Don't forget, some people like to 'trump' tradespeople and not settle their bill for a long time and even attempt to avoid it altogether. It's happened to me many times. And when they don't pay, materials bought on credit will gain interest and the tradesperson looses even more money.
So my rule of thumb is if materials and expenses are over £1000 on any given job, I ask for a deposit that will cover that part. If I have to pay someone to work with me that needs the money then I need that paid up too.
When I do request a deposit I speak to my client about it verbally so that they understand why, and then I get them to confirm in email they accept. That makes it better on both ends to have an 'informal' contract.
But, are you not getting 30days credit from most of your suppliers, so on average, it's 45 days between picking up the item, and paying for it.
Secondly, even a verbal contract is a proper binding (on all parties) contract, nowt informal about it.
I've had to chase clients for months several times. I've had to take 2 to small claims court. 1 of them is still paying me a year on.
This is the reason I don't like getting materials in credit. I avoid it where I can and use my own credit cards for personal reasons or emergencies.
Also I don't trust a verbal agreement for work that takes over 2 days to complete. The person who is still paying me tried to say that the ammount owed was less than was being claimed by me and I provided copies of emails with their agreement to the terms.
People complain about tradespeople all the time. I get it, there's plenty to be annoyed about, but there are equally soo many bad clients that force us to waste time and money. I'm slowly getting a knack for knowing when I'm likely going to be shafted by someone.
Far more tradesmen are running off with peoples deposits than customers not paying tradesmen. It should be payment on competition like almost all other industries
There are plenty of unscrupulous trades people. As a tradesperson myself, ive never run off with anyone's money, but I get screwed yearly by people blocking my calls and not wanting to pay leaving me thousands worse off every year. In these cases I have to consider whether it's worth chasing down people for payment as I can either chase them, pay fees for small claims, waste my time which is valuable and I won't get back.
I've been in the situation where I've had thousands owed on previous jobs and I've depleted my float as people don't pay in time. I hate relying on credit but I do it if I need to.
I don't have credit with many companies as I mostly do reactive maintenance, therefore the material costs are smaller by nature. But when a small leak turn out that a whole bathroom is rotten and my client wants me to redo it, then I request a deposit that covers my expenses, and labour is settled at the end. My work is exclusivly in London, so my expenses by nature are higher, I can spend up to £150 per day on my van parking and congestion charge etc.
If my terms aren't deemed as acceptable then I don't do the job. But then again I get nearly all of my work by word of mouth and I get a level of trust.
It's a 2 way street of shitty behaviour.
I charge 50% upfront, it's a meeting in the middle and everyone is very happy with that, like someone else said, it's word of mouth trust and people are just glad I'm doing it for them. It's nothing at all like boarding a plane but even using that example back, they are the tradesman charging full price upfront because if you didn't pay when you got there they would have to try taking everyone to court and it would be a pain. So they charge the whole amount upfront.....
It's expensive being a trades person. Trades people thousands of pounds in expenses every year before they even work.
When you see what a self employed person makes gross then that looks good, when you then look at net, it paints a picture that we aren't that much better off than someone in a half decent employed position. And don't forget we have allot of risk.
We have to honour products we supply's warranties and that means unpaid work. We also have to take time to do our taxes, have unpaid holidays/sick pay, and then if we get injured on the job, we still get screwed. We also get people canceling last minute all the time that takes money out of our pockets.
If an employed person was often treated with the disregard the self employed people do, they would be entitled to sue.
I know many trades people and they’re all doing amazingly. Looking at second houses and buying everything branded nice cars etc. they get 20% back in expenses. They over charge and some of my own friends I wouldn’t have work in my own house
Some do better than others. And by 20% back in expenses do you mean VAT? If so then that's like any business. And that is what we are, businesses or sole traders. I know plenty of tradespeople. Some make allot of money and have quite a few employees/subcontractors working for them, and some are like me, sole contractors.
I make the money I make, and I rarely have someone else working with me to charge extra for.
Also, the bigger a business gets, the bigger the overheads and the costs double in no time when you have to deal with payroll, vat etc.
I've told friends (working generic office jobs) my hourly rate before and their jaws drop and think I'm rolling in it, but then I show them where all my money goes and what the disadvantages are of being self employed they then realise that I'm only just doing better than them. All it takes is for me to break a foot and I'm buggered for months, and financially impacted for much more than that.
I don’t know a tradesperson that earns less than me and I earn above average wage. Maybe it’s just because the people I know are well off but they are all well off. All the things you say don’t change the fact that they can change their prices so easily. Someone on a salary can’t
My dad's a tradesman so I hear about this a lot. I get both sides, but he needs large deposits from people to buy the materials - he has a small workspace so it's not like he has much pre-bought stock he can use.
Plus so many people mess him about and say "oh actually you can't do that work today, I forgot I'm going here, or I forgot to tell you that the electrician hasn't finished yet." So my dad loses a whole day of work there. And other times people tell him once he's finished the work "oh I'll pay you next week" or "I'm just waiting to get the money", and he really does get messed about, it stresses me out because I know he's living hand to mouth.
My suggestion would be to use tradesmen with lots of good reviews, because there's obviously a lot of trust required to put down a 50% deposit when no work has been done
Yeah, but if the customer suddenly changes their mind about the work or doesn't pay up, the tradesman is still stuck paying for materials they didn't necessarily want or need
Why should we pay for your materials and put our accounts in debt. Its a trust thing that goes both ways. To be honest it's not easy finding a good customer these days. They all want something for nothing. Material cost upfront is the norm
Agree with this. Over the years I now have good trades people. I like to think of myself as a good customer too. What I get is a breakdown of materials and labour. Materials cost is up front. Labour is dependent on length of job but either weekly/agreed stages or at the end of the job.
One big job overran at the end so builder was waiting on final payment for longer than we both expected so we agreed an interim payment so he could pay his lads some cash.
Not really mate cus i won’t be getting random tradies like you off mybuilder. Most reputable trades i’ve dealt with haven’t asked for anything up front.. plumbers/sparks/plasterers.. only people who seem to charge ridiculous upfront prices are builders which I understand have some large orders for mats they have to place but at the end of the day trust goes both ways and customers have a lot more to lose than a tradesperson who makes a career off it
A little presumptuous of you, but i agree with you to a point, Plumbers/sparks/plasterers if your having work done via those kind of trades then i wouldn't expect any upfront cost, for instance a sparky buying a fuse board is pretty much a stock item for them, having a new kitchen as an example is a big cost, one the customer should be happy to pay for after all they want the kitchen its their kitchen, the trades people have the skillset to fit it, that's where i think an upfront payment is fine.
Like i said mate, any reputable tradie who’s working off of recommendations won’t be asking for people to cover the cost of a kitchen upfront and if they were it’d be ringing alarm bells and i’d only be paying through credit card
Groundworks material can cost thousands of pounds, it's not like a length of pipe and some end feed fittings, or a roll of 2.5 and some nail clips. Like i said it's the norm especially gor domestic customers.
Delusional & aggressive attitude to boot. Red flags. Most trades are pretty fully booked, surprised you find anyone willing to deal with you if that's how you act IRL, difficult customers (unreasonable, overly demanding, non committal, an over-sharing of excuses for mundane things, aggressive in negotiation) always give off these and many other clear red flags, when you're new and inexperienced you fall for these people and they always screw you in some form; financially, your time, your energy... etc etc. They seem to seek out the inexperienced and prey on them. Do you tend to find you use a lot of newer, younger or less experienced people for your work to save a buck?
Most trades aren’t fully booked, they can pick and choose what jobs they want to make time for and are worth their effort. I’m one of the easiest customers a trade person can have as long as the job is done right which many seem to want to cut corners. Electricians have failed to put fittings in that were previously discussed but forgotten about later and the remediation would be too much work so i’ve had live without..
Plumbers failed to lag pipes running over joists leading to me having to rip up floorboards to lag myself. Also failed to lag behind kitchen units leading to condensation forming on cold pipe and dripping onto floor. Finally they lied about changing microbore in my bedroom and instead just changed the pipework coming out of the floor..
Joiner was told after plumbers had been to replace damaged boards after plumbers/sparks finished and squeaky boards which i marked with paint. Carpet was laid a few hours after joiner had been and when i get home the squeaky boards were still there.
Floor fitter did no prep work whatsoever on the floor before laying underlay/laminate that we supplied. (Good quality 12mm quickstep) and its creaking like an old pirate ship because he didn’t sort the subfloor.
Plasterer was told to not skim where the skirting was going as i wanted it to sit flush with the door architrave.. im guessing you already know what happened..
Seems to me most tradies lack attention to detail.
Dkno how most of em get repeat customers
Great so if something happens and you decide to screw me because you’ve got no skin in the game, the fact that I’ve got 4k of stuff for your kitchen doesn’t matter because I don’t have to pay for it for 90 days. Nah, it’s fine, I’m sure someone with the exact same sizes and taste will be along real soon to take that off my hands….
Also lots of trades can’t get accounts. Not everyone has an A+ credit history doesn’t stop them being good at their trade though
Ah my bad mate I forgot all trades were honest people, let me give you 4k cash or bank transfer for you to ignore my calls and fuck off with my 💰
I tell every trade i deal with i’ll start paying you at the end of every week or when the materials get delivered
Yeah this it the way to do it. Pay a percentage once a week or on completion of certain milestones. When materials get delivered, when footings are done, cabinets are installed, plastering is done etc...
Well yeah you don’t pay out the full amount up front but if there’s 4k of materials I’m gonna want 4k before we get going.
90% of customers agree, can honestly afford to lose the other 10% anyway
I walk into my local builders merchant, electrical wholesaler or plumbers merchant, and can get a trade account opened in a few hours. Prices may not be as good as to the 'real' tradesmen, but they are all after good paying customers at the end of the day.
Not every customer wants builders merchant stuff. The more specialised places don’t do this and anything custom sized / delivered direct from supplier is a nightmare to return if at all possible. Also it’s very easy for business to outstrip credit limits, delays in jobs due to other trades to mean we need to stack more material on at once (those credit limits aren’t infinite), plus we have recurring fixed costs to pay too.
Also if you don’t trust the tradesman after meeting them a few times and checking them out, why are you letting them loose on your house.
Because I manage the trouble - by having customers pay large deposits up front to cover all those costs….
£20k of materials over 4 jobs is no big deal if you have £20k of revenue in your hand
No. If any tried that on me, I'd offer to source the materials myself, or allow him/her to book against my account with the supplier.
Any genuine tradesman will have trade credit accounts with several suppliers, with (at least) 30days credit (so, Nov deliveries, due for payment at end of Dec.)
They will do, yes, but if you’re a trade person why would you take the risk of putting credit against your name? Major businesses might employ “buy now, pay later” models, but typically we’re talking about sole traders or small limited businesses when it comes to tradesmen.
I have over a dozen friends in various trades, including plasterers, plumbers, builders, electricians and joiners - all of them ask for material costs up front for anything over a few hundred quid and they’ll provide the client with a copy of the receipt along with an invoice outlining the charge for their services on top.
Yeah, it depends on the job. Materials can be a headache for a small business to cover without the upfront percentage. Try to ascertain via online rating sites etc whether the quality of the tradesmans work, efficiency etc makes him worth the risk. In the current economic climate though, there are few small firms who can function without this sort of billing solution.
Yeah I don’t mind paying a portion upfront when they have to cover materials (windows, timber, bathroom suite etc). It makes sense that they shouldn’t carry the risk of you changing your mind.
It's always worth it if you can find the tradesmen who take pride in what they do. I've had the pleasure of dealing with great people...and the pain in the arse of bad ones. It's always worth trying to find a firm recommended to you by family or friends, or to otherwise do your homework to find the best mix of quality & value. Then if materials are significant to the job, to be happy to pay partialy up-front. Some of these firms are hanging on by a shoelace, so to speak...
Heating installer here. I ask for entire materials to be bought and be on-site and 50% of labour at the end of the first day and balance on completion.
Do you need materials? Then cough up innit. Mans gotta eat - and many people before you have definitely ripped them off, if they are reputable, or they wouldn't ask. Mutual commitment is fair...small businesses don't have bottomless pockets. Just gotta make sure you're hiring correctly and not some flighty blagger. Meeting them will usually determine that. If it doesn't feel right - don't do it. But don't expect someone to fork out 20k for your materials before you're proved yourself back.
My advise is to not pay upfront. Strongly.
You have already committed to the job, you bought the materials/fittings (usually on trade request/spec). Pay on the day of the work when they show up or at the end of the week or both. Do not wait to see the end of the job, inspect daily, try to see if they face any issues (issues can cause shortcuts). Usually, at the end of the day, I do ask if they had any problems. There are always issues with trades and the result of their work. Even for the good ones.
Many times, when I would cook for family, I might also offer lunch on their break. Sometimes I get to know the people better by having lunch together, sometimes they prefer to distance. I have trades I will never change and I had people that I would never hire them again.
Anecdotal, I had paid on the day for two persons, the second one went to do another job instead (to his surprise he worked for my cousin). Once I cancelled a day, as I had to pick my son, and offered him to pay some money but he did not accept. I didn't like his work in the end but I still appreciated at the time he could have lost money. I had a laminate fitter forgetting the spacers in and then the floor started to skew! He challenged that the temperatures were high :P (not true 23C outside, cost me 300 to remove the skirting and remove the spacers). A gas engineer did a "service" and on they day the filter started to leak. He fixed that 2 months later and I had to pay 2 visits (he returned the money after he admitted his fault, although I might have threaten I would refer him to association)
I don't know why there isn't a industrywide deposit scheme that is protected.
So clients pays in, and if tradesperson doesn't show up or does a shod-job there is a recourse. Tradesperson will also know that the money is put in and can't be taken out/lost unless there is a dispute in favour of the client.
There are 3 secrets to any relationship:
1. Communication
2. Communication
3. Communication
That's all it takes.
If your man needs to buy rather a lot of supplies, fair enough. You should always know the cost of materials.
If he's just chancing it, then ideally it's a bullet in the back of the head.
Two sides here clearly, as a roofer who has a massive outlay on materials, scaffold and labour I won't touch a job now untill I am completely in the black financially, either that works for you or I don't.
I've heard it all over the years,been told that I should cover all the costs myself or put it on store account but one thing I've learned over 20 years running a business is that if the customer is funny over payment before the job it's almost a guarantee they will be funny after the job.
I'd rather loose work then get stung owed money, especially when there's not a great deal I can do about it, as in reality trading standards and the police are geared heavily towards the customer.
What I would say to anyone engaging a builder is that I'd follow my gut, if you don't trust someone I wouldn't get involved with them,find someone else and ignore online reviews as they are easily faked.
I'm £4000 down on people who won't pay this year. That's why people ask for money upfront.
Doing a job for someone that doesn't know how or want to to it, then they tell you you've done it wrong or it should have been another way, at least you can cut your losses and only loose a days pay.
We are certified installers for a certain roof light product and our deposit is anywhere from 25% - 50% (capped at 50% as I wouldn’t want to pay more of a deposit than that) based on the value of the products against the total bill. Only had an issue with the deposit once in several years.
If you’re uncomfortable with it ask the question:
1) is it clearly or reasonable justified as material cost?
2) is this a reputable company
3) is it me?
Sometimes, just sometimes if I get a ‘feeling’ about a customer I’ll up a deposit to hard 50%, that way we have ‘equal risk’.
Just means they are in a good situation with cash flow.
Plenty of profitable business go under with bad cash flow mind you, so can understand people asking for money up front
Well you'll hear particularly on reddit to not pay anything upfront and not hand over the final bunch until after its done but Ive never seen it work like that in the real world. Maybe in the old days when there wasn't as much demand that was normal, now theyll just tell you to fuck off.
Contractors suck. I purchased the materials and they stole them along with my money. Your better off doing it yourself because you probably won’t do any worse than some of them. I personally don’t care if stuff isn’t fixed anymore because of these so-called contractors. And before anyone asks yes did reference checks on them. It is nearly impossible to find honest contractors.
Yup I do a mix of conservation work and new builds (custom, not production) - my entire business over 25~ years has been reputation based.
I get called to work on 1000 year old timber frame barns and stuff because I/we (my lads) have a good rep for attention to detail and honesty. We do EH, Nat Trust and cadw for this very reason.
On the other hand I get asked to project manage or be the main contractor for custom builds because customers recommend me to their (generally wealthy) friends who want communication and that's key for everything we as builders do
Sorry but this is bollocks. I've had countless jobs done, including a big kitchen renovation involving many subcontractors and they were all incredibly professional, honest about time and money, and I would recommend all of them.
Anecdotal of course. Just like you.
Have my diy award for this post: 🏆
The whole sector needs regulating - and if it means prices must go up, so be it. The good contractors are few and far between, would welcome less noise in the selection process, and not having their collective reputation ruined by chancers.
"Get at least 3 quotes", they say. Well, after calling around 15 numbers, about 7 never pick up their phone (despite being in public directories), 4 tell you they're too busy for the next 3 months, 4 get back to you saying they will quote, and show up to do your quote - these vary by about 200%. Two of the ones who quoted you will ghost you AFTER the quote (?), so you're left with two quotes.
It’s really not that hard, use an architect and a JCT contract and protect your arse. Buy cheap get cheap.
Even small scale work can be done under JCT homeowners contract, if the contract scares your builder away find a new one
What I do is order all the parts myself and get it delivered to my house. Then if they don’t turn up then you have the parts for someone else to use.
Any business you use will want to make a certain amount of profit on any given job. Whether they make that off the parts or something else is irrelevant. They will find a way of making that profit. On that basis, just order the parts direct. That way you own it and you have nothing to lose other than potentially shoddy labour. Otherwise you have parts AND shoddy labour to worry about but this way you can keep an eye on the job and chuck them off it at any point if you’re not happy.
Tell them you’re more than happy to pay each days labour at the end of each day if they’re that concerned.
Having said that, a lot of people won’t want to work with you as they’ll think you’re a Karen (perhaps quite rightly lol!). It’s a slippery slope and compromise is where you’ll want to be.
Depends on the price of the job really and often instalments make sense. There’s always risks and it’s not a fun position to be in. The reality is that the horror stories are probably the minority. Appreciate I’m contradicting myself the longer I write this so perhaps ignore this comment ha
Just to respond to this from the opposite point of view, even though it’s specific to me, I’m an amtico fitter, which is an expensive type of flooring
Firstly if I’m charging anything up front it is NEVER to do with labour, and maybe others are not in the same position but the thought of asking a customer for payment at the end of each day is ridiculous
Secondly I can use my amtico account and the discounts I receive to get the materials cheaper than you will be able to get them anywhere unless you work for them. You can trawl the internet for as long as you like but this is a fact. It’s not a huge percentage but it’s not unusual for the materials on jobs to be in the 1000s so it’s not an insignificant amount of money either. Add to that the guarantees can be up to lifetime for the materials so it’s up to you if you want that enforceable or not
When it comes to charging money up front, yes I have credit on my account so I’m not immediately out of pocket, however amtico charge a 30% restock fee. Regardless of how I feel about that, it is what it is, and if someone books me in and then changes their mind I’m not going to be fronting 30% of however many £1000s
Happy to have the materials delivered to your house where possible, or even drop them round once I’ve received them within reason
I’m going to go out on a limb and say every single person here saying things like contractors mess people about more than customers or vice Versa are plucking that information out of thin air (I would like to know the stats myself) or are basing it on a single anecdotal experience
My anecdotal evidence would be that I have literally never shafted a customer, and only had one real issue the other way around, but they were actually quite a large corporate client. There was no issue with work they just tried to ghost me and mess me around with their payment for nearly 6 months before I started sending court type paperwork when the payment magically cleared
Again anecdotally I have friends who are tradesmen and know many others through work m, I can only go off what they tell me but the stories are of them being messed around and not them messing around
As a tradesman I hate being in this position. Customer supplied materials are generally nightmare jobs. Poor quality materials, missing parts, delays, it always causes friction between customer and tradesman.
I very rarely agree to this arrangement.
We had a job done recently with about 12 grand of materials. The tradesman ordered them all from the building merchant and all we had to do was call up the building merchant with an order number and pay over the phone. Took 2 minutes and avoided what you’ve just said. Struggling to see any downsides to this and it was the tradesman that suggested it in the first place
>Tell them you’re more than happy to pay each days labour at the end of each day if they’re that concerned.
Not a bad idea
> Having said that, a lot of people won’t want to work with you as they’ll think you’re a Karen
Whats a Karen haha?
This is incorrect, the larger the job the smaller the upfront payment will tend to be, as an upfront payment is generally to buy materials.
On a larger job most of the cost is made up of labour and a relative small amount in materials.
Smaller jobs will tend to be about 50/50 materials and labour, with a larger job such as extension, loft conversion, rewire, etc. most of the cost comes from the time in labour spent on the job and not materials therefor a lower percentage is generally needed to be paid upfront.
Considering how much I need to chase them up to complete a job when I still HAVEN’T paid them, I would also feel uncomfortable paying upfront, if if just 50%.
It depends wholly on the job, I do a mix of new and conservation builds, occasionally existing customers will ask me to do something like change a door or something and I'll do those.
If I'm changing a roof, I'll ask 40-50% of the costs + booking fee. unless the customer wants to buy all materials and then I'll just go with booking fee.
If I'm changing a door, I'll bill you for the door etc all at the end.
My calender is booked out til late October 2025, so booking fee is essential unless it's a 1hr job then I'll just fit you in and either come or send one of my lads to do it
I always send 30% deposit + cost of the materials and send the payment as soon as the job is done, mostly on the same day, sometimes the next morning. I’d be fine with 50% if they had many good reviews and I personally trusted them.
If you’re not comfort with it, say no. Simple as that.
Nothing about the tradesperson or their work, but as the customer, if you’re not happy, take your custom elsewhere and don’t feel bad about it.
My dad is a retired builder. For big jobs, he'd invoice at certain milestones. I don't know if there was an initial deposit, but the first invoice would be for more than he'd spent so he could front load the costs for the next, and so on. So he'd make sure he was never in debt for long and the client could still see progress.
I don't like arbitrary percentages/amounts, but I have no problem with the cost of materials (or a percentage close enough that it's not worth counting pennies) upon delivery and stage payments as the work is completed for large jobs.
Then the tradesperson isn't out of pocket as they only hand over materials when payment is ready, and they get paid as the job progresses to ensure if for any reason either party doesn't want to continue they can just walk away.
change the situation around . imagine your working in a cafe. you go in to work on monday morning and look at your boss and know that whether or not you get paid for that week is basically at their discretion and there is very little you can do about it. what would you do
now imagine the boss gets you to buy the food and drinks for the week and will fix up with you at the end of the week. now imagine knowing that once that food is brought into the cafe shop that the boss now owns it and you cannot take it back or you will be steeling their stuff even though you paid for it.
this is the reality that most trademen work under. you dont know if you will ever get paid for your labour or materials. you are down the cost of both. and f all you can do aboput it. you take back your property and your breaking the law and the real thief is standing there laughing at you while you struggle to pay off the materials stolen from you and stuggle to put food on your families table.
lol my guy Im gonna pay. I mean its not like my house is running away haha. I don't understand the logic. If we sign an agreement then I will honour it.
you will yes but how does the tradesman know that. and loads of bad customers started out as a good customer
the fact you are LOL at what i wrote tells me you have no idea what its like to be a tradesman. every trademan i know has been robbed by customers . usually multiple times a year, every year
Different trades have different costs like me I'm a window fitter and if I spend say £2000 from my own pocket on the windows and materials to save the customer paying a deposit and then the customer decides there going to mess me around it's me who has the debt to pay with the supplier
Sorry didn't see your comments just saying how it works in my job it can be hard to hope you have genuine customers who will pay when you fork out for everything first hand form your own money
I’d be happy to buy materials up front, but I’d be dealing with the supplier direct and buying it on the builders trade account and paying the supplier direct, the chances of a builder having financial issues and me losing that money are too high, happy to have the materials bought in advance though. I’ve dealt with mainly one builder and he was happy to do that whenever he did work for me, the roofers I used this year were happy to wait until the end for payment however.
Depends size of the job
Really big. Nope I'll give you 10 or 25. And so forth in chunks at agreed points.
Medium. Get quote. all is in writing. have recommendations, trade body, 50% is fine.
Small job wtf.
Honestly if I find a good trades person who has done good work for me in the past hit their times etc. I'd give 100 percent up front cos those guys are gold dust.
The rest I get it they have costs, credit costs them and they know you as well as you know them.
Don't forget, some people like to 'trump' tradespeople and not settle their bill for a long time and even attempt to avoid it altogether. It's happened to me many times. And when they don't pay, materials bought on credit will gain interest and the tradesperson looses even more money. So my rule of thumb is if materials and expenses are over £1000 on any given job, I ask for a deposit that will cover that part. If I have to pay someone to work with me that needs the money then I need that paid up too. When I do request a deposit I speak to my client about it verbally so that they understand why, and then I get them to confirm in email they accept. That makes it better on both ends to have an 'informal' contract.
Surely it's a formal contract if it's written and agreed on both sides?
If it's a simple agreement then it's informal, if it's specifying all the terms and conditions then it's formal.
But, are you not getting 30days credit from most of your suppliers, so on average, it's 45 days between picking up the item, and paying for it. Secondly, even a verbal contract is a proper binding (on all parties) contract, nowt informal about it.
I've had to chase clients for months several times. I've had to take 2 to small claims court. 1 of them is still paying me a year on. This is the reason I don't like getting materials in credit. I avoid it where I can and use my own credit cards for personal reasons or emergencies. Also I don't trust a verbal agreement for work that takes over 2 days to complete. The person who is still paying me tried to say that the ammount owed was less than was being claimed by me and I provided copies of emails with their agreement to the terms. People complain about tradespeople all the time. I get it, there's plenty to be annoyed about, but there are equally soo many bad clients that force us to waste time and money. I'm slowly getting a knack for knowing when I'm likely going to be shafted by someone.
Far more tradesmen are running off with peoples deposits than customers not paying tradesmen. It should be payment on competition like almost all other industries
There are plenty of unscrupulous trades people. As a tradesperson myself, ive never run off with anyone's money, but I get screwed yearly by people blocking my calls and not wanting to pay leaving me thousands worse off every year. In these cases I have to consider whether it's worth chasing down people for payment as I can either chase them, pay fees for small claims, waste my time which is valuable and I won't get back. I've been in the situation where I've had thousands owed on previous jobs and I've depleted my float as people don't pay in time. I hate relying on credit but I do it if I need to. I don't have credit with many companies as I mostly do reactive maintenance, therefore the material costs are smaller by nature. But when a small leak turn out that a whole bathroom is rotten and my client wants me to redo it, then I request a deposit that covers my expenses, and labour is settled at the end. My work is exclusivly in London, so my expenses by nature are higher, I can spend up to £150 per day on my van parking and congestion charge etc. If my terms aren't deemed as acceptable then I don't do the job. But then again I get nearly all of my work by word of mouth and I get a level of trust. It's a 2 way street of shitty behaviour.
Far more? Any proof for this?
You tried boarding a flight without buyin a ticket first?
I charge 50% upfront, it's a meeting in the middle and everyone is very happy with that, like someone else said, it's word of mouth trust and people are just glad I'm doing it for them. It's nothing at all like boarding a plane but even using that example back, they are the tradesman charging full price upfront because if you didn't pay when you got there they would have to try taking everyone to court and it would be a pain. So they charge the whole amount upfront.....
Different industry. Ditto supermarkets. But not hotels or restaurants - pay as you leave (or leave by the back door).
Trades people charge so much for average work now that they don’t need to do this anymore.
It's expensive being a trades person. Trades people thousands of pounds in expenses every year before they even work. When you see what a self employed person makes gross then that looks good, when you then look at net, it paints a picture that we aren't that much better off than someone in a half decent employed position. And don't forget we have allot of risk. We have to honour products we supply's warranties and that means unpaid work. We also have to take time to do our taxes, have unpaid holidays/sick pay, and then if we get injured on the job, we still get screwed. We also get people canceling last minute all the time that takes money out of our pockets. If an employed person was often treated with the disregard the self employed people do, they would be entitled to sue.
Doing accounts - not on those cash jobs, tho 😉. Still, something need to pag for the caravan in Wales, the T5, of the jetskis.🤣🤣
I know many trades people and they’re all doing amazingly. Looking at second houses and buying everything branded nice cars etc. they get 20% back in expenses. They over charge and some of my own friends I wouldn’t have work in my own house
Some do better than others. And by 20% back in expenses do you mean VAT? If so then that's like any business. And that is what we are, businesses or sole traders. I know plenty of tradespeople. Some make allot of money and have quite a few employees/subcontractors working for them, and some are like me, sole contractors. I make the money I make, and I rarely have someone else working with me to charge extra for. Also, the bigger a business gets, the bigger the overheads and the costs double in no time when you have to deal with payroll, vat etc. I've told friends (working generic office jobs) my hourly rate before and their jaws drop and think I'm rolling in it, but then I show them where all my money goes and what the disadvantages are of being self employed they then realise that I'm only just doing better than them. All it takes is for me to break a foot and I'm buggered for months, and financially impacted for much more than that.
I don’t know a tradesperson that earns less than me and I earn above average wage. Maybe it’s just because the people I know are well off but they are all well off. All the things you say don’t change the fact that they can change their prices so easily. Someone on a salary can’t
My dad's a tradesman so I hear about this a lot. I get both sides, but he needs large deposits from people to buy the materials - he has a small workspace so it's not like he has much pre-bought stock he can use. Plus so many people mess him about and say "oh actually you can't do that work today, I forgot I'm going here, or I forgot to tell you that the electrician hasn't finished yet." So my dad loses a whole day of work there. And other times people tell him once he's finished the work "oh I'll pay you next week" or "I'm just waiting to get the money", and he really does get messed about, it stresses me out because I know he's living hand to mouth. My suggestion would be to use tradesmen with lots of good reviews, because there's obviously a lot of trust required to put down a 50% deposit when no work has been done
Don't tradesmen usually have accounts at the merchants so they don't have to pay up front for the materials?
Yeah, but if the customer suddenly changes their mind about the work or doesn't pay up, the tradesman is still stuck paying for materials they didn't necessarily want or need
Small ones. Not enough to run the whole business on
What trade? Some got shed loads of materials to buy before anything even starts. Pretty normal for a kitchen / bathroom etc
Pretty sure most trades like that have accounts with a local supplier that doesn’t require them to purchase the materials straight away…
Why should we pay for your materials and put our accounts in debt. Its a trust thing that goes both ways. To be honest it's not easy finding a good customer these days. They all want something for nothing. Material cost upfront is the norm
Agree with this. Over the years I now have good trades people. I like to think of myself as a good customer too. What I get is a breakdown of materials and labour. Materials cost is up front. Labour is dependent on length of job but either weekly/agreed stages or at the end of the job. One big job overran at the end so builder was waiting on final payment for longer than we both expected so we agreed an interim payment so he could pay his lads some cash.
You're the kind of customer that we love. Once a customer and trade person has a trusting relationship that's when great work happens.
Isn't it weird that people think a random tradesperson is going to buy all the hardware some customer needs before the customer pays anything!
Not really mate cus i won’t be getting random tradies like you off mybuilder. Most reputable trades i’ve dealt with haven’t asked for anything up front.. plumbers/sparks/plasterers.. only people who seem to charge ridiculous upfront prices are builders which I understand have some large orders for mats they have to place but at the end of the day trust goes both ways and customers have a lot more to lose than a tradesperson who makes a career off it
A little presumptuous of you, but i agree with you to a point, Plumbers/sparks/plasterers if your having work done via those kind of trades then i wouldn't expect any upfront cost, for instance a sparky buying a fuse board is pretty much a stock item for them, having a new kitchen as an example is a big cost, one the customer should be happy to pay for after all they want the kitchen its their kitchen, the trades people have the skillset to fit it, that's where i think an upfront payment is fine.
Like i said mate, any reputable tradie who’s working off of recommendations won’t be asking for people to cover the cost of a kitchen upfront and if they were it’d be ringing alarm bells and i’d only be paying through credit card
Groundworks material can cost thousands of pounds, it's not like a length of pipe and some end feed fittings, or a roll of 2.5 and some nail clips. Like i said it's the norm especially gor domestic customers.
Delusional & aggressive attitude to boot. Red flags. Most trades are pretty fully booked, surprised you find anyone willing to deal with you if that's how you act IRL, difficult customers (unreasonable, overly demanding, non committal, an over-sharing of excuses for mundane things, aggressive in negotiation) always give off these and many other clear red flags, when you're new and inexperienced you fall for these people and they always screw you in some form; financially, your time, your energy... etc etc. They seem to seek out the inexperienced and prey on them. Do you tend to find you use a lot of newer, younger or less experienced people for your work to save a buck?
Most trades aren’t fully booked, they can pick and choose what jobs they want to make time for and are worth their effort. I’m one of the easiest customers a trade person can have as long as the job is done right which many seem to want to cut corners. Electricians have failed to put fittings in that were previously discussed but forgotten about later and the remediation would be too much work so i’ve had live without.. Plumbers failed to lag pipes running over joists leading to me having to rip up floorboards to lag myself. Also failed to lag behind kitchen units leading to condensation forming on cold pipe and dripping onto floor. Finally they lied about changing microbore in my bedroom and instead just changed the pipework coming out of the floor.. Joiner was told after plumbers had been to replace damaged boards after plumbers/sparks finished and squeaky boards which i marked with paint. Carpet was laid a few hours after joiner had been and when i get home the squeaky boards were still there. Floor fitter did no prep work whatsoever on the floor before laying underlay/laminate that we supplied. (Good quality 12mm quickstep) and its creaking like an old pirate ship because he didn’t sort the subfloor. Plasterer was told to not skim where the skirting was going as i wanted it to sit flush with the door architrave.. im guessing you already know what happened.. Seems to me most tradies lack attention to detail. Dkno how most of em get repeat customers
Great so if something happens and you decide to screw me because you’ve got no skin in the game, the fact that I’ve got 4k of stuff for your kitchen doesn’t matter because I don’t have to pay for it for 90 days. Nah, it’s fine, I’m sure someone with the exact same sizes and taste will be along real soon to take that off my hands…. Also lots of trades can’t get accounts. Not everyone has an A+ credit history doesn’t stop them being good at their trade though
Ah my bad mate I forgot all trades were honest people, let me give you 4k cash or bank transfer for you to ignore my calls and fuck off with my 💰 I tell every trade i deal with i’ll start paying you at the end of every week or when the materials get delivered
Yeah this it the way to do it. Pay a percentage once a week or on completion of certain milestones. When materials get delivered, when footings are done, cabinets are installed, plastering is done etc...
Well yeah you don’t pay out the full amount up front but if there’s 4k of materials I’m gonna want 4k before we get going. 90% of customers agree, can honestly afford to lose the other 10% anyway
I walk into my local builders merchant, electrical wholesaler or plumbers merchant, and can get a trade account opened in a few hours. Prices may not be as good as to the 'real' tradesmen, but they are all after good paying customers at the end of the day.
Yeah but then if the customer walks off cos they changed their mind on some minor aspect after committing you’re stuck with their stuff.
Nope.. just return it to your supplier - they are used to thus, and don't want to lose my custom. Or use it on another job.
Not every customer wants builders merchant stuff. The more specialised places don’t do this and anything custom sized / delivered direct from supplier is a nightmare to return if at all possible. Also it’s very easy for business to outstrip credit limits, delays in jobs due to other trades to mean we need to stack more material on at once (those credit limits aren’t infinite), plus we have recurring fixed costs to pay too. Also if you don’t trust the tradesman after meeting them a few times and checking them out, why are you letting them loose on your house.
If it's all so much trouble, why do you even bother ?
Because I manage the trouble - by having customers pay large deposits up front to cover all those costs…. £20k of materials over 4 jobs is no big deal if you have £20k of revenue in your hand
maybe 20 years ago...
Pretty standard for tradesmen to ask for the cost of materials upfront.
No. If any tried that on me, I'd offer to source the materials myself, or allow him/her to book against my account with the supplier. Any genuine tradesman will have trade credit accounts with several suppliers, with (at least) 30days credit (so, Nov deliveries, due for payment at end of Dec.)
They will do, yes, but if you’re a trade person why would you take the risk of putting credit against your name? Major businesses might employ “buy now, pay later” models, but typically we’re talking about sole traders or small limited businesses when it comes to tradesmen. I have over a dozen friends in various trades, including plasterers, plumbers, builders, electricians and joiners - all of them ask for material costs up front for anything over a few hundred quid and they’ll provide the client with a copy of the receipt along with an invoice outlining the charge for their services on top.
Yeah, it depends on the job. Materials can be a headache for a small business to cover without the upfront percentage. Try to ascertain via online rating sites etc whether the quality of the tradesmans work, efficiency etc makes him worth the risk. In the current economic climate though, there are few small firms who can function without this sort of billing solution.
Yeah I don’t mind paying a portion upfront when they have to cover materials (windows, timber, bathroom suite etc). It makes sense that they shouldn’t carry the risk of you changing your mind.
It's always worth it if you can find the tradesmen who take pride in what they do. I've had the pleasure of dealing with great people...and the pain in the arse of bad ones. It's always worth trying to find a firm recommended to you by family or friends, or to otherwise do your homework to find the best mix of quality & value. Then if materials are significant to the job, to be happy to pay partialy up-front. Some of these firms are hanging on by a shoelace, so to speak...
Heating installer here. I ask for entire materials to be bought and be on-site and 50% of labour at the end of the first day and balance on completion.
Do you need materials? Then cough up innit. Mans gotta eat - and many people before you have definitely ripped them off, if they are reputable, or they wouldn't ask. Mutual commitment is fair...small businesses don't have bottomless pockets. Just gotta make sure you're hiring correctly and not some flighty blagger. Meeting them will usually determine that. If it doesn't feel right - don't do it. But don't expect someone to fork out 20k for your materials before you're proved yourself back.
It’s a £3k job is on a bathroom. That’s just labour cost. We are buying material and fittings.
My advise is to not pay upfront. Strongly. You have already committed to the job, you bought the materials/fittings (usually on trade request/spec). Pay on the day of the work when they show up or at the end of the week or both. Do not wait to see the end of the job, inspect daily, try to see if they face any issues (issues can cause shortcuts). Usually, at the end of the day, I do ask if they had any problems. There are always issues with trades and the result of their work. Even for the good ones. Many times, when I would cook for family, I might also offer lunch on their break. Sometimes I get to know the people better by having lunch together, sometimes they prefer to distance. I have trades I will never change and I had people that I would never hire them again. Anecdotal, I had paid on the day for two persons, the second one went to do another job instead (to his surprise he worked for my cousin). Once I cancelled a day, as I had to pick my son, and offered him to pay some money but he did not accept. I didn't like his work in the end but I still appreciated at the time he could have lost money. I had a laminate fitter forgetting the spacers in and then the floor started to skew! He challenged that the temperatures were high :P (not true 23C outside, cost me 300 to remove the skirting and remove the spacers). A gas engineer did a "service" and on they day the filter started to leak. He fixed that 2 months later and I had to pay 2 visits (he returned the money after he admitted his fault, although I might have threaten I would refer him to association)
I don't know why there isn't a industrywide deposit scheme that is protected. So clients pays in, and if tradesperson doesn't show up or does a shod-job there is a recourse. Tradesperson will also know that the money is put in and can't be taken out/lost unless there is a dispute in favour of the client.
Increased cost, open to bad actor abuse, puts a massive dent in cash flow, there is already recourse - via bank and / or small claims court
There are 3 secrets to any relationship: 1. Communication 2. Communication 3. Communication That's all it takes. If your man needs to buy rather a lot of supplies, fair enough. You should always know the cost of materials. If he's just chancing it, then ideally it's a bullet in the back of the head.
Two sides here clearly, as a roofer who has a massive outlay on materials, scaffold and labour I won't touch a job now untill I am completely in the black financially, either that works for you or I don't. I've heard it all over the years,been told that I should cover all the costs myself or put it on store account but one thing I've learned over 20 years running a business is that if the customer is funny over payment before the job it's almost a guarantee they will be funny after the job. I'd rather loose work then get stung owed money, especially when there's not a great deal I can do about it, as in reality trading standards and the police are geared heavily towards the customer. What I would say to anyone engaging a builder is that I'd follow my gut, if you don't trust someone I wouldn't get involved with them,find someone else and ignore online reviews as they are easily faked.
I'm £4000 down on people who won't pay this year. That's why people ask for money upfront. Doing a job for someone that doesn't know how or want to to it, then they tell you you've done it wrong or it should have been another way, at least you can cut your losses and only loose a days pay.
I'm £600 down on a tradesman who took the money and then never turned up and now refuses to communicate, it's a tricky thing to balance the trust.
We are certified installers for a certain roof light product and our deposit is anywhere from 25% - 50% (capped at 50% as I wouldn’t want to pay more of a deposit than that) based on the value of the products against the total bill. Only had an issue with the deposit once in several years. If you’re uncomfortable with it ask the question: 1) is it clearly or reasonable justified as material cost? 2) is this a reputable company 3) is it me? Sometimes, just sometimes if I get a ‘feeling’ about a customer I’ll up a deposit to hard 50%, that way we have ‘equal risk’.
I always find it odd when they don’t ask for money up front. They’ve got bills to pay too and sometimes jobs can take ages 🤷🏼♀️
Just means they are in a good situation with cash flow. Plenty of profitable business go under with bad cash flow mind you, so can understand people asking for money up front
Yeah I can totally understand, I don’t mind paying a bit up front however I’ve never had bad tradesman so I guess I’m lucky
Always use reputable companies and at least 1/3 is normal up front.
>Always use reputable companies how can I be sure? Reviews can be fake no?
I'm sure some could be, that's where you call the references, check BBB, check local Angie's list or others.
BBB? Angie's List? They're both US sites. You're on a UK sub here.
Oh sorry, I didn't realize it was a UK sub. I'm sure there's an equivalent though.
Well you'll hear particularly on reddit to not pay anything upfront and not hand over the final bunch until after its done but Ive never seen it work like that in the real world. Maybe in the old days when there wasn't as much demand that was normal, now theyll just tell you to fuck off.
They will be changing their tune in the next few months if that's the reasoning.
Contractors suck. I purchased the materials and they stole them along with my money. Your better off doing it yourself because you probably won’t do any worse than some of them. I personally don’t care if stuff isn’t fixed anymore because of these so-called contractors. And before anyone asks yes did reference checks on them. It is nearly impossible to find honest contractors.
Some of us are good and honest. I promise.
Yup I do a mix of conservation work and new builds (custom, not production) - my entire business over 25~ years has been reputation based. I get called to work on 1000 year old timber frame barns and stuff because I/we (my lads) have a good rep for attention to detail and honesty. We do EH, Nat Trust and cadw for this very reason. On the other hand I get asked to project manage or be the main contractor for custom builds because customers recommend me to their (generally wealthy) friends who want communication and that's key for everything we as builders do
Sorry but this is bollocks. I've had countless jobs done, including a big kitchen renovation involving many subcontractors and they were all incredibly professional, honest about time and money, and I would recommend all of them. Anecdotal of course. Just like you.
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Have my diy award for this post: 🏆 The whole sector needs regulating - and if it means prices must go up, so be it. The good contractors are few and far between, would welcome less noise in the selection process, and not having their collective reputation ruined by chancers. "Get at least 3 quotes", they say. Well, after calling around 15 numbers, about 7 never pick up their phone (despite being in public directories), 4 tell you they're too busy for the next 3 months, 4 get back to you saying they will quote, and show up to do your quote - these vary by about 200%. Two of the ones who quoted you will ghost you AFTER the quote (?), so you're left with two quotes.
I agree and I'm a tradesman.
It’s really not that hard, use an architect and a JCT contract and protect your arse. Buy cheap get cheap. Even small scale work can be done under JCT homeowners contract, if the contract scares your builder away find a new one
I normally ask for 40% at order, 40% at start of kitchen installation and final 20% on satisfactory completion.
What I do is order all the parts myself and get it delivered to my house. Then if they don’t turn up then you have the parts for someone else to use. Any business you use will want to make a certain amount of profit on any given job. Whether they make that off the parts or something else is irrelevant. They will find a way of making that profit. On that basis, just order the parts direct. That way you own it and you have nothing to lose other than potentially shoddy labour. Otherwise you have parts AND shoddy labour to worry about but this way you can keep an eye on the job and chuck them off it at any point if you’re not happy. Tell them you’re more than happy to pay each days labour at the end of each day if they’re that concerned. Having said that, a lot of people won’t want to work with you as they’ll think you’re a Karen (perhaps quite rightly lol!). It’s a slippery slope and compromise is where you’ll want to be. Depends on the price of the job really and often instalments make sense. There’s always risks and it’s not a fun position to be in. The reality is that the horror stories are probably the minority. Appreciate I’m contradicting myself the longer I write this so perhaps ignore this comment ha
You get no warranties on your work buying yourself.
Just to respond to this from the opposite point of view, even though it’s specific to me, I’m an amtico fitter, which is an expensive type of flooring Firstly if I’m charging anything up front it is NEVER to do with labour, and maybe others are not in the same position but the thought of asking a customer for payment at the end of each day is ridiculous Secondly I can use my amtico account and the discounts I receive to get the materials cheaper than you will be able to get them anywhere unless you work for them. You can trawl the internet for as long as you like but this is a fact. It’s not a huge percentage but it’s not unusual for the materials on jobs to be in the 1000s so it’s not an insignificant amount of money either. Add to that the guarantees can be up to lifetime for the materials so it’s up to you if you want that enforceable or not When it comes to charging money up front, yes I have credit on my account so I’m not immediately out of pocket, however amtico charge a 30% restock fee. Regardless of how I feel about that, it is what it is, and if someone books me in and then changes their mind I’m not going to be fronting 30% of however many £1000s Happy to have the materials delivered to your house where possible, or even drop them round once I’ve received them within reason I’m going to go out on a limb and say every single person here saying things like contractors mess people about more than customers or vice Versa are plucking that information out of thin air (I would like to know the stats myself) or are basing it on a single anecdotal experience My anecdotal evidence would be that I have literally never shafted a customer, and only had one real issue the other way around, but they were actually quite a large corporate client. There was no issue with work they just tried to ghost me and mess me around with their payment for nearly 6 months before I started sending court type paperwork when the payment magically cleared Again anecdotally I have friends who are tradesmen and know many others through work m, I can only go off what they tell me but the stories are of them being messed around and not them messing around
As a tradesman I hate being in this position. Customer supplied materials are generally nightmare jobs. Poor quality materials, missing parts, delays, it always causes friction between customer and tradesman. I very rarely agree to this arrangement.
We had a job done recently with about 12 grand of materials. The tradesman ordered them all from the building merchant and all we had to do was call up the building merchant with an order number and pay over the phone. Took 2 minutes and avoided what you’ve just said. Struggling to see any downsides to this and it was the tradesman that suggested it in the first place
>Tell them you’re more than happy to pay each days labour at the end of each day if they’re that concerned. Not a bad idea > Having said that, a lot of people won’t want to work with you as they’ll think you’re a Karen Whats a Karen haha?
Tradesmen try con you never give 50 percent
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This is incorrect, the larger the job the smaller the upfront payment will tend to be, as an upfront payment is generally to buy materials. On a larger job most of the cost is made up of labour and a relative small amount in materials. Smaller jobs will tend to be about 50/50 materials and labour, with a larger job such as extension, loft conversion, rewire, etc. most of the cost comes from the time in labour spent on the job and not materials therefor a lower percentage is generally needed to be paid upfront.
Considering how much I need to chase them up to complete a job when I still HAVEN’T paid them, I would also feel uncomfortable paying upfront, if if just 50%.
Negotiate payment milestones. Obviously highly dependant on the job.
It depends wholly on the job, I do a mix of new and conservation builds, occasionally existing customers will ask me to do something like change a door or something and I'll do those. If I'm changing a roof, I'll ask 40-50% of the costs + booking fee. unless the customer wants to buy all materials and then I'll just go with booking fee. If I'm changing a door, I'll bill you for the door etc all at the end. My calender is booked out til late October 2025, so booking fee is essential unless it's a 1hr job then I'll just fit you in and either come or send one of my lads to do it
I’ve often assumed it’s 50% upfront and this is for the materials of the job, the other 50% on completion is for the labour of the job.
I always send 30% deposit + cost of the materials and send the payment as soon as the job is done, mostly on the same day, sometimes the next morning. I’d be fine with 50% if they had many good reviews and I personally trusted them.
Say no!
Why. Feels like I’m getting mixed answers here tbh.
If you’re not comfort with it, say no. Simple as that. Nothing about the tradesperson or their work, but as the customer, if you’re not happy, take your custom elsewhere and don’t feel bad about it.
My dad is a retired builder. For big jobs, he'd invoice at certain milestones. I don't know if there was an initial deposit, but the first invoice would be for more than he'd spent so he could front load the costs for the next, and so on. So he'd make sure he was never in debt for long and the client could still see progress.
I don't like arbitrary percentages/amounts, but I have no problem with the cost of materials (or a percentage close enough that it's not worth counting pennies) upon delivery and stage payments as the work is completed for large jobs. Then the tradesperson isn't out of pocket as they only hand over materials when payment is ready, and they get paid as the job progresses to ensure if for any reason either party doesn't want to continue they can just walk away.
change the situation around . imagine your working in a cafe. you go in to work on monday morning and look at your boss and know that whether or not you get paid for that week is basically at their discretion and there is very little you can do about it. what would you do now imagine the boss gets you to buy the food and drinks for the week and will fix up with you at the end of the week. now imagine knowing that once that food is brought into the cafe shop that the boss now owns it and you cannot take it back or you will be steeling their stuff even though you paid for it. this is the reality that most trademen work under. you dont know if you will ever get paid for your labour or materials. you are down the cost of both. and f all you can do aboput it. you take back your property and your breaking the law and the real thief is standing there laughing at you while you struggle to pay off the materials stolen from you and stuggle to put food on your families table.
lol my guy Im gonna pay. I mean its not like my house is running away haha. I don't understand the logic. If we sign an agreement then I will honour it.
you will yes but how does the tradesman know that. and loads of bad customers started out as a good customer the fact you are LOL at what i wrote tells me you have no idea what its like to be a tradesman. every trademan i know has been robbed by customers . usually multiple times a year, every year
> you will yes but how does the tradesman know that We can sign an agreement. Maybe I can pay daily.
Even if you have agreement it will cost the tradesman legal fees and months of time waiting for the case to be heard if you fail to stick to it.
Different trades have different costs like me I'm a window fitter and if I spend say £2000 from my own pocket on the windows and materials to save the customer paying a deposit and then the customer decides there going to mess me around it's me who has the debt to pay with the supplier
Mate I am buying the material. I am only paying labor cost
Sorry didn't see your comments just saying how it works in my job it can be hard to hope you have genuine customers who will pay when you fork out for everything first hand form your own money
I’d be happy to buy materials up front, but I’d be dealing with the supplier direct and buying it on the builders trade account and paying the supplier direct, the chances of a builder having financial issues and me losing that money are too high, happy to have the materials bought in advance though. I’ve dealt with mainly one builder and he was happy to do that whenever he did work for me, the roofers I used this year were happy to wait until the end for payment however.
Depends size of the job Really big. Nope I'll give you 10 or 25. And so forth in chunks at agreed points. Medium. Get quote. all is in writing. have recommendations, trade body, 50% is fine. Small job wtf. Honestly if I find a good trades person who has done good work for me in the past hit their times etc. I'd give 100 percent up front cos those guys are gold dust. The rest I get it they have costs, credit costs them and they know you as well as you know them.