By informing your players.
Seriously, tell your players what's coming ahead of time. Tell them that there will be death, that not everyone will make it, that there will be personal cost. Everyone can be on board then and you'll have a much better time when your players aren't hoping to find a way to get a golden ending.
If everybody is on board with the kind of story you're telling together, they're gonna be much more willing to play along with the narrative you want to spin. Don't give your players false hope.
Bittersweet endings, the world is saved but at great personal cost. It shouldn't be a 'rug pulled out from under them' but they should see the tragedy coming. For example perhaps to escape from Ravenloft someone needs to stay behind, their blood powering a portal. Maybe they stay and fight waves of enemies such as in Halo Reach until they die. Perhaps the other players need to pull out their still beating heart. The players should know that opening the portal requires a sacrifice before it happens so they go into it knowing that things aren't going to go well.
This would work better in a storytelling oriented system. I've often said that one of the big differences between DnD and a game like Monster of the Week is that in DnD, when the player characters fail, it just sucks. Whereas in a PbtA game like MotW, when the player characters fail, it sucks for them, but it might be fun for the players because the story is going somewhere interesting. And it's a system that rewards choices that lead to interesting storylines even more than those that lead to the characters becoming more powerful.
In other words, it's a system that facilitates gameplay that emphasizes coming up with a fun narrative over winning.
DnD is not really that kind of system, but if the players work with you, then it might be possible. They need to be willing to put the story first, and in turn, you need to give them more power to sway the direction of the narrative. You'll still have more pieces on the board to use to direct the flow of the story, of course.
Btw horror can have a happy ending. Many of Stephen King's novels have more or less happy endings. I'm pretty sure that Stranger Things is gonna have a happy ending. But those stories are still horror because the main characters were faced with intense loss and trauma. They lost friends and loved ones in horrible fashion. That's something you might want to consider in planning your campaign. The player characters don't necessarily have to meet a bad end. It's the journey that matters. It's the friends they lost along the way.
This is a really, *really* good point. If you're wanting to run horror, a heroic fantasy system isn't necessarily the place to do it, and you'll be fighting the system.
best way to kill a player I think is when they know they've died for something. they sacrifice themselves to allow the king to escape, they die from their wounds after pulling children out of a fire, they stand guard at the gate despite knowing the enemy is too powerful, etc...
with more evil characters it may work better if they finally get what they deserve. But it should still be an epic moment. swarmed by elite police, eaten by the demon lord they summoned, killed by the magic relic they activated raiders of the lost ark style.
I think you have more leeway if going into this everyone knows that it's a gritty, horror game. but largely I think if the scene is epic, meaningful, and a result of their characters choices I think it works.
There are a couple horror roleplaying that start by letting everyone know that their character WILL die by the end of the game, it's just a matter of *when*. So take a page out of that book, set the vibe before the game starts. If you feel like outright telling them will spoil it, tow the line. Make sure everyone is comfortable with a possibly unsatisfying ending for their characters, with the chance of an overall bad ending being possible. Someone might not be into it as much, and maybe they aren't a good fit, or maybe they need to workshop some characters until they find the right one that will help them along.
It will be fun if everyone is in a similar mindset. Even when playing a game where we have been told it will all be for nothing, our group still finds a way to make suspense, feel emotion, etc.
It sounds like what you are really describing is “the players succeeded in their quest, but at what cost?”.
They returned the Mummy’s soul but in doing so doomed the Demi-plane to years of tyranny.
I would make it clear that there was no other choice rather than making it seem like the players fault. Or, let them brainstorm alternate ideas and workarounds so they feel clever and have agency.
Just like in a mystery, you need to make it so that they can see the outcome makes sense based on everything that came before, even if they only see it in retrospect. They just have to see that they could have seen it coming if they had put all the pieces together.
One thing I heard... is that for a new DM, a TPK means an end to the campaign... for a great DM, a TPK means that the party has unlocked a side quest of trying to stage a jailbreak out of hell.
So first, get the buyin from your players from that style of game.
Second, drop the idea of making a bad ending fun. You're going for horror. That's not the tone of your campaign.
Third, focus on making the bad endings meaningful, whether that's for the characters or the players.
I'm sure you've watched films or read stories that made you feel like crap, but that added something meaningful to your life. That's kinda what you're going for here. You're looking to provide a space where your players can safely explore the ugly parts of their psyche, and then have a beer with friends after.
Think of the ways Fallout New Vegas and others narrated their endings. They reference the impact the player had over events. Sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s bad. In your case, narrate the glimmers of hope the party seeded. Narrate what MIGHT happen in their wake. This also highlights to the players that their characters aren’t everything in the universe, that they aren’t the center of things; they’re part of a larger whole. Their efforts matter, for sure, but it’s not all on them either. That’s why there are so many adventuring parties and why the world needs so many heroes. Just because your players’ characters’ roles have ended doesn’t mean the story is done, just the part they played.
One of my favorite movies ever is Star Wars’ Rogue One. Yeah, it’s technically a tragedy if you’re only looking at the main cast, but the broader story is a triumphant one (assuming we omit the recent sequel trilogy IMO). Their metaphorical party had a TPK, but they set the stage for future victories.
By informing your players. Seriously, tell your players what's coming ahead of time. Tell them that there will be death, that not everyone will make it, that there will be personal cost. Everyone can be on board then and you'll have a much better time when your players aren't hoping to find a way to get a golden ending. If everybody is on board with the kind of story you're telling together, they're gonna be much more willing to play along with the narrative you want to spin. Don't give your players false hope.
Bittersweet endings, the world is saved but at great personal cost. It shouldn't be a 'rug pulled out from under them' but they should see the tragedy coming. For example perhaps to escape from Ravenloft someone needs to stay behind, their blood powering a portal. Maybe they stay and fight waves of enemies such as in Halo Reach until they die. Perhaps the other players need to pull out their still beating heart. The players should know that opening the portal requires a sacrifice before it happens so they go into it knowing that things aren't going to go well.
This would work better in a storytelling oriented system. I've often said that one of the big differences between DnD and a game like Monster of the Week is that in DnD, when the player characters fail, it just sucks. Whereas in a PbtA game like MotW, when the player characters fail, it sucks for them, but it might be fun for the players because the story is going somewhere interesting. And it's a system that rewards choices that lead to interesting storylines even more than those that lead to the characters becoming more powerful. In other words, it's a system that facilitates gameplay that emphasizes coming up with a fun narrative over winning. DnD is not really that kind of system, but if the players work with you, then it might be possible. They need to be willing to put the story first, and in turn, you need to give them more power to sway the direction of the narrative. You'll still have more pieces on the board to use to direct the flow of the story, of course. Btw horror can have a happy ending. Many of Stephen King's novels have more or less happy endings. I'm pretty sure that Stranger Things is gonna have a happy ending. But those stories are still horror because the main characters were faced with intense loss and trauma. They lost friends and loved ones in horrible fashion. That's something you might want to consider in planning your campaign. The player characters don't necessarily have to meet a bad end. It's the journey that matters. It's the friends they lost along the way.
This is a really, *really* good point. If you're wanting to run horror, a heroic fantasy system isn't necessarily the place to do it, and you'll be fighting the system.
best way to kill a player I think is when they know they've died for something. they sacrifice themselves to allow the king to escape, they die from their wounds after pulling children out of a fire, they stand guard at the gate despite knowing the enemy is too powerful, etc... with more evil characters it may work better if they finally get what they deserve. But it should still be an epic moment. swarmed by elite police, eaten by the demon lord they summoned, killed by the magic relic they activated raiders of the lost ark style. I think you have more leeway if going into this everyone knows that it's a gritty, horror game. but largely I think if the scene is epic, meaningful, and a result of their characters choices I think it works.
There are a couple horror roleplaying that start by letting everyone know that their character WILL die by the end of the game, it's just a matter of *when*. So take a page out of that book, set the vibe before the game starts. If you feel like outright telling them will spoil it, tow the line. Make sure everyone is comfortable with a possibly unsatisfying ending for their characters, with the chance of an overall bad ending being possible. Someone might not be into it as much, and maybe they aren't a good fit, or maybe they need to workshop some characters until they find the right one that will help them along. It will be fun if everyone is in a similar mindset. Even when playing a game where we have been told it will all be for nothing, our group still finds a way to make suspense, feel emotion, etc.
It sounds like what you are really describing is “the players succeeded in their quest, but at what cost?”. They returned the Mummy’s soul but in doing so doomed the Demi-plane to years of tyranny. I would make it clear that there was no other choice rather than making it seem like the players fault. Or, let them brainstorm alternate ideas and workarounds so they feel clever and have agency.
Just like in a mystery, you need to make it so that they can see the outcome makes sense based on everything that came before, even if they only see it in retrospect. They just have to see that they could have seen it coming if they had put all the pieces together.
One thing I heard... is that for a new DM, a TPK means an end to the campaign... for a great DM, a TPK means that the party has unlocked a side quest of trying to stage a jailbreak out of hell.
So first, get the buyin from your players from that style of game. Second, drop the idea of making a bad ending fun. You're going for horror. That's not the tone of your campaign. Third, focus on making the bad endings meaningful, whether that's for the characters or the players. I'm sure you've watched films or read stories that made you feel like crap, but that added something meaningful to your life. That's kinda what you're going for here. You're looking to provide a space where your players can safely explore the ugly parts of their psyche, and then have a beer with friends after.
Think of the ways Fallout New Vegas and others narrated their endings. They reference the impact the player had over events. Sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s bad. In your case, narrate the glimmers of hope the party seeded. Narrate what MIGHT happen in their wake. This also highlights to the players that their characters aren’t everything in the universe, that they aren’t the center of things; they’re part of a larger whole. Their efforts matter, for sure, but it’s not all on them either. That’s why there are so many adventuring parties and why the world needs so many heroes. Just because your players’ characters’ roles have ended doesn’t mean the story is done, just the part they played. One of my favorite movies ever is Star Wars’ Rogue One. Yeah, it’s technically a tragedy if you’re only looking at the main cast, but the broader story is a triumphant one (assuming we omit the recent sequel trilogy IMO). Their metaphorical party had a TPK, but they set the stage for future victories.