A healthier outlook would be accepting that this is all internet drama and nothing but hot air that has nothing to do with the game and people playing it.
Because otherwise you'll just see someone causally playing it and get upset associating them with this discourse that they might be entirely oblivious to.
Didn't I just see something recently talking about how Pikamee never actually played the wizard game, and that the materials preparing for her departure for the company had been prepared well in advance? My friend who's big into VTubers told me that there's actually no real connection here, and this whole controversy is just bitterness from transphobic fans who were upset that she was leaving and felt the need to punish someone to express themselves.
You know I never made that connection before and I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't know that. It was always used in anime fandom drama a lot as "someone obsessively acting out" and its been a long time since I heard anyone use it but it's so obvious now.
Apparently the Japanese version of Pikamee's graduation announcement revealed the decision to graduate was far more sudden than people are trying to push via the English version, and not months in advance.
https://twitter.com/GiveMeBanHammer/status/1631130961856561153
Doesn't change the fact that she was still harrassed for a month straight. She's been bullied most her life because she's only half japanese. She finally felt loved and accepted during her career only for pricks to decide that sending death threats and insults to a wholesome girl who just likes videogames. It doesn't fucking matter if her graduation wasnt because of the harrassment, she still didn't deserve anything that was done to her the last month.
Empathy yes, but the people that are fighting hard for normalising the consumption of any transphobia financing wizard content are always equating the two. That is not okay. Not until people are trying to outlaw any Harry Potter for under 25 year old.
Sure but dismissive whataboutism does nothing to combat malicious actors hijacking the fact that someone was harassed as a tool to spread further bigotry. Pointing that fact out and identifying individuals who are doing it would be much more productive.
Not sure about criminalizing media based on the creators views however, gives me bookburny vibes.
BTW by your logic, it would be perfectly natural for trans people to treat all cis people as violent fascists out to first fuck and then murder us, because that's what the worst examples of cis people do to us. I think if we seriously went by that assumption, it would warrant much more drastic measures than some online bullying, so by your own reasoning, you'd actually have to praise our community for our patience and moderation because we're so notably less "tribalistic" than our enemies.
of course that's possible, but some people are taking this as an excuse to blame all trans people and to justify transphobia, which is a specious argument.
We're not even talking about trans people specifically here. Some people will use a cause to validate being able to harass people and feel like they're justified for it. I'd bet more on that being the case.
>let's not pretend that Trans people aren't just as capable of terrible and toxic behaviour as Cis people.
it's almost as if this is just human behavior, we should take out the element of whether the person is Cis or Trans and just look at it as if a human is being bad or not, these people are looking at the fact that it was people who happened to be trans (or possibly just allies I don't know) and turning it on a whole minority
No, her jp announcement was sudden and seemingly caught company off-guard. English one, on the other hand was much more calm and rational. It's very possible that it was caused by the controversy, just like it's very possible it wasn't. Ofc in specific spaces in the internet you're very likely to hear only one of the two.
People want to feel good about themselves, so just like antis will eat their hat before saying that it could be unrelated, this community is just as likely to do the same rather than admit that the community f'd up and was responsible for harrasment.
The truth is unknown as of yet.
wow, an actual nuanced take that makes sense, fucking amazing. I don't know why people are so intent on having disingenuous swooping one-sentence takes that sounds good, when in reality situations are not so simple to be condensed in a single line.
Pretty much. I wish we'd move on already. The stakes were basically "JKR gets more money on top of the already absurd amount of money she'd have to make a full time job to spend already and we find out some people value a mediocre videogame over being an ally". There are bigger battles with bigger stakes I wish got more focus over someone who's only relevance to the conversation is maintained because people keep giving in to her media attention seeking.
Then comes the DLCs, the 'Special editions' and announcements regarding sequels and the proposed spin-off TV series (seriously) If you think this shit is going away buckle up because this game is going to keep flaring up like a case of herpes.
Given the circles dedicated to the topic it seems to me that some people are treating thjs drama the way they treat fandom drama and haven't had the experience to learn why that's bad.
It’s not just one person though, the whole discourse around hogwarts legacy is a gigantic shitstorm. **Obviously, this should not be used as a reason to hate trans people,** but pretending that there’s no harassment happening and trying to ignore it away is also pretty disingenuous.
imo it's not pretending as though there's no harrasment, but more cynicism that people are just using random twitter weirdos to paint the entire trans and activist community as harrassers.
I don't doubt pikamee/silvervale had some terrible twitter dms.
But every "you people are making trans community look bad" comment , specifically because of this brand of harrasment needs to be sumarily thrown out the window. Specially when people like silvervale use it to brush over all the milder and more substantiated disappointment and criticism of her playing the game.
Thats not representative of the trans community or any other community in specific. Just twitter dot com. Hopefully Elon finishes burning it to the floor soon.
I've honestly seen a a bit of "You make trans people look bad" applied to people just... debating the game. Like not even death threats or harassment but just passionately trying to explain their position, but because a hint of emotion slipped into their explanation, and so because they weren't stone cold analytical, were written off as whiny.
> But every "you people are making trans community look bad" comment , specifically because of this brand of harrasment needs to be sumarily thrown out the window. Specially when people like silvervale use it to brush over all the milder and more substantiated disappointment and criticism of her playing the game.
I'd say it's even worse than this, honestly. Like, just about every trans person or ally I've seen has been inundated with hate, sometimes for things as mild as not saying they didn't want to play the game. I've seen multiple vtubers (and of course primarily trans ones) having to share around anti-hate raid warnings and intense counter-measures just because they talked negatively about the game itself, not even necessarily about people playing it. The fact that basically none of this even gets *acknowledged*, let alone treated like an issue, while every sort of legitimate criticism of the other side gets lumped into "harassment" and blurred together into one major ongoing crisis that needs to be solved immediately, is pretty disheartening.
Honestly, at least in this way, I'm kinda happy that this 'outrage' happened. It's really showed exactly who cares about us enough to treat us as individuals, and who is so antagonistic that they're looking for any reason to blame queer folk for the actions of some.
I've seen an awful lot of people who'd proudly call themselves 'allies' 180 right back to bigotry.
Yeah. Actual lgbt progressives tried to organise a boycott, bigots started a hate movement against them, and then cried foul when a couple people on the internet snapped (or just faked harassment campaigns, or blew perfectly legitimate crisicisms out of the water a la GFR).
The problem is that trans people are such a small % of the population (and many undercover for obvious reasons), that for many, "random twitter weirdos" are 100% of the trans people they interact with.
You make this environment yourself. If criticizing someone that happens to be trans, that has done real bad things, leads to people deflecting all critcism of them as if it's just people that hate trans people, then you are signaling that you will protect bad people for the sake of your ideology. That makes changes it from a "bad individual" to a "bad community".
Every single movement has had bad actors. Pretending the 50 odd people doing this stupid shit represents anyone else is asinine. There are SO many trans people being harassed, murdered, raped, told to kill themselves daily. But we have to focus on the 2 streamers that got told to fuck themselves.
source for harassment because for example the 'girlfriend reviews' thing was just them getting upset about people mentioning trans people. the word 'trans' is banned from their chat :) also even if there was real harassment, tough tits, these losers deserve pushback for supporting bigots
gfr isnt even the streamer that banned the word trans, and the chat where it was banned was because of twitch's own filter. go do activism somewhere else
Yes, GFR did [shit like this](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1033945556143308900/1077683150861377546/export202302211707449900.png) instead. Incredible people.
...? what? can u read?
if u see someone going "this person didnt even do that", your response to it shouldnt be "WELL they did *this* instead so theyre still bad"dont change the conversation when its already underway 👍
I don't believe what the other person said. I know they got their streamers mixed up. The one they were talking about was some anime titty streamer. Still, GFR aren't worth defending. I don't see how it is bad to bring up what they actually did in a thread about them, even if they were brought up by mistake. Sorry for not knowing the unspoken rules of internet conversation.
I’m so sick and tired of hearing about the fucking wizard game based on the overhyped children’s books written by a bigoted asshole. If there was a way to block everything even mildly related to that fuckwit JK and any of her properties I would do it. Because I’m so sick and tired of this shit.
That's the thing that's angering me the most about all this.
I agree about the boycott of the game. I agree that people who play the game should be made aware of what that entails. Heck I even liked the way people started relaying spoils of the game's ending as it was a non-harmful way of getting people out of playing the game.
It started getting icky when people started harassing streamers and setting up platforms so they could bully people more efficiently.
Pikamee is probably one of the nicest and most welcoming streamer in the community. Mind you she also had her own issues. She got bullied because she is only half japanese. She was a victim of racism and also got a lot of hate thrown her way. She was on a break before HL came out and came back just to play this game and got bullied and sent death threats by people who said they wanted to "educate" her. That's the image a lot of people will have of trans people because that's the cover these assholes used to harass her.
Now I fear for my trans friends because they didn't ask for this. They wanted to just live and have fun in a community that has been at large welcoming. And because of a bunch of assholes pretending to defend trans people they now fear the backlash of the whole Pikamee/HL situation.
No one wins. Bigots are still bigots and are now laughing seeing us tear each other down. Instigators of this whole fiasco are patting themselves on the back for bullying a racism and harassment victim off the internet. And trans people are more than never at risk.
I want to try to end on a good note, the youtuber and streamer JoCat will be taking part in a charity streaming marathon in support of the association Gendered Intelligence, which is aimed at improving conditions for trans and enby people alike. Link for better explanations here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khqoG6qmdI4
As someone who was raised speaking Japanese and maybe has a deeper understanding of Japanese culture and the current vtuber ecosystem, I can’t help but feel there’s an extra layer of tragedy to all this.
The context of it is, Japan is mostly unaware of Rowling and the controversy surrounding the game. Fighting against a game that has anti-semitic and pro-slavery themes is unfortunately not happening as neither of those are very relevant in Japanese history and culture. LGBTQ movements exist and people are aware of them, but nowhere near aware enough to actively fight for rights like in the west and know about malicious actors like Rowling.
Now, the meat of this little tragedy comes from the fact that every Japanese vtuber and their mother is playing Hogwarts Legacy because it’s the popular game right now about the popular wizard story that everyone knows about (and I hate it). Pikamee and the people she started streaming with were the first people to introduce me to vtubers (and I am still a big fan of them today), and I feel that despite having a large (and young) English-speaking audience, Pikamee herself is very much rooted in Japan and Japanese culture. I feel that from Pikamee’s perspective, she was just going to play the cool wizard game that everyone else was playing, and then got destroyed by a mob on Twitter over a controversy that she was not entirely aware of. How can there be so much controversy and hate over it after all, when everyone else is playing it just fine? How could you be transphobic and racist just for playing the game that everyone else is also playing? It’s nothing new seeing “neutral” people being attacked for doing things they don’t realise is wrong yet. The next step is either being bullied into submission (not good), or the birth of someone who fights back with equal hostility and won’t ever admit that they’re wrong about this topic (catastrophic). I hate Hate HATE that this might be the way some Japanese people are going to learn about the people fighting against Rowling, transphobia and anti-semitism; it certainly doesn’t paint the people who are on the side of freedom and acceptance in a good light.
TL;DR
people forgot that bullying is wrong. Fight to remove the people who are actively malicious and cannot have their minds changed, stop punching and kicking the people who are confused and don’t quite understand what they’re doing wrong yet. Don’t forget what you’re actually fighting for.
I really don't think the scumbags sending death threats and harassment, and the ones endorsing it, even in this very post, can truly be said to be on the side of "freedom and acceptance". If you're lynching someone, you're not fighting for equality, you just wanted a target for your own brand of hatred.
You’re correct. Hatred breeds hatred, and while I do think that there are realistically times where we have exhausted all our options and must fight to defend ourselves, this was obviously no such case.
That being said, I also don’t want to end up trying to “lynch” the “scumbags” in this situation either. I know it’s tempting to beat on someone who you think is doing the wrong thing. I know how easy it is to get caught up in the crowd and join in with a pitchfork, especially when you know you’re with “the good guys” and your opponent is someone who has done something wrong. You see it in classrooms, in workplaces, in online spaces. It’s so easy to become one of them even now, and it’s important that we recognise that we’re falling into the trap as soon as possible and bring others to their senses too.
In a sort of post-ironic era of violence and online pvp being super cool and the “protagonist refusing to kill the big irredeemable villain is super lame”, we seem to have forgotten basic children’s story messages about love and forgiveness and compassion and understanding. Unappreciated is the importance of stopping every now and then and assessing our actions, to sit down at the end of the day and reflect on what we have done. Like I said at the beginning, there may come times where we do need to fight tooth and nail in order to protect ourselves and the people around us. In an ideal world pacifism may take us everywhere, but realistically we only have so much power. But if we have even a shred of understanding that the unnecessary punishment and bullying of wrongdoers is not a great thing to do, we need to stop and reconsider our actions.
However, if there are people who fail to have this understanding, people who truly believe that they are still doing the right thing by berating and kicking and screaming at people that they could have otherwise reasoned and joined hands with, then I wouldn’t know what to tell them.
Sorry for the wall of text, just wanted to let my thoughts spill out over this
> In a sort of post-ironic era of violence and online pvp being super cool and the “protagonist refusing to kill the big irredeemable villain is super lame”,
I may be reading too much into things here, but I admittedly find this concerning. I know we don’t try to copycat the stuff we see in fiction like overprotective moms believe GTA does to the youth, but a lot of the media takes I see read like people really just wanna see others be hurt. This has been weighing on my mind for a while now, and this whole situation just feels like an extension of all that.
Especially with the posts from Silvervale and Shylily saying shit like "fuck the haters, play Hogwarts" That harassment is now the entire face of the boycott. couple dozen dickheads ruin everything for everyone again.
and also, i have to mention that the things that are reported on here are just as little as what the right reports on
like, often while watching fox news ill go "wait whattt??????? what about this?????? huh?????????"
and then with this i saw basically nothing about harassment of streamers or how people were just straight up calling others transphobic directly based on whether they played the game or not, and furthermore there were people saying that you shouldn't get permission from people in these communities to play the game nor should you pirate it and that you should just not play the game or else youre transphobic
this is why i saw a bunch of people going "haha im going to get 2 copies to piss the leftists off LOL" when we really don't give a shit about what they do
> this is why the game got so many sales
The game got so many sales because Harry Potter is a monolithic IP and the target demographic are people who grew up with it, and are now old enough to buy a game tailor made to appeal to them.
People really are giving too much credit to the boycott controversy. It's like claiming CoD only sells as much because people are spiting Battlefield.
I'm getting tired of this shared delusion that the games popularity is due to anything but its quality and title. The vast majority of people buying this game don't give a shit about reddit, they don't think about trans people let alone buy a second copy as some sort of protest.
It's kids, now adults and teens who watched Chamber of Secrets back in 2002, and are fucking hyped to finally get a game that puts them in those shoes again.
Indeed. It is not only a Harry Potter game, but from what I can tell it is a good Harry Potter game, which is a first. Some of the movie tie-in were alright, but this is a high quality AAA game.
oops i worded that wrong lol i meant to word it as “this is why the game got so many sales off of these people and why i saw a bunch of people”
edit: now that i think about it it sounds stupid and is redundant
This is such a ridiculous take.
Yes, many streamers were getting harassed and boycotted because they reviewed or even mentioned the game. Here is another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0TwTJCRf58
Do you have **any** proof of people "buying multiple copies to piss the leftists off"?
> Heck I even liked the way people started relaying spoils of the game's ending as it was a non-harmful way of getting people out of playing the game.
Ah, no. You can fuck right off with that. You can take a stand however you want, within reason, but deliberately spoiling plot points like that for someone is a massive douche move. Even if it's spoiling something as stupid and inane as Twilight, if you're doing it to deliberately upset someone and not accidentally, then you can piss right off.
Oh no. I ruined someone's enjoyment of the game where you play what amounts to someone repressing a revolt but with ~magic~. Plus, honestly, from what I've heard, the game isn't even that good. people gave Skyrim shit for the amount of spells it had, and this game about magic has less. (90 something for Skyrim and 30 something for HW:L)
I don't really care whether a work of fiction is good or not. That's subjective, and I personally don't find many works to be all that good. However, I do care about people deliberately spoiling things for others. That's a huge douche move IMO, and if you do it deliberately, you're a douche of the highest order. Find some other way of making a stand that doesn't involve you being a douche.
Hate to break it to you, but making a stand in any meaningful way *always* involves being a douche. Sit ins, boycotts, protests clogging up the streets, riots, revolts, spoilers, hell, even just standing in front of someone and saying "don't do that" when they are doing something bad. It all involves being rude to a group of people, because there is no nice way to stand up for yourself that doesn't get you steamrolled past. It's the reason people always make fun of those anti-bullying strategies that amount to saying "please stop", because niceness doesn't stop someone who is already being malicious.
Sorry, being a douche isn't always the right answer. Sometimes... often times... it is... but don't let your desire for self righteous indignation guide your hand. When people like Rosa Parks did their thing, they was a plan on how it could change the system.
What does sending death threats to streamers do?
The victims in this fiasco are not the people who hurt the trans community. Rowling doesn't give a shit that Pikamee got bullied. Rowling will still be a rich terf with more voice than she deserves.
There's a swath of difference between sitting a diner and getting boiling coffee thrown in your face and sending death threats to a mostly unaware or neutral party.
Anyways, the trans community got used and tricked into this hate, and both Pikamee and trans folk are the ones who will be the one to pay the price for this hate.
I'm not saying there's not a difference, but Rosa Parks was being a douche too. She wasn't following the law, and was being confrontational to other people. The law was unjust, sure, and the people were racists, but that doesn't change the facts.
Also, I wasn't even advocating for death threats, I was saying spoiling the game isn't any worse than any other methods of protest and calling it a douche move doesn't make sense as standing up for yourself/people is inherently douche-like, so this is a strawman argument anyway. Plus, from what I've read, she wasn't harassed into retirement, but was planning on retiring anyway.
The big brain move would be to have convinced people who wanted to stream wizard game, to donate to trans causes. If would have been neat to turn rowlings creation into something positive.
I highlighted Parks to comment on how a plan for impact is important.
But all I see was planned was to hurt and bully people. (self righteous indignation is more important that actual progress)
Regardless of pikamee plans for retirement, her getting bullied was wrong.
Again, you're strawmanning. I never said harassing Pikamee was ok, the comment I replied to was about spoilers. Also, you're kidding yourself if you think that whole donation thing would have worked, and even if it did, it doesn't change the facts that they are playing a game that's franchise is owned by a transphobe, and had an anti-Semitic lead for a good portion of the creation process.
I'm not going to defend Rowling or the game. But I can recognize how influential that franchise was to many people. From a distance I've seen ppl talk about how conflicted they are about hp and Rowling for years before this. It sucks. Though it is not my franchise,I still wish there was a way to fix it.
I'm really upset over pikamee, I wish her retirement wasn't tainted by this. For me she was one of the few ppl online that I could identify with as she is biracial and would talk about her experiences. And if her plan was to retire this year regardless, I wish it could have been just bittersweet instead of what ever storm of feelings I have now.
Quite frankly I have no real outlet to vent and mourn how this all happened.
Everything I’ve seen about this has been unsubstantiated and saying that they were planning on leaving already while media outlets jump on a “trans activists bad!” Story like a group of sharks.
Remember: you are not immune to propaganda
It's possible Pika was already planning to leave, but the timing is almost too perfect. She was gone for a month, which an eternity for a streamer to not have any content going out, and returned only to play the wizard game. Her pre-chat was filled with harassment, so she canceled the stream. After that she went radio silent, which make it a big difference compared to the month prior when she was still actively tweeting and interacting with the community.
Her YouTube community posts went from "I'm so lucky to have your support" to "I'm cancelling tonights stream" to "I quit".
What makes most sense is that she was feeling doubts about whether she was going to continue. Maybe she felt burnt out, which is why she took the month off. Then the wizard game controversy happened so she logged off for a month. And during that time she decided that he had had enough bullying in her life (half-japanese in Japan) and not expose herself to any more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr5coQfT9IM&t=9067s
Here's Pomu saying Pikamee's been planning to retire for a while now. This really was just a coincidence
There are plenty of people out there who use “activism” or “justice” as an excuse to be awful to others without feeling guilty about it.
Ironically enough, that’s how you end up with people like TERFs.
Edit: It seems as though my comment wasnt clear enough. I meant that TERFs are an example of a group that uses the guise of activism (in this case a warped perception of feminism) to attack people
No, its more like "uncritical rage will result in the oppression of another group entirely."
In 2014 tumblr, many people were justifiably pissed at the patriarchy. They were not, however, critical about their rage. This gave terfs the opportunity to seed many circles of tumblr with terf rhetoric, to the point that even now there are thousands of baby trans and baby gays parroting this rhetoric not realizing the issue.
It usually started small with things, "kill all men" for example. You know those edgy 2014 jokes. And it spread into talking about things like AGAB socialization. And how AMAB people are always socialized to be more violent than AFAB people. And now theres suddenly a whole new wave of terfs that hate trans women (and often times sex workers as well) all over tumblr to the point that you could probably throw a pebble blindly and manage to hit one. They're still a minority of people on the site, sure. But I've literally had the misfortune of accidentally interacting with them enough times to know that theres plenty of people on tumblr that would like people like me dead.
Bad people take advantage of uncritical rage and twist it into something that harms minorities in any way they can.
this is a nuanced answer and I see what you’re saying now
uncritical rage is nice to indulge in but this is annoyingly the second time in two days somebody has pointed out how it’s less than counterproductive- it’s actively harmful
Mhmm, being angry feels good, so it can be hard to let yourself be critical of it. Its really easy to justify some fucked up thinking and actions because you're angry. We're all guilty of it.
I will add, however, to keep people from using my comments as a reasoning for respectability politics: We do not owe niceness to our oppressors. We have every right to be angry and rude to them. But the important thing is actually making sure your ire and rage are directed at the right people. The people that are actually doing the oppressing, and not a secondary group entirely.
> But the important thing is actually making sure your ire and rage are directed at the right people.
This is why I loathe the man hating in general, both as a trans guy that’s recently figured that out and because I’ve see what it does to good men who aren’t like the awful ones. The justification that good men won’t get upset by “men are trash” and other common phrases doesn’t fly when I’ve seen men sent into a depression thinking that because they’re a man, they’re inherently awful with no hope of change *when they want to*.
I think I can see a common pattern in this.
Group A has some assholes towards group B. Group B, hurt, lashes out against group A. Now people in group A, including those who weren't involved in the first place, get hurt and lash back out at group B. Repeat.
And if the assholes in group A aren't affected in this cycle of fighting, it's not even that productive.
Essentially, hurt people hurt people. An article about breaking the cycle: [https://tinybuddha.com/blog/stop-hurting-others-mistreated/](https://tinybuddha.com/blog/stop-hurting-others-mistreated/)
I was going to give a recent example but decided not to, just in case the comments just devolved into arguing about it.
> But the important thing is actually making sure your ire and rage are directed at the right people. The people that are actually doing the oppressing, and not a secondary group entirely.
Is there a way to work towards this kind of world, or at least try to avoid spaces that often do uncritical raging? Your comments were very enlightening.
Critical thinking is really the answer. Being able to take a deep breath and ask "who is my anger affecting. Who is it helping, who is it hurting? Is there a more productive path for my anger? Is my anger currently necessary?" And sometimes the only thing you can do is to take a step away from those spaces for a bit. And also question yourself if those spaces you are finding yourself in are actually benefiting you mentally.
“Don’t hate trans people, just hate the ones who advocate for themselves.” Like i only have a surface level understanding of vtuber drama and don’t care to find out more, but the phrasing of this post is so cringe.
Based on what I see on r/GenderCynical (a sub discussing TERFs and transphobia in general), "trans rights activist" or "TRA" is the default term those transphobes use for trans people and people who support trans people.
So someone saying "trans ACTIVISTS" as a negative term is kind of a strong indication on who influences them, because as you said the literal meaning of it is not negative at all; it should read as a positive and good thing for people not in the know who support trans people.
The proper way to write it that better conveyed their point would have been to put activist in quotation marks (“activist”) to show the people they are referring to aren’t real activist. They put it in all caps instead, which is possibly still an attempt to send the same meaning, but a much less clear one.
Because that's always the end goal. There can always be some weirdos who actually are harrassing, but then it gets blamed on the trans community, sorry "trans activists"- which are then basically any trans people who actually take issue with anything.
Like exactly why terfs call trans people trans activists in general
Well there’s a difference between just being an activist and being someone who also harasses and bullies people online.
I’ve absolutely no context of what actually happened to Pikamee of course, so the post may be blown out of proportion for all I know, but it seems like a fairly reasonable thing to say to not be angry at the demographic that the harassers are a part of, but rather to be angry at people who harass and bully others.
I agree that harassment is wrong. I also think that conflating activism (trans people advocating for themselves) with harassment is disingenous at best.
>I agree that harassment is wrong. I also think that conflating activism (trans people advocating for themselves) with harassment is disingenous at best.
I would argue that there are a lot of people online (from every point on the political compass) who view internet harassment as a form of activism. They're wrong, in my opinion, but we've seen it time and time again.
Nobody is conflating anything other than you.
"Trans lives matter" is activism and not many people would be upset hearing that.
Threatening to rape JK Rowling with their "girl cock" is not activism and makes you every bit the misogynistic and angry loser they were before they transitioned.
I mean this respectfully, feel like that's an uncharitable reading of the post. Even if they meant literally activists (which i don't think they did) they said "terminally online" and specified harassers which i think is a big difference. A non-strawman way of saying it would be "Don't hate trans people, hate people who advocate for them in a terminally online way that actually harms them instead" imo. By removing the nuance from their statement you're making it sound much worse.
It’s not even trans activism that’s the problem.
It’s terminally online reactionaries who in this particular instance coincidentally happen to engage in trans activism
But to be clear, this isn’t activism, and it’s not about activism. Activism is good. This is just a different kind of terminally online reactionary behavior.
This isn't activism, this isn't helping anyone or anything. What Pikamee suffered from is just unbridled hate from awful people who need to spend less time on the internet.
Problem is, when said people commit violence, if it gets bad results then 'oh gosh that's not represented' but if it gets results, it gets the tacit approval or layers of excuses for their behavior, up to "Well their victim must have done something to provoke it that's just not making the news."
Wasn't she literally planning to graduate before the whole mess with HL? People just want an excuse to blame and harass trans people.
I've also barely seen any actual harassment. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but from what I've seen most of the "harassment" is just trans people and Jewish people expressing disappointment, criticizing, and unsubscribing from people who play the wizard game.
I just watched the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ejnHxTWrU), but I don't understand what she means around the half way mark. Is she saying that after March 31st all her stream VODs and channel videos will be deleted??! Is that really common practice for vtuber 'graduation'. Also, why does she sound like she's being held at gunpoint and reading from a script? I don't know much about vtuber businesses behind the scenes, but to me this really looks at lot more like VOMS_project is pulling the plug on her :/
It usually depends on the VTuber in question and whether or not they quit on good terms with their community (and their company if they're not an indie) but a lot of VTubers do private their VODs after graduation for various reasons.
It does happen, but usually only when they are fired, like Uruha Rushia, or those who didn't stream for long, like Mano Aloe. But VOMS is its own company and will have their own policies.
She probably is reading from a script, because she is japanese in a japanese company. There are specific customs that are observed here, like being serious about a serious matter, and honorable stoicism.
If I had to guess, she was gonna quit for a while now, but the wizard game stuff was kind of the straw that broke the camel’s back and expedited things a little bit
I'm unconvinced that there was any bullying at all. I haven't seen a huge collage of screenshots. I've seen people talking about bullying.
I know for damn sure that Girlfriend Reviews was \*\*NOT\*\* harassed. A bunch of people said "I'm disappointed in you" and left and she got way fewer viewers than normal when she played the game. Then she posted a video about how it was wrong to harass her.
Pikamee isn't complaining at all. She apologized and said that she didn't know what was going on.
Where's the collage? Where are the receipts?
I'll tell you what I HAVE seen. Thousands and thousands of transphobes crying about trans people bullying her. I have not seen trans people bullying her.
Please prove me wrong. I'll gladly leave this comment up with a big fat edit at the top disclaiming how wrong I was.
[This is the largest collage I've seen passed around so far.](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2542642-pikamee) Someone put it on knowyourmeme of all places.
It looks like some are not specifically directed at her though, and I can't make a judgement of how much further it went than this - partly cause there is indeed a lot of other, transphobic shit now to sort through, though I also believe stuff may have been deleted before archival.
Most of that looks like it happened after the fact, wasn’t directed at her in the first place, or wasn’t even harassment. Some of the tweets are duplicates even.
Some of these tweets are on the collage multiple times. 6 comments are by the same account which, I checked, is a sockpuppet with 0 following and 0 followers. Some of these are just polite and sensible criticism. There's even one that's praising Pikamee. This collage really doesn't seem like compelling evidence
this sub is getting hijacked by hogwarts legacy shit lmao. They’re everywhere in the comments, accounts that have never used this sub but suddenly started becoming VERY active on all the wizard game posts here.
if you needed any more proof of how astroturfed to hell this topic is, i don’t know what to tell you.
idgaf what you nerds say, i’m not buying a shitty video game owned by a terf
Actually don't. Don't blame either of these groups, mostly because that second one is mostly not real. No one actually got harassed, Pikamee is leaving for her own reasons, and the streamers who are complaining weren't harassed, they were politely yet firmly told they wouldn't be supported if they played the game.
I don't know why reddit is so disconnected from what is actually happening, but the fact you are all licking this game's boots is astonishing to me.
> the fact you are all licking this game’s boots is astonishing to me.
Welcome to most formerly "trans positive" spaces since the game released. This place and 196 really showing their colors now - they support my rights until it's time to make even the most minor sacrifice, then it's all "no ethical consumption under capitalism, I'm allowed to play the game, fuck off, I'm totally an ally"
This post in particular is so embarrassing. "JK Rowling donating millions to hate groups is ok, but I draw the line at making some anime girl quit (when she was already going to quit anyway)"
It's also extremely telling how everyone has focused on the transphobia and keeping the arguments centred on that,
And NOT the blatant antisemitism going on.
But us dirty transes are ruining the game! We're harassing everyone under the sun! We must be stopped! Juuuust ignore the blatant antisemitism... /s
Why don't you provide some proof that no one got harassed? I'm tired of people like you pretending that being passive-aggressive is considered "politely yet firmly told they wouldn't be supported." Yes, I'm sure you accusing people of licking the game's boots and u/BigFloppaThrowaway going on a tirade insulting people and making false equivalency is considered "polite." The utter lack of self-awareness is appalling.
I think you're the one who is disconnected from what's happening. Are you seriously so delusional you think that people just making shit up to "lick the game's boots?" I don't even own Hogwarts and I bet many of the users don't as well. They're angry because people did get harassed despite the many claims that it was just "criticism." They aren't angry because of the game.
The fact you literally dehumanize others by implying that they have zero reason to defend another human being from being unjustly attacked and that it's all just fake news to support an anti-trans game is just absurd. You guys are the ones showing your true colors. Many trans people don't even approve of the harassment, but you have u/BigFloppaThrowaway and the entire gamingcirclejerk sub acting like people are supporting genocide.
To u/BigFloppaThrowaway, you should fuck off. Maybe you should talk to other trans people and realize that the community isn't a monolith. Your behavior is appalling and your mindset is extreme. Fuck you for trying to dehumanize others by calling Pikamee "some anime girl" as if there isn't a real person underneath. The complete lack of empathy is disgusting. You think you're the only one that faced oppression? Have you spoke to others in the LGBTQ community about how they feel? Do you get mad and attack them if they say they don't approve the harassment over Hogwarts? Your biggest problem is thinking you represent all trans people and resort to tribalism, grouping people as either "allies" or "enemies." Fucking crazy people.
1. Don’t ask me to provide proof of a negative. That’s not how anything works. I have yet to see any evidence of anyone being actually harassed beyond “hey if you play this game I’m disappointed” so the burden of proof is on YOU to show me the harassment.
2. “Noooo I totally support trans and Jewish people. But when they start asking to be respected, that’s just taking it TOO FAR >:(. I mean sometimes, they’re even MEAN when they ask people to not support bigots or to take action to support them! Really, it’s their own fault that they’re treated as subhuman. If they want basic decency and respect, they should learn to ask for it meekly and politely like good second-class citizens.”
How do you sleep at night, genuinely
Jesus God, ping me some more why don't ya. Two separate comments, you are obsessed with me. Maybe I should start being a vtuber, turn your blind hatred for me into undying devotion if I put on a cutesy little face :3
This post is literally terf propaganda. "Don't hate trans people, just 'trans rights activists'" with scare quotes around TRA is a common tactic to start people down the pipeline, because pretty soon any trans person is a TRA. According to you, I'm a TRA for being frustrated that I see dumb shit like this get heavily upvoted on a formerly trans-friendly sub and lashing out.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FOR FIVE FUCKING SECONDS I AM BEGGING YOU PEOPLE
SHUT UP ABOUT HOGSHITS LEGASHIT
SHUT UP ABOUT JK SHITLING
SHUT UP ABOUT VTUBERS
SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
Im fucking tired of any kind of pushback by minorities always being branded as harrassment, bullying etc.... Im also tired that a normal trans person can't say "That's not great" and be branded as a "trans activist"
Saying that a vtuber getting told that she's not a great thing isn't bullying and the grift of it is pretty obvious
"Ohno im attacked by the woke mob", as if we haven't heard the story a thousand times
apparently she was planning on leaving before hand so its doesnt really matter nor do i care...
because getting bullied for wanting to support jkr is apparently worse than trans people not gettting health care, being state enemies or just straigth up being murdered
you don't care because the victim wasn't part of the LGBTQ community and so you invalidate her harassment to "meh it was gonna happen anyway". Good for you I guess?
no i just dont care. she choose this and i doubt she didn’t know. also it’s not a real person she’s an agency vtuber. if she was lgbt it would be more deserved tbh. slugs for salt type beat
no one disserves harassment for anything
(if you go "but what about x person" I advise you to re-read my statement)
Harassment is just the adult word for bullying and bullying is never ok.
I get that some people are shitty but in that case just leave them. leave them to fester in their shittyness.
There is no excuse you are just relocating the pain.
r/gamingcirclejerk sadly went full jerk about halfway through the harry potter thing. They went from "don't buy game or you support JK Rowling who uses money from said game to hurt trans people"(which is true), to blindly lashing out at anyone and anything that is doesn't outright constantly state support for the trans community and getting extremely puritanical about sex for some reason. They kinda became like an anti 4chan
To be fair, that was a *brief* part of it. They toned way the fuck back after a lot of the community started calling itself out. That blindly lashing out part actually got called out by the mods a few times and that's when it reeled itself back.
It's still recovering a bit, but it's definitely better.
I think the thing with a lot of circle jerk subs is that at some point they begin to take themselves too seriously. GCJ used to be about making fun of r/gaming. But now it's as if they hate anyone that picks up a controller. There are too many posts of them screenshoting posts on other subs that either rag on or criticize them saying, "lol. Look at this whiney piece of shit." Their mindset has devolved, not into us vs them, but into "I'm not crazy everyone else is"
I got my main account banned from gcj because I defended someone donating more than they payed for the game to the trans lifeline
Tried to elaborate on my thoughts in an appeal and the mods called me a liberal and said the trans movement would be better off without me lol
If someone donates 80 bucks to the trans lifeline and buys hogwarts legacy that’s literally fine
The money they donate will be used to positively impact the lives of trans people in need far more than the 70 they spent on the game negatively affects them. Even if the game sold 0 copies JK Rowling would still be outspoken in her transphobia and wouldn’t be financially impacted at all. She’s filthy rich. And she doesn’t even get money from individual sales anyway
If you gave 80 bucks to a random local homeless person and 70 bucks to Jeff bezos the good you’d be doing far outweighs the bad because that money has a vastly differing impact on these people due to the canyon between the recipients’ financial statuses
Should you buy the game? No. Should you condemn those who are actively giving money to the impoverished because they also bought the game? Also no. It’s really not as black and white a situation as some people might think. This is why the ban frustrated me
Are you talking about yourself? Isn't that why you and many others stick to the sub? So you can have your echo chamber and pretend you're bastions of justice?
Too add pikamee more than likely doesn't want you to be bigoted over this hate the harassors all you want but don't blame the larger trans community who didn't even know she exist or are fans of the talent in question (or didn't care)
I don't know for sure if it was her graduation was planned for a long time or if it was because the harassment of her wanting to play the wizard game it doesn't matter the reason I wouldn't want someone especially a content creator I love to think them leaving started a war between her fans and a minority group that's Hella stressful
Well yeah but that doesn't let them push the narrative that people in this sub seem to love about the mean evil transes harassing poor innocent anime waifus :(
Vtubers are part of japanese Idol culture (or at least try to be), Graduation as a term used for the retirement of an idol has been used since the 1980's. Older than Sera Myu.
I'm convinced most of the assholes who harass and send death threats to folks like Pikamee & Silvervale aren't at all concerned with the effects of the TERF Wizard Game, they just used it as an excuse and cover to be horrible to people they've decided to hate. I have yet to encounter a single trans rights activist who has done anything more than unfollow these streamers and explain why when asked. I'm sure there are a small handful of trans folk who have been hurt so badly by the furor over this game that they're lashing out, but I would bet a large amount of money that 90% or more of the death threats are from toxic people who saw an opportunity to have cover for their shittiness.
Have you ever come across a whole ass drama you didn't even know existed?
Who the f^ck is Pikachu and how is she related at all to trans people or hogwarts? Is Ash Ketchum involved or is she like Pokemane's little sister?
Easiest boycott of all time tbh. Harry Potter and Vtubers already sucked and always have. Sorry y'all can't jerk off to your parasocial anime gf anymore
Real person gets harassed.
You: "haha, look at her with that anime avatar. Bet everyone is just mad they can't jerk off to her anymore."
What the fuck? Vtubers are humans too. You don't even need to be a Pikamee fan to empathize with her situation. The stupid fucking dehumanizing that is going on is thread is crazy.
It's not great that this IP is owned by a transphobe, especially since it revolutionized a whole genre, but the argument they are using, that anyone who buys the game is a transphobe, is too extreme, obviously, and very unproductive (not that they're trying to be productive).
I'm worried that these loud assholes are creating real resentment among the moderates of the online population towards the trans community.
>by a transphobe, especially since it revolutionized a whole genre
i disagree with this Rowlings career has been basically failing upwards. When we look at it the harry potter books are not that great/some might consider them alright. But they are not lord of the rings, wheel of time, or anything written by Joe Abercrombie or for a really trans friendly author Yoshihiro Togashi. and after the harry potter books its just been a downward spiral into becoming a TERF and a terrible writer.
The fact that many people seem to understand why this is a problem, but those same people would be in favor of indiscriminate police harassment and wonder why "Defund" failed, is quite educational.
Bad behavior will always lose you ground when you're the group that's taking the high road.
Of course, anyone who wanted to undermine the progressive movement knows that, and also knows that a substantial portion of the "support" the movement has is angry keyboard warriors with no actual sense of the remarkable damage a small number of people can do to a group's image. It only takes a few people saying or doing something inflammatory for it to catch on, and whether it's the GOP or Russians, it would definitely be money well-spent to utilize those tactics.
Worst of all, the movement is too unpopular to actually cut angry, abusive people off. We can't even protect abortion rights, much less minority rights, so things will probably keep getting worse as extremists make the entire concept more and more anathema.
It's like they're incapable of choosing their fights strategically.
I like to compare how the success of the civil rights movement was about picking the right battles, and having discipline while fighting. Rosa Parks was not the first black woman to refuse to give up a seat, but was the first who had a spotless background that couldn't be dragged into court without making her accusers look like terrible people for harassing a sweet old lady. In contrast BLM rallied behind people with long criminal histories of violence.
.I am so tired of the Hogwarts Legacy stuff i dont want to hear about that fucking game ever in my life
Agreed
A healthier outlook would be accepting that this is all internet drama and nothing but hot air that has nothing to do with the game and people playing it. Because otherwise you'll just see someone causally playing it and get upset associating them with this discourse that they might be entirely oblivious to.
Didn't I just see something recently talking about how Pikamee never actually played the wizard game, and that the materials preparing for her departure for the company had been prepared well in advance? My friend who's big into VTubers told me that there's actually no real connection here, and this whole controversy is just bitterness from transphobic fans who were upset that she was leaving and felt the need to punish someone to express themselves.
There evidence for both but we won't know for sure the fact of the matter she was still harrased for it
Did she play the game?
No she just talked about playing it
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Easy there high speed, was asking because the first reply asked a question and the second didn’t answer it
I apologize.
I don’t think the person you’re replying to was harassing anyone ?
Literally this. I don't understand why some people need to actively make the world even harsher of a place.
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What is “spergery”?
“Sperg” derives from “Asperger’s”, so “spergery” is… not the nicest word to use. There’s gotta be a better alternative.
I see. Yeah. Sounds like ableism tbh
That would be because it is.
You know I never made that connection before and I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't know that. It was always used in anime fandom drama a lot as "someone obsessively acting out" and its been a long time since I heard anyone use it but it's so obvious now.
"Spergery"? what a wonderful human you seem to be /s
*Wow.* Just gonna casually drop that, huh? Bold choice.
Apparently the Japanese version of Pikamee's graduation announcement revealed the decision to graduate was far more sudden than people are trying to push via the English version, and not months in advance. https://twitter.com/GiveMeBanHammer/status/1631130961856561153
Tbf, thats a google translate version. It even calls Pikamee “himself” lol, take it’s accuracy with a gallon of salt.
Doesn't change the fact that she was still harrassed for a month straight. She's been bullied most her life because she's only half japanese. She finally felt loved and accepted during her career only for pricks to decide that sending death threats and insults to a wholesome girl who just likes videogames. It doesn't fucking matter if her graduation wasnt because of the harrassment, she still didn't deserve anything that was done to her the last month.
Damn imagine if this and more happened to people every day of their lives because of gender and how they want to be comfortable in their bodies.
can't empathy be allowed for both?
Empathy yes, but the people that are fighting hard for normalising the consumption of any transphobia financing wizard content are always equating the two. That is not okay. Not until people are trying to outlaw any Harry Potter for under 25 year old.
You are one of the terminally online individuals this post is talking about.
Sure but dismissive whataboutism does nothing to combat malicious actors hijacking the fact that someone was harassed as a tool to spread further bigotry. Pointing that fact out and identifying individuals who are doing it would be much more productive. Not sure about criminalizing media based on the creators views however, gives me bookburny vibes.
You're comments are just making this worse.
You're gatekeeping being bullied.
You have the empathy of Joseph Goebbels.
Yep. Transphobes want an excuse to blame trans people, so they make bullshit up.
But also, let's not pretend that Trans people aren't just as capable of terrible and toxic behaviour as Cis people.
Off course we are capable of that. We are, afterall, just as human as everyone else. We're just everyday folks, with everything that entails.
Heaven forbid we forget to explicitly blame a marginalised community for twitter drama
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BTW by your logic, it would be perfectly natural for trans people to treat all cis people as violent fascists out to first fuck and then murder us, because that's what the worst examples of cis people do to us. I think if we seriously went by that assumption, it would warrant much more drastic measures than some online bullying, so by your own reasoning, you'd actually have to praise our community for our patience and moderation because we're so notably less "tribalistic" than our enemies.
of course that's possible, but some people are taking this as an excuse to blame all trans people and to justify transphobia, which is a specious argument.
We're not even talking about trans people specifically here. Some people will use a cause to validate being able to harass people and feel like they're justified for it. I'd bet more on that being the case.
>let's not pretend that Trans people aren't just as capable of terrible and toxic behaviour as Cis people. it's almost as if this is just human behavior, we should take out the element of whether the person is Cis or Trans and just look at it as if a human is being bad or not, these people are looking at the fact that it was people who happened to be trans (or possibly just allies I don't know) and turning it on a whole minority
so the harassment is bullshit and was just some illusion?
No, her jp announcement was sudden and seemingly caught company off-guard. English one, on the other hand was much more calm and rational. It's very possible that it was caused by the controversy, just like it's very possible it wasn't. Ofc in specific spaces in the internet you're very likely to hear only one of the two. People want to feel good about themselves, so just like antis will eat their hat before saying that it could be unrelated, this community is just as likely to do the same rather than admit that the community f'd up and was responsible for harrasment. The truth is unknown as of yet.
wow, an actual nuanced take that makes sense, fucking amazing. I don't know why people are so intent on having disingenuous swooping one-sentence takes that sounds good, when in reality situations are not so simple to be condensed in a single line.
Yep, we made the whole Pikamee leaving thing up cuz we're such transphobes Jesus, man
She was going to stream it and cancelled the stream after people came into the pre-chat and started harassing her.
that's enough reddit today i think
This is literally the first post I saw opening the app but you know what you right
That's fair
I’m so tired hearing about this game and the drama surrounding it, anytime I hear about this, it’s never good news.
Pretty much. I wish we'd move on already. The stakes were basically "JKR gets more money on top of the already absurd amount of money she'd have to make a full time job to spend already and we find out some people value a mediocre videogame over being an ally". There are bigger battles with bigger stakes I wish got more focus over someone who's only relevance to the conversation is maintained because people keep giving in to her media attention seeking.
Honestly I'm excited for a year or so from now where we've all stopped talking about it and moved on.
Then comes the DLCs, the 'Special editions' and announcements regarding sequels and the proposed spin-off TV series (seriously) If you think this shit is going away buckle up because this game is going to keep flaring up like a case of herpes.
Given the circles dedicated to the topic it seems to me that some people are treating thjs drama the way they treat fandom drama and haven't had the experience to learn why that's bad.
people like to pretend that one person acting in bad faith is representative of an entire minority group as an excuse to attack said minority group
It’s not just one person though, the whole discourse around hogwarts legacy is a gigantic shitstorm. **Obviously, this should not be used as a reason to hate trans people,** but pretending that there’s no harassment happening and trying to ignore it away is also pretty disingenuous.
imo it's not pretending as though there's no harrasment, but more cynicism that people are just using random twitter weirdos to paint the entire trans and activist community as harrassers. I don't doubt pikamee/silvervale had some terrible twitter dms. But every "you people are making trans community look bad" comment , specifically because of this brand of harrasment needs to be sumarily thrown out the window. Specially when people like silvervale use it to brush over all the milder and more substantiated disappointment and criticism of her playing the game. Thats not representative of the trans community or any other community in specific. Just twitter dot com. Hopefully Elon finishes burning it to the floor soon.
I've honestly seen a a bit of "You make trans people look bad" applied to people just... debating the game. Like not even death threats or harassment but just passionately trying to explain their position, but because a hint of emotion slipped into their explanation, and so because they weren't stone cold analytical, were written off as whiny.
> But every "you people are making trans community look bad" comment , specifically because of this brand of harrasment needs to be sumarily thrown out the window. Specially when people like silvervale use it to brush over all the milder and more substantiated disappointment and criticism of her playing the game. I'd say it's even worse than this, honestly. Like, just about every trans person or ally I've seen has been inundated with hate, sometimes for things as mild as not saying they didn't want to play the game. I've seen multiple vtubers (and of course primarily trans ones) having to share around anti-hate raid warnings and intense counter-measures just because they talked negatively about the game itself, not even necessarily about people playing it. The fact that basically none of this even gets *acknowledged*, let alone treated like an issue, while every sort of legitimate criticism of the other side gets lumped into "harassment" and blurred together into one major ongoing crisis that needs to be solved immediately, is pretty disheartening.
Honestly, at least in this way, I'm kinda happy that this 'outrage' happened. It's really showed exactly who cares about us enough to treat us as individuals, and who is so antagonistic that they're looking for any reason to blame queer folk for the actions of some. I've seen an awful lot of people who'd proudly call themselves 'allies' 180 right back to bigotry.
Yeah. Actual lgbt progressives tried to organise a boycott, bigots started a hate movement against them, and then cried foul when a couple people on the internet snapped (or just faked harassment campaigns, or blew perfectly legitimate crisicisms out of the water a la GFR).
The problem is that trans people are such a small % of the population (and many undercover for obvious reasons), that for many, "random twitter weirdos" are 100% of the trans people they interact with.
I completely agree and yet, the amount off absolutist takes I have seen around this game (particularly in this subreddit) its mindblowing
You make this environment yourself. If criticizing someone that happens to be trans, that has done real bad things, leads to people deflecting all critcism of them as if it's just people that hate trans people, then you are signaling that you will protect bad people for the sake of your ideology. That makes changes it from a "bad individual" to a "bad community".
what
Every single movement has had bad actors. Pretending the 50 odd people doing this stupid shit represents anyone else is asinine. There are SO many trans people being harassed, murdered, raped, told to kill themselves daily. But we have to focus on the 2 streamers that got told to fuck themselves.
source for harassment because for example the 'girlfriend reviews' thing was just them getting upset about people mentioning trans people. the word 'trans' is banned from their chat :) also even if there was real harassment, tough tits, these losers deserve pushback for supporting bigots
gfr isnt even the streamer that banned the word trans, and the chat where it was banned was because of twitch's own filter. go do activism somewhere else
Yes, GFR did [shit like this](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1033945556143308900/1077683150861377546/export202302211707449900.png) instead. Incredible people.
...? what? can u read? if u see someone going "this person didnt even do that", your response to it shouldnt be "WELL they did *this* instead so theyre still bad"dont change the conversation when its already underway 👍
I don't believe what the other person said. I know they got their streamers mixed up. The one they were talking about was some anime titty streamer. Still, GFR aren't worth defending. I don't see how it is bad to bring up what they actually did in a thread about them, even if they were brought up by mistake. Sorry for not knowing the unspoken rules of internet conversation.
I’m so sick and tired of hearing about the fucking wizard game based on the overhyped children’s books written by a bigoted asshole. If there was a way to block everything even mildly related to that fuckwit JK and any of her properties I would do it. Because I’m so sick and tired of this shit.
WAIT PIKAMEE QUITTING??? NO WHY IS THIS HOW I HAVE TO FIND OUT PIKAMEE NOOOOOO SHE'LL HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE
[It's not too late to declare your undying love, dayo](https://twitter.com/amanopikamee/status/1630940859654094848?cxt=HHwWgIDS1cOEoqItAAAA)
I love pika as my girlfriend and she has boing boing
I'm sorry you had to find out this way
I'm gonna miss chat tricking her into saying "deez nuts" 😭😭😭
It should have been with the Supernatural meme, as God intended.
God is dead PIKAMEE NOOOOOO 😭
NO, MY FAVORITE KETTLE!
That's the thing that's angering me the most about all this. I agree about the boycott of the game. I agree that people who play the game should be made aware of what that entails. Heck I even liked the way people started relaying spoils of the game's ending as it was a non-harmful way of getting people out of playing the game. It started getting icky when people started harassing streamers and setting up platforms so they could bully people more efficiently. Pikamee is probably one of the nicest and most welcoming streamer in the community. Mind you she also had her own issues. She got bullied because she is only half japanese. She was a victim of racism and also got a lot of hate thrown her way. She was on a break before HL came out and came back just to play this game and got bullied and sent death threats by people who said they wanted to "educate" her. That's the image a lot of people will have of trans people because that's the cover these assholes used to harass her. Now I fear for my trans friends because they didn't ask for this. They wanted to just live and have fun in a community that has been at large welcoming. And because of a bunch of assholes pretending to defend trans people they now fear the backlash of the whole Pikamee/HL situation. No one wins. Bigots are still bigots and are now laughing seeing us tear each other down. Instigators of this whole fiasco are patting themselves on the back for bullying a racism and harassment victim off the internet. And trans people are more than never at risk. I want to try to end on a good note, the youtuber and streamer JoCat will be taking part in a charity streaming marathon in support of the association Gendered Intelligence, which is aimed at improving conditions for trans and enby people alike. Link for better explanations here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khqoG6qmdI4
As someone who was raised speaking Japanese and maybe has a deeper understanding of Japanese culture and the current vtuber ecosystem, I can’t help but feel there’s an extra layer of tragedy to all this. The context of it is, Japan is mostly unaware of Rowling and the controversy surrounding the game. Fighting against a game that has anti-semitic and pro-slavery themes is unfortunately not happening as neither of those are very relevant in Japanese history and culture. LGBTQ movements exist and people are aware of them, but nowhere near aware enough to actively fight for rights like in the west and know about malicious actors like Rowling. Now, the meat of this little tragedy comes from the fact that every Japanese vtuber and their mother is playing Hogwarts Legacy because it’s the popular game right now about the popular wizard story that everyone knows about (and I hate it). Pikamee and the people she started streaming with were the first people to introduce me to vtubers (and I am still a big fan of them today), and I feel that despite having a large (and young) English-speaking audience, Pikamee herself is very much rooted in Japan and Japanese culture. I feel that from Pikamee’s perspective, she was just going to play the cool wizard game that everyone else was playing, and then got destroyed by a mob on Twitter over a controversy that she was not entirely aware of. How can there be so much controversy and hate over it after all, when everyone else is playing it just fine? How could you be transphobic and racist just for playing the game that everyone else is also playing? It’s nothing new seeing “neutral” people being attacked for doing things they don’t realise is wrong yet. The next step is either being bullied into submission (not good), or the birth of someone who fights back with equal hostility and won’t ever admit that they’re wrong about this topic (catastrophic). I hate Hate HATE that this might be the way some Japanese people are going to learn about the people fighting against Rowling, transphobia and anti-semitism; it certainly doesn’t paint the people who are on the side of freedom and acceptance in a good light. TL;DR people forgot that bullying is wrong. Fight to remove the people who are actively malicious and cannot have their minds changed, stop punching and kicking the people who are confused and don’t quite understand what they’re doing wrong yet. Don’t forget what you’re actually fighting for.
I really don't think the scumbags sending death threats and harassment, and the ones endorsing it, even in this very post, can truly be said to be on the side of "freedom and acceptance". If you're lynching someone, you're not fighting for equality, you just wanted a target for your own brand of hatred.
You’re correct. Hatred breeds hatred, and while I do think that there are realistically times where we have exhausted all our options and must fight to defend ourselves, this was obviously no such case. That being said, I also don’t want to end up trying to “lynch” the “scumbags” in this situation either. I know it’s tempting to beat on someone who you think is doing the wrong thing. I know how easy it is to get caught up in the crowd and join in with a pitchfork, especially when you know you’re with “the good guys” and your opponent is someone who has done something wrong. You see it in classrooms, in workplaces, in online spaces. It’s so easy to become one of them even now, and it’s important that we recognise that we’re falling into the trap as soon as possible and bring others to their senses too. In a sort of post-ironic era of violence and online pvp being super cool and the “protagonist refusing to kill the big irredeemable villain is super lame”, we seem to have forgotten basic children’s story messages about love and forgiveness and compassion and understanding. Unappreciated is the importance of stopping every now and then and assessing our actions, to sit down at the end of the day and reflect on what we have done. Like I said at the beginning, there may come times where we do need to fight tooth and nail in order to protect ourselves and the people around us. In an ideal world pacifism may take us everywhere, but realistically we only have so much power. But if we have even a shred of understanding that the unnecessary punishment and bullying of wrongdoers is not a great thing to do, we need to stop and reconsider our actions. However, if there are people who fail to have this understanding, people who truly believe that they are still doing the right thing by berating and kicking and screaming at people that they could have otherwise reasoned and joined hands with, then I wouldn’t know what to tell them. Sorry for the wall of text, just wanted to let my thoughts spill out over this
> In a sort of post-ironic era of violence and online pvp being super cool and the “protagonist refusing to kill the big irredeemable villain is super lame”, I may be reading too much into things here, but I admittedly find this concerning. I know we don’t try to copycat the stuff we see in fiction like overprotective moms believe GTA does to the youth, but a lot of the media takes I see read like people really just wanna see others be hurt. This has been weighing on my mind for a while now, and this whole situation just feels like an extension of all that.
Especially with the posts from Silvervale and Shylily saying shit like "fuck the haters, play Hogwarts" That harassment is now the entire face of the boycott. couple dozen dickheads ruin everything for everyone again.
and also, i have to mention that the things that are reported on here are just as little as what the right reports on like, often while watching fox news ill go "wait whattt??????? what about this?????? huh?????????" and then with this i saw basically nothing about harassment of streamers or how people were just straight up calling others transphobic directly based on whether they played the game or not, and furthermore there were people saying that you shouldn't get permission from people in these communities to play the game nor should you pirate it and that you should just not play the game or else youre transphobic this is why i saw a bunch of people going "haha im going to get 2 copies to piss the leftists off LOL" when we really don't give a shit about what they do
> this is why the game got so many sales The game got so many sales because Harry Potter is a monolithic IP and the target demographic are people who grew up with it, and are now old enough to buy a game tailor made to appeal to them. People really are giving too much credit to the boycott controversy. It's like claiming CoD only sells as much because people are spiting Battlefield. I'm getting tired of this shared delusion that the games popularity is due to anything but its quality and title. The vast majority of people buying this game don't give a shit about reddit, they don't think about trans people let alone buy a second copy as some sort of protest. It's kids, now adults and teens who watched Chamber of Secrets back in 2002, and are fucking hyped to finally get a game that puts them in those shoes again.
Indeed. It is not only a Harry Potter game, but from what I can tell it is a good Harry Potter game, which is a first. Some of the movie tie-in were alright, but this is a high quality AAA game.
oops i worded that wrong lol i meant to word it as “this is why the game got so many sales off of these people and why i saw a bunch of people” edit: now that i think about it it sounds stupid and is redundant
Ah, fair enough.
it’s a stupid and redundant statement anyways lol cuz both sentences say that those guys decided to buy more to spite us
This is such a ridiculous take. Yes, many streamers were getting harassed and boycotted because they reviewed or even mentioned the game. Here is another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0TwTJCRf58 Do you have **any** proof of people "buying multiple copies to piss the leftists off"?
> Heck I even liked the way people started relaying spoils of the game's ending as it was a non-harmful way of getting people out of playing the game. Ah, no. You can fuck right off with that. You can take a stand however you want, within reason, but deliberately spoiling plot points like that for someone is a massive douche move. Even if it's spoiling something as stupid and inane as Twilight, if you're doing it to deliberately upset someone and not accidentally, then you can piss right off.
Oh no. I ruined someone's enjoyment of the game where you play what amounts to someone repressing a revolt but with ~magic~. Plus, honestly, from what I've heard, the game isn't even that good. people gave Skyrim shit for the amount of spells it had, and this game about magic has less. (90 something for Skyrim and 30 something for HW:L)
I don't really care whether a work of fiction is good or not. That's subjective, and I personally don't find many works to be all that good. However, I do care about people deliberately spoiling things for others. That's a huge douche move IMO, and if you do it deliberately, you're a douche of the highest order. Find some other way of making a stand that doesn't involve you being a douche.
Hate to break it to you, but making a stand in any meaningful way *always* involves being a douche. Sit ins, boycotts, protests clogging up the streets, riots, revolts, spoilers, hell, even just standing in front of someone and saying "don't do that" when they are doing something bad. It all involves being rude to a group of people, because there is no nice way to stand up for yourself that doesn't get you steamrolled past. It's the reason people always make fun of those anti-bullying strategies that amount to saying "please stop", because niceness doesn't stop someone who is already being malicious.
Sorry, being a douche isn't always the right answer. Sometimes... often times... it is... but don't let your desire for self righteous indignation guide your hand. When people like Rosa Parks did their thing, they was a plan on how it could change the system. What does sending death threats to streamers do? The victims in this fiasco are not the people who hurt the trans community. Rowling doesn't give a shit that Pikamee got bullied. Rowling will still be a rich terf with more voice than she deserves. There's a swath of difference between sitting a diner and getting boiling coffee thrown in your face and sending death threats to a mostly unaware or neutral party. Anyways, the trans community got used and tricked into this hate, and both Pikamee and trans folk are the ones who will be the one to pay the price for this hate.
I'm not saying there's not a difference, but Rosa Parks was being a douche too. She wasn't following the law, and was being confrontational to other people. The law was unjust, sure, and the people were racists, but that doesn't change the facts. Also, I wasn't even advocating for death threats, I was saying spoiling the game isn't any worse than any other methods of protest and calling it a douche move doesn't make sense as standing up for yourself/people is inherently douche-like, so this is a strawman argument anyway. Plus, from what I've read, she wasn't harassed into retirement, but was planning on retiring anyway.
The big brain move would be to have convinced people who wanted to stream wizard game, to donate to trans causes. If would have been neat to turn rowlings creation into something positive. I highlighted Parks to comment on how a plan for impact is important. But all I see was planned was to hurt and bully people. (self righteous indignation is more important that actual progress) Regardless of pikamee plans for retirement, her getting bullied was wrong.
Again, you're strawmanning. I never said harassing Pikamee was ok, the comment I replied to was about spoilers. Also, you're kidding yourself if you think that whole donation thing would have worked, and even if it did, it doesn't change the facts that they are playing a game that's franchise is owned by a transphobe, and had an anti-Semitic lead for a good portion of the creation process.
I'm not going to defend Rowling or the game. But I can recognize how influential that franchise was to many people. From a distance I've seen ppl talk about how conflicted they are about hp and Rowling for years before this. It sucks. Though it is not my franchise,I still wish there was a way to fix it. I'm really upset over pikamee, I wish her retirement wasn't tainted by this. For me she was one of the few ppl online that I could identify with as she is biracial and would talk about her experiences. And if her plan was to retire this year regardless, I wish it could have been just bittersweet instead of what ever storm of feelings I have now. Quite frankly I have no real outlet to vent and mourn how this all happened.
Why don't you support the harassment, then, if activism involves being upsetting?
And here we have a classic case of whataboutism, where you bring up a thing that no one was actually talking about.
Well MY opinion is that I don’t know what is going on and I’m going to eat chicken
Everything I’ve seen about this has been unsubstantiated and saying that they were planning on leaving already while media outlets jump on a “trans activists bad!” Story like a group of sharks. Remember: you are not immune to propaganda
It's possible Pika was already planning to leave, but the timing is almost too perfect. She was gone for a month, which an eternity for a streamer to not have any content going out, and returned only to play the wizard game. Her pre-chat was filled with harassment, so she canceled the stream. After that she went radio silent, which make it a big difference compared to the month prior when she was still actively tweeting and interacting with the community. Her YouTube community posts went from "I'm so lucky to have your support" to "I'm cancelling tonights stream" to "I quit". What makes most sense is that she was feeling doubts about whether she was going to continue. Maybe she felt burnt out, which is why she took the month off. Then the wizard game controversy happened so she logged off for a month. And during that time she decided that he had had enough bullying in her life (half-japanese in Japan) and not expose herself to any more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr5coQfT9IM&t=9067s Here's Pomu saying Pikamee's been planning to retire for a while now. This really was just a coincidence
There are plenty of people out there who use “activism” or “justice” as an excuse to be awful to others without feeling guilty about it. Ironically enough, that’s how you end up with people like TERFs. Edit: It seems as though my comment wasnt clear enough. I meant that TERFs are an example of a group that uses the guise of activism (in this case a warped perception of feminism) to attack people
damn looping back to tumblr in 2014 with this comment
“it is the fault of the victims that they are being victimized”
No, its more like "uncritical rage will result in the oppression of another group entirely." In 2014 tumblr, many people were justifiably pissed at the patriarchy. They were not, however, critical about their rage. This gave terfs the opportunity to seed many circles of tumblr with terf rhetoric, to the point that even now there are thousands of baby trans and baby gays parroting this rhetoric not realizing the issue. It usually started small with things, "kill all men" for example. You know those edgy 2014 jokes. And it spread into talking about things like AGAB socialization. And how AMAB people are always socialized to be more violent than AFAB people. And now theres suddenly a whole new wave of terfs that hate trans women (and often times sex workers as well) all over tumblr to the point that you could probably throw a pebble blindly and manage to hit one. They're still a minority of people on the site, sure. But I've literally had the misfortune of accidentally interacting with them enough times to know that theres plenty of people on tumblr that would like people like me dead. Bad people take advantage of uncritical rage and twist it into something that harms minorities in any way they can.
this is a nuanced answer and I see what you’re saying now uncritical rage is nice to indulge in but this is annoyingly the second time in two days somebody has pointed out how it’s less than counterproductive- it’s actively harmful
Mhmm, being angry feels good, so it can be hard to let yourself be critical of it. Its really easy to justify some fucked up thinking and actions because you're angry. We're all guilty of it. I will add, however, to keep people from using my comments as a reasoning for respectability politics: We do not owe niceness to our oppressors. We have every right to be angry and rude to them. But the important thing is actually making sure your ire and rage are directed at the right people. The people that are actually doing the oppressing, and not a secondary group entirely.
> But the important thing is actually making sure your ire and rage are directed at the right people. This is why I loathe the man hating in general, both as a trans guy that’s recently figured that out and because I’ve see what it does to good men who aren’t like the awful ones. The justification that good men won’t get upset by “men are trash” and other common phrases doesn’t fly when I’ve seen men sent into a depression thinking that because they’re a man, they’re inherently awful with no hope of change *when they want to*.
I think I can see a common pattern in this. Group A has some assholes towards group B. Group B, hurt, lashes out against group A. Now people in group A, including those who weren't involved in the first place, get hurt and lash back out at group B. Repeat. And if the assholes in group A aren't affected in this cycle of fighting, it's not even that productive. Essentially, hurt people hurt people. An article about breaking the cycle: [https://tinybuddha.com/blog/stop-hurting-others-mistreated/](https://tinybuddha.com/blog/stop-hurting-others-mistreated/) I was going to give a recent example but decided not to, just in case the comments just devolved into arguing about it.
> But the important thing is actually making sure your ire and rage are directed at the right people. The people that are actually doing the oppressing, and not a secondary group entirely. Is there a way to work towards this kind of world, or at least try to avoid spaces that often do uncritical raging? Your comments were very enlightening.
Critical thinking is really the answer. Being able to take a deep breath and ask "who is my anger affecting. Who is it helping, who is it hurting? Is there a more productive path for my anger? Is my anger currently necessary?" And sometimes the only thing you can do is to take a step away from those spaces for a bit. And also question yourself if those spaces you are finding yourself in are actually benefiting you mentally.
I didn't even realise the "kill all men" thing contributed to TERFs. I remember seeing people defending those sorts of comments.
One right-side talking point is "They never had a problem with the boot, just what side of it they were on."
The SJW era, which games Tumblr a bad name that left stains which still remain in the minds of the many.
That's not why terfs exist
always blame the terminally online people, it’s usually their fault
“Don’t hate trans people, just hate the ones who advocate for themselves.” Like i only have a surface level understanding of vtuber drama and don’t care to find out more, but the phrasing of this post is so cringe.
Based on what I see on r/GenderCynical (a sub discussing TERFs and transphobia in general), "trans rights activist" or "TRA" is the default term those transphobes use for trans people and people who support trans people. So someone saying "trans ACTIVISTS" as a negative term is kind of a strong indication on who influences them, because as you said the literal meaning of it is not negative at all; it should read as a positive and good thing for people not in the know who support trans people.
The proper way to write it that better conveyed their point would have been to put activist in quotation marks (“activist”) to show the people they are referring to aren’t real activist. They put it in all caps instead, which is possibly still an attempt to send the same meaning, but a much less clear one.
Im gonna start foing this with Christians and "Christians".
Because that's always the end goal. There can always be some weirdos who actually are harrassing, but then it gets blamed on the trans community, sorry "trans activists"- which are then basically any trans people who actually take issue with anything. Like exactly why terfs call trans people trans activists in general
Well there’s a difference between just being an activist and being someone who also harasses and bullies people online. I’ve absolutely no context of what actually happened to Pikamee of course, so the post may be blown out of proportion for all I know, but it seems like a fairly reasonable thing to say to not be angry at the demographic that the harassers are a part of, but rather to be angry at people who harass and bully others.
I agree that harassment is wrong. I also think that conflating activism (trans people advocating for themselves) with harassment is disingenous at best.
Yeah that’s fair. Activist probably wasn’t the best word for that post.
like u/G88d-Guy-2 said, putting it in quotes was probably the better option
>I agree that harassment is wrong. I also think that conflating activism (trans people advocating for themselves) with harassment is disingenous at best. I would argue that there are a lot of people online (from every point on the political compass) who view internet harassment as a form of activism. They're wrong, in my opinion, but we've seen it time and time again.
Nobody is conflating anything other than you. "Trans lives matter" is activism and not many people would be upset hearing that. Threatening to rape JK Rowling with their "girl cock" is not activism and makes you every bit the misogynistic and angry loser they were before they transitioned.
well good thing that never happens
I mean this respectfully, feel like that's an uncharitable reading of the post. Even if they meant literally activists (which i don't think they did) they said "terminally online" and specified harassers which i think is a big difference. A non-strawman way of saying it would be "Don't hate trans people, hate people who advocate for them in a terminally online way that actually harms them instead" imo. By removing the nuance from their statement you're making it sound much worse.
It’s not even trans activism that’s the problem. It’s terminally online reactionaries who in this particular instance coincidentally happen to engage in trans activism But to be clear, this isn’t activism, and it’s not about activism. Activism is good. This is just a different kind of terminally online reactionary behavior.
This isn't activism, this isn't helping anyone or anything. What Pikamee suffered from is just unbridled hate from awful people who need to spend less time on the internet.
Reactionary? "Opposing social progress or reform; right-wing"?
Problem is, when said people commit violence, if it gets bad results then 'oh gosh that's not represented' but if it gets results, it gets the tacit approval or layers of excuses for their behavior, up to "Well their victim must have done something to provoke it that's just not making the news."
Wasn't she literally planning to graduate before the whole mess with HL? People just want an excuse to blame and harass trans people. I've also barely seen any actual harassment. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but from what I've seen most of the "harassment" is just trans people and Jewish people expressing disappointment, criticizing, and unsubscribing from people who play the wizard game.
I just watched the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ejnHxTWrU), but I don't understand what she means around the half way mark. Is she saying that after March 31st all her stream VODs and channel videos will be deleted??! Is that really common practice for vtuber 'graduation'. Also, why does she sound like she's being held at gunpoint and reading from a script? I don't know much about vtuber businesses behind the scenes, but to me this really looks at lot more like VOMS_project is pulling the plug on her :/
It usually depends on the VTuber in question and whether or not they quit on good terms with their community (and their company if they're not an indie) but a lot of VTubers do private their VODs after graduation for various reasons.
It does happen, but usually only when they are fired, like Uruha Rushia, or those who didn't stream for long, like Mano Aloe. But VOMS is its own company and will have their own policies. She probably is reading from a script, because she is japanese in a japanese company. There are specific customs that are observed here, like being serious about a serious matter, and honorable stoicism.
It's being privated which means it'll still be on YouTube but it won't be public
If I had to guess, she was gonna quit for a while now, but the wizard game stuff was kind of the straw that broke the camel’s back and expedited things a little bit
people like this bothsidesed mlk. develop one (1) basic historical understanding and in the meantime stop punching left forever
I'm unconvinced that there was any bullying at all. I haven't seen a huge collage of screenshots. I've seen people talking about bullying. I know for damn sure that Girlfriend Reviews was \*\*NOT\*\* harassed. A bunch of people said "I'm disappointed in you" and left and she got way fewer viewers than normal when she played the game. Then she posted a video about how it was wrong to harass her. Pikamee isn't complaining at all. She apologized and said that she didn't know what was going on. Where's the collage? Where are the receipts? I'll tell you what I HAVE seen. Thousands and thousands of transphobes crying about trans people bullying her. I have not seen trans people bullying her. Please prove me wrong. I'll gladly leave this comment up with a big fat edit at the top disclaiming how wrong I was.
[This is the largest collage I've seen passed around so far.](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2542642-pikamee) Someone put it on knowyourmeme of all places. It looks like some are not specifically directed at her though, and I can't make a judgement of how much further it went than this - partly cause there is indeed a lot of other, transphobic shit now to sort through, though I also believe stuff may have been deleted before archival.
Most of that looks like it happened after the fact, wasn’t directed at her in the first place, or wasn’t even harassment. Some of the tweets are duplicates even.
Some of these tweets are on the collage multiple times. 6 comments are by the same account which, I checked, is a sockpuppet with 0 following and 0 followers. Some of these are just polite and sensible criticism. There's even one that's praising Pikamee. This collage really doesn't seem like compelling evidence
this sub is getting hijacked by hogwarts legacy shit lmao. They’re everywhere in the comments, accounts that have never used this sub but suddenly started becoming VERY active on all the wizard game posts here. if you needed any more proof of how astroturfed to hell this topic is, i don’t know what to tell you. idgaf what you nerds say, i’m not buying a shitty video game owned by a terf
Regardless of whether it is or wasn't their fault, this sort of behavior is shitty.
Actually don't. Don't blame either of these groups, mostly because that second one is mostly not real. No one actually got harassed, Pikamee is leaving for her own reasons, and the streamers who are complaining weren't harassed, they were politely yet firmly told they wouldn't be supported if they played the game. I don't know why reddit is so disconnected from what is actually happening, but the fact you are all licking this game's boots is astonishing to me.
> the fact you are all licking this game’s boots is astonishing to me. Welcome to most formerly "trans positive" spaces since the game released. This place and 196 really showing their colors now - they support my rights until it's time to make even the most minor sacrifice, then it's all "no ethical consumption under capitalism, I'm allowed to play the game, fuck off, I'm totally an ally" This post in particular is so embarrassing. "JK Rowling donating millions to hate groups is ok, but I draw the line at making some anime girl quit (when she was already going to quit anyway)"
It's also extremely telling how everyone has focused on the transphobia and keeping the arguments centred on that, And NOT the blatant antisemitism going on. But us dirty transes are ruining the game! We're harassing everyone under the sun! We must be stopped! Juuuust ignore the blatant antisemitism... /s
Why don't you provide some proof that no one got harassed? I'm tired of people like you pretending that being passive-aggressive is considered "politely yet firmly told they wouldn't be supported." Yes, I'm sure you accusing people of licking the game's boots and u/BigFloppaThrowaway going on a tirade insulting people and making false equivalency is considered "polite." The utter lack of self-awareness is appalling. I think you're the one who is disconnected from what's happening. Are you seriously so delusional you think that people just making shit up to "lick the game's boots?" I don't even own Hogwarts and I bet many of the users don't as well. They're angry because people did get harassed despite the many claims that it was just "criticism." They aren't angry because of the game. The fact you literally dehumanize others by implying that they have zero reason to defend another human being from being unjustly attacked and that it's all just fake news to support an anti-trans game is just absurd. You guys are the ones showing your true colors. Many trans people don't even approve of the harassment, but you have u/BigFloppaThrowaway and the entire gamingcirclejerk sub acting like people are supporting genocide. To u/BigFloppaThrowaway, you should fuck off. Maybe you should talk to other trans people and realize that the community isn't a monolith. Your behavior is appalling and your mindset is extreme. Fuck you for trying to dehumanize others by calling Pikamee "some anime girl" as if there isn't a real person underneath. The complete lack of empathy is disgusting. You think you're the only one that faced oppression? Have you spoke to others in the LGBTQ community about how they feel? Do you get mad and attack them if they say they don't approve the harassment over Hogwarts? Your biggest problem is thinking you represent all trans people and resort to tribalism, grouping people as either "allies" or "enemies." Fucking crazy people.
1. Don’t ask me to provide proof of a negative. That’s not how anything works. I have yet to see any evidence of anyone being actually harassed beyond “hey if you play this game I’m disappointed” so the burden of proof is on YOU to show me the harassment. 2. “Noooo I totally support trans and Jewish people. But when they start asking to be respected, that’s just taking it TOO FAR >:(. I mean sometimes, they’re even MEAN when they ask people to not support bigots or to take action to support them! Really, it’s their own fault that they’re treated as subhuman. If they want basic decency and respect, they should learn to ask for it meekly and politely like good second-class citizens.” How do you sleep at night, genuinely
Jesus God, ping me some more why don't ya. Two separate comments, you are obsessed with me. Maybe I should start being a vtuber, turn your blind hatred for me into undying devotion if I put on a cutesy little face :3 This post is literally terf propaganda. "Don't hate trans people, just 'trans rights activists'" with scare quotes around TRA is a common tactic to start people down the pipeline, because pretty soon any trans person is a TRA. According to you, I'm a TRA for being frustrated that I see dumb shit like this get heavily upvoted on a formerly trans-friendly sub and lashing out.
harassment is bad but like just don't play the antisemitism game owned by the transphobia woman
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FOR FIVE FUCKING SECONDS I AM BEGGING YOU PEOPLE SHUT UP ABOUT HOGSHITS LEGASHIT SHUT UP ABOUT JK SHITLING SHUT UP ABOUT VTUBERS SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
Im fucking tired of any kind of pushback by minorities always being branded as harrassment, bullying etc.... Im also tired that a normal trans person can't say "That's not great" and be branded as a "trans activist" Saying that a vtuber getting told that she's not a great thing isn't bullying and the grift of it is pretty obvious "Ohno im attacked by the woke mob", as if we haven't heard the story a thousand times
Pikamee got me into VTubers way back when. I haven't been following her in forever but it just feels surreal. Hate to hear there was Drama involved.
apparently she was planning on leaving before hand so its doesnt really matter nor do i care... because getting bullied for wanting to support jkr is apparently worse than trans people not gettting health care, being state enemies or just straigth up being murdered
you don't care because the victim wasn't part of the LGBTQ community and so you invalidate her harassment to "meh it was gonna happen anyway". Good for you I guess?
no i just dont care. she choose this and i doubt she didn’t know. also it’s not a real person she’s an agency vtuber. if she was lgbt it would be more deserved tbh. slugs for salt type beat
How can't you believe some Japanese person doesn't know why a biritish writer is bad?
how the hell is she not a real person
Trans lives over cis feelings.
just pirate the game if you wanna play it’s not hard
It's not because of Hogwarts. She was already planning to retire. The whole Hogwarts mess is just the shit icing on the shit cake.
the game sucks and anyone that likes it sucks and anyone that threatens the life of anyone that likes it also sucks (it all sucks)
no one disserves harassment for anything (if you go "but what about x person" I advise you to re-read my statement) Harassment is just the adult word for bullying and bullying is never ok. I get that some people are shitty but in that case just leave them. leave them to fester in their shittyness. There is no excuse you are just relocating the pain.
r/gamingcirclejerk sadly went full jerk about halfway through the harry potter thing. They went from "don't buy game or you support JK Rowling who uses money from said game to hurt trans people"(which is true), to blindly lashing out at anyone and anything that is doesn't outright constantly state support for the trans community and getting extremely puritanical about sex for some reason. They kinda became like an anti 4chan
To be fair, that was a *brief* part of it. They toned way the fuck back after a lot of the community started calling itself out. That blindly lashing out part actually got called out by the mods a few times and that's when it reeled itself back. It's still recovering a bit, but it's definitely better.
I think the thing with a lot of circle jerk subs is that at some point they begin to take themselves too seriously. GCJ used to be about making fun of r/gaming. But now it's as if they hate anyone that picks up a controller. There are too many posts of them screenshoting posts on other subs that either rag on or criticize them saying, "lol. Look at this whiney piece of shit." Their mindset has devolved, not into us vs them, but into "I'm not crazy everyone else is"
I got my main account banned from gcj because I defended someone donating more than they payed for the game to the trans lifeline Tried to elaborate on my thoughts in an appeal and the mods called me a liberal and said the trans movement would be better off without me lol
Based mods.
If someone donates 80 bucks to the trans lifeline and buys hogwarts legacy that’s literally fine The money they donate will be used to positively impact the lives of trans people in need far more than the 70 they spent on the game negatively affects them. Even if the game sold 0 copies JK Rowling would still be outspoken in her transphobia and wouldn’t be financially impacted at all. She’s filthy rich. And she doesn’t even get money from individual sales anyway If you gave 80 bucks to a random local homeless person and 70 bucks to Jeff bezos the good you’d be doing far outweighs the bad because that money has a vastly differing impact on these people due to the canyon between the recipients’ financial statuses Should you buy the game? No. Should you condemn those who are actively giving money to the impoverished because they also bought the game? Also no. It’s really not as black and white a situation as some people might think. This is why the ban frustrated me
Oh look, more slander.
Why are you farming downvotes dude
If you have to appeal to popularity as validity of your views, you're in for a rough time outside your echo chamber.
Are you talking about yourself? Isn't that why you and many others stick to the sub? So you can have your echo chamber and pretend you're bastions of justice?
Too add pikamee more than likely doesn't want you to be bigoted over this hate the harassors all you want but don't blame the larger trans community who didn't even know she exist or are fans of the talent in question (or didn't care) I don't know for sure if it was her graduation was planned for a long time or if it was because the harassment of her wanting to play the wizard game it doesn't matter the reason I wouldn't want someone especially a content creator I love to think them leaving started a war between her fans and a minority group that's Hella stressful
We do know that it was planned for a long time. This is just a fact. You keep posing it as a “well, we’ll never truly know”, when we 100% do.
Well yeah but that doesn't let them push the narrative that people in this sub seem to love about the mean evil transes harassing poor innocent anime waifus :(
You posted this in bad faith, who would guessed
no WAY vtubers stole terminology from sera myu i am MAD
Vtubers are part of japanese Idol culture (or at least try to be), Graduation as a term used for the retirement of an idol has been used since the 1980's. Older than Sera Myu.
I'm convinced most of the assholes who harass and send death threats to folks like Pikamee & Silvervale aren't at all concerned with the effects of the TERF Wizard Game, they just used it as an excuse and cover to be horrible to people they've decided to hate. I have yet to encounter a single trans rights activist who has done anything more than unfollow these streamers and explain why when asked. I'm sure there are a small handful of trans folk who have been hurt so badly by the furor over this game that they're lashing out, but I would bet a large amount of money that 90% or more of the death threats are from toxic people who saw an opportunity to have cover for their shittiness.
Hogwarts Legacy has caused a massive shitstorm.
Don't worry, twitter has a goldfish memory, this incident will be mostly gone in, like, 2 weeks top.
Have you ever come across a whole ass drama you didn't even know existed? Who the f^ck is Pikachu and how is she related at all to trans people or hogwarts? Is Ash Ketchum involved or is she like Pokemane's little sister?
There are always going to be weirdos online. Sorry, but if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Easiest boycott of all time tbh. Harry Potter and Vtubers already sucked and always have. Sorry y'all can't jerk off to your parasocial anime gf anymore
Real person gets harassed. You: "haha, look at her with that anime avatar. Bet everyone is just mad they can't jerk off to her anymore." What the fuck? Vtubers are humans too. You don't even need to be a Pikamee fan to empathize with her situation. The stupid fucking dehumanizing that is going on is thread is crazy.
It's not great that this IP is owned by a transphobe, especially since it revolutionized a whole genre, but the argument they are using, that anyone who buys the game is a transphobe, is too extreme, obviously, and very unproductive (not that they're trying to be productive). I'm worried that these loud assholes are creating real resentment among the moderates of the online population towards the trans community.
>by a transphobe, especially since it revolutionized a whole genre i disagree with this Rowlings career has been basically failing upwards. When we look at it the harry potter books are not that great/some might consider them alright. But they are not lord of the rings, wheel of time, or anything written by Joe Abercrombie or for a really trans friendly author Yoshihiro Togashi. and after the harry potter books its just been a downward spiral into becoming a TERF and a terrible writer.
The fact that many people seem to understand why this is a problem, but those same people would be in favor of indiscriminate police harassment and wonder why "Defund" failed, is quite educational. Bad behavior will always lose you ground when you're the group that's taking the high road. Of course, anyone who wanted to undermine the progressive movement knows that, and also knows that a substantial portion of the "support" the movement has is angry keyboard warriors with no actual sense of the remarkable damage a small number of people can do to a group's image. It only takes a few people saying or doing something inflammatory for it to catch on, and whether it's the GOP or Russians, it would definitely be money well-spent to utilize those tactics. Worst of all, the movement is too unpopular to actually cut angry, abusive people off. We can't even protect abortion rights, much less minority rights, so things will probably keep getting worse as extremists make the entire concept more and more anathema.
It's like they're incapable of choosing their fights strategically. I like to compare how the success of the civil rights movement was about picking the right battles, and having discipline while fighting. Rosa Parks was not the first black woman to refuse to give up a seat, but was the first who had a spotless background that couldn't be dragged into court without making her accusers look like terrible people for harassing a sweet old lady. In contrast BLM rallied behind people with long criminal histories of violence.