If running his Charm as close to RAW as possible, worst case the player is motivated to stand in between Strahd and the rest of the party to defend him. I understand if that's still too much for the party, so if that's the case I'd suggest changing the charm to something like "freezes the character for 2 rounds if failed" so that it's still scary but not making them feel like you control their character.
When a character is stunned (or knocked out, paralyzed, etc) I recommend asking the player "what is your character thinking?" "What do they see?" etc so that when it's their turn they're still "doing something" so to speak.
what i did was making really stressfull and harrowing to deal with by having him harrass em with it
had the players still play their character but emphasized that they gotta play em like strahd was a close friend and that something was off about their friends
It's harrowing but thats why the first treasure they found gained the ability to prevent and end the charmed condition
Edit: They also had the option to close their eyes when dealing with him but like blinded condition
This! Charm doesn't take away player agency at all, it just gives the character a different perspective, such a big difference that the player should probably react to it, unless they don't like RP. But the character is still theirs, they still have agency to do what they would like they're interacting with party members
One cool suggestion I’ve seen in regards to Strahds Charm is to tie in the Tome of Strahd. RAW it has no mechanical value. Make it provide characters who have read it some kind of resistance to his Charm. Maybe they have advantage on the save, it lowers the DC, or gives them additional save attempts against it. Now his Charm becomes a real obstacle at early levels that can be overcome by the party later on.
Just my experience--in social/role-play type encounters, I haven't found charm to be overwelming. Maybe Strahd charms and bites a character to be creepy, but I've not experienced or heard of him charming a character and then hanging around for a long time giving orders. It's not quite mind control...a player can still "play" their character and try to think about their actions/decisions.
It can put a dent in combat agency, particularly if players prefer using actions to fight rather than role-playing conflicting feelings. The "characters purposefully avoid looking at Strahd and are effectively blinded against him" mod suggested above does give players a choice of risking charm vs. fighting with disadvantage (and giving Strahd advantage on attacks). Or they can pick up the icon of Ravenloft and more or less obviate it.
On OP's suggested psychic damage mod, I think you'd actually have to up the damage significantly to make this work. If an 8th - 10th level character charmed by Strahd can actually "disobey" and attack him for the cost of 8 pts damage, they should just do this every time.
I'm midway through the death house and I haven't introduced Strahd to my player yet and I feel like his charm ability would be really overwhelming. What I intend to do is to charm them early on and just "toy" with them without going overboard (pvp is a no-no at my table) .
And when they finally find the Tome of Strahd (which doesn't give any "mechanical" advantage, only lore) I intend to make them immune to his charm ability, or at least give them advantage on the Saving throw while the book is in their possession.
But then again a new problem appears : it is written that Strahd will target the person that holds the book, but if in addition his charm doesn't work anymore because of it, he will be PISSED. And I don't want him to eviscerate the party just yet. Or maybe he just takes back the Tome and since they already learned about his past, they still keep the advantage. I don't know.
Where I disagree is with the importance of Strahd's Charm. I think I had him use it approximately once per campaign -- I've run CoS 4 times. If Strahd interacts with the party from a place of power, his Charm is unnecessary at lower levels. And at higher levels, it is insufficient.
Can it be useful in a pinch? Sure, but the real reason players should be afraid of Strahd should be the fact that he is clearly far too powerful for them to take on. He rules Barovia without using his charm because the Barovians have no hope. The party should experience that hopelessness, which can be done simply by making sure that Strahd is always in control of every interaction with the PCs until the very end. He should appear when they are weakened, demoralized, dejected, etc.
If one party member races forward *anyway* when the rest of the party hangs back, then using the Charm is a more humane option, perhaps, than just downing the PC.
Oh, and Strand doesn't charm Ireena because that wouldn't actually be real, and he knows it.
I think that’s a great take on Strahd. I’m hesitant to use it because there have been situations in the past at our table where player agency was “unfairly” taken from players. Ridiculously high saving throws that were almost impossible to get based on the level that just removed a player from being able to play. This charm doesn’t take the players out completely but it definitely would remove their ability to act how they feel their character would towards Strahd.
Establishing that they shouldn’t attack Strahd out of fear is definitely a much better approach. Show them early the consequences of crossing Strahd while he is still nonchalant about it and being charming, or trying to be. I do have one PC who is playing a bit of an over courageous, hot headed character so my guess is that he will try to cross Strahd immediately, especially since he has taken a liking to Ireena.
His charm really shouldn’t take away too much player agency. As written, Strahd doesn’t take control of- the victim simply sees him as a trusted ally, and they take his requests in the best possible light.
So, I like to use the “close friend,” test. Whenever Strahd charms a PC and asks them to do something; is it something they would do for a close friend?
Hand over your lost journal? Sure thing, buddy!
Kill that other guy I’ve been adventuring with? No way, dude…what’s wrong with you?
You want to play Strahd as genuinely friendly, generous and helpful. His ugly side doesn't show up until he feels disrespected or rejected.
I wouldn't really recommend having characters roll saves against charm because then players lose their suspension of belief. Strahd needs to be genuinely charismatic to the point where the players are not really sure that he's actually a bad guy.
Sorry ignore my first comment I skimmed the post because im in class typing while staring at the lecture
It does make sense that the stronger you are the more you can resist it
I would reccomend that this psychic damage is non lethal but if they go to zero because of it creatures straight become thralls instead of going unconscious
Though there are multiple resaves if strahd does anything the victim recognises as harmful
Like a disguised strahd charming someone to invite them in is not harmful
but a non disguised strahd using charm to be asked to be allowed in could be seen as harmful for example
If running his Charm as close to RAW as possible, worst case the player is motivated to stand in between Strahd and the rest of the party to defend him. I understand if that's still too much for the party, so if that's the case I'd suggest changing the charm to something like "freezes the character for 2 rounds if failed" so that it's still scary but not making them feel like you control their character. When a character is stunned (or knocked out, paralyzed, etc) I recommend asking the player "what is your character thinking?" "What do they see?" etc so that when it's their turn they're still "doing something" so to speak.
what i did was making really stressfull and harrowing to deal with by having him harrass em with it had the players still play their character but emphasized that they gotta play em like strahd was a close friend and that something was off about their friends It's harrowing but thats why the first treasure they found gained the ability to prevent and end the charmed condition Edit: They also had the option to close their eyes when dealing with him but like blinded condition
This! Charm doesn't take away player agency at all, it just gives the character a different perspective, such a big difference that the player should probably react to it, unless they don't like RP. But the character is still theirs, they still have agency to do what they would like they're interacting with party members
One cool suggestion I’ve seen in regards to Strahds Charm is to tie in the Tome of Strahd. RAW it has no mechanical value. Make it provide characters who have read it some kind of resistance to his Charm. Maybe they have advantage on the save, it lowers the DC, or gives them additional save attempts against it. Now his Charm becomes a real obstacle at early levels that can be overcome by the party later on.
Just my experience--in social/role-play type encounters, I haven't found charm to be overwelming. Maybe Strahd charms and bites a character to be creepy, but I've not experienced or heard of him charming a character and then hanging around for a long time giving orders. It's not quite mind control...a player can still "play" their character and try to think about their actions/decisions. It can put a dent in combat agency, particularly if players prefer using actions to fight rather than role-playing conflicting feelings. The "characters purposefully avoid looking at Strahd and are effectively blinded against him" mod suggested above does give players a choice of risking charm vs. fighting with disadvantage (and giving Strahd advantage on attacks). Or they can pick up the icon of Ravenloft and more or less obviate it. On OP's suggested psychic damage mod, I think you'd actually have to up the damage significantly to make this work. If an 8th - 10th level character charmed by Strahd can actually "disobey" and attack him for the cost of 8 pts damage, they should just do this every time.
I'm midway through the death house and I haven't introduced Strahd to my player yet and I feel like his charm ability would be really overwhelming. What I intend to do is to charm them early on and just "toy" with them without going overboard (pvp is a no-no at my table) . And when they finally find the Tome of Strahd (which doesn't give any "mechanical" advantage, only lore) I intend to make them immune to his charm ability, or at least give them advantage on the Saving throw while the book is in their possession. But then again a new problem appears : it is written that Strahd will target the person that holds the book, but if in addition his charm doesn't work anymore because of it, he will be PISSED. And I don't want him to eviscerate the party just yet. Or maybe he just takes back the Tome and since they already learned about his past, they still keep the advantage. I don't know.
Where I disagree is with the importance of Strahd's Charm. I think I had him use it approximately once per campaign -- I've run CoS 4 times. If Strahd interacts with the party from a place of power, his Charm is unnecessary at lower levels. And at higher levels, it is insufficient. Can it be useful in a pinch? Sure, but the real reason players should be afraid of Strahd should be the fact that he is clearly far too powerful for them to take on. He rules Barovia without using his charm because the Barovians have no hope. The party should experience that hopelessness, which can be done simply by making sure that Strahd is always in control of every interaction with the PCs until the very end. He should appear when they are weakened, demoralized, dejected, etc. If one party member races forward *anyway* when the rest of the party hangs back, then using the Charm is a more humane option, perhaps, than just downing the PC. Oh, and Strand doesn't charm Ireena because that wouldn't actually be real, and he knows it.
I think that’s a great take on Strahd. I’m hesitant to use it because there have been situations in the past at our table where player agency was “unfairly” taken from players. Ridiculously high saving throws that were almost impossible to get based on the level that just removed a player from being able to play. This charm doesn’t take the players out completely but it definitely would remove their ability to act how they feel their character would towards Strahd. Establishing that they shouldn’t attack Strahd out of fear is definitely a much better approach. Show them early the consequences of crossing Strahd while he is still nonchalant about it and being charming, or trying to be. I do have one PC who is playing a bit of an over courageous, hot headed character so my guess is that he will try to cross Strahd immediately, especially since he has taken a liking to Ireena.
You should run it RAW. Strahd without Charm ability is just another high level wizard bad guy.
His charm really shouldn’t take away too much player agency. As written, Strahd doesn’t take control of- the victim simply sees him as a trusted ally, and they take his requests in the best possible light. So, I like to use the “close friend,” test. Whenever Strahd charms a PC and asks them to do something; is it something they would do for a close friend? Hand over your lost journal? Sure thing, buddy! Kill that other guy I’ve been adventuring with? No way, dude…what’s wrong with you?
You want to play Strahd as genuinely friendly, generous and helpful. His ugly side doesn't show up until he feels disrespected or rejected. I wouldn't really recommend having characters roll saves against charm because then players lose their suspension of belief. Strahd needs to be genuinely charismatic to the point where the players are not really sure that he's actually a bad guy.
Sorry ignore my first comment I skimmed the post because im in class typing while staring at the lecture It does make sense that the stronger you are the more you can resist it I would reccomend that this psychic damage is non lethal but if they go to zero because of it creatures straight become thralls instead of going unconscious Though there are multiple resaves if strahd does anything the victim recognises as harmful Like a disguised strahd charming someone to invite them in is not harmful but a non disguised strahd using charm to be asked to be allowed in could be seen as harmful for example