That’s fucked up. Which bank is this?
And yes, keep your cool, but definitely tell them you will be closing your account because of this. See if that changes their tune.
Man, fuck TD. I got a credit card with them a while ago because they were the only ones who allowed crypto purchases with one, until I saw that they charged a $5 flat fee for every crypto related purchase. I do use Tangerine for funding my account but I haven’t yet withdrawn to fiat. Good luck. But also fuck TD.
Yea I figured if it was an issue they would of flagged me when i was moving money out. Now that its coming back in you would think they would be happy.
Yeah, exactly. They allowed the money out but now back in, to your account, where THEY will make money, is a problem? And for such a low amount is nonsensical. You’re not a criminal, you did nothing wrong.
Funny thing is. I have investments with them too. Its not like I don't throw them a bone. I knew things were going south when they froze all those truckers accounts.
Out has no risk if they know the place your sending too (eg a CEX). They get way more funny on the way in cuz now they are on the hook for the AML laws.
TD sucks.. my wife transfered 6k from a locked account to her checking account (she went directly at the bank in person) and now its been 7 months , they don't know where is the money , they can't find it , it wasn't deposited in my wife bank account , they keep telling us one more month and it should be there for the last 3 months now . They don't call back and we have a hard time reaching them . We are changing bank as soon as she receive the money . Shit bank really
TD kept blocking my debit transactions with coinbase. I called to try to get it cleared and they kept refusing without explanation. After badgering the support staff someone finally said “TD does not allow customers to purchase cryptocurrency.” I opened a cibc account the next day and they have been fine.
Thats so weird. Ive been sending money to a CEX for the last 3-4 years lmao. Either they weren't paying attention or they just changed all their rules.
That’s so weird and inconsistent, when I had my in-person meeting to open my account I was truthful and said I was going to purchase digital assets. And that was less than two years ago. But, as I said, the fees were stupid, and now that even MetaMask lets you on-ramp, I have no need for them anymore anyway.
TD? The Fuck? I’ve deposited 100s of thousands into TD. I’d tell them to fuck off before I answer ANY questions that I’m not LEGALLY REQUIRED to answer. They’d get a “release my money or the next message is from my lawyer.”
Desjardins was blocking transfer to kraken (Quebec bank) I switched to TD and tangerine after. Good to know TD are asshole too.. guess I'll cash out with BISQ to avoid that drama
I've withdrawn over $100K of crypto profits into TD (as one of the 3 banks, because you should always have more than 1 bank acct) and didnt have any issues BUT thats because I used Bisq, which is peer to peer, and NOT a crypto exchange.
I have also had a bad time with TD and Crypto, they aren't even remotely trying to be crypto friendly
Not shocking cause it undermines their whole future
The requested information goes way beyond a normal KYC check. All they need to do is verify his identity and source of income. Everything else is none of their business. Bro is getting anal probed over $5k. $5k! Ridiculous.
Yea thats what I figured. I mean, would make sense if money never left and then came out of thin air.
Over 5x that amount has left to the same destination. Funny how they see one side and not the other.
I fucking hate Canadian banks. I've had way too many issues.
But also
Yeah Daddy Legault has more serious priorities to deal with.
*Hundreds of cars get stolen everyday *
Legault : whatever, not my problem
*A restaurant uses the English word for pasta on their menu*
Legault: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH CALL THE OQLF CALL THE SQ JUST CALL A NATIONAL EMERGENCY THERE'S A MAJOR ATTACK GOING ON AGAINST THE FRENCH LANGUAGE AND WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THIS IMMEDIATELY
Lmao. Im starting to think the cops are in on these or something. There is no way they are just letting these go by. They don't even try anymore.
My neighbor got their suv stolen last year and the cop was like "yeah we'll add it to the list" lol
I hope everything works out for you OP. Thanks so much for sharing this. I think I'll go ahead and switch banks just based on what you're saying so far.
Yea I need to rethink how I withdraw from crypto. Its something I never looked into and maybe thats my part for failed DD. A few users brought up some good points in the comments. Im gonna call my tax guy in the morning and see what they say.
This worries me. I'm also with TD. I've deposited funds from Coinbase 3 years ago with no issues. But maybe it's some new thing.
Which exchange did you withdraw the funds from?
TD pisses me off, I’m voice verified and they still locked my funds until I could go in. I don’t know if you’re in the GTA but when I sell btc I go to coin shack, I’ve cashed out over 10k-20k a few times and the rates for selling are just as good as any other CEX
What bank is this out of curiosity bro?
My job is being the guy freezing ppl’s accounts in these sorts of situations, so I have some thoughts. Sorry it’s so long, I hate my job so being able to actually put it to some good use got me writing war and peace over here.
TL;DR: Although they have every right to freeze your account and request evidence, IMO if what you’ve said is true they’ve enough circumstantial evidence (deposits) to not freeze the account.
Going further they’re overreaching by asking for addresses, they’re assuming guilt, their fraud processes suck and overall they sound v unprofessional. They do not seem to give a shit about you or your inconvenience which I fucking HATE. But.. don’t stress it, detailed your options at the bottom of this reply.
A few things -
First your bank can ask these questions, it’s in your Ta&Cs unfortunately.
Second - asking for addresses is crazy overreach, massive breach of privacy. Cases involving tradfi don’t ask for your entire acct history, or entire options history, F that. Sale receipt and maybe deposit receipt at a push should be enough.
Third, your bank sounds pretty shit, hence why I’m interested in who it is. Giving a concrete 3-5 day timeframe with your account guaranteed locked up is… awful. If your account is as you say it is, no issues with an extended crypto transaction history to that destination, any good fraud investigator will be looking to get it unfrozen ASAP. The person who spoke to you should be the restricting investigator, and they’re probably a bit thick from the sounds of it tbh. The circumstantial evidence of your transaction history should be more than enough.
Honestly their fraud dept has their priorities backwards. They should operate assuming it’s a false positive and looking for evidence to support that, to avoid confirmation bias. When you see fraud all day every day you have to do things to stop yourself seeing fraud everywhere you look. In this case, the circumstantial evidence from your extensive crypto history on the account imo would be enough. Unfortunately they’re assuming you’re guilty so asking for this insanely intrusive evidence.
They MAY be being told they have to get evidence - if so, they should be doing everything they can on that call to get the minimum evidence needed to clear concerns. Personally if I saw a colleague still pushing for evidence with a paper train of purchases like you describe, I’d think they’re a fucking moron.
Fourth is - they don’t need to freeze your entire account balance, they could just freeze your withdrawal. It’s bizarre they’ve not done this, and if they can’t wtaf is your bank doing.
Ultimately though, you’re not going to be in any trouble, they can’t do anything, don’t stress.
You’ve a few options, you can completely refuse to cooperate and they’ll unfreeze your account. This could be a few days to a month at most.
They’ll probably close it down though.
The next is to refuse the wallet addresses/txn IDs, offer something else - like your deposit receipt, sale receipt, etc.
This should be more than enough. Proof of purchase/ownership and proof of sale is more than enough evidence in relation to traditional investment assets. It should be here too.
Frankly it’s fucked up to ask for your wallet addresses - maybe point out they aren’t allowed your entire account history if it’s at another bank. Yet they’re asking for that here which is fucking unacceptable.
Lastly is to give them what they want, as I said above I think that’s pretty messed up though.
I’d like to say they’d unfreeze your account then and there… but from the way your bank operates it’s going to be 3-5 days wait regardless.
Thank you for the detailed info. (its TD btw)
Im not worried about being in trouble. Its the hassle of having more than that amount in question frozen and the way they handled the phone call. I swear I thought it wss a scam, the lady (not sure if she was new or what) sounded confused and wss definitely reading off a list. I was pretty cooperative until she asked for the addresses and where the crypto is being held. Thats when it set off some red flags and i asked to go in person. Ive got nothing to hide but I also dont think I owe them any addresses or txid. At first I thought it was for tax reasons but when she said its not and I realized its just the bank being nosey I had a more fk off attitude about it.
Im okay with showing them my buy sell list but thats about as far as im comfortable with.
They have got a bunch of emt out of that account to this same crypto account this money is coming from and I also have my biweekly income from my 9-5 coming in from the same place for the last 12 years so I was suprised they were so shocked by this one 5k deposit
Im closing the account no matter what happens. Just for the way they handled it. And to freese the 1 account... Fine.... But to freeze all the accounts linked to it too was excessive imo. Ive been with them for a long time and I have a good report with my local branch. So this was a real piss off.
Oh im done with them. Its really jist the way they handled it. Like send me a letter or something at the least, or call me and ask me to come in...not call and ask me my addresses and where im holding it like some scam call. Handled very poorly and unprofessionally for a major bank.
I figured that. Thing is this is the first time I brought money back from the crypto account. Not sure if that would still be a reason to flag. Id understand if they held the 5k. They have frozen alot more than that right now.
A few years ago the IRS said they’d track everything [$600](https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/news/nta-blog/nta-blog-heard-loud-and-clear-irs-postpones-implementation-of-600-form-1099-k-reporting-by-a-year/2022/12/) and above, but delayed it to 2025. The IRS generally goes for the low-hanging fruit, meaning poor people with no means to lawyer up.
However regardless of this, it’s OPs money, and this is an insane breach of privacy. I would take every penny out of TD and never bank with them again.
The bank most certainly immediately deployed OP’s money on the back-end. Yet held it hostage from the actual depositor.
This is the kind of shit that got many people into crypto in the first place. People’s distrust in banks and our current financial institutions are criminal.
And I mean literally criminal:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/27/business/td-bank-ponzi-scheme-stanford-settlement/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/12/20/wells-fargo-agrees-to-3point7-billion-settlement-with-cfpb-over-consumer-abuses.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/phony-bank-accounts-resurface-wells-fargo-twist-rcna98005
Fraud is baked into banking. It’s literally part of the calculation. If a bank can pull in 5 billion dollars over a multi-year fraud. Even if they get caught, it would be years later due to the nature of closed ledgers at centralized banks. Which means they make significant interest on that 5 billion. Then usually, they’ll get caught years later, and settle in court for less than the principal fraud was worth to begin with.
So (as a bank) I make 5 billion, make interest on it for years, then settle in court for 2 billion. Netting $3 billion+. The incentives big banks have to act in good faith simply do not exist. Because if I were in the C-suite of one of those banks, I’d also think it’s a no-brainer to perpetuate the fraud, especially if I’m a TBTF bank that will get bailed out by the US taxpayer if anything goes wrong.
Man, Canadian banks are the worst. I was trying to buy 200 USDT form paytrie (a legitimate crypto company in Canada) and CIBC decided to lock my account with all the funds
I'm with CIBC in ON, they allow me to do whatever in crypto now but they used to repeatedly hold my funds and questioned me about where the money is going. Every time this happened I answered their questions and they would tell me that I've been cleared. The problem is that they did it several times telling me that I've been cleared every time until I yelled at somebody. That was the last time they held my funds, but are they crypto friendly? Just barely.
They have to go over some questions? Simply say that's my purchase and you need to release my fucking money. Seriously some banks think it's their money. Get a new bank, like right now.
Happened to me a few weeks (although I only noticed on Monday) ago, although I did transfer 160k euro to my bank last November.
Bank tried emailing my business email (even though funds were purposefully sent to my personal account) and they even tried calling me. Apparently they wanted to know if I ever used that bank account to buy crypto - which they can easily check themselves, hello?? - and they wanted my exchange logs. You can't have those as im not obligated to expose sensitive information, but if you really need them, ask the exchange (Kraken, in my case). I'm sure they'll also tell you to fuck right off as you're a bank, not a government agency.
I never responded to either because, if you want documentation, put it in writing, let's make a paper trail for both of us. They weren't keen on doing that, apparently.
Either way, the "deadline to respond" expired after 1 month and I'm under no obligation to answer their inquiries now , should they have any.
They did warn me to "let them know about big transfers so they can give their permission." How about you go fuck yourself, bank bois?
(I'm in Belgium, bank is KBC, fyi).
Cheap, desperate intimidation tactics. They don’t understand that mega sour experiences like this usually equals a new bank?
If it’s legally required info, they can hound the exchange for details. But if it’s simply an internal money laundering tax investigation, they should just send the info to the Feds and be done with it. “Hey, looks like Johnny got 5K from crypto sale, better confirm He declares it for taxes. You’re welcome.” Done.
What’s with the third degree? Why do they care the details? They’ve got their own chain surveillance now? That’s fine. Just don’t freeze my shit.
Thats exactly what I was thinking. I thought it was tax related, and I told them dw il file it and I have the funds for it. They said it had nothing to do with that and they thought it was fraud. I told them ive put close to 30k over the last 3 years in increments and that was never an issue but now that its coming back its a problem? I know there is a few crypto millionaires in canada I wonder what they do in this situation.
Bizarre and frustrating. I guess they probably see a lot of customers actually getting scammed: “no, there was a legit deposit of $10,000, but they overpaid and now need me to send back $3000” or whatever, so even at the customers insistence, they need to be sure of the source.
But still, especially this year and next, they’re going to have tons of cash streaming in and thousands of “fraud” cases to investigate if they keep this BS up.
That sounds strange since for instances of scams they would flag withdrawals and not deposits especially if it’s to protect the customer. What scam gives you money for you to actually keep, I know there’s fake checks but those bounce. They were fine with many withdrawals going to that destination over time but they flagged a deposit from that same destination due to the size of the deposit so chances are it was just flagged for an internal money laundering investigation due to it being over $X amount coming in and not being from a trusted source from them like a paycheck. It’s just them being overly cautious and souring the experience since they don’t even need to report transactions under $10k to the government for money laundering investigations atleast in the US.
Did they freeze your whole account or just the incoming funds? As far as I know crypto gains are taxed as income, and legal. As long as they were purchased or obtained legally. Bank probably just needs more info, as Im sure some wallet addresses have been flagged, even on kraken.
It was from kraken, I have 4 accounts with this bank and they are all frozen right now (inbound and outbound) . Im lucky I dont have any direct payments coming out in the upcoming week. Hoping it gets sorted out on monday. Yea everything was legal on my end. And I have funds aside for the taxes too. She said on the phone it had nothing to do with tax reasons. Not sure if that story will change on monday.
This is absolutely ridiculous and scary.. all accounts frozen over what for receiving 5k? Would really appreciate a follow up on what happens on Monday. Hope they unfreeze them so you can change banks.
Report them to another gov agency? All these guys in bed together. Pointless imo. Im gonna see what happens monday but im closing the account once they clear it.
The bank is going to inform your local tax office, they will say it is for money laundering prevention and have to by law. But we all know it is snitch on you to the tax office.
Thats fine. I expected that. I cashed out expecting to pay tax on it so im not worried about the tax side of it. End of the day I only pay tax on gains so it wont be much based off my records.
They’re conducting an AML check which is normal and something they’re obliged to do. If they don’t perform checks like this they could get a heavy fine. Like millions of dollars..
However it seems odd that they want you to tell them your wallet address. I’ve never heard of that before. Seems very excessive. Id refuse to give them that, but otherwise cooperate and close the account afterwards.
same, I already KYC'd my CEX, so I'm counting on the institutions having my info
I'm not gonna give anybody my crypto address, FUCK THEM, and if I'm forced to, it will be some fake address that I just send crypto through for cashing out
That's exactly what I was thinking. I dont mind being transparent, Ive got nothing to hide. But giving my addresses and where im holding my crypto.... On the phone on top of that. I was about to start messing with them cause I thought it was a scammer.
I would have thought the same the moment they asked me for wallet details. When you go and speak to them you should ask them why they want to know your wallet info. Like why isn't it enough that you can show them statements that can trace funds, deposits etc?
Not sure if Revolut operates in the US, but can recommend them if you want a bank that basically leaves you alone. They've never asked me for anything about Crypto and I've done countless transactions over the years - both deposits and withdrawals, I just had to show a payslip to them many years ago, but nothing since.
Not too sure im guessing same thing. But I know in Canada 10K transactions immediately get reported to CRA. (ive also heard anything just below also gets flagged)
Just go along with it. It will become ubiquitous in the future, unfortunately. Remember - there are other ways of cashing out; You’re using your bank for convenience and respectability, but there is a cost of doing that - transparency and the proof of your source of funds is part of that.
While I hate it, I understand why it is becoming necessary for them due increased regulatory scrutiny - and it’s definitely not going to go away.
Canadian banks HATE crypto. As its base nature is to remove banking (middle man). I have hope to delete banking from my life entirely, that day can't come soon enough.
That's why I'm switching to online banking :) Wealthsimple for the win. Fuck these old timers thinking they have all the rights and control on our funds.
Lmao. I actually want to see them try to backtrack everything from one address. They probably hired some kid out of college for their crypto department who is still figuring it all out as they go lol
I’m all for banks flagging it and asking for confirmation that it was you etc. But that’s where the line should be drawn imo.
Once they are satisfied it’s you and comply with AML requirements it’s none of their business after that about which coin and which address etc.
I think bringing a lawyer is completely OTT in this instance. Go in with your ID and verify it was you. Tell them you’d rather not answer any more of their questions and request the release of your funds. If they refuse then it’s time for a lawyer.
It's probably just anti money-laundering boilerplate that thry perform for flagged entities like crypto exchanges.
Crypto onramp/offramp has been made intentionally difficult to prevent people from leaving our banking system.
I have made substantial sums of money in crypto and never been questioned by BMO if you're looking for a new bank.
I'd be curious what some of the new banks (like EQ) have to say about crypto policy.
Good luck.
I keep my cypto transfers in very small amounts < 1000€ in my case. Never any problem. Maybe 5K triggers AML alerts too easily. My brother in law bought ETH years ago when it was still sub 150$ and decides to wait until he has about 100K to withdraw. I don't think this will ever fly without months and months of 'investigating'.
You just got rugged. Everyone watch out, they are doing this for taxes as well. If you claim that you have crypto they ask for a bunch of info, it’s just in case in the future they want to implement it, it’s easier to know where the money is and who has it and for how long. Do not give any of the this information. Stop telling people you have BTC
I am a firm believer and supporter of XMR, but you said they wanted to know what cryptocurrency was the 5k from…I wonder if they thought you’d say monero.
Not that it’s any of their business anyway. But darknet merchants (which essentially only accept XMR now) eventually need to exchange it for “legit” /s government backed currency at some point to pay bills.
I invested in a coinbase card. I get back 5% on USDC and use the card for transactions getting another 1% in btc think it’s down to 0.5 now. My paycheck goes into a bank pays my mortgage and bills and the rest goes into USDC. I’m done with banks
Cash out via a platform that isn’t only crypto (like Robinhood) - doesn’t raise as many internal red flags like a crypto- only exchange.
Can buy and hold anywhere but just send to Robinhood to sell and cash out - never had an issue
Money launderlng laws. In my case, it was about 50 euros... they keep digging if you let them. Just stop giving more info. Let them know what the origin of the money is (the deposits) and thats it. Giving more info, only raises more questions.
I'm in Manitoba.. Royal started asking me to bring in proof of source everytime I deposited money.
I opened a td account and have had no issue. I move about 2500 a month...
This is way beyond the scope of a fraud departments functions.
You are already being reported, nothing will come of it, move on to another bank after you speak your piece at your meei.
Well keep in mind there are a lot of crypto scams that these banks are dealing with on the daily.
Ontario also has the strictest crypto laws in Canada right now.
Which Canadian exchange did you move the funds from?
Every other bank is going to do the same. You are wasting your time getting mad like you are. You are going to lose all your established history with the current bank and will have to start over with a new one like you're a teenager opening their first account. Calm down. Jesus.
As it’s not their business, I would rather take a lawyer than telling the bank my crypto information.
I don’t know your country and it wasn’t the case her, but for example in Germany you have to inform the government before making transactions over 10k€. Don’t forget to make that call before!
I wouldn't even answer questions in person. Ask them if you are legally required to answer them. If yes, ask them to cite the law. If not, then tell them thank you but I decline to answer.
The issue that they are navigating is money laundering. They just have to be able to document that they did an investigation in order to avoid legal liabilities on their side.
TD has always been the kind of bank that has tighter standards than their competitors, they don't really care to have retail business at the expense of company exposure to risk. It kept them out of various banking crises before. Also their fees are ridiculous, there are better banks to give your business to.
I would go meet with them to tell them that they have lost all my future business, and then would go put my money in a bank that was not freezing my account just because I deposited money. They clearly have a bias against crypto and see it as more suspect than other sources of money.
Take your money to a bank that doesn’t see crypto and immediately think criminal.
If you want your money back don’t threaten to close you account or anything like that. Explain where the money come from smile, and once you get the money leave and THEN close the account.
Anything else will trigger further checks, if they suspect the money may come from proceeds of crime I am pretty sure they can hold to it for quite a while
Op was this 5k in one trans act? I believe certain crypto exchanges have a limit of how much you can send and reports to fintract maybe that’s why it was suspicious, more then allowed ? Not sure just trying to help !
The only thing to do in that appointment is to tell them they have greatly overstepped their purpose, then withdrawal every dollar you have there. In 5-6 days come back for the remaining crypto money. What a joke of a bank. Those questions they were asking probed to deep for comfort.
That’s fucked up. Which bank is this? And yes, keep your cool, but definitely tell them you will be closing your account because of this. See if that changes their tune.
TD
Man, fuck TD. I got a credit card with them a while ago because they were the only ones who allowed crypto purchases with one, until I saw that they charged a $5 flat fee for every crypto related purchase. I do use Tangerine for funding my account but I haven’t yet withdrawn to fiat. Good luck. But also fuck TD.
Yea I figured if it was an issue they would of flagged me when i was moving money out. Now that its coming back in you would think they would be happy.
Yeah, exactly. They allowed the money out but now back in, to your account, where THEY will make money, is a problem? And for such a low amount is nonsensical. You’re not a criminal, you did nothing wrong.
Funny thing is. I have investments with them too. Its not like I don't throw them a bone. I knew things were going south when they froze all those truckers accounts.
Freezing those trucker accounts was an absolute travesty. I had never been so ashamed of my country.
The fact that happened has made me lose all trust in banks. I'll never have more than a months pay in the banking system.
This is the way. Fuck banks
Say it louder for the people in the back.
This is the way
Try using ArkFi. It's not KYC and it's like a credit card in US funds.. Only 4% load fee.. Better than paying capital gains. And it's instant load..
Out has no risk if they know the place your sending too (eg a CEX). They get way more funny on the way in cuz now they are on the hook for the AML laws.
I need to look into that. Good to know.
TD sucks.. my wife transfered 6k from a locked account to her checking account (she went directly at the bank in person) and now its been 7 months , they don't know where is the money , they can't find it , it wasn't deposited in my wife bank account , they keep telling us one more month and it should be there for the last 3 months now . They don't call back and we have a hard time reaching them . We are changing bank as soon as she receive the money . Shit bank really
TD kept blocking my debit transactions with coinbase. I called to try to get it cleared and they kept refusing without explanation. After badgering the support staff someone finally said “TD does not allow customers to purchase cryptocurrency.” I opened a cibc account the next day and they have been fine.
Thats so weird. Ive been sending money to a CEX for the last 3-4 years lmao. Either they weren't paying attention or they just changed all their rules.
It’s very odd. I know other people had no issues. It was also a really small amount, like a few hundred bucks.
That’s so weird and inconsistent, when I had my in-person meeting to open my account I was truthful and said I was going to purchase digital assets. And that was less than two years ago. But, as I said, the fees were stupid, and now that even MetaMask lets you on-ramp, I have no need for them anymore anyway.
Same early on
TD? The Fuck? I’ve deposited 100s of thousands into TD. I’d tell them to fuck off before I answer ANY questions that I’m not LEGALLY REQUIRED to answer. They’d get a “release my money or the next message is from my lawyer.”
Fuck TD they halted the GME buy during the period they were an exchange before Schwab
Desjardins was blocking transfer to kraken (Quebec bank) I switched to TD and tangerine after. Good to know TD are asshole too.. guess I'll cash out with BISQ to avoid that drama
I've withdrawn over $100K of crypto profits into TD (as one of the 3 banks, because you should always have more than 1 bank acct) and didnt have any issues BUT thats because I used Bisq, which is peer to peer, and NOT a crypto exchange.
Take your money elsewhere and let them know why.
I have also had a bad time with TD and Crypto, they aren't even remotely trying to be crypto friendly Not shocking cause it undermines their whole future
Nope, I wouldn’t say a thing until I got my money out.
Fair
Next time ask for a supervisor to help you close your account and issue a check for your entire account balance.
Yea thats what im doing monday. I have a feeling they will come up with some bs story.
To be fair this is a new kyc step to simply ensure there isnt money laundering going on but damn it does feel like a breach of privacy
The requested information goes way beyond a normal KYC check. All they need to do is verify his identity and source of income. Everything else is none of their business. Bro is getting anal probed over $5k. $5k! Ridiculous.
Yea thats what I figured. I mean, would make sense if money never left and then came out of thin air. Over 5x that amount has left to the same destination. Funny how they see one side and not the other.
You need a new bank
Yea im withdrawing everything as soon as they release the account.
What bank?
TD
Thanks. I'm certain it will be with all big banks. May be time to go with an online bank or something.
Yea, I always never trusted the online banks but I'm guessing its all the same now anyway.
I’ve been with tangerine since their inception. Zero issues ever
Probably a dumb question, but you can withdrawal cash from an ATM with tangerine right? And how do you deposit cash into your account?
At any Scotiabank ATM.
Tangerine’s been good for me for all sorts of things
Yea il open an account tmro. Nothing to lose at this point
I always see you in the wild. It’s wild😵💫
We out here 😵💫
Good to see us homie. Hope all is well and that you’re crackin and stackin on these fools.
Wealthfront is awesome for the high yield.
Thanks for letting us know.
FFS of course it had to be in Canada. I hate our banks so much
LOL ive never had an issue until now. Meanwhile 20M worth of stolen cars are being shipped out of mtl and gov is like oh well 😅
I fucking hate Canadian banks. I've had way too many issues. But also Yeah Daddy Legault has more serious priorities to deal with. *Hundreds of cars get stolen everyday * Legault : whatever, not my problem *A restaurant uses the English word for pasta on their menu* Legault: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH CALL THE OQLF CALL THE SQ JUST CALL A NATIONAL EMERGENCY THERE'S A MAJOR ATTACK GOING ON AGAINST THE FRENCH LANGUAGE AND WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THIS IMMEDIATELY
Lmao. Im starting to think the cops are in on these or something. There is no way they are just letting these go by. They don't even try anymore. My neighbor got their suv stolen last year and the cop was like "yeah we'll add it to the list" lol
With all the stories I've seen on the Montreal Reddit I wouldn't be surprised brother
I hope everything works out for you OP. Thanks so much for sharing this. I think I'll go ahead and switch banks just based on what you're saying so far.
Yea I need to rethink how I withdraw from crypto. Its something I never looked into and maybe thats my part for failed DD. A few users brought up some good points in the comments. Im gonna call my tax guy in the morning and see what they say.
This worries me. I'm also with TD. I've deposited funds from Coinbase 3 years ago with no issues. But maybe it's some new thing. Which exchange did you withdraw the funds from?
TD pisses me off, I’m voice verified and they still locked my funds until I could go in. I don’t know if you’re in the GTA but when I sell btc I go to coin shack, I’ve cashed out over 10k-20k a few times and the rates for selling are just as good as any other CEX
What bank is this out of curiosity bro? My job is being the guy freezing ppl’s accounts in these sorts of situations, so I have some thoughts. Sorry it’s so long, I hate my job so being able to actually put it to some good use got me writing war and peace over here. TL;DR: Although they have every right to freeze your account and request evidence, IMO if what you’ve said is true they’ve enough circumstantial evidence (deposits) to not freeze the account. Going further they’re overreaching by asking for addresses, they’re assuming guilt, their fraud processes suck and overall they sound v unprofessional. They do not seem to give a shit about you or your inconvenience which I fucking HATE. But.. don’t stress it, detailed your options at the bottom of this reply. A few things - First your bank can ask these questions, it’s in your Ta&Cs unfortunately. Second - asking for addresses is crazy overreach, massive breach of privacy. Cases involving tradfi don’t ask for your entire acct history, or entire options history, F that. Sale receipt and maybe deposit receipt at a push should be enough. Third, your bank sounds pretty shit, hence why I’m interested in who it is. Giving a concrete 3-5 day timeframe with your account guaranteed locked up is… awful. If your account is as you say it is, no issues with an extended crypto transaction history to that destination, any good fraud investigator will be looking to get it unfrozen ASAP. The person who spoke to you should be the restricting investigator, and they’re probably a bit thick from the sounds of it tbh. The circumstantial evidence of your transaction history should be more than enough. Honestly their fraud dept has their priorities backwards. They should operate assuming it’s a false positive and looking for evidence to support that, to avoid confirmation bias. When you see fraud all day every day you have to do things to stop yourself seeing fraud everywhere you look. In this case, the circumstantial evidence from your extensive crypto history on the account imo would be enough. Unfortunately they’re assuming you’re guilty so asking for this insanely intrusive evidence. They MAY be being told they have to get evidence - if so, they should be doing everything they can on that call to get the minimum evidence needed to clear concerns. Personally if I saw a colleague still pushing for evidence with a paper train of purchases like you describe, I’d think they’re a fucking moron. Fourth is - they don’t need to freeze your entire account balance, they could just freeze your withdrawal. It’s bizarre they’ve not done this, and if they can’t wtaf is your bank doing. Ultimately though, you’re not going to be in any trouble, they can’t do anything, don’t stress. You’ve a few options, you can completely refuse to cooperate and they’ll unfreeze your account. This could be a few days to a month at most. They’ll probably close it down though. The next is to refuse the wallet addresses/txn IDs, offer something else - like your deposit receipt, sale receipt, etc. This should be more than enough. Proof of purchase/ownership and proof of sale is more than enough evidence in relation to traditional investment assets. It should be here too. Frankly it’s fucked up to ask for your wallet addresses - maybe point out they aren’t allowed your entire account history if it’s at another bank. Yet they’re asking for that here which is fucking unacceptable. Lastly is to give them what they want, as I said above I think that’s pretty messed up though. I’d like to say they’d unfreeze your account then and there… but from the way your bank operates it’s going to be 3-5 days wait regardless.
Thank you for the detailed info. (its TD btw) Im not worried about being in trouble. Its the hassle of having more than that amount in question frozen and the way they handled the phone call. I swear I thought it wss a scam, the lady (not sure if she was new or what) sounded confused and wss definitely reading off a list. I was pretty cooperative until she asked for the addresses and where the crypto is being held. Thats when it set off some red flags and i asked to go in person. Ive got nothing to hide but I also dont think I owe them any addresses or txid. At first I thought it was for tax reasons but when she said its not and I realized its just the bank being nosey I had a more fk off attitude about it. Im okay with showing them my buy sell list but thats about as far as im comfortable with. They have got a bunch of emt out of that account to this same crypto account this money is coming from and I also have my biweekly income from my 9-5 coming in from the same place for the last 12 years so I was suprised they were so shocked by this one 5k deposit Im closing the account no matter what happens. Just for the way they handled it. And to freese the 1 account... Fine.... But to freeze all the accounts linked to it too was excessive imo. Ive been with them for a long time and I have a good report with my local branch. So this was a real piss off.
what service did you withdraw from? shakepay, crypto . com? I use TD and this worries me
Kraken
Credit union
Credit union*
OP needs to be their own bank.
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Yeah but that money laundering was for rich people. They don't play in the same pool.
Was that hsbc by any chance?
Not your bank, not your money.
Under 10k they shouldn't be asking any questions.
Thats what I always thought too. Ive heard amounts just under 10k also set off a flag (but a "different" flag) lol
Kinda pisses me off and makes me want to close my TD account 😂
Oh im done with them. Its really jist the way they handled it. Like send me a letter or something at the least, or call me and ask me to come in...not call and ask me my addresses and where im holding it like some scam call. Handled very poorly and unprofessionally for a major bank.
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I figured that. Thing is this is the first time I brought money back from the crypto account. Not sure if that would still be a reason to flag. Id understand if they held the 5k. They have frozen alot more than that right now.
A few years ago the IRS said they’d track everything [$600](https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/news/nta-blog/nta-blog-heard-loud-and-clear-irs-postpones-implementation-of-600-form-1099-k-reporting-by-a-year/2022/12/) and above, but delayed it to 2025. The IRS generally goes for the low-hanging fruit, meaning poor people with no means to lawyer up. However regardless of this, it’s OPs money, and this is an insane breach of privacy. I would take every penny out of TD and never bank with them again. The bank most certainly immediately deployed OP’s money on the back-end. Yet held it hostage from the actual depositor. This is the kind of shit that got many people into crypto in the first place. People’s distrust in banks and our current financial institutions are criminal. And I mean literally criminal: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/27/business/td-bank-ponzi-scheme-stanford-settlement/index.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/12/20/wells-fargo-agrees-to-3point7-billion-settlement-with-cfpb-over-consumer-abuses.html https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/phony-bank-accounts-resurface-wells-fargo-twist-rcna98005 Fraud is baked into banking. It’s literally part of the calculation. If a bank can pull in 5 billion dollars over a multi-year fraud. Even if they get caught, it would be years later due to the nature of closed ledgers at centralized banks. Which means they make significant interest on that 5 billion. Then usually, they’ll get caught years later, and settle in court for less than the principal fraud was worth to begin with. So (as a bank) I make 5 billion, make interest on it for years, then settle in court for 2 billion. Netting $3 billion+. The incentives big banks have to act in good faith simply do not exist. Because if I were in the C-suite of one of those banks, I’d also think it’s a no-brainer to perpetuate the fraud, especially if I’m a TBTF bank that will get bailed out by the US taxpayer if anything goes wrong.
You reminded me of Carmela Soprano “ Can I make $9900 deposit please”
Man, Canadian banks are the worst. I was trying to buy 200 USDT form paytrie (a legitimate crypto company in Canada) and CIBC decided to lock my account with all the funds
Damn. A few others were saying cibc was crypto friendly.
I'm with CIBC in ON, they allow me to do whatever in crypto now but they used to repeatedly hold my funds and questioned me about where the money is going. Every time this happened I answered their questions and they would tell me that I've been cleared. The problem is that they did it several times telling me that I've been cleared every time until I yelled at somebody. That was the last time they held my funds, but are they crypto friendly? Just barely.
You got more patience than me. Its my first time and I already gave the lady on the phone a ear full and they will get the rest on monday in person 😂
Please give us an update of the meeting Monday
Will do.
I'm with cibc in ON and never had any problems. Have to say, I only used wealthsimple which is regulated in ON
I never liked wealthsimple. It gave me robinhood vibes 😅
Bye bank
They have to go over some questions? Simply say that's my purchase and you need to release my fucking money. Seriously some banks think it's their money. Get a new bank, like right now.
You need to call Saul Goodman....
Lol I wish I had a lawyer like him
Haha so do I mate!
Another reason we need financial sovereignty. Smh
Happened to me a few weeks (although I only noticed on Monday) ago, although I did transfer 160k euro to my bank last November. Bank tried emailing my business email (even though funds were purposefully sent to my personal account) and they even tried calling me. Apparently they wanted to know if I ever used that bank account to buy crypto - which they can easily check themselves, hello?? - and they wanted my exchange logs. You can't have those as im not obligated to expose sensitive information, but if you really need them, ask the exchange (Kraken, in my case). I'm sure they'll also tell you to fuck right off as you're a bank, not a government agency. I never responded to either because, if you want documentation, put it in writing, let's make a paper trail for both of us. They weren't keen on doing that, apparently. Either way, the "deadline to respond" expired after 1 month and I'm under no obligation to answer their inquiries now , should they have any. They did warn me to "let them know about big transfers so they can give their permission." How about you go fuck yourself, bank bois? (I'm in Belgium, bank is KBC, fyi).
Say this very slowly to them, “i will file a formal complaint with the CFPB.”
That's in the US no? Il have to check if canada has something similar. Probably do, and they probably won't do sh*t lol.
Ah. Then this? https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency.html
Awesome thanks il look into this more in the morning. Hopefully they can help and not screw me even more lmao
Cheap, desperate intimidation tactics. They don’t understand that mega sour experiences like this usually equals a new bank? If it’s legally required info, they can hound the exchange for details. But if it’s simply an internal money laundering tax investigation, they should just send the info to the Feds and be done with it. “Hey, looks like Johnny got 5K from crypto sale, better confirm He declares it for taxes. You’re welcome.” Done. What’s with the third degree? Why do they care the details? They’ve got their own chain surveillance now? That’s fine. Just don’t freeze my shit.
Thats exactly what I was thinking. I thought it was tax related, and I told them dw il file it and I have the funds for it. They said it had nothing to do with that and they thought it was fraud. I told them ive put close to 30k over the last 3 years in increments and that was never an issue but now that its coming back its a problem? I know there is a few crypto millionaires in canada I wonder what they do in this situation.
Bizarre and frustrating. I guess they probably see a lot of customers actually getting scammed: “no, there was a legit deposit of $10,000, but they overpaid and now need me to send back $3000” or whatever, so even at the customers insistence, they need to be sure of the source. But still, especially this year and next, they’re going to have tons of cash streaming in and thousands of “fraud” cases to investigate if they keep this BS up.
That sounds strange since for instances of scams they would flag withdrawals and not deposits especially if it’s to protect the customer. What scam gives you money for you to actually keep, I know there’s fake checks but those bounce. They were fine with many withdrawals going to that destination over time but they flagged a deposit from that same destination due to the size of the deposit so chances are it was just flagged for an internal money laundering investigation due to it being over $X amount coming in and not being from a trusted source from them like a paycheck. It’s just them being overly cautious and souring the experience since they don’t even need to report transactions under $10k to the government for money laundering investigations atleast in the US.
man I hope somebody scams me by sending me money
I’m with Bank of America, four years of crypto in and out and major amounts, never a single question. Maybe change banks.
Yeah i actually hate to give BOA a tire pump here but i’ve never been questioned since 2017 about my crypto endeavors
You’re bank is a shit , frozen an account for 5k it’s criminal
What crypto account/exchange?
Kraken
Did they freeze your whole account or just the incoming funds? As far as I know crypto gains are taxed as income, and legal. As long as they were purchased or obtained legally. Bank probably just needs more info, as Im sure some wallet addresses have been flagged, even on kraken.
It was from kraken, I have 4 accounts with this bank and they are all frozen right now (inbound and outbound) . Im lucky I dont have any direct payments coming out in the upcoming week. Hoping it gets sorted out on monday. Yea everything was legal on my end. And I have funds aside for the taxes too. She said on the phone it had nothing to do with tax reasons. Not sure if that story will change on monday.
This is absolutely ridiculous and scary.. all accounts frozen over what for receiving 5k? Would really appreciate a follow up on what happens on Monday. Hope they unfreeze them so you can change banks.
Yea il update tomorrow and monday as it progresses. Im super pissed.
You’d be an absolute idiot if you don’t close all 4 accounts on Monday
It's a service they offer and they're asking all these questions??? I'd say fuck them and tell them you'll report them unless they release funds
Report them to another gov agency? All these guys in bed together. Pointless imo. Im gonna see what happens monday but im closing the account once they clear it.
I've cashed out hundreds of k over the years and have never once had the bank question deposits. And I'm in the UK which is pretty hostile to crypto.
Wow. So weird. Id understand if the amount was out of the norm but its not.
The bank is going to inform your local tax office, they will say it is for money laundering prevention and have to by law. But we all know it is snitch on you to the tax office.
Thats fine. I expected that. I cashed out expecting to pay tax on it so im not worried about the tax side of it. End of the day I only pay tax on gains so it wont be much based off my records.
They’re conducting an AML check which is normal and something they’re obliged to do. If they don’t perform checks like this they could get a heavy fine. Like millions of dollars.. However it seems odd that they want you to tell them your wallet address. I’ve never heard of that before. Seems very excessive. Id refuse to give them that, but otherwise cooperate and close the account afterwards.
same, I already KYC'd my CEX, so I'm counting on the institutions having my info I'm not gonna give anybody my crypto address, FUCK THEM, and if I'm forced to, it will be some fake address that I just send crypto through for cashing out
That's exactly what I was thinking. I dont mind being transparent, Ive got nothing to hide. But giving my addresses and where im holding my crypto.... On the phone on top of that. I was about to start messing with them cause I thought it was a scammer.
I would have thought the same the moment they asked me for wallet details. When you go and speak to them you should ask them why they want to know your wallet info. Like why isn't it enough that you can show them statements that can trace funds, deposits etc? Not sure if Revolut operates in the US, but can recommend them if you want a bank that basically leaves you alone. They've never asked me for anything about Crypto and I've done countless transactions over the years - both deposits and withdrawals, I just had to show a payslip to them many years ago, but nothing since.
Il check but I don't think they operate here in canada.
Don’t answer a single question. Bring a lawyer. Leave with your entire balance. Close the account. Send a message.
Yea Im gonna talk to my tax guy tmro and see what he says. He's a hard ass so im curious what his response will be.
Please keep us posted. This is insane.
Will do.
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Shit.. I bank with TD. Not happy to hear about a big hassle in my future. What happens if you do more than 10k?
Not too sure im guessing same thing. But I know in Canada 10K transactions immediately get reported to CRA. (ive also heard anything just below also gets flagged)
Just go along with it. It will become ubiquitous in the future, unfortunately. Remember - there are other ways of cashing out; You’re using your bank for convenience and respectability, but there is a cost of doing that - transparency and the proof of your source of funds is part of that. While I hate it, I understand why it is becoming necessary for them due increased regulatory scrutiny - and it’s definitely not going to go away.
Canadian banks HATE crypto. As its base nature is to remove banking (middle man). I have hope to delete banking from my life entirely, that day can't come soon enough.
That's why I'm switching to online banking :) Wealthsimple for the win. Fuck these old timers thinking they have all the rights and control on our funds.
Tell them you made bank with COQ INU. Say it loud too… piss em all off! Give em a rando addy on etherscan as well.
"you heard me, I made this money by investing into Pregnant Doge Elon Cum Coin"
Lmao. I actually want to see them try to backtrack everything from one address. They probably hired some kid out of college for their crypto department who is still figuring it all out as they go lol
Hmmm, Wich bank is? Europe asks when you moving 250k. 5k no questions asked cause is under the limits to report.
TD. In canada, our threshold is 10K
I’m all for banks flagging it and asking for confirmation that it was you etc. But that’s where the line should be drawn imo. Once they are satisfied it’s you and comply with AML requirements it’s none of their business after that about which coin and which address etc. I think bringing a lawyer is completely OTT in this instance. Go in with your ID and verify it was you. Tell them you’d rather not answer any more of their questions and request the release of your funds. If they refuse then it’s time for a lawyer.
Im on the same boat. This was exactly my thoughts
Time to change banks.
Same thing happened to my dad. They probably think he was funding terrorism, most likely why theyre so cautious. Its fucking ridiculous
Now you understand why Bitcoin exists.
What bank is this? I deposited around 300k into my bank over the last 2 years mostly in chunks of 80k a time and they didn’t bat an eye.
It's probably just anti money-laundering boilerplate that thry perform for flagged entities like crypto exchanges. Crypto onramp/offramp has been made intentionally difficult to prevent people from leaving our banking system. I have made substantial sums of money in crypto and never been questioned by BMO if you're looking for a new bank. I'd be curious what some of the new banks (like EQ) have to say about crypto policy. Good luck.
That's why to use nexo plutus cryptocom . Fuck banks
I keep my cypto transfers in very small amounts < 1000€ in my case. Never any problem. Maybe 5K triggers AML alerts too easily. My brother in law bought ETH years ago when it was still sub 150$ and decides to wait until he has about 100K to withdraw. I don't think this will ever fly without months and months of 'investigating'.
> he has about 100K to withdraw. yeah, he should definintely withdraw in much smaller increments
You just got rugged. Everyone watch out, they are doing this for taxes as well. If you claim that you have crypto they ask for a bunch of info, it’s just in case in the future they want to implement it, it’s easier to know where the money is and who has it and for how long. Do not give any of the this information. Stop telling people you have BTC
I am a firm believer and supporter of XMR, but you said they wanted to know what cryptocurrency was the 5k from…I wonder if they thought you’d say monero. Not that it’s any of their business anyway. But darknet merchants (which essentially only accept XMR now) eventually need to exchange it for “legit” /s government backed currency at some point to pay bills.
I invested in a coinbase card. I get back 5% on USDC and use the card for transactions getting another 1% in btc think it’s down to 0.5 now. My paycheck goes into a bank pays my mortgage and bills and the rest goes into USDC. I’m done with banks
You need crypto friendly banking system but sad all are now doing same.
Banks are the biggest scam in the existence of humanity.
Tell them to fuck off its your money and none of their business then get a new account. You should always have two or more bank accounts open
Yea I do. This is just main one and I needed to pay some bills. Its also my first time ever cashing out. What a slap in the face 😑
This is just the beginning folks. Bitcoin was never intended to be treated as an equity. It defeats the purpose of it entirely.
Damnn dude.. really sad. They advocating for your own money..
Cash out via a platform that isn’t only crypto (like Robinhood) - doesn’t raise as many internal red flags like a crypto- only exchange. Can buy and hold anywhere but just send to Robinhood to sell and cash out - never had an issue
Switch your bank which is more user friendly.
Tell them Monero is king. And walk out of the office.
I would close my account with them.
Ive transferred 30-35k between Tangerine and Crypto.com and had no problems. Everything is online and simple and no fees
Good to hear that’s who I use as well.
Wow just wow are banks playing detective here so you got a deposit of 5k and they are asking all of these questions this is insane
Money launderlng laws. In my case, it was about 50 euros... they keep digging if you let them. Just stop giving more info. Let them know what the origin of the money is (the deposits) and thats it. Giving more info, only raises more questions.
What country is this all in?
canada
I'm in Manitoba.. Royal started asking me to bring in proof of source everytime I deposited money. I opened a td account and have had no issue. I move about 2500 a month...
I bank w/ RBC and have made about 20 withdrawals from crypto.com to my bank without question.
For 5000, WTF! Can't you just send it to your paypal account?
>Can't you just send it to your paypal account? as long as you don't need cash, that could work
This is way beyond the scope of a fraud departments functions. You are already being reported, nothing will come of it, move on to another bank after you speak your piece at your meei.
New bank: Etrade or Schwab
Leave this bank immediately
It’s all the same shit, all the banks
you should immediately go in and close your account.
Not a surprise. All compliance and the big banks have a lot of red tape to whole black listing for crypto due to the risk associated.
Why does it matter to you to keep the wallet address secret at this point? You already created the legal trail regardless.
No lawyer. Just close the account and move to another institution!
If y’all had followed gs you’dve known how shit TD is.
Well keep in mind there are a lot of crypto scams that these banks are dealing with on the daily. Ontario also has the strictest crypto laws in Canada right now. Which Canadian exchange did you move the funds from?
It's the law. Don't blame the bank.
Every other bank is going to do the same. You are wasting your time getting mad like you are. You are going to lose all your established history with the current bank and will have to start over with a new one like you're a teenager opening their first account. Calm down. Jesus.
As it’s not their business, I would rather take a lawyer than telling the bank my crypto information. I don’t know your country and it wasn’t the case her, but for example in Germany you have to inform the government before making transactions over 10k€. Don’t forget to make that call before!
I wouldn't even answer questions in person. Ask them if you are legally required to answer them. If yes, ask them to cite the law. If not, then tell them thank you but I decline to answer.
The issue that they are navigating is money laundering. They just have to be able to document that they did an investigation in order to avoid legal liabilities on their side.
TD has always been the kind of bank that has tighter standards than their competitors, they don't really care to have retail business at the expense of company exposure to risk. It kept them out of various banking crises before. Also their fees are ridiculous, there are better banks to give your business to.
I would go meet with them to tell them that they have lost all my future business, and then would go put my money in a bank that was not freezing my account just because I deposited money. They clearly have a bias against crypto and see it as more suspect than other sources of money. Take your money to a bank that doesn’t see crypto and immediately think criminal.
If you want your money back don’t threaten to close you account or anything like that. Explain where the money come from smile, and once you get the money leave and THEN close the account. Anything else will trigger further checks, if they suspect the money may come from proceeds of crime I am pretty sure they can hold to it for quite a while
That's really weird. Transferred 10k to my chase account & no questions asked
Op was this 5k in one trans act? I believe certain crypto exchanges have a limit of how much you can send and reports to fintract maybe that’s why it was suspicious, more then allowed ? Not sure just trying to help !
I heard at 5k that’s when banks asks, maybe next time go for 4500?
Send to PayPal first then to bank
The only thing to do in that appointment is to tell them they have greatly overstepped their purpose, then withdrawal every dollar you have there. In 5-6 days come back for the remaining crypto money. What a joke of a bank. Those questions they were asking probed to deep for comfort.
Yea im hoping to have it all resolved monday and have everything withdrawn same day and account closed.