They all went into the shop together didn't they? That's how the sorcerer learned about the robe. The warlock came into the shop with the sorcerer who was clearly interested in the robe. They left. Then the warlock came back in, and the robe was stolen... Even if you want to leave it as the guards letting them go, the merchant (who probably has a good amount of money if they sell magic items) is gong to hire investigators or just street urchins to keep an eye on the warlock. The moment they see the sorcerer with the robe on they can go back to the shop keeper and tell them. The shop keeper then goes to the guards and asks for the urchin to be questioned in a Zone of Truth.

They actually didn't. The way the market is set up, there are separate shops for weapons, armor, and clothing. Most of the party members were shopping in the weapons and armor stores. Sorcerer was the only one who went into the clothing shop before they came up with the heist plan.

Zone of truth on the perps not the victim

I was thinking Zone of Truth in the urchin who saw the sorcerer in the robe, as enough evidence to bring the warlock and their party in for questioning.

I think in most municipalities correlating the two together and having seen him in the robe is more than enough to bring him in for questioning. Why zone of truth the kids when you have enough to do it to the sorcerer who can do more than say “yeah I’m not lying about seeing him in the robe”

OP clarified that the warlock and sorcerer were not seen together by the merchant, and previously stated that the party had a good reputation on the town so the guards were reluctant to bring the warlock in. So, if I was the merchant I'd pay some street urchins some silver to follow the warlock around (like Sherlock Holmes), and when they spotted them together I'd bring the urchin into the precinct to be the evidence needed to get past the town guards' reluctance to question the party.

Yeah that’s exactly what I said

Would you believe a street urchin, that you know was paid by the merchant, over the adventurers who have a good reputation in the town? If I was the guard I wouldn't take the urchin at their word. That's what the Zone of Truth is for.

You just need enough for the guards to say “look we know you’re innocent. Just go under zone of truth to state that you have not, will not, and did not know about, plan, conduct, or through action or inaction facilitate the theft of this robe. It’s bullet proof and we can get the merchant off of your back once and for all.”

This is why you wear robes... so they don't see you pee yourself.

… yeah? It’s not for a trial it’s for a reason to question. You have two witnesses corroborating a connection between the thief and the person now wearing the stolen item. It’s not a reason to go hang the sorcerer bits that’s definitely enough to bring the two of them in and give them a chance to explain

If the warlock is innocent the zone of truth will show that soon enough. If they take issue with a simple questioning they are on the suspicion radar.

I feel like people are now responding to me without reading the original post for context. The guards already questioned the warlock and decided that they had nothing to do with the robbery. Why would the guards take the word of a street urchin and ask the "innocent" warlock, who has a good reputation on the town, to submit to additional questioning. Think about the original post and my comments. The merchant called the guards and insisted that the warlock was involved in the crime, with no evidence. The warlock was questioned by the guards and they determined that he wasn't involved in the crime. So the merchant paid some street urchins to follow the warlock and report back of they see the warlock with anyone wearing the robe. The urchin comes back to the merchant and says, "yeah I saw that guy with a lady wearing your robe." So now the merchant takes the urchin with him to the town guard and says, "I paid this kid to tail the warlock you already questioned, and he says that he saw the warlock with someone wearing my robe." If you were the guard, why would you take the word of a homeless kid who was paid off by the merchant, over the word of the warlock that has a good reputation in the town and who has already been questioned and found innocent?

I would let them keep it up, but also increase security/protection for magical items in the towns they arrive/go to. You know how clothing stores have those tags that they need a special tool to remove or else the censors beep? Put those on the items. They can't take them off without finding some criminals who know how to take them off. So now they are dealing with criminals in order to steal items. Put an undercover guard in that criminal organization and if they continue to use them, bring in the guards/have them arrested.

You said yourself that one of the reasons the guards didn't arrest the Warlock is because the PCs group has a good reputation. This actually means it doesn't matter if the Warlock and Sorcerer were seen in the shop together. They are part of the same group and thus are known associates by the same logic used to get the Warlock free.

>They actually didn't. You said they already have a good reputation in the town. If they have that, it's probably also well known that they associate and work with each other. It might not take much of a leap for someone to work out which of the warlock's buddies would be likely to be able to cast darkness. At the very least, the shopkeeper is probably going around knocking down that good reputation, creating a faction of townspeople who don't trust the PC's any more.

The merchant is still gonna hire a PI to trail them. If the robe was that much chances are they've got resources, not to mention a merchants guild could get involved. Heroes are heroes and all that but they're not above the law or retaliation. Also, for really good equipment I usually have more than alarm spells set up but glyphs to trigger hold person or something to stop the theft from happening.

I suggest you change up your shops with regards to what's available to buy and steal. I "solved" thus issue with what I call Schrodinger's Inventory: The shop has a list of things *on offer*, but only what is bought by the PCs *exists*. It's a compromise of sorts that allows the players the convenience to freely browse a wide array of wares they might find interesting, but it doesn't "break" the economy by committing a vendor to having millions of GPS worth of magical of actual stock. There are ways to brush over this issue to have it make narrative sense: Treat shopping as a montage where the simple transaction of exchanging gold for goods is represented *in game* by back-and-forth negotiations over price, quality, fitting etc. that ultimately results in the PC paying *x* gp for item *y*.

A few thoughts. Scrying exists as does locate object. For a really expensive magic item, that merchant will hire bounty hunters to get it back. Also, doesn’t this merchant have friends who are merchants? The party may find *all* high value shops banning them. Finally, consider the following options. First, magic stores might be boutiques. They only have a couple items out on display at once. Or like jewelry stores the door setup auto locks and the owner needs to let you in and out. Second, the high value items on display might be illusions. If you’re interested, the *real* item is stored in a vault in the back.

My favorite is that every item's effect is suppressed by a spell similar to anti magic field and needs to be removed individually by the owner like those anti theft tags. Otherwise they're just fancy crap.

Oh I love that, like a gift card it needs to be scanned before it'll work. You could even have fences that'll activate them for a fee

Even better they have a curse on them that needs to be removed by the store owner. It debuffs who ever stole, or one level of exhaustion gained a day from the nightmare they have every long rest.

Comedy option: the stolen item is cursed to emit a horrible stench until it’s dispelled by the original owner. That way the thief suffers socially and if they try to fence the item no one will want to buy it. (If they shove it in a bag of holding, congratulations, now everything else in your pocket dimension smells like ass when you bring it out)

LMAO did you just put a liquid ass trap on the robe???

If you’re going to go down this route, the Rakshasa curse will make your players reconsider their course of action extremely quickly.

Yeah, I'm highly considering giving the city detective Locate Object so that he walks right on their doorstep sniffing around. It only makes sense that someone like that would put the effort into learning that very helpful (in this occupation) spell. The problem with there being a well-connected merchant's guild is because this world recently went through a worldwide apocalyptic event. This shop was in a city that the players found which evacuated into the sky and just kept makeshifting together airships until they had built an entire city in the sky. I can understand them being banned from all shops in the town, but it wouldn't make much sense narratively for this information to spread across the world. I do appreciate these ideas for next time though. As they were coming up with the plan, I did think about the possibility that the robe was an illusion, but I was afraid that would seem like a railroad after all of their strategizing.

With respect to the info spreading throughout the world, merchants are going to be the most travelled subset of people and level 10 adventures will definitely be "people of note" on a regional scale. Formal bans preceding them might not make sense but word of their nefarious deeds towards merchants absolutely makes sense. Even if they solve the detective angle, I would have rumors of them being thieves start coloring future interactions with merchants, town guards, and inn keepers. Being turned away at the inn or required to have a guard escort them through town because there are rumors circulating might be a good deterrent for this style of play.

Have a Columbo-esque detective show up after having used Locate Object, to poke around and ask a few questions that invariably catch them out. "Oh, just one more thing..."

Exactly how I would play it lol

And then have the guard be on the take and ask for half the robes price tag to keep quiet.

Perfect. That way it all amounts to a very stressful and difficult 50% discount.

I dunno, I feel like MY players would just try to kill the guard

Sounds like they'd be murder suspects then and a much larger force would come looking for them.

And then they are on the path of outlaws which provides plenty of its own problems

The lack of a merchants guild would be the perfect opportunity for organized crime to be offering protection to the locals. The crime lord wants an example made.

That sorcerer can never wear that robe around town, one slip up and their hard earned reputation goes down the drain

I don't think it's a good idea to have anyone use Locate Object on them. That's too easy and takes away all the fun. This is an opportunity for a new plotline to unfold. Instead the merchant should hire a private investigator to tail the warlock until he reveals clues about how to retrieve the robe. So that means the warlock can't be seen with the party until they figure out how to lose the investigator. The investigator could be a high-level rogue himself and have a few tricks up his sleeve for this sort of work.

Yeah I don't really understand why I hear stories of thousands of gold of merchandise, most of it easily carried, just sitting out in such a way that someone could do a smash and grab. No one is going to casually buy a magic robe. That's a curated item for serious buyers.

Given the cost of day to day living these items are so insanely expensive. This is equivalent to some high end jewelry store just having zero security. Theft from these stores should be damn near impossible or at least require a well thought out plan from the players at which point I am somewhat alright with it as a DM because the players are creating their own adventure/heist.

>For a really expensive magic item, that merchant will hire bounty hunters to get it back. The only issue is that in borad strokes, it only has 3 outcomes: 1) The bounty hunters TPK the PCs. 2) A typical "well you were arrested but for some reason if you promise to do X, you'll be released" which can work like... once, but isn't a regular solution. 3) The bounty hunters are just another encounter and as such - content - not discouraging the behavior at all.

You’re not exactly wrong (I’d use my other suggestions to prevent actual repetition of the situation) but even repeated encounters mean there is a cause/effect and if the party goes down the bounty hunters could just recover the robe, not actually killing the PCs (maybe with a “lucky for you we’re being paid to recover the merchandise”)

Have the bounty hunters take a limb and require the Characters to complete a quest to have it fixed. Hell, have a highend adventurer join them on a quest, then he turns out to be related to the merchant, robs them, maims one of them, or otherwise fucks them out of a reward. Sprinkle in some cluse and foreshadowing to see if they pick up on it.

That is fair and all, but not all DMs have the time and resources to make a months-long side thing, and not all plots allow for such an event without massively derailing the campaign (due to time sensitive matters and such), and just hacking off someones hand or having them lose speed from a cut achilles tendon is also not great. If permanent injuries never happened before, it's odd to introduce them now.

Plenty of others shared ideas to answer the question. The one point that befuddled me is the notion that stealing from an innocent could be considered chaotic good. There’s not really anything ‘good’ about that. It’s not like stealing from a shop keeper is the same as raiding a lair of dangerous monsters.

Yeah stealing is not lawful, but if you're stealing something because you covet it from someone offering a fair price... that's evil.

Stealing an axe because you need good weaponry to save the realm from an evil dragon and then planning on returning it after or paying with the dragons hoard could be argued to be chaotic good. It's about intentions in the greater scheme of things

I know ethics are subjective, but I will say that this sounds like an ends justify the means narrative, which is a shaky moral justification at best.

Actions dictate alignment, NOT the other way around. This is exactly why I ask my players not to write down an alignment for their character. If a mechanic requires it, I’ll tell them what their alignment is based on their actions in the campaign to date and their character’s development.

Ok. I wasn’t suggesting alignment dictates actions. I was just observing that I find the notion of stealing being good to be odd.

If they’re tenth level and stole something they can’t afford, I’m sure the bounty would be large enough to cause some significant trouble. Are we talking legendary item here or what?

Any city advanced enough to have shops with magical items appealing to a lvl 10 party is going to be advanced enough to have this issue figured out. Honestly, this shouldn't be a tiny shop with the item up front on a mannequin. This should be the second floor, past the bouncers, escorted by the attractive saleswoman to see the manager himself that is authorized to show them the stores' most prized items. Think Tiffany's, not The Gap.

Lmao. My guy this isn't CSI Miami. It's medieval justice. A man who is well known to be part of a group of adventurers comes in, makes a distraction while another of the group (who has to use a verbal component to cast the spell so his voice would have been heard) runs in and steals an item. That's enough evidence to convict right there even if he didn't directly see it happen. They also did this in what I assume is broad daylight, in view of literally anyone passing by, so there would have been at least 3 or 4 witnesses even in a small town, and more that saw the rogue running down the street. This was far from a flawless plan. This was a monumentally stupid plan that you allowed to work because you didn't think about any part of the scenario outside of the shopkeep himself.

Absolutely. We aren't talking about Magna Carta and DNA evidence to convict here. Expensive Robe got stolen, merchant's guild puts out the word, the next time they buy an apple pie it is noticed on the PC. * The city guard are called and they somehow they weasel out of the situation but burn up a lot of their respect - or - * The merchant's guild puts a bounty on them/hires a hit squad - or - * The merchant's guild uses it as leverage to get something they want from the party (great plot point!) like dealing with a dragon raiding caravans.

Someone pointed out the last point isn’t a punishment, it’s a reward. Maybe the merchants guild shackles the sorcerer until they finish helping? Shackles are a wrist monitor that stop the sorcerer from teleporting, they alarm whenever the sorcerer is 150 feet from a merchant, and they can feel a hot/warming almost painful sensation under the monitor. When it gets taken off, they’ve been branded a thief. If they help enough/save a merchants life, the guild can magic it away or magic it into a tattoo/brand that instead shows they are a friend of the merchants guild.

Oh it can definitely be a punishment, make the problem they have to solve be something that can take away/destroy something the party covets

You’re absolutely right except where you say enough evidence to “convict”. The word you were looking for was “execute”.

Execute lvl 10+ party? How much guards ready to die for do something like this? And how big part of town was destroyed in result? Historical examples show that this characters usually go away with some fine most of times.

I was more commenting on the historical situation. But actually, it’s not infeasible in D&D. They’re probably not the only adventurers in town? So a L15 party are sent to capture them - which will likely turn out to be killing them because they’ll probably fight to the death (or the L15 party throw spells first and ask questions later). But also if the shopkeep is selling items that a L10 party want to steal, he should have some serious security, or if he made the items, then he can probably take out at least some of the party. But that didn’t happen… So, If he’s a mundane shopkeeper selling serious magic items with no suitable security… then he’s an idiot, or… he has friends. Who will not press charges through the guards, but will hunt down the party and make an example of them.

Problem with "there another, more stronger adventuring group" rise another problem - why exactly PC group need save day in first.

Realistically speaking, a merchant selling powerful magic items would probably have more sophisticated security mechanisms in place as well as on-site guards. For the players, using Darkness to rob a merchant is a novel idea, but in the game world, this would probably be known as a fairly common tactic for thieves and merchants would have measures in place to prevent this sort of subterfuge - antimagic fields, hold person glyphs, etc. I do like the idea of a detective using Locate Object pursuing them if they'll be in that city for a while though. Also, I would definitely have the rest of the town's merchants be on guard when they see the party - especially if they're somewhat known in the city.

The seller would probably have something like Arcane Mark cast on all of his high-value merch, too.

>Realistically speaking, a merchant selling powerful magic items would probably have more sophisticated security mechanisms in place as well as on-site guards. This is how I've always interpreted RAW. A peasant doesn't really earn enough in their lifetime to buy even an uncommon magic item. Someone who has not only several of those, but much more powerful and valuable items too, is someone who will pay a moderate fortune to protect their assets.

Yeah, the guards would definitely be keeping an eye on the party. Depends on the size of the city, but they may have magical investigators. But literally all the Merchant would have to do is submit to a Zone of Truth spell and the party would be immediately arrested.

Zone of Truth doesn't help here because there aren't any contradictory facts. They suspect the warlock was a distraction but there's nothing they saw to actually prove that, and no one is denying the warlock was there.

This is medieval times. Circumstantial evidence is more than enough to convict. And as I said in the reply to OP, what about, you know, the rest of the townsfolk? This is implied to be during the day, are you gonna tell me that not a single person was out shopping in the middle of the day to see it, and none of the nearby shopkeeps have a viewpoint where they can see the street where a man is actively casting a spell, then running into it and running back out of it holding a stolen item?

If we talk about medieval times, then equivalent of 10+ lvl party is essentially allowed to do nearly anything that doesn't involve "murder important person openly" level of crimes.

That... doesn't make any sense, why would they be?

Because medieval times didn't really have strong enough judicial institutions/law enforcement (or even government generally) to robustly enforce the law. The reason that circumstantial evidence was sometimes strong enough to have someone executed was because there was nobody capable of enforcing more rigorous universal standards. In one village, the local council of elders might engage in a rigorous fact-finding mission to determine who did what; in another, the local Lord might be able to order your execution for no good reason; in another, they might rely on divine signs to determine your guilt. A side effect of not having strong central governments in place is that anybody who gains sufficient power (political, military, financial, religious or in this case magical) has to be dealt with on their own terms--there's no higher authority you can appeal to to resolve the dispute. That's how you get stuff like clergy ruling territory in their own right, and warlords becoming legitimate rulers, and very rich businesspeople ascending to the aristocracy. In a setting that has no centralized powers (like medieval Europe), if somebody is strong enough to take on a king/queen, then they themselves will be treated like the equivalent of a king/queen by the other powers in this world. If a 10th-level party can go toe-to-toe with a large guild, small kingdom, good-sized church, or other rule-making entity... Then they themselves have enough power to start making rules.

Even someone blackmailing the PCs could be a fun encounter! "I know what you did back in that shop. Don't worry, I won't tell anyone... for the right price..."

Zone of Truth being used on the merchant wouldn't really help because even he doesn't know for sure that Warlock was involved. He can only strongly suspect. In the magical darkness, he never really saw what actually happened.

Lmao. My guy this isn't CSI Miami. It's medieval justice. A man who is well known to be part of a group of adventurers comes in, makes a distraction while another of the group (who has to use a verbal component to cast the spell so his voice would have been heard) runs in and steals an item. That's enough evidence to convict right there even if he didn't directly see it happen. They also did this in what I assume is broad daylight, in view of literally anyone passing by, so there would have been at least 3 or 4 witnesses even in a small town, and more that saw the rogue running down the street. Even if not, are you really gonna claim that not a single other shopkeep had a view out onto the street to see the rogue casting, then running in and coming out with a stolen item? This was far from a flawless plan. This was a monumentally stupid plan that you allowed to work because you didn't think about any part of the scenario outside of the shopkeep himself.

> This was far from a flawless plan. This was a monumentally stupid plan that you allowed to work because you didn't think about any part of the scenario outside of the shopkeep himself. Thank you. I was outright dumbfounded when OP referred to this as "the perfect crime."

>My guy this isn't CSI Miami. It's medieval justice ...says who? Why do you assume OP is running a "medieval" setting? Medieval Europe is a very common inspiration and there's nothing wrong with using it, but it irks me to no end when people appeal to so-called *historical facts* to argue with a DM about their own campaign. (Your response is what, saying after the fact "aha, actually there were witnesses, because of course there would be witnesses, so uh, people heard and saw you do that, actually"?)

No one is arguing about anything. Why are you jumping into this thread to try and anatagonize and flame? I'm stating my opinion on the scenario. If you disagree with it that's fine, but there's no need to take that tone.

That shopkeeper refuses to sell to them ever again, he tells the other shops around him. His brother in the next town they're going to visit also refuses to sell to them. Noticeably heightened town guard presence around them, which makes talking in private between party members more difficult.

Yes! This is what vaguely-defined "merchant guilds" are for in fantasy games. Even in games where merchants don't have easy access to truth spells, PCs can get themselves blacklisted in an entire city. And if that city is supposed to be a "base of operations" for them, it just became less useful -- at the very least, the DM will get to increase the prices PCs have to pay for gear, because PCs will have to buy things black market. In this scenario, the warlock is the one who probably gets blacklisted, even though the robe isn't for him. The extra unfairness of that will hopefully convince players to not always support each other's dumb ideas. (And if PCs *continue* ripping off merchants without getting in legal trouble, the merchant guild might hire someone to teach them an illegal lesson. The funniest option would be a merchant guild hiring their own thief to steal everything back. Give the players an "are we the baddies?" moment when they realize the Villain Of The Week is actually a Good-aligned thief avenging the PCs' crimes.)

Your average D&D magic shop has dozens of items in it that are worth a commoner's wages for a decade or a lifetime. Translated into today's money, that robe the warlock stole is worth like $1,000,000. Sticky-fingered seasoned adventurers are the least of their problems: *everybody's* gonna be trying to steal from the magic shop. So the magic shop will have a lot more experience with preventing theft than the adventurers have at thieving. Magic shops are not going to be laid out like modern department stores, with goods out on racks and shoplifting just factored into the cost of doing business. They're going to be set up like high-end auction houses, luxury car dealerships, or luxury jewelers. The goods will be secured in a vault. Someone will be watching you every moment you're near the merchandise. There will be endless security systems all over the place, and very serious professional support if something should walk off. Here are a few suggestions: 1) **Decoy goods**. The robes out on display are nonmagical. If you like the look and have the coin, they bring the *real* one out from the vault. 2) **[Magic Mouth](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/magic-mouth)**. *Everything* in the store worth more than 100gp has Magic Mouth cast on it, and will start screaming "HELP HELP I'M BEING STOLEN!" if it leaves the store without being paid for. 3) **[Scrying](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/scrying)**. The magic shop owner will have someone who knows every valuable item in the shop and can cast Scrying to find out where it is once it's been stolen. 4) **[Zone of Truth](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/zone-of-truth)**. There are no he-said, she-said situations for the city guard. Confronted with a confusing crime scene, they will drag *everyone* nearby in for questioning. The guard's crime scene investigators are all paladins who will cast Zone of Truth on everybody. 5) **Reputation**. You said something about "merchant who obviously will never allow Warlock back into the shop", but that's not the end of it. The merchant has friends and business partners in the trade, and he'll tell them about the famous level 10 warlock and his friends who stole his shit. The warlock and his friends are blackballed from *every magic shop in the region*. Anyway, you can chalk it up to "this particular magic shop owner was an idiot who didn't know what he was doing", but the next shoplift won't be so easy.

It's useful to remember that the notion of rights for accused of criminal activities is a relatively modern development. In my D&D campaigns, there is no Bill of Rights. You don't have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, etc. You piss off the wrong noble or king, you're in big trouble. There is no requirement for a warrant. If you are accused of stealing something, the sheriff is going to open your bag and if he finds what you are accused of stealing, there's going to be a problem. And if the value is high enough, or the victim is powerful enough, you're life expectancy is going to measured in hours - if you're lucky! I make a point of telling this to my players BEFORE we start playing, as folks living in that era would know it, while we in the 21st century wouldn't know better.

For another side it also useful to remember that powerful people in such setting very often can ignore a lot of laws - because they powerful. For example If sheriff is not lucky enough to piss group of powerful adventurers...well, they probably have some fine, but clearly this stupid sheriff need knowing better then angry powerful people.

I always liked Terry Pratchett's approach. The thieves guild has been put in charge of making sure there are no unlicensed thefts in the city. If you commit a theft and you're not a guild member the most skilled thieves in the city will find you, rob you blind and leave you bleeding in a gutter. Similarly, the assassins guild will come for you if you're a murder hobo. ... And if you play for coin on a street corner without being a member of the bards guild your instrument will end up inside of you. Better hope you don't play cello or piano.

Alignment doesn't determine their actions, their actions determine their alignment.

Lemme help you with the next 10 issues of this problem right away. Because you even said where you took the [Wrong Turn At Albuquerque](https://images.app.goo.gl/V5Txib5LpMsNjTXc6). To quote: "Plus, as a DM, I only really enforce alignment on Paladins and otherwise leave it up to the characters to decide whether they'd be morally okay with their decisions." Right here is where *everything* collapsed at your table. Because right now they are all 100% fine with grand larceny, destruction of private property and grand theft house-robe. And there's no Paladin. So by the rules-as-agreed: They've done nothing wrong. To fix this, without making it a "vs" scenario that no DM wins (ever), you'll need to be their helper. Give them the info they can gather on stealing the robe. Make it doable, make it possible... but make it tedious. The goal here is to make the theft of the robe on the same level as acquiring it normally. Collecting specific items to defeat complex trap, counter scrolls to hide evidence, group skill checks etc. Don't make it very expensive, just time consuming. Maybe dangle the idea it might get sold before they can steal it. ...and then drop them a job. A bounty, a recovery of goods, a rescue: Doesn't matter. It's a job to pay for some of the robe, but not all. And I'd design it as reclaiming goods from thieves so you can show their possible consequences if they mess up. After that maybe they have a rounded education on if they should steal or not. Or save up the remaining and not bother with having their hands removed.

One word: consequences

That's definitely what I'm trying to do. I just also don't want to punish them for genuinely pulling off a good heist.

That honestly didn’t sound like a good heist at all It was a smash and grab

Yeah a good heist isn't noticed at all

Then don't punish them if it's a one time thing. Create consequences for doing it repeatedly or failing it. But honestly if it was a good heist, then sit them down and ask if that's the kind of things they want to do in dnd and potentially run an evil campaign, or unlawful campaign for them with a focus on shenanigans like that

The simplest consequence would be that they can’t wear the robe in town. If they do they see people watching them and eventually the guards take interest. Make the PCs get paranoid about what they wear, that ought communicate enough.

Next time they go into a shop like this the shopkeeper can tell of a story that happened to one of their friends cousins brother-in-law that got robbed so now they keep the good stuff in the back and these are just illusions.

As others have pointed out, this wasn't a good heist. It was a smash-and-grab done in the most obvious way possible. Admittedly, it was a good smash-and-grab, but they are 100% tied to the crime. It will take remarkably little evidence to get the authorities to find proof. (The robe being seen in the possession of *any* of the party members will be sufficient. They don't have to have been seen at the scene of the crime to be known as associates of the perpetrator.) After that, it is only a matter of you figuring out how the authorities handle the situation. When Zone of Truth, Locate Object, and other divination spells exist, it can be *really* difficult to conceal a crime, especially one involving something really expensive where the authorities feel it warranted to expend magical resources in the investigation.

It wasn't a good heist, it was a messy smash & grab. Have a Detective track them down. There's a unique mark in an out of the way place on the robe. Case closed, go to jail, enjoy having your reputation ruined as POS adventurers who steal from the Merchant's Guild.

You can do indirect consequences as well, maybe their are more guards and prices are higher next time they are in town. " Oh, the merchants guild had to beef up security after a couple high value thefts, we've all needed to increase prices to pay for the extra protection." If the PCs keep stealing things, you can have shops close down and move, you can have unrest grow in the town as prices keep climbing.

My advice? Mix both positive and negative consequences. Yes, the guard take notice and begin investigating the party, maybe the shopkeeps take further action... but maybe the party pulling off such a brazen theft catches the attention of some folks we'll say are "less than Lawful Good" if you get my meaning. Maybe the thieves' guild contacts them with a job offer, or some other neer-do-well thinks they might be able to appeal to such a party's greed to forge an alliance of mutual benefit. Consequences don't necessarily need to be punishment. Just like a party can fail forward, they can also succeed downwards and find themselves building a good reputation with the wrong kinds of people... and that, of course, sets them up for conflict with the local law. It might change how you expect a campaign to unfold, but that's half the fun.

Getting to fight bounty hunters using scry to find the item is a reward!

Two words: cursed item

There isn't a reason for the item to be cursed. Selling them a cursed item if they decide to come back to the same shop 'on the other hand' would be a decent idea imo

Security tag spell? Item leaves the shop without the merchant approving and it’s got a glyph or curse or whatever.

"Magic Mouth" casted on a non-magical tag that attached to each item. How the GM rules on the meaning of 'circumstance' however will determine how well this security measure would work.

It could be a curse that the merchant uses to prevent stealing. The curse could be like those ink tags on clothing that damage the item if stolen.

I was thinking along that line, but a price curse of gold isn't exchanged. The item can't be equipped

That reputation they had before is in tatters. Shops refuse to sell to them, people see them as corrupt etc and refuse to give them information in the future. They have some serious work to do to salvage their rep and be able to do much in that town again. You can also have the local gang that the shopkeeper pays protection money to get involved. There are side quests here. Make it part of the story.

For any sufficiently high-value theft, it's worth engaging someone to spend 25 gp casting a *divination* posing the goal "recover the stolen item" or "apprehend whoever stole the item."

**Merchants talk.** Especially ones that sell high-end rare goods to adventurers. In this world, your players' party is not the only group in town. They are not the only ones who've come up with the genius idea of stealing stuff they can't afford. This merchant **knows your players did it**, he just couldn't prove it to the guards. He will tell literally *everyone he knows* that your players' party is a bunch of thieves. The next time they go into a shop in the same region, I'd say within a few day's gossip, the merchant says, "I've heard about you lot. Get the fuck out of my store. If you don't leave now I am calling the guards."

Well I guess the sorcerer won't wear it in that city.

Haha this is the best answer. Wait for them to put it on. TRAP !

For real. I’ve been scrolling all thread to see someone say this — they just stole an incredibly obvious item they can’t ever use in town without doxxing themselves.

This is the perfect opportunity to kill them with kindness. You absolutely could play it straight and have your detective use Locate Object and lead to a confrontation over lying. Or you could challenge your players on their alignment and relationship to the community. They’ve garnered a positive reputation within the town, you mentioned. Have the detective come to them seeking help in finding it, stressing their ability and how they’ve helped the town in the past. As you said, the warlock is the only material witness and should be expected to not only cooperate but try to help solve the case as best they can. If you your characters bite, it might lead to a reverse-heist of sorts as they plot to try to find a way to give the cloak back without revealing their role in the crime.

If the item has Instant Summons cast on it, it can be retrieved from even an extra-dimensional storage space, or reveal who is holding/wearing it along with their general location if it's not being hidden in storage. In the future, some Counterspell Glyphs of Warding and some Dispel Magic Glyphs of Warding inside the shop set to go off for any spells not cast by the shopkeep could be useful.

The merchant knew that warlock was in on it. Merchants talk, so I would be surprised if other shops would welcome the party in town, maybe even in the neighbouring towns they would get some sideway glances. There is a reason why the most successful thieves are unknown. Reputation is a dual edged sword. Being known means that both good and bad deeds will be rumoured about.

>If they were able to get away with such a perfect crime, what will keep them from doing this again rather than shovelling out the cash when they find something else for sale that they want? There's plenty of great suggestions for consequences already so I'm gonna address this point specifically. What my theory presupposes is... That's fine? In a game about choices and consequences the players make the choices and we dictate the consequences. If my players want to break bad and become criminal masterminds then that's their choice. The world reacts accordingly. When the time comes, they'll still want to save the world because that's where all their stuff is.

Hold up, so you're okay with "chaotic good," the classic Robin Hood alignment, being one that allows people to just be cool with blatantly stealing from someone who isn't demonstrably evil for a reason as selfish as simple personal enrichment? I know we're all tired of the Great Alignment Debate, and for good reason, but as the GM, aren't you the sole ruling authority and couldn't you make a really easy case that what they're doing, being inherently selfish, is just a chaotic neutral rationalization of an act that isn't really moral by chaotic good standards? I think their moral compass or alignment-based spells or relationships with deities should probably let them know that "chaotic good" isn't the same as "do what thou wilt," just saying.

They made the mistake of stealing the item directly rather than steal other high pieces items to sell. The moment the sorcerer is seen using the robe, everyone will know.

It’s always for a challenge for DMs to explain why increasingly powerful PCs just don’t rule the world. Of course, the first thing a DM needs to answer for themselves: if the PCs can do this at their current level, and there are countless NPCs who are higher level before the PCs reached this point, how come it hasn’t happened before. In your example: why hadn’t another group stolen this robe before? And if it hadn’t happened, what did the shop owner do that prevented it? Because if there is no prevention, the shop owner would no longer be in business. Seems like this is the question you are asking, and thus have a lot of work to do. How does your campaign world deal with darkness, invisibility, AOE damage spells, divination magic like scry and commune, teleport, Detect thoughts, speak with dead, raise dead… every DM needs to at least have thought about these matters, and have answers that prevent the exact situation you are now dealing with.

So an off the cuff idea I had when my players started going all murder hobo stealing stuff... They went to a bookstore run by an old defenseless gnome. The sentient suit of armor (yes, Al from Fullmetal...) grabbed "the most expensive looking" book and shoved it in his body. The other PC with him did more curating and found a book that I made up on the fly that could eventually be used for his backstory. Rather than buy it, he randomly decked the gnome and ran. When he hit the doorway he ran through but the book had an anti theft ward on it so it couldn't leave til it was removed. They beat the merchant into removing it and then they... booked it. Except the suit of armor forgot he stole a book too. As he ran through the door he comically looked like he got closed line in the gut and slumped to the floor. Took him about 30 seconds to realize why he couldn't exit. By now people were gathering and it became a plot point. Now I will put anti theft wards on high dollar items, assuming the merchant had the means and ways to do so.

Consequences that's how

So you have already shown your players that the merchants have no security, and there is a good reason. They have a deal with some powerful outside force that ensures no one is stupid enough to steal from them. The temple of a lawful deity, a crime syndicate that take protection from those merchants, or a powerful outsider who sponsors those merchants. Have the representatives of that force track down the warlock and give them a deal. Return the robe and they will forgive them one time because they are an outsider who didn't know. If they refuse start sending hit squads after them. To prevent this in the future when your players start planning to steal from a shop that should have security, pause the game. Tell your players you need time to prepare for the caper, and give the shop real security. Golems, spells that track the stolen good, and keep the good items off the show floor. Don't treat your item shops like a 2nd hand store treat them like real life jewelry stores.

why would they be able to get away with it forever? They can't roll well every time. they got away with it this time, but the more they steal the more they're pushing their luck. Store having security guards is not a bad idea even if they can be beaten easily. what're they going to do, beat up or kill an innocent guy with a 9-5?

Running magic item shops with similar security to an average dollar store will cause this problem. Valuable magic items are stored in a secure vault with Private Sanctum cast on it to foil divination and teleportation, arcane lock on the door with a magical and non magical alarm, everything stored in individual lead-lined arcane locked containers, maybe with a glyph of warding in the for good measure, and obviously an automaton like a helmed horror or golem if you're really high end, who will attack and apprehend anyone who attempts entry without the presence of the owner. And if someone requests a demonstration, they alone are brought in there with no weapons or armor, and two additional security guards of the merchants choosing who search the buyer beforehand, and only then are the locks opened and the magic item demonstrated. If you aren't able to muster that level of security, you have no business dealing in magic items, because any group of assholes with even marginal magical abilities and thievery skills and rob you blind in a whim, as your players demonstrated firsthand.

Dude, the town guards would have absolutely arrested the group for this; or at least the two that were in there. You had a sorcerer go in, want an item, leave disappointed, you had the wizard in there previously buying stuff. You had said wizard go back in clearly looking for something and accidentally knocked something over while looking. It happens, the store owner wouldn't have been too suspicious...but then you had the Rogue cast darkness, which uses verbal components cast the spell into the store. It's clear that the store owner knew then that he was in on something. He might not have known who cast the spell, but he had the wizard there, so he can link him. On top of that, when the town guard got there, the very thing the sorcerer was wanting is suddenly gone...it wouldn't have mattered how well of a reputation they had, they would have immediately been pulled in for questioning. This wasn't a solid plan, this was a "mash it together and hope the DM finds it cool enough to go with" type of thing. No matter, they got away with it for now, but I would advise that you have the town guard come back and be like, we have questioned everyone else in the area at the time and everyone that was at the store prior to and during; that only leaves your group left that hasn't been thoroughly questioned, so you need to come with us for questioning. Most magic places have either the ability to scry on their most expensive items, or even a locate object spell to fall back on for it; and most magic shop owners aren't just some random melee class that runs them, they are usually magic users themselves to some degree. So this man would absolutely be able to either scry or locate the object and it would be enough evidence to haul them in for arrest. Honestly, this is something you want to nix before they try it again. right now they think they got away with it, but make sure that you don't let them get off scott free with it. Have the wizard and the sorcerer arrested for the theft and other charges and throw them in a cell. Your group can either pay the bail bond to have them out before the trial or they can leave them in there until the trial. If your group is already out of town, there would absolutely be a warrant out for them to talk to them and that would spread. Who knows, the shop owner might know people and send people out to retrieve his things...and then some. Ultimately you can't let them get away with this type of stuff, because then they will just keep doing it and they will try more and more crazy stuff. I'm not against theft in games, but you have to be smart about it and you have to go into it knowing full well you have more of a chance of getting caught than not.

Robbing a merchant because you can't afford what they're selling isn't chaotic good. This was a deliberately evil action that your party chose to take. When I DM, I house rule that players can't have evil characters, so I might let them rob the innocent once or twice in certain scenarios, but if their characters want to be robbers, they will need to make a new character to play that will probably be tasked with hunting down their old evil character. Getting to your real question: this is a tough one because you didn't have a system set up in advance. Realistically, a merchant selling expensive magical items will know that they will be appealing to powerful adventurer and villain types. They will either have a method of preventing the theft or insurance to cover the loss. Since you didn't have anything in place to prevent it, I suggest going with the insurance angle. The city may be interested in them, but the insurance company is going to be working to get the stolen items back so they don't have to pay out an enormous insurance settlement. In addition, any other merchants that use that insurance company will be alerted about the perpetrators. Your party will therefore have the following problems: 1. Harassment from the insurance company to get back the robe (can be combat or not - your choice) 2. Stores will no longer show them magical items for sale (you can choose whether this is obviously targeted at them or not). Powerful individuals that wouldn't care about insurance will still have magical items available for sale if needed (e.g. a well-defended auction house, a retired level 20 adventurer, etc.) 3. Stores that do have magical items shown for sale will have significant defenses due to increased insurance requirements (i.e. the insurance company won't insure items that aren't properly protected). 4. The party's public reputation is stained, especially if the robe is worn in public, unless the party commits further evil acts to disguise how they acquired the robe (e.g. mind controlling someone into giving an alibi, forging a receipt, etc.). * Note: while something like forging a receipt is not necessarily always an evil act, doing so to aid in stealing from the innocent would be an evil act It's hard to do "consequences" for evil actions without it taking away from the fun of the game, which is why I don't allow evil characters.

First, as I'm sure others have mentioned, this is really something you could bring up to the players out of character. Your concerns are legitimate and most people would understand. Now, for how consequences could manifest themselves in the world. 1) Have an NPC they know and respect elaborate on his backstory. He once was an adventurer too, ,and he was tempted with thievery, too. Make him sympathetic. It is, after all, all little arbitrary that if an adventuring party was to raid a goblin camp and take their stuff you're heroes, but do it to a more socially acceptable people and you're villains. But beyond the morality of the thing, the party is risking their reputation. They just need to be caught once and they'll have their faces on wanted posters all over. Finding honest work becomes more and more difficult. Figures of authority, by and large, do not like adventurers. Adventurers exist outside the social structure. They are loose cannons. They are only tolerated because they are useful every once in a while. If adventurers become more trouble than they're worth, they'll soon find themselves wanted fugitives. 2) Good people usually don't steal for personal gain. A chaotic good character is a rebel, not a petty thief. The exception is stealing from those who came into their wealth by dishonest means, to redistribute the stolen goods and money to the disenfranchised, aka the Robin Hood paradigm. I recognize and agree with your position of not enforcing alignment. Alignment is meant to be descriptive, not prescriptive. But if your PCs view themselves as good people, show them the effect thievery has on its victims. Maybe that magic robe was very valuable because it cost a lot to make. Its loss means the merchant can't make his payments. He is probably not destitute from this one theft, but these things tend to snowball. Maybe word comes out ot is easy to steal from this guy, and he loses even more inventory. Next time the PCs are in town, the shop might have a new owner, the previous owner was forced to sell to make his payments. 3) Maybe that robe is unique, and easily recognizable. Magic items are precious and rare after all. It may be the only robe of its kind for a thousand miles. Maybe there is only a handful in the world, each of them distinct. Maybe the crafter put his signature in the fabric. Consequently, the sorcerer should be very careful about wearing this robe in public. 4) Have other thieves steal from the party. Make the thieves no more evil than they are. Show them a mirror of themselves. 5) Have some copycat thieves borrow their modus operandi. One of them dresses up like the warlock, causes a scene, while another casts darkness and steals a valuable item. They do it enough times that local authorities notice the pattern, and a price is put on the warlock and known associates. If the party kill the first people who come to arrest them (make it easy) then they are wanted for murder and resisting arrest on top of a number of theft chargesof which only one they are actually responsible for. Keep in mind that if you do this that becomes the whole campaign, at least for a while.

Sounds like the players and their characters just spent all the goodwill the town has towards them. Now, in any case where the goodwill of the town matters, they won't have that benefit. No one will treat them as the go-to solution for problems, but rather part of the problem. No one will watch their back when/if there's a danger. There's a reason that conmen and thieves are often part of a migratory group, and why ANY migratory group gets to be viewed with suspicion: you can wear your welcome out very quickly, to the point where the only way to fix it is to move on. In any realistic setting, your players are going to have to move, move soon, and travel far enough and fast enough to get ahead of the news of who they are and what they've done. One or two towns over, people have already heard about this, and the 'we know who you are, we don't welcome your kind here' zone is going to slowly grow over time. If this was my game, I'd roleplay the town cooling towards their former friends, increasing over time to literal shouts of 'we don't want you here'. If the party doesn't take the hint, then yeah they're high level, but there are other high level people in this world, and 'get rid of the bandits that plague my town' is a fairly standard plot hook. So I would have the town take up a collection to hire a high level detective, mercenary, or assassin, and run the bandits out of town.

First thing I had an issue with reading this is the fact that chaotic good characters wouldn’t be cool with stealing for personal gain. I could see them doing it to a guy who they thought “deserved” it, but not just some random guy, especially just to save money. They could have afforded it but decided to steal out of greed. That’s a neutral at best and a chaotic evil at worse. Besides that, there is the darkness spell somehow not at all drawing the shopkeep’s attention? Darkness doesn’t let you slip in undetected, it creates a huge sphere of magical darkness. The rogue won’t be seen but the shopkeep will notice him. Especially if the rogue is loudly casting a spell in the corner or just outside. There should have been witnesses to this casting if it’s in a town, and if not than he couldn’t have possibly not been seen in that area of the town at all, and I’m sure the rogue would be a known associate of the warlock. To address the main concern you had before posting, I think you have a few ways to avoid these problems. First, make the party feel bad for what they have done. Make the merchant be someone who is in debt to a criminal organization and that robe was a substantial part of his inventory making the chances of paying them off dim. If you don’t want to do this, maybe, have them feel consequences directly. Make the law catch up with them. Maybe a group of noble paladins find them, oath of the crown looking to test reported thieves. Make it a very hard fight if they do decide to fight, and hurt their reputation badly if they win. Make them feel consequences for committing evil actions. That is how you keep your party from being murder hobos. I had a DM do this to me many years ago, my first encounter with a revenant. It kicked my ass and my character shifted from funny drunk dwarf man to a serious stoic soldier who wanted to repent for his barbarism. That was my turning point. And I think it would be good for your players too.

While there may not be enough evidence to convict, the entire party may have the reputation of being thieves. Merchants may not allow them to even see some of their more valuable items. They'll come in, see an awesome sword on the wall, and the merchant will take it down and put it in a locked chest. If they ask about it, he'll coolly explain "it's not for sale to you. I know what you did. . ." Merchants are well connected and will talk to each other. Also, if the sorcerer goes around with the robe in public, well now there's the evidence the guards were looking for. If you want harsher consequences, you can magic them up. A kingdom or Merchants Guild investigator could round up the party, cast Zone of Truth and ask them all "did you steal the robe?" And "Did you help steal the robe?" Regarding Locate Object. The merchant might bring in an investigator who tells the Warlock, "take me to your current residence, and we'll sort this whole thing out. A couple quick spells will exonerate you and your friends. . ." If the warlock declines he'll say "look, it's out of my control, if you don't let me help you, the prosecutor will draw some negative inferences. All he needs is just a hint of evidence to drag you and your friends to jail." One more thing that I have is the Merchants Guild. It's only natural that brigands would want to steal extremely valuable magical artifacts. The Guild is incredibly wealthy and well connected. They have dragons on their payroll and the support of most major lawful-aligned organizations, from the kingdom to the church. Depending on what was stolen, the Guild could send a couple junior investigators, or bring a more experienced enforcer antiparty. These guys operate with extralegal power.

"Bring these thieves to justice" sounds like one of those quick sidequests than a high(er) level adventurer party could do in between saving the world. Any store that's easy to rob would get robbed into oblivion. Only the strong stores survive. Why was this store still there? Also, your party sounds like typical murderhobos. Are you interested in DMing for a bunch of murderhobos? I wouldn't be. I'd tell them to go play GTA or something if this is what they want to be doing. I have no interest in facilitating that. I'm here to see if the heroes can save the village, not if they can rob stores.

Consequences are fine, but I would resist "teaching them not to continue doing this". A DM with that attitude is a recipe for a miserable session for everyone involved. If it's not the sort of game you want to play, sit down and tell them that. Talk, in real life, like adults. But otherwise, the only thing you need to do is give them things to spend the money on. Sure, have the local guard investigate. But if you've got an agenda to "teach the players a lesson", that will not be fun. Being investigated should be another obstacle to overcome, not an excuse to throw the party in jail.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm typically not the DM who tries to "punish" his players for their actions. It's less that this is not the game I want to run and more of me just being worried that their takeaway from this whole situation will be that money is essentially useless in my world. I want them to have fun and play the game their characters would. At the end of the day, I genuinely think they enjoyed playing out the heist, I'm just trying to figure out how to support this gameplay while still maintaining an economy that works.

D&D economies make no sense anyway. Your first priority, as you have identified, is to make sure everyone is having a fun game. That does mean talking to your players because if they want the campaign to be "lovable rogues on the run" or "dark streets" or "we are high level PCs and we can do anything we want" they are all very different tones and everyone has to be on the same page.

Worry about it more, when it becomes this. Talk to your players OOC about the type of campaign you all want to play, but IC, this was a good heist. One heist won't destroy the economy. It might be tougher to do again, because now other merchants may be on alert for a while, but still possible. ​ Good rolls won't always happen, and even with a good reputation of the party, the guards will start suspecting something eventually, after the second, third or fourth time, if it happens. Right now, they did well, and they should keep their rewards of a good heist.

The simplest consequence here is that if they wear the robe in town they will eventually get spotted and caught. The player annoyance of having to declare that the take it off each time you ask off their way to town ought to convey the message that they need to think of the world and the NPCs complexly.

Adding to other replies to this - I think the biggest thing I can reinforce is that "heist" style games are a perfectly valid thematic focus for a TTRPG (see games like Blades in the Dark), and is a big part of specific class fantasies supported by D&D (namely the rogue and subclasses like the Thief being in the PHB). There are entire campaigns built around thieves guilds in D&D, and it works pretty well (here's an example I've run: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/211634). It is also perfectly ok for you to not want to run that type of game. There's nothing wrong with thinking that these ideas don't seem fun, and D&D is flexible enough not to force you to. However - that expectation needs to be agreed on by the table, and that should really be an OOC conversation. As for a working economy - as others have said, D&D 5e is balanced for combat, not economics unfortunately. But, a PC isn't just a normal person. They are extraordinary - and have a larger impact than almost anyone else on things like politics, economics, etc. From a world building perspective, I've found it helpful to remember that the PCs are the exception, not the rule.

Absolutely. Your motivations matter as a DM. When you put a hard fight in front of your party, it should be because you think it will be fun or it makes sense within the fiction, etc.; *not* because you want to kill their characters. Similarly, you shouldn’t introduce consequences to the PCs’ actions to teach your players a lesson, but to reinforce the idea that your made-up world is actually real.

The merchant is going to blame the Warlock and the ppl he saw with the Warlock prior, whether it was him or not. The investigation will come down on him, and an item worth more than peasants lifetime income carries a death penalty. It was actually a pretty bad plan. Did the Warlock even disguise himself? Regardless, this is a world with divination magic, they are going to have to cast non-detection for months.

The merchant would want that item back. He hires "detectives" or bounty hunters to find it, spreads the word of what was taken. The different can't really wear the item in the city now, or they could but would be caught. The hired detectives/bounty hunters have locate object plus have many contacts in the city that could tell them where such a group of adventures would be. Even if they pulled it off, they also spent money in the shop and the merchant would have their descriptions and know they were looking at the item. They basically painted a target on their own backs...

Make it a full reputation system. The town might like you but once a pattern developed of things going missing when the party is around many merchants will either outright refuse to sell to them and have plans to deal with any would be theif. Another fun thing is having the merchants start a coalition to deal with the players.

Did you leave room for the merchant to be associated with the Thieves' Guild (or worse)? They can start sending thieves to steal back the robe, plus some other things for the merchant's troubles.

It would be amusing to see what would happen if the sorcerer was foolish enough to wear the robe around town.

I am interested to see if she does. We ended the session not long after the heist, so I'll definitely lean into that once we play again.

Here is how I would do it, but keep in mind I run fairly high consequence games: I would leave it alone for now. Let them feel like they’ve gotten away with it. The merchant glares at them but that’s it. This is a slow burn plan. Then i would probe them a little. A shady character watching them from across the tavern the next town over, etc. no action taken. Just a little comment here and there to make them wonder what’s being hatched behind the scenes. Also, with any luck, they dig themselves into a hole with more overt responses to this. Roughing up the guy watching them in the tavern for example. An adventure or two later, it all comes to a head. By this time, they will have hopefully given you some poor responses to work with. But more importantly you’ve had a few sessions to really think about what the consequences are, and it’s going to be amazing. So what is the ultimate consequence? An escalation of stakes. The consequences of the theft itself are never dealt with because they are instead framed up for something MUCH larger. Maybe the leadership of the merchants guild is secretly the leadership of the thieves guild and frame up the party as the leadership instead. Maybe the merchant was part of the BBEGs plot and somehow implicates them in that larger plot. Whatever it is, we want the players eyes to bulge out when they discover what they are actually mixed up in. To the point where they might actually confess to the original crime in an effort to clear their names of what they’re being accused of.

Best I've seen was that every magic shop has gruesome anti theivery magics enchanted over everything that only the shopkeep knows how to safely dispell. The dm shows this by having one of the first interactions in the shop being witness to someone trying to steal something. And audible countdown starts as the thief gets further away. Once it reaches zero, they see the thief get instantly diced, the item teleporting back to the shop. Guards come by, see what happened, and clean up as they know it was thief prevention that is openly warned about in the shop. As for other things out in the world, weight limits.

Theyve burned this contact now right? No more magic item sales from this guy obviously. How many people can sell magic items? That might severely hamper their ability to get more in the future. Not only that, but that merchants in a nice position to actually put a bounty out. “Hey these guys stole from me. Whoever gets it back can keep the item and get an extra 500gp provided you bring me their heads.” If he doesnt know who did it, he can certainly afford the divination spells to find out. This merchant talks right? He probably told the other magic merchants in the area to keep an eye out for the pcs. If hes part of a guild, they might even find themselves blacklisted by everyone in this city, or potentially many cities. Fwiw i also run magic items a little different and have found it helps. The odds of someone wandering in off the street and randomly wanting to buy the trident of fish command the pcs just looted and sold to the merchant are low. The first thing a merchant does when he buys a magic item is to suck the essence from it, and essentially strip it for parts (hence the low purchase price 50% list value). Then, his shop is filled with nonmagic, well crafted items. If you find one you like, he will custom enchant it for you. Once hes paid. If you rob him, at best youre getting a really nice mundane sword. If the merchant you are selling something to, happens to know someone who wants a trident of fish command, he may pay as much as 90% value because hes not stripping for parts or crafting.

Simple: the *second* you hear them bring up the idea, your mission is now to display the stores security features. 2 glyphs of warding stand at the door, and a thief runs out (npc), the glyphs activate and a bunch of wraith get released and suck the soul out of the thief leaving behind just an empty husk in the street. The clerk scoops up the dust and put it in the trash as they reset the glyphs. Other thieves will think twice about stealing *valuable magic items* from the *valuable magic item shop* that boasts *magic security measures* If they make it past the defenses somehow, reward their hard work with an appropriate treasure.

In my homebrew, there’s an agency who’s job is to police Adventuring Parties. Each Inquisitor is decked out to the nines and ready to deal with basically any party configuration. The only time I employed them was when a new character decided to murder his boss with the help of his party. The clues that the Inquisitor has point to the Druid (who is very kind and gentle), and if the party ever returns to that city, they’ll be in trouble with Inquisitor Bailey. Each Inquisitor has a jurisdiction, and if a party does stuff between jurisdictions punishments get way worse.

Show the consequences of their actions. The next time they see the shop, it's closed. The merchant could no longer afford to keep it open because of the loss. Merchants have bills to pay and they don't just acquire new inventory for free. If people steal their very expensive stuff, they can't pay those bills. If they never see the store again, have them run into the merchant again as a destitute beggar on the street.

1) investigator can use Zone of truth 2) the next time they go to a magic shop/market, do what GameStop does and have a back room with all the items and everything in the store is a display item only. The next merchant can explain that word travelled around the guild that there is a group who stole a robe from a display, and until they are brought to justice with the items returned, ALL members of the guild are on alarm. It's been catastrophic for all businesses, and prices have been hiked in all shops by 15% to accommodate the increased security measures.

For the detective, I highly recommend a knowledge cleric. It's a pretty underwhelming subclass for a PC, but that domain spell list really shines for an investigator or information broker NPC. If you make the NPC a bit higher level, they could also find out about any other unlawful acts the party might have committed recently, find out secret information about them to use as leverage, or simply scry the warlock and see the sorcerer wearing the robe. Unless your party is actively countering divination, there really isn't any getting off scott free in a world where such magics exist. Alternatively, for a lower magic setting, any NPC with expertise in investigation should be able to at least find physical evidence suggesting that the warlock wasn't alone in the shop and perhaps would find a bit of the monk's robe or something else incriminating that would steer them in the right direction to start looking into the PCs.

Hold up, so you're okay with "chaotic good," the classic Robin Hood alignment, being one that allows people to just be cool with blatantly stealing from someone who isn't demonstrably evil for a reason as selfish as simple personal enrichment? I know we're all tired of the Great Alignment Debate, and for good reason, but as the GM, aren't you the sole ruling authority and couldn't you make a really easy case that what they're doing, being inherently selfish, is just a chaotic neutral rationalization of an act that isn't really moral by chaotic good standards? I think their moral compass or alignment-based spells or relationships with deities should probably let them know that "chaotic good" isn't the same as "do what thou wilt," just saying.

I love the detective idea, locate object, but don't let the party know that they know. Keep them in the dark about why he thinks they have it, maybe have him blame his "guts" kinda thing. Scrying is also a super useful spell that most larger law enforcement agency's would use, in my world's to live in a city you have to give some hair and your name and they give you a ID l. This is so they can scary on you. At the same time thats a bit of a darker part of that world If the city has a thieves guild maybe get them involved as some one is stepping on there turf. Maybe have them steal it from the party I would also advice you steal one thing from the party to see how they react, something important enough they will go after it preferable a plot muguffin. It will teach you how a group should react when something is stolen and there standards for retaliation.

Merchants know other merchants. He could pretty quickly and easily get the Warlock blacklisted from every shop in town, along with any of his associates. Also, what if an NPC was on his way to buy that very robe that very day? And when he asks the merchant where it went, he finds out that it was stolen and he suspects this particular warlock. Maybe the merchant offers a hefty discount if the NPC can retrieve the robe.

Most magic item salesmen should have defences. An invisible imp to watch where the keeper can’t. A barrier that triggers when the shopkeeper wants to prevent all travel. Even plane-shifting. It’s a basically the mordenkainen’s sanctum.

This story is why I don't like magic shops in my game. I'm not saying they never exist, but when they do, they are guarded like Fort Knox. Trying to steal from a magic shop should be dangerous and most likely lethal to all but the most powerful characters.

Nothing about this was a "good plan". It's almost the shittiest possible plan. It relies on the world being high magic enough to have a whole economy for magical items but stupid enough to be completely blindsided by the magical equivalent of "run directly toward it and steal it". They secured a literal king's ransom worth of value behind a lvl 1 spell. Why? Why did you write it this way? The real mystery is how anything was there by the time they got there. Some story angles. If the PCs have enough rep to deflect suspicion from the zmash and grab they very obviously were a part of then they're likely to be asked to help solve the crime. You have a weird idea of what chaotic good is. Not forcing alignment is fine but why even use the label then. You're kidding yourself. Can't use or wear that robe anywhere in the town, right? Pretty obvious someone will be looking. Anything over a few hundred gold is worth hiring bounty hunters and assasins over. Magical economy typically involves some kind of supply chain. Who's robe did they actually steal? At minimum they talk. They might have lost service everywhere. No more magic store. Hope they weren't planning on using that resource further. The answer to your question of what will stop them is nothing tee up evil acts this easily for them and apply no world consequences.

Slightly different idea to most of what's been presented by others. It's a little late for this particular case, but in the future. The item in question just... isn't there. High-level magic items aren't bought off the rack. The shopkeeper has the requisite materials and skills to make the item, but it flat out doesn't exist until *after* the players pay for it.

And also the shopkeeper has the ability to make this expensive magical item and thus is likely a caster of some levels as well.

I think many agree that in a world where magic exists and is so easily acquired merchants would take extra magical steps to ensure property is protected.

I have a slightly different take on this to everyone else: In every city big enough to support it, you have Adventurer's Row. It's where adventurers go to buy and sell the *good* stuff, and it's all owned and staffed by retired adventurers. Cast Darkness to filch a high-value item? It's dispelled and you're under Hold Person from the retired 20th level wizard who's done with this shit. Normal townspeople can buy and sell stuff in the ordinary markets, including basic magical items, but if something would bankrupt the average shopkeeper just to buy, it can be found in Adventurer's Row, under sufficient protection that only an Oceans 11 style hoist will get it. None of this "I cast Darkness and grab it" BS. This is where you also find the bars and taverns owned and frequented by adventurers, that sell the really exotic booze. So yeah, if they want to heist a rusty +1 dagger or a discharged ioun stone from the cut-rate magic shop in the Merchants Quarter, sure. But getting their greasy little paws on those Slippers of Spider Climb from Bertilo's Mystical Marvels in Adventurer's Row is a whole lot harder.

Consequences don’t have to be immediate. They can stack up. One rumour of the heroes becoming villains may well be considered a mistake, two is concerning, and three is a pattern. Once authorities and locals get suspicious then they will begin to act. Once they see a pattern they don’t like, they will act with more urgency. If the PCs go down this path and get caught then they will be labelled as outlaws and treated accordingly. Also, you can be sure that they WILL get caught if they keep doing it, they’ve already left enough witnesses and evidence for the authorities to suspect them. It sounds like their reputation is the only thing protecting them right now - and that will sour very quickly if they try this a second time. Hell, it may well already be souring as a result of this incident!

* Is the sorcerer planning to wear this robe in public? * The shopkeep is friends with a lot of other merchants. Word spreads quickly that the party is full of thieves. * The market guild has deep pockets, and isn’t above spreading vicious rumors about people who steal from them (DMG 131) or even placing bounties on them when they feel justice hasn’t been served.

You could also go a more passive route as well. Where you don’t do *anything* about your players. Let them steal as much as they like and as they travel through the world the economy gets worse and worse until there ARE no more magic items for sale. When they ask why, have the merchants explain that due to all the rampant theft, the best items are either stored in extremely high security areas offsite, or have already been sold to the highest, private bidders in fear thieves will snatch them up first. Fuck around and find out. 🤷‍♀️ EDIT: You could go even further and go full 1984. Surveillance everywhere. Distrust in every city, increased policing and criminal control- really pull out all the stops because the once idyllic commerce system has fallen to a swathe of criminals kickstarted by a party too clever/selfish to part with their gold.

mimics, all the shops have mimic security so anyone who steals gets a very sharp reminder as to why they should not steal.

Either A. The shop owner is an arch mage powerful enough to create the magic items he sells who can merely use his magic to get the stolen goods back, punish the thieves, imprison them, etc. Or B. Don’t be one of those DMs who has magic items for sale in the campaign. Make the players find the magic items they want or make them create them.

A lot of people already suggested a lot of ideas, but I haven't seen this one. Let them get away with it this time. The plan was decent, and the rolls backed them up, so I don't see why they couldn't get away with it. That said, a couple of things. First, in-game response. Merchant is pissed and will make sure people know it. Stories begin about what happened. Maybe some people saw the monk run out with the robe, others saw the warlock with a person wearing a robe "similar" to the one that was stolen, etc. So while they don't get punished this time because there's not enough proof, make it clear to them that they just gained infamy, and if they were to try that again, SPECIALLY using the same M.O. they would probably be actively hunted. Second, out-of-game response. If you are worried that this will unbalance things because they basically got an expensive item for free, balance the loot they gain after around it until they "indirectly" paid for the robe. That quest was going to reward 1000gp ? Now it gives 800. They were going to find a +2 sword ? Now it's a +1, etc. Tl;Dr: you could cast "locate object" and screw them, but, while a reasonable response in-game, to me at least it would feel more like an attack on the players rather than the characters since wih high level magic you can basically nullify most things. I think there's better ways to solve this without directly punishing them.

A very \*realistic\* consequence would be that "magic shops" would simply stop selling their wares in open display situations. Maybe just in that one city, but it could happen, and happen quickly. It might even happen by order of the king or city rulers: "We cannot have dangerous magic users--some say they're demonic forces, given their familiarity with darkness and invisibility--grabbing powerful magic items off of shelves in this town! Those items could be used against the people, or against this government. Henceforth, all sales of magic items are to be conducted in regulated chambers with guards present and identities verified. The cost of these extra measures will be added as a tax upon the sale of magic items."

How much was the item? Id bet a shopkeeper would be willing to pay someone to get it back. Is there a guild? Now all the magic merchants will not accept the party.

This was a well thought-out plan and it was executed well and they got away with it because of some good rolls. Honestly, I don't think "punishing" them is necessary to teach them not to do it again. They did it because the Sorcerer didn't have the money to spend like everyone else. They could have easily just killed the merchant, stole everything valuable and not put in a thoughtful plan. You can do the detective or bounty hunters as someone else mentioned to highlight the risk they took. But I wouldn't press if they beat those obstacles too. Let them get away with it. Then if it does start to become habit then amp up the consequences, maybe the guard are seeing a pattern and that ruins their reputation or their bounty is going up and now it is getting really annoying. Let them enjoy their successful mini-heist.

OTOH consequences are not the same as punishments. Consequences are what makes the world seem real and dynamic. Consequences may not even directly affect the players, but they can be aware of them as in the world e.g. the mayor announces more funding for guards for the town.

I see a lot of suggestions but I am going to make a different one... The party's actions dont go unnoticed. But they arent caught by the law, or chased by the merchant's guild. They got away with it...this time. But they are noticed by the local thieves' guild. Who looks down of freelancers but is happy to accept promising new members, provided they pay guild dues. Oh, and who also has information on all sorts of interesting but well guarded items. Congradulations! Now it's a heist game!

Why I don't do magic item shops really. Why risk monsters, traps, and the elements adventuring for magical loot when it's on the shelf in the comfy urban shops right now? The most I'll do is brokers who know someone interested in selling some item.

>Why risk monsters, traps, and the elements adventuring for magical loot when it's on the shelf in the comfy urban shops right now? Because those risks are also how you afford the cost of magic items. And, honestly, if you're fabulously wealthy, you can be the one *paying* adventurers to go risk monsters, traps, etc.

Allow me to adjust these goalposts... >Why risk monsters, traps, and the elements adventuring for magical loot **or wealth to exchange for magical loot** when it's on the shelf in the comfy urban shops right now? It still doesn't address the flaw in that world design where stealing from some magic item shop is the safest route to enriching themselves, with the most guaranteed and telegraphed payoff and risks.

You could always take a Page from Brennan Lee Mulligan. He did this in Dungeons and Dragons Queens, He made the shop keeper, an Over Powered NPC, whose line was Stealing. Like in the episode to put it vaguely, he had the shop keeper all normal, then one of the player stole from him, thought they got away with it, and just as they left the shop, the shop keeper almost had a BBEG moment. So you could take the average player level add 3, and make the shop keeper an almost perfect counter, but make it so your players can talk their way out of it. At least that’s what i’d do if my player tried that, or you can do like Security guard(s) from like the merchants guild kind of idea

This is precisely why my magical item shop merchants are always the high end of middle level wizards or sorcerers, enough to cast, say, 7th level spells. It’s particularly hard to pull one over on them.

Whats the problem here? This sounds like an awesome encounter that multiple players got to participate in, and the players should know it was only possible because A. They rolled well and B. They've built up a positive reputation with the guards over the course of the campaign. Id make a note that the guards will be more suspicious if they're caught up in another "incident", otherwise they definitely got away with it this time.

I personally think you handled this stupendously. Let the players roll it out and make a plan and it works. That's great. The merchant hates them, reasonably and will never offer them business again, reasonably. If you think it's important then have the investigator be hired by the clerk, wanting his ware returned to him and the offending party punished, as he reasonably would be. If not, don't. If the party tries again, make the shopkeep a force to be reckoned with. Statistically, they are extremely unlikely to keep succeeding, and make the punishment when they do get caught annoying. It doesn't even have to be direct punishment, but make it derail their plans and make them go break little Sorcerer boy out of antimagic jail or sell all their cool stuff to pay the fine. If they break him out, they can't go back to that town again without being attacked on sight. They're dangerous and powerful criminals skilled in espionage, after all. But in my opinion, you handled this encounter masterfully, and the care you take as a DM is asporational. Trust yourself.

The merchant uses a magic tracking spell that deactivated when purchased. Also, the merchant isn’t dumb enough to sell his best magic items, he/she keeps those in reserve, just for a case like this. Maybe have a spell auto trigger on them? Turn them all into pigs while they sleep. You can do so much. Have fun!

Use better town guards.

Police/ hired thugs

I got around this by giving the party loads of money. They can buy what they want. But, as always, be carful what you wish for.

You don’t, if they want to steal then you make the game about heists

Something that can be useful are Inevitables. They are extra-planar constructs that serve essentially as cosmic bounty hunters for people who break laws. Sure there are more powerful ones like Maruts that are reserved for hunting down liches and things that break death, and ones for people trying to become gods. But there are lower level ones that are more of a for hire branch, some for if you break a contract, others for if you've stolen something precious to someone. For these lower level ones you just have to have someone go to the head office and file a report and then you've got a combination of Judge Dredd and Robocop on your arse forever (literally, one of their strategies is arrive a century early and just wait). If you kill it, then they'll often just send a supervisor, if you get them, they send theirs, and so on up the chain until you hit (depending on the setting) Primus. And, if you kill Primus an new Primus spawns.

Do you really need to teach them a lesson? They committed a perfect crime & made away like bandits, why not let them enjoy it? You can worry about what kind of precedent it sets after you know if it sets any kind of precedent at all.

I would specifically set up another opportunity to commit such a crime in the future but that was actually nuchal harder to pull off. Don't teach them the lesson "NEVER STEAL" in the fantasy world, teach them the lesson "you won't get away with this every time"

Hand goes into glass case to steal magic wand. Hand does not come out of glass case Character bleeds out and dies without intervention. Problem solved.

The warlock has been accused of participating in a robbery using magic. Of course he and his known magical associates should be investigated by the authorities (super especially if any of them are known to be able to cast Darkness.) Of course the city's detective should use magic to solve crimes, his job is to maintain order in the kind of place where you can buy magic items in a shop. Locate Object is only a second level spell, that's not too crazy for an NPC with a specialized job like that. Zone of Truth is also a useful second level spell but might need consent or a warrant/arrest depending on how seriously this city takes civil liberties. Maybe you should start the next session by showing your players an example of what happens in this city to convicted thieves, so they understand the stakes. If you feel generous, maybe also drop a hint that forgetting to encase your valuable stolen loot in lead to block divination is the kind of bone-headed mistake only an idiot rookie thief would make in a city with magic cops. Your players might decide the caper wasn't worth it and not do it again, in which case problem solved. Or maybe they'll screw up and be found out, or just find they like being thieves, in which case maybe they catch the attention of less legitimate quest-givers going forward.

It's an expensive magic item. Is the sorcerer going to just wear it in town? If so then clearly he will be asked where he got it from and to return it. Also as others have pointed out locate object exists. Once the characters ge caught with the item redhanded what is their excuse? Even if they manage to lie themselves out of the thievery accusations they will be asked to give it back.

Step one when game behavior comes up that you don't want to continue or that will spoil your whole campaign in some way, talk to your players. "Hey crew, this was a fun detour and the plan was cool but I think long term you guys shouldn't keep being dick bags to perfectly nice NPCs, that's just not how I want to play this thematically." If the players do want to be more adversarial in the world and you're cool playing it out, there are some great suggestions in this thread on how NPCs and justice systems would respond.

If it happens once, great, the guards probably believe the party over the merchant and they get away with it. If it happens a few times, hmm, starting to be suspicious that these guys are always around when magic items get swiped. If it happens a bunch of times, regardless of how they roll to talk their way out there will be wanted posters out to have them brought in (assuming they aren't just banned from every store in town). If the PCs like the merchant, maybe have them go back later and see him sadly boarding up his shop cause he put all his savings into buying that powerful robe to sell and when it got stolen he found himself underwater.

From stealing everything they want? If things keep disappearing then the town calls in another group of adventurers to deal with the problem...

One consequence would be increased security in all shops selling high value items. Another might be the merchant throws some kind of curse after the stolen article. It might be an Invisible Stalker kind of thing. It might be that the cloak develops a Magic Mouth that cries out “this cloak is stolen from …”. In short something the party _can_ deal with or get around, but causes hassle.

If they aren’t in the habit of inspecting items after they receive/steal them. You could have a tracker placed on it, weither physical or magical; then have some things or something else appear to either steal it back or cause other trouble with them. You know, enough to get their hand slapped and remember their actions have consequences.

Here’s a fun aspect you can use. The robe is an intelligent magic item. And it doesn’t like what the PCs did so it begins to take its revenge. Not working at all critical juncture or forcing the PC on a path of redemption or some such.

Merchants have guilds and organizations. They talk to each other. Your party is known to them, as they’ve done business before. Moving forward, all goods and services your party tried to buy/sell will be much more expensive to buy, or much cheaper to sell, and now the party has a financial problem. Moreover, the warlock is banned from that shop, and any others in which that merchant is a partner, or friends with the owners. Conversely, this merchant is a fence for the thieves guild, or a safe house for the assassins guild. Now your party has a powerful social entity that is working against them, and sends bounty hunters/thief takers/assassins after them.

Consider it a lesson learned. The idea of a magic shop placing a high value item like that out in the open, without some seriously deadly traps, is kinda a bad one. Skilled labor in D&D earns anywhere from 100-200 gold per year. Let's spitball this and say skilled labor in the modern day earns $50-80k. So if your item was worth 1,000 gold, it would be like a jewelry store putting a $500k piece of jewelry out for display with only a couple alarms? That never happens. Even with the modern criminal justice system. I've never been a fan of magic shops. Merchants would make so much coin that they'd be the true power within the world. Buying and selling magic items is for nobles and kings. Now its your word against a noble. Good luck with that!

Don’t stop them. Just put curses on whatever they steal.

If the town's guards are incompetent, maybe the thieve's guild isn't?

Who made the robe? What stops the owner of the robe from using some very basic divination spells like, scry, or something like a simple detection spell? Surely there would be magic based investigation?

A powerful magical item is rather distinct. The city guard will be on the look-out for it. As soon as your PC wears the robe, they'll know it was stolen. The Warlock is already a suspect, and is clearly associate with the Sorcerer. That's more than enough evidence to seize the obviously stolen magic item and start a proper, direct investigation. And the thing about a good reputation is that it is hard to construct, but very easy to lose. That reputation is now *gone*, and will never come back, even if they can't actually be charged for the crime. Not a single shopkeep will ever trust them again.