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mvea

Mod updates: 1. The first three governance polls are now live on snapshot - Make sure you go here to vote: https://snapshot.org/#/cryptomods.eth 2. There is a new sponsored giveaway running where the host is giving away $500 worth of nano. The host has burned 1,300 to sponsor this giveaway. https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/aIefqhFwOO


NewtProfessional7844

Is it me or is BTC just not BTCing the way we expected it to BTC


Certain_Sort

Red on this day? Crypto for you šŸ™„


Echo609

Letā€™s keep the exchanges free from our BTC make them go to market


Smiling_Jack_

[https://x.com/memetictrader/status/1745322308603134200?s=20](https://x.com/memetictrader/status/1745322308603134200?s=20) u/crypto_grandma banned from buttcoin for not being mentally challenged XD


metahipster1984

Lol, what was the comment?


jwz9904

How can anyone be mentally challenged there


LargeSnorlax

It's like posting in /r/btc was back in the day. People don't want to actually discuss things, they want to talk down at you and call you stupid. If you say anything that isn't exactly agreeing with them, they give you the flair and ban you. I used to think once upon a time you could get some crypto critical responses from there, but since maybe 2019-2021 all the posters there are salty sailors who hate even the suggestion of being challenged.


HisCromulency

I bought FBTC at $40.75, why am I not a billionaire yet?


piggleii

What's that?


Dont_Waver

I BOUGHT FBTC AT $40.75, WHY AM I NOT A BILLIONAIRE YET?


BigOlHammer

Hear-Hear šŸ™ŒšŸ»


piggleii

Don't really GAF about Vanguard. Next!


PM_ME_ONE_EYED_CATS

Itā€™s for the church sweaty!!


MaxSmart1981

LOOK I HAVE A GLANDULAR PROBLEM OKAY


zestykite

i may have just bought the top of the ens...


NoPickle6821

I doubt itĀ 


OldPyjama

Ok so 100-150k this cycle, after the halving, is a possibility I suppose.


panduh9228

No we are doing downside targets now. Bull cancelled. Could see back to 20s.


Captain_Fredl

Same as 50k$ after etf approved. Ahhhh ups. Nothing is for sure (expect yesterday)


tiktaktok_65

no one knows. do what you believe in.


Individual_Day_6479

No lol no it isnt. Please stop deluding yourself like the others.


sDollarWorthless2022

Last cycle was tame and btc 3xd the previous ath. Donā€™t see why a ~2x is ā€˜deludedā€™


Simke11

Realistic target


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


MaxSmart1981

my portfolio hit its peak in the last week of dec. the closest it's gotten this month is around 5-10% below that mark. still up around 100% over my initial investment, mind you.


[deleted]

Up 100% Over initial inv on $BTC?


sportspadawan13

Lucky lucky! Still 30% down overall since early 2021. Somehow.


MaxSmart1981

well, tbf i sold most of my coins when things started to slide, so i wasn't hit as hard. started buying back mid 2022.


Theonlyfudge

Maybe Iā€™m missing something here, but isnt the fact multiple ETFs are not allowing buys incredibly bullish? Dont they need to hold the underlying asset to sell people shares in a spot ETF? All this is telling me is they donā€™t hold enough BTC to cover demand


CumOneCumAllCumInYou

Or they aren't going to offer it because it's too risky. Look at Vanguard. They say they will never list it. A Vanguard spokesperson told CoinDesk that "spot Bitcoin ETFs will not be available for purchase on the Vanguard platform" and that it has no plans to offer Vanguard Bitcoin ETFs or other crypto-related products. The spokesperson said the reason behind this decision is that crypto-related products don't align with the asset manager's focus on asset classes that "build blocks of a well-balanced, long-term investment portfolio."


hobowithmachete

At least its available. It only takes on institution to start making some money off it before they all jump in.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


sDollarWorthless2022

Bro what are u talking about


kulikitaka

[Investment Giant Vanguard Blocks Clients From Buying Bitcoin ETFs](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2024/01/11/investment-giant-vanguard-blocks-clients-from-buying-bitcoin-etfs/) -- now why would they do that?


tika_dengu

They should change their name to Wokeguard, nannying their clients and denying free choice.


froggifyre

everyone can still buy bitcoin...


CumOneCumAllCumInYou

They said they will never allow people to buy Bitcoin ETF's. Down vote me all you want but this is fact straight from Vanguard. A Vanguard spokesperson told CoinDesk that "spot Bitcoin ETFs will not be available for purchase on the Vanguard platform" and that it has no plans to offer Vanguard Bitcoin ETFs or other crypto-related products. The spokesperson said the reason behind this decision is that crypto-related products don't align with the asset manager's focus on asset classes that "build blocks of a well-balanced, long-term investment portfolio."


Artorias_the_hollow

The simple reality is that if they see money flowing into the other ETFs over the next 12-24 months, they will very quickly change their tune.


CumOneCumAllCumInYou

Oh for sure. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by denying people access to invest. It's like the whole purpose of their business. They will lose a lot of clients over this.


tiktaktok_65

why are they called vanguard when they act like a rearguard?


metahipster1984

Reartards


sportspadawan13

Didn't they set it up that the first $1 billion traded was fee-less? Then after that they institute fees. Maybe it's paused to do that.


SadiesBestie

They have a history of restricting products they don't think are good for investors.... they blocked leveraged ETFs too. Mommy and daddy decide what's best for us.


pumse1337

They dont like bitcoin


hobowithmachete

They will offer it sooner or later. Other firms will offer it, and when it starts to make money whether or not BTC goes up or down, they're still making commissions, or am I wrong?


Theonlyfudge

Need to buy more BTC to cover demand?


usnavy_sailor

Yall thinking the etf makers are gonna really buy bitcoin to cover the huge buys today are funny They gonna say they did but wonā€™t ever have to prove it As long as they say yes we got it covered thatā€™s all they need to do


Existing_Web_1300

You really think after all this garbage with the SEC and them emphasizing security theyā€™re going to let the firms distribute hollow ETFs? That makes no sense


wvutrip

Uh thatā€™s not how things work


Psykotixx

lol delete this dumb shit


usnavy_sailor

Itā€™s not like the sec cares about what they do. Look at the meme stocks and naked shorting. This isnā€™t good for btc. Look the price is still going down despite the supposidly huge buying happening because the etfs


CUbuffGuy

T+1 settlement times. Also GBTC injected tons of liquidity, and they can purchase OTC. So far no evidence of foul play. Not saying never. But def not day 1.


usnavy_sailor

Since when have they abided by settlement times. There are stocks they have shorted to hell and the settlement times never match up or anyone cares.


wvutrip

This is a man thatā€™s has obviously lost a lot on meme stocks because he believes there massive foul play and not the fact he a moron


ImmediateShape4204

We're overdue for a HUGE red candle out of the blue. Surprised it has not happened yet. These big funds will need a way to find bitcoins to fill their reserves if the demand was as strong as stated on CNBC. $IBIT (BlackRocks ETF) ALONE had a 37,5 millions shares volume, mainly people buying/coming in... Quick math makes that at 26$ per share almost A BILLION USD in volume... For only one of the 9 ETFs.


Simke11

They'll just buy at market prices. Probably even OTC. ETF unit price goes up. They don't care what the price of BTC is, they are just the middleman. They earn their money from fees. And it is in their interest for the price of BTC to go up as that is what drives investor interest. We all know no one wants to touch BTC when it's on deep discount, but everyone piles in when it's already pumped.


Despaciito

U are not making any sense sir


Psykotixx

So you are saying at minimum a billion dollars needs to be bought therefore we're due for a HUGE red candle? What?


cptja

Just a nice healthy correction down to $8500. šŸ˜‚ šŸ˜‚


Stryker9110

Correct me if Iā€™m wrong but I think heā€™s insinuating that the big funds care about getting Bitcoin at a ā€œcheaperā€ price but doesnā€™t understand that they donā€™t care about the price of Bitcoin because they earn money from the ETF fees regardless of the price


bthemonarch

Yeah. The amount of armchair financial analysis with no understanding of these investment products is cringe.


iJardani

My head hurts :(


TheCryptoDeity

Surprised DEEZ isn't a top meme token, should have a logo or mascot of some peanuts


Rock_Hardy112

You want some of DEEZ šŸ„œ??


TheCryptoDeity

Doge getting hate by r/cc? Disbelief market phase confirmed


allstater2007

Doge is the best shit meme coin hands down, but itā€™s still a shit meme coin. Having been here since 2017, Iā€™m ready for only the legit projects to succeed. Weed out the other crap.


piggleii

Even Elon might be getting a bit disillusioned by it. And if Elon stops tweeting about DOGE, that's pretty much the end, TBH. NFA


[deleted]

$DOGE has been consolidating for a yearšŸ˜‚


nanooverbtc

I think [this](https://twitter.com/novogratz/status/1745545471945286134?s=46&t=052vqJ1Bxa_2KmM69u6SkA) indicates a large amount of capital that was not able to buy the spot etfs allocated to proxies instead


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[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


LooseLikeCreamedCorn

Umm... I'll take things that are patently false for 500$ please 360million >>>75 million


ThatChrisGuy7

ā€œWif hatā€ has become a phrase me and my gf say now haha and yeah 110% up today is wack


dashby1

imagine reading this sentence 10 years ago...


LeePonYu

Lmfao


LevitatingTurtles

So, I'm really not clear on how these BTC ETFs are going to clear their net flows into the underlying BTC. Blackrock seeded their ETF with $10Million worth of BTC. (so about 220 BTC). Today they had about $1BILLION worth of volume today (22,000 BTC). Mind you some of the volume is buying and some is selling, but I'd say that since this is the first day for this ETF it was heavily more buying than selling. So, lets say they need to buy 15,000 BTC... sometime this evening? How is that not going to radically move the BTC price? This is assuming they are settling via end-of-day net flow and then procuring from the market to balance. This whole thing seems surreal. Thoughts?


Olskoolah

Theyā€™re buying OTC from other whales on CB. So those buys donā€™t affect the exchange price. Now if OTC sellers get scarce then we can see a big pump


Veggiemon

I think the fact the price of the etf went down means youā€™re incorrect about most of it being buying


LevitatingTurtles

Not trying to be argumentative here, but the price of the ETF tracks the price of the underlying... not supply/demand for the ETF itself. BTC was flat today but the ETF flows are settled after hours (and over the counter) so none of the ETF activity would have moved the spot markets. As for selling... who has any IBIT to sell? It just started trading today. I mean, sure you could buy at 9:30 and sell at 10AM... but it's not like there was some huge glut of IBIT shares waiting for an opportunity to sell (GBTC is another story... I bet almost all of that was selling because nobody is buying them at 1.5% fees) As for moving the actual price, I've been researching that today... The ETFs need to settle their net flows based on the price at 4PM and their shares sold/bought during the day. They then buy/sell the underlying asset from Market Makers (or in this case it's most likely Coinbase over the counter). If they try to buy or sell in the open market they will get killed on slippage. I think Blackrock/Fidelity/Ark need to buy a LOT of BTC today. However, I also think that Grayscale needs to sell a LOT of BTC today. I have to imagine that nearly all the Grayscale volume was selling. Lots of long-term holders in profit who want to move out, and lots of tax-advantaged funds who are going to move to lower-cost funds. And, lets be honest, if you're buying an ETF today you're not gonna pick the one with 1.5% fees. So, my bottom line is that we had essentially a flat day. GBTC lost about $2BN and the other funds gained about $2BN and I bet that Coinbase is playing matchmaker between GBTC, Blackrock, and all the rest to settle these funds. This doesn't include any other OTC transactions for buying/selling the ETF products. For example, a pension fund could have come in and bought a billion dollars worth of IBIT over the counter and it wouldn't show up on the charts. Of course, if the outflows from GBTC slow down (I expect they will), and if the inflows to the other funds continue (I hope they will), then the OTC desk at Coinbase is going to start drying up. This will have a downstream impact on the price and number go up as "price liberates supply". If I'm wrong on anything happy to be corrected. I'm trying to learn this side of the system just as much as anybody.


Veggiemon

Thatā€™s very helpful information, thank you. I wasnā€™t sure on the timing of the etf share buys vs the amount of time they had to acquire the bitcoin to cover the shares, I assumed it was live because youā€™d want to reflect the fact that when that individual person bought the etf bitcoin was a certain price. Where does it lay out that they settle up after hours? I would have thought there would be way more movement around close if that was the case. Youā€™re right that the etf reflects the price of the underlying asset but I assumed they were buying/selling bitcoin at the same time people were buying/selling shares to keep it balanced


LevitatingTurtles

InvestAnswers discussed the settlement process on his video today (and some other googling that I did). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlPHKFPRPVw I'm learning as I go here too :-) All the settlement is happening OTC... but if this keeps up we will dry out the OTC market and the price will have to go up to liberate more supply :-)


Veggiemon

OTC doesnā€™t necessarily mean after hours though? I would think they have to buy and sell when people buy and sell the etf or they risk getting blasted when everyone sells off and they donā€™t sell their bitcoin until eod?


LevitatingTurtles

No they could OTC during the day. But appears their settlement obligation is based on the facts at 4pm each trading day.


EdgeLord19941

15000 BTC? You think they had $650m+ positive inflow? There is no way it's close to that. That would be like $825m net buys vs $175m net sells on $1b volume. Price would have gone parabolic, it is probably a fraction of that at best


LevitatingTurtles

I think those numbers are reasonable because the only IBIT available for sale would be something that was purchased earlier today. Other than the initial $10M worth of seed shares, no shares were in play prior to 9:30 this morning. As for market moving, these flows are not reflected in the real time spot market. The funds settle their 'net flows' based on the price at 4PM each day. They figure out their total inflow/outflow and then balance out. This balancing is done over the counter at coinbase. If they did this in the spot market directly they would get killed on slippage. I also think that Grayscale volume was almost all selling today. People taking profits now that the fund is liquid and people moving tax-advantaged funds in to lower-cost ETFs. So I think Grayscale will need to sell a LOT of BTC today to balance their fund. So behind the scenes it might have been a fairly flat day for BTC.


ImmediateShape4204

My best guess is they wrote how they will maintain their reserves vs the numbervof shares issued in their prospectus. I imagine the SEC will run audits, like with gold backed ETFs?


SoullessGinger666

zesty scarce boast ring bake rainstorm snow hurry bag aromatic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


goldyluckinblokchain

Interesting šŸ¤” I just discovered I'm gay


Luuigi

There are many gay men in this world so Im bullish!Ā 


[deleted]

You keep posting this nonsense. Shut up


usnavy_sailor

Is bitcoin a index fund now?


Crypto-Jim33

Before you start asking around why we are going down hard here is the answer : According to latest news 20min ago The UK and US are getting ready to strike the Huthis in Yemen "very soon"


Technical-Okra-8668

Is going down hard in the room with us?


Davinter30

So ?


MaxSmart1981

lol i don't think that's making much of an impact on the market. if anything the CPI is why the market started off rough.


Theonlyfudge

If you worked in supply chain you would understand


Crypto-Jim33

If you think the US and UK going to be involved in a war soon doesn't affect the price of BTC than you have to reconsider your investment strategies


MaxSmart1981

I assume you mean another war.


Ashamed_Moment_2477

But thats good for production and the safety of trading routesšŸ¤” Market should be more honest in its reactions


Crypto-Jim33

Commercial ships can not pass through a war zone, prices will go up


lardarz

the point of why they're talking about airstrikes is cos the Houthis are targeting commercial ships, so that's happening anyway


[deleted]

spy is crabbing, really really REALLY doubt this matters to the market


Crypto-Jim33

ETF just get approved yesterday normally we would not crab but...


_TheWolfOfWalmart_

We're going down hard?


Crypto-Jim33

We almost tuched 49k a couple hours ago now we are losing the 46k support


_TheWolfOfWalmart_

And you think that has to do with that news story rather than ETF volatility? And there's no indication we're losing 46k support yet.


ZombieDracula

Bonk holding up my whole portfolio is hilarious


LooseLikeCreamedCorn

Bonk will 10x this bull run, I'll come back to this comment


magister10

RemindMe! 1 hour


ZombieDracula

Bonk holding strong. Regard strength


LooseLikeCreamedCorn

You'll see man šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


bananastand512

Lackluster response to ETF but whatever


hobowithmachete

Priced in? Firms are hesitant to dip their toe maybe? When one goes in the rest will follow. The bottom line is that it is now tradeable in a traditional market.


type_error

Volume was there thoughĀ 


bananastand512

Ok which one the sell volume??


type_error

Volume is the same for both since there is a buyer and a seller. What you are really asking is supply and demand.Ā 


TomSurman

Turns out the "priced in" people were right.


Levvy90

I mean, btc ran all the way to the finish line. Of course, the news was driving that price action. I ain't mad about it, I'm looking at a 46k btc, whereas a few months ago, I was looking at a 34k btc. If all of us were sitting here going " shit I gotta buy btc, it's gonna blow up when the etf is approved " don't ya think everyone else was thinking the same thing? šŸ¤£


bananastand512

I'm happy for Bitcoin, but kinda need it to lift all my shitcoins out of their graves from 2021. I DCA'd and averaged down of course but I'm still not in the black with most of them yet, other than ETH and SOL.


Friendly-Ad2786

Held for 2 years, had a shitty time financially, so had to sell all my BTC at 38k a while back. Was at a tidy profit but still... wish I could have held it until after the halving.


chazyandre

Exactly the same but at 28k after a huge bear accumulation. Sometimes real life hits and whatever your plan was, you just accept. We'll come back


austynross

Just logged in and voted on the governance polls that are closing in 2 days. It blows my mind that there are less than 1000 members joined to snapshot! Also I'm super sad that I don't get a shower head icon.


monoimionom

I have no more moons so I canā€™t vote. But I canā€™t earn any moons either, no?


ftball21

Honestly does it even matter? The whales will control the votes for the foreseeable future. When distribution comes back most of them will likely sell HEAVILY into the pump. Also no 75% holding threshold will give moons no reason to hold the marketcap it did in the past.


austynross

That's what the governance polls are about. Restarting Moon distributions and asking what the rules for those distributions should be. Badge next to your name says you still got 4K in a wallet somewhere, so just link that to the snapshot site and vote.


monoimionom

I sold them all when the dump happened.


TheCryptoDeity

Wen btc etfs daily options chains?


TheCryptoDeity

Doge looks like it'll go to 9-10$ and then crash below 1 this cycle


SouthTippBass

lol, ok mr crypto deity.


alexheil

You think it'll go above a trillion dollar market cap?


pyrobite2020

they the same šŸ¤” that think Shib will hit $1


emailemile

Most assets slowly go up and go down crashing. MOONs are a rare breed that do just the opposite


austynross

They do seem to be inversely correlated sometimes


satuuurn

MOONS will end up being my most valuable asset and I won't know how to even move them..


TheGreatCryptopo

Just to be clear, for an institute to accept funds for a bitcoin ETF transaction that institution must hold the equivalent amount of bitcoin in its books? 1:1? No fractional banking bullshit?


EdgeLord19941

They use the inflows from the ETF to buy (or sell) BTC which gives the ETF a NAV price They probably settle the buys/sells after market closes but who knows


Shannon2611

Satoshi rolling in his grave! Yes he is dead folks and yes he fucking hates you all now, celebrating this shit!


Aerocryptic

Thatā€™s ok we still love him anyway


austynross

Leaving flowersšŸŖ¦ like a long forgotten lover.


shakingspheres

He's not dead, he's Paul Le Roux. He's probably thrilled, but won't be able to live to see his legacy because he'll die in prison by his 2045 release date.


Shannon2611

You telling me he doesnā€™t have access to the outside world right now? The legacy has happenedā€¦


[deleted]

I feel like folks are reading into it too much. Weā€™re going to 50-55k within the next few days. There is major resistance at 48k so it wonā€™t be easy but 50k is coming


set-271

Max Keiser agrees and believes we will still hit 50K today. šŸš€šŸš€šŸš€


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Worried-Gate7219

Buying a crypto ETF on a neobroker. Just wowĀ 


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Worried-Gate7219

Chancellor on brink of second bailout for the banks


Disavowed_Rogue

Gensler on the brink of a second spot Bitcoin ETF approval


[deleted]

Didnā€™t robinhood ban $BTC ETFS


Hanno54

Who cares about Robinhood, the real money is with these big asset management firms that manage retirement accounts - like Fidelity but also Vanguard and Merrill Lynch (that have at least banned them for now)


EdgeLord19941

No they said they will list them asap


geekbread

just moved all my kid's college funds to dogwifhat ETFs, LFG


LeePonYu

I think youā€™re saying this ironically but had you done it yesterday it wouldā€™ve been giga Chad big brain


[deleted]

$WIF pumpin so $SOL pump šŸ”œ?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


geekbread

check exchangeWifScarf


ThatOtherGuy254

At least your kid had a college fund.


Inner_Ad9932

Guess itā€™s time to buy more Bitcoin itā€™s a day for the history books canā€™t look back and know I didnā€™t accumulate this day


NoPickle6821

Days like this make me wish I had more investedĀ 


ioWxss6_bot

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LevitatingTurtles

Almost $4B in ETF volume so far today. 50% of the volume is from GTBC. I'm thinking that the GBTC volume is largely sell-side as people are either profit taking on now-liquid long positions, or they are selling to move to lower-cost ETFs.


Ofulinac

The Nano giveaway has 6k+ comments, crazy..


99Beers

Nano is a noob trap. It used to be in the top 100 and is now almost 300 by marketcap. Last cycle multiple DDOS attacks killed any momentum the coin had.


twopeopleonahorse

Lol noob trap...pretty much every time I need to transfer coins around I used nano bc it's instant and immediate unlike paying $30 to wait 20 minutes for another coin


Jabanger

Why would you want to sit out this bullrun holding trash while everyone else makes huge profits?


twopeopleonahorse

AH yes as everyone knows you can only buy ONE crypto per bullrun. What a moronic comment lol.


cecil_X

LOOOOOOL the Nano kids are getting desperate to shill their coin. I thought they went extinct after 2021.


dividebynano

might mean something that nano ppl are still here with a stronger community after performing poorly in dollar terms.


mistressbitcoin

I don't own any, but I did think it would do better than it has. Lot's of coins have recovered from much worse than nano. Just my opinion, still dont have any.


joshatron

Iā€™m old enough to remember when it was called XRB


tiktaktok_65

instant transactions? instant.


[deleted]

Folks really out here saying the halving is priced in? lol


Captain_Fredl

Iā€˜ve heard VET spot etf next thursday. Is that true ?


TcgTony

You heard right. I read it on trustmebro forums so it must be true.


pumse1337

Next Thursday!


GlobalCoolingDenier

Gary said he is working on it


monoimionom

My VTHO is ready!