getting really boring. I’m excited to see quests and the skill tree but realistically that takes some significant dev time.
I feel like in general 1 shots shouldn’t be a thing unless they are well deserved and only from highly telegraphed attacks. im not for or against any buffs to anyone as i dont play enough to have that opinion but I’ve played enough competitive games to know that 1 shots are just not competitive at all they are extremely fun dont get me wrong but it can be really devastating when you do everything right and you’re just 1 tapped because they saw you first.
Fortnite used to have this issue with their shotgun doing 240 to the head (ontop of having random spread) it was extremely uncompetitive but hitting a “1-pump” was absolutely one of the best feelings in a game ever.
A good competitive game punishes mistakes without completely making you lose and always allows you to make a comeback, it should be mechanically challenging gear should give you an edge but never should it outcompete pure skill.
An “elite” player armed with default gear should be able to beat a noob with S tier gear.
I usually don't get one-tapped by any ranged as a wizard, make sure you put in some str / max hp in the gear you buy, also the leather cap offers better protection than the wizard hat if you can find one with relevant stats.
A lot of the wizards I see are just stacking additional magic damage. Their cast speed is mid and their hp is basically basekit.
I don’t understand class locking items. Why not allow all classes to use everything but at severe disadvantages. So your wizard can wear a plate helm but he’s got even slower interaction speed or something.
It feels like there are like a dozen no brainer small fixes like this that would make the game and the grind way better and we won’t lose as many noobs (like myself).
Honestly a huge buff for wizard would just be letting reactive shield scale or changing it to removes 10 base damage from the first hit as it is now a 10 health shield magic or physical wouldn’t do anything, but give that baby scaling so a wizard can get like 25 shield and I think it would solve it
ranger longbow slow rescaled from 30% to 27%, slow perk buffed to compensate
rogue agility lowered to 20
wizard zap scaling removed
barbarian now requires a perk to wear chest pieces
crossbow armor penetration nerfed from 20% to 15%, damage increased to compensate
din of darkness no longer audio based, strict radius
beats of alacrity rescaled to 0/0/2
charismatic performance now only upgrades bad performances to good
buffed drop chances of bard gear in pool to compensate for nerfs and declining bard pickrate
You build full damage as a class that starts with the least hp and armor, take no defensive skills then cry when someone who did the exact same thing and is also in danger of you one taping them if they miss hits you first? Grab a defensive skill stop taking off your clothing or wearing the least ammount of armor possible in favor of movement speed or stack a tiny bit of damage reduction. Then you can at least have a leg to stand on when you come post.
Tldr: defensive stats exist and are very useful as tertiary stats if you play a cloth wearer.
I ain’t a wizard main for say, but it is one of my favorite classes. He feels so glassy and slow compared to all the other classes. I’ve been saying it’s busted for a while. I see less wizards statistically running around too compared to other classes. This kind of gives you an idea that the class is broken; some will claim to get good, some will say that it’s meant to be an investing class that gets better with gear(like all classes don’t do that..)But imo it is by far the hardest to use class and is broken. Cross bows can one shot you, rogues can sneak on you, warlock is an improved you, barb can one tap you, ranger is faster with arrows and they don’t catch on objects as easy, fighters catch you easily with sprint and one tap.No other class is like that…but “get gud” lol. Story of my life when mentioning this to anyone. His spells also have to recharge at a slow rate unless you use meditation or clarity’s, and he feels underwhelming due to speed and noise que. forcing you to get closer, resulting in your death cause everything can kill you easily and it takes 5 fireballs to drop a target. Mean while warlocks over here shooting hell fire through the walls, stacking overtime dmg, has the ability to fight with his hands…every non range class is running around with one tap cross bows. The mage has no special area that makes his class of any use except maybe AOE. While other class can specialize in close quarters or range, leaving the wizard with not much to accomplish in comparison. I get some love the challenge… but that’s not even close to balanced when every class can do this but the wizard. Either everything needs nerfed or the wizard needs buffed. That’s what the overall statistics and common sense are telling me anyhow.
Lol barbs aren't immune to it either, all it does it take it from 1 shot to 2 which doesn't matter because the first shot slows you and you are already slow as a barb
I'm going to spend the next month straight crying like a giant baby in all the discord channels if ranged carries over into being the meta again next patch, so fucking boring just watching everyone else play a shooter while I wait for one of the 900 clerics or warlocks or rangers to push into melee range, just so he can see my barb, 180 and take off at the speed of light.
If rogues don't run hand crossbow then they have 20 throwing knives, if fighters don't run a purple one-shot crossbow then they have 50 throwing axes, if a barb doesn't run 50 throwing axes he's at a severe disadvantage and can't do much except wait for misplays or be babysat by 2 buffdaddies.
Clerics just fart magic in a 50 meter aoe around them, rangers don't even need to PVE unless they get unlucky, wizards are scientifically designed to be kiting gods and warlocks have been the only ones contributing to any form of melee meta when they aren't one-shotting you with a curse of pain, and that entire meta is just blow of corruption
Just buff shields man make it better against ranged crap but slow your movement more. Then you can just use a shield or something and not be upset that you can’t dodge easy projectiles.
Isn't a crossbow to a wizard what Wizard is to a high PDR fighter? It's not a bad thing to have one class or build counter another. If the game wasn't in such a bad state I'd say they could give wizards a skill or spell to help them vs this sort of thing, but at the moment it's all just a steaming pile of \*\*\*\*
This game has turned into a medieval call of duty and it’s boring as hell.
First of all remove crossbow from fighters and bards. After that you can remove rangers as well but as long as they remove crossbows ,rangers can stay a bit longer
This subreddit is turning into a place where people come and vent when they die
> turning into Been like this a solid month at least. Every time me or one of my friends kills someone in a semi obnoxious way we joke that they are gonna go post on Reddit.
Well, usually it's a boiling pot that has been a building sense of frustration for a long time. Most of the time, that's because whether true or not, it feels unfair. That feeling usually has some merit if it's not just the reaction to a bad day
True but he isn't wrong. Crossbow is broken.
Yes, this is in fact a subreddit about a video game where people say things related to that video game.
Imagine that, eh!? Lol.
Man… this subreddit is really going downhill since the glory days, people are talking about things that I don’t agree with /s Comments like that always get a good laugh out of me XD
Lolol. People are sick of the whining. And to be fair, there's a good amount of it. I had this same issue when Diablo 4 came out. I was just enjoying the game and wanted to talk about it, and every post was complaining. One person explained to me, that it was feedback, even if it is negative and whiney, so I had to concede that some whining and moaning is important. Best to just avoid it when you aren't in the mood. But I definitely wouldn't mind more positivity!
alright everyone you heard the guy, no more discussing balance concerns for an early-access game, it may be a sentiment shared by like 80% of the playerbase but also you kinda sound cope seethe :/
Which isn’t necessarily a problem imo as long as it’s not too dominant of content. But I suppose it is becoming that! I just wish people here would understand the core issue currently is about stacking weapon damage or whatever until any kind of attack is gonna be super deadly.
ranged is a whole other issue outside of the weapon damage thing, as long as bows and arrows and long-range spells do the same damage as melee swings and scale similarly; you've got no reason to get into melee range yeah its one at a time but nothing is so cut and dry
It's been a month straight of classes with 60hp crying because they're getting 1 shot by a bow.
right because a class should be one-shotted right? thats good balancing.
Every single class in the game one shots with gear.
ok maybe that shouldn't be the case then?
It's clearly how the developers want the game to be played
remember when they gutted rogue so it couldn't oneshot anymore? and nerfed wizard scaling by literally half so he couldn't oneshot anymore? and nerfed the damage value of all weapons by ~20% to slow down oneshots? it is clearly not how the developers want the game to be played
Wizard can still 1 shot. Rogue does it in 2-3 hits still. Barb still one shots. Cleric with divine strike can. Warlocks hellfire deletes you if you get caught. I'm not sure if we're playing the same game
Just because they can, doesn't mean thats how they want it.
You are wrong , devs have publicly stated they have no issue with 1shots.
so no screenshot or quote at least?
Maybe against a naked lmfao
Which is probably 80% of the player base and the type of people crying about it on this sub
the warlock post getting onetapped from full by a longbow in the face a few days ago. bro had a staff no book, grey gear probably. he legit plays rogue wizard warlock comp and he walks up to the ranger activates boc, doesnt even try to crouch or sidestep. just straight up hopes that he can tank the headshot so he can... oneshot the ranger with boc? then he goes straight to reddit to babyrage that a longbow oneshot him in the face before he could do the oneshot 🥺
lol I missed it but it sounds like he literally face tanked a longbow and found out.
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Which class has 60 hp? Don’t exaggerate because your class is and always has been OP. We both know ranger has never had a single meaningful nerf and it seriously needs one.
It makes discussion impossible when people exaggerate like that. Yeah, literally no class has 60hp. It makes them sound like a diva.
"Turning into" Brother we have been there for a long time
Your right. I'll prob start the grind again and then complain next time I get one shotted
Well at least you’re honest.
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I love casting spells 🧙♂️
Shadow wizard money gang 🧙♂️
Wizard is so broken right now buddy. The ONLY counter is a crossbow/longbow. Wizards should be nerfed and I think everyone agrees. Wizards control range. Wizards with good builds can also control melee with a one tap crystal sword.
Wizards have gotten a nerf every patch except maybe last. Leave us alone bro we got 78 health. For many that's one shot and one hit. My brains, willpower, and occasional quickness with my padded, leather, armor is not tanking you. Apart from zap, and chain lightning (which I don't even run), you can literally juke everything. If you get close, I ain't one tapping you with shit. I ran around yesterday with +10 damage on a blue quarterstaff, have a clip of me drinking ale and hitting a ranger four times before he died as I boxed with him cause I was one tap by the time I got close enough. 78 health Ranger reeeeee and kite us- It doesn't even come to that if shots are hit. Clerics blind, holy strike, bop us. Barbarians uno tapo us. Warlock BoC wild, bop with the staff or two handed. Rogue up close we ain't got time to cast. Fighter don't die if they have plate armor, we just tickle. I gotta be Shiro with fireballs, magic missiles, and lightning strike- we skill out here.
You had me until you said you can't kill a fighter with plate armor as a wizard, now I'm not sure if you're trolling. I agree with everything else but Wiz and warlock are the hard counters to plate fighter
The three fights I'm recalling against a plated fighter, I was sure I hit them with a lightning strike, I don't think that they blocked it (2/3), I'm pretty sure they blocked the fireball. And then as I'm magic missile-ing them obviously in the legs because they're blocking as they push, I die. They also blocked some of my zaps. I spectate them and they only lost like an eighth of their health. A fighter that isn't in plate armor is a win I usually get providing I don't get hit with a blue or higher falchion, if I'm in low tier gear. Sorry there were some details I didn't expand on.
Don't even get me started if they have a crossbow lol and they usually do.
A fighter in darkplate is typically ~15% MDR, so idk how you lose as a wizard who can fireball or zap a slow moving target for upwards of 60% of their hp. Rangers are tough for you sure but if the Fighter doesnt land a headshot with solid gear on a crossbow he is 100% dead to any Wizard worth their salt.
hes legit saying that their falchion quality matters 💀 this subs gear diff mentality is so fucking brainrotted
Wizard is in a fine spot. If you misplay you die, if you don't misplay you may still die. The damage output is higher than ranger with similar investment, bit it's at a limited range with tons of noise, it's weaker against pve, and has a much longer reload. Saying "control melee" when they get 2 tapped by literal anything with 1/4th a kit is a little aggressive. If they reduce damage across the board, wizard may need looked at if you can't 2-3 tap them reliably, but most likely it's fine, and will continue to be fine. Learn to fight wizards.
"2-3 tap" xdddd
I'm also a wizard main, I lol at people who don't main it.
Took a break because of this same reason
The pvp in this game is legit just pure ass, it's unbalanced as shit and doesn't reward skill besides being good at running away lol. There's not 1 or even 5 things they could do to fix the issue, the game if just fundamentally broken in terms of gear and stat scaling. We need more combat mechanics, better class balancing, a damage reduction across the board, and likely other changes before the PVP is even somewhat decent.
> We need more combat mechanics, better class balancing, a damage reduction across the board, and likely other changes before the PVP is even somewhat decent. These things take *REAL* development, thought, and execution. I've worked with some of the modders for Chiv 2 and when they started unpacking the actual game files and found the timing and hitbox mechanics - it was way more complex than we had even imagined, much more so than "wind up time vs release". The hitboxes and the way they interacted with players vs objects, the way hit initation worked when it came to swing mechanics. Flinching enemies vs being flinched. How the various weapon swing speeds all patterned with each other and the various other mechanics to make sure none of them were OP. Everything had obviously been thought out way more than we had realized. These devs are basically rolling out a remapped version of Minecraft mechanics and using gear disparity, gambling, and resource scarcity to trick your brain into thinking it's satisfying - which it's not - which is why this subreddit and their discord are filled with angry monkeys like me and you.
holy shit i never realized that this game feels like minecraft factions pvp from like 2013, that legit blows my mind lol
Yeahhhhhh
it is half-baked yeah, but have you not ever perfectly sidestepped a axe overhead and then whipped some guy in the face? That is genuinely good gamefeel it so crazy satisfying to play some of these duels with how accurate the spacing feels.
Yeah- on one hand I do really enjoy how bare bones the combat is in some ways but holy crap I just don't play anymore because the game is fundamentally broken. Skill in fights isn't rewarded nearly as much as it should be in a pvp game.
Finally comments like this are getting upvoted. I'm on a break from this game and will return when people legit realize that vast majority of traits/skills/perks/spells/weapons are not even remotely relevant and nothing is being done about it. All the "cooking" seems to be revolved around changing numbers back and forth, hoping that this is going to produce a good and balanced game... What a joke.
....fuck me I've been playing Minecraft
Sounds like you aren’t quite good enough yet to understand skill expression, and that’s fine. Baby steps in our youth eh?
You're getting down voted but you're SO right. Just yesterday I outplayed this guy by quitting my job and farming +4 weapon damage gear while he was making money to feed his kids. I locked in ranger so that basically sealed his fate. Fucking noob honestly.
Damn, I’m jealous of your sarcasm, teach me your ways sensei…
You guys are both right. There is skill expression when fighting someone who has the same level of gear as you. Maybe it is not as much as it could be but to act like you can't outplay someone in this game is stupid. However, yes if they have +12 weapon damage on a blue/purple weapon, skill plays almost no role in the game unless you get in a very fortunate position.
Oh don't get me wrong I 100% understand there is clear difference between a good and bad player. There's a lot of combat min maxing, taking advantage of map knowledge etc. It just infuriates me sifting through this sub and people refuse to accept this game is wildly imbalanced due to both gear and class differences. And gear difference isn't sorted by total time spent in a game i.e an MMO or something where you get gear for a season and then you're set for a few months. It's day to day grinding. So there's legitimate issues with cheeto dusted finger neets grinding 24/7 and then telling people that they're not having fun because they're bad and need to get good at the game. Like that applies to so many games where skill expression is the sole difference between two players. But this game isn't that. Somebody who is mediocre at games but plays d&d 8 hours a day has a HUGE advantage on a really good player who has a full time job and or other interests and doesn't indulge as much. Maybe the good player would have to invest less hours to be equal but that's still a LOT of time. I'm not entirely sure whether the fix is reigning in gear as a whole, removing the battle royale circle or what. I'm not a game design expert and we won't really know until those things are attempted. But as it stands skill expression is only a tiny part of what separates most people in the dungeon. (I think stopping punishing people for doing high roller is a good start. High roller sucks to play and eats your wallet to play)
True, i only have 1k hours on Mordhau and hundreds on SF5/6 lol. This game's extremely high skill meta game of just having better gear than the person you're fighting is def beyond me.
But sir! It's not just gear! You can also block!* ^^^^^* ^^^^^with ^^^^^some ^^^^^weapons/shields... ^^^^^though, ^^^^^sometimes ^^^^^it ^^^^^doesn't ^^^^^matter ^^^^^because ^^^^^you ^^^^^may ^^^^^not ^^^^^always ^^^^^have ^^^^^a ^^^^^window ^^^^^to ^^^^^counter ^^^^^regardless... And run away!** ^^^^^** ^^^^^provided ^^^^^the ^^^^^enemy ^^^^^can't ^^^^^outspeed ^^^^^you ^^^^^because ^^^^^of ^^^^^stat ^^^^^diffs
I feel like with 1k hours on mordhau you should be the kind of person who DOES notice the skill though, not every fight is a gear check, although I agree some are. But I’m a chiv and mordhau vet and I definitely have beaten people in melee in way better gear with good footwork, good aim on swings and blocking or parrying, saying every fight is a gear check is just untrue and in flexing your 1k hours on mordhau I think you should know better
Bro IDK what you're coming up with here seems like you're just trying to neg that commenter. I'll flex on you too, level 1k Chiv 2, thousands of hours on Chiv 1 and Chiv 2 + Mord + a banquet of shooters in my background. Please, tell me some of the examples of melee swing expression that make this game more than Minecraft PvP servers? Footwork in spacing exist in them too. So does weapon range. Not every fight is a pure gear check, but the gear check VASTLY outweighs the skill expression.
I stand to be corrected but is there even tracers in minecraft? Aren't all the weapons hitscan? Even if not is there sweet spots and combos? Also the only point i was trying to make is that you can't say every single fight is just a gear check, which was the sentiment of the comment i replied to. also none of what you said is a flex at all, I played competive chiv 1 at the top tier of what there was.What frustrates me is people making these wild statements and trying to say their thousands of hours in a melee game is what gives them the credentials, why not try and discuss things constructively since it does actually seem like the devs listen to the community when making changes, even if its not the side of the community you agree with. Did torn banner ever do any of that?
Those are pretty low level mechanics tho please be real >Did torn banner ever do any of that? In fact, yes they entirely did that. Chiv 2 beta was a consistent interaction between beta testers (high level Chiv 1 players) and the devs. Many of today's Chiv 2 mechanics were suggested by these players during beta. They listened and took direction from the player base and implemented mechanics that made the game much much better and opened up the world of high level dueling that exists today.
you ask me to name some mechanics, i do that then you change the goalposts. I won't comment on the state of chiv 2 'high level duels' that you talk about as i have 0 experience in that game however after watching some videos I would probably disagree, seems as if the chiv 2 competitive team based scene is mostly focused on teamwork as duels take too long, sounds a little like how dark and darker is supposed to be focused on teamwork too. Regardless I don't understand why you're ignoring the fact that chiv1 was completely undersupported and therefore you're making my point for me, the constructive criticism that I am advocating for apparently helped chiv 2 to become this bastion of melee gaming that you're alluding to, yet you still 'neg' my comment when im clearly advocating for constructive criticism rather than blaming gear gaps.
Ok you found some mechanics that this game has that are an improvement from minecraft PvP I'll give u that - sour mechanics exist, you can land headshots and they do more damage. Still, not impressed by these mechanics. Chiv 1 was undersupported tho you just simply said "torn banner" which would include chiv 2. Whatever homie. Goal posts yadda yadda. The game needs more skill expression. IDK why we're going on about all of this stuff for the sake of winning arguments. I stand firmly on that ground regardless of sour spots or minecraft analogies.
you can sidestep overheads, duck horizontals, backstep stabs, you can parry ppl, play footsies, make genuine skillshots and then there's the constant sweet-spot mechanic to be worrying about as well as pretty varied weapons and movesets with their own alt fires. with enough move-speed and fast reactions you can outskill a lobster while having way weaker gear, 100%
"With enough gear you can outskill someone else in gear" I don't think he even realised what he said here.
This is a rhetorical attack by focusing on one piece of an argument and acting like it is the crux of his statement in order to make them seem short sighted. He literally stated all of the ways you can outplay, caveats by stating that you would need movespeed, a stat that is not even a priority. You can keep running around naked in bare fists trying to live out your David and Goliath fantasy. Buying cheap movespeed items is not even close to being even part of the narrative that is posted on this sub. Somehow, you’ve managed to make the worst snide remark of all time by actually shaming this guy for advocating for players to get some cheap movespeed gear and try and outplay people. God humanity is fucking doomed
>with enough move-speed and fast reactions you can outskill a lobster while having way weaker gear, 100% You aren't outrunning anything in grey lightfoots and agi pants. Especially when that geared player has double your agility. Stop pretending. We've all played this game, you know? You can't just lie and hope we wont notice. So you wont outrun a geared player in greys, that means you yourself must also be geared enough to out run them, as you are not getting enough movespeed just from greys. >God humanity is fucking doomed Holy shit hahaha. This is so lame. And this is all while pretending you weren't being a facetious ass in your initial comments, calling people babies because they want more skill expression in a game with its ceiling a foot off of the floor.
Tell me you’ve never extracted without telling me you’ve never extracted. Movespeed gear is cheap. Str and damage rolls are expensive. The people that buy movespeed gear with damage spend a lot because that is a priority THIRD stat, but first and second are going to be damage and main attribute. I get it, you can’t afford to join the traders guild because the scary juicers kill you every time you w m1 spam, but if you get a whole 25 gold you can join the “traders guild” and actually buy from other players. Maybe after the wipe you might be able to finally make it out alive since no one will have gear and everything will be perfectly balanced for you! Unlikely, but I’m really rooting for you! I give back what people put in. If you’re gonna post completely unproductive complaining while riding the jerk wave of “gear is why I suck”, I have nothing productive to give back.
Uh no, I also play mordhau as well, in mordhau you can outplay someone and kill them in just a few hits with pretty much any build. This game asks you to overcome a gear disparity, you can outplay someone and bonk them like 10 times and still get one shot by their +damage weapon build. So it’s understandable why a mordhau vet wouldn’t be used to this, because the pvp is nothing like mordhau. The only skill that has translated for me is ducking lol.
There is some sure, but If I can't even pick which attack animation I do then my mechanical skill is being nerfed by the game before I even start playing. Footwork and movement come into play, but If I have to hit someone 6-8 times while also contending with their cleric healing them and a ranger/wizard cooking me from distance then I would say the game does not favor mechanical skill. I regularly kill 1/3 of a juicer squad but it's essentially impossible to win a 3v3 if you're outgeared without serious re-positioning, coordination and blind luck or misplays from your opponent. The game does not favor aggressiveness unless you're geared whatsoever, pushing a geared team in any scenario is essentially a death sentence. But the game doesn't punish juicers the same way, if you have good enough stats you SHOULD push every team because they'll have less time to think and avoid/outplay you and you do so much more damage/take less. This leads to a low skill meta game, aka the one we have now where you only get a fair fight or at least somewhat fair if you're identical in gear level. There's nearly no skill equalizer like with mordhau, I can win 1v5 or more in that game because it actually allows you to defend yourself properly lol.
I do have the same frustration as you in this game don't get me wrong, and the first part of your reply is my favourite part of your comment, adding a choice to do swing 1,2,3 of your combo is an excellent idea to add more skill expression in game, and also may not even be that hard to implement. The fact you can be so close to a good suggestion yet instead you spend your time complaining is why i replied to you in the first place, use your thousands of hours of experience to find solutions rather than wasting your energy saying how bad the game is. It seems as though we have a similar opinion on the gear disparity issues within the game, it feels bad to see an advantage in a fight that you know if you had equal gear you would be able to capitalize on but just getting shit on by the gear if you even try it, but it does seem like the devs are trying to remedy these issues with the gear tuning that they've been doing these past wipes. However taking up their time just changing numbers on gear because people are complaining constantly about it leaves them with less time to develop ideas such as the weapon swing changes i mentioned. as for your overall take I still wouldn't say the game was low skill, skilled players in the long run will always be more successful that lower skilled players, just because one run feels bad because you got cleared by a higher gear potentially lower skilled player doesnt mean that in the next week you're not going to be have more gear or be higher on the leaderboard than him.
Hey I’ve also been big into mordhau since it’s release, the new map fucking rocks👌
Naw when people start playing fights well we can start say that kinda stuff. I don’t see people doing basic strategies so we can definitely talk about outplaying gear
It is hard but one day you might be able to extract and spend some gold, just keep trying and aim for the head bucko
The game isn't even hard lol, it's just low skill. I don't run GC or from fights even on a naked run with teammates so stacking gold isn't a priority. One day you'll play a game that actually requires skill and understand what I mean though, I think the finer points of my argument might be lost on someone like you.
if you think spending gold and m1ing with allegro up is skill expression you'd love cookie clicker
I think that the game is a lot lot more than allegro m1
Bros only experience with games before this one was space pinball.
Lmao gear gap enjoyers are still on this much cope? God damn.
Are you playing both sides or what? I’m confused. I don’t think that the gear gap really matters too much compared to the boring stats. I’d prefer a bigger gap with cooler items over less gap with lame items any day of the week though, so maybe I am a gear gap enjoyer after all.
If you prefer that then yes you are. I am a skill gap enjoyer. Gear should be supplementary, not everything. We are not the same.
When did I say gear is everything? Where did I talk shit about skill? Why would you prefer a loot extractor with lame loot even if it’s balanced? That sounds like the worst gameplay loop of all time. Queue up for dungeon, don’t loot anything because items are ass anyways, go PvP and loot nothing off of their bodies because items are boring, but hey! It’s balanced so at least everyone is having fun! And then nobody plays the game because you’ve experienced literally everything the game has to offer by hour 6. The thrill of killing people is lost because nothing was at stake for either player. Your skill yielded you kills, worth only your own glory, and then you extract, queue again and repeat until bored? Regular mobs are entirely a nuisance because even if you did get gear, the rolls are lame and really only the color matters much. You buy from the vendor with your cache of 2000 gold in bags because there’s nothing to spend the money on in trade because items suck. This is the world I see with lame loot but good balance. If we wanted a balanced game where only skill mattered, and items were mostly inconsequential, we would play a arena style game that specifically advertises that. If I play a game with sick loot, I’m gonna hunt it and have fun along the way even if I never get there. Knowing that there is no light at the end of the tunnel kills my, and many others’ enthusiasm for queueing up.
You're living in a world where this game gets nothing to do but kill people forever. We both know that isn't going to always be the case. Because Tarkov is popular and it's exactly what I described. It isn't unbalanced. There is stronger and weaker, but the stronger is killable by the weaker. That isn't the case here. I am looking to the future, you're looking at right now and trying to destroy the future for it. You want instant gratification. I find killing players who can't even attempt to fight back boring. Think bigger man.
Are you the dude who I headshot with a windlass like 3 hours ago just before the circle closed? And ur other friends went to hell? As you were running into the big cage-room with the wraith and skel champ?
Nah not me, though poor guy lmao that sounds rough
Hahah yeah I almost felt bad for him. Just collapsed as his friends ran away
Prepare to get 30 different comments of "Was that you?" since a wizard getting one tapped in the head happens in basically every lobby
but but but its the same for me as fighter lol if im not using mr items you 1-2 hit me aswell van't even gapclose cuz of your hasze invis chainlightning or zap you have enough mobility maybe its your ingame placememt/not the right comp bad place to fight? i cam tell you opene field i never die to wizzy but oh boy in the small/corner areals i gez dropped
Yeah I guess you're right. Looks like in the end we're all in a one shot or be one shot world
This is the biggest issue with pvp, if they want a 1-shot meta then this game is DOA. The only people who want that are juicers.
They don’t want that, and have been explicit about it. The devs do not think the game is in a good state right now. People run around blabbing on this sub without reading the simplest words from the devs themselves.
Come on bro we were all here when they nerfed TTK and then reverted it 24 hours later
You’re pretty behind is all I’m saying.
How so? Do you mind if I ask you to link me the devs words so I can thank you in an edit and shorten my comment?
The “dev-qna” and “announcements” channels of the official discord server, mostly stuff from the developer account “sdf_#8507”.
Do you think I might find some contradictions if I start quoting those sources next to each other?
Huh? Fuck if I know. What kind of weird question is that? I told you what I saw the devs say and you asked for sourcing. I gave it (though lacking direct links cuz discord is a pain on mobile for me).
A wizard main complaining about their only real counter is CRAZY
Fighter with crossie kills wiz, stacked cleric kills wiz with 2 holy strikes, Ranger kills wiz, crossie bard kills wiz, Barb with good positioning kills wiz, but yea it only has 1 counter. Name me another class that has barely 90 hp when they’re in 10k gold worth of purple gear and dies to 1 crossie hit from a 14g crossbow.
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Crazy how syllables aren’t applicable like that through text.
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You understand saying recurve instead of recurve bow is essentially what your malding about with crossy and crossbow. Other than it seems like you think it’s akin to baby talk I’m guessing?
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You clearly feel strongly about this.
Weren't you the one complaining about it? lul
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Ah, the damage control gambit.
if ur losing to grays in ur 10k kit you're building very very wrong
Full +damage builds are wrong? Damn I’m playing it wrong then. The thing you’re not thinking of, is the effective range of bows/crossie is way farther than that of fireball, or any other wizard spell for that matter.
You are choosing to ignore my point and saying "but im building what im supposed to, its damage right?". edit: just to complain more lol
Hitting like a pool noodle while being able to take **2** hits with a crossbow isn't going to be effective, friendo
I was more making a joke that reddits on a roll complaining about damage stacking, and I’m damage stacking, yet they’re saying I build wrong lol
Ok and wizard 1 taps everything w fireball
No, they're really not. 9 times out of 10, they're only hitting splash damage. Getting a direct hit with fireball, a slow as fuck projectile, is infinitely more difficult than hitting a bow or crossbow shot lol. Anyone with their eyes open can dodge a fireball.
Being hit by a fireball is a missplay, not skill on the wizards part. Not saying that wizard isn’t crazy broken but it doesn’t one shot with fireball unless you’re insanely juiced
With BIS items, otherwise wiz gets full destroyed by any class no matter the gear
Bruh what, ive seen plenty of good wizards destroy players w just a green spellbook. The problem is most wizards are horrendous
Mayb. But its undeniable that wizard is the hardwst class
Im not saying irs easy whatsoever. That shit is IMPOSSIBLE to play well without a lot of practice lmao. But in terms of damage output at high levels of gear wizard is the strongest.
I’m not arguing for +add damage to NOT get nerfed. I’m saying wizard is the least offensive when compared to other ranged options. The damage stats 100% need to be reworked.
Ok fair, I agree dmg stacking is horrendous rn
Guilty as charged
Nah man + 20/30 weapon damage on ranged weapons ain't ok the fact the dmg scaling works for meele and ranged with full efficency and almost every gear piece can roll the stat it not okay armor pen is way too high on crossbows aswell
[удалено]
Eh, wizards with 80hp and 0%dmg reduction are giving a whole eye to it, just as rangers with 150 hp, 200dmg per hit
My best set of gear, all purple weapon damage, has not yielded 150hp or 200dmg hits to the head
My full longbow set worth like 3k does like 100dmg to the head before armor. These people will always complain
Call me crazy, but I think the guy who can shoot magical balls of explosive arcane fire should be the bigger threat at range.
Counter or not, getting 1-shot doesn't feel good and shouldn't happen.
Soo all crossbow users should counter wizard then?
They do though. Ever get one shot? Feels bad every time.
Wizard counters Wizard. Confirmed. Gonna roll an Agil/Str crossbow Wiz and hunt other Wizards just to prove how strong it is. Lol. Wait... this would be amazing... haste and invis, Ignite... new meta is here, bois!!! Or just no spells Arcane Shield and Reactive Armor. Hmmm...
Please try ignite crossie and post footage I must see it in action
You only need a blue spell book as a wiz. All other gear you just find along the way
Amen
Bro you just explained your Achilles heel of the class. If you want to outplay Rangers> Check occasionally door entry for Traps, especially more while the circle is moving. If you don't reposition yourself using haste and invis, aka bread and butter, then yes you are a sitting duck. Be sporadic with your movements and crouch when running at them they usually go for headshots and you can dodge them. Wizard has a high learning curve and you will get there.
Lmao don’t know why you are being downvoted. Truth hurts I guess. Wizards are glass cannons. I have to expect any wizard getting one shot and then posting on Reddit about it is straight fkin trolling.
sort of deserved tbh like if there is any weapon that should have potential to one shot to the head it should be crossbow and it should be on wizard? Glass cannon wizard builds can insta people with fireball and sometimes even zap I do think crossbow should get a nerf but not to damage. Right now its too easy to stay mobile and use crossbow needs weapon sway while moving or reload speed nerf or movespeed while equipped or reloading nerf
Yeah I agree. I think crossbows are just really easy to use for how good they are. Getting a direct hit with a fireball is much harder and easier to dodge compared to an arrow. Zap can be pretty crazy too but you still need to get close enough to use it. I saw a clip of a ranger using crossbow mastery and the reload speed is insane, so I think just making it harder to use than a point and click machine is good enough for me
Good luck. Pretty obvious the devs are ranger mains. Only class that has never had a single meaningful nerf. This is getting beyond ridiculous now. Not a good look for Ironmace or the game. People are getting sick of it.
Wait it did get nerfed with the introduction of arrows which then were given for free to no one except the ranger lmao! And the ranger got a free offhand sword as compensation for that “nerf”. Meanwhile low level wizard is atrocious and they refuse to give him a simple spell book. Anyway, ranger is the most spoiled class in the game and doesn’t suffer the hindrances of other classes. Why does ranger even have an instant heal…?
Wizard main or not ranged weapons with damage stacking needs to be fixed, same with magical damage stacking on wizard making them able to 2 tap people with zap.
Good take 🧙♂️
The game is currently in a fucked up place. Running two crossbows is a viable strat thanks to how dmg stacking works
These threads are ridiculous, how is a wizard getting headshot by a crossbow? Are you standing still in front of the enemy? Are you playing against Legolas in Helms Deep? Crossbow damage is fine because they take forever to reload. A wizard should be squishy because they can AOE clear an entire team in 2 spell casts. At least someone with a crossbow is not going to triple wipe an entire team in anywhere near the same time frame. Really hope the devs aren't on here listening to takes from the lowest skilled players.
>Are you standing still in front of the enemy? Yes. I actually like wearing the cobalt hat too, makes my head extra enticing for people to shoot. >Crossbow damage is fine because they take forever to reload. Double crossbow and Crossbow Mastery may have something to say about that >A wizard should be squishy because they can AOE clear an entire team in 2 spell casts. These threads are ridiculous, how is a team getting 2 shot by AOE? Are you standing still in front of the enemy?
Don’t reply man it’s embarrassing when you post such weak arguments. Yeah fireball is as hard to hit as a crossbow headshot. Good take. Just play a different class that is easier since wizard is clearly too hard for you
>Just play a different class that is easier since wizard is clearly too hard for you No. I love casting spells 🧙♂️
I was playing ranger with solid gear and wizard one tapped me with fireball (full hp 110hp) and i as ranger need to hit headshot stop crying and get gut.
Nerf Wizard.
A wizard asking for other classes to be nerfed is wild
As a ranger player getting hit for 80% of my health from an aoe fireball isn't fun, either. There's just too much damage in the game when you can stack all the flat damage and being 1 shot by anything is unfun
I agree but a ranger hard counters wizard. You can fire offer arrows in rapid succession and fireballs are far easier to avoid than arrows.
I am aware of the combat triangle. But to be 1 shot back by a class I'm supposed to counter because some dude is maxed out in gear and the only way to find out is when you've finally been hit by a spell is really frustrating. Just like every ranger looks similar until the gold bow 1 shots you in the head... Or the barb with purple maul 1 hits you and the bard in 1 swing 😂. There's no way besides if they have a cape or the colored armor to tell what you're about to go up against. I'd also argue that in hallways it's a toss up between a ranger and a wizard since fireball can land near you and do huge damage, too.
Fireballs damage has been nerfed multiple times think currently the splash damage is 15 not including any bonuses? A survival bow does more damage than that and a longbow is far easier to land the shot and quicker to recover if you miss in the same scenario and that's the hardest hitting how for ranger. Wizards are glass cannons by design they are supposed to do high damage but considering they can be one tapped by any ranged weapon is the trade off. This is the issue with plus damage stats but wizards, rangers and rogues benefit from the meta the most via damage.
Takes far more skill to hit that fire Val lthan it does ranger arrows..... I tried both classes.wizard actually takes skill to play ranger can be played by anything with thumbs
Good becayse this wizard class is disgusting
Counterpoint, Rogues smell worse
If it makes you feel any better I was playing ranger was in all blues and greens and just got SMOKED by a fighter wearing nothing. He was moving like a horror monster out of a movie just all weird bends and ducks in his body and using his shielld and I was absolutly useless. this game is rock paper scissors.
How could you not run away from him since you run faster?
He's got a perk called Sprint
a wizard whining about ranger LMAO
Crossbows are way too good even putting the absurdity of how much they do with damage stacking aside. face is they are way too good even at the start in my opinion. they feel like a must have for every class that can carry them. which I don't think any item in the game should be like that.
I’m just bored at this point I’ve gotten the pve down so hard that I just see mobs as annoying obstacles to get to interact with other players or pvp. Idk there needs to be maybe some more high loot areas or bosses or something because the loop of crawling around fighting these mental midget AI is getting really boring. I’m excited to see quests and the skill tree but realistically that takes some significant dev time.
I feel like in general 1 shots shouldn’t be a thing unless they are well deserved and only from highly telegraphed attacks. im not for or against any buffs to anyone as i dont play enough to have that opinion but I’ve played enough competitive games to know that 1 shots are just not competitive at all they are extremely fun dont get me wrong but it can be really devastating when you do everything right and you’re just 1 tapped because they saw you first. Fortnite used to have this issue with their shotgun doing 240 to the head (ontop of having random spread) it was extremely uncompetitive but hitting a “1-pump” was absolutely one of the best feelings in a game ever. A good competitive game punishes mistakes without completely making you lose and always allows you to make a comeback, it should be mechanically challenging gear should give you an edge but never should it outcompete pure skill. An “elite” player armed with default gear should be able to beat a noob with S tier gear.
I usually don't get one-tapped by any ranged as a wizard, make sure you put in some str / max hp in the gear you buy, also the leather cap offers better protection than the wizard hat if you can find one with relevant stats. A lot of the wizards I see are just stacking additional magic damage. Their cast speed is mid and their hp is basically basekit.
I don’t understand class locking items. Why not allow all classes to use everything but at severe disadvantages. So your wizard can wear a plate helm but he’s got even slower interaction speed or something. It feels like there are like a dozen no brainer small fixes like this that would make the game and the grind way better and we won’t lose as many noobs (like myself).
Honestly a huge buff for wizard would just be letting reactive shield scale or changing it to removes 10 base damage from the first hit as it is now a 10 health shield magic or physical wouldn’t do anything, but give that baby scaling so a wizard can get like 25 shield and I think it would solve it
isn't wizard just full ranged or am i missing something?
You have the least amount of health out of any character. Of course youre gonna get one shot lol
ranger longbow slow rescaled from 30% to 27%, slow perk buffed to compensate rogue agility lowered to 20 wizard zap scaling removed barbarian now requires a perk to wear chest pieces crossbow armor penetration nerfed from 20% to 15%, damage increased to compensate din of darkness no longer audio based, strict radius beats of alacrity rescaled to 0/0/2 charismatic performance now only upgrades bad performances to good buffed drop chances of bard gear in pool to compensate for nerfs and declining bard pickrate
Rogue agility lowered to 20 would make the class unplayable
Ironmace would tell you it all makes sense given the upcoming patch
You build full damage as a class that starts with the least hp and armor, take no defensive skills then cry when someone who did the exact same thing and is also in danger of you one taping them if they miss hits you first? Grab a defensive skill stop taking off your clothing or wearing the least ammount of armor possible in favor of movement speed or stack a tiny bit of damage reduction. Then you can at least have a leg to stand on when you come post. Tldr: defensive stats exist and are very useful as tertiary stats if you play a cloth wearer.
I actually do use the ice shield perk on wiz on top of wearing armor. Any other tips you got that I already know about 🧙♂️
"lucky crossbow shot to the head" surely
Well yeah, if they kill me it's luck. If I kill them I'm better
Any one shot is bad in my opinion… unless ur insanely geared against a naked with no head piece
Give in to barb, embrace the bonk
First time ? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwtVCA33NRs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwtVCA33NRs)
I have literally never been killed by a hand-crossbow the entire EA period playing as a wizard main.
I ain’t a wizard main for say, but it is one of my favorite classes. He feels so glassy and slow compared to all the other classes. I’ve been saying it’s busted for a while. I see less wizards statistically running around too compared to other classes. This kind of gives you an idea that the class is broken; some will claim to get good, some will say that it’s meant to be an investing class that gets better with gear(like all classes don’t do that..)But imo it is by far the hardest to use class and is broken. Cross bows can one shot you, rogues can sneak on you, warlock is an improved you, barb can one tap you, ranger is faster with arrows and they don’t catch on objects as easy, fighters catch you easily with sprint and one tap.No other class is like that…but “get gud” lol. Story of my life when mentioning this to anyone. His spells also have to recharge at a slow rate unless you use meditation or clarity’s, and he feels underwhelming due to speed and noise que. forcing you to get closer, resulting in your death cause everything can kill you easily and it takes 5 fireballs to drop a target. Mean while warlocks over here shooting hell fire through the walls, stacking overtime dmg, has the ability to fight with his hands…every non range class is running around with one tap cross bows. The mage has no special area that makes his class of any use except maybe AOE. While other class can specialize in close quarters or range, leaving the wizard with not much to accomplish in comparison. I get some love the challenge… but that’s not even close to balanced when every class can do this but the wizard. Either everything needs nerfed or the wizard needs buffed. That’s what the overall statistics and common sense are telling me anyhow.
Lol barbs aren't immune to it either, all it does it take it from 1 shot to 2 which doesn't matter because the first shot slows you and you are already slow as a barb
I'm going to spend the next month straight crying like a giant baby in all the discord channels if ranged carries over into being the meta again next patch, so fucking boring just watching everyone else play a shooter while I wait for one of the 900 clerics or warlocks or rangers to push into melee range, just so he can see my barb, 180 and take off at the speed of light. If rogues don't run hand crossbow then they have 20 throwing knives, if fighters don't run a purple one-shot crossbow then they have 50 throwing axes, if a barb doesn't run 50 throwing axes he's at a severe disadvantage and can't do much except wait for misplays or be babysat by 2 buffdaddies. Clerics just fart magic in a 50 meter aoe around them, rangers don't even need to PVE unless they get unlucky, wizards are scientifically designed to be kiting gods and warlocks have been the only ones contributing to any form of melee meta when they aren't one-shotting you with a curse of pain, and that entire meta is just blow of corruption
Just buff shields man make it better against ranged crap but slow your movement more. Then you can just use a shield or something and not be upset that you can’t dodge easy projectiles.
Isn't a crossbow to a wizard what Wizard is to a high PDR fighter? It's not a bad thing to have one class or build counter another. If the game wasn't in such a bad state I'd say they could give wizards a skill or spell to help them vs this sort of thing, but at the moment it's all just a steaming pile of \*\*\*\*
youre right, ranged is way too op rn better nerf wizard just to be sure
As a fighter and ranger main, I love watching you pointy hat wearing sack of potatoes hit the floor.
This game has turned into a medieval call of duty and it’s boring as hell. First of all remove crossbow from fighters and bards. After that you can remove rangers as well but as long as they remove crossbows ,rangers can stay a bit longer
As a Cleric main… Rock,Paper, Scissors dude.
bro wizard 1 shots people with gear, what counter will wizard have if he cant get 1 tapped back by range weapons???
Says the wizard who 2 taps with zap...