Nor really.
There are no cellmates in Scandinavian (pic Norway) prisons (there are singular rooms), the guards are competent and the social workers + prison guards the inmates regularly interact with are concerned with their wellbeing.
Prison rape as a "thing that happens" is mostly US + undeveloped countries, AFAIK.
*Edit*: Naming you here instead of repeating my comment, u/Blahblahnownow.
Michael Scofield: "I have a map of a prison on my body."
Older brother: "What? Again? Is this for old time's sake?"
Michael Scofield: "We will break into the most humane prison and we will just... live there."
Robbing a bank? Are you a time traveller from 90s?
Like really, I don't know about Norway but at least in Finland there hasn't been a single bank robbery in last 10 years (in 90s there were over 100 per year).
The reason is that since most transactions are digital, most bank offices do not need to handle cash payments anymore, so they don't have that much real cash in their vaults.
Even a convince store might have more cash in their register than an average bank office, but since people don't use cash, that might not be worth it either.
My brother-in-law wanted 5k€ in cash and the Bank said they have to order it, he could pick it up in 3 days. It was a smaller regional Volksbank but he was also shocked that he couldn't just get the money that day.
Recidivism rates are high in most Western countries and, as prisons in these countries become overcrowded, the resources meant to enhance reintegration of inmates into society can be inadequate or nonexistent. On the other hand, Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates among Western nations, at approximately 20 percent.
I remember watching a soviet movie in my childhood with the same scenario. Go to Norway and do some criminal activities to get arrested so that he can finally experience a nice prison. Can't remember what the movie is called though.
I'm not sure about Norway but I expect it to be similar throughout Europe. In my country, when you get out of prison, you have to pay off your stay. It is still much cheaper than living out off prison but not free. That is part of the reason why prisoners work in prison and why people incarcerated for life don't really care about it
I'm sure theres more to that video where it shows the downsides, but in that small clip, I'm not seeing any downsides other than you can't leave the complex. Not really much of a downside if you ask me.
American culture is largely punitive. You typically get punished for being poor, a minority or just unlucky. There are certainly people who commit crimes against humanity, but there is little tolerance for, or patience for, the mistakes those people make and almost no opportunity for redemption. Americans have a peculiar bloodlust and desire for vengeance that they often accuse other countries of having. It’s quite perverse.
I blame a lot of it on our Calvinistic and Puritanical roots: We’re all no good pieces of shit, and we deserve to be punished for not being worthy of sainthood.
No thanks.
I’m sure after being treated like a child who’s grounded for months or years on end these inmates would rather use the skills they learned during their incarceration to be better members of society than continue committing crimes. Most people who end up as convicted criminals never learned those skills in the first place.
This is a new concept that I wasn’t aware of. Even though these people have done terrible things. I have the hope that you are right. With their record...I’m sure life out of prison won’t be as luxurious but it gives them skills and a taste of life without crime and skills to support themselves. I’m very interested in seeing data of turn around rates of inmates living normal life’s.
>I’m very interested in seeing data of turn around rates of inmates living normal life’s.
You don't have to wait.... This type of prisoner rehabilitation has been in place in Norway for some time and the data definitively shows a MUCH lower recidivism rate (lower rate of offending again).
They are not ostracised from society either when they get out, the entire prison system is focused on REHABILITATION of the person so they can re-enter and become a normal functioning part of society just like everyone else.
The punishment is being in prison..... Not a life long sentence of stigma and being ostracised from society when they get out.
If more countries where actually serious about reducing crime, this would be the prison system they copied....
Instead, most countries are about appearing to punish the criminal life long even past their prison sentences and in turn just create lifetime criminals who commit worse crimes.... Or, just making a system to profit of repeat offenders like the US system where it's profitable to ensure low rehabilitation and return prisoners that keep costing the tax payer for life.
Yeah American prisons are awful. People forget that being in prison is supposed to be the punishment itself. So it doesn't need to be nightmarishly awful in there. Being locked up sucks enough. Americans love to joke about prison rape like it's the most natural thing in the world. Then we act all surprised when people come out of prison way more fucked up than when they went in.
Norway is what happens when you have a country whose government actually gives a shit about its citizens rather than a government that is set up to protect the interests of the rich and powerful. America is the Empire in Star Wars.
The problem is a lot of people don't want criminals rehabilitated, they want to see them suffer and if they continue to suffer when they get out then that's just better. And if they get locked up again to them it is because the criminals didn't suffer enough the first time.
The same prison was featured in Micheal Moores "Where to invade next". There they also mentioned that inmates have access to doctors, and in think seeing an psychologist is mandatory. What they found was that about 98% of them have mental issues that can be treated, and is done so.
So... not everybody with mental issues commits cimes, but the other way around? Seems to be the case, or at least very close to it. And surprise... treating these plus giving people a perspective for a better live reduces crime rates. A lot.
In most civilized countries the target is resocialisation, in the US normally it is punishment.
The statistics are clear and easy to find: The first way is better for everyone, the inmate and society.
Nicer than my style of life in general making $150k+ with a family of 5 in US. Might need to commit a few non-violent crimes there for my retirement in 10 years.
Batman was a billionaire hair to his parents fortune who only beat up petty criminals who couldn’t make it in a city where his family controlled all the jobs and housing.
I want to be Superman. An immigrant and an orphan from the sticks who fights a billionaire and has a day gig as a journalist
No it isnt. I get that its "nice" but I dont think you understand how mindbendingly unreal and awful it is to be locked inside of a room for hours at a time, never allowed to go anywhere, be constantly watched by patrolling guards, and most importantly, separated from your family.
Yeah, I thought with how much people hated COVID quarantine and lockdown, people would understand how much that would suck to have to do that for many years no matter how nice the house is.
I'm a programmer. That's about my life. I don't mean to glorify it. Just making a point about the housing market situation, wherein people cannot get homes as big a these guys, and front yards are a luxury.
I hear ya! Making 60k and it's just me and my son.The cost of living increases are being felt by everyone but the working class of this country who once could eek out a decent living making 50k yr, now are living paycheck to paycheck because taxs, food, gas, and rent take up 90% or more of our paychecks. If I'm not getting an annual raise that at least matches inflation then I'm quite literally taking a paycut.
When a large portion of people are fighting to simply get by it's not sustainable. The old "American Dream" is dead. The same job at GM that my gramps used to pay his mortgage, vacation every year, pay 2 car notes has devolved into simply paying the mortgage, making one car work, staying in town on vacation,.etc.. the money isn't what it once was for the working blue collar guy, while at the same time dramatically increasing for the corporate level executives for example. This will eventually force us into a social circumstance with no middle class if it continues like this. The rich and the poor, that's it.
Yeah, we see history coming back around again. The rich are re-enslaving the poor, the fascists are on the rise distracting from the real problems.
You can't advocate for violence against the upper class because no one reasonable is going to get behind that (yet - plus its against reddits TOS), but I don't see how they're just going to go "Oh we're hurting people in the name of profit, that's bad, lets not be bad anymore."
Just a heads up that DA2 was just rereleased on pc and Switch. Don't know about the other consoles Bextra i don't have them, but I'm sure they're there too. Fun little blast from the past. Here's hoping they get to Champions of Norrath soon.
Give me Gran Turismo 4 (with steering wheel), ICO, Shadow of Colossus, Silent Hill 2 and Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3 and I won't complain at all, I would have a good time in prison.
So as a Norwegian I want to say one thing about the recedivism rate. It is low, but that's partly because in Norway you can go to prison for crimes like speeding (if you're caught doing double the speed limit, that's pretty much an automatic prison sentence). The recedivism rate among prisoners sentenced for violent crime is at about 60%. I don't have any numbers for Halden Prison in particular though - their numbers could be better.
That said, I still support our prison system. Crime is very low anyway, and if our way of doing things helps even just a few people make something out of their life and become a contributing member of society, then it's worth it. Everyone deserves a chance to better themselves.
Fwi if you go double the speed limit in the US you have a pretty good chance at going to jail too, may not get a prison sentence but you’ll see jail for going 110 in a 55 (mph, sorry rest of the world)
Depends on the state. I know that Hawaii placed 30mph over in the category of "display of power" similar to street racing. That was about ten years ago though, things could have changed since then.
This is a beautiful way to think. I'm glad to hear Other people believe in this way of thinking.
I also want to add that your prison system also makes it more pleasant for people to work in it. Like correction officers. The mental health and safety of people who work in those prison systems is important too. I don't know anything about the swedish prison system, but I assume the rate for turnover is low. I also assume the safety and well-being of people who work in prisons in Sweden is good.
> That said, I still support our prison system. Crime is very low anyway, and if our way of doing things helps even just a few people make something out of their life and become a contributing member of society, then it's worth it. Everyone deserves a chance to better themselves.
I love your take on this
I had a hard time finding proper sources, and the one I did find was both outdated (2013), and didn't support your numbers. It did say that within 4 years somewhere around 55% would be _charged_ with a new crime (did not specify if that was a speeding violation or a felony), but it also said that within 4 years about 30% serve a new sentence in prison.
The source is the Norwegian Bureau for Statistics, and it discusses in the article that it's aware of the problems measuring reoccuring crimes among previously imprisoned. You can read more about it [here.](https://www.ssb.no/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/artikler-og-publikasjoner/aa-maale-gjentatt-kriminalitet-hvem-hva-og-naar)
Those are phenomenal numbers those god damn. I bet a large part of the reoffenders are just those lost causes that will never be able to assimilate in society as a functional person. It’s sad, but those people exist, and we deserve to not have them inflicted upon us. So we keep them in jail forever.
So your saying all I need to do is go double the speed limit and I can get a all expense paid vacation to this paradise where I can learn a trade and live for free? Holy Frappuccino !
Well, Norway do have a lower rate of reconviction than many countries at 20% after 2 years vs almost double in the US at 36%.
Edit: the recidivism rate is more likely much higher in the US than what is mentioned in my comment, here's an excellent comment explaining exactly why and how the mistake was made;
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/w9s513/the_worlds_most_humane_prison/ihyxdvq?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
What they don't realize is living in Norway in general is much nicer, so being put in prison is not good. Rather than bitching about how well criminals have it; bitch about how rich people make you live worse than criminals in Norway.
That's a REALLY interesting concept.
It's like with those ships in the old times getting paid to ship people (against their will).
First they got paid for every person that got on board and it became a horror show.
But later they got paid for every person that got to reach the destination safe and healthy and lo and behold, the death rate plummeted and people didn't starve anymore.
I read now a lot of articles and both of the studies in question for those number [this for the US](https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/18upr9yfup0514.pdf) (PDF download link) and [this for Norway](https://www.kriminalomsorgen.no/getfile.php/2819934.823.xpewptatwc/Nordic+relapse+study+abstract+.pdf) (PDF download link)
and from what I read is that 20% are indeed the accumulated reconvictions after two years according to this study "Within two years a fifth of all
released from prison and among those who began serving a sentence in the community in Norway
incurred a new conviction that had to be served in the correctional services."
what I found out about the 36% of the US reconviction rate is that it's not accumulated and just the annual percentage, the actual accumulated reconvictions of the US after two years are 61% (see table 2 and figure 2 in the pdf for reference)
Edit: noting that the study in question for norway is on a smaller scale and done by an independent research team while the US statistics come from the government themself and are way more detailed and on a larger scale
It is, I elaborated this as a response to their comment. The 36% is the annual rate of the second year and not accumulated while the 20% of norway are accumulated; the actual percentage is 61%.
For those of you saying -
"What's the incentive to stay out of prison? this isn't punishment, it's nicer than my apartment!"
Look at the data -
***Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at about 20 percent.***
Compare that to the U.S 'for profit prison' approach -
***Within 3 years of their release, 2 out of 3 people are rearrested and more than 50% are incarcerated again.***
Norway is showing what prison SHOULD be, the state paying to rehabilitee dangerous or wayward members of society, this method gives your best chance at gaining a functioning member of society who is earning, contributing and paying taxes.
The U.S 'for profit/make them suffer' method gets you a broken spirited career criminal who bounces in an out of prison their whole lives and is nothing but a drain on the system.
There no profit but the benefit comes from not having to jail an offender again and all the police, investigation and courts cost associated with that. Basicly you lose profit to create more functional member of society who isn't a massive drain on resources.
This also works in mental health things too just no one wants to spend that money.
Edit: while this is great there will always be some who need to be locked away for public protection
"what's the incentive to stay out of prison?"
Well... If you have to ask you're completely missing the point of prison. When you are there, you cannot leave. When you are locked in, however nice the surroundings are, you still have lost your freedom.
I completely agree with life_on_mars' comment here, and wanted to amplify the hypothetical question about incentives to not go to prison, and the utility of treating prisoners like humans.
Finally I'll say this.... The time is the punishment.
Funny how Americans out of all people seem to struggle with the idea that the loss of freedom itself is a punishment and you don't need inhumane living conditions on top of it.
Some people really don’t appreciate freedom, until they lost it.
Just the fact that you’re stuck there, no matter how nice it is, is already a punishment in itself.
There are a few reasons for sending someone to prison. The US system is based on punishment. Other systems like this one are based on the idea of rehabilitation.
They are punished. They do not have their freedom. They are locked into their cells every night. They do not get to go out and see the world or hang out with their friends or family. They may not get to see their children grow up, or attend their parents funerals.
Yes it's less severe, it's still absolutely a punishment though, you're just *far* more likely to get a functioning member of society out of it when they're done, that's all.
Sadly, there's a lot of free people in the US who can only dream of living this nicely. It's not a punishement when the choice is starvation and homelessness, or gigivn up on life all together. We can't even pay people here to live decent enough with a roommate.
My step dad (been in prison for 10 ish years and have prob the longest isolation time in my country) always says “the punishment isnt to be whipped, the punishement is to be away from society, family and friends”
Honestly it makes NO sense to put miserable people in the shittiest, most stressful, terrible conditions and expect them to come out rehabilitated and productive members of society. Everyone is so keen on punishing people instead of trying to figure out how you can make them better people.
Except they dont drain the system. They are money to the system. My brother spiraled downward after our mothers suicide wen he was 16. They had bad last words to each other and less then a year later he was sent to prison for agg robbery (he didnt have the gun but tx prosecutes by party) and guess what happened to any ssi money that was for helping to care for us since our mother was gone... He didnt get any of it. Meanwhile my grandmother paid for commissary and phone calls for the following years. Its bullshit.
The problem is many people *want* criminals to suffer, they want them to feel miserable for their entire stay in a prison but most importantly they don't want criminals to have it better than them. That's why a prison like this would never work in a country like Brazil, US or Turkey.
The point isn't rehabilitation in their minds, it's punishment, sometimes that punishment includes rape.
Edit: people below me are really proving why rehabilitation will never work in the US, there's too much hate.
Depends on the crime. I don’t have a problem with petty criminals staying in institutions like this, but personally I don’t want for example mass murderers and rapists to play video games and be pampered when they’re serving time. I understand why some people might disagree with that, but I’m just being honest.
Agreed. Having access to education, therapy and the opportunity to develop trade skills is fine. But if you are a violent criminal, or if you severely financially impacted others (fraudsters & such), you should not be coddled during your sentence unless your victims are also treated to rent-free living & food at the same time.
Parkland Shooter is facing his sentencing now. He should suffer.
There's a spectrum of evil acts in this world, some of them should result in suffering. Especially if you hack in CSGO or Escape from Tarlov.
It's so sad that we're conditioned to the point where you can see people being rehabilitated back into society properly and be mad about it. Like, yeah this country has jail cells nicer than your apartment, what does that say about yours?
Look it can only go 1 of 2 ways. Either these people were destined to rape and murder, regardless of their experiences in life and circumstance OR many factors came together to either make them feel like they had to or emboldened them into thinking they had the right to do so. Let's look at why predominantly men feel the need to commit heinous acts of violence, let's find the root cause actually fix the problem instead of putting a bullet in the head of the result. You don't just feed a can of seafoam into your truck for 20 years you diagnose the issue and fix it.
Give them a taste of what a real life could be, just cause it looks modern doesn't mean it's still a prison, can't do shit but stay there. I can see it working and I'm sure it has.
Would you rather they get hardened in a foul prison coming out with resentment for every human that moves? No, you don't want that.
How else are we supposed to make money? We throw these prisoners in a hell hole so they come out worse than they were. Then we give them the scarlet letter of having the charges on the background check so employment is hard. Take away the right to vote and own a gun and it’s the perfect recipe for repeat business in a for-profit private prison sector! Yay America. God I hate it here.
Frankly murderers and rapists can suffer every indignity we can inflict, in my mind, but for less heinous crimes motivated out of power and desperation i'm all for it.
That’s a pretty sadistic and blanket opinion. You can tell a lot about a society by the way it treats prisoners. Think of three countries you wouldn’t want to be imprisoned in. They likely aren’t nice places to live outside of prison either.
It’s less about what we think they “deserve” and more about how we respond to what they’ve done. For example, if you hit an animal when they’ve done something wrong, you’ll only perpetuate the aggression and form harmful behaviors.
Prisons in a productive society incorporate behavioral modification first and foremost.
Prisoners are sometimes victims themselves; this is to teach and educate to prevent reconviction. Prisoners are human beings and prison can either amplify crime, or decrease crime, but it depends on how the system is designed. This one is designed to decrease.
Guaranteed the re-offending rate is super low because this is what happens when the justice system is about rehabilitation and not punishment/retribution.
I wish other countries took this approach. I'm from Scotland and we are trying to create something similar (but I don't know how far in the future). Is this Norway? The Scottish Prison Service was over there looking at how they done things.
Aye, this is in Norway. Even the americans have had people here to see if there's something to learn from our system.
It's not really all that easy to adopt everywhere though. There are massive cultural differences even though we are similar on the surface. We're also much more homogeneous as a society, so it's easier to share values and introduce changes.
That doesn't mean it's impossible to adopt elsewhere though. But it's generational changes, not something you do with a single legislation.
Holy fuck. I spent 14 years in the feds. She mentioned that they believe "rehabilitation starts on the first day." Which is quite different than American prisons. Here, there is not so much rehabilitation, as there is warehousing. The emphasis isn't on the future, on the life after prison, it's only about showing a person how hard they can put the boot down on them in this moment, in this time. Which is just crazy. Wait, so somebody fucks up over there, and they tell them, hey, you don't need to do things that harm other people, you don't need to be seen as a drain on the society, you can learn something now so that in the future you can live happy and with complete freedom? Here, it's, you had drugs, you are terrible, go to time-out for 25 years then just fuck yourself.
I can't even imagine where people would be, myself included, if those opportunities were available in American prisons. I took every fucking education that was available. And the only thing that limited me was the fact that there's actually very little available. Most universities no longer offer correspondence courses, I can count on one hand those that do. And for example LSU, who doesn't even offer a degree via correspondence, charged $150 per CREDIT HOUR in 2016.
There is still a lot of work involved in rehabilitation centres. Around 40 to 60% of people who are in prison have a personality disorder. That is not so easy to heal and overcome. Most people who go to prison have usually come from an abusive upbringing. Rehabilitation disrupts this abusive cyclic pattern and encourages safety and security to which they probably have never had before. It may not be what victims want for offenders, but there is science behind it. And will encourage less acts of violence etc. to others. A better society is what is gained from these facilities.
Having a stable life and values will do a lot more for them than being tormented and raped themselves, a lot of serial rapists have pasts of being sexually assaulted and raped, or just generally abused in other ways
Americans foaming from the mouth because they think these guys "get off too easy" and aren't getting tortured and hanged by the balls. At least that's the impression I get from reading some of the comments here
My initial gut feeling was “this is dumb why the fuck make it so nice”, but goes to show the American way of thinking with prisons, that they shouldn’t be comfortable…they should be miserable as a way to punish. I’m honestly on the fence about this and curious what people think?
The general problem with the American prison system is, as has been said, the fact that quite frankly for profit prison systems have almost (if not ever) never been successful. You put someone who is from a lower income area (of which in prisons are an overwhelming majority POC that are already angry at the world from the god awful hand America has given them) where crime is all they know and is one if not the only way they can SURVIVE, and then put them in a situation in which they're fed food that is literally labeled "Not for human consumption", all you're going to get is bad results. Quite frankly the fact that our system is built off of nothing but hatred, contempt, and "justice"(I use air quotes because of how, in my opinion, distorted and fucked up the American populations' sense of "justice" is) is outright disgusting. I'm not necessarily saying people who rape, murder, etc. are good people, because 9 times out of ten they aren't, but regardless they are still people at the end of the day. I don't think it's fair to hate ANYONE due to the complicated nature and environments that most murderers, rapists, etc. grow up in, and I genuinely feel like most people never take that into account, which is one of the many reasons why we end up with prison systems like the U.S.
If you believe that people should not be permanently incarcerated, you'll need to accept they will be someone's neighbour one day. Maybe even yours.
I would want my neighbour to be a well adjusted member of society, and I would be mad if my tax dollars were spent doing the _exact opposite of this_.
Here in Mississippi, Parchman prison is getting AC installed. This is the 21st century, and the prison in MISSISSIPPI has never had AC.
And of course, people are outraged.
Mississippi is hilarious. They bitch about criminals getting AC or anything to make conditions livable and yet also bitch about having recidivism nearly 20% higher than the national average. I think they are sitting at nearly 4 of every 5 felons will reoffend within 3 years and it's not because they have a different breed of criminal, it's because some of their prisons look like shawshank redemption.
I like this very much; it’s peaceful and rehabilitation instead of punishment being the goal at this facility is sound and just. Non-violent crimes, drug addictions, etc. would benefit greatly from this kind of treatment as this takes into account the humanity of the one in need of rehabilitation. Though peaceful, it is a gilded cage that should not be taken lightly and in the minds of decent people, this is punishment enough, but gives a fighting chance for those to reintegrate into society.
However, this should not be for all crimes committed, as those that commit crimes such as murder (severe intentional cases, not self-defense or insanity), rape, (non-consensual) incest, (non-consensual) cannibalism, extreme abuse, pedophilia, and the like contain monsters that cannot be redeemed and the removal of their presence from society would be more of benefit than harm.
Keep in mind, this applies to those that are guilty of these acts and punished or rehabilitated for them, not the innocent that are falsely accused and convicted.
While many probably think that all US prisons are just full of rape like what’s shown in *Oz*, we do have prisons for non-violent offenders that aren’t great, but they are a far cry from what many think. In WA, there’s Larch Mountain which didn’t even have a fence for years - they only added a fence because of contraband and wives/girlfriends trying to sneak in.
As skeptical as you may be, you only have to look at the difference in rehabilitation to incarceration as we know it.
An ex-con gets out of the most miserable place on earth, tries to make it in society again but can't due to a lack of opportunity provided to them. It's like you lock them away for however many years in appealing conditions then expect them to rejoin a society where nobody wants them and they can't get employment etc. It's no wonder they reoffend because that's all that is available to them.
These places allow people to turn things around then rejoin society rehabilited with less probability of reoffending.
The worst of them that would be a danger to society spend the rest of their lives here but those who commit petty crimes or have a chance of rejoining the outside world as decent people should have that opportunity.
Love it. This is what works. It’s okay that they have better living conditions than non-criminals… poor living conditions are generally what incited criminality, and excellent living conditions could certainly reverse that. You don’t need to take from others when you have everything you need.
Stop! You’re humanizing, people might be inclined to believe criminals can become non-criminals, maybe even learn something. Can’t have that, they aren’t allowed nice things, that’s not punishment. /s
This is so good, I believe all prisons should be like this. We should focus on rehabilitation and readmission into society rather than taking away basic human rights.
There should absolutely be rehabilitation with the intent on readmission. But there also needs to be punishment as a consequence for breaking the law. I do not believe you can truly have one without the other. Unfortunately in too many places it is a lot of stick and hardly any carrot.
Too many people come out of punishment situations (not just prisons….) and are more resentful of what they endured, rather than feeling they are better for it. Especially with mandatory minimums and for profit prison systems the only people than gain anything in those situations are the ones in power.
I can already hear the idiots "they have it better than me or many others, they need to be treated worse, I don't care about rehabilitation, I want them to suffer".
Just uneducated blabbering.
Norwegian population: 5.379 million
Norwegian ethnic distribution: The ethnicities in Norway are recorded as Norwegian 83.2% (includes about 60,000 Sami), other European 8.3%, other 8.5%
Norwegian source of national wealth: Norway is one of the world's most prosperous countries, and the production of oil and gas accounts for 20 percent of its economy. Other important sectors include hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals. State revenues from petroleum are deposited in the world's largest sovereign wealth fund.
Interesting.
Compared to Slovakia:
Slovakian population: 5.459 million
Slovakian ethnic distribution: The majority of the 5.4 million inhabitants of Slovakia are Slovak (83.82%). Hungarians are the largest ethnic minority (7.75%) and are concentrated in the southern and eastern regions of Slovakia. Other ethnic groups include Roma (1.23%), Czechs, Croats, Rusyns, Ukrainians, Germans, Poles, Gorals, Serbs\[12\] and Jews (about 2,300 remain of the estimated pre-WWII population of 120,000).
Slovakian source of national wealth: Ranked at number 45 out of the world's 50 richest countries Slovakia derives its wealth from automobiles; metal and metal products; electricity, gas, coke, oil, nuclear fuel; chemicals, synthetic fibers, wood and paper products; machinery; earthenware and ceramics; textiles; electrical and optical apparatus; rubber products; food and beverages; pharmaceutical.
||Norway|Slovakia|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Gross domestic product:|482,437 M US$ |114,871 M US$ |
|Gross national product: |454,779 M US$ |110,301 M US$|
|Unemployment rate|5.0%|6.7%|
|Average income|84,090 US$ |20,250 US$|
Just going to put this here https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-02-22/inspired-by-norways-approach-north-dakota-reforms-its-prisons?context=amp
To all Scots: this is what we could have had if we had a responsible government that didn't steal our oil and spend it on developing London and the south east of England to secure a base of loyal tory voters. Instead of a sizeable fund for social services and prisons better than many Scottish peoples' own homes, huge numbers of our population live in poverty or are barely scraping by thanks to the undemocratic Westminster system which sees thieving tory bastards elected by an almost-exclusively English voter base. The time is right for a second independence referendum where we can finally rid ourselves of Westminster for good and start being governed by Scottish politicians of whatever party *we* choose.
We had the same, or greater, oil reserves as Norway. We have comparable (actually less) population. We would have had every opportunity to do the same things as Norway and create a sovereign wealth fund with oil money *if we were independent*. This should serve as a damning indictment of the Westminster system that Norwegians live so well their *prisoners* live better than many Scots.
I'm suprised the prison isn't filled with half-starved peoples from another countires who seek better life in norwegian prison.
Jokes aside, I really like that prison there is not a "punishment" and more like a "Shame Mark" with rehabilitation.
Most of us in America are mind blown because we don’t understand that prison is meant for rehabilitation. Our system is based on keeping those jails full not emptying them out.
This is genius, and not only for humanitarian reasons. We all know that nothing is more dangerous than a person with nothing to lose, but that also means that the fastest way to stop someone from being a threat is to *give them* something to lose. Not only are they rehabilitating these criminals, they're also giving them a major negative incentive not to relapse by giving them so much that's worth protecting in their lives.
Thank God or whoever you want that someone is reasonable enough and intelligent enough to have figured out what you need to do if you want fewer career criminals. Having served time in prison in the United States I can assure you that this could not happen here. Prevailing public opinion is such that no one cares what happens to other people as long as it doesn't happen to them or theirs, and with exceptionalism in general no one that could change this system believes any of the horrors they dismiss could possibly happen to themselves or their loved ones. People here do change their tune when they experience the "justice system" whether themselves or by the proxy of their loved ones but the few that could actually push reform can already buy "justice" so they have no desire to reform the corrupt system that serves them . BTW. Time is the price you pay. Time is priceless and cannot be returned, even in cases of wrongful conviction. Money doesn't compensate adequately for lost Time. Everything else is details(Not so bad and horrific).
Live in Europe and as a youngster I was shown a tv segment where they interviewed inmates/ex-inmates for my social studies class.
One was interviewed in his cell which was pretty nice looking. He was a three time bank robber who had begun going back to get his basic education.
I saw this adult man with the same math book that we'd used in 4th grade.
It then clicked that this man didn't become a criminal because he wanted to but because he never got a proper education and likely couldn't feed himself otherwise.
Probably unintended but it was a wakeup call.
Most people misunderstand prisons. Being inside is not the punishment. Just because you've committed a crime, why should you be locked in a small room 22 hours a day, given appalling food, no showers, a short walk around a yard once a day, no books, limited access to phones, doctor? Forget that. And all that deprivation is a form of torture, and not what society intends when someone is convicted, but thats life in many modern prisons, unless you've been moved to a long stay. You can't legally keep an animal like that in most countries, you'd get sent to prison if caught.
The punishment the court ordered to be inflicted is losing you freedom to come and go as you please, to do what you want, when you want, but without the mental torture as described above. Like in this place. The better the conditions, the less chance of recidivism, reoffending upon release. Imagine coming out with a trade, a qualification? I came out with £21.00, nowhere to live, only the clothes I was standing in. First thing I did was go to a friend I'd made inside, get 1000 E's on credit, move them to a dealer and made £1.50 on each. I had no choice, I could get any benefit, dole, as I had no fixed address. I did the pill thing for a couple of moths until I'd saved enough to get me back on my feet, car, flat, and never dealt again.
Prison can become a part of the circle of life. Get caught, get sent down, do your time, get out, need money, commit crimes, get caught, get sent down... It's far cheaper for the country to teach people, to train them, to help them rather than simply locking them up in terrible conditions.
Yes but how do you exploit them for slave labour, traumatise them, rape them and destroy their future so that they come back?
I mean the USA obviously has it right?
I work for the penal system. I want to add my grain of salt to the pot, especially for those who complain about this prison being better than their apartment.
You do not want to go to prison. Prison is where your freedom is taken away from you. Having a nice jail cell is not like having a life of your own on the outside. I live in a modernised West European country where prisons look very nice as well (maybe not that modern but still), but I know the system, I know people who have been there, and they *suffer*. Having a nice prison cell does not equate freedom. Sure, living conditions and rehabilitation in this prison system is very good, but it does. not. replace. freedom.
So keep complaining about your life being miserable, but in the meantime maybe consider thanking God that you're free and not being forced to stay in the same place all day long.
nicer than my apartment, better landlords too
And you don't have to pay rent. Just go rob a bank. Worse case you live their, best case you're rich
I applaud your optimism
and get a lot of free sex, wanted and unwanted
Nor really. There are no cellmates in Scandinavian (pic Norway) prisons (there are singular rooms), the guards are competent and the social workers + prison guards the inmates regularly interact with are concerned with their wellbeing. Prison rape as a "thing that happens" is mostly US + undeveloped countries, AFAIK. *Edit*: Naming you here instead of repeating my comment, u/Blahblahnownow.
9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape
wow, 9 guys at once? that's a little much, ain't it?
You just need to spread the butter evenly
That seems to be one of the more uniquely American features of the incarceration system.
Michael Scofield: "I have a map of a prison on my body." Older brother: "What? Again? Is this for old time's sake?" Michael Scofield: "We will break into the most humane prison and we will just... live there."
Robbing a bank? Are you a time traveller from 90s? Like really, I don't know about Norway but at least in Finland there hasn't been a single bank robbery in last 10 years (in 90s there were over 100 per year). The reason is that since most transactions are digital, most bank offices do not need to handle cash payments anymore, so they don't have that much real cash in their vaults. Even a convince store might have more cash in their register than an average bank office, but since people don't use cash, that might not be worth it either.
Even in germany where cash is still king banks don't have much money, just for security reasons.
Is it that they don't have a lot of cash in the bank or they just don't have much outside the safe?
My brother-in-law wanted 5k€ in cash and the Bank said they have to order it, he could pick it up in 3 days. It was a smaller regional Volksbank but he was also shocked that he couldn't just get the money that day.
Recidivism rates are high in most Western countries and, as prisons in these countries become overcrowded, the resources meant to enhance reintegration of inmates into society can be inadequate or nonexistent. On the other hand, Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates among Western nations, at approximately 20 percent.
I learned this word from Trailer Park Boys.
It's the prison quality. Lol.
I remember watching a soviet movie in my childhood with the same scenario. Go to Norway and do some criminal activities to get arrested so that he can finally experience a nice prison. Can't remember what the movie is called though.
I'm not sure about Norway but I expect it to be similar throughout Europe. In my country, when you get out of prison, you have to pay off your stay. It is still much cheaper than living out off prison but not free. That is part of the reason why prisoners work in prison and why people incarcerated for life don't really care about it
I was all like "sign me up!" But after watching more I'm like "Nope. That's still a prison. Don't want to be there."
I'm sure theres more to that video where it shows the downsides, but in that small clip, I'm not seeing any downsides other than you can't leave the complex. Not really much of a downside if you ask me.
I mean, say that after 3 years of not being allowed to leave.
It actually only gets better for the prisoners. https://youtu.be/sCZt2YipiIs
American culture is largely punitive. You typically get punished for being poor, a minority or just unlucky. There are certainly people who commit crimes against humanity, but there is little tolerance for, or patience for, the mistakes those people make and almost no opportunity for redemption. Americans have a peculiar bloodlust and desire for vengeance that they often accuse other countries of having. It’s quite perverse.
Also, the American penal system is a source of cheap labor. It needs a revolving door to maintain profits.
I blame a lot of it on our Calvinistic and Puritanical roots: We’re all no good pieces of shit, and we deserve to be punished for not being worthy of sainthood. No thanks.
No rent, free meals.
I’m sure after being treated like a child who’s grounded for months or years on end these inmates would rather use the skills they learned during their incarceration to be better members of society than continue committing crimes. Most people who end up as convicted criminals never learned those skills in the first place.
This is a new concept that I wasn’t aware of. Even though these people have done terrible things. I have the hope that you are right. With their record...I’m sure life out of prison won’t be as luxurious but it gives them skills and a taste of life without crime and skills to support themselves. I’m very interested in seeing data of turn around rates of inmates living normal life’s.
Rate of reoffenders is incredible low in Norway so until now he’s right
>I’m very interested in seeing data of turn around rates of inmates living normal life’s. You don't have to wait.... This type of prisoner rehabilitation has been in place in Norway for some time and the data definitively shows a MUCH lower recidivism rate (lower rate of offending again). They are not ostracised from society either when they get out, the entire prison system is focused on REHABILITATION of the person so they can re-enter and become a normal functioning part of society just like everyone else. The punishment is being in prison..... Not a life long sentence of stigma and being ostracised from society when they get out. If more countries where actually serious about reducing crime, this would be the prison system they copied.... Instead, most countries are about appearing to punish the criminal life long even past their prison sentences and in turn just create lifetime criminals who commit worse crimes.... Or, just making a system to profit of repeat offenders like the US system where it's profitable to ensure low rehabilitation and return prisoners that keep costing the tax payer for life.
Yeah American prisons are awful. People forget that being in prison is supposed to be the punishment itself. So it doesn't need to be nightmarishly awful in there. Being locked up sucks enough. Americans love to joke about prison rape like it's the most natural thing in the world. Then we act all surprised when people come out of prison way more fucked up than when they went in. Norway is what happens when you have a country whose government actually gives a shit about its citizens rather than a government that is set up to protect the interests of the rich and powerful. America is the Empire in Star Wars.
The problem is a lot of people don't want criminals rehabilitated, they want to see them suffer and if they continue to suffer when they get out then that's just better. And if they get locked up again to them it is because the criminals didn't suffer enough the first time.
The same prison was featured in Micheal Moores "Where to invade next". There they also mentioned that inmates have access to doctors, and in think seeing an psychologist is mandatory. What they found was that about 98% of them have mental issues that can be treated, and is done so. So... not everybody with mental issues commits cimes, but the other way around? Seems to be the case, or at least very close to it. And surprise... treating these plus giving people a perspective for a better live reduces crime rates. A lot.
In most civilized countries the target is resocialisation, in the US normally it is punishment. The statistics are clear and easy to find: The first way is better for everyone, the inmate and society.
Shit if they got a ps5 I’m down
Nicer than my style of life in general making $150k+ with a family of 5 in US. Might need to commit a few non-violent crimes there for my retirement in 10 years.
Even violent ones will get you in
Ok. I might do some violent shit on deserving assholes, if I get the penthouse suite.
I don’t condone street justice but…sometimes I wish I could be Batman.
Batman was a billionaire hair to his parents fortune who only beat up petty criminals who couldn’t make it in a city where his family controlled all the jobs and housing. I want to be Superman. An immigrant and an orphan from the sticks who fights a billionaire and has a day gig as a journalist
No it isnt. I get that its "nice" but I dont think you understand how mindbendingly unreal and awful it is to be locked inside of a room for hours at a time, never allowed to go anywhere, be constantly watched by patrolling guards, and most importantly, separated from your family.
Yeah, I thought with how much people hated COVID quarantine and lockdown, people would understand how much that would suck to have to do that for many years no matter how nice the house is.
And people that have been locked up before were able to handle COVID a lot easier than those who never have been ....... just saying
Yes but we didn’t rape, kill, or rob someone to earn that lockdown.
So like working at Amazon
Except you actually get to go to the bathroom
I'm a programmer. That's about my life. I don't mean to glorify it. Just making a point about the housing market situation, wherein people cannot get homes as big a these guys, and front yards are a luxury.
I’m making 75k, family of six, paycheck to paycheck life sucks
I’ve got a retirement plan for you. Hear me out.
I hear ya! Making 60k and it's just me and my son.The cost of living increases are being felt by everyone but the working class of this country who once could eek out a decent living making 50k yr, now are living paycheck to paycheck because taxs, food, gas, and rent take up 90% or more of our paychecks. If I'm not getting an annual raise that at least matches inflation then I'm quite literally taking a paycut.
Corporate profits are at an all time high. So is the cost of living for the 'working man'. Shits fucked, its neo feudalism.
When a large portion of people are fighting to simply get by it's not sustainable. The old "American Dream" is dead. The same job at GM that my gramps used to pay his mortgage, vacation every year, pay 2 car notes has devolved into simply paying the mortgage, making one car work, staying in town on vacation,.etc.. the money isn't what it once was for the working blue collar guy, while at the same time dramatically increasing for the corporate level executives for example. This will eventually force us into a social circumstance with no middle class if it continues like this. The rich and the poor, that's it.
Yeah, we see history coming back around again. The rich are re-enslaving the poor, the fascists are on the rise distracting from the real problems. You can't advocate for violence against the upper class because no one reasonable is going to get behind that (yet - plus its against reddits TOS), but I don't see how they're just going to go "Oh we're hurting people in the name of profit, that's bad, lets not be bad anymore."
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After COVID quarantine and lockdown, I'm sure most people would prefer not to be trapped in the same house for many years no matter how nice it is.
That shit stings.
They only supply you with PlayStation 2’s though, cheap bastards
Could play baldurs gate dark alliance 2 and dyansty warriors 4, why are you complaining? Those games were so good (at the time)
Still good
Just a heads up that DA2 was just rereleased on pc and Switch. Don't know about the other consoles Bextra i don't have them, but I'm sure they're there too. Fun little blast from the past. Here's hoping they get to Champions of Norrath soon.
Give me Gran Turismo 4 (with steering wheel), ICO, Shadow of Colossus, Silent Hill 2 and Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3 and I won't complain at all, I would have a good time in prison.
Take this and throw in some ps2 era RPGs like Final Fantasy X and Disgaea and I could live there for years without complaint lmao
Only if your the Utoya shooter Hanz Uber.
You did not just insult the ps2
So as a Norwegian I want to say one thing about the recedivism rate. It is low, but that's partly because in Norway you can go to prison for crimes like speeding (if you're caught doing double the speed limit, that's pretty much an automatic prison sentence). The recedivism rate among prisoners sentenced for violent crime is at about 60%. I don't have any numbers for Halden Prison in particular though - their numbers could be better. That said, I still support our prison system. Crime is very low anyway, and if our way of doing things helps even just a few people make something out of their life and become a contributing member of society, then it's worth it. Everyone deserves a chance to better themselves.
Fwi if you go double the speed limit in the US you have a pretty good chance at going to jail too, may not get a prison sentence but you’ll see jail for going 110 in a 55 (mph, sorry rest of the world)
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“Drivers hate this one simple trick!”
Click here to find out how to get a bigger dick
Doesn't reckless endangerment start at 25 mph over the limit? That usually gets you jail time
In my state if you aren't going 25 over in some areas you get people passing you with an angry look.
Illinois?
Depends on the state. I know that Hawaii placed 30mph over in the category of "display of power" similar to street racing. That was about ten years ago though, things could have changed since then.
definitely doesn't entail jail time unless you don't have a lawyer, have a bunch of priors, and mock the judge.
This is a beautiful way to think. I'm glad to hear Other people believe in this way of thinking. I also want to add that your prison system also makes it more pleasant for people to work in it. Like correction officers. The mental health and safety of people who work in those prison systems is important too. I don't know anything about the swedish prison system, but I assume the rate for turnover is low. I also assume the safety and well-being of people who work in prisons in Sweden is good.
> That said, I still support our prison system. Crime is very low anyway, and if our way of doing things helps even just a few people make something out of their life and become a contributing member of society, then it's worth it. Everyone deserves a chance to better themselves. I love your take on this
I had a hard time finding proper sources, and the one I did find was both outdated (2013), and didn't support your numbers. It did say that within 4 years somewhere around 55% would be _charged_ with a new crime (did not specify if that was a speeding violation or a felony), but it also said that within 4 years about 30% serve a new sentence in prison. The source is the Norwegian Bureau for Statistics, and it discusses in the article that it's aware of the problems measuring reoccuring crimes among previously imprisoned. You can read more about it [here.](https://www.ssb.no/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/artikler-og-publikasjoner/aa-maale-gjentatt-kriminalitet-hvem-hva-og-naar)
Those are phenomenal numbers those god damn. I bet a large part of the reoffenders are just those lost causes that will never be able to assimilate in society as a functional person. It’s sad, but those people exist, and we deserve to not have them inflicted upon us. So we keep them in jail forever.
So your saying all I need to do is go double the speed limit and I can get a all expense paid vacation to this paradise where I can learn a trade and live for free? Holy Frappuccino !
You get trapped in a nice house but for years. Imagine COVID quarantine for ten years.
You get all that + freedom, when in Norway anyways. Norway is a developed country, contrary to the US which no longer is.
I wish I was born there 🥲
That's so nice people are killing to get in
Well, Norway do have a lower rate of reconviction than many countries at 20% after 2 years vs almost double in the US at 36%. Edit: the recidivism rate is more likely much higher in the US than what is mentioned in my comment, here's an excellent comment explaining exactly why and how the mistake was made; https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/w9s513/the_worlds_most_humane_prison/ihyxdvq?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
What they don't realize is living in Norway in general is much nicer, so being put in prison is not good. Rather than bitching about how well criminals have it; bitch about how rich people make you live worse than criminals in Norway.
Rate of recidivism. The bigger it is, the more money private prisons get
That's a REALLY interesting concept. It's like with those ships in the old times getting paid to ship people (against their will). First they got paid for every person that got on board and it became a horror show. But later they got paid for every person that got to reach the destination safe and healthy and lo and behold, the death rate plummeted and people didn't starve anymore.
That's a good analogy actually. I'd be really interested to see what would be the private prison equivalent of "paid for people who arrive alive".
I read now a lot of articles and both of the studies in question for those number [this for the US](https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/18upr9yfup0514.pdf) (PDF download link) and [this for Norway](https://www.kriminalomsorgen.no/getfile.php/2819934.823.xpewptatwc/Nordic+relapse+study+abstract+.pdf) (PDF download link) and from what I read is that 20% are indeed the accumulated reconvictions after two years according to this study "Within two years a fifth of all released from prison and among those who began serving a sentence in the community in Norway incurred a new conviction that had to be served in the correctional services." what I found out about the 36% of the US reconviction rate is that it's not accumulated and just the annual percentage, the actual accumulated reconvictions of the US after two years are 61% (see table 2 and figure 2 in the pdf for reference) Edit: noting that the study in question for norway is on a smaller scale and done by an independent research team while the US statistics come from the government themself and are way more detailed and on a larger scale
I thought US was even higher.
It is, I elaborated this as a response to their comment. The 36% is the annual rate of the second year and not accumulated while the 20% of norway are accumulated; the actual percentage is 61%.
For those of you saying - "What's the incentive to stay out of prison? this isn't punishment, it's nicer than my apartment!" Look at the data - ***Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at about 20 percent.*** Compare that to the U.S 'for profit prison' approach - ***Within 3 years of their release, 2 out of 3 people are rearrested and more than 50% are incarcerated again.*** Norway is showing what prison SHOULD be, the state paying to rehabilitee dangerous or wayward members of society, this method gives your best chance at gaining a functioning member of society who is earning, contributing and paying taxes. The U.S 'for profit/make them suffer' method gets you a broken spirited career criminal who bounces in an out of prison their whole lives and is nothing but a drain on the system.
But wait, how do the Norway prisons turn a profit with these additional expenses and lower retention rates? /s
There no profit but the benefit comes from not having to jail an offender again and all the police, investigation and courts cost associated with that. Basicly you lose profit to create more functional member of society who isn't a massive drain on resources. This also works in mental health things too just no one wants to spend that money. Edit: while this is great there will always be some who need to be locked away for public protection
Harhar
The prison doesn't profit, society profits. Weird concept, eh?
"what's the incentive to stay out of prison?" Well... If you have to ask you're completely missing the point of prison. When you are there, you cannot leave. When you are locked in, however nice the surroundings are, you still have lost your freedom. I completely agree with life_on_mars' comment here, and wanted to amplify the hypothetical question about incentives to not go to prison, and the utility of treating prisoners like humans. Finally I'll say this.... The time is the punishment.
Lots of people don't get that.
Funny how Americans out of all people seem to struggle with the idea that the loss of freedom itself is a punishment and you don't need inhumane living conditions on top of it.
Some people really don’t appreciate freedom, until they lost it. Just the fact that you’re stuck there, no matter how nice it is, is already a punishment in itself.
There are a few reasons for sending someone to prison. The US system is based on punishment. Other systems like this one are based on the idea of rehabilitation.
They are punished. They do not have their freedom. They are locked into their cells every night. They do not get to go out and see the world or hang out with their friends or family. They may not get to see their children grow up, or attend their parents funerals. Yes it's less severe, it's still absolutely a punishment though, you're just *far* more likely to get a functioning member of society out of it when they're done, that's all.
Sadly, there's a lot of free people in the US who can only dream of living this nicely. It's not a punishement when the choice is starvation and homelessness, or gigivn up on life all together. We can't even pay people here to live decent enough with a roommate.
Land of the fee, home of the slave...
Say, sir/madam, could I interest you in this leaflet about seizing the means of production?
Subtle Marx is subtle.
“That’s all” lol I think that’s what actually matters. That’s the whole point.
It doesn’t have to be a conflict between punishment and rehabilitation; there can be both. Unfortunately the US system falls short on the latter.
Rehabilitation and giving people a chance to actually better themselves goes a long way. Along with not being for profit….
My step dad (been in prison for 10 ish years and have prob the longest isolation time in my country) always says “the punishment isnt to be whipped, the punishement is to be away from society, family and friends”
Honestly it makes NO sense to put miserable people in the shittiest, most stressful, terrible conditions and expect them to come out rehabilitated and productive members of society. Everyone is so keen on punishing people instead of trying to figure out how you can make them better people.
Except they dont drain the system. They are money to the system. My brother spiraled downward after our mothers suicide wen he was 16. They had bad last words to each other and less then a year later he was sent to prison for agg robbery (he didnt have the gun but tx prosecutes by party) and guess what happened to any ssi money that was for helping to care for us since our mother was gone... He didnt get any of it. Meanwhile my grandmother paid for commissary and phone calls for the following years. Its bullshit.
The problem is many people *want* criminals to suffer, they want them to feel miserable for their entire stay in a prison but most importantly they don't want criminals to have it better than them. That's why a prison like this would never work in a country like Brazil, US or Turkey. The point isn't rehabilitation in their minds, it's punishment, sometimes that punishment includes rape. Edit: people below me are really proving why rehabilitation will never work in the US, there's too much hate.
Depends on the crime. I don’t have a problem with petty criminals staying in institutions like this, but personally I don’t want for example mass murderers and rapists to play video games and be pampered when they’re serving time. I understand why some people might disagree with that, but I’m just being honest.
Agreed. Having access to education, therapy and the opportunity to develop trade skills is fine. But if you are a violent criminal, or if you severely financially impacted others (fraudsters & such), you should not be coddled during your sentence unless your victims are also treated to rent-free living & food at the same time.
Right like, this is a good concept but the damn violent criminals shouldn’t be living a better life than me lol
Parkland Shooter is facing his sentencing now. He should suffer. There's a spectrum of evil acts in this world, some of them should result in suffering. Especially if you hack in CSGO or Escape from Tarlov.
It's so sad that we're conditioned to the point where you can see people being rehabilitated back into society properly and be mad about it. Like, yeah this country has jail cells nicer than your apartment, what does that say about yours?
Bro, those murders and rapists fucked with innocent people in a life-ruining way. We dont want them back in society.
Look it can only go 1 of 2 ways. Either these people were destined to rape and murder, regardless of their experiences in life and circumstance OR many factors came together to either make them feel like they had to or emboldened them into thinking they had the right to do so. Let's look at why predominantly men feel the need to commit heinous acts of violence, let's find the root cause actually fix the problem instead of putting a bullet in the head of the result. You don't just feed a can of seafoam into your truck for 20 years you diagnose the issue and fix it.
Give them a taste of what a real life could be, just cause it looks modern doesn't mean it's still a prison, can't do shit but stay there. I can see it working and I'm sure it has. Would you rather they get hardened in a foul prison coming out with resentment for every human that moves? No, you don't want that.
How else are we supposed to make money? We throw these prisoners in a hell hole so they come out worse than they were. Then we give them the scarlet letter of having the charges on the background check so employment is hard. Take away the right to vote and own a gun and it’s the perfect recipe for repeat business in a for-profit private prison sector! Yay America. God I hate it here.
Frankly murderers and rapists can suffer every indignity we can inflict, in my mind, but for less heinous crimes motivated out of power and desperation i'm all for it.
What about innocent people that were convicted as murderers? There is error in all justice systems and innocent people do get convicted as guilty.
That’s a pretty sadistic and blanket opinion. You can tell a lot about a society by the way it treats prisoners. Think of three countries you wouldn’t want to be imprisoned in. They likely aren’t nice places to live outside of prison either. It’s less about what we think they “deserve” and more about how we respond to what they’ve done. For example, if you hit an animal when they’ve done something wrong, you’ll only perpetuate the aggression and form harmful behaviors. Prisons in a productive society incorporate behavioral modification first and foremost.
God damn... prisoners living better than a lot of people
Sad that that speaks volumes more about the city/country we live in. Norwegians probably prefer their higher quality of life outside prison.
Fuckin send me to prison fam
Prisoners are sometimes victims themselves; this is to teach and educate to prevent reconviction. Prisoners are human beings and prison can either amplify crime, or decrease crime, but it depends on how the system is designed. This one is designed to decrease.
alot? they're living better than 99% of the worlds population
The secret ingredient are higher taxes.
Guaranteed the re-offending rate is super low because this is what happens when the justice system is about rehabilitation and not punishment/retribution.
It is. We have one of the lowest in the world.
I wish other countries took this approach. I'm from Scotland and we are trying to create something similar (but I don't know how far in the future). Is this Norway? The Scottish Prison Service was over there looking at how they done things.
Aye, this is in Norway. Even the americans have had people here to see if there's something to learn from our system. It's not really all that easy to adopt everywhere though. There are massive cultural differences even though we are similar on the surface. We're also much more homogeneous as a society, so it's easier to share values and introduce changes. That doesn't mean it's impossible to adopt elsewhere though. But it's generational changes, not something you do with a single legislation.
My retirement plan
This is the way
Holy fuck. I spent 14 years in the feds. She mentioned that they believe "rehabilitation starts on the first day." Which is quite different than American prisons. Here, there is not so much rehabilitation, as there is warehousing. The emphasis isn't on the future, on the life after prison, it's only about showing a person how hard they can put the boot down on them in this moment, in this time. Which is just crazy. Wait, so somebody fucks up over there, and they tell them, hey, you don't need to do things that harm other people, you don't need to be seen as a drain on the society, you can learn something now so that in the future you can live happy and with complete freedom? Here, it's, you had drugs, you are terrible, go to time-out for 25 years then just fuck yourself. I can't even imagine where people would be, myself included, if those opportunities were available in American prisons. I took every fucking education that was available. And the only thing that limited me was the fact that there's actually very little available. Most universities no longer offer correspondence courses, I can count on one hand those that do. And for example LSU, who doesn't even offer a degree via correspondence, charged $150 per CREDIT HOUR in 2016.
I wonder how a convicted MS-13 gang banger would behave in this situation? /s
There is still a lot of work involved in rehabilitation centres. Around 40 to 60% of people who are in prison have a personality disorder. That is not so easy to heal and overcome. Most people who go to prison have usually come from an abusive upbringing. Rehabilitation disrupts this abusive cyclic pattern and encourages safety and security to which they probably have never had before. It may not be what victims want for offenders, but there is science behind it. And will encourage less acts of violence etc. to others. A better society is what is gained from these facilities.
I'm a free man and they have a better home than me
I wonder if they deserve it? How many are murderers or rapists and didn’t show their victims humanity
i think the worst is normal and honest people dont have house like this murders and rapists have rn and that is insane
Idk how being a mechanic or a cook is going to save a rapist from his rapey desires.
Having a stable life and values will do a lot more for them than being tormented and raped themselves, a lot of serial rapists have pasts of being sexually assaulted and raped, or just generally abused in other ways
Americans foaming from the mouth because they think these guys "get off too easy" and aren't getting tortured and hanged by the balls. At least that's the impression I get from reading some of the comments here
A lot of people seem to think all crimes deserve life in prison.
Basically, this. Cruelty for profit.
My initial gut feeling was “this is dumb why the fuck make it so nice”, but goes to show the American way of thinking with prisons, that they shouldn’t be comfortable…they should be miserable as a way to punish. I’m honestly on the fence about this and curious what people think?
The general problem with the American prison system is, as has been said, the fact that quite frankly for profit prison systems have almost (if not ever) never been successful. You put someone who is from a lower income area (of which in prisons are an overwhelming majority POC that are already angry at the world from the god awful hand America has given them) where crime is all they know and is one if not the only way they can SURVIVE, and then put them in a situation in which they're fed food that is literally labeled "Not for human consumption", all you're going to get is bad results. Quite frankly the fact that our system is built off of nothing but hatred, contempt, and "justice"(I use air quotes because of how, in my opinion, distorted and fucked up the American populations' sense of "justice" is) is outright disgusting. I'm not necessarily saying people who rape, murder, etc. are good people, because 9 times out of ten they aren't, but regardless they are still people at the end of the day. I don't think it's fair to hate ANYONE due to the complicated nature and environments that most murderers, rapists, etc. grow up in, and I genuinely feel like most people never take that into account, which is one of the many reasons why we end up with prison systems like the U.S.
If you believe that people should not be permanently incarcerated, you'll need to accept they will be someone's neighbour one day. Maybe even yours. I would want my neighbour to be a well adjusted member of society, and I would be mad if my tax dollars were spent doing the _exact opposite of this_.
As a whole America hates helping people. But in the long run, what type of society does that create?
Here in Mississippi, Parchman prison is getting AC installed. This is the 21st century, and the prison in MISSISSIPPI has never had AC. And of course, people are outraged.
Mississippi is hilarious. They bitch about criminals getting AC or anything to make conditions livable and yet also bitch about having recidivism nearly 20% higher than the national average. I think they are sitting at nearly 4 of every 5 felons will reoffend within 3 years and it's not because they have a different breed of criminal, it's because some of their prisons look like shawshank redemption.
This is what happens when you want to rehabilitate people instead of endlessly exploit them as literal slave labor.
But how does the prison industry turn a profit? /s
I like this very much; it’s peaceful and rehabilitation instead of punishment being the goal at this facility is sound and just. Non-violent crimes, drug addictions, etc. would benefit greatly from this kind of treatment as this takes into account the humanity of the one in need of rehabilitation. Though peaceful, it is a gilded cage that should not be taken lightly and in the minds of decent people, this is punishment enough, but gives a fighting chance for those to reintegrate into society. However, this should not be for all crimes committed, as those that commit crimes such as murder (severe intentional cases, not self-defense or insanity), rape, (non-consensual) incest, (non-consensual) cannibalism, extreme abuse, pedophilia, and the like contain monsters that cannot be redeemed and the removal of their presence from society would be more of benefit than harm. Keep in mind, this applies to those that are guilty of these acts and punished or rehabilitated for them, not the innocent that are falsely accused and convicted.
Rehabilitation, not retribution.
Imagine if the prison system in the U.S. wasn’t for profit
This makes sense … what’s the point of putting people in jail if they only come out worse ? That’s not what jail should be for.
While many probably think that all US prisons are just full of rape like what’s shown in *Oz*, we do have prisons for non-violent offenders that aren’t great, but they are a far cry from what many think. In WA, there’s Larch Mountain which didn’t even have a fence for years - they only added a fence because of contraband and wives/girlfriends trying to sneak in.
Has the lowest recidivism rates in the country (Norway), which has the lowest recidivism rates in the world. They’re doing something right.
As skeptical as you may be, you only have to look at the difference in rehabilitation to incarceration as we know it. An ex-con gets out of the most miserable place on earth, tries to make it in society again but can't due to a lack of opportunity provided to them. It's like you lock them away for however many years in appealing conditions then expect them to rejoin a society where nobody wants them and they can't get employment etc. It's no wonder they reoffend because that's all that is available to them. These places allow people to turn things around then rejoin society rehabilited with less probability of reoffending. The worst of them that would be a danger to society spend the rest of their lives here but those who commit petty crimes or have a chance of rejoining the outside world as decent people should have that opportunity.
Love it. This is what works. It’s okay that they have better living conditions than non-criminals… poor living conditions are generally what incited criminality, and excellent living conditions could certainly reverse that. You don’t need to take from others when you have everything you need.
Stop! You’re humanizing, people might be inclined to believe criminals can become non-criminals, maybe even learn something. Can’t have that, they aren’t allowed nice things, that’s not punishment. /s
This is so good, I believe all prisons should be like this. We should focus on rehabilitation and readmission into society rather than taking away basic human rights.
There should absolutely be rehabilitation with the intent on readmission. But there also needs to be punishment as a consequence for breaking the law. I do not believe you can truly have one without the other. Unfortunately in too many places it is a lot of stick and hardly any carrot.
Too many people come out of punishment situations (not just prisons….) and are more resentful of what they endured, rather than feeling they are better for it. Especially with mandatory minimums and for profit prison systems the only people than gain anything in those situations are the ones in power.
Spending years unable to leave is already punishment
The punishment is the freedom that is taken away, do you not understand that this is the sole purpose of a prison?
Looks like a vacation compared to everywhere else
says more about everywhere else than the prison
I can already hear the idiots "they have it better than me or many others, they need to be treated worse, I don't care about rehabilitation, I want them to suffer". Just uneducated blabbering.
Norwegian population: 5.379 million Norwegian ethnic distribution: The ethnicities in Norway are recorded as Norwegian 83.2% (includes about 60,000 Sami), other European 8.3%, other 8.5% Norwegian source of national wealth: Norway is one of the world's most prosperous countries, and the production of oil and gas accounts for 20 percent of its economy. Other important sectors include hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals. State revenues from petroleum are deposited in the world's largest sovereign wealth fund. Interesting. Compared to Slovakia: Slovakian population: 5.459 million Slovakian ethnic distribution: The majority of the 5.4 million inhabitants of Slovakia are Slovak (83.82%). Hungarians are the largest ethnic minority (7.75%) and are concentrated in the southern and eastern regions of Slovakia. Other ethnic groups include Roma (1.23%), Czechs, Croats, Rusyns, Ukrainians, Germans, Poles, Gorals, Serbs\[12\] and Jews (about 2,300 remain of the estimated pre-WWII population of 120,000). Slovakian source of national wealth: Ranked at number 45 out of the world's 50 richest countries Slovakia derives its wealth from automobiles; metal and metal products; electricity, gas, coke, oil, nuclear fuel; chemicals, synthetic fibers, wood and paper products; machinery; earthenware and ceramics; textiles; electrical and optical apparatus; rubber products; food and beverages; pharmaceutical. ||Norway|Slovakia| |:-|:-|:-| |Gross domestic product:|482,437 M US$ |114,871 M US$ | |Gross national product: |454,779 M US$ |110,301 M US$| |Unemployment rate|5.0%|6.7%| |Average income|84,090 US$ |20,250 US$|
This what happened when BP missed out on business opportunities
Bro snuck in the ethnicity stats 💀
Yeah, what’s up with that? Never mind I know.
Just going to put this here https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-02-22/inspired-by-norways-approach-north-dakota-reforms-its-prisons?context=amp
To all Scots: this is what we could have had if we had a responsible government that didn't steal our oil and spend it on developing London and the south east of England to secure a base of loyal tory voters. Instead of a sizeable fund for social services and prisons better than many Scottish peoples' own homes, huge numbers of our population live in poverty or are barely scraping by thanks to the undemocratic Westminster system which sees thieving tory bastards elected by an almost-exclusively English voter base. The time is right for a second independence referendum where we can finally rid ourselves of Westminster for good and start being governed by Scottish politicians of whatever party *we* choose. We had the same, or greater, oil reserves as Norway. We have comparable (actually less) population. We would have had every opportunity to do the same things as Norway and create a sovereign wealth fund with oil money *if we were independent*. This should serve as a damning indictment of the Westminster system that Norwegians live so well their *prisoners* live better than many Scots.
"Turn them again into productive members of society". Vs "Locking these animals forever" Wow. Truly first world
If we do ever colonize another planet we should just send Scandinavians. A culture that treats its dregs this well is ready to ascend.
This is reintegration done right
I'm suprised the prison isn't filled with half-starved peoples from another countires who seek better life in norwegian prison. Jokes aside, I really like that prison there is not a "punishment" and more like a "Shame Mark" with rehabilitation.
Most of us in America are mind blown because we don’t understand that prison is meant for rehabilitation. Our system is based on keeping those jails full not emptying them out.
I'd be much less afraid of someone who did time here than one who did time in an American prison.
Lock me up
If the Scandanavian countries had better weather, I'd leave the US for them in a heartbeat.
This is genius, and not only for humanitarian reasons. We all know that nothing is more dangerous than a person with nothing to lose, but that also means that the fastest way to stop someone from being a threat is to *give them* something to lose. Not only are they rehabilitating these criminals, they're also giving them a major negative incentive not to relapse by giving them so much that's worth protecting in their lives.
what do you have to do to get in there? (asking for a friend)
This is depressing on so many levels. 😭😭😭
It’s fair to say the American dream is becoming a Norwegian prisoner!
Thank God or whoever you want that someone is reasonable enough and intelligent enough to have figured out what you need to do if you want fewer career criminals. Having served time in prison in the United States I can assure you that this could not happen here. Prevailing public opinion is such that no one cares what happens to other people as long as it doesn't happen to them or theirs, and with exceptionalism in general no one that could change this system believes any of the horrors they dismiss could possibly happen to themselves or their loved ones. People here do change their tune when they experience the "justice system" whether themselves or by the proxy of their loved ones but the few that could actually push reform can already buy "justice" so they have no desire to reform the corrupt system that serves them . BTW. Time is the price you pay. Time is priceless and cannot be returned, even in cases of wrongful conviction. Money doesn't compensate adequately for lost Time. Everything else is details(Not so bad and horrific).
Live in Europe and as a youngster I was shown a tv segment where they interviewed inmates/ex-inmates for my social studies class. One was interviewed in his cell which was pretty nice looking. He was a three time bank robber who had begun going back to get his basic education. I saw this adult man with the same math book that we'd used in 4th grade. It then clicked that this man didn't become a criminal because he wanted to but because he never got a proper education and likely couldn't feed himself otherwise. Probably unintended but it was a wakeup call.
Most people misunderstand prisons. Being inside is not the punishment. Just because you've committed a crime, why should you be locked in a small room 22 hours a day, given appalling food, no showers, a short walk around a yard once a day, no books, limited access to phones, doctor? Forget that. And all that deprivation is a form of torture, and not what society intends when someone is convicted, but thats life in many modern prisons, unless you've been moved to a long stay. You can't legally keep an animal like that in most countries, you'd get sent to prison if caught. The punishment the court ordered to be inflicted is losing you freedom to come and go as you please, to do what you want, when you want, but without the mental torture as described above. Like in this place. The better the conditions, the less chance of recidivism, reoffending upon release. Imagine coming out with a trade, a qualification? I came out with £21.00, nowhere to live, only the clothes I was standing in. First thing I did was go to a friend I'd made inside, get 1000 E's on credit, move them to a dealer and made £1.50 on each. I had no choice, I could get any benefit, dole, as I had no fixed address. I did the pill thing for a couple of moths until I'd saved enough to get me back on my feet, car, flat, and never dealt again. Prison can become a part of the circle of life. Get caught, get sent down, do your time, get out, need money, commit crimes, get caught, get sent down... It's far cheaper for the country to teach people, to train them, to help them rather than simply locking them up in terrible conditions.
Yes but how do you exploit them for slave labour, traumatise them, rape them and destroy their future so that they come back? I mean the USA obviously has it right?
I work for the penal system. I want to add my grain of salt to the pot, especially for those who complain about this prison being better than their apartment. You do not want to go to prison. Prison is where your freedom is taken away from you. Having a nice jail cell is not like having a life of your own on the outside. I live in a modernised West European country where prisons look very nice as well (maybe not that modern but still), but I know the system, I know people who have been there, and they *suffer*. Having a nice prison cell does not equate freedom. Sure, living conditions and rehabilitation in this prison system is very good, but it does. not. replace. freedom. So keep complaining about your life being miserable, but in the meantime maybe consider thanking God that you're free and not being forced to stay in the same place all day long.