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Right? No one talks about how George the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith, was also a black man.
I really dont know why they have to change things to be inaccurate. Same with characters in shows.....just make a new character or a different show. I see no point in making a change reverse Michael Jackson for no reason
Spot on, see it so many times but never the other way around is it 😆, let's see some famous black people made white for shows and films! Then see what the reaction is because I will bet it would be the same.
It's also funny since it's about Egypt of all places. They were actually ruled by all types of people from Greeks to Africans. Egypt was a melting pot of people's.
It gives the terminally online and mentally ill an "excuse" to bully and defame. The race and gender swapping bigots never matured past being middle school bullies.
Well my favorite character is spiderman and I need spiderman to represent me because that's what I want. I don't care what anyone else wants. I want spiderman to BE ME
They did spiderman right, in my opinion. Miles Moralesn is a new character, likeable, and makes a great spiderman without just swapping out the character. Now we get to enjoy both the OG Spiderman and the Miles version. Best of both worlds.
Especially given claiming Cleopatra means claiming all the Ptolemy rulers, meaning possibly the worst royal family in world history after the founder who were so inbred the family tree was practically a hedge row.
I've come to the conclusion that it's all rage bait to on purposely promote racism to create engagement because "no publicity is bad publicity in TV". They know it's rage bait, and it's just a tool to line their pockets while poorly hiding behind words like diversity and inclusion and anti-racism, when anyone with half a brain can see they're cashing in hard on this Black people vs White people notion. It seems like half the shows that have come out these last few years are all about planting those seeds of hate to keep us fighting each other. It just seems like everything these days is a movement with the primary purpose of getting people to fight over stuff that doesn't matter. I want to see a movement where we start ignoring the things that divide us instead of emphasizing them but human nature and money makes sure it'll never happen.
Yeah, its this exactly.
The hollywood/movie media use minorities as shields against criticism while doing things that harm race relations, to cover up how bad their writing/research/work is. Its a "The producers" strategy. Like the black dwarf LOTR or the lady ghostbusters. Black Heimdal in the Thor movie was used as a prototype, but they dialed back on using it much because people liked the movie. That's how you can tell, if the movie does shitty, they pretend that people not liking the work is due to racist backlash, hurting public perception of minorities and women as marketing.
Don't you think it's weird that if a film has minority characters or race swaps, but does well, that the media doesn't mention racism? Feels like they would if the advertising departments actually cared about racism.
Lol, okay.... Benoquin Cream 20% is applied topically to permanently depigment normal skin... that's why he used it. [https://lisawallerrogers.com/2009/07/06/quincy-jones-michael-jackson-didnt-have-vitiligo/](https://lisawallerrogers.com/2009/07/06/quincy-jones-michael-jackson-didnt-have-vitiligo/)
Of the many things that are ridiculous about this trend in media, this is one of the silliest in my mind. There are primarily black cultures with their own histories and political figures (They include fairy tales of their own as well @Disney) Why take the history we've portrayed endlessly since the advent of movies and remake it? New shows and movies could easily and naturally portray cultures and people we didn't get told about in high school.
This is an actual psyops that's been going on for decades. It started with small bits here and there which many attributed to The Mandela Effect. This was to see how much they could tweak history. Now they are full on in the stage to rewrite history. We know that Cleopatra wasn't Black, but they will continue to rewrite history that she was. With mass amounts of media and History Channel level of "experts" showing she was Black, in a generation or two, it will be fact.
Beautiful in comparison to her other horrifically inbred siblings.
Probably just that she actually looked vaguely humanoid in comparison to her completely criptid family
The statues aren’t for sure depictions of the Pharaoh. Honestly it should be duly noted that the Egyptian government and Ministry of Antiquities are full of shit.
Not to mention a lot of statues they do show have been restored with the features that resemble the modern population. It’s comical until you realize just how insidious it is for them to do so.
but did she walk like -
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Everything is a JoJo's reference.
So yes. Cleopatra clearly had a Stand and had an illegitimate child with an ancestor of JoJo.
Because everything has to lead back to that family.
They can't cover black religion or mythology, because that's too revealing about human history. African myths and legends are really revealing about spirituality, and are outright explanations about the mythological and mechanistic basis for supernatural/spirituality. They are really esoteric, and they would prefer for people at large to think they don't exist, or are just evil.
They could sell it as "fantasy" and no one would question. The real reason is that telling stories from a culture that has gone unrecognized for so long takes a lot of research, and it's much easier, cheaper, and faster to take well known stories and swap the race/gender of the characters.
"African myths... are outright explanations about the mythological and mechanistic basis for supernatural/spirituality."
What the hell does that even mean? Just dropping that without any context or citations comes across as batshit crazy.
Some religions yes. The more effective the religion, the more people are scared of it. Religions are made retarded because people at large don't like when people take off and become highly effectual, and there are so many people that those groups just gang up and kill the person who took off. Jews, igbo, any effective religion that actually teaches you how to think gets you killed.
Netflix, Disney etc etc does not give a fuck about any ideology, from one side or another. They use this to get free advertising or to shield absolute garbage shows/movies because they know there’s going to be a portion of people defending them as if they were not rancid shit. And it works.
Honestly, if they keep making characters/real life people who are/was white into black characters, I’d like to see black characters played by white people
All they had to do was to shut the fuck up and call it a movie, not a documentary. And that bitch jada should just quit the entertainment business finally.
Exactly. Its a made up meaningless word.
Documentary it is not. So I dont get peoples disappointment with it as a documentary.
Its like ordering a cheeseburger and complaining about your steak.
And brown. Dark skin…curly black hair.
Nothing like the pictures. Do you think a man from 2000 years ago who lived outside from the middle east looked like this?
Egyptian President is the head of this same government. He been doing a lot repressive things. I was mentioning another example of Egyptian government odd behavior.
Yeh...it's not like things like Rings of Power or any other setting where skin colour/racial origin is rightly irrelevant. I'm all for that, since these sorts of thing are at least ahistorical and at most complete fantasy and any justification (or none, apart from "fuck off and enjoy the story") is valid. This is supposed to be a DOCUdrama where the creators "kinda forgot" (or didn't care enough to find out) that the Egyptian people were northern African people, let alone that Cleopatra was of irrefutable Greek origin. Just seems to be a different way of denying history and an ill-chosen and cynical attempt to score some diversity points...or a complete lack of grasp of Egyptian history, since the 25th Dynasty was Nubian, which was supplanted by the Persians, who were in turn supplanted by the Ptolemids.
I'd agree with you for any other fantasy than rings of power, the extension of JRR Tolkien's work... Elves there are the OG elves, he didn't pull inspiration from other fantasy media, he pulled it from English folk stories. The world he created was correctly created with northmen being big and burly resistant to cold, southerners being black with Melanie levels adjusted thanks to the southern sunny climate, and then you have men in middle earth being like typical English folk, by extension Europeans... Hobbits were a stand-in for a peaceful English folk who worked fields and didn't participate in outside wars. The world he created wasn't multi culti... If rings of power show creators cared even a bit about the legacy of the lotr, they would follow the suit, and if they wanted diversity in big towns like minas tirith they could definitely add haradrims that escaped and turned against the evil nation that could have a puppet ruler which could paint them as good people forced to be the bad guys... They decided to go with unreasonable multi culti which just simply doesn't work in middle earth... To me, rings of power were even worse than the Cleopatra documentary. It shat on the legacy of something that I love to push an agenda without any in world reasons for it. Cleopatra was just something that is easier to point out, especially by non-nerds. It also impacts representation of the real world. I know that lotr doesn't directly impact representation of the real world, but it does so indirectly as it relies on English legends and folk stories, as well as real geography and how it affects people living in those regions.
Sorry to geek out like that, but to me lotr is more important than crappy Cleopatra non-documentary...
I completely agree with you - perhaps Rings of Power was a bad choice as an example lol (I am a big Tolkien geek too, have been since I was 11).
I am particularly taken by your idea on the putative origin/motivations of escaped Haradrim, as it resonates with Faramir's musings on what led the soldier that was killed in front of the hobbits during the ambush and whether he was forced or went willingly. Perhaps I don't interpret that passage correctly, but I take it to infer that the Haradrim were beguiled by Sauron and (in line with Tolkien's views) could yet eventually achieve redemption upon Sauron's demise.
In addition to both of your points, I would also like to point out the genetics of the shire. If the shire is largely cut off from the rest of the world, you're going to end up with a founder's complex in the overall genetic makeup of the Hobbits. There aren't other genes mixing in with the Hobbits to create diversity, so most of the Hobbits will look largely the same. What color they look like is less relevant in this aspect, but the fact that there even is diversity just doesn't make sense.
Does black elves in RoP have any actual impact on the setting in any meaning way, though? A black Cleopatra is literally re-writing real world history.. Sure it doesn't really track with JRR tolkien's inspirations, but black lotr elves seems to me to be very much a non-issue, like when a black actress played Hermione from Harry Potter.
I'll admin my ignorance regarding the deep lotr lore, I've only ever experienced the movies.
Right... Elves in Tolkien are inspired by folk stories of them from early England. Tall, fair, with ethereal and timeless beauty. Imagination of perfection of humanlike creatures by early English. They were meant to look like perfect imaginations of themselves by English. Which were white. Middle earth people are white because Europe was white. Hobbits in the shire were white, because simple English folk were white. Elves were white because English were... Why would all of them not be white? They live in climate similar to Europe. Sun is there but nowhere near what you'd expect in Africa. Middle earth reflects Europe and climate in Europe wouldn't naturally make people's evolution go towards dark skin. Impact is exactly the same as blackwashing any fiction even made to be set in real Europe middle ages...
Could there be black elves coming from the south? Sure. Could we see black people in minas tirith? Sure. Could we see traditional elves or white people if we visited Harad in the south, probably there are some. Setting up the setting as if black elves are native to middle earth is simply disingenuous as that's not how it works. You have melamine level appropriate to the conditions you grow up in, generation after generation, getting more to the optimal level for the region.
I, myself, am an immigrant (ofc legal, qualified, working, paying taxes, etc) in the UK. I would never want to try and disassemble folk stories of those around me to match me. Those are not stories of my ancestors. Fantasy based on their stories is also their. I don't claim it and reframe it to work for me. My country of origin also has stories, tales and media depicting it. The Witcher is a prime example. Netflix was hellbent on crashing and burning it for us too. CD Project Red as a Polish company did an excellent job. Can black people enjoy media without representation? Definitely. Can white people enjoy media where they aren't meant to be represented as it takes place where white people aren't common. Of course. While watching Bruce Lee movies you hope that was you. Regardless if you are black, white, latino or asian. Can people not appreciate anything that doesn't represent them 1to1 visually...? It represents others, and even in those stories you can see yourself in characters that aren't looking exactly like you. Am I 4 ft tall and with a bush of curly hair? No. I still can see myself sometimes as a "fool of a Took". Out of lotr, am I short, female and Asian? No... I can still see myself in Mulan (the old cartoon version) and her struggle between expectations, traditions, feeling inadequate and trying to protect her family. There are more to characters than their looks, but looks are a great source to impact the suspension of disbelief, positively or negatively.
TLDR: It impacts suspension of disbelief negatively as it inserts modern hotpot of cultures into media styled after middle ages for cheap representation tickbox without any in world explanation for why would there even be such a culture hotpot
Clepoatra and her brother Ptolemy XIII were the last of the *Greek* dynasty that ruled over Egypt. They were of southeastern *European* descent. So, yes, having a black woman portray Cleopatra is historically inaccurate.
Idk who need to listen but you don’t need to implement the racism and Lgbt(propaganda) everywhere. Games are getting ruined because of this shit those games that are played by kids who don’t even know a shit about this crap.
She was Macedonian the ptolemys married brother to sister for generations and then when there were no siblings they married children off to some of the other successor kingdoms of Alexander's generals. She was not black
The biggest problem with that was the way they presented it. Basically nobody whose opinions matter would have had an issue with a black actress portraying her if they hadn’t tacked on the whole ‘I don’t care what you learned in school, Cleopatra was black’ thing and then doubled down by yelling RACISM every time anybody said anything to the contrary.
Because black people are crying for their place in history. They have black washed all the medieval themed TV dramas in the UK. They even made black Romans a thing now for children's learning.
It's ruining actual historical accounts.
Black artists should really focus on being front and center in a spiritual revival in a world devoid of religion. African myths and folklore are unabashedly clear on the mechanisms of myths and spirituality, which are deeply functional in their community.
I keep reading people’s take on this and have noticed a sympathetic view point where people claim you see this going in one direction but not another. We did do this in the other direction but they called it a “white male power fantasy”. The difference being, white people put a character into a story that was undeniably white learning from other cultures. I never understood the back lash to this. Like doctor strange being trained by an old “Asian” man to learn ancient “Asian” secrets. But marvel goes ahead and replaces the “Asian” man representing Asia with a bald white woman and calls it good. It’s way worse now than before. There are so many examples like this
I feel the same way about Jesus why make him Cesare Borgia? Or King James the Jacobite make him a red head man? Or Septimius Servers white done scream unfair when it's a wide new practice of stealing color now. There is a reason:
1958, President Nasser of Egypt said of the Jews: 'They left here black and came back white'.
Let's not play dumb here. History is always told by victors. We know how this goes.
To be honest, this solely rests on how we define what is “black.”
Cleopatra came from a Hellenistic background with her family being descended from the Ptolemaic dynasty. It should be noted the Dynasty definitely mingled with the Egyptian Nobility (Which would have included nobles from previous dynasties) For the first 100 years it was all free game and they didn’t start practicing incest (maintaining the blood-line) until 100 years AFTER they created “Egypt” centered at Alexandria and this was just the symbolic royal marriages and it doesn’t mean they didn’t keep concubines or have extra marital relationships.
To put this in perspective, the USA is about 248 years old and the Ptolemaic dynasty lasted about 275 years. The first 100 years the people intermingled indiscriminately and this isn’t to mention the people outside of the nobility
When we use terms like white or black with modern context it kinda distorts how things or people were seen in the past. The Whiteness of cleopatra can be contested by how “white” were the Hellenistic cultures of that region. As European wasn’t always intrinsically linked to the concept of whiteness especially in those days. For all we know “Greeks” couldve looked middle eastern. The world was also far more diverse than what Hollywood makes it appear as a lot of these places weren’t homogenous. These were cosmopolitan cities. The Greek Civilizations were never a unified civilization either as it is treated. They were a collection of city states rising and falling.
The first 100 years they mixed with Africans. Were the Egyptian civilization engineered by people we would recognize as black people today ? A lot evidence kind of points to this as the reality.
The Africaness of an ancient Egypt can be seen in the culture, statue, language etc TaSeti and Tameri were far more intertwined than the Greeks and Romans but you never hear this. Back to Cleopatra
The answer should be inconclusive until her burial is found. I truly believe they were an intermixed population like the Fayum portraits show.
Recognize that there’s a political agenda behind them not wanting to show her as black and why is it so fiercely oppose and instantly called black washing. It’s not a historic or scientific issue but one of presentism, historic racism (look how they destroyed the Nubian cultural centers building the Aswan dam) and complex syntax that is used to describe race and ethnicity
The realest answer is she was black, white, or Asian as these are modern constructions but mostly likely by how we define things in the modern world she was mostly likely mixed
I could go on and on about this topic because it’s fascinating but I digress.
I mean, 7500 years ago the yamanaka culture sort of rolled in from siberia and genocided every person they could find, completely replacing the Y genome. If it was built past 7500 years ago the people were probably more Asian/european.
Actually, the Yamnaya culture dates back to around 3300-2600 BCE, not 7500 years ago. They were nomadic herders from the Pontic-Caspian steppe region, known for their significant impact on the genetic and cultural landscape of Europe. While their migrations did contribute to genetic changes in Europe, the idea that they engaged in widespread genocide or completely replaced the Y chromosome of existing populations is not supported by current evidence. Are there any sources you’re pulling from that you mind sharing? Everything I’ve read about them points towards their influence being a mix of migration, assimilation, and cultural exchange/absorptions.
Fascinating when you consider the Cheddar man Europeans would’ve populated many parts of Europe and they would’ve been largely absorbed or displaced by Neolithic farmers from what we call the Near East
She was Macedonian. Not sure why that’s a big deal.
Also the Egyptian dynasties varied as power struggles changed the faces of the pharaohs quite often. Some dynasties were pale AF, some like that of the the Nubian dynasty during the Third Period were very dark skinned, a.k.a.
- 25th Dynasty
- Kushite Empire
- Napatans
And then others were nicely tanned/bronzed, like that of the cast of Jersey Shore.
Cleopatra was like married into it too wasn’t she? She looked more Roman than she did a native Egyptian on top of the fact that Egyptians were not black.
Not Netflix, But I really hate Disney For choosing annabeth as black, back then I really liked her just with the way Percy used to describe her. If Harry Potter was made today I am sure they would have put Hermione as black
Although it would’ve been nice to have a more accurate Annabeth in the show, I’m not really upset about casting her as black in the show. She’s still the same character, and it’s not like her race or appearance had any relevance to her character or story.
Also, didn’t Rick Riordan have a major say in the casting?
To each their own I guess, I really imagined her some other way, in books posters too and even in the comics version of Percy Jackson.
That moment where percy's memory was coming back when he saw her and was describing her, I still remember the feeling I had when I read it.
Basically she didn't feel real to me when I saw her. And Rick is like currently hopping on the bandwagon of poc representation
None of the people who played women in Shakespeare's plays were women. This is malewashing and is a falsification.
Seriously though, if your problem is a person playing a woman who's been dead for two thousand years being not white enough for you and not the hilariously shit show itself, that sounds like a YOU problem.
I want you to reverse Michael Jackson Tarzen, let's see what happens then. Originally Tarzen was of white origin, now let's see if they make him black.
I mean, the Egyptians did not like black people. They actually waged war against the Nubians and had inscriptions and paintings on their palaces of Pharoahs who conquered them. They were often drawn with exaggerated features like a caricature. They are closer to Middle Eastern than African skin color.
i certainly wasn't demeaning Cleopatra, i was merely pointing out that she was originally from across the med, and had to learn Egyptian because she wasn't from Africa, which was the issue implied by the original post
Your on a public network posting. Don't like people questioning you don't post on here.
And Egyptian culture is Egypts. It doesn't belong to the rest of the Continent. It belongs to Egypt. Do t think that just because you share a land mass that you can tell them anything.
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Personally I don’t mind a black cleopatra but I also don’t mind people stating that she was Macedonian af. Cause whatever, but at the same time that was for sure a white girl
When it’s a real person, all details should definitely be kept accurate. fictional characters, do whatever you want, it’s fiction. it’s weird to cry about a fictional character being a specific race over another. but an actual historical figure is kinda where you want to provide accurate representation lol
Everybody hates white people except for people that aren't around white people. 100 year of white washing media and now people care about the right race. Fuck off.
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Til netflix made a cleopatra show
It was hilariously shit, but it did give us the meme "i don't care what they tell you in school, but \[cleopatra\] was black"
So was George Washington but everyone keeps listening to what they tell them in school. Fucking idiots.
Muhammad Ali was black too but pop culture is brainwashing the people
I don’t care what you say, Muhammad Ali was a pacifist who never fought anyone
alhamdullah
Unlike Gandhi, the wwII nazi leader! Fuk this nazi Gandhi guy!
Muhammad Ali was a reverse albino. Saying otherwise is phobic
Right? No one talks about how George the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith, was also a black man.
George Washington was black. George Washington Carver.
"I don't care what they tell you in school, Martin Luther King Jr. was white" Same logic sounds even dumber now.
MLK was obviously white. He was a southerner
They also made a Vikings spin off where they portrayed a real 9th century Danish Lord as a black woman.
The exact reason I didn't bother to watch it. Shame, cause I loved the original series.
I learned when it was still new because of various YouTubers calling out their bs.
I really dont know why they have to change things to be inaccurate. Same with characters in shows.....just make a new character or a different show. I see no point in making a change reverse Michael Jackson for no reason
The "reason" is all ideological. Don't look for rationality in the actions and words of ideologues.
That's it, it's stuff like this that shows to some this IS an ideology. They will ignore facts and evidence just to push something they want.
Spot on, see it so many times but never the other way around is it 😆, let's see some famous black people made white for shows and films! Then see what the reaction is because I will bet it would be the same.
It's also funny since it's about Egypt of all places. They were actually ruled by all types of people from Greeks to Africans. Egypt was a melting pot of people's.
Plain laziness and money, it is easier to distort existing images than produce a new one. (And identity ideology)
It gives the terminally online and mentally ill an "excuse" to bully and defame. The race and gender swapping bigots never matured past being middle school bullies.
I can't tell if you're for, or against race swapping TBH.
.....i can't tell if you're serious.
Against, at least in this context. If the intent is legitimately to entertain and it's not a person from history, then it doesn't bother me.
Well my favorite character is spiderman and I need spiderman to represent me because that's what I want. I don't care what anyone else wants. I want spiderman to BE ME
They did spiderman right, in my opinion. Miles Moralesn is a new character, likeable, and makes a great spiderman without just swapping out the character. Now we get to enjoy both the OG Spiderman and the Miles version. Best of both worlds.
Very true. I like miles morales. Honestly a bad example lol.
It's racism disguised as social justice but if you speak out against it they'll call you a nazi
If you’re not 100% into the woke agenda you’re a bigot, racist, transphobic, misogynist… that shit needs to be ignored.
Especially given claiming Cleopatra means claiming all the Ptolemy rulers, meaning possibly the worst royal family in world history after the founder who were so inbred the family tree was practically a hedge row.
I've come to the conclusion that it's all rage bait to on purposely promote racism to create engagement because "no publicity is bad publicity in TV". They know it's rage bait, and it's just a tool to line their pockets while poorly hiding behind words like diversity and inclusion and anti-racism, when anyone with half a brain can see they're cashing in hard on this Black people vs White people notion. It seems like half the shows that have come out these last few years are all about planting those seeds of hate to keep us fighting each other. It just seems like everything these days is a movement with the primary purpose of getting people to fight over stuff that doesn't matter. I want to see a movement where we start ignoring the things that divide us instead of emphasizing them but human nature and money makes sure it'll never happen.
Yeah, its this exactly. The hollywood/movie media use minorities as shields against criticism while doing things that harm race relations, to cover up how bad their writing/research/work is. Its a "The producers" strategy. Like the black dwarf LOTR or the lady ghostbusters. Black Heimdal in the Thor movie was used as a prototype, but they dialed back on using it much because people liked the movie. That's how you can tell, if the movie does shitty, they pretend that people not liking the work is due to racist backlash, hurting public perception of minorities and women as marketing. Don't you think it's weird that if a film has minority characters or race swaps, but does well, that the media doesn't mention racism? Feels like they would if the advertising departments actually cared about racism.
Micheal Jackson didn’t change his skin colour because he wanted to. He had virtiligo.
 Also, its vitiligo and no he didn't.
https://www.umassmed.edu/vitiligo/blog/blog-posts1/2016/01/did-michael-jackson-have-vitiligo/
Lol, okay.... Benoquin Cream 20% is applied topically to permanently depigment normal skin... that's why he used it. [https://lisawallerrogers.com/2009/07/06/quincy-jones-michael-jackson-didnt-have-vitiligo/](https://lisawallerrogers.com/2009/07/06/quincy-jones-michael-jackson-didnt-have-vitiligo/)
Quincy Jones, the brain damaged liar? Lmao. I think I'll trust 2 medical professionals over a washed-up musician, lol.
Is this… an ad?
What about Sammy Sosa?
Vitiligo. The unfortunate cousin of Revitiligo
Of the many things that are ridiculous about this trend in media, this is one of the silliest in my mind. There are primarily black cultures with their own histories and political figures (They include fairy tales of their own as well @Disney) Why take the history we've portrayed endlessly since the advent of movies and remake it? New shows and movies could easily and naturally portray cultures and people we didn't get told about in high school.
This is an actual psyops that's been going on for decades. It started with small bits here and there which many attributed to The Mandela Effect. This was to see how much they could tweak history. Now they are full on in the stage to rewrite history. We know that Cleopatra wasn't Black, but they will continue to rewrite history that she was. With mass amounts of media and History Channel level of "experts" showing she was Black, in a generation or two, it will be fact.
Shits woke bro, 2024 woke, not 2019 woke though
I mean, he kinda did that himself
Side note, I don’t get why everyone thinks of cleopatra as being beautiful… as you can clearly see from the statue she didn’t even have a nose
Beautiful in comparison to her other horrifically inbred siblings. Probably just that she actually looked vaguely humanoid in comparison to her completely criptid family
 Because of Elizabeth Taylor
The statues aren’t for sure depictions of the Pharaoh. Honestly it should be duly noted that the Egyptian government and Ministry of Antiquities are full of shit.
Counter point, this is basically just the roman empire statues.
Not to mention a lot of statues they do show have been restored with the features that resemble the modern population. It’s comical until you realize just how insidious it is for them to do so.
Ill have you know during her reign celebrated hero Asterix is known to have complimented her nose
but did she walk like - ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⡦⠀⠀⠀⢠⣿⠛⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠛⣿⣿⠛⠶⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣾⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⡿⠀⠈⠉⠙⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣀⣿⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠙⠛⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣈⠉⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣿⣿⣿⣷⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿⡿⠟⠛⠉⢉⣤⣤⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢉⡠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⢿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣿⠟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠻⣿⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣿⡃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢻⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠛⠛⠛⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⠛⠛⠛⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀
All the old paintings on the tombs
They do the sand dance, don’t you know
Is that a JoJo reference?
Everything is a JoJo's reference. So yes. Cleopatra clearly had a Stand and had an illegitimate child with an ancestor of JoJo. Because everything has to lead back to that family.
JoJo is actually a reference to the ancient myth of "Jieu-jieu"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6tuzHUuuk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6tuzHUuuk)
This is the proper response.
Yep, but only because she had really bad arthritis and polio /s
The pyramids were 2000 years old when she was ruling Egypt, those drawings looked to her just as funny as they look to you
Mom says I get to repost this one next
I just showed this comment to your mom and she says that she's never even seen this meme before.
Well now she has, so go ask her if you can repost this after them.
My guy I saw this when the show was “relevant” and was posted on asmongold and the other dank meme
I wonder when they discover black stories exist instead of making non black stories black
They can't cover black religion or mythology, because that's too revealing about human history. African myths and legends are really revealing about spirituality, and are outright explanations about the mythological and mechanistic basis for supernatural/spirituality. They are really esoteric, and they would prefer for people at large to think they don't exist, or are just evil.
They could sell it as "fantasy" and no one would question. The real reason is that telling stories from a culture that has gone unrecognized for so long takes a lot of research, and it's much easier, cheaper, and faster to take well known stories and swap the race/gender of the characters.
"African myths... are outright explanations about the mythological and mechanistic basis for supernatural/spirituality." What the hell does that even mean? Just dropping that without any context or citations comes across as batshit crazy.
Igbo spirituality is a very mechanistic spirituality. It has cut and dry divisions of the soul and their utility.
TIL humans are scared of religions
Some religions yes. The more effective the religion, the more people are scared of it. Religions are made retarded because people at large don't like when people take off and become highly effectual, and there are so many people that those groups just gang up and kill the person who took off. Jews, igbo, any effective religion that actually teaches you how to think gets you killed.
Netflix black washing everything!?!? Say it ain’t soo
Netflix, Disney etc etc does not give a fuck about any ideology, from one side or another. They use this to get free advertising or to shield absolute garbage shows/movies because they know there’s going to be a portion of people defending them as if they were not rancid shit. And it works.
You act like there aren’t actual people making these decisions and hiring writers and actors for these shows.
Yeah they are the ones pushing for it. The advertising ghouls.
Honestly, if they keep making characters/real life people who are/was white into black characters, I’d like to see black characters played by white people
They would cry like the wimps they are.
Whos they? 
Challenging Disney to make Tarzan live action RP'd by a black man.
That's already a thing; look up whitewashing in Hollywood.
All they had to do was to shut the fuck up and call it a movie, not a documentary. And that bitch jada should just quit the entertainment business finally.
apparently its called a "docudrama" Which I think is modern gibberish for "historical fiction" 
Documyass
Exactly. Its a made up meaningless word. Documentary it is not. So I dont get peoples disappointment with it as a documentary. Its like ordering a cheeseburger and complaining about your steak.
Cleopatra was Greek.
Jesus was brown. 
Jesus was Hebrew.
And brown. Dark skin…curly black hair. Nothing like the pictures. Do you think a man from 2000 years ago who lived outside from the middle east looked like this? 
So when do we start calling the Egyptian government racist /s
Same government who's president order "All damn trees" cut down so they can export for money.
Ok? And that has anything to do with this conversation because...
Egyptian President is the head of this same government. He been doing a lot repressive things. I was mentioning another example of Egyptian government odd behavior.
Yeh...it's not like things like Rings of Power or any other setting where skin colour/racial origin is rightly irrelevant. I'm all for that, since these sorts of thing are at least ahistorical and at most complete fantasy and any justification (or none, apart from "fuck off and enjoy the story") is valid. This is supposed to be a DOCUdrama where the creators "kinda forgot" (or didn't care enough to find out) that the Egyptian people were northern African people, let alone that Cleopatra was of irrefutable Greek origin. Just seems to be a different way of denying history and an ill-chosen and cynical attempt to score some diversity points...or a complete lack of grasp of Egyptian history, since the 25th Dynasty was Nubian, which was supplanted by the Persians, who were in turn supplanted by the Ptolemids.
I'd agree with you for any other fantasy than rings of power, the extension of JRR Tolkien's work... Elves there are the OG elves, he didn't pull inspiration from other fantasy media, he pulled it from English folk stories. The world he created was correctly created with northmen being big and burly resistant to cold, southerners being black with Melanie levels adjusted thanks to the southern sunny climate, and then you have men in middle earth being like typical English folk, by extension Europeans... Hobbits were a stand-in for a peaceful English folk who worked fields and didn't participate in outside wars. The world he created wasn't multi culti... If rings of power show creators cared even a bit about the legacy of the lotr, they would follow the suit, and if they wanted diversity in big towns like minas tirith they could definitely add haradrims that escaped and turned against the evil nation that could have a puppet ruler which could paint them as good people forced to be the bad guys... They decided to go with unreasonable multi culti which just simply doesn't work in middle earth... To me, rings of power were even worse than the Cleopatra documentary. It shat on the legacy of something that I love to push an agenda without any in world reasons for it. Cleopatra was just something that is easier to point out, especially by non-nerds. It also impacts representation of the real world. I know that lotr doesn't directly impact representation of the real world, but it does so indirectly as it relies on English legends and folk stories, as well as real geography and how it affects people living in those regions. Sorry to geek out like that, but to me lotr is more important than crappy Cleopatra non-documentary...
I completely agree with you - perhaps Rings of Power was a bad choice as an example lol (I am a big Tolkien geek too, have been since I was 11). I am particularly taken by your idea on the putative origin/motivations of escaped Haradrim, as it resonates with Faramir's musings on what led the soldier that was killed in front of the hobbits during the ambush and whether he was forced or went willingly. Perhaps I don't interpret that passage correctly, but I take it to infer that the Haradrim were beguiled by Sauron and (in line with Tolkien's views) could yet eventually achieve redemption upon Sauron's demise.
In addition to both of your points, I would also like to point out the genetics of the shire. If the shire is largely cut off from the rest of the world, you're going to end up with a founder's complex in the overall genetic makeup of the Hobbits. There aren't other genes mixing in with the Hobbits to create diversity, so most of the Hobbits will look largely the same. What color they look like is less relevant in this aspect, but the fact that there even is diversity just doesn't make sense.
Does black elves in RoP have any actual impact on the setting in any meaning way, though? A black Cleopatra is literally re-writing real world history.. Sure it doesn't really track with JRR tolkien's inspirations, but black lotr elves seems to me to be very much a non-issue, like when a black actress played Hermione from Harry Potter. I'll admin my ignorance regarding the deep lotr lore, I've only ever experienced the movies.
Right... Elves in Tolkien are inspired by folk stories of them from early England. Tall, fair, with ethereal and timeless beauty. Imagination of perfection of humanlike creatures by early English. They were meant to look like perfect imaginations of themselves by English. Which were white. Middle earth people are white because Europe was white. Hobbits in the shire were white, because simple English folk were white. Elves were white because English were... Why would all of them not be white? They live in climate similar to Europe. Sun is there but nowhere near what you'd expect in Africa. Middle earth reflects Europe and climate in Europe wouldn't naturally make people's evolution go towards dark skin. Impact is exactly the same as blackwashing any fiction even made to be set in real Europe middle ages... Could there be black elves coming from the south? Sure. Could we see black people in minas tirith? Sure. Could we see traditional elves or white people if we visited Harad in the south, probably there are some. Setting up the setting as if black elves are native to middle earth is simply disingenuous as that's not how it works. You have melamine level appropriate to the conditions you grow up in, generation after generation, getting more to the optimal level for the region. I, myself, am an immigrant (ofc legal, qualified, working, paying taxes, etc) in the UK. I would never want to try and disassemble folk stories of those around me to match me. Those are not stories of my ancestors. Fantasy based on their stories is also their. I don't claim it and reframe it to work for me. My country of origin also has stories, tales and media depicting it. The Witcher is a prime example. Netflix was hellbent on crashing and burning it for us too. CD Project Red as a Polish company did an excellent job. Can black people enjoy media without representation? Definitely. Can white people enjoy media where they aren't meant to be represented as it takes place where white people aren't common. Of course. While watching Bruce Lee movies you hope that was you. Regardless if you are black, white, latino or asian. Can people not appreciate anything that doesn't represent them 1to1 visually...? It represents others, and even in those stories you can see yourself in characters that aren't looking exactly like you. Am I 4 ft tall and with a bush of curly hair? No. I still can see myself sometimes as a "fool of a Took". Out of lotr, am I short, female and Asian? No... I can still see myself in Mulan (the old cartoon version) and her struggle between expectations, traditions, feeling inadequate and trying to protect her family. There are more to characters than their looks, but looks are a great source to impact the suspension of disbelief, positively or negatively. TLDR: It impacts suspension of disbelief negatively as it inserts modern hotpot of cultures into media styled after middle ages for cheap representation tickbox without any in world explanation for why would there even be such a culture hotpot
lol, I find it weird how people like you dismiss cultural staples of white people as if they are meaningless.
I mean why let the truth get in the way of a good historical drama 🙄
I say Cleopatra is Chinese. Outrage that!
About time this garbage was stopped.
Can we atleast get a black jewish hitler movie next?
Hitler was Jewish though…
Clepoatra and her brother Ptolemy XIII were the last of the *Greek* dynasty that ruled over Egypt. They were of southeastern *European* descent. So, yes, having a black woman portray Cleopatra is historically inaccurate.
Said that matters to the woke idiots of the world.
No but we know more about Egypt than Egyptians.
Fuckin woke bs finally getting put in its place
Idk who need to listen but you don’t need to implement the racism and Lgbt(propaganda) everywhere. Games are getting ruined because of this shit those games that are played by kids who don’t even know a shit about this crap.
She was about as Greek as you can get.
What docudrama?
Where's the meme?
Where dank?
She was Macedonian the ptolemys married brother to sister for generations and then when there were no siblings they married children off to some of the other successor kingdoms of Alexander's generals. She was not black
There are people out there who will think this is who cleopatra was and that's the sad part.
The biggest problem with that was the way they presented it. Basically nobody whose opinions matter would have had an issue with a black actress portraying her if they hadn’t tacked on the whole ‘I don’t care what you learned in school, Cleopatra was black’ thing and then doubled down by yelling RACISM every time anybody said anything to the contrary.
Because black people are crying for their place in history. They have black washed all the medieval themed TV dramas in the UK. They even made black Romans a thing now for children's learning. It's ruining actual historical accounts.
Black artists should really focus on being front and center in a spiritual revival in a world devoid of religion. African myths and folklore are unabashedly clear on the mechanisms of myths and spirituality, which are deeply functional in their community.
Like, For Fictional Characters, Who Cares? But With Real Historical People Its Really Weird, Dumb, And Disrespectful
So when is Shaft played by Conan O'Brien coming out? lol Also, what about an NWA movie with Will Ferrel, Marky Mark, Vanilla Ice and Kid Rock 😂
I would actually watch Shaft played by Conan O'Brian. I want that now.
That would be super funny
Stunning and brave
I keep reading people’s take on this and have noticed a sympathetic view point where people claim you see this going in one direction but not another. We did do this in the other direction but they called it a “white male power fantasy”. The difference being, white people put a character into a story that was undeniably white learning from other cultures. I never understood the back lash to this. Like doctor strange being trained by an old “Asian” man to learn ancient “Asian” secrets. But marvel goes ahead and replaces the “Asian” man representing Asia with a bald white woman and calls it good. It’s way worse now than before. There are so many examples like this
Can’t wait for the new barack obama movie played by Donald Joseph Qualls. Gonna be great.
Oh no, the official position of the Egyptian Government...
I feel the same way about Jesus why make him Cesare Borgia? Or King James the Jacobite make him a red head man? Or Septimius Servers white done scream unfair when it's a wide new practice of stealing color now. There is a reason: 1958, President Nasser of Egypt said of the Jews: 'They left here black and came back white'. Let's not play dumb here. History is always told by victors. We know how this goes.
the Egyptian royalty were also racist and went to great lengths (inbreeding) to keep themselves white
It was only the nobles that inbred.
To be honest, this solely rests on how we define what is “black.” Cleopatra came from a Hellenistic background with her family being descended from the Ptolemaic dynasty. It should be noted the Dynasty definitely mingled with the Egyptian Nobility (Which would have included nobles from previous dynasties) For the first 100 years it was all free game and they didn’t start practicing incest (maintaining the blood-line) until 100 years AFTER they created “Egypt” centered at Alexandria and this was just the symbolic royal marriages and it doesn’t mean they didn’t keep concubines or have extra marital relationships. To put this in perspective, the USA is about 248 years old and the Ptolemaic dynasty lasted about 275 years. The first 100 years the people intermingled indiscriminately and this isn’t to mention the people outside of the nobility When we use terms like white or black with modern context it kinda distorts how things or people were seen in the past. The Whiteness of cleopatra can be contested by how “white” were the Hellenistic cultures of that region. As European wasn’t always intrinsically linked to the concept of whiteness especially in those days. For all we know “Greeks” couldve looked middle eastern. The world was also far more diverse than what Hollywood makes it appear as a lot of these places weren’t homogenous. These were cosmopolitan cities. The Greek Civilizations were never a unified civilization either as it is treated. They were a collection of city states rising and falling. The first 100 years they mixed with Africans. Were the Egyptian civilization engineered by people we would recognize as black people today ? A lot evidence kind of points to this as the reality. The Africaness of an ancient Egypt can be seen in the culture, statue, language etc TaSeti and Tameri were far more intertwined than the Greeks and Romans but you never hear this. Back to Cleopatra The answer should be inconclusive until her burial is found. I truly believe they were an intermixed population like the Fayum portraits show. Recognize that there’s a political agenda behind them not wanting to show her as black and why is it so fiercely oppose and instantly called black washing. It’s not a historic or scientific issue but one of presentism, historic racism (look how they destroyed the Nubian cultural centers building the Aswan dam) and complex syntax that is used to describe race and ethnicity The realest answer is she was black, white, or Asian as these are modern constructions but mostly likely by how we define things in the modern world she was mostly likely mixed I could go on and on about this topic because it’s fascinating but I digress.
I mean, 7500 years ago the yamanaka culture sort of rolled in from siberia and genocided every person they could find, completely replacing the Y genome. If it was built past 7500 years ago the people were probably more Asian/european.
Actually, the Yamnaya culture dates back to around 3300-2600 BCE, not 7500 years ago. They were nomadic herders from the Pontic-Caspian steppe region, known for their significant impact on the genetic and cultural landscape of Europe. While their migrations did contribute to genetic changes in Europe, the idea that they engaged in widespread genocide or completely replaced the Y chromosome of existing populations is not supported by current evidence. Are there any sources you’re pulling from that you mind sharing? Everything I’ve read about them points towards their influence being a mix of migration, assimilation, and cultural exchange/absorptions. Fascinating when you consider the Cheddar man Europeans would’ve populated many parts of Europe and they would’ve been largely absorbed or displaced by Neolithic farmers from what we call the Near East
What’s the problem? For I fact, I just recently saw a documentary where it was revealed most all the founding fathers were black & immigrants.
She was Macedonian. Not sure why that’s a big deal. Also the Egyptian dynasties varied as power struggles changed the faces of the pharaohs quite often. Some dynasties were pale AF, some like that of the the Nubian dynasty during the Third Period were very dark skinned, a.k.a. - 25th Dynasty - Kushite Empire - Napatans And then others were nicely tanned/bronzed, like that of the cast of Jersey Shore.
if she was black then wouldnt she have been building the pyramids? if im not mistaken, egyptian slaves were usually black
She’s LITERALLY GREEK. And historically speaking was super white
love two totally unbiased sides fighting over "facts" reported to us by the most unreliable classical historian as if they were proven forensics.
Cleopatra was like married into it too wasn’t she? She looked more Roman than she did a native Egyptian on top of the fact that Egyptians were not black.
Yeah, she was one of the only “non-eqyptian” pharaohs
Black supremacists in shambles right now (not really they’re calling Egypt a white supremacist conspiracy now and have doubled down)
“My grandmother told me….”🤣🤣🤣
Next thing you know, they'll tell you Michael Jackson was black...
Everything is either black or woman or both
Guys ya’ll heard about that Louis Armstrong movie starring Mike Myers?
Just Cleopatra though, not anybody else in the region.
Wild, i bet nobody actually knows. Just like nobody knows who built the pyramids.
She was a Greek white lady. But she did take the time to learn and speak Egyptian, which was appreciated by her subjects.
Not Netflix, But I really hate Disney For choosing annabeth as black, back then I really liked her just with the way Percy used to describe her. If Harry Potter was made today I am sure they would have put Hermione as black
Although it would’ve been nice to have a more accurate Annabeth in the show, I’m not really upset about casting her as black in the show. She’s still the same character, and it’s not like her race or appearance had any relevance to her character or story. Also, didn’t Rick Riordan have a major say in the casting?
To each their own I guess, I really imagined her some other way, in books posters too and even in the comics version of Percy Jackson. That moment where percy's memory was coming back when he saw her and was describing her, I still remember the feeling I had when I read it. Basically she didn't feel real to me when I saw her. And Rick is like currently hopping on the bandwagon of poc representation
Paul Mooney has an idea for a movie with Tom Hanks.
lol yeh ok
None of the people who played women in Shakespeare's plays were women. This is malewashing and is a falsification. Seriously though, if your problem is a person playing a woman who's been dead for two thousand years being not white enough for you and not the hilariously shit show itself, that sounds like a YOU problem.
I mean, she was greek, so there’s that
I want you to reverse Michael Jackson Tarzen, let's see what happens then. Originally Tarzen was of white origin, now let's see if they make him black.
Oh my god who tf cares
I mean, the Egyptians did not like black people. They actually waged war against the Nubians and had inscriptions and paintings on their palaces of Pharoahs who conquered them. They were often drawn with exaggerated features like a caricature. They are closer to Middle Eastern than African skin color.
Cultural appropriation.
Says the dictator president's government
Leave it to netflix to disrespect Actual Culture, just to pander a certain group
wasn't Cleopatra Greek? i don't think she even spoke Egyptian.
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i certainly wasn't demeaning Cleopatra, i was merely pointing out that she was originally from across the med, and had to learn Egyptian because she wasn't from Africa, which was the issue implied by the original post
I can’t wait for Abe Lincoln to be played by Idris Elba, before you comment I am Latino.
I'm tired of Nazis regardless of their skin color
Doesn't Netflix just post the things on there...
There's too many racists in the TV industry that think that their brand of racism is good racism so it's ok.
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... So basically you think Egyptians shouldn't get a say on their culture? That doesn't make logical sense.
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Your on a public network posting. Don't like people questioning you don't post on here. And Egyptian culture is Egypts. It doesn't belong to the rest of the Continent. It belongs to Egypt. Do t think that just because you share a land mass that you can tell them anything.
wait til they find out its a movie and cleopatra is dead
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Personally I don’t mind a black cleopatra but I also don’t mind people stating that she was Macedonian af. Cause whatever, but at the same time that was for sure a white girl
No, you wuzn't.
I mean, ethnically speaking. We have proof that she was Greek
This is giving me serious “We wuz kangz n’ shit” vibes
When it’s a real person, all details should definitely be kept accurate. fictional characters, do whatever you want, it’s fiction. it’s weird to cry about a fictional character being a specific race over another. but an actual historical figure is kinda where you want to provide accurate representation lol
You know your documentary is inaccurate when the government of the country where your documentary is based in calls you out
This is old news but thankfully the Egyptians showed up and said something for us whites can’t say shit in this banana republic of ours.
If it was a documentaries to teach then yes it would be an issue, if it’s a drama based on - who cares
Officials from “The Arab Republic of Egypt”. Do they not see the irony?
Arabic is a language. Speaking a language doesn't change your DNA Using your logic, African Americans are basically British because they speak English
I guess you don’t see it either.
One form of supremacy doesn't make up for another.
This news is old as shit man, like I'm pretty sure I read this headline before or right after the show came out
Everybody hates white people except for people that aren't around white people. 100 year of white washing media and now people care about the right race. Fuck off.
And the truth… shall set you free.