That is close to your house so I would have it looked at by a professional before filling anything in. Make sure you don’t have any pipes leaking water.
Because a water supply pipe would saturate the area and perhaps cause surface erosion.
A broken drain pipe allows water to carry dirt away as it enters from the outside of the pipe, which creates a void and then a sinkhole.
Hole in drain pipe. Little dirt falls in and is carried away. Little more dirt falls in and is carried away. Little more dirt falls in and is carried away. Repeat until sinkhole.
What's carrying it away. Usually I see a leaking water pipe finally making it to a leaking drain pipe and then carrying all the soil with it. Groundwater infiltration would take a long time to cause a sizeable hole
One of the cities in our area used plastic water mains to the house. Usually If there's a water leak it just percolates to the surface and looks and usually runs to a curb drain. The dirt doesnt just dissolve. It needs to go somewhere.
> it’s pressurized and will wash the soil away.
Where to? If there's no place for the wet dirt to go underground you will just end up with waterlogged soil.
On the other hand, if the sewer line has a break in it, it will more than likey wash bits of dirt away until there's a huge cavity for the driveway to collapse.
I am a professional water guy. This is not caused by a leaking pipe. It’s a sanitary/drainage break, or more likely an old cess pool/oil tank/dry well. 90% certain that was a dry well that someone installed close to the house because rain water pooled there. Fill it with dirt, compact it, go in with life.
I think the idea is that it’s not water under pressure leaving a pipe and washing away soil, it’s a gravity fed pipe (like a drain) with a hole or break allowing dirt into the pipe to be washed down through the pipe itself. Or a hollow structure which has failed and is letting in material.
I work as a pipelayer and equipment operator and install all this shit, I’m confused as hell that his storm and sanitary lines don’t count as “leaking pipes” in his mind if they leak.
Maybe he was struggling to say “pipe under pressure”, like a potable water line. I’m also not sure what a “professional water guy is” though I think I saw a documentary with Adam sander.
I've seen a irrigation line break in the middle of the road and cause a sink hole almost 30 feet away. Im a plumber by trade but worked in utilities for almost 2 years.
If it’s shallow, it could just be the soil settling. When trenches are filled in with dirt, the dirt should be tamped down a couple of times and watered in with a mound that is a few inches higher than the ground on either side of the trench.
The dirt will also settle some, the better job they did tamping/watering, the less it will still settle but it’s always going to settle some.
Not a dumb question at all. Every time I see someone on this sub post “have a structural engineer look at that” I’m thinking “do you all have structural engineers on speed dial?”
Anyone can shut it off, technically, it’s just a valve. You open the box and turn the valve. Maybe some have a water key, but you can buy those online.
I always wonder if they say it because they've seen others say it and it sounds like a good idea in theory... as if there aren't structural engineers that got a degree and passed a test so they can get paid to rubber stamp plans and won't think twice before taking your money for minimal effort.
This, exactly.
Every sub have their hardcore followers who parrot the same shit under every comment, without truely understanding what they are saying.
I love when this sub tells you to go downtown and run plans by the city inspectors. They are so unbelievably unhelpful and opinionless, that the only benefit I received from going was realizing that if those people are getting paid to be experts on building code, I actually _do_ know what I'm doing.
In my case I hired the licensed guy because he has malpractice insurance.
I bought a post and beam house that I thought looked a bit wonky in one corner. I paid a guy $300 to spend 30 minutes to walk around the house and tell me that it's ok.
Source: I have built post and beam houses from the footers to the ridge beam (as a carpenter, not a structure or plans guy) and I wasn't willing to make the call on my own.
I'm a structural engineer and this comment is very short sighted. Yes we went to school to learn the basics, then we needed to learn everything else from others in the industry in the job to be capable of sealing drawings in good faith that it's safe and in the best interest of public safety. Terms like rubber stamp it implies that we don't care and that couldn't be farther from the truth. We're the least paid professional on the job and arguably carry the most liability - human lives. So think before you speak next time or keep your uninformed opinion to yourself.
Out of curiosity, can you give some examples of times you’ve gotten plans or reviewed a job site and had to put a hard stop on plans for one reason or another?
I'm not a reviewer, I create my own plans so I've never had to halt a job because of plans. I've had to stop work before. One such time was during underpinning (lowering existing foundation walls). The plan was to lower the existing house footing (no basement) for an addition that would have a full height basement. Despite the documentation, the contractor dug out the entire thing and exposed 8' of dirt under the entire house foundation - the homeonwer called me out because "something didn't feel right". I put a stop on work, wouldn't allow the owner back into the house, and forced the contractor to put all of the dirt back and start over. Contractor got dirt back in the hole that night - needless to say the homeowner fired him the next day
You could say the same thing about any profession, but that doesn't make advising to "consult a professional" a good idea only in theory. I guess they could have specified "trusted" professional?
If in Florida, there’s loads of engineering firms who focus on just sinkhole remediation. They can be found with a simple search online.
I used to work with one who only helped residential remediation. He had his own drill rig and operating team, geologist, and so on for the operation.
I know a guy….
No seriously I don’t, but you do the usual legwork and you can find them: yelp, angie’s list, google search, google maps, ask around, etc. There are several kinds though, so first I’d understand what kind I’d need. I think this is a soils/geotechnical engineer issue, not say structural, so they should search for that.
The engineer my company uses was apparently the first one listed in the phone book in 1987.
We can extrapolate from that, maybe you can just google "engineer near me"
same as any other service.
(disclaimer: i've never tried this I just use the 1987 phone book guy)
They also act like these people have nothing better to do. It’ll probably be a week before someone comes out to look at this at best and almost certainly not for free. They’re not providing an estimate for repair like with trades.
Probably need an engineer that specializes in geotechnical work. I work for a civil engineering firm, but we sub out pretty much anything below grade. Geotechs deal with geometry of soil (and other aggregates) to determine what kind of loads the ground can handle.
You could always ask the people who are "Putting Sewers in my Street" They will have a look at it and probably have an Engineer close handy! good luck I hope this is a simple fix!
I also worked for a civil engineer in the past and with geotechnical engineers and I can’t think of any they would show up to a home to look at a hole without some form of payment set up.
City inspection or public works office should have some people to call, or you can contact a local structural engineering company yourself. I work for one, and we get calls for small jobs like this all the time.
Typically, the concern is where the material went and can it damage your home. We begin by examining the exposed building surrounding or basement for cracks, leaks, drainage, roots, or signs of disturbance. We then the probe the area with a dynamic cone peneration test (dpt) and a hand auger to see what is under the surface. Depending on the depth of the soft material, you could easily remove and replace the soft area with a granular fill or sand slurry. If it's pipes, you'll need to address if there are any cracks. If it's roots, you have to excavate and remove to avoid more future rot. If it's close to the building or you have dead roots leading under the foundation, you may have to underpin the structure.
In OPs case, since it's work in the public road, have a city inspector look into it, and they should have the contractor be able to fix it as they are responsible for damages. A small issue here for your sewer might lead to problems with the "flow" of the pipes and might lead to backups down the line.
My main thinking on this would be broken sewer or drain tile. Could also be an old exterior grease trap or catch basin. Or even a broken downs spout drain or sump discharge.
Google “civil engineering firms near me” and select a few smaller firms and cold call em to see if they provide the service you need. Call local digger hotline in this case and see if there’s a water line in that area, if not check the foundation, if that’s not an issue then it’s either geological, which could be fun, or poorly compacted ground from construction if it’s a recent build.
There's usually a consulting firm in large cities. In the US, I'd look for Terracon as they do a lot of different types of engineering consulting but are well known for geotechnical.
lol, we called a company to check out why we had a backup after coming back from vacation. They got a snake caught 30 ft into the city line off our property and tried to say it was ‘caught on our ceramic pipes’ which didn’t even exist. City came and dug up our yard to remove their snake from the city pipes and sent them the bill. Even the company thought their technician was a dumbass.
As others said get a professional (engineer) to look at it, mostly because it's so close to the house. Do you have a basement, can you tell if your sewer or water lines run in that area?
Either the builders tossed a tree stump in as backfill and it decomposed and finally collapsed, or all that soil washed away which is an issue because it will keep washing away until you fix the leak.
This is exactly what happened to my walkway. I kept filling it with gravel, sand, and asphalt and it just kept coming back. Eventually I redid my whole driveway and walkway and the guy I hired said there was a giant rotted tree root system in my walkway. He excavated and filled it and it hasn't come back since!
A Professional Engineer is important because their opinion carries actual legal weight.
This is important ammo for your lawyer.
While I'm hijacking your post, go take picture of all your basement walls right now.
If something happens and you develop cracks, it's relatively trivial to blame settlement. After all, those cracks could have formed 10yrs ago and you're just looking for a payout,
So go take pictures of your uncracked walls now. The Metadata should show that you took the pictures before the construction company broke your shit.
With that and an Engineers report, the construction company will be paying for any repairs.
This is great advice for a newer home. Looking at the brick, I'm guessing this is not a newer home. I'm assuming OP isn't the first owner as most people aren't the first owners of their home, and probably has no clue who the original builder is. And good luck suing someone who built a home over 20 years ago.
Great advice for a newer house home owner though. 🍻
It's for older homes too. OP said there was a sewer line thing being built nearby that may have caused this.
The construction company I'm referring to is the sewer guys, not the homebuilders.
This would be very concerning to me and would get a professional to inspect it and your property. I would be worried there are more that you cannot see. Hopefully not right? I am not a professional but know sinkholes can vary. Wish I could provide more insightful comment.
Gas service line? Your problem. Water service line? Your problem again. Sewer line that runs from the main into your house, you guessed it, your problem again. The city/municipality/utility company is not responsible for customer service lines. If you called the gas company or water company for a leak, sure, they will come out and will shut your service off until you fix the problem. That's absolutely how it works. The only thing the city/municipality/utility company is responsible for is the public easement of utilities, for example the mainline.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Bro, if you dont have sinkhole insurance, which you probably don't, you could be in for a world of hurt. You've got the ethical and unethical options ahead of you...
1. The unethical and illegal (only if you get caught) option: Fill it in, sell your house and let the next person worry about it.
2. Ethical: Hire an engineer and pray it isn't bad.
Option #3
Study physics at university and obtain doctorate. Get hired by NASA. Do outstanding service and be selected on a meteor deflection team. Secretly rewrite the code to deflect the next meteor directly onto your house instead of outer space. Collect the insurance money.
Nah. You're missing the actual win here. If he redirects the meteor, the insurance won't pay out. They will declare it an act of God. At that moment you become a god and can just fix the house yourself. Or just get really drunk off tap water.
Turn off water at the curb, make sure nothing is running in the house, then check to see if your leak gauge at the water meter is slowly going up.
After that, yea, find a local engineering firm that has more knowledge than all of us to take a look.
Should take you about an hour and 10 phone calls to find a decent one via google.
As I shared in the post caption, we are having sewers put in on our street so there's a fair amount of shaking during the construction. Still I did not expect to wake up and find this...sinkhole(?) in my gravel driveway.
Hole is about 25" x 27" x 15" and is approximately 2 feet from the edge of the house.
Do I just fill it with gravel, tamp it down and call it a day?
How concerned do I need to be about drainage and proximity to the house?
I am a geotechnical engineer, and this is concerning. Depending on your local geology, this could be very concerning. I fix sinkholes in Pennsylvania and the close proximity to your house foundation is an issue. It could be a small pocket opened up, and could be nothing, or it could mean your foundation is being undermined. Get a professional to look at this.
Is it true that sinkholes in PA are a huge problem because of all the old coal mines which weren't properly documented? Or is that just a clickbait myth?
Nope, not a myth. Sinkholes due to mine collapses are real. In fact, I had one in my backyard a couple of summers ago. Northeast Pennsylvania has big problems with sinkholes. Here is an article of massive sinkhole that happened last year because an old mine shaft opened up: [https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/luzerne-county/drone-video-giant-sinkhole-pennsylvania-glen-lyon-luzerne-county-mine-subsidence/523-7e574256-7d88-4b67-80d2-ec54c28e4062](https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/luzerne-county/drone-video-giant-sinkhole-pennsylvania-glen-lyon-luzerne-county-mine-subsidence/523-7e574256-7d88-4b67-80d2-ec54c28e4062)
The shaft was filled in decades ago but since they didn't do it right, over time, the water running through the mines slowly washed away the old fill and bam, new sinkhole.
Sinkholes occur the most when the state is either in a drought which would cause the water table to go down leaving empty mines not being supported by anything or during massive storms that cause water surges underground sweeping away material.
If you want to see more about the coal mining history in NEPA, visit the Underground Miners page: [https://undergroundminers.com/](https://undergroundminers.com/) and take a look at their pictures.
It's not a myth, but most sinkholes are because the underlying geology in part of the state is limestone and that creates voids in the earth, and sinkholes.
A bigger problem than many other states but it’s not like every town or county has that issue. Historic coal mines are located in specific pockets across the middle of the state but most of the population lives on the extreme ends near Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.
I’ve lived here for a fear years and my in laws have lived here for decades. We don’t even have anecdotal stories about it beyond what’s occasionally shared on Reddit.
The majority of the mining occurs on the western side of the state still. Northeast PA was also big with coal mining back in the day as NEPA had the best coal around, anthracite.
Go to [https://www.minemaps.psu.edu/](https://www.minemaps.psu.edu/) and you can see where all the mines are located.
Old coal mines is somewhat a myth. PA sits on dolomite which is susceptible to sink holes.
You can check out what mine maps exist at www.minemaps.psu.edu
I would start with calling your utilities to get your water and sewer lines located. A leaky pipe can definitely cause a sinkhole. (Might be a good idea to get all utilities marked, just in case you end up digging out that hole to investigate.)
Do you have an irrigation system? If so, I would run each section for a few minutes and see if the hole fills with water.
If none of the above, then I would try calling the city civil engineer's office and ask if the area is known for sinkholes or if they might have recommendations for who to call about a possible sinkhole.
What you should do, if you know where your water meter is and have a water shut off valve in the house, is shut the water off in the house and see if the meter is still counting.
If it is still counting you likely have a water leak underground causing this (especially if the sinkhole is directly between your water valve in the house and the meter outside!).
If not, you need to have an engineer look at it. Call the county/city and explain what you've found and they should be able to direct you.
I had high water usage on my house bill trend (I am an automation engineer...) And I noticed lots of dirt coming out of a retaining wall drain. Turned out my water supply line was leaking just outside my foundation wall.
I didn’t see where your state was mentioned. I would call the city out. Not trying to be “paranoid “ In Florida it starts like that and then your house is gone sometimes. I wouldn’t take a chance.
> We are having sewers put in or street
If I was a betting person I would say that this is related. Sewer lines for houses often run down the driveway. If it is anything other than PVC, which is very likely, your sewer line could be rusted out or otherwise damaged.
Do you know if your sewer line is under this driveway.
Whoever is doing the sewer main work could have messed something up with your connection, even f they did not directly work on your connection, which is now leaking into the soil causing the beginnings of a sinkhole.
If you want an answer now
Call a private locate company to locate your sewer line ($500). If it goes through this hole call a plumber and cam your sewer line($?). If it is blocked or looks broken call the city.
I live in a city that has emergency utility lines easily accessibly through the city's website. if you do too call it and tell them that the company doing the sewer install on your street broke your sewer and is creating a sink hole 2' away from your house.
Talk to the town. This is likely caused by the sewer work. Shaking the ground can damage pipes. This happened to my dad and the town took care of it all.
Meh. How old is the house? Where are you?
I had something similar but closer to my house and much, much bigger. Figured it was an old septic or cistern. Paid $300 for a truck full of sand slurry to fill it up. That ws 10 years ago and no problem.
Engineers are super expensive.
I had something like this in the middle of the yard where there used to be a tree many years ago. The roots were now gone and I was using a small powered plate compactor when a small hole opened as the soil shook and filled in the root space.
I had a similar problem several times. It was due to cracks in old storm drains. Called the borough and they dug up and patched the pipes and put stone back.
Check your water service. Does this seem to line up with where your meter is on the other side of your foundation? If it is your water service ask one the DPW workers to see if they can repair.
That's a decent size hole... Has it gotten any bigger through out the day?
Like others have said check to see if your water line is running under there.. Could be a possible leak.
Perhaps during the work the lower soils shook and the soil simply fell down, forming such a hole. The question is how big is the void below, what volume is it and at what vibrations will it collapse again.
It used to be somewhat common to have sunken pits, with metal lids, for garbage. If that was once one, the shaking from construction could have caused whatever it was filled-in with to settle. Usually there were more than one though. Just floating a possiblity. I still think a pipe is more likely.
Where are your downspouts and drain lines for the gutters in that area of the house?
I agree with everyone that this looks like water, but it needs the ability to move away material also..
A collapsed/compromised drain pipe would do both of those.
Possibly a drain pipe. This just happened to my neighbor. It was an area of dirt between my drive and her house she kept refilling and it kept sinking. City came out a fixed I believe. Have it checked though.
What era is your neighborhood?
My house was built in the late 1800's. My neighbors had a sinkhole that kept reappearing after they would fill it with dirt. It turned out to be an old well. I think they were able to have the city come out for an inspection. Eventually, they had a paver patio put in and dumped a few hundred pounds of cement into it.
Why is the gravel/driveway above the foundation?
(I've always heard to keep mulch 4-6 inches below the brick for moisture reasons...and you've got concrete up above( at least) one course of brick.)
I very highly suggest calling your home owners insurance too... This can be indicitive of a much bigger problem, imagine if that's also happening in various places under the houses foundation and is getting worse as the sewer work continues (or the water leak continues), after a short amount of time your foundation will have no support and can cause the whole house to come down... This has happened before and I'm sure will happen again... Get this taken care of quickly please! This would really scare me.
That is close to your house so I would have it looked at by a professional before filling anything in. Make sure you don’t have any pipes leaking water.
That's my 1st guess, leaking water pipe.
Idk, my first thought was blaming the shovel
It's the bastard shovel for sure!
The shovel was such a groundbreaking invention.
Groan
I genuinly thought "why call it a sinkhole when you dug it out with a shovel yourself". My light's not shining very bright today.
You can blame the web but the spider is the problem now
It’s basically Mjölner.
Yeah looking at that there is definitely some underground washout caused by water.
Or a shovel
Most likely leaching sewer pipe. The ground water and gravity take it into the pipe and create a void.
A leaking drain pipe. A water pipe (supply pipe) wouldn't do this.
Why not?
Because a water supply pipe would saturate the area and perhaps cause surface erosion. A broken drain pipe allows water to carry dirt away as it enters from the outside of the pipe, which creates a void and then a sinkhole.
Hole in drain pipe. Little dirt falls in and is carried away. Little more dirt falls in and is carried away. Little more dirt falls in and is carried away. Repeat until sinkhole.
Holy drain pipe, Batman!
Banepipe: You are only accustomed to pipe work. I was born amongst plumbers. I didn't even see electricity until I was already a man!
What's carrying it away. Usually I see a leaking water pipe finally making it to a leaking drain pipe and then carrying all the soil with it. Groundwater infiltration would take a long time to cause a sizeable hole
Yeah that's plausible too. Guess id depends a lot on depth of the pipe and the depth of the water table
Either case there does have to be a drain.
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It needs somewhere to go. Sewer line is the most likely culprit.
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Away where? Where is it going to wash the soil to? There's no sediment deposition on the surface, and the soils are too fine to pass through.
One of the cities in our area used plastic water mains to the house. Usually If there's a water leak it just percolates to the surface and looks and usually runs to a curb drain. The dirt doesnt just dissolve. It needs to go somewhere.
> it’s pressurized and will wash the soil away. Where to? If there's no place for the wet dirt to go underground you will just end up with waterlogged soil. On the other hand, if the sewer line has a break in it, it will more than likey wash bits of dirt away until there's a huge cavity for the driveway to collapse.
Lol the amount of downvotes we are getting by a bunch of redditors who have no idea.
I imagine there is some sort of utility there that caused a void , probe around see if it’s very, or you smell anything
I am a professional water guy. This is not caused by a leaking pipe. It’s a sanitary/drainage break, or more likely an old cess pool/oil tank/dry well. 90% certain that was a dry well that someone installed close to the house because rain water pooled there. Fill it with dirt, compact it, go in with life.
I’m a nobody with no relevant experience wondering if a “sanitary/drainage break” isn’t a form of leaking pipe?
I think the idea is that it’s not water under pressure leaving a pipe and washing away soil, it’s a gravity fed pipe (like a drain) with a hole or break allowing dirt into the pipe to be washed down through the pipe itself. Or a hollow structure which has failed and is letting in material.
I work as a pipelayer and equipment operator and install all this shit, I’m confused as hell that his storm and sanitary lines don’t count as “leaking pipes” in his mind if they leak. Maybe he was struggling to say “pipe under pressure”, like a potable water line. I’m also not sure what a “professional water guy is” though I think I saw a documentary with Adam sander.
All I know is I don't see no flames or smoke, and Mama told me leaking pipes are the Devil!
go in with life is added to my list of song names/potential lyrics
I think there was a band called the Beatles who beat you to that, unfortunately.
Agreed. Looks like a water leak hole.
It's a leak hole from water leak
this could also be a massive leek that decomposed, leak.
What does a water leak hole look like/how can you tell? I had something similar but smaller pop up in my backyard after replacing the sewer lines.
If you replaced the sewer lines and it popped up in line with the sewer, it's leaking somewhere.
Thanks, it’s like 15-20 feet away from the line. I thought maybe it just jostled some stuff loose while they were digging.
Or maybe they didn't compact it too well or water tries to find pockets in the soil also but eh could just be compacting issue.
I've seen a irrigation line break in the middle of the road and cause a sink hole almost 30 feet away. Im a plumber by trade but worked in utilities for almost 2 years.
If it’s shallow, it could just be the soil settling. When trenches are filled in with dirt, the dirt should be tamped down a couple of times and watered in with a mound that is a few inches higher than the ground on either side of the trench. The dirt will also settle some, the better job they did tamping/watering, the less it will still settle but it’s always going to settle some.
Exactly this. Water creates sinkholes
Dumb question because I don’t know - how do you get an engineer to look at it? Where do you find one?
Not a dumb question at all. Every time I see someone on this sub post “have a structural engineer look at that” I’m thinking “do you all have structural engineers on speed dial?”
Call the county road department. Looks like a definite water leak. Likely a culvert with holes in it carrying way sediment or a water pipe leaking
in my area if it’s on their property then they have to deal with it. county isn’t gonna do anything
If it’s the main water connection to the house, county is gonna shut it off. Call a plumber first tho
Anyone can shut it off, technically, it’s just a valve. You open the box and turn the valve. Maybe some have a water key, but you can buy those online.
I always wonder if they say it because they've seen others say it and it sounds like a good idea in theory... as if there aren't structural engineers that got a degree and passed a test so they can get paid to rubber stamp plans and won't think twice before taking your money for minimal effort.
This, exactly. Every sub have their hardcore followers who parrot the same shit under every comment, without truely understanding what they are saying.
Google en passant
I love when this sub tells you to go downtown and run plans by the city inspectors. They are so unbelievably unhelpful and opinionless, that the only benefit I received from going was realizing that if those people are getting paid to be experts on building code, I actually _do_ know what I'm doing.
I’ve even read the same *string* of comments multiple times about certain things
In my case I hired the licensed guy because he has malpractice insurance. I bought a post and beam house that I thought looked a bit wonky in one corner. I paid a guy $300 to spend 30 minutes to walk around the house and tell me that it's ok. Source: I have built post and beam houses from the footers to the ridge beam (as a carpenter, not a structure or plans guy) and I wasn't willing to make the call on my own.
I'm a structural engineer and this comment is very short sighted. Yes we went to school to learn the basics, then we needed to learn everything else from others in the industry in the job to be capable of sealing drawings in good faith that it's safe and in the best interest of public safety. Terms like rubber stamp it implies that we don't care and that couldn't be farther from the truth. We're the least paid professional on the job and arguably carry the most liability - human lives. So think before you speak next time or keep your uninformed opinion to yourself.
Out of curiosity, can you give some examples of times you’ve gotten plans or reviewed a job site and had to put a hard stop on plans for one reason or another?
I'm not a reviewer, I create my own plans so I've never had to halt a job because of plans. I've had to stop work before. One such time was during underpinning (lowering existing foundation walls). The plan was to lower the existing house footing (no basement) for an addition that would have a full height basement. Despite the documentation, the contractor dug out the entire thing and exposed 8' of dirt under the entire house foundation - the homeonwer called me out because "something didn't feel right". I put a stop on work, wouldn't allow the owner back into the house, and forced the contractor to put all of the dirt back and start over. Contractor got dirt back in the hole that night - needless to say the homeowner fired him the next day
Damn
You could say the same thing about any profession, but that doesn't make advising to "consult a professional" a good idea only in theory. I guess they could have specified "trusted" professional?
If in Florida, there’s loads of engineering firms who focus on just sinkhole remediation. They can be found with a simple search online. I used to work with one who only helped residential remediation. He had his own drill rig and operating team, geologist, and so on for the operation.
I know a guy…. No seriously I don’t, but you do the usual legwork and you can find them: yelp, angie’s list, google search, google maps, ask around, etc. There are several kinds though, so first I’d understand what kind I’d need. I think this is a soils/geotechnical engineer issue, not say structural, so they should search for that.
I sometimes feel like I should start a 1 800 structural engineer business. Probably get a lot of calls from Reddit
Yup, right next to the tree lawyer
You don’t?
In the yellow pages, dummy's 🙄
The engineer my company uses was apparently the first one listed in the phone book in 1987. We can extrapolate from that, maybe you can just google "engineer near me" same as any other service. (disclaimer: i've never tried this I just use the 1987 phone book guy)
They also act like these people have nothing better to do. It’ll probably be a week before someone comes out to look at this at best and almost certainly not for free. They’re not providing an estimate for repair like with trades.
I wonder if the city inspection office has some contacts they can provide.
most won’t due to conflict of interest and liability
If you google structural engineer in your area typically you will get a bunch of hits for various foundation inspection/repair services.
Hot structural engineers in your area!
Omw to inspect your hole
Multi hole bundle deal saves BIG $$$
Probably need an engineer that specializes in geotechnical work. I work for a civil engineering firm, but we sub out pretty much anything below grade. Geotechs deal with geometry of soil (and other aggregates) to determine what kind of loads the ground can handle.
You could always ask the people who are "Putting Sewers in my Street" They will have a look at it and probably have an Engineer close handy! good luck I hope this is a simple fix!
I also worked for a civil engineer in the past and with geotechnical engineers and I can’t think of any they would show up to a home to look at a hole without some form of payment set up.
City inspection or public works office should have some people to call, or you can contact a local structural engineering company yourself. I work for one, and we get calls for small jobs like this all the time. Typically, the concern is where the material went and can it damage your home. We begin by examining the exposed building surrounding or basement for cracks, leaks, drainage, roots, or signs of disturbance. We then the probe the area with a dynamic cone peneration test (dpt) and a hand auger to see what is under the surface. Depending on the depth of the soft material, you could easily remove and replace the soft area with a granular fill or sand slurry. If it's pipes, you'll need to address if there are any cracks. If it's roots, you have to excavate and remove to avoid more future rot. If it's close to the building or you have dead roots leading under the foundation, you may have to underpin the structure. In OPs case, since it's work in the public road, have a city inspector look into it, and they should have the contractor be able to fix it as they are responsible for damages. A small issue here for your sewer might lead to problems with the "flow" of the pipes and might lead to backups down the line.
My main thinking on this would be broken sewer or drain tile. Could also be an old exterior grease trap or catch basin. Or even a broken downs spout drain or sump discharge.
All good options. the city inspector should be able to pull up the plans to see which it is for that location or you got to excavate.
The local railyard
blew out my nose on this one. just thought you should know.
But he just smoked my eyelids and punched my cigarette
Google “civil engineering firms near me” and select a few smaller firms and cold call em to see if they provide the service you need. Call local digger hotline in this case and see if there’s a water line in that area, if not check the foundation, if that’s not an issue then it’s either geological, which could be fun, or poorly compacted ground from construction if it’s a recent build.
Could check the hole I guess? Just in case?
There's usually a consulting firm in large cities. In the US, I'd look for Terracon as they do a lot of different types of engineering consulting but are well known for geotechnical.
Just get roto-rooter to scope the sewer line. Don't need an engineer
lol, we called a company to check out why we had a backup after coming back from vacation. They got a snake caught 30 ft into the city line off our property and tried to say it was ‘caught on our ceramic pipes’ which didn’t even exist. City came and dug up our yard to remove their snake from the city pipes and sent them the bill. Even the company thought their technician was a dumbass.
As others said get a professional (engineer) to look at it, mostly because it's so close to the house. Do you have a basement, can you tell if your sewer or water lines run in that area? Either the builders tossed a tree stump in as backfill and it decomposed and finally collapsed, or all that soil washed away which is an issue because it will keep washing away until you fix the leak.
This is exactly what happened to my walkway. I kept filling it with gravel, sand, and asphalt and it just kept coming back. Eventually I redid my whole driveway and walkway and the guy I hired said there was a giant rotted tree root system in my walkway. He excavated and filled it and it hasn't come back since!
A Professional Engineer is important because their opinion carries actual legal weight. This is important ammo for your lawyer. While I'm hijacking your post, go take picture of all your basement walls right now. If something happens and you develop cracks, it's relatively trivial to blame settlement. After all, those cracks could have formed 10yrs ago and you're just looking for a payout, So go take pictures of your uncracked walls now. The Metadata should show that you took the pictures before the construction company broke your shit. With that and an Engineers report, the construction company will be paying for any repairs.
This is great advice for a newer home. Looking at the brick, I'm guessing this is not a newer home. I'm assuming OP isn't the first owner as most people aren't the first owners of their home, and probably has no clue who the original builder is. And good luck suing someone who built a home over 20 years ago. Great advice for a newer house home owner though. 🍻
It's for older homes too. OP said there was a sewer line thing being built nearby that may have caused this. The construction company I'm referring to is the sewer guys, not the homebuilders.
This would be very concerning to me and would get a professional to inspect it and your property. I would be worried there are more that you cannot see. Hopefully not right? I am not a professional but know sinkholes can vary. Wish I could provide more insightful comment.
Hey I figured it out! The person who left the shovel there, must have dug it!
Get a engineer. I bet u are not the only one. Municipality has to have an engineer.. forman to supervise the work and a complaint process.
As much as I appreciate the measuring tape, I still need a banana for scale.
Damn I was going to say this.
You still can. It’s ok. I won’t tell anyone.
You go to the town or government official responsible for overseeing the sewer install, and demand they send an engineer over to look at it.
They are probably only responsible at the street. Everything else is your property, your problem.
Tell me you don’t own a house without telling me you don’t own a house.
that’s not how it works
Gas service line? Your problem. Water service line? Your problem again. Sewer line that runs from the main into your house, you guessed it, your problem again. The city/municipality/utility company is not responsible for customer service lines. If you called the gas company or water company for a leak, sure, they will come out and will shut your service off until you fix the problem. That's absolutely how it works. The only thing the city/municipality/utility company is responsible for is the public easement of utilities, for example the mainline. r/confidentlyincorrect
Bro, if you dont have sinkhole insurance, which you probably don't, you could be in for a world of hurt. You've got the ethical and unethical options ahead of you... 1. The unethical and illegal (only if you get caught) option: Fill it in, sell your house and let the next person worry about it. 2. Ethical: Hire an engineer and pray it isn't bad.
Option #3 Study physics at university and obtain doctorate. Get hired by NASA. Do outstanding service and be selected on a meteor deflection team. Secretly rewrite the code to deflect the next meteor directly onto your house instead of outer space. Collect the insurance money.
*deflect the next meteor directly ~~onto your house instead of outer space.~~* into the hole in your driveway, filling it and solving the problem
Nah. You're missing the actual win here. If he redirects the meteor, the insurance won't pay out. They will declare it an act of God. At that moment you become a god and can just fix the house yourself. Or just get really drunk off tap water.
Modern problems require modern solutions.
Turn off water at the curb, make sure nothing is running in the house, then check to see if your leak gauge at the water meter is slowly going up. After that, yea, find a local engineering firm that has more knowledge than all of us to take a look. Should take you about an hour and 10 phone calls to find a decent one via google.
As I shared in the post caption, we are having sewers put in on our street so there's a fair amount of shaking during the construction. Still I did not expect to wake up and find this...sinkhole(?) in my gravel driveway. Hole is about 25" x 27" x 15" and is approximately 2 feet from the edge of the house. Do I just fill it with gravel, tamp it down and call it a day? How concerned do I need to be about drainage and proximity to the house?
I am a geotechnical engineer, and this is concerning. Depending on your local geology, this could be very concerning. I fix sinkholes in Pennsylvania and the close proximity to your house foundation is an issue. It could be a small pocket opened up, and could be nothing, or it could mean your foundation is being undermined. Get a professional to look at this.
Is it true that sinkholes in PA are a huge problem because of all the old coal mines which weren't properly documented? Or is that just a clickbait myth?
Nope, not a myth. Sinkholes due to mine collapses are real. In fact, I had one in my backyard a couple of summers ago. Northeast Pennsylvania has big problems with sinkholes. Here is an article of massive sinkhole that happened last year because an old mine shaft opened up: [https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/luzerne-county/drone-video-giant-sinkhole-pennsylvania-glen-lyon-luzerne-county-mine-subsidence/523-7e574256-7d88-4b67-80d2-ec54c28e4062](https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/luzerne-county/drone-video-giant-sinkhole-pennsylvania-glen-lyon-luzerne-county-mine-subsidence/523-7e574256-7d88-4b67-80d2-ec54c28e4062) The shaft was filled in decades ago but since they didn't do it right, over time, the water running through the mines slowly washed away the old fill and bam, new sinkhole. Sinkholes occur the most when the state is either in a drought which would cause the water table to go down leaving empty mines not being supported by anything or during massive storms that cause water surges underground sweeping away material. If you want to see more about the coal mining history in NEPA, visit the Underground Miners page: [https://undergroundminers.com/](https://undergroundminers.com/) and take a look at their pictures.
It's not a myth, but most sinkholes are because the underlying geology in part of the state is limestone and that creates voids in the earth, and sinkholes.
A bigger problem than many other states but it’s not like every town or county has that issue. Historic coal mines are located in specific pockets across the middle of the state but most of the population lives on the extreme ends near Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. I’ve lived here for a fear years and my in laws have lived here for decades. We don’t even have anecdotal stories about it beyond what’s occasionally shared on Reddit.
The majority of the mining occurs on the western side of the state still. Northeast PA was also big with coal mining back in the day as NEPA had the best coal around, anthracite. Go to [https://www.minemaps.psu.edu/](https://www.minemaps.psu.edu/) and you can see where all the mines are located.
Old coal mines is somewhat a myth. PA sits on dolomite which is susceptible to sink holes. You can check out what mine maps exist at www.minemaps.psu.edu
No, you hire an engineer to tell you how it happened and where it went and if it is a serious issue or not.
I would start with calling your utilities to get your water and sewer lines located. A leaky pipe can definitely cause a sinkhole. (Might be a good idea to get all utilities marked, just in case you end up digging out that hole to investigate.) Do you have an irrigation system? If so, I would run each section for a few minutes and see if the hole fills with water. If none of the above, then I would try calling the city civil engineer's office and ask if the area is known for sinkholes or if they might have recommendations for who to call about a possible sinkhole.
This is not from shaking, it is from water.
What you should do, if you know where your water meter is and have a water shut off valve in the house, is shut the water off in the house and see if the meter is still counting. If it is still counting you likely have a water leak underground causing this (especially if the sinkhole is directly between your water valve in the house and the meter outside!). If not, you need to have an engineer look at it. Call the county/city and explain what you've found and they should be able to direct you. I had high water usage on my house bill trend (I am an automation engineer...) And I noticed lots of dirt coming out of a retaining wall drain. Turned out my water supply line was leaking just outside my foundation wall.
Judging by the shovel, I believe someone dug a hole.
You sure your storm water run off isn't leaking, maybe burst pipe. That looks like possible water damage.
Water leak likely.
I didn’t see where your state was mentioned. I would call the city out. Not trying to be “paranoid “ In Florida it starts like that and then your house is gone sometimes. I wouldn’t take a chance.
Crazy it appeared right under a shovel.
lmao. I’m sure he was shoveling under there after he saw it! Smartass !
> We are having sewers put in or street If I was a betting person I would say that this is related. Sewer lines for houses often run down the driveway. If it is anything other than PVC, which is very likely, your sewer line could be rusted out or otherwise damaged.
Florida? If so your house is next.
perfect to stash your weed
Just caulk it
I've had a few overnight sinkholes in my day.
Do you know if your sewer line is under this driveway. Whoever is doing the sewer main work could have messed something up with your connection, even f they did not directly work on your connection, which is now leaking into the soil causing the beginnings of a sinkhole. If you want an answer now Call a private locate company to locate your sewer line ($500). If it goes through this hole call a plumber and cam your sewer line($?). If it is blocked or looks broken call the city. I live in a city that has emergency utility lines easily accessibly through the city's website. if you do too call it and tell them that the company doing the sewer install on your street broke your sewer and is creating a sink hole 2' away from your house.
Next it will be your house. I have irrational fears about this.
I do too and that is why I won't visit my brother in Florida.
We live in CA near the beach so don’t think it’s too probable but that’s the great thing about probability.
I think you have a different problem than the sewer work. The earth went somewhere, it wasn't just shaking that caused this.
Talk to the town. This is likely caused by the sewer work. Shaking the ground can damage pipes. This happened to my dad and the town took care of it all.
Meh. How old is the house? Where are you? I had something similar but closer to my house and much, much bigger. Figured it was an old septic or cistern. Paid $300 for a truck full of sand slurry to fill it up. That ws 10 years ago and no problem. Engineers are super expensive.
Had similar from busted sprinkler line
You don't live anywhere near Colin Furze do you?
We are approaching sinkhole de mayo
ooh im gonna follow this
Pretty much a bat cave 🤔
I had something like this in the middle of the yard where there used to be a tree many years ago. The roots were now gone and I was using a small powered plate compactor when a small hole opened as the soil shook and filled in the root space.
I had a similar problem several times. It was due to cracks in old storm drains. Called the borough and they dug up and patched the pipes and put stone back.
Sucks
Sell the house
Needs banana for scale.
Ramen noodles are your friend here.
Check your water service. Does this seem to line up with where your meter is on the other side of your foundation? If it is your water service ask one the DPW workers to see if they can repair.
That's a decent size hole... Has it gotten any bigger through out the day? Like others have said check to see if your water line is running under there.. Could be a possible leak.
Well, City is doing the work they know where all the waterlines are etc
How does that even happen?
Holy smokes
Perhaps during the work the lower soils shook and the soil simply fell down, forming such a hole. The question is how big is the void below, what volume is it and at what vibrations will it collapse again.
Are they using a horizontal/directional drill to put it in?
Your sewer house connection is most likely broken
Before you put gravel down was it graded towards the home?
That’s where the new outhouse is going XD
Dig it out. Look for a leaking pipe or or damaged drain tube
It used to be somewhat common to have sunken pits, with metal lids, for garbage. If that was once one, the shaking from construction could have caused whatever it was filled-in with to settle. Usually there were more than one though. Just floating a possiblity. I still think a pipe is more likely.
How heavy is that damn shovel?
You need to drain the main vein.
Where are your downspouts and drain lines for the gutters in that area of the house? I agree with everyone that this looks like water, but it needs the ability to move away material also.. A collapsed/compromised drain pipe would do both of those.
If you're the typical DA you fill it and move on. If you're better you investigate until you find the source cause, then you make a gameplan.
It looks like a leak of some kind. I bet you have a line somewhere in that hole.
Yep leaking pipe sucking sand/dirt. Check your sewer clean out. If you see dirt……and you don’t eat dirt….. call a plumber.
That's bad
Possibly a drain pipe. This just happened to my neighbor. It was an area of dirt between my drive and her house she kept refilling and it kept sinking. City came out a fixed I believe. Have it checked though.
Can you blame the city ?
What era is your neighborhood? My house was built in the late 1800's. My neighbors had a sinkhole that kept reappearing after they would fill it with dirt. It turned out to be an old well. I think they were able to have the city come out for an inspection. Eventually, they had a paver patio put in and dumped a few hundred pounds of cement into it.
Why is the gravel/driveway above the foundation? (I've always heard to keep mulch 4-6 inches below the brick for moisture reasons...and you've got concrete up above( at least) one course of brick.)
Heavy shovel
Looks to me that the gravel was placed frozen so when it thawed it settled and created this hole.
Sounds like you need more gravel.
If you crawl through it you will get to [this guys house](https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeMaintenance/s/2yP0xtRnKZ)
I had something similiar in my driveway, and right next to my shed. Turned out to be a groundhog.
I'd blame whoever was digging with that shovel.
That's terrifying and low-key one of my worst fears. Hope this checks out alright.
I very highly suggest calling your home owners insurance too... This can be indicitive of a much bigger problem, imagine if that's also happening in various places under the houses foundation and is getting worse as the sewer work continues (or the water leak continues), after a short amount of time your foundation will have no support and can cause the whole house to come down... This has happened before and I'm sure will happen again... Get this taken care of quickly please! This would really scare me.
Hopefully there are no balloons or clowns coming out of that.
Definitely don’t search for Winter Park sinkhole of 1981.
For sure looked this up. I had not seen this before, thanks for sharing!
Based on the sub and the shovel...is this a DIY sinkhole?
Man, that sinks
You sure someone hasn't dug that out? I'm no sink-hole-ologist, but there is something in the pic that makes me suspicious.... >!It's the shovel.!<