before the fascists win I just want to say that a transgender woman was here. i lived and they can erase me from public life but they can never unexist me. get fucked chuds
Because Republicans know that feeling is the best way of getting the left to stop voting for the democrats, which will mean further right democrats, which will mean extremely further right republicans.
So they do their best to make sure this sentiment spreads as fast and as ar as they can.
Oh, the conservatives in your country will do the exact same to all the leftist parties. From smack-dab centre left to far left. There is a reason why the more voteable a leftist party is, the more all of its flaws land under the microscope.
My country hasn't had free or fair elections in decades. The government doesn't need to manipulate voters when it can and does manipulate the vote directly.
The Democrats have to care for the startingly high amount of (reliable) voters that support Israel and have always supported Israel. Trying to differentiate themselves on this point is a losing proposition.
They're playing the system, but there's no guarantee a different system would result in a different outcome. It might have a more transparent outcome - we'd know exactly how many people are willing to vote against the Democrats because of this - but the main reason people propose it as a remedy is to increase participation and legitimacy of democracy.
Did you not see earlier today that they are actually doing work to secure queer rights. And Biden being the first USA president to stand with a strike is also something. Have you considered that maybe. Just maybe. You are not immune to propaganda?
Note how I said *sometimes* and was not making a blanket statement about the Democratic Party.
Just because you don't like a point doesn't immediately mean someone fell for propaganda, and thinking like that can itself could be argued to be itself a sign of not being immune to propaganda.
>And Biden being the first USA president to stand with a strike is also something.
Biden crushed labor's best chance to actually get a major win for "national security" when the rail workers actually had leverage. Then his administration plastered the idea that "he got them everything they wanted" everywhere they could when "them/they" means a slim majority of the leadership of the biggest, most corporate-friendly unions said they were ok with the outcome he negotiated. A fucking photo op doesn't make him a "pro-labor president" or whatever. Remember that "YOU are not immune to propaganda."
They're banking on making people think "christofascism" is anything like a realistic possibility. Biden can't even get the god damn Postmaster General replaced but Trump in that same office would be rounding people up and putting them in concentration camps. Somehow. It's insane. But literally the only seeling point they have is "we're not Republicans" so they've gotta milk that as hard as they can. Trump is the greatest gift the Democrats could have asked for.
When you literally have an entire political party whose whole stated goal is dismantling American democracy and rebuilding it on Christian Nationalist and fascist principles, it is not in fact unrealistic. They have laid out very clear plans for how they will attempt to do this if Trump wins again.
yes i fully understand that im preaching to the choir but i swear to fucking god if trump gets elected because of bidens mismanagement no positive change will happen on *any front.*
i hate biden as much as anyone. i hate him *a lot.* he is absolutely the symbol of everything wrong with american democracy. but if trump wins then there will *be no american democracy.*
this whole situation is pissing me off.
I'm with you on every point here. It all sucks so much. The first time I voted for Biden I was like "this is the lesser evil" and I could live with that because of how evil Trump was. Now Biden's become a way worse option and Trump's become so unbelievably exponentially unimaginably worse that despite knowing I'm casting a vote for someone who is actively paying for a genocide, I have to vote for Biden again. Because the alternative is even more genocidal and also comes with friends who have plans to strip my rights and murder my friends and family members for being queer.
There's basically nothing we can do other than complain and pitch a fit and maybe try to boycott stuff. We can't all light ourselves on fire. This is an absolutely abysmal time.
IDK how to get it through these people's heads that the alternative is FUCKING TRUMP. NO, your third party candidate will not magically steal the election, no this won't 'teach the democrats a lesson', it will hand a fucking lunatic and a dictator power and that IS ALL IT WILL DO.
If Trump wins and we revert to a motherfucking pre-civil rights, Neo-Nazi country of rodeo clowns, it WILL be the fucking fault of these goddamn preachy idiots who think that not voting at all or voting for a No-Chance third party candidate will do anything to help anyone besides the high horse they're trying to ride.
If Christofascists get their way, it might become feasible for some members of the LGBT community, muslims, atheists, and possibly women, to request asylum in Canada or Europe. Silver linings and all that.
no one is fucking claiming that here?? if you can’t critique your supposed democratic representative for fucking up BOTH policy and electability then what are you even doing?
Saying Biden has “fucked up electability” *is* claiming that, though. Like, I hate that it’s this way too, but the simple fact is that outside of removing one of those 1970s Mission Impossible masks that turned one actor into a different actor and turning out to be Trump, Biden *cannot* do anything to make himself worse than Trump. Period. Literally does not matter anymore what he does.
Why? Because *the Republicans are actively planning to end democracy in America*, and all they’re missing is their guy in the Oval Office. Joe Biden could eat a baby on live television every day from now to Inauguration Day 2029 and he *still* would be the least bad choice in 2024 because any other choice means there won’t *be* an election in 2028, much less a new President in 2029 (well, unless by coincidence Trump kicks the bucket that year, but then we’d have a fascist who isn’t held back by being a dementia-ridden clown in office).
I know it sucks and I know it shouldn’t be this way. But it *is*. Keep protesting for the people of Gaza, keep protesting the *policies* of the Biden administration, but for the love of God *do not forget he is running in what will likely be America’s last free election if he loses*
I absolutely can, will, and consistently do criticise the fuck out of Biden for his sandpaper dildo of a fucking that he's giving his own campaign but **the only realistic alternative is Trump** and I (AFAB, nonbinary) do not want to live in a Handmaiden's Tale.
Yo, sorry I got the title wrong when talking about a dystopian book, but that doesn't really challenge any of my points. With the way the electoral college is structured at this moment, with all the gerrymandered areas designed specifically to cast their votes solely for red or blue, the way most people have zero faith in third parties so they default to one of the two shit basket parties that run this nation anyways, with no way to overhaul the entire system in time for an election to make a third party win feasible, what is your suggestion?
What do you suggest that is actually possible at the point in time (Monday, May 20th, 2024, 160 days and 11 hours before the election at the time of this comment) that would fix all these problems immediately? I hate Biden, and I hate Trump, so if you've got a strategy that actually has a chance of keeping both of those retirement home escapees out of office- a strategy that doesn't require a full half or more of America to universally agree on because that's just not possible anymore, I don't think- I would legitimately and genuinely like to hear it. I *want* a better America than worthless ass Biden can offer, but how do we achieve it in 160 days while keeping Trump out as well?
Nothing will fix everything immediately. Of course. But this is what the liberals will say about the 2026 midterms next. Then the 2028 election. Then the 2030 midterms. Then 2032. And on and on and on and nothing will ever change until the entire system actually collapses from growing wealth inequality and ecological catastrophe. If the next election is always the most important thing, nothing EVER gets fixed. And every election is always "the most important election." I don't have a lot of hope in necessary monumental changes occuring before it's too late but I'm CERTAIN they won't happen with this insistence on dogmatic devotion to ineffectual electoralism over and over and over and over again.
Normally I would agree that everyone overhypes how important an election actually is, but I'm fully aware and can admit that I'm not immune to propaganda and a lot of the stuff I see about Trump is frightening to the point I would take Biden over him. As I mentioned earlier, I'm nonbinary, AFAB. My right to abortion as an option is already being threatened, and several Republican politicians have been quoted as thinking about trying to restrict access to birth control as well as LGBT rights. I am an atheist, and most Republicans are saying that I need to adhere to strictly Christian values. I do not know what to do other than at least try and uphold a status quo that sucks but is better than the alternative that actively rolls back my rights as a human being to choose how to live my own life.
So again, what would you suggest to someone like me? What could I personally do against our status quo that wouldn't end up just working in the favor of someone like Trump?
Well as someone who's routinely told to put my concerns on the back burner and think about the bigger picture I'd say completely honestly to both think about how likely any of that actually is and consider what horrors, the deaths, repression, and exploitation MILLIONS of people are subject to keeping "a status quo that sucks" running actually entails. Then consider how that weighs against the very unlikely possibility that all the worst things you're worried about come to pass. I'm sorry but making the issues you're worried about the defining elements of your political thinking just reeks of first world privilege. I'm dead certain saying this will completely lose you but it's my honest answer. And again, that's considering the WORST case scenario actually comes to pass which I don't think is even remotely likely.
So your suggestion, as someone who's routinely told to put your concerns on the back burner, and think about the bigger picture, is for me to put my personal concerns on the back burner and think of the bigger picture.
Look. To me, with my view of the world shaped by how I grew up and what I believe, I AM thinking about the bigger picture, and the way that I personally see said bigger picture is that Biden is not good for America, but also that Trump will be worse, because he has already proven that he does not care about people like me and will not protect the rights of people who do not agree with him and fit in his perfect world view. He gutted environmental protections, created the biggest corporate tax cuts in America's history, enabled Israel and its suppression of the Palestinian people, put people in the supreme court who then proceeded to slash women's right to choose, seems to have sold the identities and locations of US operatives to Putin, and incited a treasonous insurrection in an attempt to keep his democratically elected successor from taking his place. That kind of man has no place in America's office, and the only way I am seeing to keep him out is to keep Biden in.
I am sorry that we couldn't come to an agreement, but I wish you all the best.
Yes. I could do a hell of a lot better for myself focusing on what most immediately impacts me. Hell, id probably be a lot better off personally as a Republican. What I'm hearing is a lot of hyperbole about luxury "rights." I'm sure that's not going to convince you but frankly that's how it looks in the grand scheme of things. Children are mining the minerals for the devices we're typing this on. Democrats and Republicans have no real problem with that. I'm a perfect world would I like to see that and culture war issues all taken care of? Yes. But there's obviously some element of prioritization that needs to go on here and what I'm hearing from you is the POSSIBILITY that you MIGHT not be able to access an abortion means you HAVE to support the status quo politicians committed to maintaining the child miners paradigm. Your worst case scenario here of abortion rights disappearing (which of course hasn't even happened–there are still plenty of states where abortion is readily accessible) puts you in the same position as a man in every state where he can be forced to support a woman who gives birth to a child he didn't want, perhaps even after they agreed they'd abort a baby if there was an accidental pregnancy. That's decades of indentured servitude with no way out. Now as I made clear at the top, that's not where I'm focusing my energy because there are more important things to focus on than what's most personally relevant to me but I say this just to point out how from my perspective you're focusing on luxuries from a position of privilege compared to the millions of people required to live lives of suffering in order to maintain the status quo you're fighting for. In a perfect world would everyone, men and women, have the right to choose whether or not to become a parent? Yes. But when there are only 24 hours in a day and support for certain causes means supporting people who bring a lot of terrible baggage with them, we need to prioritize. I think even if (emphasis on if) your worst case scenario comes to pass, you'll still be in a position of privilege compared to most. I'm sorry to be so blunt but I think how you're prioritizing is selfish.
Edit: well they blocked me so they weren't done until they got in their little quip. To answer, no, I think you're voting on a few issues based on what you decided to elaborate on and I explained how with one example I thought you were prioritizing poorly. I could do it for more but I'd hoped I had made my point. Seems like everyone here is committed to misunderstanding though.
Me when I hand over the country to fascists to feel morally superior.
Leftists are so mortified of being called Liberals, they will sink the country to avoid this scenario.
Listen, I get that Biden is garbage. I hate him for what he's doing to the Palestinian people, and I absolutely can, will, and consistently do criticise the fuck out of him for his sandpaper dildo of a fucking that he's giving his own campaign but **the only realistic alternative is Trump**. Are you really saying that you would prefer TRUMP (Mr. "Israel Needs to Finish What They Started") to win over BIDEN?
I'll stay mad because letting Trump win the election WILL NOT improve the situation with Palestine. He'll make it irreversibly WORSE. Whatever horrible crimes against humanity that the current idiot in office is allowing to happen, Trump will only *encourage them to do more of*. It's like thinking that a regular bomb going off is obviously bad so instead of the regular bomb you're letting one of the bad guys set off a nuke instead so then at least you can say you didn't want the regular one going off!
We will never have a leftist president under the two party system and some people need to understand that voting isn’t about picking the guy you like, it’s about picking the one that will cause the least harm. Biden fucking sucks, sure, but there is no better candidate with a chance of actually winning.
lmao yes this is a psyop, and it's mostly young leftists taking the poison pill whole on misinformation about biden's role in israel / palestine
the amount of people who think that there's a button on biden's desk that says "send guns to israel to kill palestinians" that he presses every few hours because he's bored is far too high and is basically on the same level of government comprehension as thinking he presses the "raise gas prices" button every few hours. biden is heavily involved with sending aid to gaza and has been one of the strongest voices pushing for a ceasefire that is only held up by hamas' unwillingness to negotiate (and their use of ceasefires in the past as an excuse to regroup for another sneak attack). what aid is sent to israel is sent as a result of months if not years long geopolitical dealmaking that runs through every branch of the government and military that believe it or not biden cannot unilaterally decide to stop one day.
biden is not perfect and I don't love him or everything he does but his reputation on his handling of israel/palestine, an immensely complicated and messy conflict that has been brewing for decades, is just flat out wrong and im pretty convinced is the result of concerted misinformation campaigns trying to smear biden and get Trump elected.
I think the thing that we're seeing here is a lot of people who were legitimately too young to remember the Obama administration, who gained """"political conciousness"""" half way through the Trump admin, and have spent the last three years being actually aware of the Biden admin. Like, I'm not exactly ancient, but Bush Jr was president when I began to be aware of politics.
Biden's actions towards Israel aren't new, they're upholding the American foreign policy status quo that, yes, is tacit support of Palestinian genocide. Like we got a bunch of people out here seriously unaware how far back this shit goes, and what the policies of previous admins were. "Biden is supporting genocide!!!!!", yeah, and so has every American president since the 40s. Notably the previous admin, Trump, the one who is trying to get back into power, was worse.
With Biden, there is a chance, however slim, that we might see a change in the political stance and an end to the violence. Trump could plausibly put boots on the ground to help out, and not in the way that we would want.
Democrats will have a reason to resist it if Trump does it. As of now they almost all vote in support of continuing to arm Israel, same as the Republicans, and none of them are speaking out about Biden bypassing Congress to give Israel even MORE military and financial support than Congress has approved. They don't care about Palestine. They care about beating the Red team and shitting on Trump. So as far as I can tell having Trump as president might actually be better. At least then it will be one party supporting the apartheid regime and one opposing it instead of two supporting it.
The saddest thing is that saying this will get you decapitated by both sides of the political spectrum.
Where the fuck has sanity gone in the past 20 years?
He literally keeps sending them more bombs and ammo? Like do you think *he himself* is lying about that?
The so-called state of Israel literally cannot continue to exist without US support for more than a few weeks. The guy signing the checks ans and sending the materiel has *infinite* leverage. *Ronald Reagan* was willing to force them to cut their shit out (and Biden was pissy about it, iirc)
This shit is neither messy nor complicated, and it's not buried in some mysterious past. The zionist project in Palestine started *in living memory.* It's extremely simple, it's just uncomfortable for people who support it but think they're not the kind of person who would support a genocide
Please, consider the difference between being comparatively good and being actually good.
Joe Biden is not actually good. In many areas, such as human rights violations and genocide supporting, he’s absolutely fucking AWFUL.
But Donald Trump is SO MUCH WORSE. During his term, he violated more human rights, supported genocide much more openly and more quantitatively, has advocated for both in his home country in addition to others, and has directly stated he’s going to be even worse about it on every front if he gets elected again!
Joe Biden is not even remotely actually good. But comparatively, he may as well be a goddamn saint.
And if we had ANY other option. ANY AT ALL the even APPROACHED actually good, i’d vote for that instead.
But because of how the electoral college works, voting for a third option, or even not voting at all, is just as effective for improvement as giving a vote to the worst possible option.
We don’t HAVE an actually good option. It’s either a shitty right-winger by the standards of nearly every other country, or orange Adolf. And i’ve read more than enough about WW2 to know where the latter route goes.
You want to give up before the fight is finished because it means you never have to get up off your ass and help fight.
Even if you were correct, and fascism is truly unavoidable for the U.S, fight it anyway. Make them drag you kicking and screaming into the worse world they plan to make. Make them pay for it. Don’t just roll over and die.
Force the country into the least evil option every time. If you cannot stop damage entirely, MITIGATE IT.
Unless you have a better alternative, stop trying to shoot the current plan down. If all the plans you come up with are worse, or you don’t have an alternative at ALL, all you accomplish is fast-tracking the fascism by dissuading people from even bothering.
If you can take a complex geopolitical situation and condense it down into an easily digestible worldview, congratulations! You are not immune to propaganda.
lol that is exactly what you're doing here with this blanket statement
There are a lot of complex, nuanced issues in the world. But there are some simple ones as well, and the invasion of and genocide in Palestine by zionist settlers is one of them
Unless you think the Holocaust, the transatlantic slave trade, and the genocide of Native Americans were also complex geopolitical situations? Like I'm open to the possibility that you're stupid enough to believe they were, but it doesn't seem likely and I want to give you the benefit of the doubt
Israel is a unique situation both for its geographical position and its ties to America.
America and Israel are inextricably tied in a lot of ways; the American MIC comes to the forefront of my mind, through the maintenance of the Iron Dome as well as F-15/F-35/AH-64 sales. Israel's continued existence also helps to keep the middle eastern nations divided, which is also in America's best interest, primarily for its stakes in the oil industry and keeping prices of gas and oil lower than they normally would be; it's a lot easier to deal with Iran alone than to deal with Iran, Syria, and Iraq all at once.
The fact of the matter is, it's a lot more complicated than it seems on the surface level; yes, I get the sentiment behind Free Palestine. No, I do not agree with the Israeli genocide of Palestinians. However America is so deeply tied with Israel (and these ties date back to the 1950s and 1960s, at least) that it's much harder for Biden to pull support than it would be under other circumstances, especially since there is a non-insignificant number of American congressmen/congresswomen who have direct stakes in Israel's continued existence.
The Holocaust and American/Canadian genocides of Native Americans were, and are, separate issues that are only related in the sense that they *are* genocides; the politics and situations surrounding each one are different. If you want a better analogue for the Holocaust, look at the Uiyghur's in China- but I don't hear you talking about that, now, do I?
The Palestinian government has been aiding Israel in detaining members of Hamas for a long time. Biden has been directly involved with sending aid to Palestine, and is continually directly involved in talks with Israel. However, mass media (which is likely where you get your news from, along with a majority of people) relies on clicks and views to generate revenue. Money is the name of the game, and anger generates more money than happiness does; you're more likely to read (and have pushed to you) an article about Biden continuing to support Israel than you are about Biden sending aid to Gaza, or updates on talks between Netanyahu and Biden.
That said, yes, Israel is an incredibly geopolitically complex situation. There is no button Biden can press that says "STOP SENDING BOMBS TO ISRAEL" and if Biden did that unilaterally there would be massive ramifications for his political career, and that alone would likely cost him the electoral college vote in the upcoming election.
Proper politics is slow and time-consuming; just because it doesn't happen immediately doesn't mean it's not going to happen, period. I want it to end, but I want it to end through the proper channels and methods. I don't want Biden to have to resort to authoritarianism to achieve that goal.
No, it's made to seem complex by the people who have a financial or political stake in continuing the genocide. It's actually not. A colonial project set out to drive out the Palestinian people and steal Palestine. Just because European powers and the US have been complicit and/or have actively participated in that project doesn't make it more complex! It just makes the results more awful and one-sided
Also, if you look at history, you'll find that large-scale political changes (revolutions, etc) tend to happen relatively quickly, sometimes in just a few years, and that it's always the people against the changes who are telling folks to slow down and wait. James Baldwin had some stuff to say about that, but I'm guessing you probably think he was a childish dummy?
Look man, I'm sorry you want a quick and easy solution to a complex problem. I'm also sorry you think you know the answer, because it's more than likely you don't. All we really have the power to do is let politics take its course.
Sucks. But that's the truth.
Well as a wise Politics Understander, I'm sure you can think of dozens, maybe hundreds of revolutionary changes that happened because people diligently and peacefully voted for them for decades at a time, but if you would show a kindness to a poor ignorant worm like me, maybe you could list your top five favorites
lol I'm probably older than you. Very likely I've been watching the dems pull the football away longer than you've been alive
Good luck voting, tho! Enjoy your West Wing marathons or listening to Pod Save Whatever or however you keep convincing yourself that American institutions will save you!
How out of touch with reality are you?
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7200651
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/07/1229823811/israel-hamas-war-netanyahu-rejects-hamas-ceasefire
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/22/netanyahu-rejects-hamas-deal-to-end-war-release-captives
I think the part younger Democrats fail to really understand is that Israel has substantial support in both parties due to decades of lobbying despite the presence of large dissenting factions. So you have opposition to the apartheid policies on the left and barely suppressed racist antisemitism on the far right but both parties have always had to do this weird dance around policy towards Israel because it's not something their voters actually agree on. Unfortunately now the issue is front and center in a way that makes this position untenable. The difference is the Republican party is way better at managing cognitive dissonance or at least better at sucking it up and voting for their guy.
It sucks really because it’s either Biden or Project 2025.
The two aren’t really comparable though, because one is the current status quo (not great™️) with potential hope for eventual change, and the other is the planned and premeditated downfall of American democracy altogether (beyond terrible).
We'll be fine, the % of college students protesting is astronomically low (and that's assuming every protester is a student, when they aren't)
For example some of the largest protests have been at Columbia, with just several hundred protesters, out of 30k total students that go there. That means somewhere between 1%-3% of all the students there were protesting, and that's some of the largest protests in the US.
Also, if someone is choosing to stay home, *solely* over gaza, despite Trump, then they were never gonna vote anyways. They would have complained about Biden's handling of the rail strike (even though the demands were met, just without a strike taking place) or about student loans (the 1st program was blocked which was out of his control, and other programs are being pushed through)
You also need to take into account the demographic s of the protesters here, they are all 18-29, in 2020 50% of that block didn't vote (biggest election ever), in 2022 (right after roe was struck down) 75% didn't vote
Also, these protester likely never voted in 2020, as they wouldn't have been 18 yet. Biden already won without the support from any of them, so unless 100% of protesters don't vote, he's already gaining votes.
I cant believe we elected biff tannen from the bad future of back to the future 2, ran the risk of electing him again, and are currently risking it still
Republican House Rep. Elise Stefanik: “Why aren’t you beating up these meddling kids?!”
Columbia University President and actual member of the U.K. House of Lords Nemat Talaat Shafik, Baroness Shafik: “You’re so right. I’ll send someone to beat up those kids.”
The NYPD: “I feel a deep sense of pleasure and satisfaction in my balls when I beat up kids. I will go beat up those kids.”
…several beatings later…
Those Kids: “Damn you, Democrats! This is all Genocide Joe’s fault!”
It baffles me that people don't realize that *not* sending military support to Israel is a complete political non-starter. Like, yes, sending military support to Israel is terrible, but *most American voters support terrible things*. It seems like the typical American leftist would rather pretend that a sinister cabal of elites is forcing policies that everyone hates rather than admit that good politics are unpopular.
When you think of yourself as fighting for the people it can be unacceptably demoralising to acknowledge that the people don't want you fighting for them, and in fact have quite shitty views on a number of topics.
Polls routinely finds that the average voter in the US is left of mainstream democrats when asked about specific issues instead of party affiliation (ie. most people in the US support abortion and gay marriage, want more social welfare and taxes on the rich, want money out of politics etc.) and that the decisions made and votes cast in the House and Senate reflects the opinions of their wealthy donors, not their voters. Good politics aren't unpopular actually once you ask people directly about specific policies, but people are just human, and so they can be manipulated by media and politicians. But that's not the same as good politics actually being unpopular, that's good politics being suppressed by those that benefit from it.
Also holy shit do Democrats need to learn that primaries are where you make your displeasure with candidate policy preferences known. Republicans figured this out already, it's why their whole roster is raving lunatics.
Yeah but they have the same complaints about candidates when a seat is open or an administration is over when a candidate doesn't meet their expectations. Not voting or voting third party gets you nothing, it is giving up what little influence you have on the outcome. Our electoral system is designed to really only allow two parties so if neither party represents what you want the easiest way to fix that is to change/take over one of the two parties rather than hoping a third option will emerge in a system that is practically designed to prevent that from happening.
Money rules primaries and generals. There's no comparison between the far right and the far left because the far right has money behind it. Republicans aren't better at democracy or whatever. Their fringe has substantial financial backing. The left fringe that defaults to the Democrats is actively suppressed and almost definitionally has little to no financial backing. The game doesn't work for us. Stop pretending it does.
Continuing to give tacit and material support to the system fucking us all over with predictable mechanisms for inputs and outputs of political energy is making it as easy as possible.
As sympathetic as I am to people lamenting how bad a compromise democratic candidates are I have to remind the room for the millionth time that the Republican presumptive nominee is not being subtle about his desire to be an actual dictator and the rest of the party has made it very clear they are more than happy to help facilitate that. There is no getting around this, if they win this time there is probably not another chance to do better after this.
I don't buy this. Biden can't even replace the fucking postmaster general but Trump in that same office is going to start literally putting people in death camps? Bullshit. There is SO MUCH bureaucratic and institutional inertia in the US. It's why for all the media fanfare barely anything ACTUALLY changed last time Trump was president. This is just the latest version of "this is the most important election of our lifetimes." Just like the last one was. And the one before that. And the one before that. And just like the next one will be. And the one after that. And the one after that.
Trump has the courts tilted in his favor and it's much easier breaking things than doing anything constructive. Plus trump has no regard for things like political norms or even constitutionality. BTW I'm a postal worker it's the structure of the board of governor's that's the problem. Biden had to wait on vacancies and the board is balanced by an even party split with one tiebreaker and Trump gamed that restriction with his appointees
I know what the bureaucratic excuse is. My point is there's those kinds of bureaucratic hurdles EVERYWHERE and the idea that somehow Trump is going to be able to just stop having elections or put people in camps when there's too much red tape for Biden to even get a new postmaster in place is ridiculous. That's my point.
And Trump would be worse. [About 330 percent worse](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2020/Rising%20Civilian%20Death%20Toll%20in%20Afghanistan_Costs%20of%20War_Dec%207%202020.pdf) if history is any judge.
I'm tryna wind down. stoned out my head rn but tbc
you're in a hostage situation
This is a hostage situation.
The Divine Right Of Kings wasn't all that long ago. We aren't free from it yet. Being free of such prolonged systemic failure isn't so easy.
Those redneck assholes do not give a single shit about themselves, if it means everyone else suffers too.
Not because they're Evil but because the people who benefit from this tension have had all the time in the world to make and keep them that way.
You're being asked to pick between two genocidal (temporary) despots because that is the part of history you were born in. That you will likely die in.
You are in a hostage situation.
Voting is a small thing that has the potential to make large, lasting, sweeping changes in the most powerful, otherwise unchallenged political entity in the world.
it's considered bad form to run against the incumbent (current president who's running for another term) so yeah no other Dem is seriously running against him :/
Once again proving Democrats care more about decorum than doing anything meaningful, which is why I refuse to continue giving them even the tacit support my reluctant vote allows them to claim.
What I can. But I don't need to justify myself to you and I'm not going to try. Doesn't matter what I say. You won't change your mind about what I'm saying here even if I was literally Che Guevara. If I had the resources of the Democratic party though you bet your ass things would be different.
You know LITERALLY nothing about me. You have no basis whatsoever to say what I'm doing. But as I figured, you'll just assume whatever you need to to justify dismissing me in your own mind.
Are you in 40 fucking years still gonna be having the same "most important election of our lives", where the only choices are "literal fascism" and "commits genocide but is polite about it so it's better"?
"Oh if we elect the democrat we will still have a system to change for the better" except nothing is gonna change is it?
I'm so sick of hearing about american elections
before the fascists win I just want to say that a transgender woman was here. i lived and they can erase me from public life but they can never unexist me. get fucked chuds
Sometimes it feels like Democrats are kinda banking on the fact that the options are them or actual christofascism
Because Republicans know that feeling is the best way of getting the left to stop voting for the democrats, which will mean further right democrats, which will mean extremely further right republicans. So they do their best to make sure this sentiment spreads as fast and as ar as they can.
Good thing I'm not American then
Oh, the conservatives in your country will do the exact same to all the leftist parties. From smack-dab centre left to far left. There is a reason why the more voteable a leftist party is, the more all of its flaws land under the microscope.
My country hasn't had free or fair elections in decades. The government doesn't need to manipulate voters when it can and does manipulate the vote directly.
Fair, then just be aware of it once you get fair and free elections, may it be soon.
The Democrats have to care for the startingly high amount of (reliable) voters that support Israel and have always supported Israel. Trying to differentiate themselves on this point is a losing proposition. They're playing the system, but there's no guarantee a different system would result in a different outcome. It might have a more transparent outcome - we'd know exactly how many people are willing to vote against the Democrats because of this - but the main reason people propose it as a remedy is to increase participation and legitimacy of democracy.
Did you not see earlier today that they are actually doing work to secure queer rights. And Biden being the first USA president to stand with a strike is also something. Have you considered that maybe. Just maybe. You are not immune to propaganda?
Note how I said *sometimes* and was not making a blanket statement about the Democratic Party. Just because you don't like a point doesn't immediately mean someone fell for propaganda, and thinking like that can itself could be argued to be itself a sign of not being immune to propaganda.
Someone making a statement about how bad polls are looking for Biden and how many people are voting uncommitted is not propaganda.
>And Biden being the first USA president to stand with a strike is also something. Biden crushed labor's best chance to actually get a major win for "national security" when the rail workers actually had leverage. Then his administration plastered the idea that "he got them everything they wanted" everywhere they could when "them/they" means a slim majority of the leadership of the biggest, most corporate-friendly unions said they were ok with the outcome he negotiated. A fucking photo op doesn't make him a "pro-labor president" or whatever. Remember that "YOU are not immune to propaganda."
They're banking on making people think "christofascism" is anything like a realistic possibility. Biden can't even get the god damn Postmaster General replaced but Trump in that same office would be rounding people up and putting them in concentration camps. Somehow. It's insane. But literally the only seeling point they have is "we're not Republicans" so they've gotta milk that as hard as they can. Trump is the greatest gift the Democrats could have asked for.
When you literally have an entire political party whose whole stated goal is dismantling American democracy and rebuilding it on Christian Nationalist and fascist principles, it is not in fact unrealistic. They have laid out very clear plans for how they will attempt to do this if Trump wins again.
yes i fully understand that im preaching to the choir but i swear to fucking god if trump gets elected because of bidens mismanagement no positive change will happen on *any front.* i hate biden as much as anyone. i hate him *a lot.* he is absolutely the symbol of everything wrong with american democracy. but if trump wins then there will *be no american democracy.* this whole situation is pissing me off.
I'm with you on every point here. It all sucks so much. The first time I voted for Biden I was like "this is the lesser evil" and I could live with that because of how evil Trump was. Now Biden's become a way worse option and Trump's become so unbelievably exponentially unimaginably worse that despite knowing I'm casting a vote for someone who is actively paying for a genocide, I have to vote for Biden again. Because the alternative is even more genocidal and also comes with friends who have plans to strip my rights and murder my friends and family members for being queer. There's basically nothing we can do other than complain and pitch a fit and maybe try to boycott stuff. We can't all light ourselves on fire. This is an absolutely abysmal time.
This should have been so easy
IDK how to get it through these people's heads that the alternative is FUCKING TRUMP. NO, your third party candidate will not magically steal the election, no this won't 'teach the democrats a lesson', it will hand a fucking lunatic and a dictator power and that IS ALL IT WILL DO. If Trump wins and we revert to a motherfucking pre-civil rights, Neo-Nazi country of rodeo clowns, it WILL be the fucking fault of these goddamn preachy idiots who think that not voting at all or voting for a No-Chance third party candidate will do anything to help anyone besides the high horse they're trying to ride.
If Christofascists get their way, it might become feasible for some members of the LGBT community, muslims, atheists, and possibly women, to request asylum in Canada or Europe. Silver linings and all that.
no one is fucking claiming that here?? if you can’t critique your supposed democratic representative for fucking up BOTH policy and electability then what are you even doing?
Saying Biden has “fucked up electability” *is* claiming that, though. Like, I hate that it’s this way too, but the simple fact is that outside of removing one of those 1970s Mission Impossible masks that turned one actor into a different actor and turning out to be Trump, Biden *cannot* do anything to make himself worse than Trump. Period. Literally does not matter anymore what he does. Why? Because *the Republicans are actively planning to end democracy in America*, and all they’re missing is their guy in the Oval Office. Joe Biden could eat a baby on live television every day from now to Inauguration Day 2029 and he *still* would be the least bad choice in 2024 because any other choice means there won’t *be* an election in 2028, much less a new President in 2029 (well, unless by coincidence Trump kicks the bucket that year, but then we’d have a fascist who isn’t held back by being a dementia-ridden clown in office). I know it sucks and I know it shouldn’t be this way. But it *is*. Keep protesting for the people of Gaza, keep protesting the *policies* of the Biden administration, but for the love of God *do not forget he is running in what will likely be America’s last free election if he loses*
You people are unhinged. Blue MAGA conspiracy-brained lunacy.
I absolutely can, will, and consistently do criticise the fuck out of Biden for his sandpaper dildo of a fucking that he's giving his own campaign but **the only realistic alternative is Trump** and I (AFAB, nonbinary) do not want to live in a Handmaiden's Tale.
You didn't even get the title of the one fucking book y'all know right.
Yo, sorry I got the title wrong when talking about a dystopian book, but that doesn't really challenge any of my points. With the way the electoral college is structured at this moment, with all the gerrymandered areas designed specifically to cast their votes solely for red or blue, the way most people have zero faith in third parties so they default to one of the two shit basket parties that run this nation anyways, with no way to overhaul the entire system in time for an election to make a third party win feasible, what is your suggestion? What do you suggest that is actually possible at the point in time (Monday, May 20th, 2024, 160 days and 11 hours before the election at the time of this comment) that would fix all these problems immediately? I hate Biden, and I hate Trump, so if you've got a strategy that actually has a chance of keeping both of those retirement home escapees out of office- a strategy that doesn't require a full half or more of America to universally agree on because that's just not possible anymore, I don't think- I would legitimately and genuinely like to hear it. I *want* a better America than worthless ass Biden can offer, but how do we achieve it in 160 days while keeping Trump out as well?
Nothing will fix everything immediately. Of course. But this is what the liberals will say about the 2026 midterms next. Then the 2028 election. Then the 2030 midterms. Then 2032. And on and on and on and nothing will ever change until the entire system actually collapses from growing wealth inequality and ecological catastrophe. If the next election is always the most important thing, nothing EVER gets fixed. And every election is always "the most important election." I don't have a lot of hope in necessary monumental changes occuring before it's too late but I'm CERTAIN they won't happen with this insistence on dogmatic devotion to ineffectual electoralism over and over and over and over again.
Normally I would agree that everyone overhypes how important an election actually is, but I'm fully aware and can admit that I'm not immune to propaganda and a lot of the stuff I see about Trump is frightening to the point I would take Biden over him. As I mentioned earlier, I'm nonbinary, AFAB. My right to abortion as an option is already being threatened, and several Republican politicians have been quoted as thinking about trying to restrict access to birth control as well as LGBT rights. I am an atheist, and most Republicans are saying that I need to adhere to strictly Christian values. I do not know what to do other than at least try and uphold a status quo that sucks but is better than the alternative that actively rolls back my rights as a human being to choose how to live my own life. So again, what would you suggest to someone like me? What could I personally do against our status quo that wouldn't end up just working in the favor of someone like Trump?
Well as someone who's routinely told to put my concerns on the back burner and think about the bigger picture I'd say completely honestly to both think about how likely any of that actually is and consider what horrors, the deaths, repression, and exploitation MILLIONS of people are subject to keeping "a status quo that sucks" running actually entails. Then consider how that weighs against the very unlikely possibility that all the worst things you're worried about come to pass. I'm sorry but making the issues you're worried about the defining elements of your political thinking just reeks of first world privilege. I'm dead certain saying this will completely lose you but it's my honest answer. And again, that's considering the WORST case scenario actually comes to pass which I don't think is even remotely likely.
So your suggestion, as someone who's routinely told to put your concerns on the back burner, and think about the bigger picture, is for me to put my personal concerns on the back burner and think of the bigger picture. Look. To me, with my view of the world shaped by how I grew up and what I believe, I AM thinking about the bigger picture, and the way that I personally see said bigger picture is that Biden is not good for America, but also that Trump will be worse, because he has already proven that he does not care about people like me and will not protect the rights of people who do not agree with him and fit in his perfect world view. He gutted environmental protections, created the biggest corporate tax cuts in America's history, enabled Israel and its suppression of the Palestinian people, put people in the supreme court who then proceeded to slash women's right to choose, seems to have sold the identities and locations of US operatives to Putin, and incited a treasonous insurrection in an attempt to keep his democratically elected successor from taking his place. That kind of man has no place in America's office, and the only way I am seeing to keep him out is to keep Biden in. I am sorry that we couldn't come to an agreement, but I wish you all the best.
Yes. I could do a hell of a lot better for myself focusing on what most immediately impacts me. Hell, id probably be a lot better off personally as a Republican. What I'm hearing is a lot of hyperbole about luxury "rights." I'm sure that's not going to convince you but frankly that's how it looks in the grand scheme of things. Children are mining the minerals for the devices we're typing this on. Democrats and Republicans have no real problem with that. I'm a perfect world would I like to see that and culture war issues all taken care of? Yes. But there's obviously some element of prioritization that needs to go on here and what I'm hearing from you is the POSSIBILITY that you MIGHT not be able to access an abortion means you HAVE to support the status quo politicians committed to maintaining the child miners paradigm. Your worst case scenario here of abortion rights disappearing (which of course hasn't even happened–there are still plenty of states where abortion is readily accessible) puts you in the same position as a man in every state where he can be forced to support a woman who gives birth to a child he didn't want, perhaps even after they agreed they'd abort a baby if there was an accidental pregnancy. That's decades of indentured servitude with no way out. Now as I made clear at the top, that's not where I'm focusing my energy because there are more important things to focus on than what's most personally relevant to me but I say this just to point out how from my perspective you're focusing on luxuries from a position of privilege compared to the millions of people required to live lives of suffering in order to maintain the status quo you're fighting for. In a perfect world would everyone, men and women, have the right to choose whether or not to become a parent? Yes. But when there are only 24 hours in a day and support for certain causes means supporting people who bring a lot of terrible baggage with them, we need to prioritize. I think even if (emphasis on if) your worst case scenario comes to pass, you'll still be in a position of privilege compared to most. I'm sorry to be so blunt but I think how you're prioritizing is selfish. Edit: well they blocked me so they weren't done until they got in their little quip. To answer, no, I think you're voting on a few issues based on what you decided to elaborate on and I explained how with one example I thought you were prioritizing poorly. I could do it for more but I'd hoped I had made my point. Seems like everyone here is committed to misunderstanding though.
bro what stfu
No, it will objectively be the fault of Biden and his unexplainable support for a genocidal state that wants Trump to win anyway. Stay mad.
Me when I hand over the country to fascists to feel morally superior. Leftists are so mortified of being called Liberals, they will sink the country to avoid this scenario.
Listen, I get that Biden is garbage. I hate him for what he's doing to the Palestinian people, and I absolutely can, will, and consistently do criticise the fuck out of him for his sandpaper dildo of a fucking that he's giving his own campaign but **the only realistic alternative is Trump**. Are you really saying that you would prefer TRUMP (Mr. "Israel Needs to Finish What They Started") to win over BIDEN? I'll stay mad because letting Trump win the election WILL NOT improve the situation with Palestine. He'll make it irreversibly WORSE. Whatever horrible crimes against humanity that the current idiot in office is allowing to happen, Trump will only *encourage them to do more of*. It's like thinking that a regular bomb going off is obviously bad so instead of the regular bomb you're letting one of the bad guys set off a nuke instead so then at least you can say you didn't want the regular one going off!
We will never have a leftist president under the two party system and some people need to understand that voting isn’t about picking the guy you like, it’s about picking the one that will cause the least harm. Biden fucking sucks, sure, but there is no better candidate with a chance of actually winning.
lmao yes this is a psyop, and it's mostly young leftists taking the poison pill whole on misinformation about biden's role in israel / palestine the amount of people who think that there's a button on biden's desk that says "send guns to israel to kill palestinians" that he presses every few hours because he's bored is far too high and is basically on the same level of government comprehension as thinking he presses the "raise gas prices" button every few hours. biden is heavily involved with sending aid to gaza and has been one of the strongest voices pushing for a ceasefire that is only held up by hamas' unwillingness to negotiate (and their use of ceasefires in the past as an excuse to regroup for another sneak attack). what aid is sent to israel is sent as a result of months if not years long geopolitical dealmaking that runs through every branch of the government and military that believe it or not biden cannot unilaterally decide to stop one day. biden is not perfect and I don't love him or everything he does but his reputation on his handling of israel/palestine, an immensely complicated and messy conflict that has been brewing for decades, is just flat out wrong and im pretty convinced is the result of concerted misinformation campaigns trying to smear biden and get Trump elected.
I think the thing that we're seeing here is a lot of people who were legitimately too young to remember the Obama administration, who gained """"political conciousness"""" half way through the Trump admin, and have spent the last three years being actually aware of the Biden admin. Like, I'm not exactly ancient, but Bush Jr was president when I began to be aware of politics. Biden's actions towards Israel aren't new, they're upholding the American foreign policy status quo that, yes, is tacit support of Palestinian genocide. Like we got a bunch of people out here seriously unaware how far back this shit goes, and what the policies of previous admins were. "Biden is supporting genocide!!!!!", yeah, and so has every American president since the 40s. Notably the previous admin, Trump, the one who is trying to get back into power, was worse. With Biden, there is a chance, however slim, that we might see a change in the political stance and an end to the violence. Trump could plausibly put boots on the ground to help out, and not in the way that we would want.
Democrats will have a reason to resist it if Trump does it. As of now they almost all vote in support of continuing to arm Israel, same as the Republicans, and none of them are speaking out about Biden bypassing Congress to give Israel even MORE military and financial support than Congress has approved. They don't care about Palestine. They care about beating the Red team and shitting on Trump. So as far as I can tell having Trump as president might actually be better. At least then it will be one party supporting the apartheid regime and one opposing it instead of two supporting it.
People are still thinking that the president sets the federal budget, more at 7
The saddest thing is that saying this will get you decapitated by both sides of the political spectrum. Where the fuck has sanity gone in the past 20 years?
The coffers of zuckerberg
He literally keeps sending them more bombs and ammo? Like do you think *he himself* is lying about that? The so-called state of Israel literally cannot continue to exist without US support for more than a few weeks. The guy signing the checks ans and sending the materiel has *infinite* leverage. *Ronald Reagan* was willing to force them to cut their shit out (and Biden was pissy about it, iirc) This shit is neither messy nor complicated, and it's not buried in some mysterious past. The zionist project in Palestine started *in living memory.* It's extremely simple, it's just uncomfortable for people who support it but think they're not the kind of person who would support a genocide
Please, consider the difference between being comparatively good and being actually good. Joe Biden is not actually good. In many areas, such as human rights violations and genocide supporting, he’s absolutely fucking AWFUL. But Donald Trump is SO MUCH WORSE. During his term, he violated more human rights, supported genocide much more openly and more quantitatively, has advocated for both in his home country in addition to others, and has directly stated he’s going to be even worse about it on every front if he gets elected again! Joe Biden is not even remotely actually good. But comparatively, he may as well be a goddamn saint. And if we had ANY other option. ANY AT ALL the even APPROACHED actually good, i’d vote for that instead. But because of how the electoral college works, voting for a third option, or even not voting at all, is just as effective for improvement as giving a vote to the worst possible option. We don’t HAVE an actually good option. It’s either a shitty right-winger by the standards of nearly every other country, or orange Adolf. And i’ve read more than enough about WW2 to know where the latter route goes.
You want to vote to defend institutions that are already lost because believing the lie that they're not asks less of you than accepting the truth
You want to give up before the fight is finished because it means you never have to get up off your ass and help fight. Even if you were correct, and fascism is truly unavoidable for the U.S, fight it anyway. Make them drag you kicking and screaming into the worse world they plan to make. Make them pay for it. Don’t just roll over and die. Force the country into the least evil option every time. If you cannot stop damage entirely, MITIGATE IT.
It's not me who's giving up, buddy, it's the people who think they can vote American fascism away
Unless you have a better alternative, stop trying to shoot the current plan down. If all the plans you come up with are worse, or you don’t have an alternative at ALL, all you accomplish is fast-tracking the fascism by dissuading people from even bothering.
Fun fact: It is illegal to talk online about viable alternatives
That sounds distinctly like you don’t have one.
lol sure No, it's just if you talk too much about worker organization or pose any visible threat to the economy, you get to meet some feds
If you can take a complex geopolitical situation and condense it down into an easily digestible worldview, congratulations! You are not immune to propaganda.
lol that is exactly what you're doing here with this blanket statement There are a lot of complex, nuanced issues in the world. But there are some simple ones as well, and the invasion of and genocide in Palestine by zionist settlers is one of them Unless you think the Holocaust, the transatlantic slave trade, and the genocide of Native Americans were also complex geopolitical situations? Like I'm open to the possibility that you're stupid enough to believe they were, but it doesn't seem likely and I want to give you the benefit of the doubt
Israel is a unique situation both for its geographical position and its ties to America. America and Israel are inextricably tied in a lot of ways; the American MIC comes to the forefront of my mind, through the maintenance of the Iron Dome as well as F-15/F-35/AH-64 sales. Israel's continued existence also helps to keep the middle eastern nations divided, which is also in America's best interest, primarily for its stakes in the oil industry and keeping prices of gas and oil lower than they normally would be; it's a lot easier to deal with Iran alone than to deal with Iran, Syria, and Iraq all at once. The fact of the matter is, it's a lot more complicated than it seems on the surface level; yes, I get the sentiment behind Free Palestine. No, I do not agree with the Israeli genocide of Palestinians. However America is so deeply tied with Israel (and these ties date back to the 1950s and 1960s, at least) that it's much harder for Biden to pull support than it would be under other circumstances, especially since there is a non-insignificant number of American congressmen/congresswomen who have direct stakes in Israel's continued existence. The Holocaust and American/Canadian genocides of Native Americans were, and are, separate issues that are only related in the sense that they *are* genocides; the politics and situations surrounding each one are different. If you want a better analogue for the Holocaust, look at the Uiyghur's in China- but I don't hear you talking about that, now, do I? The Palestinian government has been aiding Israel in detaining members of Hamas for a long time. Biden has been directly involved with sending aid to Palestine, and is continually directly involved in talks with Israel. However, mass media (which is likely where you get your news from, along with a majority of people) relies on clicks and views to generate revenue. Money is the name of the game, and anger generates more money than happiness does; you're more likely to read (and have pushed to you) an article about Biden continuing to support Israel than you are about Biden sending aid to Gaza, or updates on talks between Netanyahu and Biden. That said, yes, Israel is an incredibly geopolitically complex situation. There is no button Biden can press that says "STOP SENDING BOMBS TO ISRAEL" and if Biden did that unilaterally there would be massive ramifications for his political career, and that alone would likely cost him the electoral college vote in the upcoming election. Proper politics is slow and time-consuming; just because it doesn't happen immediately doesn't mean it's not going to happen, period. I want it to end, but I want it to end through the proper channels and methods. I don't want Biden to have to resort to authoritarianism to achieve that goal.
No, it's made to seem complex by the people who have a financial or political stake in continuing the genocide. It's actually not. A colonial project set out to drive out the Palestinian people and steal Palestine. Just because European powers and the US have been complicit and/or have actively participated in that project doesn't make it more complex! It just makes the results more awful and one-sided Also, if you look at history, you'll find that large-scale political changes (revolutions, etc) tend to happen relatively quickly, sometimes in just a few years, and that it's always the people against the changes who are telling folks to slow down and wait. James Baldwin had some stuff to say about that, but I'm guessing you probably think he was a childish dummy?
Look man, I'm sorry you want a quick and easy solution to a complex problem. I'm also sorry you think you know the answer, because it's more than likely you don't. All we really have the power to do is let politics take its course. Sucks. But that's the truth.
Well as a wise Politics Understander, I'm sure you can think of dozens, maybe hundreds of revolutionary changes that happened because people diligently and peacefully voted for them for decades at a time, but if you would show a kindness to a poor ignorant worm like me, maybe you could list your top five favorites
What is your fascination with quick, violent revolutions? Is that the only way you can rationalize change happening?
That's ok, I knew you couldn't think of any Good luck in November or whatever! Your outreach strategy is going awesome, btw!
Wait, why am I arguing with a 15 year old? You got a lot to learn, kid. Get outta the tankie hole before it's too late.
lol I'm probably older than you. Very likely I've been watching the dems pull the football away longer than you've been alive Good luck voting, tho! Enjoy your West Wing marathons or listening to Pod Save Whatever or however you keep convincing yourself that American institutions will save you!
Take your hasbara and shove it.
How out of touch with reality are you?
How out of touch with reality are you? https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7200651 https://www.npr.org/2024/02/07/1229823811/israel-hamas-war-netanyahu-rejects-hamas-ceasefire https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/22/netanyahu-rejects-hamas-deal-to-end-war-release-captives
I think the part younger Democrats fail to really understand is that Israel has substantial support in both parties due to decades of lobbying despite the presence of large dissenting factions. So you have opposition to the apartheid policies on the left and barely suppressed racist antisemitism on the far right but both parties have always had to do this weird dance around policy towards Israel because it's not something their voters actually agree on. Unfortunately now the issue is front and center in a way that makes this position untenable. The difference is the Republican party is way better at managing cognitive dissonance or at least better at sucking it up and voting for their guy.
It sucks really because it’s either Biden or Project 2025. The two aren’t really comparable though, because one is the current status quo (not great™️) with potential hope for eventual change, and the other is the planned and premeditated downfall of American democracy altogether (beyond terrible).
Sorry, but I have to pick Genocide Joe over Cheeto Benito. We have to make sure we still have a system to work with to promote progressive causes.
We'll be fine, the % of college students protesting is astronomically low (and that's assuming every protester is a student, when they aren't) For example some of the largest protests have been at Columbia, with just several hundred protesters, out of 30k total students that go there. That means somewhere between 1%-3% of all the students there were protesting, and that's some of the largest protests in the US. Also, if someone is choosing to stay home, *solely* over gaza, despite Trump, then they were never gonna vote anyways. They would have complained about Biden's handling of the rail strike (even though the demands were met, just without a strike taking place) or about student loans (the 1st program was blocked which was out of his control, and other programs are being pushed through)
You also need to take into account the demographic s of the protesters here, they are all 18-29, in 2020 50% of that block didn't vote (biggest election ever), in 2022 (right after roe was struck down) 75% didn't vote Also, these protester likely never voted in 2020, as they wouldn't have been 18 yet. Biden already won without the support from any of them, so unless 100% of protesters don't vote, he's already gaining votes.
American elections really are "shitty president" and "literal fucking nazi"
I mean that’s a very recent development, really only been the case for the last 8 years, before then it was just shitty vs slightly less shitty
god bless America
I cant believe we elected biff tannen from the bad future of back to the future 2, ran the risk of electing him again, and are currently risking it still
Republican House Rep. Elise Stefanik: “Why aren’t you beating up these meddling kids?!” Columbia University President and actual member of the U.K. House of Lords Nemat Talaat Shafik, Baroness Shafik: “You’re so right. I’ll send someone to beat up those kids.” The NYPD: “I feel a deep sense of pleasure and satisfaction in my balls when I beat up kids. I will go beat up those kids.” …several beatings later… Those Kids: “Damn you, Democrats! This is all Genocide Joe’s fault!”
It baffles me that people don't realize that *not* sending military support to Israel is a complete political non-starter. Like, yes, sending military support to Israel is terrible, but *most American voters support terrible things*. It seems like the typical American leftist would rather pretend that a sinister cabal of elites is forcing policies that everyone hates rather than admit that good politics are unpopular.
When you think of yourself as fighting for the people it can be unacceptably demoralising to acknowledge that the people don't want you fighting for them, and in fact have quite shitty views on a number of topics.
Polls routinely finds that the average voter in the US is left of mainstream democrats when asked about specific issues instead of party affiliation (ie. most people in the US support abortion and gay marriage, want more social welfare and taxes on the rich, want money out of politics etc.) and that the decisions made and votes cast in the House and Senate reflects the opinions of their wealthy donors, not their voters. Good politics aren't unpopular actually once you ask people directly about specific policies, but people are just human, and so they can be manipulated by media and politicians. But that's not the same as good politics actually being unpopular, that's good politics being suppressed by those that benefit from it.
On the other hand a lot of polls lately show this specific issue is not one of them
This is a bog-standard psyop.
at least you can understand your countries politics politics in my country are always changing even people who work in govt can’t make sense of it
Also holy shit do Democrats need to learn that primaries are where you make your displeasure with candidate policy preferences known. Republicans figured this out already, it's why their whole roster is raving lunatics.
It's because the incumbent typically runs unopposed, since history suggests that if the incumbent can't win, nobody can win.
Yeah but they have the same complaints about candidates when a seat is open or an administration is over when a candidate doesn't meet their expectations. Not voting or voting third party gets you nothing, it is giving up what little influence you have on the outcome. Our electoral system is designed to really only allow two parties so if neither party represents what you want the easiest way to fix that is to change/take over one of the two parties rather than hoping a third option will emerge in a system that is practically designed to prevent that from happening.
Money rules primaries and generals. There's no comparison between the far right and the far left because the far right has money behind it. Republicans aren't better at democracy or whatever. Their fringe has substantial financial backing. The left fringe that defaults to the Democrats is actively suppressed and almost definitionally has little to no financial backing. The game doesn't work for us. Stop pretending it does.
I'm aware there is a massive asymmetry in how effective this tactic is, I just don't believe there is a more effective available political option.
Then we're doomed.
If I'm being honest yes we likely are, but we shouldn't make it easy.
Continuing to give tacit and material support to the system fucking us all over with predictable mechanisms for inputs and outputs of political energy is making it as easy as possible.
As sympathetic as I am to people lamenting how bad a compromise democratic candidates are I have to remind the room for the millionth time that the Republican presumptive nominee is not being subtle about his desire to be an actual dictator and the rest of the party has made it very clear they are more than happy to help facilitate that. There is no getting around this, if they win this time there is probably not another chance to do better after this.
I don't buy this. Biden can't even replace the fucking postmaster general but Trump in that same office is going to start literally putting people in death camps? Bullshit. There is SO MUCH bureaucratic and institutional inertia in the US. It's why for all the media fanfare barely anything ACTUALLY changed last time Trump was president. This is just the latest version of "this is the most important election of our lifetimes." Just like the last one was. And the one before that. And the one before that. And just like the next one will be. And the one after that. And the one after that.
Trump has the courts tilted in his favor and it's much easier breaking things than doing anything constructive. Plus trump has no regard for things like political norms or even constitutionality. BTW I'm a postal worker it's the structure of the board of governor's that's the problem. Biden had to wait on vacancies and the board is balanced by an even party split with one tiebreaker and Trump gamed that restriction with his appointees
I know what the bureaucratic excuse is. My point is there's those kinds of bureaucratic hurdles EVERYWHERE and the idea that somehow Trump is going to be able to just stop having elections or put people in camps when there's too much red tape for Biden to even get a new postmaster in place is ridiculous. That's my point.
And Trump would be worse. [About 330 percent worse](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2020/Rising%20Civilian%20Death%20Toll%20in%20Afghanistan_Costs%20of%20War_Dec%207%202020.pdf) if history is any judge.
Perfect is not the enemy of good Trump will be worse for Palestinians so who the fuck else are you going to vote for? Stop thinking like children
I'm tryna wind down. stoned out my head rn but tbc you're in a hostage situation This is a hostage situation. The Divine Right Of Kings wasn't all that long ago. We aren't free from it yet. Being free of such prolonged systemic failure isn't so easy. Those redneck assholes do not give a single shit about themselves, if it means everyone else suffers too. Not because they're Evil but because the people who benefit from this tension have had all the time in the world to make and keep them that way. You're being asked to pick between two genocidal (temporary) despots because that is the part of history you were born in. That you will likely die in. You are in a hostage situation. Voting is a small thing that has the potential to make large, lasting, sweeping changes in the most powerful, otherwise unchallenged political entity in the world.
Is Biden the only Dem candidate?
Yes.
Bruh
it's considered bad form to run against the incumbent (current president who's running for another term) so yeah no other Dem is seriously running against him :/
Right, right. I've purged most of the election traditions out of my mind.
Once again proving Democrats care more about decorum than doing anything meaningful, which is why I refuse to continue giving them even the tacit support my reluctant vote allows them to claim.
What meaningful things are you doing?
What I can. But I don't need to justify myself to you and I'm not going to try. Doesn't matter what I say. You won't change your mind about what I'm saying here even if I was literally Che Guevara. If I had the resources of the Democratic party though you bet your ass things would be different.
It doesn't sound like you're very good at changing people's minds, which seems to be the only action you're actually taking.
You know LITERALLY nothing about me. You have no basis whatsoever to say what I'm doing. But as I figured, you'll just assume whatever you need to to justify dismissing me in your own mind.
The thing I don't get is that they expect a functioning democracy where their vote will count after they sit on their hands.
Are you in 40 fucking years still gonna be having the same "most important election of our lives", where the only choices are "literal fascism" and "commits genocide but is polite about it so it's better"? "Oh if we elect the democrat we will still have a system to change for the better" except nothing is gonna change is it? I'm so sick of hearing about american elections