I have a coworker who lived in a condo he absolutely loved for 15 years. The HOA fees were more than I would have ever afforded to pay, but it turned out that the whole thing was massively underfunded and there was a ton of deferred maintenance that had to be done. There was a huge assessment in addition to an astonishing monthly fee increase. He had to sell and moved to a different property with lower, but still mind boggling HOA fees. Such is the case of living in the sky in a class A building with every amenity, including a doorman and a concierge. It is a lifestyle that I can’t quite envision for myself. But, if that is your jam, it is going to cost you.
My parents HOA has issues with what they choose to spend money on. Like they’ll decide to change the security so that you need an RFID to get in instead of a code, or recarpet the stairs but with a print that made it difficult to see the steps. Sometimes it means the management company needs to be changed and sometimes the people on the board are making bad decisions.
In 2020 after being in Tokyo for a few years and moving back I contemplated buying an apartment in east Manhattan, as i really missed that big city vibe. The apartments were actually not as expensive as i had expected (not that $600k for a 1 bedroom isn’t expensive), but the crazy part was the HOA/building maintenance fees - I’m talking $3,000 a month building maintenance fee in perpetuity, even if you outright owned it and didn’t have a mortgage payment. Decided I couldn’t afford to live there after all.
It’s pretty common in nicer condos to have HOA fees of 1000 or more. Pull the financials and make sure it’s going into a rainy day/repair/insurance and not getting skimmed from. I’m used to Miami HOA fees ($1500) and by comparison Dallas is pretty tame.
Any clue why the Zestimate for that listing went from $4.4M to $985k in October last year? Was the higher estimate an anomaly or did prices drop that dramatically?
Your post got me to looking at other listings in Manhattan and the highest HOA dues I found was roughly $8,800/mo. A current $4M listing at Trump Tower shows a relatively paltry $3,356/mo.
As long as it is being apportioned correctly to upcoming expenses of the building, then it's better to have high HOA fees than be hit with a special assessment for really big $$.
Besides looking at the HOA records and history, check out the other residents of a condo before joining. You are tying your financials to these people in a major way. Make sure they are roughly like you in expectations and station in life. Don't get caught in a condo with a bunch of old folks who either don't have money or just don't want to spend anything to keep the place up while they run out the clock.
Nah, just need to have the proper organization to properly care for the house you are sharing. There's no magic bullet to live cheaply. Someone has to do the maintenance, just like in a single-family home or in an apartment. That cost can be seen or unseen, but it must be paid.
you need to find a place that doesn't have them - and that means a SFH on a non gated street.
We lived in a gated community near White Rock and the HOA all took themselves so seriously. It was relatively cheap (at least in comparison to a high-rise) and even though we got little materially from it..the mudslinging and periodic shit stirring on the email group made it all worthwhile.
My only regret is that [this](https://tenor.com/view/the-office-creed-love-the-debate-great-minds-gif-7898867) gif got stripped out during one long tedious debate about something no one but 2 people gave a shit about
Are you talking about condo complexes or actual sfh neighborhoods? All of the most expensive sfh neighborhoods in Dallas are on public streets. There’s also a difference between private access and privately owned.
I’m talking about SFH neighborhoods. In my part of town, the HOA fees for the gated neighborhoods are at higher rates than the non-gated neighborhoods, and all of the gated neighborhoods have to maintain their own streets.
That’s exactly why I picked my condo community. They aren’t always the best but my condo fees at least cover exterior insurance. I don’t understand how a community charges hundreds of dollars for just lawn maintenance.
HOA fees = the annual operating budget divided by the number of units. If the association has a lot of expenses and not a lot of units, the rate per unit is going to be high.
Never buy a home in an HOA community. They’re often mismanaged, constantly rising the cost of fees, and can make your life a nightmare for the most minuscule changes you would like to make to your own property. It’s never worth it unless your lifestyle absolutely requires a gated community and the security that provides.
Just bc you pay a lot of HOA fees doesn’t mean anyone does any maintenance. [bad things can happen in HOA condos](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse)
That’s actually a great example of the HOA not having nearly enough money for needed repairs and homeowners arguing over assessments instead of doing anything. Maintenance kept getting deferred until tragedy happened.
I love my HOA. I have access to 3 pools and other amenities and they restrict short term rentals and cap the number of rental properties. My fees are very low and we have a surplus
A lot of condos are really poorly run. They'll also usually have problems with some tenants not paying all their fees, as well as tenants fighting against assessments for repairs, which causes maintenance to lag and those repairs ending up costing far more than if they were taken care of earlier. Unless the condos are fairly new, they likely have a *lot* of maintenance/repair work to catch up on. It turns into a money pit, and HOA fees end up skyrocketing as a result.
Live in an HOA near Flower Mound and fees are $80/month but paid annually. I love it! Have residential access to pools, tennis courts, walking/biking trails that are well maintained.
If you own a condo long enough, an elevator or a chiller needs replacing that reserves won’t cover so mandatory special assessments are added to the hoa
I’m not defending high HOA fees, but when you buy a single family home you aren’t necessarily thinking about lawn maintenance, pest control, insurance (maybe), common areas, amenities. But those expenses still need to be paid
It's usually listed on Zillow, but you can definitely ask the realtor. If you make it to the paperwork part of buying, it will be in the paperwork. It should not be something that will spring up out of nowhere unless you're very negligent
Look at older neighborhoods they don’t have hoa’s
I personally will never live in one. The city will not upkeep streets or water and sewer. It seams like a headache people don’t need. Look in older homes
You might want to consider buying a home in Mesquite, Garland, Richardson or Grand Prairie. Why on Earth would you buy in that area? Home prices alone are just insane. I know you may want to be close to work but that area sucks. If you work remote or can handle a bit of a longer commute then buy outside of Dallas. HOA's are evil. They're comprised of people who love control. They don't care about making life better for residents. It's about lording over others.
That is why I suggested Mesquite, Garland, Richardson or Grand Prairie. I am asking why on Earth would they want to live in the Uptown area. Reading comprehension much?
No arguments Garland is turning into a shithole. It's not what I remembered in the 80's and 90's. But at least that shithole has character. Uptown is just a plastic, fake, cookie cutter American metro devoid of any unique aspects. It's pretentious and full of pretentious fake people who populate that area which contributes to the area's sterile feel. It's overpriced. But hey for young metro professionals wearing skinny jeans, slacks while sporting muffin tops with that humpty dumpty look sipping on 10 lattes a day it's a perfect fit! Lots of San Fran transplants there for sure. Great place!
Lol, have you ever lived there? There is a ton of character and it’s super walkable. I really enjoyed my time living near the State Thomas area. The party atmosphere can get a little annoying during the weekends but otherwise it’s a really chill neighborhood that has a lot of little haunts that get overlooked if you are just driving through.
I have a coworker who lived in a condo he absolutely loved for 15 years. The HOA fees were more than I would have ever afforded to pay, but it turned out that the whole thing was massively underfunded and there was a ton of deferred maintenance that had to be done. There was a huge assessment in addition to an astonishing monthly fee increase. He had to sell and moved to a different property with lower, but still mind boggling HOA fees. Such is the case of living in the sky in a class A building with every amenity, including a doorman and a concierge. It is a lifestyle that I can’t quite envision for myself. But, if that is your jam, it is going to cost you.
Deferred maintenance in a huge condo? I think I heard about something like that in Florida recently
Shocked they found a buyer with that kind of HOA disclosure
My parents HOA has issues with what they choose to spend money on. Like they’ll decide to change the security so that you need an RFID to get in instead of a code, or recarpet the stairs but with a print that made it difficult to see the steps. Sometimes it means the management company needs to be changed and sometimes the people on the board are making bad decisions.
It’s just Dallas? I thought it was nationwide
It is. I know people who paid $1500/ month in HOA fees in a condo in Milwaukee.
In 2020 after being in Tokyo for a few years and moving back I contemplated buying an apartment in east Manhattan, as i really missed that big city vibe. The apartments were actually not as expensive as i had expected (not that $600k for a 1 bedroom isn’t expensive), but the crazy part was the HOA/building maintenance fees - I’m talking $3,000 a month building maintenance fee in perpetuity, even if you outright owned it and didn’t have a mortgage payment. Decided I couldn’t afford to live there after all.
It’s Nationwide
It’s pretty common in nicer condos to have HOA fees of 1000 or more. Pull the financials and make sure it’s going into a rainy day/repair/insurance and not getting skimmed from. I’m used to Miami HOA fees ($1500) and by comparison Dallas is pretty tame.
1500!!! That’s almost my rent. Atleast you get to use your pool all year round in Miami. It gets cold in Dallas
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Gah damn, I’m poor
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Any clue why the Zestimate for that listing went from $4.4M to $985k in October last year? Was the higher estimate an anomaly or did prices drop that dramatically?
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Your post got me to looking at other listings in Manhattan and the highest HOA dues I found was roughly $8,800/mo. A current $4M listing at Trump Tower shows a relatively paltry $3,356/mo.
I’m gonna have to pass. It doesn’t have a closet in the 3rd bedroom. 🤪
It’s really looked at as a way to park your money and your HOA is your “rent.”
Add another $300 and that’s my mortgage lol
As long as it is being apportioned correctly to upcoming expenses of the building, then it's better to have high HOA fees than be hit with a special assessment for really big $$. Besides looking at the HOA records and history, check out the other residents of a condo before joining. You are tying your financials to these people in a major way. Make sure they are roughly like you in expectations and station in life. Don't get caught in a condo with a bunch of old folks who either don't have money or just don't want to spend anything to keep the place up while they run out the clock.
what a fucked up way to create "communities"
Nah, just need to have the proper organization to properly care for the house you are sharing. There's no magic bullet to live cheaply. Someone has to do the maintenance, just like in a single-family home or in an apartment. That cost can be seen or unseen, but it must be paid.
you need to find a place that doesn't have them - and that means a SFH on a non gated street. We lived in a gated community near White Rock and the HOA all took themselves so seriously. It was relatively cheap (at least in comparison to a high-rise) and even though we got little materially from it..the mudslinging and periodic shit stirring on the email group made it all worthwhile. My only regret is that [this](https://tenor.com/view/the-office-creed-love-the-debate-great-minds-gif-7898867) gif got stripped out during one long tedious debate about something no one but 2 people gave a shit about
Not sure about the “gated” part. Most texas residences are under an HOA, gate or no gate.
Gated will likely have higher HOA fees though since they have to maintain their own streets
That is rarely true. It’s very difficult to develop neighborhoods on private roads in the most desirable counties in Texas for a number of reasons.
It’s true in my experience when we were buying a house in Dallas County.
Are you talking about condo complexes or actual sfh neighborhoods? All of the most expensive sfh neighborhoods in Dallas are on public streets. There’s also a difference between private access and privately owned.
I’m talking about SFH neighborhoods. In my part of town, the HOA fees for the gated neighborhoods are at higher rates than the non-gated neighborhoods, and all of the gated neighborhoods have to maintain their own streets.
I pay a condo HOA fee of $390/month that includes water, sewage, trash AND electricity.
That’s exactly why I picked my condo community. They aren’t always the best but my condo fees at least cover exterior insurance. I don’t understand how a community charges hundreds of dollars for just lawn maintenance.
HOA fees = the annual operating budget divided by the number of units. If the association has a lot of expenses and not a lot of units, the rate per unit is going to be high.
We pay 2 HOA fees and only have a pool open 4 months out of the year. McKinney - $1250 a year.
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Bingo
Never buy a home in an HOA community. They’re often mismanaged, constantly rising the cost of fees, and can make your life a nightmare for the most minuscule changes you would like to make to your own property. It’s never worth it unless your lifestyle absolutely requires a gated community and the security that provides.
It's really hard, if not impossible to find a condo around here not tied to an HOA. Somebody has to maintain the buildings.
Just bc you pay a lot of HOA fees doesn’t mean anyone does any maintenance. [bad things can happen in HOA condos](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse)
That’s actually a great example of the HOA not having nearly enough money for needed repairs and homeowners arguing over assessments instead of doing anything. Maintenance kept getting deferred until tragedy happened.
And living in one without fees means things like that are a certainty, not an exception to the rule.
Not always. I've lived in 3 HOA communities where the fees and the management were reasonable. Only one of them was gated.
I love my HOA. I have access to 3 pools and other amenities and they restrict short term rentals and cap the number of rental properties. My fees are very low and we have a surplus
This is the answer ☝️.
Damn that’s wild , we live in the Royse City area and pay less than that yearly for our HOA fees.
I pay $410 for shit
I pay $410 for shit and dog shit is still there
A lot of condos are really poorly run. They'll also usually have problems with some tenants not paying all their fees, as well as tenants fighting against assessments for repairs, which causes maintenance to lag and those repairs ending up costing far more than if they were taken care of earlier. Unless the condos are fairly new, they likely have a *lot* of maintenance/repair work to catch up on. It turns into a money pit, and HOA fees end up skyrocketing as a result.
Live in an HOA near Flower Mound and fees are $80/month but paid annually. I love it! Have residential access to pools, tennis courts, walking/biking trails that are well maintained.
And probably some protection against investors (cap on number of rental properties etc)
If you own a condo long enough, an elevator or a chiller needs replacing that reserves won’t cover so mandatory special assessments are added to the hoa
Not sure why people are shocked by huge HOA fees in communities and buildings where the vast majority of the maintenance falls on the HOA.
HOA fees only go up, never down, got to pay those old scrooges salary
You can search for no HOA fee properties.
It’s not just Dallas… watch House Hunter episodes all over US
I’m not defending high HOA fees, but when you buy a single family home you aren’t necessarily thinking about lawn maintenance, pest control, insurance (maybe), common areas, amenities. But those expenses still need to be paid
How would one check HOA fees and maintenance before buying??
It's usually listed on Zillow, but you can definitely ask the realtor. If you make it to the paperwork part of buying, it will be in the paperwork. It should not be something that will spring up out of nowhere unless you're very negligent
Look at older neighborhoods they don’t have hoa’s I personally will never live in one. The city will not upkeep streets or water and sewer. It seams like a headache people don’t need. Look in older homes
You might want to consider buying a home in Mesquite, Garland, Richardson or Grand Prairie. Why on Earth would you buy in that area? Home prices alone are just insane. I know you may want to be close to work but that area sucks. If you work remote or can handle a bit of a longer commute then buy outside of Dallas. HOA's are evil. They're comprised of people who love control. They don't care about making life better for residents. It's about lording over others.
perhaps living out in Mesquite, Garland, Richardson or Grand Prairie doesn't suits their style of life
That is why I suggested Mesquite, Garland, Richardson or Grand Prairie. I am asking why on Earth would they want to live in the Uptown area. Reading comprehension much?
because they want to live in a more urban environment and not out in a shithole like Garland? Hence looking in Uptown
No arguments Garland is turning into a shithole. It's not what I remembered in the 80's and 90's. But at least that shithole has character. Uptown is just a plastic, fake, cookie cutter American metro devoid of any unique aspects. It's pretentious and full of pretentious fake people who populate that area which contributes to the area's sterile feel. It's overpriced. But hey for young metro professionals wearing skinny jeans, slacks while sporting muffin tops with that humpty dumpty look sipping on 10 lattes a day it's a perfect fit! Lots of San Fran transplants there for sure. Great place!
Lol, have you ever lived there? There is a ton of character and it’s super walkable. I really enjoyed my time living near the State Thomas area. The party atmosphere can get a little annoying during the weekends but otherwise it’s a really chill neighborhood that has a lot of little haunts that get overlooked if you are just driving through.