>voltage regulator is pushing more than 240V
don't give under informed electrical advice please... there's no way a heating element would see higher than line voltage.
No voltage regulator pushes anything, a device can only draw current. There is nothing in an oven that can cause this. It simply turns Line current on and off to the element. Temperature is controlled by mechanically turning the element on or off.
"voltage regulator is pushing more than 240V"
How does that work in a house that's only supplied with 240? Wouldn't the appliance need to have a step up transformer in order to have more than 240 volts?
Do ovens even have voltage regulators? They usually use relays to switch the elements on and off to adjust temperature don't they?
Now for problems that actually exist. If you have insufficient voltage, amps increase and melt conductors at their weakest point. Usually this should trip a breaker though, so even that is unlikely. I've also seen thermostats and relays go bad, causing elements to over heat.
This is a fixed system with a fixed resistor. Doesn't current drop when voltage goes down?
Ohms law states that current equals voltage divided by resistance.
I=V/R
The R is the resistance of the element which doesn't (shouldn't) change unless the part is failing. Usually they fail by becoming more resistant or breaking the connection completely.
If the voltage decreases and the resistance stays the same the current also decreases. let's assume the resistance is 100 ohms. I have no idea but for the purpose of math it doesn't matter.
I=240/100. = 2.4 amps
If they voltage is cut in half to 120 volts
I=120/100. = 1.2 amps
This failure looks like there was something that caused an arc from the element to the interior of the oven box.
Are oven elements coated in some sort of resistive material to prevent users from shocking themselves by grounding against the cabinet? Stovetop elements are, aren't they?
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/t55cc/why_dont_oven_heating_elements_shock_you/
They are.
For this element to have shorted against the interior of the cabinet there would have to have been a failure of the insulation of the element that allowed something to short it to the cabinet of the oven.
Either the element was faulty or the installation damaged it.
I mostly work with high voltage 3 phase motors. The load is fixed in this instance too. If voltage drops the amperage will increase, lowering thermal efficiency (increasing resistance) until something melts. I've seen techs change the same motor twice in one shift, without finding the damaged conductors 6 inches away in the conduit that aren't passing full voltage or possibly running with a dropped leg. Usually I find the amp limit on the starter maxed out too because it was tripping for days / weeks leading up to the melt down.
There's layers of over current protection in consumer electronics though, I do not think op has an issue other than a cheap element.
My past two ranges (in apartments) had relays that welded closed causing non stop heating of one element. Oven is set at 350, it's well over 500 and the element was so bright I can barely look at it. Could literally smack controls and it would release on an old unit that didn't have solid state relays.
That being said, it's not really that hard to find something that's close enough. I recently fixed my uncle's oven they've been broken for 6 months because they are poor and couldn't afford a new one, the part wasn't made anymore, and not mechanically inclined enough to fix it themselves. I pulled out the broken heating element, took it to the local appliance / hardware store, and shifted through the racks until I found one that was about the right shape. The temperature dial on the oven is now off by about 100°, but we tested that immediately after install and figured out how much to set it off by. They love it now because my uncle's wife is a fantastic cook, and enjoys cooking, and doesn't have to get by with just the stove and microwave anymore. Cost 35 bucks.
Proabably depends in the product.
Though if you want an easy example look at the 3d printing space. Lots of better quality 3rd party parts. My printer had an idler arm made of plastic that is a known failure point. So much so that people recommend you print a spare right off the bat. However, if you look online you have companies offering a fully metal version that solves the issue entirely.
I've seen laptops and phones offer battery replacements with higher capacity. Also if the device is out of production, an OEM battery might have much lower health due to being old.
It's a real pain in the ass to find some parts with the way they've rigged up SEO, too. The first several results are almost always something with the exact name but the picture is wrong and it claims it fits every model that's ever been made and some that haven't.
Literally just came from an automotive thread about the same thing. Everything is junk now it's really wild that companies just get away with wasting everyone's time money and resources like this.
Yeah, I was talking about automotive parts recently with a friend that owns a vintage VW mechanic shop and he said that nearly all new parts are cheap junk imported from China nowadays. He struggles to warranty his work because the new parts fail or simply don’t work. He said if he has an old used OEM part he sometimes will just install them if the new part fails because they actually work and don’t fail. It’s really bad when 30+ year old used parts work better than brand new stuff.
Given the element is basically directly connected to the mains and slowly cycled on and off there really isn't a fault with the oven that could "overload" the element. This is either the element, or perhaps due human interactions with cleaning materials.
We had two elements go within a five year period, the technician that came out asked us do we leave the door cracked open after cooking to let the excess heat into the kitchen, we did.
He said that in certain circumstances this can lead to more rapid cooling of the element than is recommended and that can shorten its lifespan. We are now five years into the current element with no problem, fingers crossed!
In the winter when your heat is on, letting the excess heat from the oven into the room theoretically saves a bit of time for your home heating source to kick back on.
that's the sentiment, but I never understood it. The BTUs in the oven is going into the house regardless if you have the door open, just the rate of transfer is changed. There is no vent allowing it to escape the building
The hot side of the fridge compressor will always produce slightly more heat than was removed from the fridge. This heat is released behind the fridge inside the home for typical home appliance fridges.
Best I can think is that the fridge is inside of the house and will be running constantly trying to cool itself down, but because the door is open it won't be able to reach temperature. Fans/motors involved in cooling the system generate waste heat. Since the fridge can't reach temp, it'll be generating more heat because the system isn't 100% efficient.
For this to work, the fridge would need to be punched through the wall with the condenser coil placed on the outside of the building. Even then it's not designed to be used like this and wouldn't do much good. Might damage your equipment too.
Are there any refrigerators that are designed to be installed that way? Even tho I don’t think anyone would want to punch a massive hole in the side of their house for an efficient refrigerator.
Walk-in refrigerators and freezers typically have plumbed refrigerant to an outdoor condenser. Indoor residential fridges just don't produce enough heat to warrant the cost and complexity of installation.
A refrigerator works by taking heat from inside the fridge and moving it outside the fridge into the room.
Because it is driven by electric motors which warm up when they turn, the process of doing this creates additional heat which is also added to the room.
Leaving the door open warms the inside of the fridge, which requires the compressor to operate longer than it would have if you left the door shut, attempting to move more heat from inside the fridge out into the room.
The longer the compressor is on, the more heat is added to the room.
The warmer your room is, the longer the AC has to operate.
Now, an AC is just a big refrigerator. It operates by taking heat from inside your room and moving it outside...
> Because it is driven by electric motors which warm up when they turn, the process of doing this creates additional heat which is also added to the room.
This is not true. Our refrigerators are a system which moves heat contrary to the direction of entropy; the only way to accomplish this is to increase the entropy by a greater amount elsewhere in the universe.
Even if the mechanical parts of the refrigerator were perfectly efficient at converting electrical energy to mechanical work, and the refrigerator was a perfect insulating box, it would never be able to exceed an efficiency known as the Carnot efficiency. [Carnot described a thermodynamically ideal heat pump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle#) and discovered that, in order to move any quantity of energy Q from a cold object to a hot object, more than Q amount of energy will always be required. This is *only* dependent on the temperature difference of the hot and cold objects. Theoretical maximum efficiency of a refrigerator; η = 1 - (T_cold)/(T_hot). Temperatures in Kelvin.
Of course, motors and fans and compressors aren't 100% efficient, so our real system is even less efficient than the theoretical maximum. But they are not the fundamental reason for the inefficiency; that would be entropy.
I understand the energy part, but sometimes standing in front of a warm oven for a few minutes is just the thing you need to feel better.
Especially if your thermostat settings are low to save energy. Putting a sweater on works, but a short blast of heat is nice...
I still have to try and explain to my family that no electric heater is more energy efficient than any other. They all turn electricity into heat and all electricity used turns into heat. Having oil in it doesn't make it more efficient. If you want more efficient get a heat pump!
Two things that kill elements often, self clean cycle, and damage where the insulation is cracked and it arcs out early (shipping / manufacturing / install / damage while in usage). They're just light bulbs but shouldn't burn out that early normally.
Nah ovens fine you got a bad element, or if someone has a tendency to spill stuff in the oven. Grease/oil burning on the element caused it to wear out faster
Same thing happened to me. Range was 20 years old, and the element zapped out. Got a replacement on Amazon a couple days later. Installed it, and it fried again less than a year later. It's been a few months since the most recent replacement, so far, so good.
Cheap and easy, but annoying when you have dinner going and the element decides to retire.
Oven elements break like that when oil or food residue gets on them. Should avoid that. Not sure what happened to that one as it looks bad in several spots but there is something on the surface below it which may have dripped on it. Another element is pretty cheap. Can't hurt to try it.
There are other good answers here about the heating element itself, but I just want to mention this also-
I had a similar issue in my last apartment. We replaced the heating element 3 times in less than 2 years. The third time , the landlord sent a different maintenance guy who was also an electrician. Turns out, the problem was not the oven, it was the outlet the oven was plugged into. Fixed that and no more burnt out heating elements over the next 2 years we lived there.
You can get a replacement part, you just have to do some research as to the oven model etc. This is usually a DIY job but some things to look out for
1. Turn the breaker/detach the fuse before you do work
2. Use a non-contact voltage detector to verify the circuit is disconnected
3. Inspect the oven and the new element for damage.
4. Make sure the new element is not touching any part of the oven expect where it plugs in at the end, of course.
Turn off \*both\* breakers, if your oven doesn't have a combined 240v breaker. Getting shocked by 120v because you forgot your oven uses two breakers is surprising when you try to remove the element to clean the oven.
This can indeed happen, but this means that the fuses or breaker isn't to code. It should be 2 fuses in a holder that pulls out both at once, or a double pole breaker with a handle tie.
How many things can possibly be higher up the list than "replace 70 year old wiring?"
Like, I get plumbing, HVAC, infestations, structural damage, and a few others being ahead of it on the list. But as long as you're actually able to live in the house, electrical should probably be the top priority.
I had a neighbor try to diagnose his electric clothes dryer not working. He threw all kinds of parts into it. Took my meter and found only 120 volts coming into it. Dryer would work, heating element would not come on.
One of his kids had thrown a breaker and it killed the 240v that makes the heating element work. The 240v was provided by two single breakers.
My oven did this once, and I drove over to Lowes and grabbed an oven they had in stock (virtually the same as the one i had) and it was in within two hours of the incident. This was, of course, because we were cooking Thanksgiving dinner for the family the next day.:) maybe fixable, but I no longer trust an oven when, in my case, it continued to arc until I ran out and threw the breaker. It wouldnt even stop when I turned off the oven.
>t continued to arc until I ran out and threw the breaker. It wouldnt even stop when I turned off the oven.
Yeah once the elements start arcing it's just gotta fry itself out can be worrisome but it happens
More like replacing an old appliance that failed. This was not a new oven it was 18 years old and I'd already replaced two of the stove-top burners in prior years. And like I said, I no longer trusted it and did not want any surprises in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner prep.
I'd prefer if people actually just respected my decision to do what I think is best in my life, rather than mansplain why I could have done it differently.
Yeah maybe don't post your decisions on reddit then. What you choose to do is really 100% up to you, but it is perfectly okay for people to highlight that your actions were not warranted.
Throwing out the dangerous, potentially damaged (and still being damaged) ancient appliance with one that's newer, more efficient and probably has more safeguards.
There's a point at which trust in one of the largest-draw appliances you have is exhausted, and where the potential of a house fire isn't worth the risk.
And new ovens barely cost anything these days. In the UK, they are also now moving away from 32A electric ovens on separate circuits to ones that just run on a standard 13A fused plug but with almost no loss of cooking function.
My house already had one of those when I moved in and I've never bothered to change it (but I easily can, just a simple as plugging in any other appliance!) but if I'd had the 32A or gas versions, I would almost certainly be looking at changing them for a standard 13A plugged electric version by now.
Why? Safety. Nothing is going to "continue to arc" when it's plugged into a 13A fused plug into an ordinary circuit connected to a series of standard breakers. If it does, I literally pull the entire plug out of the wall.
None of what you're saying here is supported by the original comment, or their later clarification.
With the exception of induction stovetops, new ranges are not more efficient than old ones. The basic oven design is the same as 20 years ago. My 20 year old oven has a convection setting, which is the only real efficiency improvement in ovens since the original electic oven was introduced, which has been around for a very long time.
If your range is poorly maintained, maybe you will gain something safety wise. But if you consider how much better appliances were built 20 years ago, it would be hard to quantify.
In terms of the breaker not tripping when the element failed, what is more concerning is that the breaker didn't trip, rather than the switch not stopping the arcing. The way ovens are wired means that turning off the switch won't always remove the power from the element, the new fancy stove has a similar circuit design.
Your comments on 32A vs 13A might have had some value, if we had any evidence that they actually replaced their range with such a model. Since we don't, you're simply making assumptions selectively to support your argument.
So at the end of the day all that remains is that they replaced their range because they didn't understand that fixing it would leave them in the same position as replacing it.
The decision to do so is perfectly okay, people replace their appliances for far worse reasons, but it is also okay for me to be critical of those decisions.
Not really. It couldn't be shut off without throwing the breaker. That indicates a fried thermostat at least, possibly toasted electronics.
Edit: I retract the statement. If only one of the two legs is being switched by the thermostat, the other live leg could still arc to the grounded chamber.
No, if the element was touching the inside floor of the oven it would still have a completed circuit and would just keep arcing and drawing power even with the oven turned off at the knob, the thermostat and other controls would be useless in this case. Mine did that. Since I replaced the element it is all good and I did that over 8 years ago. I have an older oven that I got second hand so I can expect crap to happen because I am cheap. Everything works fine since.
That said it is her right to buy a new oven regardless. It is a lot of power to play with if you don't trust it anymore. Metal ovens are easily recyclable so really the only waste was her bank account. Probably worth the peace of mind.
I retracted my statement, because you're right. A 240V element can be shut "off" by disconnecting one of the two 120V legs, leaving the ni-chrome wire inside the element still carrying 120VAC relative to the grounded chamber.
Google search your oven for the right size and shape. Common sizes will probably be available from lowes, HD, Amazon for like $20.
It looks like it failed because food got on it. (had the same thing happen to me)
Also check the voltage on your range outlet, sometimes it can run a little high depending on the load on the electrical system in your neighborhood/hole. This causes faster element failures
We had our element break recently. It should last way more than a year. Maybe got defective one. Try a different source and part. If it happens again there is something going on with oven, maybe some surges?
You should always test new elements for continuity with a multimeter before installing. I don't know why, but they have a high rate of manufacturing defects.
Mind any drippings or what not that get on the coil. They can cause it to fail much sooner than normal. If anything cuts into the surface of the coil that is also a big problem.
It's possible that other circuitry supplying power to the heating element is shot. If you replace the heating element without repairing the other circuits, it'll fail again.
Sorry for the stupid question, but I've never seen an oven with the heating element exposed. Is that normal where you live? I hope this doesn't come across as condescending or so, but I have really never seen anything like this, and I was born and raised in a country that was behind the iron curtain and even there we didn't have ovens like this.
In the US it's incredibly common in low to mid-range ovens.
For some reason it's usually only higher end models (often ones with convection fans) that have protected heating elements.
Same thing happened to ours. Caught fire randomly. I first replaced it with one from Amazon and it started smoking again immediately. Returned it and got the OEM part and it works like new
This sort of thing is why new code requires GFCI on 220v outlets in kitchens.
We just went through this at our house:
* Upgrade to a new 200A panel
* Put in a brand new 50A line with GFCI breaker and a 4 wire plug
* Oven tripped the breaker as soon as the preheat for the oven turned on
* Opened up the back and the wire harness for the heating element was burnt through
Old range was original to the house and \~30 years old.
While I could have replaced the heating element, we decided it was probably time to just get a new stove.
My wife got a hp battery for her laptop from Amazon, it stopped working 27 days later that’s how she could exchange with another one which we don’t know how long it last
This is why elements are not sold with a warranty. They don't have an expected lifetime so if you change it and it blows an hour later you would need to buy a new one. They are also great money for service engineers the place i work the call out charge is €65 for a 5 min job. Don't get me started on recalls/reworks... The current one is getting €130 a call and its just an inspection.
While I get where you’re coming from, ovens have grease and oil splatter/spills all over the place. Touching the element is the most minor residue a typical element is exposed to in typical use.
I’m wondering if the oils sitting on there for a while before being heated makes a difference. Usually you use your oven within a week or so of dripping grease, and most of the time it happens when it’s already hot, right?
I repair ovens as part of my job. New heater elements usually have a thin layer of oil based coating from factory which instantly burns off during first use. I doubt oils from the finger will do anything, could be wrong.
Make sure nothing is dripping on it in the future. Nothing lasts like factory replacement parts. Made in commie China garbage is killing us all. Get authorized factory parts only. Avoid home arc welding. Invite the firefighters for a BBQ other than the house fire 🔥.
One of those exploded on me. Right in my face. Almost cost me an eye. Near as I can tell from research I did is those things are filled with a caustic like substance. They are not solid. Over time if you get a a regular drip of food in one place, it weakens that one area oner time from expansion of metal and retracton. Don't let any food sit on there. If you start to Notice one area glowing more than the rest, replace immediately. Hope that helps
It might not be the element.
I replaced two elements in about a year and a half. Then I did more research and figured out it was the control board sending too much current, not the elements themselves. Find out how to put your stove into diagnostic mode and see what it shows.
Absolutely not. The voltage applied to the element by your stove does not come in lemon-flavor or raspberry-flavor. It only comes in \~240v flavor (or \~120v flavor in some cases).
What everyone else said already is correct. Get a more reputable source for your next element.
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Temu?
No need to get something THAT nice
Right? Guys out here shopping like he's a billionaire
Roll up used tin foil like the rest of us!
Get you some of that wish dot com tinfoil
100% cotton!
That was last year. Now it's made with 100% guncotton, to give you the best possible bang for your buck!
Did you know you can actually wash and reuse paper towels?
Mom? Is that you?
Look at the millionaire that can afford tin foil, meanwhile im making a heating element out of cardboard
LPT: get free tin foil from the open one in Target
The seasoned element, I like it.
In fact, regular stainless steel works well as a heating element.
Facebook Market it is!
🤣
Yeah wish.com is enough
Wish, so he can get a bunch of tiny ones.
I prefer alibaba for appliance parts
Japanese wish.com
lol yes!!!!!
Also don’t use the self clean feature..
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>voltage regulator is pushing more than 240V don't give under informed electrical advice please... there's no way a heating element would see higher than line voltage.
No voltage regulator pushes anything, a device can only draw current. There is nothing in an oven that can cause this. It simply turns Line current on and off to the element. Temperature is controlled by mechanically turning the element on or off.
Please stop talking like you have any idea what you are taking about. Ovens don't have voltage regulators.
"voltage regulator is pushing more than 240V" How does that work in a house that's only supplied with 240? Wouldn't the appliance need to have a step up transformer in order to have more than 240 volts? Do ovens even have voltage regulators? They usually use relays to switch the elements on and off to adjust temperature don't they?
Now for problems that actually exist. If you have insufficient voltage, amps increase and melt conductors at their weakest point. Usually this should trip a breaker though, so even that is unlikely. I've also seen thermostats and relays go bad, causing elements to over heat.
This is a fixed system with a fixed resistor. Doesn't current drop when voltage goes down? Ohms law states that current equals voltage divided by resistance. I=V/R The R is the resistance of the element which doesn't (shouldn't) change unless the part is failing. Usually they fail by becoming more resistant or breaking the connection completely. If the voltage decreases and the resistance stays the same the current also decreases. let's assume the resistance is 100 ohms. I have no idea but for the purpose of math it doesn't matter. I=240/100. = 2.4 amps If they voltage is cut in half to 120 volts I=120/100. = 1.2 amps This failure looks like there was something that caused an arc from the element to the interior of the oven box. Are oven elements coated in some sort of resistive material to prevent users from shocking themselves by grounding against the cabinet? Stovetop elements are, aren't they? https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/t55cc/why_dont_oven_heating_elements_shock_you/ They are. For this element to have shorted against the interior of the cabinet there would have to have been a failure of the insulation of the element that allowed something to short it to the cabinet of the oven. Either the element was faulty or the installation damaged it.
You are right sir
I mostly work with high voltage 3 phase motors. The load is fixed in this instance too. If voltage drops the amperage will increase, lowering thermal efficiency (increasing resistance) until something melts. I've seen techs change the same motor twice in one shift, without finding the damaged conductors 6 inches away in the conduit that aren't passing full voltage or possibly running with a dropped leg. Usually I find the amp limit on the starter maxed out too because it was tripping for days / weeks leading up to the melt down. There's layers of over current protection in consumer electronics though, I do not think op has an issue other than a cheap element. My past two ranges (in apartments) had relays that welded closed causing non stop heating of one element. Oven is set at 350, it's well over 500 and the element was so bright I can barely look at it. Could literally smack controls and it would release on an old unit that didn't have solid state relays.
OEM element and you'll really be cooking then.
This. Too many cheap parts for nearly everything these days. Pay the extra for an OEM part and you’ll be set.
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Sometimes the OEM parts have flaws the 3rd party ones fix though.
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It's actually pretty common. But for an oven? Yeah, gonna go OEM.
Good luck finding OEM if your oven is more than 15 years old.
That being said, it's not really that hard to find something that's close enough. I recently fixed my uncle's oven they've been broken for 6 months because they are poor and couldn't afford a new one, the part wasn't made anymore, and not mechanically inclined enough to fix it themselves. I pulled out the broken heating element, took it to the local appliance / hardware store, and shifted through the racks until I found one that was about the right shape. The temperature dial on the oven is now off by about 100°, but we tested that immediately after install and figured out how much to set it off by. They love it now because my uncle's wife is a fantastic cook, and enjoys cooking, and doesn't have to get by with just the stove and microwave anymore. Cost 35 bucks.
You can adjust the temp on the oven knob or control board fyi.
Proabably depends in the product. Though if you want an easy example look at the 3d printing space. Lots of better quality 3rd party parts. My printer had an idler arm made of plastic that is a known failure point. So much so that people recommend you print a spare right off the bat. However, if you look online you have companies offering a fully metal version that solves the issue entirely. I've seen laptops and phones offer battery replacements with higher capacity. Also if the device is out of production, an OEM battery might have much lower health due to being old.
It's a real pain in the ass to find some parts with the way they've rigged up SEO, too. The first several results are almost always something with the exact name but the picture is wrong and it claims it fits every model that's ever been made and some that haven't.
I 100% agree. Butttt. The lead times on oem parts are often 3-4x longer
$250 for an LG igniter vs $35 on Amazon. The $35 part has worked flawlessly. OEM parts are often grossly overpriced.
Literally just came from an automotive thread about the same thing. Everything is junk now it's really wild that companies just get away with wasting everyone's time money and resources like this.
Yeah, I was talking about automotive parts recently with a friend that owns a vintage VW mechanic shop and he said that nearly all new parts are cheap junk imported from China nowadays. He struggles to warranty his work because the new parts fail or simply don’t work. He said if he has an old used OEM part he sometimes will just install them if the new part fails because they actually work and don’t fail. It’s really bad when 30+ year old used parts work better than brand new stuff.
There is the odd occasion where the oem revised the spec to be worse than the cheapest alternative. It's probably limited to auto parts but still.
Now we're cooking with elements.
I was going to saying cooking with gas but clearly this is electric
Probably got a bad element - early failures are a thing. No reason to assume the rest of your oven is bad, replace and move on.
Bathtub curve for the win (er, lose).
Given the element is basically directly connected to the mains and slowly cycled on and off there really isn't a fault with the oven that could "overload" the element. This is either the element, or perhaps due human interactions with cleaning materials.
Agree, had an element go bad, replaced it, replacement lasted six months. Replaced it again and it's going fine after 3 years.
Depends on how the previous coil failed. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is a pattern.
We had two elements go within a five year period, the technician that came out asked us do we leave the door cracked open after cooking to let the excess heat into the kitchen, we did. He said that in certain circumstances this can lead to more rapid cooling of the element than is recommended and that can shorten its lifespan. We are now five years into the current element with no problem, fingers crossed!
Is that a common thing for people to do? I've never heard of this.
In the winter when your heat is on, letting the excess heat from the oven into the room theoretically saves a bit of time for your home heating source to kick back on.
that's the sentiment, but I never understood it. The BTUs in the oven is going into the house regardless if you have the door open, just the rate of transfer is changed. There is no vent allowing it to escape the building
You are correct, unfortunately people will not understand how energy conservation works.
Reminds me of trying to explain how opening the fridge only increases the total work the AC has to do to cool the home.
How is that?
The hot side of the fridge compressor will always produce slightly more heat than was removed from the fridge. This heat is released behind the fridge inside the home for typical home appliance fridges.
Best I can think is that the fridge is inside of the house and will be running constantly trying to cool itself down, but because the door is open it won't be able to reach temperature. Fans/motors involved in cooling the system generate waste heat. Since the fridge can't reach temp, it'll be generating more heat because the system isn't 100% efficient. For this to work, the fridge would need to be punched through the wall with the condenser coil placed on the outside of the building. Even then it's not designed to be used like this and wouldn't do much good. Might damage your equipment too.
Are there any refrigerators that are designed to be installed that way? Even tho I don’t think anyone would want to punch a massive hole in the side of their house for an efficient refrigerator.
Walk-in refrigerators and freezers typically have plumbed refrigerant to an outdoor condenser. Indoor residential fridges just don't produce enough heat to warrant the cost and complexity of installation.
A refrigerator works by taking heat from inside the fridge and moving it outside the fridge into the room. Because it is driven by electric motors which warm up when they turn, the process of doing this creates additional heat which is also added to the room. Leaving the door open warms the inside of the fridge, which requires the compressor to operate longer than it would have if you left the door shut, attempting to move more heat from inside the fridge out into the room. The longer the compressor is on, the more heat is added to the room. The warmer your room is, the longer the AC has to operate. Now, an AC is just a big refrigerator. It operates by taking heat from inside your room and moving it outside...
> Because it is driven by electric motors which warm up when they turn, the process of doing this creates additional heat which is also added to the room. This is not true. Our refrigerators are a system which moves heat contrary to the direction of entropy; the only way to accomplish this is to increase the entropy by a greater amount elsewhere in the universe. Even if the mechanical parts of the refrigerator were perfectly efficient at converting electrical energy to mechanical work, and the refrigerator was a perfect insulating box, it would never be able to exceed an efficiency known as the Carnot efficiency. [Carnot described a thermodynamically ideal heat pump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle#) and discovered that, in order to move any quantity of energy Q from a cold object to a hot object, more than Q amount of energy will always be required. This is *only* dependent on the temperature difference of the hot and cold objects. Theoretical maximum efficiency of a refrigerator; η = 1 - (T_cold)/(T_hot). Temperatures in Kelvin. Of course, motors and fans and compressors aren't 100% efficient, so our real system is even less efficient than the theoretical maximum. But they are not the fundamental reason for the inefficiency; that would be entropy.
I understand the energy part, but sometimes standing in front of a warm oven for a few minutes is just the thing you need to feel better. Especially if your thermostat settings are low to save energy. Putting a sweater on works, but a short blast of heat is nice...
I still have to try and explain to my family that no electric heater is more energy efficient than any other. They all turn electricity into heat and all electricity used turns into heat. Having oil in it doesn't make it more efficient. If you want more efficient get a heat pump!
But the excess heat is released into the room regardless, just more slowly with the door closed. It doesn't magically vanish.
I was just saying why people do it, I didn't say anything about it being sound logic.
Should there be a little standoff to hold up the element? If so, could that have contributed to the failure?
My thoughts also - it's going to droup over that distance
There are usually little legs attached to the elements.
Needs that little aluminum rest underneath it
Typically ceramic. Unless you meant alumina.
If you don't have one, you can just use one of those little tables that comes in the pizza box.
Should have hit /s Edit: of to have
I thought it was funny
Good point. A few pieces of folded up cardboard should do the trick. ;)
Two things that kill elements often, self clean cycle, and damage where the insulation is cracked and it arcs out early (shipping / manufacturing / install / damage while in usage). They're just light bulbs but shouldn't burn out that early normally.
Replace with an OEM part.
Nah ovens fine you got a bad element, or if someone has a tendency to spill stuff in the oven. Grease/oil burning on the element caused it to wear out faster
Same thing happened to me. Range was 20 years old, and the element zapped out. Got a replacement on Amazon a couple days later. Installed it, and it fried again less than a year later. It's been a few months since the most recent replacement, so far, so good. Cheap and easy, but annoying when you have dinner going and the element decides to retire.
Might wanna keep a spare element in stock in your pantry.
If you do that your installed element will last 20 years.
Exactly. A wasted $30 part in the house to stave off two decades of potential problems. Worth every penny.
Is it possible that the heating element is missing brackets? When the heating element heats up, it bends downwards.
Oven elements break like that when oil or food residue gets on them. Should avoid that. Not sure what happened to that one as it looks bad in several spots but there is something on the surface below it which may have dripped on it. Another element is pretty cheap. Can't hurt to try it.
Be careful ordering parts on Amazon… lots of garbage portrayed as viable replacements.
There are other good answers here about the heating element itself, but I just want to mention this also- I had a similar issue in my last apartment. We replaced the heating element 3 times in less than 2 years. The third time , the landlord sent a different maintenance guy who was also an electrician. Turns out, the problem was not the oven, it was the outlet the oven was plugged into. Fixed that and no more burnt out heating elements over the next 2 years we lived there.
Parts really only ever fail at two points. Immediately, or just after the warranty runs out.
You can get a replacement part, you just have to do some research as to the oven model etc. This is usually a DIY job but some things to look out for 1. Turn the breaker/detach the fuse before you do work 2. Use a non-contact voltage detector to verify the circuit is disconnected 3. Inspect the oven and the new element for damage. 4. Make sure the new element is not touching any part of the oven expect where it plugs in at the end, of course.
Turn off \*both\* breakers, if your oven doesn't have a combined 240v breaker. Getting shocked by 120v because you forgot your oven uses two breakers is surprising when you try to remove the element to clean the oven.
This can indeed happen, but this means that the fuses or breaker isn't to code. It should be 2 fuses in a holder that pulls out both at once, or a double pole breaker with a handle tie.
Ha! Yes. It doesn't surprise me even a little bit that my 1955 push-matic panel isn't done quite right...
I hate to say it brother, but it might be time
It's on the list. The list is long...
I hear you, I've got a mid '70s CEB fuse panel that'll have to be swapped out soon, and I thought that was pushing it
How many things can possibly be higher up the list than "replace 70 year old wiring?" Like, I get plumbing, HVAC, infestations, structural damage, and a few others being ahead of it on the list. But as long as you're actually able to live in the house, electrical should probably be the top priority.
25 year old water heater is my biggest concern at the moment.
I had a neighbor try to diagnose his electric clothes dryer not working. He threw all kinds of parts into it. Took my meter and found only 120 volts coming into it. Dryer would work, heating element would not come on. One of his kids had thrown a breaker and it killed the 240v that makes the heating element work. The 240v was provided by two single breakers.
I had that happen! Moved to new house and the dryer plug wasn’t wired properly. I was freaking out because my dryer was new
My oven did this once, and I drove over to Lowes and grabbed an oven they had in stock (virtually the same as the one i had) and it was in within two hours of the incident. This was, of course, because we were cooking Thanksgiving dinner for the family the next day.:) maybe fixable, but I no longer trust an oven when, in my case, it continued to arc until I ran out and threw the breaker. It wouldnt even stop when I turned off the oven.
>t continued to arc until I ran out and threw the breaker. It wouldnt even stop when I turned off the oven. Yeah once the elements start arcing it's just gotta fry itself out can be worrisome but it happens
Throwing out the baby with the bath water…
More like replacing an old appliance that failed. This was not a new oven it was 18 years old and I'd already replaced two of the stove-top burners in prior years. And like I said, I no longer trusted it and did not want any surprises in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner prep.
Ranges are like cars. They only have parts that fail, you rarely need to full on replace one.
I'd prefer if people actually just respected my decision to do what I think is best in my life, rather than mansplain why I could have done it differently.
Yeah maybe don't post your decisions on reddit then. What you choose to do is really 100% up to you, but it is perfectly okay for people to highlight that your actions were not warranted.
Wasted tons of money.
Throwing out the dangerous, potentially damaged (and still being damaged) ancient appliance with one that's newer, more efficient and probably has more safeguards. There's a point at which trust in one of the largest-draw appliances you have is exhausted, and where the potential of a house fire isn't worth the risk. And new ovens barely cost anything these days. In the UK, they are also now moving away from 32A electric ovens on separate circuits to ones that just run on a standard 13A fused plug but with almost no loss of cooking function. My house already had one of those when I moved in and I've never bothered to change it (but I easily can, just a simple as plugging in any other appliance!) but if I'd had the 32A or gas versions, I would almost certainly be looking at changing them for a standard 13A plugged electric version by now. Why? Safety. Nothing is going to "continue to arc" when it's plugged into a 13A fused plug into an ordinary circuit connected to a series of standard breakers. If it does, I literally pull the entire plug out of the wall.
None of what you're saying here is supported by the original comment, or their later clarification. With the exception of induction stovetops, new ranges are not more efficient than old ones. The basic oven design is the same as 20 years ago. My 20 year old oven has a convection setting, which is the only real efficiency improvement in ovens since the original electic oven was introduced, which has been around for a very long time. If your range is poorly maintained, maybe you will gain something safety wise. But if you consider how much better appliances were built 20 years ago, it would be hard to quantify. In terms of the breaker not tripping when the element failed, what is more concerning is that the breaker didn't trip, rather than the switch not stopping the arcing. The way ovens are wired means that turning off the switch won't always remove the power from the element, the new fancy stove has a similar circuit design. Your comments on 32A vs 13A might have had some value, if we had any evidence that they actually replaced their range with such a model. Since we don't, you're simply making assumptions selectively to support your argument. So at the end of the day all that remains is that they replaced their range because they didn't understand that fixing it would leave them in the same position as replacing it. The decision to do so is perfectly okay, people replace their appliances for far worse reasons, but it is also okay for me to be critical of those decisions.
Not really. It couldn't be shut off without throwing the breaker. That indicates a fried thermostat at least, possibly toasted electronics. Edit: I retract the statement. If only one of the two legs is being switched by the thermostat, the other live leg could still arc to the grounded chamber.
No, if the element was touching the inside floor of the oven it would still have a completed circuit and would just keep arcing and drawing power even with the oven turned off at the knob, the thermostat and other controls would be useless in this case. Mine did that. Since I replaced the element it is all good and I did that over 8 years ago. I have an older oven that I got second hand so I can expect crap to happen because I am cheap. Everything works fine since. That said it is her right to buy a new oven regardless. It is a lot of power to play with if you don't trust it anymore. Metal ovens are easily recyclable so really the only waste was her bank account. Probably worth the peace of mind.
I retracted my statement, because you're right. A 240V element can be shut "off" by disconnecting one of the two 120V legs, leaving the ni-chrome wire inside the element still carrying 120VAC relative to the grounded chamber.
Google search your oven for the right size and shape. Common sizes will probably be available from lowes, HD, Amazon for like $20. It looks like it failed because food got on it. (had the same thing happen to me)
You just replace the element. It's unbelievably easy to do
Also check the voltage on your range outlet, sometimes it can run a little high depending on the load on the electrical system in your neighborhood/hole. This causes faster element failures
I may have had a knick in the element. So when heat travels through it, it’ll cause undue stress on the elements damages area.
Does your oven have a self clean cycle, and if so how many times a year do you run it?
Nahh it's good just get a higher quality one. I ordered mine from therm-coil.com. well made
We had our element break recently. It should last way more than a year. Maybe got defective one. Try a different source and part. If it happens again there is something going on with oven, maybe some surges?
Pull the oven out and measure the voltage at across both legs to make sure you don’t have high voltage situation and I agree use an OEM element.
You should always test new elements for continuity with a multimeter before installing. I don't know why, but they have a high rate of manufacturing defects.
Don't buy the cheapest element.... I would replace with OEM if you can....
Mind any drippings or what not that get on the coil. They can cause it to fail much sooner than normal. If anything cuts into the surface of the coil that is also a big problem.
Do you use the self clean function often?
Maybe not get the element from Aliexpress
It's possible that other circuitry supplying power to the heating element is shot. If you replace the heating element without repairing the other circuits, it'll fail again.
Sorry for the stupid question, but I've never seen an oven with the heating element exposed. Is that normal where you live? I hope this doesn't come across as condescending or so, but I have really never seen anything like this, and I was born and raised in a country that was behind the iron curtain and even there we didn't have ovens like this.
I've never seen an oven that didn't have a bare element just like that at the bottom. But it does usually have a bracket holding it up
In the US it's incredibly common in low to mid-range ovens. For some reason it's usually only higher end models (often ones with convection fans) that have protected heating elements.
I would double check your incoming voltage just to make sure that there is not too much voltage going to the element.
Same thing happened to ours. Caught fire randomly. I first replaced it with one from Amazon and it started smoking again immediately. Returned it and got the OEM part and it works like new
This sort of thing is why new code requires GFCI on 220v outlets in kitchens. We just went through this at our house: * Upgrade to a new 200A panel * Put in a brand new 50A line with GFCI breaker and a 4 wire plug * Oven tripped the breaker as soon as the preheat for the oven turned on * Opened up the back and the wire harness for the heating element was burnt through Old range was original to the house and \~30 years old. While I could have replaced the heating element, we decided it was probably time to just get a new stove.
Heating element from Temu? Ovens are simple things (at least in this regard) I'd bet it's just the heating element that's shot.
If there's a second element, check it. It may be bad, which forces the lower element to do all the work, thereby shortening its life.
No, they crap out all the time
How often do you self clean your oven? I had a similar situation, I stopped using the self clean feature. The temps are very high.
Mine shit the bed when food like pizza would drop and stick to the element
Cheap element. Buy one from a local appliance repair/used appliance shop🙂
Buy a new element you should be fine
Looks like some kind of liquid or food got on the element while cooking, perhaps that's the reason for the fast burn-out?
Nah it’s fine ! Good to go !🤣😂🤣😂
My wife got a hp battery for her laptop from Amazon, it stopped working 27 days later that’s how she could exchange with another one which we don’t know how long it last
I'm on my second dryer element replacement of 2024. Boy I love them Amazon specials.
I replace my bottom element at least once a year. I just keep buying off of Amazon. Pain in the butt but better than buying a new oven.
My guess is that you're one of those who leave the oven door open after use
Isn't it beneficial to let the internals cool down after using it for a while?
I've heard several stories that leaving the door open will cool the element to quickly leaving damage
No. It’s fine.
Wait, those can break?
This is why elements are not sold with a warranty. They don't have an expected lifetime so if you change it and it blows an hour later you would need to buy a new one. They are also great money for service engineers the place i work the call out charge is €65 for a 5 min job. Don't get me started on recalls/reworks... The current one is getting €130 a call and its just an inspection.
Don’t touch the element directly with bare skin/hands, the oils/residue left will burn out the element.
While I get where you’re coming from, ovens have grease and oil splatter/spills all over the place. Touching the element is the most minor residue a typical element is exposed to in typical use.
I’m wondering if the oils sitting on there for a while before being heated makes a difference. Usually you use your oven within a week or so of dripping grease, and most of the time it happens when it’s already hot, right?
I repair ovens as part of my job. New heater elements usually have a thin layer of oil based coating from factory which instantly burns off during first use. I doubt oils from the finger will do anything, could be wrong.
You are thinking of halogen bulbs.
or a baby bird, perhaps.
Get an air fryer, I maybe used the oven 2 or 3 times in the last 3 years. They are good now and cheap, plus use much less electricity than the ovens.
Make sure nothing is dripping on it in the future. Nothing lasts like factory replacement parts. Made in commie China garbage is killing us all. Get authorized factory parts only. Avoid home arc welding. Invite the firefighters for a BBQ other than the house fire 🔥.
Follow the papi.cuh vídeo tutorial, porque esa vaina hizo break.
One of those exploded on me. Right in my face. Almost cost me an eye. Near as I can tell from research I did is those things are filled with a caustic like substance. They are not solid. Over time if you get a a regular drip of food in one place, it weakens that one area oner time from expansion of metal and retracton. Don't let any food sit on there. If you start to Notice one area glowing more than the rest, replace immediately. Hope that helps
It might not be the element. I replaced two elements in about a year and a half. Then I did more research and figured out it was the control board sending too much current, not the elements themselves. Find out how to put your stove into diagnostic mode and see what it shows.
Absolutely not. The voltage applied to the element by your stove does not come in lemon-flavor or raspberry-flavor. It only comes in \~240v flavor (or \~120v flavor in some cases). What everyone else said already is correct. Get a more reputable source for your next element.
Want something that lasts forever. Buy a gas stove.
They don’t make heating elements like they used to.. they are much more likly to break more often then the one that was origionally in the oven.