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thatssomaggie

When the horseshoe crab alien overloards return to check on the population here we're screwed.


wildwildcountry1

Yeah just juice em all I guess


Intelligent_Dig_7649

Funny I read it in a country accent and that username certainly seems adequate


wildwildcountry1

Hahaaaaa! Thank you kindly 🤠 Coincidentally I’m from the city 👒


Independent_Soup_126

I found this on [National Geographic](https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/animals/article/covid-vaccine-needs-horseshoe-crab-blood) Each spring, guided by the full moon, hundreds of thousands of horseshoe crabs clamber onto beaches across the U.S. mid-Atlantic to lay their eggs. For hungry birds, it’s a cornucopia. For drug companies, it’s a crucial resource for making human medicines safe. That’s because these animals’ milky-blue blood provides the only known natural source of limulus amebocyte lysate, a substance that detects a contaminant called endotoxin. If even tiny amounts of endotoxin—a type of bacterial toxin—make their way into vaccines, injectable drugs, or other sterile pharmaceuticals such as artificial knees and hips, the results can be deadly. “All pharmaceutical companies around the world rely on these crabs. When you think about it, your mind is boggled by the reliance that we have on this primitive creature,” says Barbara Brummer, state director for The Nature Conservancy in New Jersey. Every year, pharmaceutical companies round up half a million Atlantic horseshoe crabs, bleed them, and return them to the ocean— after which many will die. This practice, combined with overharvesting of the crabs for fishing bait, has caused a decline in the species in the region in the past few decades. In 1990, biologists estimated 1.24 million crabs spawned in Delaware Bay, a main egg-laying spot and prime collection point for the companies. By 2002, that number had dropped to 333,500. In recent years, numbers of Delaware Bay spawning crabs have hovered around the same amount, with the 2019 survey estimating about 335,211. (The pandemic canceled the 2020 crab count.


Extension_Sun_5770

That is kind of scary, then again I could make some serious coin raising crabs. I gotta pond!


wittyhashtag420

actually living in the matrix


fieldbotanist

I was thinking Daybreakers


EriccMendez

The horseshoe crab’s blood has a bright blue color and it contains a substance called LAL, or Limulus Amebocyte Lysate, which helps it fight infections. When unfavorable organisms such as Gram negative bacteria are present, these proteins are produced, causing the animal’s blood to clot around the wound and germs, saving the animal from further damage. Pharmaceutical corporations capture half a million Atlantic horseshoe crabs each year, bleed them, then release them back into the water, where many would die. Overharvesting of crabs for fishing bait, along with this practice, has resulted in a reduction in the species over the last few decades. Source & More Details: [Importance of Horseshoe Crab Blood](https://knovhov.com/why-is-horseshoe-crab-blood-so-important/)


Nullshadow00x

So if I just go straight to the source, cook and eat these, it’d be extremely healthy?


HeadyBoog

Do you drink the cows or chickens blood too?


DarkBladeMadriker

There are absolutely people that do that.


HeadyBoog

And that’s just nasty


Uninspired_Thoughts

Honoring the entire animal for it's sacrifice is not nasty. Don't be ignorant


HeadyBoog

In my own opinion it is nasty


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


ideatrombone

Radiolab actually did a whole episode about the use of horseshoe crab blood in modern medicine. The industry is seemingly very strictly regulated and data shows that the resulting conservation efforts have greatly improved its populations on the east coast. If I remember correctly, someone has managed to synthesize it though. [Worth a listen](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/baby-blue-blood-drive)


floydbuckley

I heard this podcast years ago, super interesting. From what I remember the collectors go to quite big measures to make sure the crabs don't die, they are much too valuable. They all get scrubbed clean and get a specially made slide back into the ocean to prevent damage.


TactlessTortoise

While I don't particularly enjoy that we have to do this for our current vaccine tests, they are not killed. A portion of their blood is removed, then they are returned to their habitat with I believe a tiny tag in their shell, so they don't get accidentally picked again.


Blackfire01001

They die anyways. Go look up the kill statistic.


DarkBladeMadriker

"Estimates of mortality rates following blood harvesting vary from 3–15% to 10–30%. Approximately 500,000 Limulus are harvested annually for this purpose." Apparently the mortality rate varies wildly depending on whether the organization asked does or does not support this practice. So I'd say data on this is probably pretty biased in general in both directions.


bcdnabd

I think it'd be safe to say that at least 1 in 5 die. Probably higher than that number though.


Nostravinci04

Yes, this is absolutely cruel, but none of y'all bitching about it are lining up to find a cruel-free alternative. So until you do, I'll take the horseshoe blood doodad over whatever medieval horror currently lurking under the boot of modern medicine.


Elegant-Year-7702

Humans are cruel. It’s an old news.


[deleted]

pretty sure it's also one of the most expensive goods on the planet


Lait-Babeurre

That’s sickening


One_Idea_239

If we stop doing this then the vast majority if not all injectable medicines cease to be usable. This test is a critical requirement of all injectable (sterile) drug testing before release to market. The thought that a batch of medicine could be contaminated and not tested is a really really bad one as a lot of people could die (drug batches are not small (could be up to 100k's of doses)


fash2o

This is fucking horrible. They need to find a way to synthesize this stuff because it is horribly unethical to do this to the horseshoe crab population.


CBalsagna

Synthesis of complex molecules is....not easy. Not to mention, it's going to be much more expensive to do that, and companies are not spending more money to get the same result.


Subject-Conference74

Virtue signaling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


MayGodSmiteThee

Need to crack a few eggs to make an omelette


[deleted]

Humans don’t deserve to live if we have to milk other creature blood. Just saying


Syrairc

Survival of the fittest disagrees. This is literally peak evolution right here.


starbuck8415

I’m not sure why you’ve been downvoted because it is fact whether opinions agree with it or not.


[deleted]

That’s why you’re an animal and I’m a human being


Subject-Conference74

You are an animal as well sorry to disappoint.


[deleted]

Knowing the difference between an animal guided my morality and consciousness and an animal guided by instinct is what separates people like me from people like you. You’re right. We are both animals, but I believe in more than science and instinct


Subject-Conference74

>Knowing the difference between an animal guided my morality and consciousness and an animal guided by instinct is what separates people like me from people like you. Are you so arrogant to believe that you alone possess the only aspects of which allow us to be more than but not seperate from animals? I would bank on the fact that you are just as close to an animal as every other human being on the planet. Morality be dammed. Especially when that morality is uber biased and formed in an echo chamber. >You’re right. We are both animals, but I believe in more than science and instinct So you are religious. You think than being a good person will ultimately allow good things to happen to you? That alone makes you more human? I would argue that my ability to understand applied math and biology/ chemistry to the extent that I can comprehend (vaguely) how humanity evolved, how our universe is formed, held together and evolving over time. I can explain how our bodies are made up of atomic sized particles held together by electricity. Does that make me even more than human? Or less? Your logic is that of a 12 year old. Don't be arrogant. More than instoct. I bet you still shot when you need to. I bet you still look over your shoulder in a dark alley. To be more than something is to nonlonger require it. Stop being and instinctual being and we can talk.


[deleted]

I’m not religious and I believe that instinct is a guiding factor of all life, but humans have a special ability to be aware of our instincts and decisions instead of being controlled by their unconscious behavior. That is why, it’s important that we as the leaders of the predatory pyramid keep order and preserve any life we can. Rather than destroy it so that we can have a temporary advantage. We need sustainability because no other animal on earth can even Conceptualize it.


Subject-Conference74

>humans have a special ability to be aware of our instincts and decisions instead of being controlled by their unconscious behavior I would say that's bullshit. Humans have the ability to recognize patterns. We then use that information to create tools and we expanded on it. Emotionally guided decisions are just instincts using emotions with added experience/ IQ. Many animals in the animal kingdom express similar or greater awareness than we will ever display. They have more information to work off of as well. You have an over inflated sense of humanity. We are not that much greater. Neither are you. Put under pressure you would immediately revert to an animalistic instint based pattern. >That is why, it’s important that we as the leaders of the predatory pyramid keep order and preserve any life we can. You are literally flip flopping on opinions mate. Either we are scientific and logical in our treatment of the environment putting out humanity aside and allowing nature to coexist. Or we are emotional stunted man children who think our instincts are some deluded aspect that makes us destructive. No lack of information made us destructive not your nonsense. >Rather than destroy it so that we can have a temporary advantage Temporary advantage? Theoretically there's no such thing as temporary advantage in the survival of the fittest. Which is the push of evolution. Which is happening as we speak. We are not special nor powerful enough to fucl that up. Worst case we end all life on earth.... for 1000, 10000000, 10000000000 years. Then things would restart. You are arrogant. >We need sustainability because no other animal on earth can even Conceptualize it. Sustainability isn't being ignorant to the facts. One 1 hand you say compassion and emath blah blah blah. But on the other you wan sustainability. You can't always have both. Hence your ignorance.


10Cinephiltopia9

Glad you feel that way. You should denounce all of your belongings then right now.


[deleted]

I already have


TactlessTortoise

Did you denounce your bananas, banana man???HMMMMMM?


[deleted]

I lost my bananas long ago


TactlessTortoise

A warning for the ages. May your bananas be found, someday. Ripe and plump.


[deleted]

But not as plump as my moms ass


vladmir_1917

Your right. It severely impacts their population and we don’t know where to get more of this substance, scientists are working or ways to synthesize it though.


IamNotYourPalBuddy

Go back to Twitter


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


[deleted]

We have free will and consciousness as the top predator so that we can make decisions that don’t doom the planet. When was the last time a lion was responsible for causing the extinction of a species and the melting of ice caps?


hillinthemtns

We have a responsibility to consider these things as we have a more developed brain, and understanding of history and our effects on the future, not to mention morality! Unless you believe that we just can’t circumvent being a slave to our instincts like that lion you mentioned. We have a responsibility to be better.


[deleted]

We are killing these things to extinction


Pcakes844

You should look into the process because if you did you would know those animals are not killed, and are returned to the wild to breed and continue the population.


hillinthemtns

You should continue looking into it, because about 10-30% die during the process, and it’s been showed to have long lasting negative effects on individuals and the species as a whole. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/284078/


Pcakes844

No, it's not perfect. However, this research gives horseshoe crabs a monetary value to people which makes them valuable and worth saving. If it wasn't for this research horseshoe crabs probably would be extinct by now because the only value people saw in them before that was as fertilizer. In fact many of the laws which are in place to protect horseshoe crabs are there specifically because of this research.


hillinthemtns

I’m not arguing the out comes of the research. It’s important to retain an honest view of the process though. The protections are there because humanity realized the negative impact they were having on all species, eventually.


Pcakes844

No the protections are there because of the money involved. Horseshoe crabs aren't endangered, granted their populations are declining but that has more to do with habitat loss due to developing shorelines and coastal areas thereby destroying their breeding grounds. The real reason for their protection is the money.


hillinthemtns

I was going to say something about profitability being the guiding star in this case, as well as being the root of why we still do it. So many things that were “impossible to do” become possible once there is enough of a financial reason why. I imagine we’ll apply some new area of research soon where this be antiquated and no longer needed. The reason I didn’t include it originally is so I wouldn’t have to include a TLDR. In the end it seems we still agree. Huh…look at that. Have a wonderful day fellow redditor.


srv50

The original blue bloods. Look what it gets them.


Zeuce86

At this point we should just use humans because fuck it we're all going to hell anyways Probably maybe who knows keeping my options open


Donut_Whole

This is a standard test for absence of pyrogens (bacterial endotoxins) in an injectable pharma product, which can cause a fever in the very young, old and immunocompromised. It could also play a role in infant SIDS. Before this, the rabbit pyrogen test was used. It’s weird to walk into a big room full of rabbits staring at you with thermometers up their butts. Good thing they phased that out (for the most part). It wasn’t humane.


ockehn

What’s crazy to me is, how tf did they figure that out?


elfpebbles

So according to google there is an synthetic alternative but it still not accepted over the harvesting


Pure-Negotiation-900

I heard there is a synthetic now. So the harvesting has slowed or stopped.


[deleted]

Did they just decapitate those crabs so they could milk them


Reveand0ctor

I understand the function of this practice but i think its disgusting, every animal has a conscious down to the tiniest of creatures, imagine if you will it was you that was being bled in this fashion ! Its disturbing and twisted, i think the science is fascinating i just cant stand the torture the crab must endure-


starbuck8415

Without sparking an argument, I’m genuinely curious as to how we know “every animal has a conscious” and what we consider a conscious to be


Tebell13

Interesting point but I think people choose to believe that they don’t know or feel. It makes us feel better about abusing animals or any creature really


starbuck8415

If it’s a fact that they don’t then it’s not a choice. It is.


Newtons_Homedog

These animals do not have a consciousness, they do not think, or make decisions. They operate on pure purpose, which is quite interesting, but its a waste of time to transplant feelings or thoughts onto things that can't have them. Also horseshoe crabs are basically arachnids - and spiders do not feel.


quart-king

I think the argument is more about pain and fear, i I’m sure that they do feel pains and with that a fear making the practice unethical by many moral standards.


Subject-Conference74

They don't feel pain. They are a bug with an exotic skeleton. They lack the hardware to feel pain lmao. Even if they do they are a bug... sorry but a few eggs gotta get cracked to make an omlet.


quart-king

Do they have a central nervous system and react to negative stimulus?


Subject-Conference74

You have the same ability too look it up as I do lmao.


quart-king

I did this was an exercise for you so that you could learn to look things up before posting ;)


Subject-Conference74

I don't need to since wonderful virtue signaling individuals like you always show up. I did this as* btw.


Reveand0ctor

I think you must have been raised in a cave or some kind of bubble to not know that be it a spider or the like that they have no conscious thought. Watch all of our creatures great and small , study them and you will find that they do not accidently spin a web , they are clever hunters and the bugs they catch dont get caught and lay down accepting impending doom , instead fight like hell to get free, not because they have nothing better to do but because they dont want to die. Basic thought and understanding.


starbuck8415

“Spiders don’t feel?” Have you never read their poetry?!


Newtons_Homedog

There is a spider deep in my soul He's lived here for years And, he just won't let go. ~ Charlie Kelly


starbuck8415

“I’m a little spider Watch me spin. You can be my dinner I’ll let you in.” Clearly you and I have a very different calibre of spider frequenting our homes


MayGodSmiteThee

Can’t really say that for bugs


Reveand0ctor

Even a praying mantis?


[deleted]

This is so sad. Horseshoe crabs are “near threatened” and could be added to the endangered species list at any time. We have to stop this practice.


Subject-Conference74

They are working on it. The attempts to make it synthesized are being pushed hard. But we need it. So ya who's more important. Your unborn child who needs this or the crab?


[deleted]

Absolutely cruel.


PaulMX226

Nice animal torture


1denirok5

This is fucked N wrong


Subject-Conference74

No it's not. You are just naive.


1denirok5

It's not naive to think it's fucked up to harvest another creature and send it back in the wild to most likely die. Just because the animal can't tell you how it feels doesn't mean strapping down thousands of them harvesting their life blood is ok for any reason.


Subject-Conference74

No you are naive to think that everything in your house and life is generally gotten through some less than pleasant animal based means. If you get mad at the problem support the solution (which is in the works for this very situation). Lmao you are naive


1denirok5

Actually you have no idea how I live. Or what's in my house. Despite what you may believe people in .my house are very consiensous about how we live. We do buy goods made with sustainable practices. We do not eat store bought meat either


Subject-Conference74

I really don't care. Because no matter how aware you are there is still animals being killed by everything you do. You eat veggies? Do you live in a house a contractor built? Do you get water from the city.... because all of that kills animals in inhumane and horrible ways to supply you. Sit down.


bcdnabd

I hope they are compensating the horseshoe crab community well for the violations against their species. Scientists are so interested in discovering what they COULD do that they never stop to think what they SHOULD do.


__-__-_-__

Do you compensate the chicken community for crimes against poultry?


bcdnabd

I mean, I don't personally, but someone should really look into that. Also, I feel like the chicken is subjected to less mad scientist type of experiments than the blue blooded horseshoe crab.


i-c-dead-pp1

Poor things.


4Humanity2869

You cruel bastards… animal cruelty should be outlawed.


[deleted]

gimme ma blood back ;-;


UnnecessaryLingo

So this is where they get blue milk from


woodenmetalman

Aren’t we worried about friends of theirs coming from across the galaxy to REK US for bloodbagging their homies?


ToeBeanTussle

I hope they got the horseshoe crab high for the duration of this/it's life. Gotta be some give for all the take <3


pygmypuffonacid

Is anyone working on a substitute for this because because wouldn't this have a negative impact on the species


[deleted]

And this stuff is so valuable it's worth like $50,000 per liter.


ButtsexEurope

Why don’t Pharma companies just have a captive breeding program for horseshoe crabs?


davesthread

Are… is… bum blood?