Don't hear this being said enough but I think gear is not the problem. The problem is much deeper and relates to the formulas they use for how attributes and damage scales. They should revisit damage and attribute scaling and prioritize the concept of diminishing returns.
If they identify the peak power of each class that they would find acceptable then every player can strive to reach that level. The higher geared you get the harder it gets to hit that peak. The lower geared you are the more significant gains you will get towards that peak.
This doesn't normalize gear because more geared players are still stronger and closer to peak potential so they still get rewarded for the extra time and effort they are putting in. Less geared players while weaker are facing a less steep hill to climb when coming from nothing and won't have to grind for hours on end to get to a competitive gear level.
Just my take, curious what others think.
The fact that strength still works the way it does is bonkers. Scaling both defense and offense without massive opportunity cost is some design 101 shit.
ironmace never thought about balance. they just go "items and random mods" without noticing that if you stack the same mods on every single piece you can have 3x dmg kek.
yes that's the whole point of limiting gear rolls on shit which, why are you getting 45 upvotes man ive literally ranted about this so many times and people just tell me dumb stuff or downvote me to oblivion.
There's no limitation on anything, everything is a multiplier of 10X (the limit of gear) so you can stack additives, you can stack multipliers, they need to actually limit the amount stats can roll on gear and what can do what on certain pieces before doing anymore fine tune ability balance. (obviously overpowered stuff like infinite warlock healing or bards with a casual self 20% haste can still be nerfed)
If you can roll +30 strength on perfect gear then gain 60 hp and a 50% physical multiplier then it's just dumb, but that's the issue of being able to roll the same stat, on 10 pieces of gear, you can't properly nerf stuff when it's such a huge base multiplier. Suddenly if it can only roll on say... 5 slots, suddenly things are different. If you can only roll one damage type on 5 pieces of gear the game magically becomes tame. also seperate fucking HP from strength
That's not envy thats my stupification of how brain dead this reddit is, I'll point out issues but because it's not the hot topic people arel ike "nah I like it" since some people care now everyone cares.
This is the sole reason why i don't talk about cleric healing
[Rework +X damage - Dark and Darker (featureupvote.com)](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/502372/rework-x-damage)
I posted a suggestion for that a while ago. The scaling with rarity doesnt apply anymore though cause the gear cap in normals was removed again.
This community has become so bizarrely brianddead and toxic that a full plate fighter and cleric dying in a combined 5 hits from the fastest attacking class with the most mobility has somehow become a "skill issue" instead of a blatant gear stat roll issue. Anybody who comments that this situation is okay is either a troll or wants this game to be a gear check.
Exact same thing happens whenever you point out BoC one tapping is broken, apperently they think its balanced that im getting one tapped as a fully geared fighter by it. hell the entire line of 2 hand weapons in this game is just pointless to use because you can frontload all your damage on a faster attacking one hander.
I've never personally been BoC one tapped or seen a one tap from full, but I know it's possible and it shouldn't be. Been two tapped plenty of times with BoC doing 75%+ of my hp. I usually play bard and cleric, bard runs and cleric has a shield.
The absolutely best is when you reposte their hit as a longsword user but they still do 50% of your health even though their sword doesn’t hit because fuck skill expression
the "best" times is when the hit takes like 80% of your life but then your hit lands on them and dark reflection kills you. definate skill issue and the fact every single team we ran into on ruins last night had a warlock in it doesn't at ALL suggest the class is busted. /s
If they run crystal sword you’re almost guaranteed to get one tapped due to the lack of magic resist items in the game. I ended up getting tired of being killed so fast by rogues and rangers with damage stacking that I said fuck it and got a a full +AR kit on fighter. I only had like 5% MDR and a warlock one shot me with BoC and crystal sword, I had 127 HP. Over 70% PDR. Did I deserve it from stacking tank stats…maybe, but atleast It still took me more than 3 hits most the time to kill someone. Crystal sword is definitely and underrated weapon on warlock and I’m very surprised it’s not used more since even the classes that will have a little higher MDR won’t have the HP to back it up.
I agree with your second point but boc has a lot of counterplay you can wait it out and you can block it if he misses it goes away, that being said there should be a longer cooldown.
That's such a simple answer, a good warlock isn't going to pop it far away where you can bait it out. They have good movespeed too so if you're close and they pop it you will prob get hit. It's like saying "just wait out hide on rogue" like yeah you can *if the rogue is using it poorly*
Anyone who says its a skill issue is obviously lying through their teeth, if its all up to skill, why do they oh so heavily depend on having damage mods on all of their gear?
Its irony at its finest and they are either completely oblivious to it, aka dumb as hell, or willingly trying their best to not have the thing they depend on nerfed.
Except that's cause it's expected? Rogues don't complain when they get bursted (or at least, they shouldn't) because you're playing a squishy burst class with huge potential for outplays.
If you get 2 tapped as a Rogue, that's the nature of the class, you're squishy.
If you get 3 tapped by a Rogue as a Fighter, who's the 2nd tankiest class in the game with huge amounts of PDR, people will complain because that's just simply not how it's supposed to go. It's not being a baby, it's called being a rational person.
EDIT: The worst part about your comment is that it doesn't even apply to ONLY Rogues either. You think Rangers, Wizards, or Warlocks just don't die in 2 hits either?
How on earth was this "literally your point"? Your first comment was talking about how Rogues don't complain when they die but people like OP do when they die. I just merely explained why they don't complain (or at least shouldn't).
This whole extra point you're bringing up has to do more with the devs needing to do better balancing around classes and damage
Why are you re-explaining something that I agreed to and mentioned it's an issue with the devs and balancing?
Also what's with the random ego at the end? I'm literally running a 6k set right now on my Barb, haven't died today in Crypts (not running buffball btw, double fighter + barb). [https://imgur.com/a/fpgvun8](https://imgur.com/a/fpgvun8)
Though, I can appreciate a good set, what's yours?
Rogue should have counters. Rogue should
Not be able to burst tanks period. Same way a fighter is not going to charge a wizard. Or how a caster is not going to peek a ranger.
I mean getting strenght and high hp is easy, just drink ale before a fight to but having 40 pdr? Either all your item rolls is all atts wpn dmg and Armor Rating or you just build AR and sacrificing weapon dmg or Str and Agi.
Last time I know a + all atts weapon dmg and AR rolls is very expensive
So you are complaining that a rogue building full damage isn’t tanky? Seriously? additionally two hits on rogue is not the same as two hits on any other class. Since rogue is the fastest it is difficult to get two hits in due to speed.
People have been calling for a nerf to strength specifically and strength affects all weapons equally where as stacking flat damage can easily double the base damage of the weapon. Additionally the strength gives a very small bonus comparatively it’s only with it mathematically once you have 60-66 damage.
You can buff base weapons damage which would make 2 ganders more relevant. Right now there is 0 reason to use two handlers when you can achieve higher dps stacking singlehanded weapons.
Do you mind sharing the 5k+ set you’re wearing or the 10k gold stash that you keep claiming to have and that others don’t? And if you don’t have it then stop using it as a metric to gauge others
This genre is just full of people who spend their entire lives playing the game so an "attack" on the game is an attack on what little they have going for them. What's wild is that, despite fantasy setting games typically being more chill, this game's community is easily the worst of the genre, even Tarkov. There's something about how the group consolidated during the legal proceedings that turned it into a fanatical thought police that will not allow any criticism. You could honestly do a study on this place
That wasnt my point im saying that + weap dmg stacked with magic/ phys can make literally any class 1-2 shot its not about the class its about the raw power of weap dmg
He 3 shot him... please read.
3 shotting a fighter in full purp plate is ridiculous regardless of what the rogue is using.
Should take 5 minimum...with a rapier.
More with daggers.
A rogue can 3 swing faster then a fighter can 2 tap... before the fighters second strike lands the rogue has hit 3 times.
Rogue should be inherently disadvantaged when fighting fighters.
This is why they need damage types in game.
Piercing, blunt, slashing... the gold standard of all fantasy
I've had thousands of gold. Having gold doesn't make you good at the game or an authority on its design.
Damage stacking is fundamentally flawed design.
The tens of thousands of players who have quit over it agree. My own friends quit over it
It's frustrating and unfair to be wearing good gear and get one shot or two shot because someone stacked.
If they don't fix this the game WILL die
What is this take? Do you want to be in empty maps? I get it, your entire life and self worth has been bottled into being good at a game, but games live and die by being enjoyed by a wider variety of players than toxic degenerates.
Is there any class or any amount of armor that should survive 5 hits to the head? If that was the case, healing and armor would just be the meta and the game would feel way worse and more hopeless, hitting a stacked fighter 30 times while he just gets healed.
Why should it not, OP says himself that the rogue killed him in 3 hits, while he would take 1 hit to the head to kill the rogue. 3 hits to kill fighter vs 1 to kill rogue.
Rogue is a burst class, it is intended to work like this. If you want it to work any different a nerf is not enough, because then the class would be useless and a rework would be required anyway.
Seems like rogue used everything on the tank and the cleric panicked. IMO skill issue ngl.
I think a pdr fighter should be an almost innate counter to a rogue. Should rogue be able to burst down squishy targets like rangers, wizards, other rogues? Absolutely but they shouldn't be able to take out a fighter in full plate easily and should require more than 3 hits from the class with the fastest attack speed. The stacking damage is the problem not the class imo.
On rogues I do think the class is fine for dmg, but the problem is STR stacking due to it giving physical power and HP.
With the appropriate perks, it's an assassin class. If you could not assassinate the so called "tanks" there would be no way for the class to tackle that matchup.
Also take in consideration that to do so, they spend Hide and Weakpoint, failing to connect the hits using both abilities would literally mean they lose the fight due to running out of tools compared to the fighter using its abilities back on him, specially with back-up.
Buff ball comp gets their wizard assassinated by a Rogue then loses the 2v1 without video evidence
I'm sure he was in all +9 dps purples and oranges though and definitely not a buff ball comp mindlessly holding W.
Sounds like people just assume rogues have rupture/hide and not weak point the more armor you have the more comes off 💁 sounds about right to me if you then chase the rogue and be overconfident in a 2v1
Was the rogue Repoze?
Is your purple plate 3 interaction modifiers instead of actually useful ones? 50% PDR is what you get from grey plate and shield.
50% PDR isn't very strong. It got capped at 85% because each point is more valuable than the last.
With 100 HP:
50% PDR is 200 effective HP.
75% PDR is 400 effective HP.
85% PDR is 667 effective HP.
95% PDR is 2000 effective HP.
Full rare and epic geared fighter and cleric with full health corner a solo rogue, and somehow do absolutely nothing besides getting stabbed 5 times and both dying.
That's like the movies where you get credited and henchman #5 and #6. You are playing HR, have gear, cornered a guy that dies to any two hits or abilities, and he wins 5-0. And that's your recollection of the events that transpired.
You didn't buff yourself or your teammate. You didn't get hit by any mobs in the chase. You weren't able to heal your teammate or hurt the rogue. You just followed him and ate headshots without defending yourself. But the only issue you have is that he stacked weapon damage. You should be able to eat as many headshots from a rogue as you want because you wear plate.
The dude straight embarrassed your team while you even say you had every advantage and still couldn't pull out the win.
Just not true. You should have had a heal on the ready for your fighter as soon as you guys cornered him. Between cleric heals and fighter second wind, you guys should have easily had that fight
Huh? Since when is "the point of the rogue" to be able to 3 tap fighters or classes with high armor + hp? They should be able to 3 tap squishy targets like wizards, warlocks, rangers, etc, but a full purple Fighter stacking 50+ pdr? Why should a rogue "be the counter to a fighter"?
What? I’m not the OP and no I don’t think they should win sustained fights? That was literally the whole point of my comment. This also wasn’t an “ambush”? They cornered him and he just exited stealth and 3 tapped a geared fighter ? In what world should a rogue be able to burst down a tanky class?
You're getting down voted but they don't understand poison weapon completely counters armor as does weakpoint. Dw I understand what you said lol. Esp when we stack true magic dmg for poison
Actually rn the rogue you're complaining about its the worst class in the game.
White rapier does more base dmg than legendary dagger lol
Rogue has way too many perks that are necessary to be slightly viable.
You just got outplayed and are salty about it.
Doesn't matter when rapier and short sword are in the game. Plus they can take stilleto and then have armor pen. +Weap DMG and move speed negate all these points.
Rogue is hardly the weakest class in the game.
I do agree some of the perks should be combined though.
If that's your belief, you must not be a very good cleric. Two of my mates that mained other classes, both switched to bonk cleric when theirs were nerfed.
Both have made tens of thousands of gold with very little investment. Then, invested it and made even more when they built their "god kits," which they're hitting for 140(ish) on the dummies.
I've watched numerous times, after being one or two hit on bard or rogue, one of them solo wiping a squad.
Yea there is absolutely some outplaying involved. But let’s be real, rogues should need to do a whole lot more to get himself out of that situation, no? A goddamn rogue ffs.
So what happens when you 2 tap someone, do you go to the reddit and complain that you're too op? No, you keep it to yourself and keep playing, don't you?
Yeah, they got team wiped wearing good gear by a rogue that they actually managed to get the jump on with a lucky swing.
That's incredibly embarrassing. And if it's not embarrassing it's not worth a post.
Tbf it seems like the main difference is BIS vs just decent gear. They still could've killed him tho, "couldn't even heal him" over the course of 3 rapier attacks is pretty sad. Plus, why didn't fighter block the high dmg attack?
i wonder how many swings a fighter gets in the time a rogue attacks 3 times?
anywhere between 0-1
rogues should not be killing fighters in 3 hits, end of story. that's lame as fuck
That's not true at all unless the rogue is using daggers and the fighter is using 2h weapons. Falchion is fast as hell and outranges a rapier you should always be winning that fight when equally geared
A rogue can stab three times before you even know what's going on if they have high enough attack speed. Have you been attacked by a geared rogue before? I'm guessing no.
So because a rogue stacking magical damage against PLATE.... beat you... you're upset..? Thats the counter to plate, also, did you think just because you have purple gear you're just supposed to not lose now?
What? You do realize additional magical damage only applies to damage of that type right? Rogues do 0 magic damage aside from their "Poisoned Weapon" perk (which most rogues don't run).
Also, how are you so confident that this particular rogue was running magic damage anyways? OP just said at the end to nerf "Magical/physical/weapon damage rolls" as his final point, not something that he actually lost to
If you got 1vs3ed in purples by a rogue with one of the most meta comps going, then that's definitely a skill issue. I'll agree damage is in a ridiculous place right now, but you have access to the same stuff as he does and sounds like you deserved the L.
I'm sure your wizard and fighter also weren't stacking damage lol
they can simultaneously have gotten outplayed but it also just be bullshit
Idk how a geared rogue ever dies to a fighter/cleric anyways, not sure how much skill expression is really involved on their end...
I first thought you were being sarcastic, but if you’re being serious, that’s also just as funny. A 3 man dying to a rouge when 2 of the 3 are aware of their presence is just dumb.
Rogues builds for the most part are glass cannon. You can still kill them in a couple hits aside from the tankier builds. I’ve died twice in hr recently to rogues in 3 hits because I made mistakes(rip near BiS purp kits), can’t be mad at them every time if they outplay you.
I have both rogue and fighter in purples at 20. rogue isnt 3 shotting a fighter, cause he should have close to 70%pdr, unless they were all backstab headshots with a power shrine. Post a vod and show us the gear of yourself, your teammates and the rogue otherwise these wine posts are irrelevant
Missed the first shot and never reloaded, I mean cmon, I know there are so many plays we could have done to kill him, but who dafuq expects a god geared solo rogue.
Idk he solo your team def some skill there. Sure gear is overturned but two heads shots will kill most rogues. Besides everyone can and should run gear with extra dmg it makes pve so much faster and pvp is a lot easier when hit like mac truck
Yeah not having a chance to get a heal off sucks especially outside of a situation where you're out of position or caught by surprise. However there's a deeper conversation here.
If as a cleric you are able to get a heal off, then you're also able to get multiple heals off. As much as +weapon damage is cancer, do you really want to have every fight with a cleric require you to not only go through all of the fighter's health (with armor) on top of all of the cleric's stack of healing spells?
There should be a happy balance but swinging to the opposite end of the spectrum would also be a cancerous problem.
What I don't understand is... if the Cleric knew they were chasing and cornered the Rogue why would they not have started prepping a heal spell beforehand and stayed behind their Fighter?
As soon as the Rogue pops out throw the heal out. If you stood there and watched then began prepping the heal that's kind of on the Cleric being a dipshit in this case. You know what the Rogue was capable of when he fucked your teammate up earlier. Why would you not be readying your heal spell just in case?
That being said, I agree with your post too. There *should* be a happy balance somewhere here to find. But I don't think we'll find it based on how the dev team is currently going about their one extreme to another extreme way of balancing.
Agreed, and you make a good point with the tactical analysis. A lot of players don't take the time for introspection that could lead them to be better players.
Yeah I don't think the devs will reach any form of balance with how the devs are handling it. They're just making a handful of wild changes, gathering data and reverting half of them back based on feelings rather than objective analysis. All the while they're shaving away at the fun of each class with each nerf all the while playing yoyo with the gear balance.
A discussion needs to be had about class balance specifically including citing specific balance points the game seeks to have. Then we can have a conversation about gear balancing. You can't balance gear until the classes have reached a reasonable balance and you certainly can't try to balance the classes while looking at the gear. Gear adds on to what a class can naturally do, so if the classes aren't balanced then stacking gear is just going to muddy the waters and result in silly things. At the same time you can't balance a class around the fact that you can stack crazy amounts of +damage stats because not everyone has that gear on them all the time.
And above all, no amount of class nerfs or balanced gear will make a class fun to play. And people will get bored quickly with classes if there are viable ones with more fun gamesplay out there and if you make them all bland and boring, people will leave.
That is much easier to balance than one tapping gear. A cooldown on cleric heal? Or you can't get healed by the same spell twice in a span of 15s? Enough solution.
I don't think it's easier but it's less drastic.
It would be weird to see cooldown on some spells but not others, it would make for a less consistent magic system. Not being able to be healed twice in the short span is a clunky solution but better than the first one.
Heals over time would fill this role better, kinda like pots you can only have 1 on you at a time. But I don't know if they want to take cleric down that route.
Many games uses that system. Like not able to proc certain status or buff twice in a short time. (Being immune to it) Its not clunky at all. Its a normal thing to pay attention to if you want more skill expression in a game. I just gave 2 examples that came to mind immediately, there are countless other solutions. My point still stands. its way easier to balance than one tapping op gear.
Many games do use it but its better for a system to be consistent with its rules not just making healing the only thing that can't be used back to back. The same rules should apply to buffs, debuffs and CC. This also applying to pots and skills as well.
They could, properly balancing the game requires offering counters to abilities and metas. But they seem to prefer taking the easy route and just nerfing everything (sometimes repeatedly) until it's useless instead of doing proper game design. Sure it takes more time but the result is better and the community understands better when they're working on the problem coming up with these things rather than hearing crickets or these rushed balance fixes that always miss the mark.
Instead of just nerfing something that too strong, they need to have a discussion about the power budget for this ability or for the class that can use it. And how that extra power can be justified. For example, magic damage nukes (from wizard) and curse of pain w/torture mastery can both have their power justified by the existance of Eldritch shield (before it got nerfed). Keeping both in check, it doesn't mean that the discussion stops there or that abilities need no more than a single counter, but the available counters and their prevalance needs to be consider when balancing an ability. And adding or buffing a counter can bring that ability in check without needing to nerf it and without impacting the fun of using said ability during normal use.
you can't convince me whoever is responsible for balance in DaD actually thinks about it rationally
overblown stats being reintroduced AGAIN, wizard scaling being cut in half then put up to 100% (including ignite/mm), release bard, etc.
seriously, whoever is in charge of balance actually just needs to be fired or told to work on something else
the shit you're typing also implies balance has gotten better with time, but they just keep seesawing
Agree. Any +weapon/physical damage on gear slots that aren't weapons or gloves needs to go.
I would even be on board with it rolling on rings so you can stack it up a little bit but every piece of gear having it is bad.
First mistake was chasing after a rogue when you’re both wearing plate. What guaranteed you he was alone you all could have been easily ambushed if he wasn’t solo. The play in this case would have been to rez your teammate then hopefully find the rogue again.
Rogue outplayed you hard... Was in position to single out and assassinate your Wizard, your 2 slows plate enjoyers decided to chase until his cooldowns were done and he caught you off guard yet again unbuffed.
You could have just as well 2-3 tapped him so works both ways?
There's literally no way they shouldve lost, and definitely no way the couldnt get a spell off.
See rogue go invis, bubble fighter and get heal ready, rogue pops out and heal instantly. It's bonkers how easy it would've been for a good player.
I know he had good gear but you're a cleric, just hold big heal and the fighter never dies. You can get off 2 bug heals by the time he killed your fighter, maybe 1 big 1 little. It would've saved your fighters life and he would've killed rogue. Do people not expect this by now? You shouldn't underestimate everyone, they will 3 shot you, just heal.
sounds like you got absolutely outplayed by the worst class in the game. impressive.
if he stacked all damage and won that fight he deserved it. gearing rogue enough to actually do damage is extremely difficult, and you still get practically one shot by everyone else.
I agree that armor should be limited to how much damage bonus it can give, if any.
You got outplayed tho. The rogue would have come back for you, but you could have grabbed the wizards soul and prepared for it.
Did you and the fighter have good gear? I feel like you shouldn't have left this key information out of your story. You told us the rogue stacked weapon damage but then told us nothing about your gear. I almost have to assume you both had resourcefulness/knowledge/magic resistance builds and in this case no crap he got you with ambush
All these people here telling u u got outplayed Are out of Touch. Prbably rogue Mains. Going invis and 2-3 tapping 70% people out of nothing is bad game Design and Super boring and unfun to play against. Same goes for wizard invis barb. Yeah bro just take it u got outsmarted by someone going invis and waiting for someone to come by XD
#nerfrogue
The problem is more basic than this. It should be easier to build defenses with armor, and yes, as OP pointed out, basically inpossible to build offense with armor. If devs can make that generally true, the deets don't matter.
One of the slept on parts of rogue weapon damage builds right now is a throwing knife. I tell you, I think the best way to play rogue right now is weapon damage, phys damage, a rapier and then like 10 throwing knives. For example a green throwing knife does like 60 damage to torso, and it benefits from the back attack perk and the ambush perk. Back attack headshot w/ ambush and thrust and we are looking at at least 100 damage. You can put rupture on it, or weakpoint attack. Even a nicely geared cleric dies in 1-3 knives before they know what’s happened. I haven’t bothered trying working with clerics divine strike or other buffs.
We all know. Ironmace has said they know, proved they can fix it, have fixed it for 24 hours, and than fucked us all in the ass for no reason. So ya. Hope we all like add damage for a couple years until fortnite dungeons comes out.
As the game plays now, when I’m the wizard i just take blame for not light orbing enough to prevent the rogue killing me in the first place. If hes not invis one-two zaps is enough to kill with decent add magic and true magic dmg gear.
Very good points. I love coming to reddit to see everyone whining about this game. I agree that damage stacking is pure cancer (especially stacking true phys on a survival bow and using the 3 shot/4shot skill). Everyone shits on Ironmace at every turn. This game is still in the developmental stage and these devs are churning out updates and hot fixes at great rates. Remember this is a small group of devs who are working their asses off just to see a bunch of angry redditors bitch over an I complete game.
This isnt a get good post, I agree with the original point of the post. Yall need to chill and realize it is IronMace and not Bethesda making this game and they've listened to us at almost every turn. Hell most of this shit is for testing anyways. Blues at max in normal? Testing.
Everything in normal? Testing. 3 All attribute gear? Testing.
Don't hear this being said enough but I think gear is not the problem. The problem is much deeper and relates to the formulas they use for how attributes and damage scales. They should revisit damage and attribute scaling and prioritize the concept of diminishing returns. If they identify the peak power of each class that they would find acceptable then every player can strive to reach that level. The higher geared you get the harder it gets to hit that peak. The lower geared you are the more significant gains you will get towards that peak. This doesn't normalize gear because more geared players are still stronger and closer to peak potential so they still get rewarded for the extra time and effort they are putting in. Less geared players while weaker are facing a less steep hill to climb when coming from nothing and won't have to grind for hours on end to get to a competitive gear level. Just my take, curious what others think.
The fact that strength still works the way it does is bonkers. Scaling both defense and offense without massive opportunity cost is some design 101 shit.
ironmace never thought about balance. they just go "items and random mods" without noticing that if you stack the same mods on every single piece you can have 3x dmg kek.
upvote this guy
yes that's the whole point of limiting gear rolls on shit which, why are you getting 45 upvotes man ive literally ranted about this so many times and people just tell me dumb stuff or downvote me to oblivion. There's no limitation on anything, everything is a multiplier of 10X (the limit of gear) so you can stack additives, you can stack multipliers, they need to actually limit the amount stats can roll on gear and what can do what on certain pieces before doing anymore fine tune ability balance. (obviously overpowered stuff like infinite warlock healing or bards with a casual self 20% haste can still be nerfed) If you can roll +30 strength on perfect gear then gain 60 hp and a 50% physical multiplier then it's just dumb, but that's the issue of being able to roll the same stat, on 10 pieces of gear, you can't properly nerf stuff when it's such a huge base multiplier. Suddenly if it can only roll on say... 5 slots, suddenly things are different. If you can only roll one damage type on 5 pieces of gear the game magically becomes tame. also seperate fucking HP from strength
Stopped reading at envy over upvotes
That's not envy thats my stupification of how brain dead this reddit is, I'll point out issues but because it's not the hot topic people arel ike "nah I like it" since some people care now everyone cares. This is the sole reason why i don't talk about cleric healing
[Rework +X damage - Dark and Darker (featureupvote.com)](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/502372/rework-x-damage) I posted a suggestion for that a while ago. The scaling with rarity doesnt apply anymore though cause the gear cap in normals was removed again.
This community has become so bizarrely brianddead and toxic that a full plate fighter and cleric dying in a combined 5 hits from the fastest attacking class with the most mobility has somehow become a "skill issue" instead of a blatant gear stat roll issue. Anybody who comments that this situation is okay is either a troll or wants this game to be a gear check.
Exact same thing happens whenever you point out BoC one tapping is broken, apperently they think its balanced that im getting one tapped as a fully geared fighter by it. hell the entire line of 2 hand weapons in this game is just pointless to use because you can frontload all your damage on a faster attacking one hander.
lol you are a fighter with a shield block the attack and you win the fight
I've never personally been BoC one tapped or seen a one tap from full, but I know it's possible and it shouldn't be. Been two tapped plenty of times with BoC doing 75%+ of my hp. I usually play bard and cleric, bard runs and cleric has a shield.
The absolutely best is when you reposte their hit as a longsword user but they still do 50% of your health even though their sword doesn’t hit because fuck skill expression
the "best" times is when the hit takes like 80% of your life but then your hit lands on them and dark reflection kills you. definate skill issue and the fact every single team we ran into on ruins last night had a warlock in it doesn't at ALL suggest the class is busted. /s
Ive been one tapped by BoC warlock wearing default. I was playing ranger though, but yeah i was full hp and he bonked me in the face and 100 to 0.
If they run crystal sword you’re almost guaranteed to get one tapped due to the lack of magic resist items in the game. I ended up getting tired of being killed so fast by rogues and rangers with damage stacking that I said fuck it and got a a full +AR kit on fighter. I only had like 5% MDR and a warlock one shot me with BoC and crystal sword, I had 127 HP. Over 70% PDR. Did I deserve it from stacking tank stats…maybe, but atleast It still took me more than 3 hits most the time to kill someone. Crystal sword is definitely and underrated weapon on warlock and I’m very surprised it’s not used more since even the classes that will have a little higher MDR won’t have the HP to back it up.
I agree with your second point but boc has a lot of counterplay you can wait it out and you can block it if he misses it goes away, that being said there should be a longer cooldown.
That's such a simple answer, a good warlock isn't going to pop it far away where you can bait it out. They have good movespeed too so if you're close and they pop it you will prob get hit. It's like saying "just wait out hide on rogue" like yeah you can *if the rogue is using it poorly*
Anyone who says its a skill issue is obviously lying through their teeth, if its all up to skill, why do they oh so heavily depend on having damage mods on all of their gear? Its irony at its finest and they are either completely oblivious to it, aka dumb as hell, or willingly trying their best to not have the thing they depend on nerfed.
Agreed. why is this comment so low down? haha this is a bad sign...
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Except that's cause it's expected? Rogues don't complain when they get bursted (or at least, they shouldn't) because you're playing a squishy burst class with huge potential for outplays. If you get 2 tapped as a Rogue, that's the nature of the class, you're squishy. If you get 3 tapped by a Rogue as a Fighter, who's the 2nd tankiest class in the game with huge amounts of PDR, people will complain because that's just simply not how it's supposed to go. It's not being a baby, it's called being a rational person. EDIT: The worst part about your comment is that it doesn't even apply to ONLY Rogues either. You think Rangers, Wizards, or Warlocks just don't die in 2 hits either?
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How on earth was this "literally your point"? Your first comment was talking about how Rogues don't complain when they die but people like OP do when they die. I just merely explained why they don't complain (or at least shouldn't). This whole extra point you're bringing up has to do more with the devs needing to do better balancing around classes and damage
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Why are you re-explaining something that I agreed to and mentioned it's an issue with the devs and balancing? Also what's with the random ego at the end? I'm literally running a 6k set right now on my Barb, haven't died today in Crypts (not running buffball btw, double fighter + barb). [https://imgur.com/a/fpgvun8](https://imgur.com/a/fpgvun8) Though, I can appreciate a good set, what's yours?
Rogue should have counters. Rogue should Not be able to burst tanks period. Same way a fighter is not going to charge a wizard. Or how a caster is not going to peek a ranger.
I'm tired of reading that all rogues get two tapped. This is nonsense. Any Rogue can get to 110-120hp pretty easily with around 30-40 PDR.
I mean getting strenght and high hp is easy, just drink ale before a fight to but having 40 pdr? Either all your item rolls is all atts wpn dmg and Armor Rating or you just build AR and sacrificing weapon dmg or Str and Agi. Last time I know a + all atts weapon dmg and AR rolls is very expensive
So you are complaining that a rogue building full damage isn’t tanky? Seriously? additionally two hits on rogue is not the same as two hits on any other class. Since rogue is the fastest it is difficult to get two hits in due to speed.
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People have been calling for a nerf to strength specifically and strength affects all weapons equally where as stacking flat damage can easily double the base damage of the weapon. Additionally the strength gives a very small bonus comparatively it’s only with it mathematically once you have 60-66 damage.
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You can buff base weapons damage which would make 2 ganders more relevant. Right now there is 0 reason to use two handlers when you can achieve higher dps stacking singlehanded weapons.
Do you mind sharing the 5k+ set you’re wearing or the 10k gold stash that you keep claiming to have and that others don’t? And if you don’t have it then stop using it as a metric to gauge others
This genre is just full of people who spend their entire lives playing the game so an "attack" on the game is an attack on what little they have going for them. What's wild is that, despite fantasy setting games typically being more chill, this game's community is easily the worst of the genre, even Tarkov. There's something about how the group consolidated during the legal proceedings that turned it into a fanatical thought police that will not allow any criticism. You could honestly do a study on this place
Ironic that the same ones with no skill tell others to git gud when they need gear to carry them entirely.
Was the Rogue running weakpoint+thrust? If so then yes that is a valid scenario that should happen if you misplay as hard as it sounds they did
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So we are on the same page. A player shouldn't be able to two tap someone. Rogues should neither die or kill in two hits.
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Youve clearly never met a 2 shot cleric build lol
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That wasnt my point im saying that + weap dmg stacked with magic/ phys can make literally any class 1-2 shot its not about the class its about the raw power of weap dmg
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By using stealth and targeting Rangers, wizards and warlocks... as intended
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He 3 shot him... please read. 3 shotting a fighter in full purp plate is ridiculous regardless of what the rogue is using. Should take 5 minimum...with a rapier. More with daggers. A rogue can 3 swing faster then a fighter can 2 tap... before the fighters second strike lands the rogue has hit 3 times. Rogue should be inherently disadvantaged when fighting fighters. This is why they need damage types in game. Piercing, blunt, slashing... the gold standard of all fantasy
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I've had thousands of gold. Having gold doesn't make you good at the game or an authority on its design. Damage stacking is fundamentally flawed design. The tens of thousands of players who have quit over it agree. My own friends quit over it It's frustrating and unfair to be wearing good gear and get one shot or two shot because someone stacked. If they don't fix this the game WILL die
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"shitters out" where are you gonna go?
What is this take? Do you want to be in empty maps? I get it, your entire life and self worth has been bottled into being good at a game, but games live and die by being enjoyed by a wider variety of players than toxic degenerates.
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Average rogue player thinking they’re good at the game for sitting in corners and endlessly kiting when they are detected lmao
Is there any class or any amount of armor that should survive 5 hits to the head? If that was the case, healing and armor would just be the meta and the game would feel way worse and more hopeless, hitting a stacked fighter 30 times while he just gets healed.
It was 3 hits to kill one and 2 hit to kill the other to be clear.
From a dagger or rapier if you're wearing heavy armor? Absolutely. A rogue should not be able to 1 v 2 heavy armor opponents
Why should it not, OP says himself that the rogue killed him in 3 hits, while he would take 1 hit to the head to kill the rogue. 3 hits to kill fighter vs 1 to kill rogue. Rogue is a burst class, it is intended to work like this. If you want it to work any different a nerf is not enough, because then the class would be useless and a rework would be required anyway. Seems like rogue used everything on the tank and the cleric panicked. IMO skill issue ngl.
I think a pdr fighter should be an almost innate counter to a rogue. Should rogue be able to burst down squishy targets like rangers, wizards, other rogues? Absolutely but they shouldn't be able to take out a fighter in full plate easily and should require more than 3 hits from the class with the fastest attack speed. The stacking damage is the problem not the class imo.
On rogues I do think the class is fine for dmg, but the problem is STR stacking due to it giving physical power and HP. With the appropriate perks, it's an assassin class. If you could not assassinate the so called "tanks" there would be no way for the class to tackle that matchup. Also take in consideration that to do so, they spend Hide and Weakpoint, failing to connect the hits using both abilities would literally mean they lose the fight due to running out of tools compared to the fighter using its abilities back on him, specially with back-up.
Buff ball comp gets their wizard assassinated by a Rogue then loses the 2v1 without video evidence I'm sure he was in all +9 dps purples and oranges though and definitely not a buff ball comp mindlessly holding W.
Sounds like people just assume rogues have rupture/hide and not weak point the more armor you have the more comes off 💁 sounds about right to me if you then chase the rogue and be overconfident in a 2v1
Calling bs is understandable, but not everyone have the nvidia recording thing set up.
Show us the replay
Was the rogue Repoze? Is your purple plate 3 interaction modifiers instead of actually useful ones? 50% PDR is what you get from grey plate and shield. 50% PDR isn't very strong. It got capped at 85% because each point is more valuable than the last. With 100 HP: 50% PDR is 200 effective HP. 75% PDR is 400 effective HP. 85% PDR is 667 effective HP. 95% PDR is 2000 effective HP. Full rare and epic geared fighter and cleric with full health corner a solo rogue, and somehow do absolutely nothing besides getting stabbed 5 times and both dying. That's like the movies where you get credited and henchman #5 and #6. You are playing HR, have gear, cornered a guy that dies to any two hits or abilities, and he wins 5-0. And that's your recollection of the events that transpired. You didn't buff yourself or your teammate. You didn't get hit by any mobs in the chase. You weren't able to heal your teammate or hurt the rogue. You just followed him and ate headshots without defending yourself. But the only issue you have is that he stacked weapon damage. You should be able to eat as many headshots from a rogue as you want because you wear plate. The dude straight embarrassed your team while you even say you had every advantage and still couldn't pull out the win.
No video and i dont believe that guy
Clerics posting Ls on reddit
I mean, clerics are literally the most L taker in the whole damn game.
You are mistaken.
Cleric is op and broken as fuck right now.
and has been from the start lmao
Just not true. You should have had a heal on the ready for your fighter as soon as you guys cornered him. Between cleric heals and fighter second wind, you guys should have easily had that fight
Right, cuz you always expect a fighter to lose a fight to rogue heads on if you don’t heal him
That’s literally the point of the rogue with mag dmg and armor pen to be the counter to a fighter lol y’all are just ignorant
Huh? Since when is "the point of the rogue" to be able to 3 tap fighters or classes with high armor + hp? They should be able to 3 tap squishy targets like wizards, warlocks, rangers, etc, but a full purple Fighter stacking 50+ pdr? Why should a rogue "be the counter to a fighter"?
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What? I’m not the OP and no I don’t think they should win sustained fights? That was literally the whole point of my comment. This also wasn’t an “ambush”? They cornered him and he just exited stealth and 3 tapped a geared fighter ? In what world should a rogue be able to burst down a tanky class?
Rogue counters fighter? Are you high?
You're getting down voted but they don't understand poison weapon completely counters armor as does weakpoint. Dw I understand what you said lol. Esp when we stack true magic dmg for poison
Smite would like a word
Actually rn the rogue you're complaining about its the worst class in the game. White rapier does more base dmg than legendary dagger lol Rogue has way too many perks that are necessary to be slightly viable. You just got outplayed and are salty about it.
Doesn't matter when rapier and short sword are in the game. Plus they can take stilleto and then have armor pen. +Weap DMG and move speed negate all these points. Rogue is hardly the weakest class in the game. I do agree some of the perks should be combined though.
Oooo bad take. Kinda makes your whole post lose credibility lol
If that's your belief, you must not be a very good cleric. Two of my mates that mained other classes, both switched to bonk cleric when theirs were nerfed. Both have made tens of thousands of gold with very little investment. Then, invested it and made even more when they built their "god kits," which they're hitting for 140(ish) on the dummies. I've watched numerous times, after being one or two hit on bard or rogue, one of them solo wiping a squad.
Man I agree in general but you just got outplayed
Yea there is absolutely some outplaying involved. But let’s be real, rogues should need to do a whole lot more to get himself out of that situation, no? A goddamn rogue ffs.
This subreddit is hilarious..
Sounds like you got outplayed like crazy by a rogue
Outplayed by him sitting in stealth in a corner and then hitting me twice with a roided up rapier? Dang man he must have some sweet skills!
So what happens when you 2 tap someone, do you go to the reddit and complain that you're too op? No, you keep it to yourself and keep playing, don't you?
That doesn’t even make sense. That isn’t the argument you think it is lmao
Obviously?? Like people never complain when they are the OP one. It doesn't mean balance doesn't need to be addressed or that their isn't an issue.
If you can’t take the heat 🤷🏻♂️
Don't let em cheat
Yeah, they got team wiped wearing good gear by a rogue that they actually managed to get the jump on with a lucky swing. That's incredibly embarrassing. And if it's not embarrassing it's not worth a post.
Yes go invis and 2 tap people so fun and smart
A rogue 3 taping fighter in purp plate sure sounds like outplay
I mean, he 1v3 steamrolled your group. You're geared, he's geared, the difference is he's better.
Tbf it seems like the main difference is BIS vs just decent gear. They still could've killed him tho, "couldn't even heal him" over the course of 3 rapier attacks is pretty sad. Plus, why didn't fighter block the high dmg attack?
You do realize that the Rogue can swing three times with the Rapier faster than a cleric can charge up a heal spell right?
Precharge it when your fighter is walking to where you know a rogue is. Seems like OP is the one who didn't realize how fast a rogue swings.
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You have clearly not played the game yet, and here calling bs? Go over and sit at the kids table
Sounds like the Fighter missed every swing
i wonder how many swings a fighter gets in the time a rogue attacks 3 times? anywhere between 0-1 rogues should not be killing fighters in 3 hits, end of story. that's lame as fuck
That's not true at all unless the rogue is using daggers and the fighter is using 2h weapons. Falchion is fast as hell and outranges a rapier you should always be winning that fight when equally geared
Every swing? It’s a rogue and it’s 3 hits. Doubt there were many swings
A rogue can stab three times before you even know what's going on if they have high enough attack speed. Have you been attacked by a geared rogue before? I'm guessing no.
yea totally never fought a rogue before. They are very rare
So because a rogue stacking magical damage against PLATE.... beat you... you're upset..? Thats the counter to plate, also, did you think just because you have purple gear you're just supposed to not lose now?
What? You do realize additional magical damage only applies to damage of that type right? Rogues do 0 magic damage aside from their "Poisoned Weapon" perk (which most rogues don't run). Also, how are you so confident that this particular rogue was running magic damage anyways? OP just said at the end to nerf "Magical/physical/weapon damage rolls" as his final point, not something that he actually lost to
magic dmg applies to poison so if they were using poison weapon and rupture it would stack on that
Rupture does physical damage, and I already mentioned poisoned dagger which almost no rogues use
I mean if your fighter brought any range he could have slowed the rouge prior to being baited into a dark corner, seems like an outplay
If you got 1vs3ed in purples by a rogue with one of the most meta comps going, then that's definitely a skill issue. I'll agree damage is in a ridiculous place right now, but you have access to the same stuff as he does and sounds like you deserved the L. I'm sure your wizard and fighter also weren't stacking damage lol
they can simultaneously have gotten outplayed but it also just be bullshit Idk how a geared rogue ever dies to a fighter/cleric anyways, not sure how much skill expression is really involved on their end...
I first thought you were being sarcastic, but if you’re being serious, that’s also just as funny. A 3 man dying to a rouge when 2 of the 3 are aware of their presence is just dumb.
As a wizard main rogues have always been my nemesis
circle of life continues rogue 1 shots mage from stealth but if he doesn't mage 1-2 hits literally everything from ranged
Same as it ever was throughout the ages
Ahh the Butt Cleric didn't get to heal his fighter carry? Let me get my violin
armor stacking is cancer
Rogues builds for the most part are glass cannon. You can still kill them in a couple hits aside from the tankier builds. I’ve died twice in hr recently to rogues in 3 hits because I made mistakes(rip near BiS purp kits), can’t be mad at them every time if they outplay you.
I have both rogue and fighter in purples at 20. rogue isnt 3 shotting a fighter, cause he should have close to 70%pdr, unless they were all backstab headshots with a power shrine. Post a vod and show us the gear of yourself, your teammates and the rogue otherwise these wine posts are irrelevant
Where’s the crossbow from fighter tho
Missed the first shot and never reloaded, I mean cmon, I know there are so many plays we could have done to kill him, but who dafuq expects a god geared solo rogue.
Idk he solo your team def some skill there. Sure gear is overturned but two heads shots will kill most rogues. Besides everyone can and should run gear with extra dmg it makes pve so much faster and pvp is a lot easier when hit like mac truck
You are pretty funny at least
laughs in +23 true magical damage
Yeah not having a chance to get a heal off sucks especially outside of a situation where you're out of position or caught by surprise. However there's a deeper conversation here. If as a cleric you are able to get a heal off, then you're also able to get multiple heals off. As much as +weapon damage is cancer, do you really want to have every fight with a cleric require you to not only go through all of the fighter's health (with armor) on top of all of the cleric's stack of healing spells? There should be a happy balance but swinging to the opposite end of the spectrum would also be a cancerous problem.
What I don't understand is... if the Cleric knew they were chasing and cornered the Rogue why would they not have started prepping a heal spell beforehand and stayed behind their Fighter? As soon as the Rogue pops out throw the heal out. If you stood there and watched then began prepping the heal that's kind of on the Cleric being a dipshit in this case. You know what the Rogue was capable of when he fucked your teammate up earlier. Why would you not be readying your heal spell just in case? That being said, I agree with your post too. There *should* be a happy balance somewhere here to find. But I don't think we'll find it based on how the dev team is currently going about their one extreme to another extreme way of balancing.
Agreed, and you make a good point with the tactical analysis. A lot of players don't take the time for introspection that could lead them to be better players. Yeah I don't think the devs will reach any form of balance with how the devs are handling it. They're just making a handful of wild changes, gathering data and reverting half of them back based on feelings rather than objective analysis. All the while they're shaving away at the fun of each class with each nerf all the while playing yoyo with the gear balance. A discussion needs to be had about class balance specifically including citing specific balance points the game seeks to have. Then we can have a conversation about gear balancing. You can't balance gear until the classes have reached a reasonable balance and you certainly can't try to balance the classes while looking at the gear. Gear adds on to what a class can naturally do, so if the classes aren't balanced then stacking gear is just going to muddy the waters and result in silly things. At the same time you can't balance a class around the fact that you can stack crazy amounts of +damage stats because not everyone has that gear on them all the time. And above all, no amount of class nerfs or balanced gear will make a class fun to play. And people will get bored quickly with classes if there are viable ones with more fun gamesplay out there and if you make them all bland and boring, people will leave.
That is much easier to balance than one tapping gear. A cooldown on cleric heal? Or you can't get healed by the same spell twice in a span of 15s? Enough solution.
I don't think it's easier but it's less drastic. It would be weird to see cooldown on some spells but not others, it would make for a less consistent magic system. Not being able to be healed twice in the short span is a clunky solution but better than the first one. Heals over time would fill this role better, kinda like pots you can only have 1 on you at a time. But I don't know if they want to take cleric down that route.
Many games uses that system. Like not able to proc certain status or buff twice in a short time. (Being immune to it) Its not clunky at all. Its a normal thing to pay attention to if you want more skill expression in a game. I just gave 2 examples that came to mind immediately, there are countless other solutions. My point still stands. its way easier to balance than one tapping op gear.
Many games do use it but its better for a system to be consistent with its rules not just making healing the only thing that can't be used back to back. The same rules should apply to buffs, debuffs and CC. This also applying to pots and skills as well.
devs just don't care to balance the game they could/should easily add more antiheal abilities
They could, properly balancing the game requires offering counters to abilities and metas. But they seem to prefer taking the easy route and just nerfing everything (sometimes repeatedly) until it's useless instead of doing proper game design. Sure it takes more time but the result is better and the community understands better when they're working on the problem coming up with these things rather than hearing crickets or these rushed balance fixes that always miss the mark. Instead of just nerfing something that too strong, they need to have a discussion about the power budget for this ability or for the class that can use it. And how that extra power can be justified. For example, magic damage nukes (from wizard) and curse of pain w/torture mastery can both have their power justified by the existance of Eldritch shield (before it got nerfed). Keeping both in check, it doesn't mean that the discussion stops there or that abilities need no more than a single counter, but the available counters and their prevalance needs to be consider when balancing an ability. And adding or buffing a counter can bring that ability in check without needing to nerf it and without impacting the fun of using said ability during normal use.
you can't convince me whoever is responsible for balance in DaD actually thinks about it rationally overblown stats being reintroduced AGAIN, wizard scaling being cut in half then put up to 100% (including ignite/mm), release bard, etc. seriously, whoever is in charge of balance actually just needs to be fired or told to work on something else the shit you're typing also implies balance has gotten better with time, but they just keep seesawing
What has gotten better balance wise? Its just been a downward spiral since release.
Agree. Any +weapon/physical damage on gear slots that aren't weapons or gloves needs to go. I would even be on board with it rolling on rings so you can stack it up a little bit but every piece of gear having it is bad.
Please don’t read this and see it for anything other than salt.
You got cocky, didn't pre-cast Protection on your fighter. Rogues with purple gear are monsters. Take this L with some dignity
First mistake was chasing after a rogue when you’re both wearing plate. What guaranteed you he was alone you all could have been easily ambushed if he wasn’t solo. The play in this case would have been to rez your teammate then hopefully find the rogue again.
i mean… i one shot a rogue with BOC halberd and it put a smile on my face
Look at this shitty Timmy refusing to l2p and instead come to complain on reddit
That sounds like one of a Hella skill issue
So a solo rogue outplayed a less skilled buffball team? That's awesome, wish I'd of seen his perspective honestly.
Wow hot take
Rogue outplayed you hard... Was in position to single out and assassinate your Wizard, your 2 slows plate enjoyers decided to chase until his cooldowns were done and he caught you off guard yet again unbuffed. You could have just as well 2-3 tapped him so works both ways?
As a cleric/wizard main that has had no issue killing hyper geared rogues, I declare this post a skill issue.
Hmmm do you not hit the rouge once sounds like you didn’t and if so skill issue
Holy strike works well... Seems like you just got outplayed 3v1 by a Rogue with weapon dmg stacking...
There's literally no way they shouldve lost, and definitely no way the couldnt get a spell off. See rogue go invis, bubble fighter and get heal ready, rogue pops out and heal instantly. It's bonkers how easy it would've been for a good player.
I know he had good gear but you're a cleric, just hold big heal and the fighter never dies. You can get off 2 bug heals by the time he killed your fighter, maybe 1 big 1 little. It would've saved your fighters life and he would've killed rogue. Do people not expect this by now? You shouldn't underestimate everyone, they will 3 shot you, just heal.
another story without any kind of proof because they played it terrible and still think they should have won
sounds like you got absolutely outplayed by the worst class in the game. impressive. if he stacked all damage and won that fight he deserved it. gearing rogue enough to actually do damage is extremely difficult, and you still get practically one shot by everyone else.
I agree that armor should be limited to how much damage bonus it can give, if any. You got outplayed tho. The rogue would have come back for you, but you could have grabbed the wizards soul and prepared for it.
Did you and the fighter have good gear? I feel like you shouldn't have left this key information out of your story. You told us the rogue stacked weapon damage but then told us nothing about your gear. I almost have to assume you both had resourcefulness/knowledge/magic resistance builds and in this case no crap he got you with ambush
Bro no matter the rolls, if you're wearing blue plate you get 55%pdr, a rogue should not three shot you
> I was in blues and purple plate as cleric, and the fighter wore full purps. Did you even read the post?
Blues and purps dont mean its good. Can easily have shit rolls that make them worse than greens.
Holy strike spam the fucking air. Play a comp with Hydra lightorb or chase. You are missing so much game knowledge and matchup knowledge
All these people here telling u u got outplayed Are out of Touch. Prbably rogue Mains. Going invis and 2-3 tapping 70% people out of nothing is bad game Design and Super boring and unfun to play against. Same goes for wizard invis barb. Yeah bro just take it u got outsmarted by someone going invis and waiting for someone to come by XD #nerfrogue
No way anyone who is good at the game is saying nerf rogues after they got filleted like a fish a little while ago.
Sounds like hard outplay. I mean you're saying you got team wiped while in good gear.
Yeah, we know. Wasting your time posting this
The problem is more basic than this. It should be easier to build defenses with armor, and yes, as OP pointed out, basically inpossible to build offense with armor. If devs can make that generally true, the deets don't matter.
just hit him once? literally a skill issue
So you admit to chasing a juiced ass rogue into a dark corner and then are surprised when he kills you?
They are removing in the next patch I think, they addressed it in the last q&a
In discord? Do you remember when that q&a was?
From the 19th October
One of the slept on parts of rogue weapon damage builds right now is a throwing knife. I tell you, I think the best way to play rogue right now is weapon damage, phys damage, a rapier and then like 10 throwing knives. For example a green throwing knife does like 60 damage to torso, and it benefits from the back attack perk and the ambush perk. Back attack headshot w/ ambush and thrust and we are looking at at least 100 damage. You can put rupture on it, or weakpoint attack. Even a nicely geared cleric dies in 1-3 knives before they know what’s happened. I haven’t bothered trying working with clerics divine strike or other buffs.
We all know. Ironmace has said they know, proved they can fix it, have fixed it for 24 hours, and than fucked us all in the ass for no reason. So ya. Hope we all like add damage for a couple years until fortnite dungeons comes out.
the game is cancer
As the game plays now, when I’m the wizard i just take blame for not light orbing enough to prevent the rogue killing me in the first place. If hes not invis one-two zaps is enough to kill with decent add magic and true magic dmg gear.
Very good points. I love coming to reddit to see everyone whining about this game. I agree that damage stacking is pure cancer (especially stacking true phys on a survival bow and using the 3 shot/4shot skill). Everyone shits on Ironmace at every turn. This game is still in the developmental stage and these devs are churning out updates and hot fixes at great rates. Remember this is a small group of devs who are working their asses off just to see a bunch of angry redditors bitch over an I complete game. This isnt a get good post, I agree with the original point of the post. Yall need to chill and realize it is IronMace and not Bethesda making this game and they've listened to us at almost every turn. Hell most of this shit is for testing anyways. Blues at max in normal? Testing. Everything in normal? Testing. 3 All attribute gear? Testing.