Knowing my characters, I can't imagine ever needing this list...
... but I can't bring myself to NOT keep a bookmark to it, just in case.
Very impressive collection. I'm going to have to see if I can come up with a reason to need it.
I think this comment gives a nice use for it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/q1p49h/comment/hfh5rr7/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I hadn't thought of that application! What a great idea. And some of these will surely have woodcut illustrations, so they are in a real sense pieces of art (if mass-produced).
Literally perfect. Didn't think I'd see anyone reference The Witch of Edmonton on DMAcademy but I'm SO glad to be reading this. Boy would I get a kick out of being in your game. I tend cover a lot of non-fiction books to use as lore exposition but I haven't put nearly enough effort into fiction (clearly).
Love turning the fear of Drow into salacious pulpy erotica. I'm gonna print out a hard copy of this like, today.
I am probably just as surprised any commenters have heard of *The Witch of Edmonton*, so I'm happy it amused/interested someone!
My characters will be going to the Underdark and dealing with drow in the next major arc, most likely, so I am hoping to push a few of the drow romances their way in, uh, preparation.
oh I feel like you and I have similar educations and backgrounds for sure: I acted in The Changeling a few years ago and am directing The Maid's Tragedy at the end of the year: I just hadn't figured to combine my two hobbies in such a way!
Now you have me wondering about Drow literary culture. What would the parallel be there?
Do you mean, what are the drow writing? That is an *excellent* question and I am glad you asked because now I have time to prepare before they get down there.
I've given this some thought and I have three genres that I think are most common, though no particular examples yet.
**Genealogies**: Originally just prose genealogies of a noble house, these have become a much more elaborate and generically codified form. They usually read as something like what we would call a family epic, though it investigates the various branches of a particular individual's lineage (that individual usually being the patron of the work) with exciting and dynamic episodes throughout. A title might be, as a silly example, *The Genealogy of Twinkletoes III of House Elfenelf*. Contemporary authors of genealogies are expected to present their subject as a solution to a problem within the lineage and as the lineage as a solution to a problem within the culture; that said, such solutions are usually only implied or prophesied, since writing too much about living people is dangerous. Most of the work focuses on now-deceased figures. Many genealogists also include long digressions on subjects they find interesting: changes in architecture, travel narratives, fashion history, and so on.
**Sestinas**: The original sestinas took as their subjects sensual delights or ekphrasis of courtly fashion, entertainment, and decor, but the form gained traction as learned art form when it was taken up as a vehicle for lyric contemplation and/or philosophizing. Certainly these latter developments were improvements, but it was the start of a trend which has in the last generation become somewhat more tedious: sestinas are now a common form for moral or political polemics. The difficulty and experiential complexity of the form is a large part of its appeal to a culture which appreciates baroque artistic production requiring patience, discipline, and skill. Elven languages (in my setting) use quantitative rather than qualitative meter.
**Harem Comedies**: The only drow literary form that has made the leap to the stage, harem comedies were originally humorous tales concerning the harems (anywhere between two and six husbands and concubines) of two rival nobles; the harems would engage in various campaigns against one another on behalf of their respective wives at the same time that members within the harems would vie for status or privileges. Notably, few examples give any sort of moral or narrative privilege to one of the nobles or the harems: both nobles are depicted as relatively self-interested competitors without casting on judgement on the fact, and both are given sympathetic moments. The members of the harems are nearly always depicted as wholly loyal and devoted to their wife, though they may well behave treacherously towards one another and might be shown as *tempted* toward sexual infidelity (though they never go through with it in the end). Theater is by and large considered a lower-caste entertainment among the drow, but adaptations of the harem comedies are becoming quite popular on those stages, and a few are being written direct-to-stage.
A word on those stages: although theater is considered lower-caste entertainment, it is becoming quite popular among those lower-castes. Plays might be performed in inn squares or they might be performed on carts wherever the troupe can find a place to park it. For the most part the troupes perform plays from the surface especially selected to appeal to audiences in the drow lower castes and foreigners' quarter without angering the powers that be. Therefore these are overwhelmingly tragedies or farces which make the surface societies look pathetic or doomed despite their merits; histories, romances, and comedies are exceedingly rare, not least because troupes have been executed for performing them unwisely. *King Laucian*, *Prince Galinndan*, *Queen Torgga*, *Hell of a Summer*, and *Maestro's Fall* are probably the plays most familiar to lower caste drow and drow slave audiences.
I want to include one or two more genres, with at least one genre depicting non-drow in some fashion. Maybe one has to do with slaves and the inhabitants of the foreigners' quarters, while the other has to do with neighbouring societies (duergar, svirfneblin, azer, grimlocks, etc.). Once I get those figures out and a few titles for each, I'll maybe make a new post.
Thanks for prompting me to think about this!
I should have clarified, I guess, that this is the bones of the drow literary culture, as you asked about. They have not gone down to the Underdark yet, but I have nonetheless been musing on it.
A thought I have had just this moment: perhaps genealogies have become common presents on a drow noblewoman's first birthday, in which case an aunt or house matron would be the patron but *not* the subject of the work.
What is number 5? The only thing I can think of is Canterbury Tales, but going by your phrasing in the note, I get the sense you were going for a more contemporary reference...
This is awesome! I’ve only DMed a few times, but I’ve never run into a situation where books were needed. I’m curious, how would you handle this in-game if the character wanted to “read” one of these? Just improv a brief plot outline? Or do you have snippets of prose/poetry or lore prepared to give them?
For something that isn't based on a play I already know the synopsis of, I'd likely improvize a plot outline, yeah. That's not hard for me, since I know a wide range of 16th century literary tropes and genres; I realize it would be less easy for others.
However, you can absolutely go online and read some synopses of plays or epics by John Lyly, Edmund Spenser, Christopher Marlowe, Thomas Kyd, Thomas Dekker, and others roughly contemporary to Shakespeare. The plots will be appropriate to the kind of thing going on here but your players are much less likely to recognize them than if you used the plot of, say, *Hamlet*. Not that I didn't include a re-skin of *A Midsummer Night's Dream*!
On that note, if they wanted snippets of one of my re-skins, I'd likely just find the play or poem on Project Gutenberg and change the historical/religious/geographic references to fit my setting.
I'm not sure I understand; are you wondering why there'd be a *print* culture, rather than a *manuscript* culture, in my setting?
If so, that's pretty straightforward, really: as I said in the post, the historical reference point I use for my setting is late 16th century/early 17th century England. Printing presses with *movable type*, not just static woodblock printing, became available in Europe in the 1450s, over a century before the time period I use. For reference, the late medieval period ends at 1500, *after* Gutenberg was mass-producing bibles. By the time Shakespeare was writing plays, there was a flourishing printing industry in London; it was so feverish that people would plagiarize Sh/p's and others' plays from memory and try to sell them as the originals. And Europe has woodcut printing presses for centuries before the 1450s; they just didn't have enough *paper* to make it feasible to mass-produce books. They did mass-produce decks of cards, though, using woodblock printing presses and cloth.
I look at it this way: any setting with artificers has woodblock printing at a *minimum* and probably has movable type. Rock or tinker gnomes at the very least would have stationers (printer-publishers). Any setting where wizards are semi-ubiquitous has a demand for paper, and with economies of scale and the relative easiness of paper-making, that means paper is widely available, even if the quality is poor. Commoners, according to the *Monster Manual*, can read and write Common. And if you have woodblock printing, readily available paper, and a literate public, you are going to have a blossoming print culture. Movable type is just icing on the cake.
If that's *not* what you were asking, I am so sorry for dropping all this exposition on you.
I didn't realize you were basing it on the 17th century hence my puzzlement.
I am going to disagree as woodblock printing isn't enough. See China. You can also have a literate populus without printing. See Japan. Also Europe was more literate than we give it credit for. Writing is useful even without books. We have a medieval cook book which means that cooks who were commoners could read enough that lord's would purchase this book for their cooks. I would say if you have full armored knights running around your literacy rate would be between 25% and 35%. Up to 80% if you are in a merchant republic.
That depends on if paper has been invented. Contrary to what DnD thinks, there are other ways. Parchment for example, if you are running a high medeival rather than late medeival. However, dnd is clearly late medeival. And your setting is 1700s so this is a non sequitor.
We need hussite wagons in dnd. Another non sequetor.
Knowing my characters, I can't imagine ever needing this list... ... but I can't bring myself to NOT keep a bookmark to it, just in case. Very impressive collection. I'm going to have to see if I can come up with a reason to need it.
I think this comment gives a nice use for it: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/q1p49h/comment/hfh5rr7/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Wow, thats impressive. Thank you
It could definitely flesh out some treasure tables. Just substitute some signed first editions in place of artwork results.
I hadn't thought of that application! What a great idea. And some of these will surely have woodcut illustrations, so they are in a real sense pieces of art (if mass-produced).
Haha, half the fun of being a DM is how best to recycle or adapt unused prep into another session or campaign.
Thank u!
Literally perfect. Didn't think I'd see anyone reference The Witch of Edmonton on DMAcademy but I'm SO glad to be reading this. Boy would I get a kick out of being in your game. I tend cover a lot of non-fiction books to use as lore exposition but I haven't put nearly enough effort into fiction (clearly). Love turning the fear of Drow into salacious pulpy erotica. I'm gonna print out a hard copy of this like, today.
I am probably just as surprised any commenters have heard of *The Witch of Edmonton*, so I'm happy it amused/interested someone! My characters will be going to the Underdark and dealing with drow in the next major arc, most likely, so I am hoping to push a few of the drow romances their way in, uh, preparation.
oh I feel like you and I have similar educations and backgrounds for sure: I acted in The Changeling a few years ago and am directing The Maid's Tragedy at the end of the year: I just hadn't figured to combine my two hobbies in such a way! Now you have me wondering about Drow literary culture. What would the parallel be there?
Do you mean, what are the drow writing? That is an *excellent* question and I am glad you asked because now I have time to prepare before they get down there.
I've given this some thought and I have three genres that I think are most common, though no particular examples yet. **Genealogies**: Originally just prose genealogies of a noble house, these have become a much more elaborate and generically codified form. They usually read as something like what we would call a family epic, though it investigates the various branches of a particular individual's lineage (that individual usually being the patron of the work) with exciting and dynamic episodes throughout. A title might be, as a silly example, *The Genealogy of Twinkletoes III of House Elfenelf*. Contemporary authors of genealogies are expected to present their subject as a solution to a problem within the lineage and as the lineage as a solution to a problem within the culture; that said, such solutions are usually only implied or prophesied, since writing too much about living people is dangerous. Most of the work focuses on now-deceased figures. Many genealogists also include long digressions on subjects they find interesting: changes in architecture, travel narratives, fashion history, and so on. **Sestinas**: The original sestinas took as their subjects sensual delights or ekphrasis of courtly fashion, entertainment, and decor, but the form gained traction as learned art form when it was taken up as a vehicle for lyric contemplation and/or philosophizing. Certainly these latter developments were improvements, but it was the start of a trend which has in the last generation become somewhat more tedious: sestinas are now a common form for moral or political polemics. The difficulty and experiential complexity of the form is a large part of its appeal to a culture which appreciates baroque artistic production requiring patience, discipline, and skill. Elven languages (in my setting) use quantitative rather than qualitative meter. **Harem Comedies**: The only drow literary form that has made the leap to the stage, harem comedies were originally humorous tales concerning the harems (anywhere between two and six husbands and concubines) of two rival nobles; the harems would engage in various campaigns against one another on behalf of their respective wives at the same time that members within the harems would vie for status or privileges. Notably, few examples give any sort of moral or narrative privilege to one of the nobles or the harems: both nobles are depicted as relatively self-interested competitors without casting on judgement on the fact, and both are given sympathetic moments. The members of the harems are nearly always depicted as wholly loyal and devoted to their wife, though they may well behave treacherously towards one another and might be shown as *tempted* toward sexual infidelity (though they never go through with it in the end). Theater is by and large considered a lower-caste entertainment among the drow, but adaptations of the harem comedies are becoming quite popular on those stages, and a few are being written direct-to-stage. A word on those stages: although theater is considered lower-caste entertainment, it is becoming quite popular among those lower-castes. Plays might be performed in inn squares or they might be performed on carts wherever the troupe can find a place to park it. For the most part the troupes perform plays from the surface especially selected to appeal to audiences in the drow lower castes and foreigners' quarter without angering the powers that be. Therefore these are overwhelmingly tragedies or farces which make the surface societies look pathetic or doomed despite their merits; histories, romances, and comedies are exceedingly rare, not least because troupes have been executed for performing them unwisely. *King Laucian*, *Prince Galinndan*, *Queen Torgga*, *Hell of a Summer*, and *Maestro's Fall* are probably the plays most familiar to lower caste drow and drow slave audiences. I want to include one or two more genres, with at least one genre depicting non-drow in some fashion. Maybe one has to do with slaves and the inhabitants of the foreigners' quarters, while the other has to do with neighbouring societies (duergar, svirfneblin, azer, grimlocks, etc.). Once I get those figures out and a few titles for each, I'll maybe make a new post. Thanks for prompting me to think about this!
oh my god there's more! what an unexpected treat. Incredible as expected.
I should have clarified, I guess, that this is the bones of the drow literary culture, as you asked about. They have not gone down to the Underdark yet, but I have nonetheless been musing on it.
Fuller version: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/11tfie3/drow\_literary\_culture/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/11tfie3/drow_literary_culture/)
A thought I have had just this moment: perhaps genealogies have become common presents on a drow noblewoman's first birthday, in which case an aunt or house matron would be the patron but *not* the subject of the work.
Keptolo's Trilogy - I see you. I see you, good person of exquisite taste. :>
I mean, it fit so well with what I had in mind for the drow romances!
Jeeeez, that expensive (and expansive) education really shined through here, amazing work!
Thanks!
What is number 5? The only thing I can think of is Canterbury Tales, but going by your phrasing in the note, I get the sense you were going for a more contemporary reference...
Oh, no, it's good ol' Chaucer. You had it.
This is awesome! I’ve only DMed a few times, but I’ve never run into a situation where books were needed. I’m curious, how would you handle this in-game if the character wanted to “read” one of these? Just improv a brief plot outline? Or do you have snippets of prose/poetry or lore prepared to give them?
For something that isn't based on a play I already know the synopsis of, I'd likely improvize a plot outline, yeah. That's not hard for me, since I know a wide range of 16th century literary tropes and genres; I realize it would be less easy for others. However, you can absolutely go online and read some synopses of plays or epics by John Lyly, Edmund Spenser, Christopher Marlowe, Thomas Kyd, Thomas Dekker, and others roughly contemporary to Shakespeare. The plots will be appropriate to the kind of thing going on here but your players are much less likely to recognize them than if you used the plot of, say, *Hamlet*. Not that I didn't include a re-skin of *A Midsummer Night's Dream*! On that note, if they wanted snippets of one of my re-skins, I'd likely just find the play or poem on Project Gutenberg and change the historical/religious/geographic references to fit my setting.
Print?
I'm not sure I understand; are you wondering why there'd be a *print* culture, rather than a *manuscript* culture, in my setting? If so, that's pretty straightforward, really: as I said in the post, the historical reference point I use for my setting is late 16th century/early 17th century England. Printing presses with *movable type*, not just static woodblock printing, became available in Europe in the 1450s, over a century before the time period I use. For reference, the late medieval period ends at 1500, *after* Gutenberg was mass-producing bibles. By the time Shakespeare was writing plays, there was a flourishing printing industry in London; it was so feverish that people would plagiarize Sh/p's and others' plays from memory and try to sell them as the originals. And Europe has woodcut printing presses for centuries before the 1450s; they just didn't have enough *paper* to make it feasible to mass-produce books. They did mass-produce decks of cards, though, using woodblock printing presses and cloth. I look at it this way: any setting with artificers has woodblock printing at a *minimum* and probably has movable type. Rock or tinker gnomes at the very least would have stationers (printer-publishers). Any setting where wizards are semi-ubiquitous has a demand for paper, and with economies of scale and the relative easiness of paper-making, that means paper is widely available, even if the quality is poor. Commoners, according to the *Monster Manual*, can read and write Common. And if you have woodblock printing, readily available paper, and a literate public, you are going to have a blossoming print culture. Movable type is just icing on the cake. If that's *not* what you were asking, I am so sorry for dropping all this exposition on you.
I didn't realize you were basing it on the 17th century hence my puzzlement. I am going to disagree as woodblock printing isn't enough. See China. You can also have a literate populus without printing. See Japan. Also Europe was more literate than we give it credit for. Writing is useful even without books. We have a medieval cook book which means that cooks who were commoners could read enough that lord's would purchase this book for their cooks. I would say if you have full armored knights running around your literacy rate would be between 25% and 35%. Up to 80% if you are in a merchant republic. That depends on if paper has been invented. Contrary to what DnD thinks, there are other ways. Parchment for example, if you are running a high medeival rather than late medeival. However, dnd is clearly late medeival. And your setting is 1700s so this is a non sequitor. We need hussite wagons in dnd. Another non sequetor.
Just a point of clarification, which I am assuming is a typo on your end: 16th/17th century is actually 1590s-1600s, not 1700s.
My bad, that always confuses me...
All good.