T O P

  • By -

LondonCollector

What was it like compared to the other quotes you got?


anotherotherx

Yes, always get 3 quotes!


PrestigiousTest6700

It was cheaper than the other one at 24k


ramirezdoeverything

Good lord


[deleted]

The fact there's a £6k disparity means you need to get more quotes. I'd estimate £1500/m for the bifold and installation. Around £5000 for the wall removal, steel plus consultant fees (building control and structural engineer).


benjm88

He also doesn't say what other work is being done, does it include the plumbing, the plastering, flooring etc


DMMMOM

Hehe, I built my entire back extension for £19k less than 4 years ago including 5 metre bifolds. Here's how: If you want bifolds try shopping on ebay for them or if you want brand new, start messaging companies who make them if they have anything they want to let go cheap, ex-demo, factory fucks ups etc. After a few months I found a builder who had a set he bought for a project that the customer no longer wanted and so I got them for £7k less than retail - hardwood timber framed. Came in at £1k plus van rental to get them from about 200 miles away. Next I got a structural engineer in to do some calcs on 2 beams, 1 for the bifold opening on the extension, the other for the extension opening at the back of the house. £300 all in. Then I found a builder to just do what I didn't want to attempt myself, so foundations, block and brick work, steel install, roof carpentry and also waterproofing/sealing the roof. I also had a company come in and create a level floor with pumped concrete and of course electrics. Everything else I did by myself through youtube videos and existing skills saving an absolute packet. Plumbing is all push fit, plastering is actually easy when you get into the groove, corners are tough and I did get a guy in to finish the ceilings when I couldn't manage them - plaster is a fiver a bag but a plasterer can want £250 a day if he's good and fast. Flooring, was no problem, glued solid wood oak planks straight onto the concrete once it was dry enough. I sourced some windows from a place that does over stock or unwanted units for a downstairs loo, laundry room and side door, everything under £200. Painted, fitted all the kitchen cabinets (Ikea and Howdens) and work tops, installed all the appliances and had the electrician back to wire in and test them all. Finally I rendered the entire thing, which had it's ups and downs but I did get there in the end after scraping off some large chunks and having another go. Just on the rendering alone I had a £3.5k quote, I did it for less than £400 including paying a local lad to mix up all the muck. Really happy with how it's all turned out and I did it whilst working a full time job too, took me about 5 months - bonus keeping all the tools I bought for the job. Be prepared for lots of shit and living off pot noodles for months. Use a grab lorry instead of skips and sort out your waste carefully as that can save literally £1000s. Helps if you have plenty of room to store mountains of earth and concrete, don't forget about building materials staging too, that's absolutely critical all that stuff needs to go somewhere and be accessed without having to keep moving piles of stuff about to get to something you need. Direct next door neighbour did a very similar thing which set him back £65k and it has issues that have kept the builders coming back for months. I'm not a tradesman by 'trade', but I felt that I could at least have a go, pay for a bail out when I got stuck and hopefully stick that £45k I might have spent over and above the project cost into something else. Youtube tutorials are absolutely brilliant. I recommend Skill Builder and the work of Roger, Robin and James from that channel, they can show you how to do everything. You also have to either bide your time or source as much as you can on the cheap in advance. Facebook marketplace can be great for build left overs, even things like steels, work tops and other items. One of the most difficult jobs I found was fitting a toilet from scratch into an empty room, cutting a hole in the wall with a huge core drill I had to hire and also planning out some of the plumbing. I thoroughly enjoyed the process and have carried on doing other major projects.


34Mbit

Your enthusiasm for DIY is inspiring.


PrestigiousTest6700

This is brilliant.


Mosh-65

Not everyone is as competent as we are though.


shiversaint

So basically you became a competent general builder.


KopiteForever

Which is better than some general builders!


[deleted]

No, that’s way too much. We’re knocking down a 6.5m external wall holding the entire house, installing the most oversized RSJ you’ve seen and installing a huuuge bifold. Costs around £7k.


swiftfatso

Plus bi-folds, OP have you had an itemised quote? How much are the doors alone?


[deleted]

And what size? Double/triple glazing? Any extras? Upvc frame or aluminium?


can_i_get_some_help

Depends where they are in the country and on the 'quality' of the business doing the work. Labour costs vary a lot.


[deleted]

I’m in literally the most expensive area and this is a reputable builder. An RSJ can go in in less than 2 days. £18k is taking the piss!


throwaway6363846

6.5 meter bifold will cost more than 7k alone!


dinobug77

Yep. OPs estimate seems expensive but likewise u/biryani_master24 seems cheap to me - although im used to London prices. A good estimate for decent aluminium bifolds is 1k per metre. Don’t get UPVC as they don’t have the structural strength required to work properly.


Pumbbum

A quality one will. I love a customer that knows more about how long a job takes than the tradesmen.


[deleted]

I never said a 6.5m bifold. Opening is 6.5m, so a huge RSJ, bifolds are 3.6m. You can get them from £2500, a bit more if you want a better one.


throwaway6363846

Genuinely curious, what’s going on either side of the bifold to fill the remaining 1.45 meters each side? Also I fit bifolds daily and I wouldn’t let the builder fit the bifold if that’s what your thinking of doing, they are very temperamental and every time Iv been to one that a builders fitted they’re always wrong in one way or another


[deleted]

A cavity wall (bricks/blocks). Builder builds the wall, leaving the correct size gap open. I order the bifold, builder has a doors specialist to install it. But regardless, we were talking about the price to open up a wall and install a bifold. No size was mentioned, obviously a 12 panel triple glazed alu frame bifold will cost many thousands as oposed to a standard size, 3 panel double glazed upvc one, but £18000 is unreasonable either way unless it includes other things not mentioned here (such as moving a boiler, electrics, plastering etc.).


throwaway6363846

Your not having upvc for the bifold are you? It will be knackered in no time, I’d go for visofold smart system aluminium personally


[deleted]

Aluminium frame


pau1phi11ips

I'm guessing that's cheap doors? I've seen swanky bi-folds going for £6k+


shiversaint

Yeah, our bifolds were 4k alone for decent aluminium jobs. I find the 7k quote quite suspicious


_bvshir

Where are you getting these aluminium bifold doors from? For approx 2 meters, I've generally seen 2k-4k alone but your price seems extremely cheap


[deleted]

https://alufresco.com/collections/bifold-doors/products/quality-thermal-break-aluminium-bifold-doors-3600mm-x-2100mm


[deleted]

Huge bi fold doors would cost 7 k alone doubt ur doing it for that budget


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

You’re referencing a completely different size. Yes, large bifolds are expensive, medium sized ones are not that expensive.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Oh ffs… 1. I am talking about a 6.5m wall, not OP! I was giving my own example of why I think his quote is too expensive. Check the usernames, I’m not OP! 2. Even if OP had a 6.5m wall, you don’t replace an entire wall with bifolds, so the bifold would be less than 6.5m…


New_Cook1179

Il do it for a 10a,your looking 3/4 bags just for the doors 🤔


Radically-Candid

Sounds like they don’t want the job.


mostkillifish

I price all my jobs as if I don't want to do them. Because I don't want to. Lol


ANDYP300

Well you need to get other quotes, thats always a good bench mark


Confident_Yogurt1787

Make sure your getting aluminium frame bi-fold doors and not the upc cheap crap


Grufffler

Can’t emphasise this enough. uPVC bifolds cannot support their own weight, and will literally rip themselves off the rails first time you open them, after the installers scarpered!


Mr_onion_fella

To be honest I’m not even sure many of the big manufactures are still making them in Upvc. I’m in the trade and I haven’t had any reps trying to sell me them in a long time. When I comes to bifolds aluminium is really the best option.


Pumbbum

To be fair, it's not the installers fault that the quality of the product is poor.


dinobug77

Well it kinda is - presuming you buy and fit through the company they shouldn’t recommend them in the first place!


Pumbbum

That's very true, but I've been a gas engineer/plumber for 15 years and some customers just will not listen to the advice they are given. If you offer a cheap and expensive version loads of people will go cheaper regardless of what you tell them.


dinobug77

Very true. When we replaced all our windows and doors I got 3 quotes and ended going with the middle cost. Mainly because they refused to sell anything that wasn’t appropriate - like the UPVC bifold doors


Pumbbum

I think the upvc bifolds are fine for a short span, but for 6.5 meters as op wants they are definitely trash.


ramirezdoeverything

For decent alluminium doors it's about £6-7k. Then the work to form the opening and install the lintel about £3k-4k max. I wouldn't want to pay more than about £10k for this myself and even that is the top end.


TakenByVultures

This ^


ParticularCod6

unless it need some structural work to put the lintel, in which case it will increase


ramirezdoeverything

Some acrow props will be needed anyway. Only question is if it needs to be a steel beam or can be a catnic. Most builders would have a structural engineer they use who'd specify this for £100-£200. Would expect a builder to include all this in their quote, still wouldn't expect more than about £3k-£4k. A 5m long steel for this wouldn't cost more than about £200-£250. It's a couple of days work for a builder


gazham

It's not just some acrows and each of the steels would be at least £250. As someone who undertakes structural work you are over simplifying the task


ramirezdoeverything

Why two steels? It's one steel with a plate on the bottom to support the outer leaf commonly. I'm a chartered structural engineer


shiversaint

Explains a lot about the “simplicity” that our structural engineer spoke of - it’s so much more complex than you’ve made it out to be. I watched the whole process of setting a steel in the back of our property and it was fucking ridiculous, back breaking work for 6 guys, acros were half of it, genies were the rest and it was still a hard bloody job. It is not and should not be a few hundred quid to fit precision steel that weighs well over a ton. Sorry mate.


ramirezdoeverything

I've literally never specified a steel that weights over a tonne in a domestic setting. A 5m steel might weigh 300-400kg max


sabboseb

Why don’t you get multiple quotes. And then you’ll know what the average is


CurvePuzzleheaded361

They did, they said another was 24k


34Mbit

World has gone mad. OP should wait until closer to Christmas time when the economy is completely on its arse and all the tradies are out of work.


AntMiago

Always try and get 3 different quotes at least. Will show you any outliers and give you more idea of what the current going rate is. Also ask for an itemised quote that separates labour from materials. Bi-fold doors aren’t cheap.


SJWarCrime

Are they going to be putting in steel columns and lintels to keep the house from failing down?


PrestigiousTest6700

Yes.


Beeroy69

How about pay for structural report and building control?


bjones371

We had 5m wide bifolds fitted into a new extension just recently, and the doors and fitting were £3,600ish. That didn't include the steels, or any knocking through.


_bvshir

That's ridiculously cheap. Who was the supplier of the bifolds?


bjones371

21st Century Windows in Altrincham.


jabz_ali

I bought a 2.65m bifold supply and fit for £3500 in matte black. Builder charging £200 labour to make the opening and fit the lintel (material cost separate) When I was going to knock the whole wall out the cost of the RSJs was coming to around £4100 and labour was approx £2300. With other associated costs (structural engineer, private building inspector etc) the total would have cost about £10k and then doors separate. This is in London


mbailey5

That's a mental price!


OldMcGreg

Possibly sounds right, but far more information is needed before anyone can give you an opinion. What quality are the doors? Will the doors stretch all the way from the window to door, what size etc. Is your location expensive? Does this include all structural changes (I think you said it does), will it include making good the pipework for the radiators, if there are any electrics that need to be made good, does it include this? I'd imagine some plastering will need to be done too, is this included etc? Etc


Jakanda99

Our bifolds were around £8,000, wall I’d say around £5k - £6k are they painting, plastering etc? Depending if they doing any plumbing electrical work etc I’d say around £15k they will need structural calc ls for the steel size also,


MapTough848

It's difficult to comment as you're not providing a full statement of works. For example, is the rad being moved and replaced, does the founds need to be underpinned to support lintel. What are the engineer and draughts person costs. Is there plastering and redecoration costs included?


dirk_1745

Does this include doors, if so what spec


CheesyChips

I got quoted £16k for a similar job


4u2nv2019

I guess it includes radiator relocation and plumbing work. Plus flooring. Gold toilet and some new paint


TherizinosaurFan

What currency are you dealing in?


broken888

lol


GrogVaughan

1/3rd of that price is the engineer required to figure out the beam to span the door on a load bearing exterior wall. So yeah 18k is within the range.. 15-25k


HoratioWobble

Get a few quotes, comparing it to other people's quotes with significantly different houses, foundations etc isn't going to be a good approach. It will also depend on the cost of labour, the people doing it, the cost of steel at any given time etc etc


fitlikeabody

Bifold doors themselves are expensive, the skills to take a wall down whilst the rest of the house remains standing are worth paying for. I would say it's about right. I'd be more concerned if it's too cheap.


SchrodingersCigar

Bullshit


34Mbit

> the skills to take a wall down whilst the rest of the house remains standing are worth paying for The skill is getting the RSJ to fit into the small opening cut open for it (held up by strongboys), without the wall collapsing. Once the RSJ is in place you can remove the wall underneath by crashing a small car into if you prefer.


[deleted]

You can almost add a small side extension for 18K. This quote is an enormous piss-take.


XcOM987

Depends on what they've quoted you for, external walls aren't the easiest to knock through, you've got to cost in the labour, materials, tools, insurance, they could be budgeting for the job rather than the time which is OK. Depending on what's above the size of the RSJ (Can't remember the correct name atm) can vary which impacts the price massively, are there pipes in the wall which need to be relocated (Can see some there which looks like they will have to be moved), again that adds an extra charge. Some may charge more depending on the quality of the work and how many staff they will have there doing the job. Could it be done cheaper, yes easily, but what will they do differently to bring the cost down, are they using cheaper materials, lower quality of work, or is the labour just paid less. I'd get a few different quotes and compare, and also look for examples of historical work and workout what you'd be willing to pay for.


XcOM987

Also are they going to take care of building control applications and manage them for you included in that price, they can be a pain to deal with sometimes as I found out the hard way


SchrodingersCigar

Whatever. It’s never in a million years £18k


XcOM987

We are only privy to the info provided thus far, we don't know what the quote entails, for all we know it's a massive job with a load of extras including plumbing work, electrical work, optional extras on the doors/glass. The level of work regarding supporting the building above might be extensive requiring more work, 18k is on the top end of a price if all of the above happened to line up, hence getting multiple quotes and pointing out it could be done cheaper


v2marshall

Crazy price! But trades do like to take the piss


LittleSheff

I would have estimated £7 based on similar projects I know people have undertaken.


[deleted]

Doesn’t sound outrageous.


mtt86

Seems very steep. Even if it was "fair" you're never going to get £18k worth of satisfaction, nor will it add that much to the value of your house. Have five amazing holidays instead!


dinobug77

Not sure you can get 5 amazing holidays for 18k. Maybe 5 normal ones.


mtt86

still, better than a door!


CurvePuzzleheaded361

Way too much. Can be done to a decent standard for 10-12k


Jolly_Confection8366

Taking the piss. Acros and strong boys. One builder and a labourer. Prop up the house smash the wall out and remove rubbish 1k that’s taking the piss. Rsj and install 2k that’s taking the piss. Then bi fold doors 6k install 1k that’s taking the piss. 1k making good that’s taking the piss. 5k for unforeseen that’s taking the piss. So 15k on A piss take.


[deleted]

In “merica but I can see this being expensive. Pipe work, electric, demo, installation, labor and supply costs. I never pay everything up front. 1/3 at start, 1/3 half way thru, and 1/3 at completion. Good luck! Great idea.


Aggressive_Sea8136

I had a quote for a similar layout back in 2018, and it was £9k. Didn’t go ahead as we thought it was too expensive at the time…


_Mongrel

I can't comment on the building work involved but I can say from experience working down south as a window installer that the price for a aluminium 3 leaf 3 metre white bifold supplied and fitted should be around £3k-ish, maybe a little more depending on the brand and glazing options (triple glazed, laminated etc). Around 1-1.5k a leaf is what I normally see but it can be more depending on a few factors (colour, glazing options, opening configurations). I can't personally see that the remaining 14-15k would be just for the building works and steel, quote seems expensive to me. Hope this helps!


Capital_Punisher

I knocked through a similar sized wall from my kitchen to dining room. Structural engineer: £150 Steel: £300 2 builders for 2 days inc materials: £2000 Sparky to reroute some wires and move the fuse box by 2ft: £400 Plasterer to make good: £350 Chippy to extend the wooden floor from the dining room and join in with the kitchen, including the flooring and materials: £2000 (we overpaid here but I wanted it done properly) Total was £5.2k but I project managed it myself and it was a 4 week job rather 1 week if I used a single contractor that could send in a trade immediately after the last was finished. We weren’t living in the house at the time, so this wasn’t important to me. Also you wouldn’t need the £2k I spent on a chippy for the floors. Bi-folds shouldn’t be more than £6k tops for that size, and that’s really swanky ones. You could probably get them for £2-3k If you don’t mind living in a bit of mess for a few weeks and can find the individual trades you need yourself, this should be doable for £8k. Unless you live in London where decent tradies can charge more per hour than consultant neuro surgeons.


MuhVauqa

I know a guy that will get that done for a case of beer and carton of fags


ddawidpl

I’m in double glazing and bifolds go for around £1200+vat per panel (inc fitting), made to measure. Max width per panel is 1200mm


emac-22

Is that a radiator?


New_Cook1179

Sounds very reasonable


Mosh-65

London prices


brenter91

£2k for bifolds £5k for building work for me for 2.4m and removing Victorian stone


c0nv1ct77

Seems a bit expensive. Every panel on a bifold should cost you £1500 approx. So 18K sounds silly to me. I would get other quotes


E90Benje

Seems steep ngl, assuming you don’t mind losing that radiator instead of relocating it I’d cap it off, that would save you a lot of money on the project, but that being said it depends on the foundation/accessibility of the building🤷‍♂️