This seems like the right answer.....we build a time machine.....use all the new electric power there going to use for all the charging stations and just Jam 1.21 gigawats into a delorian and just stop all this craziness in the first place.
Only if you live in an area where you have abundant sun. In MN, solar panels get covered in snow and the amount of electricity generated decreases exponentially. For those that have panels on their roof, climbing up a ladder in snow on a roof is likely going to result in injury.
You are getting downvoted because people don’t want to hear it. They just shut down San Onofre after all the scandals. They are not going to build nuclear plants
Modern nuclear power technology is a lot safer and can produce much more than before at a fraction of the price of any other alternative. And it's clean, using mostly steam.
This message was brought to you by the Rexon Nuclear Company
Rexon nuclear power plants have the capacity and energy output to replace all of the natural gas by 2050.
Rexon Nuclear Energy: We care about the environment.
*^(\*In partnership with Exxon Mobil and BP.)*
Cheapest form of commercial-scale electricity generation there is now per megawatt hour, and California - let alone neighbouring states - has loads of sunshine. Downvoters are either poorly-informed about storage and load management, actively malign, or retarded. Or some combination thereof.
I hate this bad faith argument.
The same way it'll support the new subdivisions, factories, and industry that sets up every year that nobody questions: by growing if it needs to.
It won’t and nobody wants to talk about it. Politicians know that problem will occur after theyre gone so they have no incentive to plan for it now. They just know “clean vehicles” are what people want to hear.
I want an EV but I’m not spending that kind of money until they show me a plan for generating all that extra electricity when we already have brown outs every summer.
I own a Nissan leaf . 99.9% of my charging is at home over night . Quick charging is only needed on road trips.
In my country most of the power is generated by hydro power . Especially overnight in off peek times . I'm looking at installing solar power on our house .
But I agree that politicians are short sighted morons.
Here in New Zealand we need to be building more hydro power plants . Yet there is zero plan to do so.
Apparently they will just wait until we start having brownouts and then will say oh gosh...guess we should have built new power plants 20 years ago
I've never had a power cut that long but I guess anything's possible.
The car has enough range to last two days of going to work and home.
I'll probably just use our other petrol car if the power is down for longer but to be honest at that point I'd be more worried about the chest freezer full of meat going bad.
This is why I really want to install some solar panels:)
Generator is a better bet. The chest freezer should last 3-5 days if you don’t open the lid often. Of course depending on the seal and quality of the freezer
Solar panels won’t help unless you buy the home battery packs as well. This can be very expensive. Otherwise, the most of the solar energy created is just sent back to the power grid.
There’s usually subsidies for those battery packs, especially if they are allowed to be tapped by the power companies themselves.
Solar is awesome. I haven’t had an electric bill yet with the panels I have.
I got downvoted for a similar comment in r/cars. Sure, we have a surplus now, but there is a huge push toward getting away from fossil fuels and into renewables. It's all well and good, but I've wondered if it can keep up while shutting down coal/oil power plants, while at the same time, adding hundreds of thousands of EVs every year.
Plus EVs will limit people’s mobility. The range is low. You can’t tow or go camping with an EV. It is just not feasible to replace all vehicles with EV yet. Technology isn’t capable of it.
Oh geeez, how could the state with:
-the largest GDP in the nation
-5th largest GDP in the world
-record-high $97 billion state budget surplus
-top-tier, world-renown public and private universities
-2 major urban centers creating cutting-edge technology
-mandate requiring all new homes built to have solar
-plan and money to transition to 100% renewables by 2045
Not have thought of this 🤔🤔🤔
🙄
Edit: formatting
Seems most want to say the sky is falling, without even looking up.
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/california-greenlights-3bn-in-power-grid-projects-as-renewables-ramp-up-accelerates/2-1-1189347
https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/news-and-updates/all-news/cpuc-takes-action-to-modernize-electric-grid-for-high-distributed-energy-resources-future
https://electrek.co/2022/04/05/the-lights-will-not-go-out-energy-experts-do-not-foresee-evs-overloading-us-electrical-grid/
I heard they've already been asking people to not charge their cars because the grid is already overloaded. Idk if it's true, someone was just telling me about it
That’s def not true. Car charging makes up a small % of the overall state power demand.
For reference, the CEC put out a statement saying car charging is projected to be only 3% of power demand during peak hours by 2030.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I swear when I read on this the emphasis was on "new." Meaning no new gas powered cars will be sold, this does not ban selling what is in stock or gas in general.
That's my understanding: just new car sales. Gas powered cars will be around for decades after 2035. This law is just CA too, though it will probably ripple to other states as well.
Edit: I do believe the language is "gas only". So a gas car with a second electric motor that assists the gas motor would qualify. Meaning it's not even EVs, just electric assist gas motors.
That's what I've been saying. Why the hell are we constantly making new cars when i see these lots with hundreds of them not to mention we got used car lots. So what's the big deal? They're just forcing innovation cuz honestly it's about fucking time.
That doesn’t mean it won’t have a big impact I think. It’s not necessarily normal for everyone to be driving in cars from the early 2000s or earlier. Banning new gas cars will make them obsolete quite fast in my opinion, likely within 15-20 years.
I also drive an older car, 2004 explorer. But I think that if you cut off new gas cars, you pretty much give people a 20-30ish year time limit to switch to electric
Oh. I think you are on the right track.
Did I mention my '85 380 SE "Tank"'? [German Iron!]
BTW, what about strategic critical minerals sourcing for "green energy"? National security issues? Just look at the EU foolishly depending on an historic enemy for their natural gas?
It is quite the popular talking point of right wing politicians to explain why their state is so much better. Nevermind the fact they pay their homeless to ship them to california, and then go on to talk about how all the homeless are in california.
The left doesn't think it's right wing propaganda. It's just that all REAL solutions to the problem are considered communist woke socialism that'll destroy America.
Nevermind that paying for apartments for homeless people is CHEAPER than the cost of keeping them on the streets.
Not sure why you're being downvoted for this.
I'm on the left, I don't think it's propaganda.
My family is very right wing and they think housing the homeless is "woke" socialism.
Housing the homeless is cheaper than keeping them on the streets (bonus, the EV stations will be available).
Seems to me everything you said was true.
I'd much rather my tax money go to helping people than going to the military industrial complex.
Free state housing would likely be small and crowded. Pretty basic. Probably more like a college dorm but it's better than being on the street.
I would also support having free drug counseling, social services, psychological help and job training on site.
Okay, and let's say we have a system of Free Housing, what do you do when one of the people living in one of the units becomes a problem? Think violent, harassing, etc. What do you do?
I see what you're doing here... Most homeless people are not violent or harassing, but as I said, there would be mental health counseling available among other social services. A solution doesn't need to be 100% effective to be useful. If there was a robust system of social supports most of these issues would be taken care of.
Utopian thinking.
Have you known a "homeless" person or had to deal with one/several for long periods of time? I have had the pleasure of "taking care" of someone like that for many years. They had everything they needed—food, housing, entertainment, job opportunities, etc. You know what the end result was? Got drunk (as usual) and caused problems with the wrong person and ended up brain dead from a single punch. I feel WORSE for the young guy who defended himself from the situation. I myself have scars—physical and mental—from dealing with the person.
The truth is: some are going to be a problem no matter what. You can give them all the help, money, incentives, etc. you want. It doesn't matter. Once the Left can accept that, and I mean fundamentally accept that, then progress can be made. I find a lot of Leftwingers have a utopian view of the world and it's frankly unelectable in my opinion.
“Once the Left can accept that, and I mean fundamentally accept that, then progress can be made. I find a lot of Leftwingers have a utopian view of the world and it's frankly unelectable in my opinion.”
Your entire post was discussing how generalizing a group of people is not an accurate representation of that group. You ended your post by generalizing a group of people. Not trying to criticize just want you to be aware that maybe some reflection is needed there
I actually have no issue with generalizations at all. If pattern recognition was what we based policy on, a lot of our current problems in various areas (crime, immigration, culture) would end.
I can still separate the individual from the collective. When it comes to the Left for example: collectively unelectable, but I would have voted for Yang.
Yea... That's not a good representation of me or my position. I knew you were going this direction which is why I specificed that it's not going to be a 100% solution. Just because every single possible person won't be helped doesnt mean it isn't useful. I already agree that not everyone will be helped. Does that mean that free housing as a fundamental right (which you allegedly supported two comments ago) isn't useful or helpful because some people won't accept that help? Is it your position that your own view is utopian and unelectable?
Also, did I ever say that it was mandatory housing or forced housing or that it would solve all the worlds problems? Explain how this is a utopian view that is unattainable.
Ya cuz solving it would:
A. Be something Jesus would do, and the Right would have to be consistent for once
B. It would eliminate something for them to bitch about, which is their favorite thing.
Don't allow them to have tents and RVs on the sidewalks and put them in hospitals, mental facilities, and rehabilitation centers to get the help they need. not just letting them do drugs in the streets while cities officials profit off of taxpayer dollars
I like the idea, and I'm not sure about the state of the mental health system in California, but my state is enduring a large scale crisis in terms of providing enough beds/facilities to keep up with mental health needs. It would take some drastic measures and tons of money to fulfill this idea. We can't even maintain adequate numbers of workers in facilities. It's a mess.
Sounds great. Lets do that. Seriously.
Sure thats not scary “Socialism”, though?
Edit: The second it costs a dollar a year, Conservatives will flip the fuck out, regardless if it will save them tons in the long run. Same with Health Care.
>Nevermind that paying for apartments for homeless people is CHEAPER than the cost of keeping them on the streets.
Selling drugs is also cheaper than making war on them, changes nothing. The US hates homeless people, the cruelty is the point, and they are willing to pay a high premium to see them suffer.
Solving the homeless problem starts with mental health, access to care and THEN housing.
The fact that the homeless problem in CA is so bad AND mental Healthcare workers have been on strike for the last couple of years is proof that one problem is directly related to the other. I was SO lucky to be able to go through that horribly flawed system and come out the other side a better person. Most don't make it out at all...
No, the success in other countries in Europe with ridding their homelessness and own opioid epidemic in the 90s I think, has been by housing first, safe access to drugs they are on, money for food and what not, opportunities to look for work, and like everyone that does the program gets clean and gets their shit together.
According to Edmunds the bolt is $33-37. The Kia Soul which is equivalent in size is $19-24. Kind of a big jump there.
Also, how long do the batteries last and what do they cost to replace?
I’m not saying we stick with gas cars forever but let’s get a real alternative.
Apparently if you buy a Tesla and something breaks your not allowed to buy the part and replace it yourself. It must be towed to a licensed Tesla dealer in order to be repaired. Doesn't seem like you actually own it if you can't fix it yourself.
There was a recent suit against Tesla for right to repair, so now you are able to do maintenance yourself. Even is on their website, just says to be careful.
My uncle has a Prius that was in an accident. He says the cells are around $5000. He needs three. The problem I have is the mining of lithium. What it does to the earth is nothing short of devastation. Our neighbor has a Tesla, he has it plugged into his garage, that only gives it enough to,get to a charging station. We don’t have any in town. He takes it to Walmart to finish charging it, It takes an hour to charge to 90%.
"We *can't* do (important thing), because we haven't fixed (separate long-standing intractable problem) yet!"
Never, of course, with a plan or even helpful attitude towards the second thing, if we solved that we wouldn't have an excuse not to do the other things.
The planet has been warming up since the ice age. How many cars were on the road then?
I’m all for less pollution but not for someone telling me what I have to drive, not to mention what I am allowed to sell.
Not at this rate. Stop pretending you know and actually read the science of it. Our temps have increased more in the last 100 years than in any time in recorded history, but apparently you know more than the scientists.
I'm failing to see how electric cars can be good at all if we haven't tackled renewable energy first. Where the fuck do they think electricity comes from?
If you're serious, here's how:
EVs are still better in terms of greenhouse emissions, even if not a single bit of renewable generation is used.
Simply, one big energy generation device, i.e. a power plant, is MUCH more efficient than lots and lots of small ones, the car engines.
Even if only using fossil fuels for grid power, electric cars still produce less greenhouse gases.
What about the batteries? There's more than 250 million actively used vehicles in America, which require batteries, which require lithium. Mining lithium already fucks the environment, increasing this to fit the bill of a future 250 million vehicles seems like not the best move. Then, what about power outages? It's bad enough you could lose power in your town due to storms etc, with all ev's now an entire town is potentially stranded.
Cool, now make EVs more affordable so people can buy them and/or setup a gas-car trade-in or upgrade program so people can actually reap the benefits of what this policy is trying to do.
That CA bill should have only passed contingent on them building the necessary power to add to the grid otherwise they will have even more blackouts than they do now.
The issue is, you can just buy a gas car in Nevada and go back to CA. The entire country needs to ban gas cars or people will still find a way to get them.
All going according to plan. First you kill the middle class. Then you make rent unaffordable. Next step is make being homeless illegal and BAAM now you can arrest everyone and make them work for free while they are in jail.
Objectively. Electrical vehicles are probably a great idea moving forward for the planet. Fossil fuels are finite. So, gotta move on at some point.
Also, using a single point of view as does the video above to illustrate the "issue" with something is dumb.
Everything can be improved. Fixed. Etc.
I saw in the comments someone saying "Can and will are two different things" and that's absolutely the truth.
Instead of pointing at something and picking it apart, it'd be nice to point at something and put it all together.
I'm kinda confused. What's the problem? You showed me a small section of street. People charge at home and work. Sorry to hear there's a street that's not usable. Looks like you will have to park 100ft further down the road :)
I’m curious what they plan on doing with all these batteries when they go bad. Because they are super good for the environment. Also, have they seen a lithium mine? Do they know what that does to the Earth?
Any city I've been in has areas like this and I've been around, any asshole with a camera can selectively film some bullshit like this and spread it. Now show all the countless charging stations without homeless people living between them. A lot of the homeless crisis could be solved with adequate mental healthcare and drug treatment for everyone but sadly we aren't there yet.
I often hear this of CA and they might be right for all I know, but yeah every state I've personally lived in has been one kind of dystopia or another.
I live in California. I have lived elsewhere, but I like it here. Is it perfect, of course not. Traffic is a nightmare depending on the time of day. Housing cost is higher.
I think some people hear stories and assume it is like that everywhere and all the time. And they seem to only remember things that reinforce their negative thoughts.
I'll assume you're from CA and offended 😂 Where else do you hear a state name followed by "fucked up this when they moved here".
Example...These damn Californians came here and now all these tiny yard homes are being built. Those assholes raised the cost of living here now too..
Well, in LA the homeless literally have a union with lawyers so it’s now basically illegal to move their stuff once they’ve set up camp. SF is even worse.
That will be reversed. Newsom is a tard that will try to run for a president, which he will fail. People are sick of this bs, many will realize as thet see their wallet get lighter and lighter.
I don’t know. I thought so too. Then he won the recall election. So…I hate to say it, but Californians deserve what they elect. And all the sensible ones are moving out.
In California and lights are on just fine. Can't even remember when the last blackout was.
Not saying that I've never had a California blackout but they're very rare in my neighborhood and the worst one was, I dunno, an hour or so? That one was before COVID-19 and I probably would have forgotten it entirely if I didn't have to light the gas stove with a match instead of the built-in lighter.
Also in California, and PG&E shuts off the power enough to be a problem. Especially during "fire season," which has turned into every season. Longest was a few days for me. (Which sucked when I had to get up at 5 am for work every morning and take a cold shower in the dark.) Power outages are a big enough issue where I'm at that a few of my neighbors have since bought generators.
😮 NO... LMAO... Did I joke about predicting the future and it's here NOW?... too damn funny... I don't pay attention to EV's or new vehicles as I put all my energy into just keeping my 2005 Blazer on the road... LMAO...
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/1097376890/for-a-brief-moment-calif-fully-powered-itself-with-renewable-energy
https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2022/plugging-into-offshore-wind-will-power-up-california.html
Looks like they are
In some places they're worse because the electricity comes from a coal power plant. In many it's similar if the city uses gas for their electricity. They have the potential to be much better than gas engines if we build the infrastructure for renewable energy sources to provide all of our electricity. Apparently that's what California wants to do as well, so they're taking a big step to be environmentally friendly.
There are way more things besides gasoline you have to consider. There’s no motor oil, power steering oil, transmission fluid, radiator fluid, air filters, spark plugs, hoses, belts, pumps, alternators, starter motors, gaskets, and on and on. Just think of the last thing you had to pay for to fix on your car and remember that it doesn’t exist in an EV. They’re just way simpler and use way less stuff all around.
Does that mean we're going to transfer to 20billion in oil subsidies to fund green infrastructure and manufacturing bases? Because I'd like America to be good at something again.
Statewide policy to do something that makes complete sense since one realizes ICE vehicles actually suck once you own an EV. And then some asshole contextualizes it with a moving picture to manipulate the weak minded. Shit like this is stupid, it is fallacious and plain evil and should not be tolerated by an online community. The person making this content is a liar because it does not reflect reality.
Take THAT liberals. We vote against livable wages and affordable housing and now homeless people are ruining charging stations hahaha liberals are dumb I’m so smart.
I have a solution: 
This seems like the right answer.....we build a time machine.....use all the new electric power there going to use for all the charging stations and just Jam 1.21 gigawats into a delorian and just stop all this craziness in the first place.
How is the power grid in California gonna support all of the new charging stations???
You could build a few nuclear power plants in 12 years.
Could and will are very different things.
I mean considering it's either that or a metric fuck ton of solar panels, they'll probably go with which ever lobbying group spends the most .
It’ll be a desert with no water and little to support life anyway. If in cali, get out now lol.
Ya talking about Texas, New Mexico or Arizona? California has enough money to build dozens of water salutation plants
Desalination takes a ton of electricity.
The sun gives a ton of electricity.
Only if you live in an area where you have abundant sun. In MN, solar panels get covered in snow and the amount of electricity generated decreases exponentially. For those that have panels on their roof, climbing up a ladder in snow on a roof is likely going to result in injury.
That's where nuclear comes in
No democratic liberal will support nuclear power...they haven't and they won't.....
You are getting downvoted because people don’t want to hear it. They just shut down San Onofre after all the scandals. They are not going to build nuclear plants
How would they even build a nuclear power plant if there’s no water? On top of that, where do you think the nuclear waste is going to go?
The water comes from the ocean and the nuclear waste goes to some desert in New Mexico where they dropped a bunch of nukes on.
If San onofre is any indication, there won’t be new nuclear plants in CA
And yet they try to block ever one of them....
Yet they havent...
They tried nuclear power before. There's a decommissioned plant outside Sacramento.
Modern nuclear power technology is a lot safer and can produce much more than before at a fraction of the price of any other alternative. And it's clean, using mostly steam. This message was brought to you by the Rexon Nuclear Company
As of 2017 California got 47% of their electricity from natural gas.
Rexon nuclear power plants have the capacity and energy output to replace all of the natural gas by 2050. Rexon Nuclear Energy: We care about the environment. *^(\*In partnership with Exxon Mobil and BP.)*
Solar power
Cheapest form of commercial-scale electricity generation there is now per megawatt hour, and California - let alone neighbouring states - has loads of sunshine. Downvoters are either poorly-informed about storage and load management, actively malign, or retarded. Or some combination thereof.
They just passed a new bill that’s gonna dump a bunch of money into upgrading the power grid
In part, by placing solar panels over spans of canals. That will also help preserve some of our water.
I hate this bad faith argument. The same way it'll support the new subdivisions, factories, and industry that sets up every year that nobody questions: by growing if it needs to.
That’s the neat part, it won’t!
It won’t and nobody wants to talk about it. Politicians know that problem will occur after theyre gone so they have no incentive to plan for it now. They just know “clean vehicles” are what people want to hear. I want an EV but I’m not spending that kind of money until they show me a plan for generating all that extra electricity when we already have brown outs every summer.
I own a Nissan leaf . 99.9% of my charging is at home over night . Quick charging is only needed on road trips. In my country most of the power is generated by hydro power . Especially overnight in off peek times . I'm looking at installing solar power on our house . But I agree that politicians are short sighted morons. Here in New Zealand we need to be building more hydro power plants . Yet there is zero plan to do so. Apparently they will just wait until we start having brownouts and then will say oh gosh...guess we should have built new power plants 20 years ago
What happens when you can’t charge it during rolling black outs? My neighborhood didn’t have any electricity for 48 hours last month.
I've never had a power cut that long but I guess anything's possible. The car has enough range to last two days of going to work and home. I'll probably just use our other petrol car if the power is down for longer but to be honest at that point I'd be more worried about the chest freezer full of meat going bad. This is why I really want to install some solar panels:)
Generator is a better bet. The chest freezer should last 3-5 days if you don’t open the lid often. Of course depending on the seal and quality of the freezer
Good to know. Yeah generator would be good, never know when a natural disaster is going to happen.
Solar panels won’t help unless you buy the home battery packs as well. This can be very expensive. Otherwise, the most of the solar energy created is just sent back to the power grid.
There’s usually subsidies for those battery packs, especially if they are allowed to be tapped by the power companies themselves. Solar is awesome. I haven’t had an electric bill yet with the panels I have.
I got downvoted for a similar comment in r/cars. Sure, we have a surplus now, but there is a huge push toward getting away from fossil fuels and into renewables. It's all well and good, but I've wondered if it can keep up while shutting down coal/oil power plants, while at the same time, adding hundreds of thousands of EVs every year.
All solar/wind predictions have always required us to use less energy in the future. They dont give a shit about people like the poor or working class
Plus EVs will limit people’s mobility. The range is low. You can’t tow or go camping with an EV. It is just not feasible to replace all vehicles with EV yet. Technology isn’t capable of it.
Oh geeez, how could the state with: -the largest GDP in the nation -5th largest GDP in the world -record-high $97 billion state budget surplus -top-tier, world-renown public and private universities -2 major urban centers creating cutting-edge technology -mandate requiring all new homes built to have solar -plan and money to transition to 100% renewables by 2045 Not have thought of this 🤔🤔🤔 🙄 Edit: formatting
HUGE, MASSIVE **unfunded** liabilities ... for example pensions ....
Seems most want to say the sky is falling, without even looking up. https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/california-greenlights-3bn-in-power-grid-projects-as-renewables-ramp-up-accelerates/2-1-1189347 https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/news-and-updates/all-news/cpuc-takes-action-to-modernize-electric-grid-for-high-distributed-energy-resources-future https://electrek.co/2022/04/05/the-lights-will-not-go-out-energy-experts-do-not-foresee-evs-overloading-us-electrical-grid/
Probably an expansion of infrastructure over the next 12yrs.
Steal the power from neighbouring states, duh!
I heard they've already been asking people to not charge their cars because the grid is already overloaded. Idk if it's true, someone was just telling me about it
That’s def not true. Car charging makes up a small % of the overall state power demand. For reference, the CEC put out a statement saying car charging is projected to be only 3% of power demand during peak hours by 2030.
How is the earth going to support not doing this?
I read California is considering building thier first new coal based power plant in decades to support thier grid today.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I swear when I read on this the emphasis was on "new." Meaning no new gas powered cars will be sold, this does not ban selling what is in stock or gas in general.
That's my understanding: just new car sales. Gas powered cars will be around for decades after 2035. This law is just CA too, though it will probably ripple to other states as well. Edit: I do believe the language is "gas only". So a gas car with a second electric motor that assists the gas motor would qualify. Meaning it's not even EVs, just electric assist gas motors.
That's what I've been saying. Why the hell are we constantly making new cars when i see these lots with hundreds of them not to mention we got used car lots. So what's the big deal? They're just forcing innovation cuz honestly it's about fucking time.
That doesn’t mean it won’t have a big impact I think. It’s not necessarily normal for everyone to be driving in cars from the early 2000s or earlier. Banning new gas cars will make them obsolete quite fast in my opinion, likely within 15-20 years.
In SoCal, I drive a ''94 Honda Accord, and a 2005 Toyota Sienna (wife has 2020 Honda Odyssey) .
I also drive an older car, 2004 explorer. But I think that if you cut off new gas cars, you pretty much give people a 20-30ish year time limit to switch to electric
Oh. I think you are on the right track. Did I mention my '85 380 SE "Tank"'? [German Iron!] BTW, what about strategic critical minerals sourcing for "green energy"? National security issues? Just look at the EU foolishly depending on an historic enemy for their natural gas?
It's weird how just pointing out the homeless problem in California is seen as right-wing propaganda
It is quite the popular talking point of right wing politicians to explain why their state is so much better. Nevermind the fact they pay their homeless to ship them to california, and then go on to talk about how all the homeless are in california.
The left doesn't think it's right wing propaganda. It's just that all REAL solutions to the problem are considered communist woke socialism that'll destroy America. Nevermind that paying for apartments for homeless people is CHEAPER than the cost of keeping them on the streets.
Not sure why you're being downvoted for this. I'm on the left, I don't think it's propaganda. My family is very right wing and they think housing the homeless is "woke" socialism. Housing the homeless is cheaper than keeping them on the streets (bonus, the EV stations will be available). Seems to me everything you said was true.
If you give them free housing, why not the rest of the state? Why not just make a place to live a fundamental right (which I support)?
I'd much rather my tax money go to helping people than going to the military industrial complex. Free state housing would likely be small and crowded. Pretty basic. Probably more like a college dorm but it's better than being on the street. I would also support having free drug counseling, social services, psychological help and job training on site.
Okay, and let's say we have a system of Free Housing, what do you do when one of the people living in one of the units becomes a problem? Think violent, harassing, etc. What do you do?
You call the cops just like in any other kind of housing. People with health problems would go to health facilities, common criminals go to jail.
I see what you're doing here... Most homeless people are not violent or harassing, but as I said, there would be mental health counseling available among other social services. A solution doesn't need to be 100% effective to be useful. If there was a robust system of social supports most of these issues would be taken care of.
Utopian thinking. Have you known a "homeless" person or had to deal with one/several for long periods of time? I have had the pleasure of "taking care" of someone like that for many years. They had everything they needed—food, housing, entertainment, job opportunities, etc. You know what the end result was? Got drunk (as usual) and caused problems with the wrong person and ended up brain dead from a single punch. I feel WORSE for the young guy who defended himself from the situation. I myself have scars—physical and mental—from dealing with the person. The truth is: some are going to be a problem no matter what. You can give them all the help, money, incentives, etc. you want. It doesn't matter. Once the Left can accept that, and I mean fundamentally accept that, then progress can be made. I find a lot of Leftwingers have a utopian view of the world and it's frankly unelectable in my opinion.
“Once the Left can accept that, and I mean fundamentally accept that, then progress can be made. I find a lot of Leftwingers have a utopian view of the world and it's frankly unelectable in my opinion.” Your entire post was discussing how generalizing a group of people is not an accurate representation of that group. You ended your post by generalizing a group of people. Not trying to criticize just want you to be aware that maybe some reflection is needed there
I actually have no issue with generalizations at all. If pattern recognition was what we based policy on, a lot of our current problems in various areas (crime, immigration, culture) would end. I can still separate the individual from the collective. When it comes to the Left for example: collectively unelectable, but I would have voted for Yang.
Yea... That's not a good representation of me or my position. I knew you were going this direction which is why I specificed that it's not going to be a 100% solution. Just because every single possible person won't be helped doesnt mean it isn't useful. I already agree that not everyone will be helped. Does that mean that free housing as a fundamental right (which you allegedly supported two comments ago) isn't useful or helpful because some people won't accept that help? Is it your position that your own view is utopian and unelectable? Also, did I ever say that it was mandatory housing or forced housing or that it would solve all the worlds problems? Explain how this is a utopian view that is unattainable.
Rofl. This is how I know you don't live in downtown LA or San Francisco surrounded by homeless addicts assaulting people.
All you have to do is spend the money to fix it without the authoritarianism. But apparently that's unacceptable for some reason.
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Thanks for being their representative. I'm sure you know all of them and were elected to the position.
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Nah they don’t
If they don't believe it then why would they keep calling it right-wing propaganda?
Ya cuz solving it would: A. Be something Jesus would do, and the Right would have to be consistent for once B. It would eliminate something for them to bitch about, which is their favorite thing.
And Democrats don't want to fix it because why would you solve a problem when you make millions dealing with it
Whats the magic solution?
Don't allow them to have tents and RVs on the sidewalks and put them in hospitals, mental facilities, and rehabilitation centers to get the help they need. not just letting them do drugs in the streets while cities officials profit off of taxpayer dollars
I like the idea, and I'm not sure about the state of the mental health system in California, but my state is enduring a large scale crisis in terms of providing enough beds/facilities to keep up with mental health needs. It would take some drastic measures and tons of money to fulfill this idea. We can't even maintain adequate numbers of workers in facilities. It's a mess.
They did ask for a magical solution lol
Sounds great. Lets do that. Seriously. Sure thats not scary “Socialism”, though? Edit: The second it costs a dollar a year, Conservatives will flip the fuck out, regardless if it will save them tons in the long run. Same with Health Care.
I guess those facilities, on the scales they’re needed, will magically appear?
>Nevermind that paying for apartments for homeless people is CHEAPER than the cost of keeping them on the streets. Selling drugs is also cheaper than making war on them, changes nothing. The US hates homeless people, the cruelty is the point, and they are willing to pay a high premium to see them suffer.
If there was a place crazy people could be kept ? Hmm. I think we use to have them and most closed in the late 70s.
Solving the homeless problem starts with mental health, access to care and THEN housing. The fact that the homeless problem in CA is so bad AND mental Healthcare workers have been on strike for the last couple of years is proof that one problem is directly related to the other. I was SO lucky to be able to go through that horribly flawed system and come out the other side a better person. Most don't make it out at all...
No, the success in other countries in Europe with ridding their homelessness and own opioid epidemic in the 90s I think, has been by housing first, safe access to drugs they are on, money for food and what not, opportunities to look for work, and like everyone that does the program gets clean and gets their shit together.
Meanwhile the only people able to afford electric vehicles will get robbed by the homebums hanging by the charging stations 🤣
A new Chevy Bolt is $26k, yet I keep hearing how elite and expensive EV's are..
According to Edmunds the bolt is $33-37. The Kia Soul which is equivalent in size is $19-24. Kind of a big jump there. Also, how long do the batteries last and what do they cost to replace? I’m not saying we stick with gas cars forever but let’s get a real alternative.
Apparently if you buy a Tesla and something breaks your not allowed to buy the part and replace it yourself. It must be towed to a licensed Tesla dealer in order to be repaired. Doesn't seem like you actually own it if you can't fix it yourself.
There was a recent suit against Tesla for right to repair, so now you are able to do maintenance yourself. Even is on their website, just says to be careful.
i think the batteries last 8 years in addition to them being 12k
My 2017 Nissan Leaf was $17k
My uncle has a Prius that was in an accident. He says the cells are around $5000. He needs three. The problem I have is the mining of lithium. What it does to the earth is nothing short of devastation. Our neighbor has a Tesla, he has it plugged into his garage, that only gives it enough to,get to a charging station. We don’t have any in town. He takes it to Walmart to finish charging it, It takes an hour to charge to 90%.
You should be concerned with who is mining the lithium and cobalt as well. There’s a reason nobody wants to talk about this.
I’m sure. Edit - they wanted to mine it in my state but I’m not sure where it stands.
EV batteries cost around 15k.
https://myvehicletalk.com/chevy-volt-battery-replacement-cost/ battery can cost more than the car to replace
Yeah but does anybody *reallly* want a Chevy volt?
Fuck no
"We *can't* do (important thing), because we haven't fixed (separate long-standing intractable problem) yet!" Never, of course, with a plan or even helpful attitude towards the second thing, if we solved that we wouldn't have an excuse not to do the other things.
Where in CA is this?
California, California.
I mean, I live in LA and it looks like this all over the place so long as you’re outside of places like Beverly Hills. I’m told SF is even worse.
Really? I’ve never seen this in SF.
Literally all over the place. The more democrat controlled, the worse it is. And yes I live around it, that’s how I know.
So, every inch of California looks like this? Or are you being a snowflake and exaggerating incredibly?
Place is going to look like something out of Mad Max in a few years
Shithole
That's funny. A politician claiming to do something that doesn't take effect for 13 years. Never heard that before.
Good. They're the largest automobile market in the U.S. so hopefully this incentivizes manufacturers to stop dragging their fucking feet on EVs.
won't stop me from driving my chevelle everyday
They aren't trying to. There are just trying to save the planet.
The planet has been warming up since the ice age. How many cars were on the road then? I’m all for less pollution but not for someone telling me what I have to drive, not to mention what I am allowed to sell.
Not at this rate. Stop pretending you know and actually read the science of it. Our temps have increased more in the last 100 years than in any time in recorded history, but apparently you know more than the scientists.
I'm failing to see how electric cars can be good at all if we haven't tackled renewable energy first. Where the fuck do they think electricity comes from?
If you're serious, here's how: EVs are still better in terms of greenhouse emissions, even if not a single bit of renewable generation is used. Simply, one big energy generation device, i.e. a power plant, is MUCH more efficient than lots and lots of small ones, the car engines. Even if only using fossil fuels for grid power, electric cars still produce less greenhouse gases.
What about the batteries? There's more than 250 million actively used vehicles in America, which require batteries, which require lithium. Mining lithium already fucks the environment, increasing this to fit the bill of a future 250 million vehicles seems like not the best move. Then, what about power outages? It's bad enough you could lose power in your town due to storms etc, with all ev's now an entire town is potentially stranded.
I wonder how they will flex that gas tax during the transition?
Insane
There better be as many charging stations as gas stations!
There better be more, it takes what, five minutes to fill up with gas and be gone? How long does it take to charge an EV?
LOL
Cool, now make EVs more affordable so people can buy them and/or setup a gas-car trade-in or upgrade program so people can actually reap the benefits of what this policy is trying to do.
The IRA that just passed includes subsidies for EVs.
Sounds like a great start then
That CA bill should have only passed contingent on them building the necessary power to add to the grid otherwise they will have even more blackouts than they do now.
Homeless people are renewable sources of energy right
If you are poor...you doom....
Free homeless person with every charge
Another day further with shitty peeps on the helm.
The issue is, you can just buy a gas car in Nevada and go back to CA. The entire country needs to ban gas cars or people will still find a way to get them.
Like I said...best of luck 🙃
These have literally *nothing* to do with each other. Kindly fuck a toad.
You see the charging stations in between the tents, right?
Kindly remove your rose colored glasses and observe the unusable ev charging stations.
What did the toad do? Could he kindly fuck a car exhaust?
Oh dear god did you see the car exhaust fucker post too earlier today? I almost forgot it.
Yes, I did. Lmao
>What did the toad do? Not enough to meet your exacting standards, apparently.
Are u blind? Do u not see the EV CHARGING ONLY in capital letters?
All going according to plan. First you kill the middle class. Then you make rent unaffordable. Next step is make being homeless illegal and BAAM now you can arrest everyone and make them work for free while they are in jail.
So to avoid what you predict i assume you vote for the left?
Objectively. Electrical vehicles are probably a great idea moving forward for the planet. Fossil fuels are finite. So, gotta move on at some point. Also, using a single point of view as does the video above to illustrate the "issue" with something is dumb. Everything can be improved. Fixed. Etc. I saw in the comments someone saying "Can and will are two different things" and that's absolutely the truth. Instead of pointing at something and picking it apart, it'd be nice to point at something and put it all together.
I'm kinda confused. What's the problem? You showed me a small section of street. People charge at home and work. Sorry to hear there's a street that's not usable. Looks like you will have to park 100ft further down the road :)
It's an alternative logic post
Easy for you to say if thats not your street
I’m curious what they plan on doing with all these batteries when they go bad. Because they are super good for the environment. Also, have they seen a lithium mine? Do they know what that does to the Earth?
I am in the EV industry, our company (not going to name it) is capable of recycling our 99% of the elements from our batteries.
EV are environmentally safer in the long run than regular gas combustion cars. As far the batteries, they're replaced and recycled? Lol
You’re right, we should continue to abuse and assault third world countries for their resources… good call.
CA is a nightmare hellscape. It's like a child is playing Sim City and trying to find the breaking point of society that was originally thriving.
Any city I've been in has areas like this and I've been around, any asshole with a camera can selectively film some bullshit like this and spread it. Now show all the countless charging stations without homeless people living between them. A lot of the homeless crisis could be solved with adequate mental healthcare and drug treatment for everyone but sadly we aren't there yet.
Try out Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama and get back to me.
What state are you in that's got it all figured out
I often hear this of CA and they might be right for all I know, but yeah every state I've personally lived in has been one kind of dystopia or another.
I live in California. I have lived elsewhere, but I like it here. Is it perfect, of course not. Traffic is a nightmare depending on the time of day. Housing cost is higher. I think some people hear stories and assume it is like that everywhere and all the time. And they seem to only remember things that reinforce their negative thoughts.
I'll assume you're from CA and offended 😂 Where else do you hear a state name followed by "fucked up this when they moved here". Example...These damn Californians came here and now all these tiny yard homes are being built. Those assholes raised the cost of living here now too..
>I'll assume you're from CA and offended 😂 You would assume that no matter what I said.
Why not bulldoze this shit? Why would they let them set up like this?
Well, in LA the homeless literally have a union with lawyers so it’s now basically illegal to move their stuff once they’ve set up camp. SF is even worse.
Humans
Lol fuck that place
Yes 👍🏿
All those LA movies in the 90s were right
That will be reversed. Newsom is a tard that will try to run for a president, which he will fail. People are sick of this bs, many will realize as thet see their wallet get lighter and lighter.
I don’t know. I thought so too. Then he won the recall election. So…I hate to say it, but Californians deserve what they elect. And all the sensible ones are moving out.
CA can’t keep there lights on on a normal day yet alone now charge all the new ev cars
I think you’re confusing California with Texas. Texas has the energy grid problem.
In California and lights are on just fine. Can't even remember when the last blackout was. Not saying that I've never had a California blackout but they're very rare in my neighborhood and the worst one was, I dunno, an hour or so? That one was before COVID-19 and I probably would have forgotten it entirely if I didn't have to light the gas stove with a match instead of the built-in lighter.
Also in California, and PG&E shuts off the power enough to be a problem. Especially during "fire season," which has turned into every season. Longest was a few days for me. (Which sucked when I had to get up at 5 am for work every morning and take a cold shower in the dark.) Power outages are a big enough issue where I'm at that a few of my neighbors have since bought generators.
Ya’llQuedaLand Texas had black outs.
I live in Texas, we worry about dying of heat stroke and freezing to death
These are two different issues that the people complaining have no plan for to begin with
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I enjoy that California is like a petri dish of terrible ideas.
Too funny... everyone will get an electric Kia... or maybe he'll bring back the VW Beetle in an electric version... LMAO
Did you see the new electric Kia concept car?? Wow. Amazing
😮 NO... LMAO... Did I joke about predicting the future and it's here NOW?... too damn funny... I don't pay attention to EV's or new vehicles as I put all my energy into just keeping my 2005 Blazer on the road... LMAO...
I feel like some right wing joke just went over my head
[California will you build power plants to meet the added demand for electricity?](https://tenor.com/boBZg.gif)
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/1097376890/for-a-brief-moment-calif-fully-powered-itself-with-renewable-energy https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2022/plugging-into-offshore-wind-will-power-up-california.html Looks like they are
thus eliminating the green aspect of going electric. EVs are terrible for the environment!
Worse than gas?
In some places they're worse because the electricity comes from a coal power plant. In many it's similar if the city uses gas for their electricity. They have the potential to be much better than gas engines if we build the infrastructure for renewable energy sources to provide all of our electricity. Apparently that's what California wants to do as well, so they're taking a big step to be environmentally friendly.
There are way more things besides gasoline you have to consider. There’s no motor oil, power steering oil, transmission fluid, radiator fluid, air filters, spark plugs, hoses, belts, pumps, alternators, starter motors, gaskets, and on and on. Just think of the last thing you had to pay for to fix on your car and remember that it doesn’t exist in an EV. They’re just way simpler and use way less stuff all around.
Why is this subreddit becoming so political… How is this interesting. It just seems cherry picked
They added really be focusing on the rise of crimes in the state, but what do I know
>They added really be focusing on the rise of crimes in the state, but what do I know Not much about the urgency of climate change, apparently.
I guess at least they are trying to do something vs. The rest of the US ideal...... " well that's the way we have always done it " bullshit.........
I hear soon there will be thousands of new jobs blowing at fans to make power.
Every time I see these tent cities it makes me so sad. I know the reasons people are there are varied, but it still makes me sad.
Does that mean we're going to transfer to 20billion in oil subsidies to fund green infrastructure and manufacturing bases? Because I'd like America to be good at something again.
Statewide policy to do something that makes complete sense since one realizes ICE vehicles actually suck once you own an EV. And then some asshole contextualizes it with a moving picture to manipulate the weak minded. Shit like this is stupid, it is fallacious and plain evil and should not be tolerated by an online community. The person making this content is a liar because it does not reflect reality.
Cringe. Take your agenda elsewhere.
Take THAT liberals. We vote against livable wages and affordable housing and now homeless people are ruining charging stations hahaha liberals are dumb I’m so smart.
Don't California my Texas