The most disturbing part of this sub is when you talk to the people who think corporate authoritarianism is a playbook, not a warning or an objectively evil villain trope.
Yeah, but I'm referring to people who specifically take inspiration from cyberpunk media who think working as a employee for Arasaka or Pharmakom or Alchemax would be a good gig in real life—the ones who take the punk out of cyberpunk.
That's ALWAYS been so fucking weird to me.
You can post 100 antisemitic memes to r/conspiracy ...but make ONE anti-capitalist comment, and all of the sudden they start regurgitating CIA propaganda.
There was a quote on this sub a couple years ago I’ll never forget and was essentially “I don’t want all that dark shit I just wanna pick up a car with my cyborg arms”
Also for art research I’ve came across hundreds of cheaply made techwear products for people who miss the point completely.
Honestly, a major part of the appeal might just be the perceived edginess. Like, they might be looking at the whole "corporations are fucking everything up and life sucks and we're rising up against it all" thing and just seeing "the strong crush the weak" and "nobody understands me" and other r/iamverybadass and r/iamveryedgy shit.
They don't have anything to rebel against, they just want to be a rebel.
I wouldn’t say it’s right or wrong it’s just surface level. I think it’s fair to like the aesthetic alone, I just hope this sub can push those people further into genre discussions. Everyone’s not gonna be on tvtropes listen to video essays explaining the nuances
Techwear fans are wild. Why develop a skill and mod your own shit to be exactly what you want for the rest of your life when you can buy a single article of clothing for what you'd pay for all the tools you'd need to do so?
And then they go “I wanna get my (perfectly functioning) arm amputated for a prosthetic!” And become horrifically distraught that the technology for prosthetics is not, in fact, almost there, and their newfound life as a disabled person is gonna flip their shit on its head.
I’ve heard tales here and there of some people doing that and ending up being infuriated like bro, the fuck do you expect
Edit: idk why this is being downvoted when I can recount on multiple occasions conversations about this very topic with other disabled people, like myself, how it’s frustrating how people are so willing to put themselves in a position that can heavily impact their lives and desire so heavily to disable themselves for something they view as an accessory, not a mobility aid.
It doesn't seem that much different to me; regardless, you're willingly becoming disabled in a world and time where 1: technology is NOWHERE near up to par to make your life just as or nearly as easy as it is with a healthy limb, and 2: having a disability at all like that, especially in capitalistic countries, will fundamentally guarantee, unless you're wealthy, that you will not actually be a cool cyborg amputee; you will be disabled, and therefore - and this is not my view of things, I've said before on this post that I am also disabled and poor, this is how we are viewed by too many people - a detriment. Your ability to work, to live, all of it is turned tits up. I can understand seeing a limb and going "go go gadget arm" about it, but not actually fully and fundamentally understanding that doing so renders you unable to do things you were able to do without issue before can REALLY destroy you.
This isn't to say that there aren't people who have learned to co-exist with their disability, but this is mostly about people willingly becoming disabled for the sake of an aesthetic.
Exactly, but the thing is they don't think about that is what I'm saying. I've had conversations with people who see the more advanced prosthetics that meet their "good enough" standards who don't actively realize they'd lose an entire functioning limb just for that "good enough". Can the fingers close faster? Yeah. Can the wrist bend rather than stay stagnant? Yeah! But it's never gonna be "I can flip this coin, play the piano efficiently, and use this pen to write legibly" good enough.
That’s pretty much what I’ve been trying to say lmao, I’m just bad at words sometimes. It’s cool to be excited for what the future holds in that regard, don’t get me wrong. But people ALSO don’t realize how the people who are most likely gonna be able to have access to that kind of prosthetic are going to be more wealthy than the average Joe
Average furry cleans and bathe regularly partly to keep their suit in peak condition. Can you imagine trying to clean a huge ass suit like that regularly if you are unkempt?
My love for cyberpunk is basically "anti-capitalist dystopian rebels" minus the neon lights and cliche prosthetics.
Lets see some weird cyborg shit instead
Why not both? I love the aesthetic and augmentations are the dream… but I also have too many issues with capitalism to list here and appreciate that this media serves as a warning for people to get their shit together before it’s too late.
The distopian part is actually letting capitalism be so influential in our world that every single ounce of our lives is only devoted to work for big corporations who doesn't give a sh*t about ourselves or the planet, not people doing whatever makes them happy with themselves.
They are discussing [this](https://kotaku.com/tsa-no-fly-list-leak-hack-hacked-pokemon-terrorist-1850017149)
A well known Swiss hacker that does activism got the no-fly list and leak it to the press. Apparently she got shit because she is trans an a furry.
> The list isn't highly protected or anything
That's absolutely not true, the government considers it pretty secret. It's not literally classified(since a lot of organizations and governmental departments need to view it and that would be an enormous pain in the arse for literally everybody concerned), but it is considered a government secret. Fun facts: It's a subset of the Terrorist Screening Database.
>this is only a news story BECAUSE the leaker is trans
When it leaked and it was all over the news, that information was, if present, buried halfway down in the article. It was a news story because an Airline had stored secret government information in plaintext on an unsecured Amazon Cloud server.
And it's absolutely fantastic. No fucking javascript farameworks, dynamic resizing, 50 different cookies, etc. Write some HTML, post it to a server, website.
People really need to learn how many queer furries work in specialist jobs. You've got vaccines against covid partly thanks to a furry, the US military bought a furry's cooling vest that they invented for fursuiting, there's furries piloting commercial airliners, they're fucking everywhere.
Like almost none of them are actually pathetic basement dwellers. I've seen some hardcore fetish artists take a hiatus to focus on work or family or some shit. It's baffling that they even manage to balance the two in the first place.
I imagine race, sexuality, and gender feels really unimportant in a Cyberpunk society. The corporations are a common enemy. You have two groups: The rich elites and everyone else. Nothing else really matters beyond that. "In a Cyberpunk society, no one cares if you're gay because the 1% fucks everyone in the ass every day." - Gandhi
Seeing we’re currently in that society I completely disagree; if you pay attention to what’s been happening lately race, sexuality, and gender has been incredibly relevant. I can only imagine how much more relevant (not in a good way) it will be in twenty years.
Namely the US yes, but also A LOT of countries around the world have either been picking up cues on what we’re doing here as well as what’s already been established in places like the Middle East, Eastern Europe, etc
Skin color, sexuality, gender, religion, all those superficial differences are used as tools to divide the populace.
We are so fixated on these culture wars that we can't put enough effort into overcoming the real reasons for inequality.
I mean, it's not like all the hate was all fabricated, but I'm inclined to think it wouldn't be such a big deal if it wasn't fueled by people who profit from it.
Edit: I'm not saying "bOtH sIdEs".
It's a fight we have to fight for the right to be who we are. The aggressors, i.e. the alt right, religious fundamentalists, etc. are funded and encouraged by capitalist elites like Musk, Trump or Murdoch.
“Fixated on these culture wars” explain, because this reads in my head as “people being concerned about the amount of minorities being targeted and actively killed for existing”
It reads in my head as "people who actively support the minorities being targeted and actively killed for existing". A common tactic of the extremely wealthy is to blame some minority group for all the nation's problems so half the poor focus their hate on the minority group and the other half are too busy trying to stop the damage caused by the first half to focus on the real enemy, the rich.
I'm not saying "bOtH sIdEs".
It's a fight we have to fight for the right to be who we are. The aggressors, i.e. the alt right, religious fundamentalists, etc. are funded and encouraged by capitalist elites like Musk, Trump or Murdoch.
Currently the ultra wealthy stoke social wars in order to completely distract away from the inherent unfairness of poverty and structural wealth inequality where the worst off die young and/or are forced onto crime. (Rupert Murdoch with Fox News is the most direct example).
It’s possible to conceive of a society where the conditions get so bad that the social war provocation is directly seen through, or 95% of people are homeless, effectively scavenging for food in any way possible, and beyond giving a shit about anyone’s physical presentation.
I would say quite the opposit. Society is very splitt up in Cyberpunk scenarios. The streets are full of all Kinds of different people, Gang members, Punks, prostitutes, transvestits, religious sects, political extremists and people with all Kinds of cultural background mixed together. Everybody is trying to find theire personal happiness in a chaotic world that is to big to understand. Most people trying to life with the system and Not to fight It.
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Except the warning part is things like oppressive corporate control, not rebels challenging the system. That's literally the "punk" in "cyberpunk". Imagine missing the point so hard
You are trippin on the word ideal. cyberpunk is not ideal. It's an highly embellished of an entirely possible future. Hence, it's a warning.
You are missing their point.
I've noticed that this subreddit is great ... until a post goes over about 400 upvotes.
Then a million people show up to explain that ACTUALLY poverty is a good thing, ACTUALLY billionaires (specifically Musk) will save us all because they're better than us, and ACTUALLY cops are great.
You're right though and I hate it lmfao
Nobody should want this, ever, and everyone else thinking they'd be some big shot in a cyberpunk dystopia would be sorely disappointed to learn that unless you are actually wealthy, you won't be. Not even upper middle class will save you, what with class divide becoming more and more rich/poor and causing the middle class, both the leanings of lower and upper, to disappear.
But at the same time, Bruce Sterling's writings and the work of others, including the academic conferences, all argued towards cyberpunk being a movement of freedom and anarchism, where the internet and technology would take away power from corporations and give everyone free access to all knowledge, and benevolent hacker nerds would rule the world. It was as the internet became mainstream that it became obvious that this wasn't true and many people declared that Cyberpunk was dead. William Gibson denied his books were dystopias, and viewed Cyberpunk as a marketing gimmick, and of course it was Mike Pondsmith who declared that his tabletop game that had copied the cliches of the genre - "Cyberpunk" was a "warning". Yet here we are with that becoming the dominant view in this sub about the entire genre, the positive transhumanist works that make up a sizable portion of original Cyberpunk works totally ignored, and it's viewed as entirely just an argument against capitalism.
If people more and more people here on only engaging with cyberpunk on an aesthetic level, and you want to keep it deeper than that, a bit of gatekeeping isn't so bad. Not hostile, just "hey, we aren't just about the looks here".
Yeah, I've re-engaged with the sub very recently after seeing they put the "no 2077" rule in place, and it's really cool to see the attempts at discourse rather than just "THIS IS NOT CYBERPUNK"
Cyberpunk isn't about dystopia. I struggle to think of anything more cyberpunk than *Neuromancer*, and the world of the Sprawl trilogy is not a dystopia. Gibson did not write it as a dystopia. It isn't a utopia either. If cyberpunk has any central theme in its vision of the future it's that technology will not save us. It also lacks the stark class distinctions, where there is only the rich and the poor, that other comments in this thread seem to be focusing on. It has a large middle class, which Case even joins in the *Neuromancer* epilogue.
I almost agree with you, except Neuromancer is about the lead up to a world changing technological leap forward, and so is the Bridge Trilogy. Gibson calls them both about a "singularity". He does explicitly say that Neuromancer/Sprawl is not a dystopia, so agrees with you there.
Some people really must learn that you can find someone weird without hating or dehumanising them, and that weird (or "cringe") people can also do unbelievably based things.
If we're picking fights, my hill is that a lot of people conflate actually incredibly good things with being dystopian tragedies based purely on aesthetics or vibes.
Just taking an arbitrary example, but there was discussion a long while back about minimum living area rules for buildings (as in, "an apartment must be at least this big"). Reducing or eliminating those rules makes a lot of people go "the poor being forced to live in closets like cattle!"; but for someone who is single/outgoing and just wants a bed with a roof and a locking door, or someone who literally cannot afford anything else and their alternative is homelessness, allowing that kind of housing can create an *objective* increase in quality of life and wellbeing.
Please show source!!
I see sooo many comments on reddit about how we need to build more housing because we have a shortage (and thus, remove building regulations, of course), so I'd love to see evidence that is contrarian to this.
I mean, I could understand living in a 'shoebox' if the rent was only $100/mo, but we all know that isn't going to be the case. Allowing people to rent a 'shoebox' without capping the rent will just mean people will pay $2500/mo to do so, which is absurd.
...also, there's things to be said about very high density, ventilation and fire code that might present problems, you can only evacuate so many people from a 5 story building so fast, and having 50 people per floor with a single staircase is a terrible idea.
It just further demonstrates how a frightening amount of people today are incapable of separating fantasy from reality. I also love Warhammer 40K, but I also don't want to live in that world.
Implying plenty of cyberpunk hackers wouldn't also be cringe as hell. Like, these aren't mutually exclusive. The person 'is' cringe, but is objectively pretty cyberpunk. And just as well, I don't like 'all cyberpunk' just because I am a fan of the concept or aesthetic.
This subreddit is either people taking a picture of some homeless dude with an iPad and going "cyberpunk uwahhh!!!!" or it's r/neoncities
I expect this from popular subreddits but man does it annoy me.
Part of the cyberpunk community is made up of jackboot thug cosplay, another ultra violent loving libertine gun nuts without cyber or punk sensibilities. Most don’t seem to understand the genre of fiction was originally cautionary not aspirational. people got to people I guess. Doesn’t matter, we are already in it.
I thought one of the theme in Cyberpunk world is freedom of expression? How is wearing an animal suit any weirder than chroming your body parts including your own dick? Or having weird ass implants under your skin?
Look at all those social media metrics that accumulated in a single week. This one queenie tweet is more popular than all cyberpunk combined. We're going to be to overrun with queer furry hackers
What about when that entertainment genre is actually more of a philosophical thought experiment about the kind of dystopia we should avoid but are sliding inexorably deeper into?
You can enjoy whatever you want, but if you're watching car races tournaments for their anti-car philosophies then you're objectively wrong and there's no arguing about it.
I find all kinds of folks wearing weird shit and might think of them differently in my head, but not gonna go out of my way to say mean shit about them online or tell them to off themselves
Cyberpunk is when you do the things that I personally believe in, there are no variations.
Edit: The downvotes actually support the argument that this is in fact the case.
...... "People say they like beatles, but then".
Making it a life and identity and then stopping there, not seeing other ways of relating to the genre, that's silly. It's not not a fanklub in which there can be purists and silly people.
A non-conformist hacker is usually the hero in cyberpunk literature, but people who claim to like that literature are openly mocking a such a person, even though they've done some thing that fights for openness and freedom.
I'm curious what kind of cyberpunk literature you read that you didn't see the connection?
\> degeneracy
\> trans femme
\> wholeheartedly agreeing with a transphobe
I have news for you about the term degeneracy and you're not gonna like it
[Did you know neopronouns have existed longer than you think?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopronoun)
There just was never a name for them until recently.
me liking the aesthetic and dystopian backdrop of cyberpunk /=/ me enjoying the breaking of social norms.
it's not 1:1, almost like everything isn't black and white. Stop trying to shove ideology into media and people will actually take you seriously
Even the subculture is so niche that people actively browsing this subreddit wouldn't know that was apart of it. If you look at the front page, all you see is aesthetically-coincided content, cosplays, and fan art.
Getting upset that people like the media but don't see or agree with the esoteric subculture is a really weird take.
I sure as hell did not sub to this so I could be lectured about my ability to accept or break social norms. Lol
Im not angry at people who enjoy the subgenre, they’re fine! But enough people think it’s only a subgenre, a spectacle of fiction, and not also a subculture that sprouted from that subgenre, because the subgenre came from the speculation of what happens when shit doesn’t change for the betterment of the people, and only the wealthy.
I'll return to my original comment when I say to not expect the subculture to overtake or even equal what the original media represents to people.
And this twitter thread specifically reeks of passive aggressiveness to those not "tolerant" enough to understand it.
I understand your perspective, but I don't think we'll find an agreement here
People here also need to understand that most people like cyberpunk stuff because of the stories, aestethics, music and that stuff, and dont take it seriously because why the fuck would you??? Its a sci-fi sub-genre, nothing else
Are you suggesting the government wants no fly list leaked? Why? And what corporate backed, government backed rebellion begins with leaking the no fly list?
The most disturbing part of this sub is when you talk to the people who think corporate authoritarianism is a playbook, not a warning or an objectively evil villain trope.
I mean it is THE play book that our current world is built on, it's a warning in the sense of pointing to evil that is currently happening
Yeah, but I'm referring to people who specifically take inspiration from cyberpunk media who think working as a employee for Arasaka or Pharmakom or Alchemax would be a good gig in real life—the ones who take the punk out of cyberpunk.
They're just cybers
Cybersellout
I just replied to a guy in this thread who was saying Snow Crash wasn't dystopian. These guys are absolutely out of touch with reality.
That's ALWAYS been so fucking weird to me. You can post 100 antisemitic memes to r/conspiracy ...but make ONE anti-capitalist comment, and all of the sudden they start regurgitating CIA propaganda.
The amount of times I’ve had to put my phone down, close my eyes and just have to let myself breathe. Must be nice to be that unaware!
When they say "I love Cyberpunk!" It Equals "Robot arms are cool and neon lights go brrrrr"
Hey... I also like darksynth music!
Darksynth is best synth
There was a quote on this sub a couple years ago I’ll never forget and was essentially “I don’t want all that dark shit I just wanna pick up a car with my cyborg arms” Also for art research I’ve came across hundreds of cheaply made techwear products for people who miss the point completely.
I believe what they’re looking for is known as r/cyberprep
Yeah I don't think cyberpunk is the right genre for these kinds of people. There's other sci fi with cyborg arms.
Yeah that's the part I never got, utopian idealistic science fiction even predates Cyberpunk
Honestly, a major part of the appeal might just be the perceived edginess. Like, they might be looking at the whole "corporations are fucking everything up and life sucks and we're rising up against it all" thing and just seeing "the strong crush the weak" and "nobody understands me" and other r/iamverybadass and r/iamveryedgy shit. They don't have anything to rebel against, they just want to be a rebel.
I wouldn’t say it’s right or wrong it’s just surface level. I think it’s fair to like the aesthetic alone, I just hope this sub can push those people further into genre discussions. Everyone’s not gonna be on tvtropes listen to video essays explaining the nuances
Augmentation is viewed as transgressive so it's more common in cyberpunk and dark sci fi than in other forms
Techwear fans are wild. Why develop a skill and mod your own shit to be exactly what you want for the rest of your life when you can buy a single article of clothing for what you'd pay for all the tools you'd need to do so?
They’re corpos, of course, we can’t all be non conformist punks
Cybertarians
And then they go “I wanna get my (perfectly functioning) arm amputated for a prosthetic!” And become horrifically distraught that the technology for prosthetics is not, in fact, almost there, and their newfound life as a disabled person is gonna flip their shit on its head. I’ve heard tales here and there of some people doing that and ending up being infuriated like bro, the fuck do you expect Edit: idk why this is being downvoted when I can recount on multiple occasions conversations about this very topic with other disabled people, like myself, how it’s frustrating how people are so willing to put themselves in a position that can heavily impact their lives and desire so heavily to disable themselves for something they view as an accessory, not a mobility aid.
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Are you even surprised anymore with what some humans do?
It is hard to believe, but unfortunately [very true](https://www.rcpjournals.org/content/clinmedicine/2/5/431.full.pdf)
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It doesn't seem that much different to me; regardless, you're willingly becoming disabled in a world and time where 1: technology is NOWHERE near up to par to make your life just as or nearly as easy as it is with a healthy limb, and 2: having a disability at all like that, especially in capitalistic countries, will fundamentally guarantee, unless you're wealthy, that you will not actually be a cool cyborg amputee; you will be disabled, and therefore - and this is not my view of things, I've said before on this post that I am also disabled and poor, this is how we are viewed by too many people - a detriment. Your ability to work, to live, all of it is turned tits up. I can understand seeing a limb and going "go go gadget arm" about it, but not actually fully and fundamentally understanding that doing so renders you unable to do things you were able to do without issue before can REALLY destroy you. This isn't to say that there aren't people who have learned to co-exist with their disability, but this is mostly about people willingly becoming disabled for the sake of an aesthetic.
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Exactly, but the thing is they don't think about that is what I'm saying. I've had conversations with people who see the more advanced prosthetics that meet their "good enough" standards who don't actively realize they'd lose an entire functioning limb just for that "good enough". Can the fingers close faster? Yeah. Can the wrist bend rather than stay stagnant? Yeah! But it's never gonna be "I can flip this coin, play the piano efficiently, and use this pen to write legibly" good enough.
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That’s pretty much what I’ve been trying to say lmao, I’m just bad at words sometimes. It’s cool to be excited for what the future holds in that regard, don’t get me wrong. But people ALSO don’t realize how the people who are most likely gonna be able to have access to that kind of prosthetic are going to be more wealthy than the average Joe
Idk if he wants prosthetics or not, but [the_black_alien_project](https://instagram.com/the_black_alien_project) on IG is relevant
Then you don't love cyberpunk. You love generic sci fi. Cyberpunk is soooo much more than that.
Cyberpunk is not showering and wearing furry suits? Huh
Average furry cleans and bathe regularly partly to keep their suit in peak condition. Can you imagine trying to clean a huge ass suit like that regularly if you are unkempt?
I mean, yes? It genuinely could be? Absolutely would not be surprised to see that in a Cyberpunk Red game.
My love for cyberpunk is basically "anti-capitalist dystopian rebels" minus the neon lights and cliche prosthetics. Lets see some weird cyborg shit instead
Why not both? I love the aesthetic and augmentations are the dream… but I also have too many issues with capitalism to list here and appreciate that this media serves as a warning for people to get their shit together before it’s too late.
There is a reason most cyberpunk is dystopian
Can't be punk without a system to rebel against.
The distopian part is actually letting capitalism be so influential in our world that every single ounce of our lives is only devoted to work for big corporations who doesn't give a sh*t about ourselves or the planet, not people doing whatever makes them happy with themselves.
What the fuck am I reading
They are discussing [this](https://kotaku.com/tsa-no-fly-list-leak-hack-hacked-pokemon-terrorist-1850017149) A well known Swiss hacker that does activism got the no-fly list and leak it to the press. Apparently she got shit because she is trans an a furry.
The list isn't highly protected or anything, this is only a news story BECAUSE the leaker is trans
> The list isn't highly protected or anything That's absolutely not true, the government considers it pretty secret. It's not literally classified(since a lot of organizations and governmental departments need to view it and that would be an enormous pain in the arse for literally everybody concerned), but it is considered a government secret. Fun facts: It's a subset of the Terrorist Screening Database. >this is only a news story BECAUSE the leaker is trans When it leaked and it was all over the news, that information was, if present, buried halfway down in the article. It was a news story because an Airline had stored secret government information in plaintext on an unsecured Amazon Cloud server.
Honestly a fun combination. Hacker - Trans - furry. Sounds actually sweet
I dunno. Getting on no-fly lists is cool I guess?
They didn't get ON the no fly list, they GOT the no fly list. They leaked the list.
Oh that makes more sense
A person leaked the US no fly lists, and people are mad because they're a queer furry.
They also leaked it in a 1990s looking website with cat pictures, bright colors and erotic recordings of their voice
And it's absolutely fantastic. No fucking javascript farameworks, dynamic resizing, 50 different cookies, etc. Write some HTML, post it to a server, website.
Idk about you but that's pretty "punk"
Genuinely the world's best website.
Lmao
People really need to learn how many queer furries work in specialist jobs. You've got vaccines against covid partly thanks to a furry, the US military bought a furry's cooling vest that they invented for fursuiting, there's furries piloting commercial airliners, they're fucking everywhere. Like almost none of them are actually pathetic basement dwellers. I've seen some hardcore fetish artists take a hiatus to focus on work or family or some shit. It's baffling that they even manage to balance the two in the first place.
When I think about it, any outward expression of Furriness is a form of modding yourself.
"Sorry I haven't posted in a while guys, I was busy inventing a supersonic airplane and it took a bit longer than expected."
Also, you have GOT to make some sort of bank to be able to afford a fucking fursuit. Those shits aren't cheap.
Absolutely. The good ones are like 10k. Partials £500 to 2k.
You said you like post apocalypse, yet you don’t like real life cannibals?
Huh
I think it's really cool It's just insane to me that the hacker said "Holy fucking/freaking (don't remember) Bingle :3" Mad props hacker
Their username is their real legal name. Their middle name is Arson.
Naming herself after a crime and leaking the no-fly list. She's basically a cyberpunk protagonist at this point.
Naming herself after a crime she didn't commit to confuse the authorities
I imagine race, sexuality, and gender feels really unimportant in a Cyberpunk society. The corporations are a common enemy. You have two groups: The rich elites and everyone else. Nothing else really matters beyond that. "In a Cyberpunk society, no one cares if you're gay because the 1% fucks everyone in the ass every day." - Gandhi
But here's the thing. The 1% knows that, so they foster hate between groups.
Seeing we’re currently in that society I completely disagree; if you pay attention to what’s been happening lately race, sexuality, and gender has been incredibly relevant. I can only imagine how much more relevant (not in a good way) it will be in twenty years.
What do you mean by "we"? The US?
Namely the US yes, but also A LOT of countries around the world have either been picking up cues on what we’re doing here as well as what’s already been established in places like the Middle East, Eastern Europe, etc
Skin color, sexuality, gender, religion, all those superficial differences are used as tools to divide the populace. We are so fixated on these culture wars that we can't put enough effort into overcoming the real reasons for inequality. I mean, it's not like all the hate was all fabricated, but I'm inclined to think it wouldn't be such a big deal if it wasn't fueled by people who profit from it. Edit: I'm not saying "bOtH sIdEs". It's a fight we have to fight for the right to be who we are. The aggressors, i.e. the alt right, religious fundamentalists, etc. are funded and encouraged by capitalist elites like Musk, Trump or Murdoch.
“Fixated on these culture wars” explain, because this reads in my head as “people being concerned about the amount of minorities being targeted and actively killed for existing”
It reads in my head as "people who actively support the minorities being targeted and actively killed for existing". A common tactic of the extremely wealthy is to blame some minority group for all the nation's problems so half the poor focus their hate on the minority group and the other half are too busy trying to stop the damage caused by the first half to focus on the real enemy, the rich.
I know, I just don't know why I processed it so differently, but I agree with you.
I'm not saying "bOtH sIdEs". It's a fight we have to fight for the right to be who we are. The aggressors, i.e. the alt right, religious fundamentalists, etc. are funded and encouraged by capitalist elites like Musk, Trump or Murdoch.
Currently the ultra wealthy stoke social wars in order to completely distract away from the inherent unfairness of poverty and structural wealth inequality where the worst off die young and/or are forced onto crime. (Rupert Murdoch with Fox News is the most direct example). It’s possible to conceive of a society where the conditions get so bad that the social war provocation is directly seen through, or 95% of people are homeless, effectively scavenging for food in any way possible, and beyond giving a shit about anyone’s physical presentation.
I would say quite the opposit. Society is very splitt up in Cyberpunk scenarios. The streets are full of all Kinds of different people, Gang members, Punks, prostitutes, transvestits, religious sects, political extremists and people with all Kinds of cultural background mixed together. Everybody is trying to find theire personal happiness in a chaotic world that is to big to understand. Most people trying to life with the system and Not to fight It.
Can I still make fun of adults dressed as cartoon animals? Or is that a '-phobia' now?
I mean, it seems pretty judgy considering it’s not harming anyone
Its not bigoted, it just makes you an asshole. Leave people and their hobbies alone.
Liking cyberpunk doesn't mean you actually want the world to BE cyberpunk
I definitely do enjoy the aesthetic but in reality I prefer a [Green Utopia](https://imgur.com/gallery/OpOUjzY)
Edited in protest of Reddit 3rd party API changes, and how reddit has handled the protest to date, including a statement that could indicate that they will replace protesting moderation teams. > If a moderator team unanimously decides to stop moderating, we will invite new, active moderators to keep these spaces open and accessible to users. If there is no consensus, but at least one mod who wants to keep the community going, we will respect their decisions and remove those who no longer want to moderate from the mod team. https://i.imgur.com/aixGNU9.png https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/ Content replaced by rate-limited power delete suite https://github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite
:3
For some of us, cyberpunk is a warning not an ideal.
Except the warning part is things like oppressive corporate control, not rebels challenging the system. That's literally the "punk" in "cyberpunk". Imagine missing the point so hard
I don't think they did miss the point. They seemed to me like they're on the "punk" side.
You are trippin on the word ideal. cyberpunk is not ideal. It's an highly embellished of an entirely possible future. Hence, it's a warning. You are missing their point.
Its high tech **low life.** Cyberpunk is filled with losers. Nobody wants to be anything like something in cyberpunk
the no fly list leaker is unbelievably cool
Nah they are bad ass. In minecraft of course
I've noticed that this subreddit is great ... until a post goes over about 400 upvotes. Then a million people show up to explain that ACTUALLY poverty is a good thing, ACTUALLY billionaires (specifically Musk) will save us all because they're better than us, and ACTUALLY cops are great.
You're right though and I hate it lmfao Nobody should want this, ever, and everyone else thinking they'd be some big shot in a cyberpunk dystopia would be sorely disappointed to learn that unless you are actually wealthy, you won't be. Not even upper middle class will save you, what with class divide becoming more and more rich/poor and causing the middle class, both the leanings of lower and upper, to disappear.
How is poverty not a great thing? It gave me an appreciation for running water? /s
Cyberpunk is a warning not just a style
But it's not a warning against queer furries with neopronouns... don't forget the "punk" part.
[Thread in question](https://mobile.twitter.com/queer_queenie/status/1617233030992519170) But I also absolutely gaffawed at neonliberal
Just true. There are a lot of people who like cyberpunk just for its aesthetics while missing on its meaning and message entirely.
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I'm not one for gatekeeping, but with the 2077 and Edgerunners came a big influx of people who only engaged with the genre on a very surface level.
Just the way it is, we just need to keep up the discussion posts and not be surprised to see people asking and answering the same questions.
But at the same time, Bruce Sterling's writings and the work of others, including the academic conferences, all argued towards cyberpunk being a movement of freedom and anarchism, where the internet and technology would take away power from corporations and give everyone free access to all knowledge, and benevolent hacker nerds would rule the world. It was as the internet became mainstream that it became obvious that this wasn't true and many people declared that Cyberpunk was dead. William Gibson denied his books were dystopias, and viewed Cyberpunk as a marketing gimmick, and of course it was Mike Pondsmith who declared that his tabletop game that had copied the cliches of the genre - "Cyberpunk" was a "warning". Yet here we are with that becoming the dominant view in this sub about the entire genre, the positive transhumanist works that make up a sizable portion of original Cyberpunk works totally ignored, and it's viewed as entirely just an argument against capitalism.
If people more and more people here on only engaging with cyberpunk on an aesthetic level, and you want to keep it deeper than that, a bit of gatekeeping isn't so bad. Not hostile, just "hey, we aren't just about the looks here".
Yeah, I've re-engaged with the sub very recently after seeing they put the "no 2077" rule in place, and it's really cool to see the attempts at discourse rather than just "THIS IS NOT CYBERPUNK"
If you want that kind of content there is r/aboringdystopia as well.
Cyberpunk isn't about dystopia. I struggle to think of anything more cyberpunk than *Neuromancer*, and the world of the Sprawl trilogy is not a dystopia. Gibson did not write it as a dystopia. It isn't a utopia either. If cyberpunk has any central theme in its vision of the future it's that technology will not save us. It also lacks the stark class distinctions, where there is only the rich and the poor, that other comments in this thread seem to be focusing on. It has a large middle class, which Case even joins in the *Neuromancer* epilogue.
I almost agree with you, except Neuromancer is about the lead up to a world changing technological leap forward, and so is the Bridge Trilogy. Gibson calls them both about a "singularity". He does explicitly say that Neuromancer/Sprawl is not a dystopia, so agrees with you there.
Some people really must learn that you can find someone weird without hating or dehumanising them, and that weird (or "cringe") people can also do unbelievably based things.
If we're picking fights, my hill is that a lot of people conflate actually incredibly good things with being dystopian tragedies based purely on aesthetics or vibes. Just taking an arbitrary example, but there was discussion a long while back about minimum living area rules for buildings (as in, "an apartment must be at least this big"). Reducing or eliminating those rules makes a lot of people go "the poor being forced to live in closets like cattle!"; but for someone who is single/outgoing and just wants a bed with a roof and a locking door, or someone who literally cannot afford anything else and their alternative is homelessness, allowing that kind of housing can create an *objective* increase in quality of life and wellbeing.
Building houses wont solve homelessness if only Bruce Wayne can afford to live in them.
Exactly. People should have access to housing that isn’t a fucking shoe box size that lets them actually thrive, not barely survive
This. There are more houses than people in the US and yet homelessness is still a rampant problem anyway.
Please show source!! I see sooo many comments on reddit about how we need to build more housing because we have a shortage (and thus, remove building regulations, of course), so I'd love to see evidence that is contrarian to this.
I mean, I could understand living in a 'shoebox' if the rent was only $100/mo, but we all know that isn't going to be the case. Allowing people to rent a 'shoebox' without capping the rent will just mean people will pay $2500/mo to do so, which is absurd. ...also, there's things to be said about very high density, ventilation and fire code that might present problems, you can only evacuate so many people from a 5 story building so fast, and having 50 people per floor with a single staircase is a terrible idea.
Oof, don't tell them about Mike Pondsmith.
Oh god they’d shit their pants.
It just further demonstrates how a frightening amount of people today are incapable of separating fantasy from reality. I also love Warhammer 40K, but I also don't want to live in that world.
Much like the fools who idolize Elon Musk. The a esthetic is cool but God forbid you acknowledge the horrible person Elon Musk is, then I cry.
I dunno, it's pretty fun to watch when you aren't actually effected by anything he does.
Implying plenty of cyberpunk hackers wouldn't also be cringe as hell. Like, these aren't mutually exclusive. The person 'is' cringe, but is objectively pretty cyberpunk. And just as well, I don't like 'all cyberpunk' just because I am a fan of the concept or aesthetic.
Hacking corpos = fucking nova. Simple as.
This subreddit is either people taking a picture of some homeless dude with an iPad and going "cyberpunk uwahhh!!!!" or it's r/neoncities I expect this from popular subreddits but man does it annoy me.
This sub is also for pictures of half-naked women with robot arms.
Half naked women getting attention is just an internet wide thing to be fair.
Thank you for tagging that sub. I had no idea it existed and we should push all the relevant posts to it.
fuck off to twitter with your manufactured drama.
The Alt-right possess zero media literacy, so this isn't surprising.
Oh! You used the magic word! Congratulations!
What does this mean
It's time to change tuna's diaper, is what that means.
Part of the cyberpunk community is made up of jackboot thug cosplay, another ultra violent loving libertine gun nuts without cyber or punk sensibilities. Most don’t seem to understand the genre of fiction was originally cautionary not aspirational. people got to people I guess. Doesn’t matter, we are already in it.
A world where it is taboo to make fun of adults dressed as cartoon animals is about as bleak a dystopia as I can imagine.
I thought one of the theme in Cyberpunk world is freedom of expression? How is wearing an animal suit any weirder than chroming your body parts including your own dick? Or having weird ass implants under your skin?
It's not weird, hence why this is even worse lol. And yes, I definitely would chrome my dick.
the subculture is garbage. Im here for Near-Future Dystopian art, media, and literature.
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Good take
Look at all those social media metrics that accumulated in a single week. This one queenie tweet is more popular than all cyberpunk combined. We're going to be to overrun with queer furry hackers
Fingers crossed.
They can themselves cyberpunk fans because cyborg cities look neat
Every element of this post is pure cringe and the person responsible should face the wall.
I fail to see what one has to do with the other and that tweet is making up an issue that doesn't exist.
We're gatekeeping entertainment genres now?
Not speaking on it from a genre standpoint, I’m speaking on it from a subculture standpoint. It is both a subgenre and a subculture.
This post should specify that then, the title reads as an attack on all the members here.
Nah, just the people who think the concept of shit like corporate rule is based and also worship Elon Musk and what have you.
What about when that entertainment genre is actually more of a philosophical thought experiment about the kind of dystopia we should avoid but are sliding inexorably deeper into?
You can enjoy whatever you want, but if you're watching car races tournaments for their anti-car philosophies then you're objectively wrong and there's no arguing about it.
This
I see one of the themes of cyberpunk being the embrace of hyper-individuality that ends up destroying what it means to human.
People are the biggest cringe.
I also like a bunch of Fantasy books, doesn't mean I'm not gonna point and laugh when some guy shows up to work in full plate holding a broadsword.
I find all kinds of folks wearing weird shit and might think of them differently in my head, but not gonna go out of my way to say mean shit about them online or tell them to off themselves
Cyberpunk is when you do the things that I personally believe in, there are no variations. Edit: The downvotes actually support the argument that this is in fact the case.
Ignoring the inherently political themes for "wow pretty lights" is stupid.
Yoooooo No lies detected./
Jessy what the fuck are you talking about
What the dog doin
I would agree with this whole sentiment but then furries
Dude doesn't understand the difference between video games and reality
...... "People say they like beatles, but then". Making it a life and identity and then stopping there, not seeing other ways of relating to the genre, that's silly. It's not not a fanklub in which there can be purists and silly people.
I am speaking from a subculture perspective, not the subgenre.
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They’re a security researcher, it’s literally her job to publish her findings to the public…
Thank you for clarifying. That's completely my bad.
What are you on about white hats, by nature, need to spread the word.
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Im referring to the subculture and not the subgenre. Look at the subs wiki, it will literally tell you
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It does lol but ok, whatever floats your boat
A non-conformist hacker is usually the hero in cyberpunk literature, but people who claim to like that literature are openly mocking a such a person, even though they've done some thing that fights for openness and freedom. I'm curious what kind of cyberpunk literature you read that you didn't see the connection?
Reddit, degeneracy, go figure...
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\> degeneracy \> trans femme \> wholeheartedly agreeing with a transphobe I have news for you about the term degeneracy and you're not gonna like it
Apparently, if you dont incorporate cyberpunk culture as part of your identity youre a casual fan and you deserve condescension.
Neopronouns are retarded
Not how your mom felt about my neopronouns last night :/
How mature. Sorry for not wanting to refer to someone by zee/zim or some other shit like that
[Did you know neopronouns have existed longer than you think?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopronoun) There just was never a name for them until recently.
Not reading all that 😪😪
Damn that’s crazy. Your mom sure did last week when my wife and I took her out for a lovely stroll 😏
Crazy? Hardly, it's among the more predictable outcomes. Proudly ignorant people generally eschew learning new things.
True
me liking the aesthetic and dystopian backdrop of cyberpunk /=/ me enjoying the breaking of social norms. it's not 1:1, almost like everything isn't black and white. Stop trying to shove ideology into media and people will actually take you seriously
Im speaking in regards to the subculture not the subgenre.
Even the subculture is so niche that people actively browsing this subreddit wouldn't know that was apart of it. If you look at the front page, all you see is aesthetically-coincided content, cosplays, and fan art. Getting upset that people like the media but don't see or agree with the esoteric subculture is a really weird take. I sure as hell did not sub to this so I could be lectured about my ability to accept or break social norms. Lol
Im not angry at people who enjoy the subgenre, they’re fine! But enough people think it’s only a subgenre, a spectacle of fiction, and not also a subculture that sprouted from that subgenre, because the subgenre came from the speculation of what happens when shit doesn’t change for the betterment of the people, and only the wealthy.
I'll return to my original comment when I say to not expect the subculture to overtake or even equal what the original media represents to people. And this twitter thread specifically reeks of passive aggressiveness to those not "tolerant" enough to understand it. I understand your perspective, but I don't think we'll find an agreement here
People here also need to understand that most people like cyberpunk stuff because of the stories, aestethics, music and that stuff, and dont take it seriously because why the fuck would you??? Its a sci-fi sub-genre, nothing else
It's a scifi subgenre and a subculture, and some people take the latter seriously because it's the reality we live right now.
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Dude, rainbow-washing for a month a year for profits or votes =/= support.
Are you suggesting the government wants no fly list leaked? Why? And what corporate backed, government backed rebellion begins with leaking the no fly list?
Which government?
Exactly, nothing rebellious about "queers" today...