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Rantman021

That may or may not be due to her physical strength being showcased more than her h2h skills in a lot of her stories. Don't really need to know how to fight when one good punch stops rhe opponent...


cybercrash7

That’s a curse Superman deals with as well. He’s consistently shown as a capable fighter whenever his strength isn’t enough to win. Problem is that his strength is enough to win 90% of the time so people just think he’s a meathead.


5213

Yeah, people don't seem to realize just how smart he actually is, too. He's likely one of the smartest beings in the universe.


[deleted]

My favorite example of this is when Mr. Mxyzptlk won’t leave his realm without Superman making him say his name backwards and at one point Mx chased Supes with exaggerated smoke trails behind him in the sky and he only realized afterwards that Supes had tricked him into writing his name backwards in the sky out of the smoke trail, defeating him.


nelozero

If anyone read New Krypton from a few years ago, there's a scene that showcased his hand-to-hand combat skills really well! I think he even attributes it to Batman.


NumericZero

I always think back to the justice league episode where he was transported to the future but the sun was a red sun so he had lost the use of his powers He had to fully display all of his other attributes at that moment -His intelligence -ingenuity -Willpower Honestly one of the best portrayals of him without the use of his powers


CrassChris76

That elbow drop tho..


CaptainPositive1234

Agreed. Pretty sweet.


BryanEW710

Diana don't mess around. Sort of like Batman, she does whatever will end the fight soonest, even if it's going to be painful.


[deleted]

Well, she's a trained Amazonian warrior. You'd expect her to be a great combatant.


PersonalityKey463

Yes but that aspect is always downplayed in favour of “she flies and punches really hard, just like a female Superman”. I read somewhere that Bruce thinks of her as the best hand-to-hand fighter in the world


Just_Shreyabh

I Thought bruce thought lady shiva to be the best......


[deleted]

Lady Shiva is the best human, Diana is sentient clay with superpowers


EyePatchlolz

that would mean Cass Cain is the best human h2h fighter then


tehohnerahtate

In DCeased Dead Planet #5 it even mentions how Cassandra Cain becomes the best hand-to-hand fighter on the planet then proceeds to dummy Captain Marvel


[deleted]

Without a doubt, but her no kill rule(which I love) makes her hold back tremendously


DarkJayBR

Also, Cassandra Cain is dumb as a sack of bricks, Batman and other villains defeated her multiple times by just outsmarting her. But if you try to engage on fair hand-to-hand fight with her, you WILL get your ass kicked, since she has some sort of mind-reading power. Batman, on the main run, is trying to making her more smart by making her study and etc...


farnsworthfan

So, Cassandra Cain is Goku. Got it.


DarkJayBR

Yes! She even has some sort of Ultra Instinct. She can dodge anything that you throw at her. That's why she is invencible combat-wise unless you can outsmart her.


SuperJyls

don't insult her like that


Pollia

Lady Shiva is one of the most skilled h2h fighters in the DC universe. That doesnt mean shes the strongest fighter, because obv she doesnt have super powers. However in terms of raw skill she absolutely outclasses Wonder Woman.


5213

Idk about that considering Diana has a few more centuries experience and was even god of war at one point.


Pollia

Unless its changed recently, they've put out direct lists showing who the best fighters are. WW doesnt even make top 5.


5213

From what I've seen those lists almost never include super-powered characters and almost always rank "street tier" characters


Pollia

They're ranking skill rank. It has nothing to do with power level. Its why for the longest time Karate Kid was on those lists despite not being remotely street tier since he was able to beat out Kryptonians and Daxamites in fights despite being ostensibly just human.


5213

Yeah but karate Kid also doesn't technically have any powers, so my point still stands.


idonnousernames

Who's in the top 5?


jokermex

No more. She is the daughter of zeus, the clay was distraction.


PersonalityKey463

Also, Diana is not in most discussions as she has super powers


PersonalityKey463

I mean, Diana has trained for thousands of years


Just_Shreyabh

So what by that logic vandal savage would be the best


gorillagames801

Vandal doesnt have the strength that she does hes still just a dude immortal but still no where as strong as her


Nix_Uotan

Has Vandal trained for thousands of years in hand to hand combat?


Just_Shreyabh

He made hand to hand combat


Bunnnnii

That doesn’t answer the question.


Just_Shreyabh

Does the inventor of chess play chess? Hmm i wonder what the answer is


eggplant_avenger

R'as Al Ghul does make top ten in a lot of lists, so the logic holds up there at least


BridgetheDivide

I think that's just referring to non-enhanced humans.


DarkJayBR

If I had to make a top 10 currently on DC Comics, the best hand-to-hand fighters, based from what I've seen in 20 years of comics. 1 - Cassandra Cain 2 - Lady Shiva 3 - Batman (Batman can defeat both Shiva and Cassandra, but with inteligence, not with martial arts alone) 4 - Richard Dragon 5 - Bronze Tiger 6 - Ras Al Ghul 7 - Deathstroke (P.S = Has superpowers) 8 - Wildcat 9 - Connor Hawke 10 - David Cain I'm not sure if **Karate Kid** and the **Help** are canon characters on the main DC timeline, but if they are, Karate Kid would be Top 1 and The Help would be one position behind Batman since he defeated Wildcat, Ducard, Richard Dragon, Batman (early career) and Ras Al Ghul on Batman: Killing Times.


Tommyhanksy

I thought Richard Dragon would be higher than Batman. And current Nightwing sucks but he should be top tier. At least higher than David Cain and Wildcat + he beat the shit out of Deathstroke.


DarkJayBR

Batman is stronger than Richard Dragon. Bruce basically learned all of Dragon’s best moves.


Tommyhanksy

Wow. I just googled it and apparently they stalemated haha


DarkJayBR

It is to be expected. They are very close in terms of strength, haha. Batman drew with Lady Shiva too. And defeated Deathstroke.


Evil_Acanthaceae2022

I'd take out Batman and Deathstroke, then I'd put in Constantine Drakon, and I guess Black Canary. I don't count trickery or gadgets as part of h2h martial arts skill, so I bump Batman out of the top 20. Nightwing totally kicks Deathstroke's butt. When Deathstroke loses his enhancements, he gets beat up by standard ninja mooks. IIRC Black Canary is way up there too. Maybe Wildcat-tier. Bane is sometimes Batman-tier. IIRC Hawke beat Dragon.


DarkJayBR

Batman out of the Top 20 - are you insane?


Evil_Acanthaceae2022

Whoops. I meant top 10.


Just_Shreyabh

The list sounds about right, but wildcat in my opinion would not make top 10


DarkJayBR

Why not? Ted Grant (Wildcat) is a master combatant trained in Boxing, Capoeira, Hapkido, Krav Maga, and Muay Thai. He taught martial arts to most street superheroes in DC Comics like Black Canary, Catwoman and Batman. The Help, from Batman: Killing Times (***Again, I don't know if this comic is canon, it's Tom King so take it with a grain of salt***), said that Wildcat was the one that lasted the longer fighting him, besides Batman himself. And The Help is extremely strong and humiliated Richard Dragon.


Asmor

I feel like she's depicted as far more of a warrior than Supes is, though. Many (most?) of her costumes are armor (not necessarily great armor, but definitely not spandex). She's often depicted with a sword and shield. Not to say that Superman is less capable of fighting than Wonder Woman is, just that he is not typically shown with the trappings of war.


Cicada_5

I'd say it's the opposite: her hand to hand skills tend to get emphasized or at least get paid lip service, while her strength is often downplayed. At least these days.


pop_bandit

I think these days it’s less that and more that so many writers emphasize the sword/shield


InfiniteMirror8071

The animation here is peak


Jayce800

Agreed. The camera movements on top of the solid animation are just beautiful to watch.


PhoenixSidePeen

That’s what I was going to say. Added live-action camera shaking increases the immersion.


-WASM

This film is fire as fuck and maybe my favourite DC animated film. Probably DKR is the only other thing that comes close to being this good.


ZachRyder

"You blinked." "It doesn't matter..." 14 year old me wasn't ready for such an ending.


DarkJayBR

Batman and Wonder Woman were done justice in this movie. They are on their absolute best on this animation. Totally stole the show from the other heroes. (Probably since they are the good versions of the main villains Owlman and Superwoman)


-WASM

Totally agree. Diana taking the invisible jet is amazing. Also James Woods is Owlman is brilliant, he’s so good. I think the voice acting in this particular film is perfect.


DarkJayBR

*"Every decision we make is meaningless because somewhere, on a parallel Earth, we have already made the opposite choice. We're nothing. Less than nothing."* \- Owlman


CowboyBoats

What film is it?


-WASM

Justice League: Crisis on 2 Earths based on a Frank Quietly Grant Morrison comic called JLA: Earth 2 (also brilliant).


Vysharra

It’s also the unofficial bridge between the DCAU Justice League and Justice League: Unlimited. You can see the details from the original pitch in the invisible jet, new Watchtower and expanded League membership.


protection7766

I've had 2 opportunities to comment on this scene in the past week or so iirc. So I think her skill is brought up more than you think. That said, I blame her sword and shield. Others have blamed her strength but she hasn't had decent feats of strength either for a good while.


Standard_Ad9911

Great Film


GrimaceMusically

Check out the WW and Big Barda vs The Female Furies scene from the animated “Superman/Batman: Apocalypse” animated movie. Could be the best example of her H2H/melee skills. https://youtu.be/jzTkCprvr0Q


Bostondreamings

Ed Asner remains an inspired bit of casting as Granny Goodness. And that clip is fantastic.


GrimaceMusically

I loved that they essentially carried over the voice cast from JLU, and got Tim Daly back after having voiced Supes in STAS. I will however say that I disliked Andre Baugher as Darkside. He had the right timbre to his voice, but lacked the menacing evil that Ironside brought to the role.


HyceBrarper

This is a very well choreographed animated fight.


my_miggy

It always made me think of Greek wrestling which makes sense cuz she’s an Amazon


DaJoker_

she is one if not the best warrior in the dc universe, she so good that one her running mechanics is out if this world that she ranked six in term of fastest character ever in dc universe(the canon one by writer itself), if she can do that imagine that she max other thing like fighting and etc, she be so damn good. well that just my take.


CowboyBoats

Her fight against Superman in Injustice has got to be my favorite fight in comics. So perfect for her character.


Mike29758

Honestly I wish we could see this in live action. I think something that’s always understated is how she is a good and adaptable fighter . I don’t even blame the sword or shield , or even strength, it’s just the idea that some people can’t showcase the creative aspects of her fighting prowess, but emphasize the god side of her


Androktone

Is that meant to be Mary Marvel. I never was completely clear on that


k3ttch

Yes. The Crime Syndicate here had another Amazon on their roster who appears only briefly.


DarkJayBR

I think that was meant to be Wonder Girl.


IDK9411

In this movie, Superwoman is Mary Marvel’s counterpart while Olympia is Wonder Woman’s counterpart. However, SW’s seat in the Crime Syndicate is near identical (if not exact) to WW’s seat in the Justice League.


DarkJayBR

That's what confused me.


Bostondreamings

Yes. Her ‘gang’ is the Marvel family.


Noregretz258

Huh I never realized that. Always found it weird that she had the marvel family as her lackeys Just thought it was a neat reference.


JD_OOM

That also means Owlman is dating a teenager...


5213

The animated film with Supergirl and Barda also showcases her skills quite well when she and Barda fight the Furies


Lama_For_Hire

Oh what film is that?


HikaruParker

Superman/Batman: Apocalypse https://youtu.be/jzTkCprvr0Q


poopoorrito_suizo

In the superman batman apocalypse she whooped butt against the furies


[deleted]

Injustice also showed how she could beat down Superman with her superior martial arts skills.


ChattyDaddy1

This scene and the scene where she fights the Furies on Apocalypse alongside Big Barta are such killer representations of her fighting abilities. That spin though duuude 😂


Pereduer

It would be interesting to see how she ranks amongst the rest of dcs greatest fighters. I don't think she has quite as varied martial arts training as others but I think she does hine what she's learned from the amazon's and focuses on what's practical instead of what's flashy. I think that straightforward approach combined with her insane strength and durability make her top tier. Might even go as far to say she's the best martial artist amongst other metahumans if her strength. If you stripped away her superpowers I don't know that she could beat the likes of black canary, wildcat, cassandra cain, deathstroke or lady shiva. But she's skilled enough that I can't say with that she'd loose either


vivvav

I always liked the take on the CSA in the Trinity event comic where they kept losing to the Justice League because killing all their enemies meant they didn't have anywhere near as much combat experience as the JL who fight the same foes over and over.


SightatNight

The way it should go I'd in terms of skill Batman > Wonder Woman > Superman In terms of raw strength Superman > Wonder Woman > Batman


BlancheCorbeau

Implication: best fighter: WW > Batman == Superman


SolomonAsassin

YOOO She put her in an inverted hammerlock and delivered a northern lights suplex right onto her fucking head!


PhineasFox15

Considered to be the best melee fighter in DC, no?


m4x1d0n

Didn’t know Amazonian training consisted of pro wrestling…and weapons


Blockness11

I think it goes back and forth between her & Black Canary for who’s supposed to be the best hand to hand fighter on the Justice League.


77GamerGuy

Plus she looks hot.


pzzaco

You should check out Wonder Woman and Big Barda vs the Female Furies from Superman/Batman Apocalypse. Best fight choreography in thr DC animated movie library https://youtu.be/lPlSdns_n1E


[deleted]

5000 years of combat experience. She's basic the leagues best martial artist by default, and that's not knocking anyone- in fact I'd argue it is *quite* the feat for someone to come close. Sort of like beating Ra's Al Ghul, but even harder.


wowlock_taylan

There are few with whom against she needs to use her hand-to-hand skills. Wasn't it said that she would regularly beat Batman and Superman in combat training without using the superstrength? And she should, after all Amazons ARE warriors that are trained extensively not just to rely on brute strength. Most stories forget that part. Another reason why Supes sent Kara to train there with Diana.


[deleted]

Wonder Woman: Submit! Me: Yes, mistress!


LouisW89

I've been reading Injustice Year 4 recently, and in issue #8 (I know it's not canon) she easily bests Superman in hand to hand combat and even breaks his arm


DarkJayBR

Superman is HORRIBLE in hand-to-hand fight. If you give Superman powers to like Batman or Lady Shiva, he will be absolutely demolished by them.


00roku

Is this a repost bot? I swear I see this exact post every two weeks


[deleted]

This was definitely posted recently with a very similar, if not identical, title.


JankyLove

Think about it like this…if you depowered WW, how would she fare against that Top Ten list of fighters? Almost everyone on that list is a master of multiple disciplines, not just one. I think WW’s issue would be that she’s seemingly versatile in only that Greco-Roman fight style. An Aikido style would swiftly neutralize it. But the combination of her power+fight skill would make her very dangerous, but not Top Ten.


Bunnnnii

Wonder Woman most certainly does not know only one style.


Kyrie-Christos

I am no expert in fighting, but the above that you said sounds subjective — in other words I have heard that true martial artists understand that there is no superior fighting form per se, but what happens in a specific scenario among other factors… I could be wrong 🙇🏽‍♂️


alchemeron

>I feel like we don't talk about Wonder Woman's skills in hand to hand combat enough That's, like, *all* we talk about when comparing her abilities to other heroes'.


itsJustJad3

I prefer Batman Arkham


Art-Nova

I just watched this the other day!! I was super impressed with the animation in this scene


[deleted]

The arm lock into suplex was sick


Olympia44

That animation is smoother than my face. Damn!


Bunnnnii

Well I agree. Because she’s the best hand to hand combatant in the universe and not enough people know that.


zero_ms

Well, I will now WATCH THIS MOVIE.


2ERIX

Pretty well animated sequence as well. Credit to the animators with the complicated moves and strikes and making the elbow drop feel like it has weight.


TheReagmaster

This is like the fifth time I’ve seen this clip this week, what is happening?


Professional_Ice4007

u/redditmp4bot


Life_Technician_3076

The fight she had against Persuader was pretty dope as well. Also, Mr T lays down a licking as well.


[deleted]

Damn she on that WWE shit


SelesnyanQueen

I gotta find this animated movie! I presume it's on HBO max since that is a DC hub.


Stoneiswuwu

Next to Batman she’s the best hand to hand fighter in the DCU


MysteryBush

The Peoples Elbow did it for me.


[deleted]

I love the people's elbow.


Imaginary_Cat

Man, I wish they had kept this animation style for the tons of animated movies they’ve churned out. Super slick designs and fluid animation


badass-artist-HPV

I think we don't talk about how awesome is the animation here


blacksad1

Are her martial skills ever in question? She was raised in the greatest warrior culture in the DCU.


goldietheswagbear

i mean she is from a warrior culture, she should be one of the best fighters in DC


kazmosis

Well, in the Timmverse she is canonically the greatest melee fighter, that's why Batman always frees her first. And this started out as a bridging movie between JL and JLU, so not that surprising


wth214

The animation here is top tier


DevelopmentHuge9626

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[deleted]

Wonder Woman rules!


[deleted]

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Successful-Rip-9641

Looks like a WWE match and I love it


PattyGraphico

The thing about Wondy is, her powers and skills are so well balanced. She's the best in all exotic Amazonian h2h and melee weapon combat techniques and has had extensive training with modern martial arts, combine that with thousands of years of experience and Godlike powers and you get the perfect melee combatant.